################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 02:50:40 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Australian pines (more of... > I have a few articles from the Aussie press. Except for some photo's, it's > mostly crowing and back patting(cigar smoking?) for the discoverers. > Becky > P.S. We have some Aussies on the line, why am I replying As long as were apparently adopting this subject as an okay off-topic topic, I might as well add my two cents. I think this discovery is fantastic...a group of pines, virtually unchanged for 200 million years, growing in some remote microclimate on the planet. Geez, only 39 of them (23 adult, 16 juvenile), that must be about the rarest plant on the planet. I understand that at least one seedling has germinated in the laboratory, and tissue cultures are being tried also. Just amazing...a fossil that has likely been rescued from the brink of extinction. When we are causing so many things to become extinct, rescuing a few, especially ones like this, seems a really positive kind of thing. Don ################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 02:59:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: re: darlingtonia On Sat, 31 Dec 1994, peter cole wrote: (Re: Darlingtonia) > It seems to cope better than my Purpurea which I found > surprising. Of course, we don't get many nights that bad here in Wales - > average winter nights -5C -> 0C I'd guess, and very few sub-zero days. I find this surprising also. Perhaps the purpurea haven't been terribly hardy because you don't get the deep snow cover that they receive in their native range? Snow is an amazing insulator. I once killed some purpurea by trying to winter them in a garage which was attached to our house in Ottawa Canada (part of their natural range). I figured the warmth from the house would make for a relatively mild winter. It did when dealing strictly with air temperatures, but in the garage they of course had no snow cover for insulation and froze so solidly that they were dead as doornails in the spring. Don ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Sun, 01 Jan 95 11:20 EST Subject: Australian pines > As long as were apparently adopting this subject as an okay off-topic > topic, I might as well add my two cents. I think this discovery is > fantastic...a group of pines, virtually unchanged for 200 million years, > growing in some remote microclimate on the planet. Geez, only 39 of them > (23 adult, 16 juvenile), that must be about the rarest plant on the > planet. I understand that at least one seedling has germinated in the > laboratory, and tissue cultures are being tried also. Just amazing...a > fossil that has likely been rescued from the brink of extinction. When > we are causing so many things to become extinct, rescuing a few, > especially ones like this, seems a really positive kind of thing. This discovery seems a lttle like deja vu. Were not two other gymnosperm "living fossils", the Ginkgo and the Metasequoia, also discovered from a small stand of survivors? I vaguely remember another botanical wonder discovery a few years back... of a plant where the gynoecium formed a whorl around the androecium (as opposed to the opposite, which is normal for angiosperms)? Was this debunked? Michael ################### From: A.Wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 31 Dec 1994 16:00:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Australian pines (more off-topic) > I have heard a few tantalizing news snippets > about a stand of primitive gymnosperms > discovered very recently in Australia. > Unfortunately, local news sources have assumed > this topic lacks sufficient news-worthiness to > get any further coverage beyond the above > mention. In Germany you read a lot about this in the recent weeks even in daily newspapers! If anyone has access to seeds for in vitro.... ....I _might_ know somebody who _might_ be interested........ ;-) A happy new year 1995 and Good Growing! All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 31 Dec 1994 22:08:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Tassie Tiger > I think that the Tassie Tiger = Tassie Wolf (my Aust. Concise Oxford Dict. > lists them both as being Thylacinus cynocephalus). We tend to just call > them Thylacines. Microsoft's "Dangerous Creatures" CD has an item on Thylacines (including picture of last one living in captivity). It doesn't feature any carnivorous plants, but Encarta has a few! -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 20:56:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: Kinabalu Park, the final 1.5 days Kinabalu Park, The Final 1.5 Days After a hearty breakfast, I met my guide in front of the Old Administration building on Thursday at 9 a.m. Today we were going to visit a small village outside of Kinabalu Park, whose Malaysian name translates to "White Sand". It took us about 45 minutes to drive there, at the slow jalopy speed, and again the drive was filled with beautiful mountain scenery. We passed many mountain-side farms where Chinese immigrants were growing various vegetables (broccoli, cabbage, hot chili peppers). One area had several structures that looked like greenhouses, except glass panels were replaced by black cloth. This was a mushroom farm, and the structures provided the perfect growing conditions--dark, warm, and moist. Many of these farms are owned by Chinese but are tended by Indonesian immigrant workers. We arrived in the village of "White Sand", and drove by several groves of cacao, betel nut, and durian trees. My guide saw an elderly gentleman walking along the road and asked him where we might find "periuk kera", the monkey's cup plant (Nepenthes). The gentleman said that he could take us to some, so I let him have my seat in the jalopy and I climbed into back of the flatbed. We drove along the road for another kilometer and parked at the gate of someone's house. The gentleman let us onto the property, past the house and into some fields--we were following a cattle trail. Immediately I could see why this village was called "White Sand", because that's exactly what we were walking on. In places where the few centimeters of topsoil were washed away, there was nothing but clean, fine white sand. On either side of the cattle trail, growing in the topsoil, were several plants of N. gracilis. These appeared like those we had seen the day before, only the plants were larger and had clambored farther through the tall grass and saplings. Pitchers measured about 10 cm high at the most, and were a light green with plenty of red mottling. We continued onward, over a wobbly cable suspension bridge that crossed a creek, and into a wide grassy plain. Here there were more N. gracilis plants, about one every 10 meters on either side of the sandy trail. I found this natural growth of N. gracilis to be very attractive. The plants wound their way upward through the tall grass, securing themselves by coiling tendrils around twigs and branches, and these tendrils produced pitchers which hung from the twigs in clumps of two or three together. There were also a few young plants growing as small rosettes in places where the grass was somewhat sparse. These were the only Nepenthes I saw that day. With the time we had left (most of the afternoon), my guide offered to take me where we might find some Rafflesia. Although I'm mostly a Nepenthes freak, the possibility of encountering the rare Rafflesia was quite tempting, so I agreed. For those who don't know about Rafflesia, I'll mention the few facts I learned about it. Rafflesia is the largest flower in the world and has no stems or leaves. It has five fleshy petals, can grow to about 1 m in diameter, is usually orange-red in color, and has a stench of carrion. It is a parasite, and grows on the roots of a certain wild shrub. The seeds need to be trampled into the earth by some large animal (e.g. a deer) near the roots of its host in order to germinate. On the rare occasion that Rafflesia is found, botanists have a field day. If the flower blooms on private property, the lucky owners make some money by charging admission to those who wish to see it--and most people are willing to pay the price because it is indeed a rare find. We drove to another location outside of the park, near a village whose name I have forgotten already. After parking the jalopy we hiked through some vegetable farms, started along a trail through a forest, then diverted off the trail into that thick forest. This was bush-whacking at its best. There was no trail, the growth was dense, and I didn't have a machete (which is standard equipment around there--every outdoorsman carries one). Fortunately my guide had all the "standard equipment", and he hacked a meager trail for me to follow. I took a moment to look around; every direction seemed exactly the same. There wasn't much light filtering through the treetops, I couldn't see the sun and there were no other reference markers. It must be easy for the inexperienced hiker to get lost in those woods! It wasn't raining, but everything was dripping wet. After a 20 minute hike my guide found a patch of Rafflesia. Unfortunately we were too late to catch one flower at its peak--it had already turned black but still retained its shape. Other flowers were almost completely rotted away. Very close by were some unopened Rafflesia buds, the largest of which (15 cm dia.) was about two weeks away from opening. It was shaped like an oblate spheroid, and the thin black membrane which wrapped it had separated along the top to reveal the enclosed light-orange bud. Another half hour of walking brought us out of that forest and back toward the farms we had passed earlier. We boarded the jalopy and headed back toward the Park, where we arrived at around 4 p.m. The next day we would take a trip to Poring Hot Springs, another research station in the Park, and look for Nepenthes there. This time the Park head botanist would accompany us, and we would have the use of one of the Park's 4- wheel-drive vehicles. On Friday morning I met my guide, the Park head botanist, and some other workers and we drove off. Before going to Poring Hot Springs, we had to drop off the other workers at one of the other field stations where they would go searching for some N. rajah plants. They were going to bring them back for use in an exhibit. Although the Park vehicle was more comfortable and refined than my guide's jalopy, the nasty construction road made for a very tough ride. I regretted having had breakfast, and I was holding tightly onto the vehicle's roll bar along the roof in an attempt to stabilize myself against the jostling. We made it to the field station, dropped off the workers, headed back down that terrible road, and proceeded to Poring Hot Springs. Upon our arrival, the head botanist showed us around. There is a building under construction which will house some brand new tissue culture laboratories. Nearby are some "open greenhouses" where orchids are kept. There were many, many plants collected from various locations in the Park, some of which were in bloom. We departed the orchid collection in time to see four deer stroll by the trail on their way to higher ground. They seemed abnormally tame--perhaps the Park employees feed them. There were no Nepenthes at the research station, but after leaving Poring Hot Springs we found some along the roadside. There were several N. gracilis plants similar to those I had seen in previous days. Nearby was a another rather large Nepenthes vine with pitchers that looked just like N. mirabilis var. echinostoma, a photo of which I had seen in Nature Malaysiana. Each pitcher was about 12 cm high and 2.5 cm in diameter, uniformly green, and the peristome was rather wide and formed a shelf all the way around the mouth of the pitcher. It was the peristome which helped me identify the var. echinostoma. We had to pick up the workers who were dropped off before, and I asked if I might be spared the ride on that construction road. Amusingly, everyone else had the same idea. We all got out at a market place, and the driver went on to pick up the other workers. For a half hour we mulled about, and I was getting quite a few stares from children and some adolescents. I guess they don't see many tall Caucasians around there, and I tried to be on my best behavior so that the locals wouldn't get any bad impressions. In other words, when they stared at me I didn't flip them the finger or stick out my tongue. :) Finally our vehicle came back to pick us up. In the back of the truck were two very large N. rajah plants in a bamboo basket, and one Paphiopedilum orchid which is endemic to Mt. Kinabalu. I noticed that the triumphant workers' trousers were filthy from the thighs down, and this made me feel pretty good. Why? Because I had to bust my fanny to see N. rajah in the wild, and I felt better knowing that even the experienced Park employees had to go through the same misery to find their plants. Okay, call me Petty (instead of Perry). One of the N. rajahs had a male inflorescence, and both had sizable pitchers--one pitcher was 30 cm from tendril attachment to lid attachment, and the lid was almost as long again. These plants were brought inside the new Administration building, to be potted up for the exhibit. With that, I returned to my room and packed my belongings, settled accounts at the Administration Office, and boarded one of the tour buses bound for Kota Kinabalu (the tour buses visit the Park every day). The bus stopped at a farmers' market along the way where wild honey, fruits, and some locally made souvenirs were being sold. After 10 minutes we were off again. It started to rain and continued until we arrived in Kota Kinabalu. In the first installment I made reference to the Hyatt Hotel being a welcome haven after my stay at the Park, and so it was! It was very nice to be in a dry, climate-controlled room with unlimited hot showers and no insects crawling around the floor. Upon some reflection, I realized that this trip fulfilled all of my expectations. I had seen and photographed Nepenthes: rajah, villosa, kinabaluensis, fusca, edwardsiana, tentaculata, lowii, burbidgeae, gracilis, mirabilis var. echinostoma, reinwardtiana, and one species which Kurata's book lists as "unidentified". Of these, only the edwardsiana and the "unidentified" species were not seen in their natural habitat (they were in the Mountain Garden). Also, I had a chance to see the rare Rafflesia flower (though it was past its peak), and I saw a lot of beautiful scenery. The Park staff were cheerful, friendly, very helpful and generous. If I am lucky I'll have another chance to go in my lifetime, hopefully while I'm still able to endure the hikes. ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 18:04:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP video show Wouldn't everyone like to ride in Kon Tiki? I would. I supplied some of the radio equipment to Hyerdal for his second expedition, out of my Hongkong office. This was the one that sunk, including my beaut antenna tuner they had promised to return. Oh, well.... Cheers, Phil ---------------------- ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:21:32 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: N. rajah > > Hello CP fans, > > I was talking to fellow botanist friend interested in Nepenthes and N. > rajah and N. dentata came up in conversation. I imagine these are not > common in cultivation, but does anyone know if they are available and if so > from whom? > > Thanks and Happy New Year, > Greg Heck > > Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know he can supply them again in summer. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Fri, 30 Dec 94 20:16:40 -0700 Subject: I.c.p.s. It appears that both Steve Baker and I have responded to Philip F. Wight's inquiries about his I.C.P.S. subscription privately not thinking that there might be a need to conduct any of the nuts and bolts business openly and wasting peoples time/bandwidth with things that should be privet, but I.C.P.S. has developed a bad reputation for putting people on ignore who have made inquiries in the past. I'm the newly elected secretary treasurer and accepted the nomination because I have some unresolved "issues" that are the result of my having been left on ignore for too long. For those who noticed it was the main thrust of my campaign. >Date: Fri, 30 Dec 1994 07:17:21 -0800 >From: clastic@metronet.com (Clastic) > >I am not certain...for I last sent in MY re-subscription >fees 5 years ago after being a member for some years...never >received another copy...and the editors never responded to >my mail. Anyone out there want to give me some contacts >that might involve living people? (smile) > >Regards, Clair Clair most of us are here alive and well glad to hear from you I can't make any promises about a 5 year old claim at this time but you can be sure I do take seriously any and all request's for information and or service. I know for a fact that the rest of us feel the same way. Unfortunately I have not yet received the records required to do the research on yours or any other requests yet. (I don't really take office for a few days.) I was into the US post office today trying to get a P.O. Box to conduct I.C.P.S. business through and they told me there will not be any available until Jan. 15 1995. I expect to set one up then and will make it public on or about that date for any one wishing to bypass Fullerton and contact me directly. You can of course also find us here. Pres. Rick Walker walker@opus.hpl.hp.com V.P. Christoph Belanger eheick@acs.bu.edu Sec/Tres Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com wl-Ksnive-nl@society.com ksnive@prostar.com Pub. Ed. Steve Baker STEVEB4706@AOL.COM Seed Bnk. Thomas Johnson CARNIPLA@AOL.COM I hope we can restore your faith, and THE public's confidence in the I.C.P.S. We work for the love of our society, and the love of these plants. Sincerely, Kevin Snively Secretary I.C.P.S. elect. ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Sat, 31 Dec 94 00:12:59 -0700 Subject: _darlingtonia_ >> Also I'd like to second the request for an estimation of how far north >> Darlingtonia might be winter hardy? I live in zone 6 and would like to >> try it if there is a reasonable chance for survival. >> James. > >Well...mine got down to 15 F and survived just fine, but you have to >remember that this is an isolated occurrence and doesn't last for long. >Seattle has had some really cold snaps - down to 5 or 6, but I chickened >out and brought all my stuff indoors. Kevin, what about you? Kevin >Sniveley lives up north of here where things get considerably colder for >such a small distance. I do not wish to try to set my self up as an authority of any sort on the subject of _Darlingtonia_ but will sight a few references and let you all draw your own conclusions. #1 Sunset New Western Garden Book June 1979 edition Page 268. Zones 4-7 and 14-17 Zone four is listed as the coldest with low temps. ranging between 19 and -7 deg F for the 20 years prior to printing. #2 Carnivorous plants of the Unites States & Canada By Donald E Schnell Page 52. Sea Level to 2800 m. (Well above the winter snow line) #3 Bulletin of the American Rock Garden Society Vol. 50 No. 3 Article by Fredric W. Chase, Jr. Page 210. Moderate winter-hardiness Not recommended for the authors area. ( Central Michigan ) My own experience has been that seed germinates well after winter in my back yard but seedlings die during the same season. Established adult plants do well year after year with the only winter losses due to the grubs of the Strawberry root weevil _Otiorhynchus ovatus_ which eat crowns and roots. Friends are growing _Darlingtonia_ out doors in Vancouver B.C. with no extra protection. >Andrew Marshall here in Seattle did such a setup. He planted a 20 gallon >long aquarium with sphagnum (live) and used an air pump attached to a >long bent tube to keep the water moving slowly. It worked fine. Andrew's article appeared in C.P.N. Vol. 21 No. 3 Page 78 and to my knowledge he is still happy with it. He is also the only one in the area I know who go's to this much trouble to grow this plant. I prefer drip irrigation operating once every three days, and a splash from the hose when I've got it out any way. I also prefer WHITE plastic pots as I believe they absorb less heat than the black ones. Remember that when growing plants out side a light mulch can extend the range well past what would otherwise be expected. Most people still ignore me when I brag about pushing a _Cephalotus_ to 17 deg F last winter or look at me like I'm some kind of nutcase. The the only protection it got was a light peace of land scape fabric and while it lost 7/8 of its original size it is still going. krs ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:53:31 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show I second that, but for now would do with a tule boat. ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:26:54 -0700 Subject: TAXACOM >This is a posting from the BEN (Botanical Electronic News) > originally on TAXACOM How do I sign onto these? Barry ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:37:21 -0700 Subject: Pings and things >>right with my alpine/boreal Pings because I'm growing >>_grandiflora_ types, _vulgaris_, and _leptoceras_ all the same >Unless I am mistaken, these pings all require a cold dormancy >period. Are the winters in Arizona suitably cold to supply the >dormancy? Or do they receive an artificial winter? I guess I The bottom shelf of my refrigerator is suitably cold. They hide down there in plastic bags during their dormant period. When they break dormancy I stick them in the greenhouse. They respond to this artificial system well, except for the fact that they slowly drift out of synch with actual seasons. So right now my Canadian clone of _P.vulgaris_ and my _P.leptoceras are flowering, and _P.alpina is also growing, while other _P.vulgaris_ clones, and _P.grandiflora_ ssp., and _P.vallisneriifolia_ are dormant. Getting off the CP thread, I see. :) >"In Search of the Mysterious World of Carnivorous Plants" OK, this was funny! So now it's my turn... Recently I was watching MST 3K (a TV show) which presented the old horror flick _The Amazing Colossal Man_. At the beginning of the movie the main character gets burnt horribly. In the operating room scene, I'm SURE you can see the doctors packing the burn victim with moist Sphagnum. I'M NOT JOKING! REALLY! I recall reading it was used as surgical dressing in earlier times. Any medicos in this group know about the use of Sphagnum in wound care? It's good for cuttings too. B ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 95 14:32 EST Subject: TAXACOM I've tried several times to subscribe to TAXACOM, but have failed. My last attempt sent me an error message indicating they were having technical difficulties on their end. It's probably time for me to try again. Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 02 Jan 95 14:38 EST Subject: Sphagnum and health > Recently I was watching MST 3K (a TV show) which presented the old horror I wouldn't place too much confidence in information gleaned from that show. :-) > flick _The Amazing Colossal Man_. At the beginning of the movie the main > character gets burnt horribly. In the operating room scene, I'm SURE you > can see the doctors packing the burn victim with moist Sphagnum. I'M NOT > JOKING! REALLY! I recall reading it was used as surgical dressing in earlier > times. Any medicos in this group know about the use of Sphagnum in wound > care? Hey, last I heard about Sphagnum from this group was the recommendation to wear gloves and a filter mask when dealing with the stuff! What gives!? Michael ################### From: R Britt Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:09:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Sphagnum and health Yes, it is very important to not directly come in contact with live sphagnum. The major health hazard is uncontrolled growth of all tissues, resulting eventually in attacks by USAF figher/bombers. On Mon, 2 Jan 1995, Michael.Chamberland wrote: > > Recently I was watching MST 3K (a TV show) which presented the old horror > > I wouldn't place too much confidence in information gleaned from that show. > :-) > > > flick _The Amazing Colossal Man_. At the beginning of the movie the main > > character gets burnt horribly. In the operating room scene, I'm SURE you > > can see the doctors packing the burn victim with moist Sphagnum. I'M NOT > > JOKING! REALLY! I recall reading it was used as surgical dressing in earlier > > times. Any medicos in this group know about the use of Sphagnum in wound > > care? > > Hey, last I heard about Sphagnum from this group was the recommendation to > wear gloves and a filter mask when dealing with the stuff! What gives!? > > Michael ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sun, 1 Jan 1995 22:18:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Chiltern Seeds 1995 I agree with Bob that Chiltern's catalogue is one of the best. They list some 4000-5000 species, so obviously their CP are only a tiny proportion. Most of their packets are between 1 and 2 UK pounds - perhaps more than they would be from a specialist, but I have always had good success with them, including Drosera cistiflora, which seems to be considered desirable. Another list I have is: Doug and Vivi Rowland 200 Spring Road Kempston Bedford MK42 8ND England Their list has more cacti and succulents than anything else, but also includes other interesting stuff, and around 110 types of CP, mainly Drosera, but including most genera e.g. 5 species of Nepenthes, 13 of Utricularia, plus Cephalotus and Genlisea. Their packets are most 0.75 UK pounds. No credit cards as far as I can tell, but personal US dollar cheques are acceptable. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 14:07:07 -0700 Subject: Thanks and congratulations >>Kinabalu Park, The Final 1.5 Days A great epic, Perry, thanks for taking the time to key all that in. That was great. I'm looking forward to going myself! A great connection you made with the botanist at the park! >Pres. Rick Walker walker@opus.hpl.hp.com >V.P. Christoph Belanger eheick@acs.bu.edu >Sec/Tres Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com >Pub. Ed. Steve Baker STEVEB4706@AOL.COM >Seed Bnk. Thomas Johnson CARNIPLA@AOL.COM Hey, did I miss the official announcement? In any event, great congratulations to Rick, Christoph, and Kevin for their election victories! Rick, now that you are in power, is it true you're going to take all the plants that are being grown poorly and put them in huge greenhouse orphanages? :) Barry ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 08:25:43 +0930 Subject: Re: pings Barry, >The bottom shelf of my refrigerator is suitably cold. They hide >down there in plastic bags during their dormant period. When >they break dormancy I stick them in the greenhouse. They >respond to this artificial system well, except for the fact that >they slowly drift out of synch with actual seasons. What do they hide in? Damp sphagnum? Also, how do you determine how long to leave them in the fridge for? Is this data just from a text? Terry ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 15:50:00 -0500 Subject: Winter CP food and Intro Hi to all members of the CP list, I have been reading the list for a while now and have learned much in a very short time. My name is Greg Long and I live in New York City. I have tried growing venus fly traps on and off for almost my whole life (I am now 32). About three years ago I decided to get serious about it and bought some small healthy looking VFT's and the New York Botonical Garden. I have been very diligent in the care of these plants and have been rewarded by healthy plants that love to eat the flies in my apartment. My children have also been interested and have learned a lot about CP's from our small collection. Recently I received a Nepenthes Mirabilis cutting from Tom in Florida and the cutting has started growing VERY well (see below). I am a biologist and toxicologist by training (B.S. in Biology, Ph.D. in toxicology) and conduct biological research pertaining to heavy metal toxicology in human and animal bone cells. I have no formal training specifically in CP biology or taxonomy, but I am learning. Thank you all for sharing your experience and knowledge on this mailing list. As I gain experience and knowledge I hope to continue to expand my collection of CP's. I would also like to say that although I have limited experience as a CP'er I grow many types of houseplants and my apartment windows look sort of like a jungle. SK>I searched outside, in the cold, for bugs that I could feed my SK>Drosera and Nepenthes. I couln't find one bug anywhere. It has been so warm in New York City this year that I still go out and grab flies, etc. outside. What a winter! SK>My N. Mirabillis cutting from Tom in Florida has survived the SK>transition to the greenhouse and seems to be doing well as SK>it's unfurling it's first true leaf. Pretty neat to watch SK>a miracle like that! Yes, my cutting from Tom is growing very well also. I have two true leafs (one open) and two pitchers (the largest is currently 3 cm tall, open, and growing like crazy). This is my first Nepenthes and it is fascinating to watch the pitcher develop and grow. --- . POW 1.1 0043 . Powerline Offline reader for Windows - New Windows OLR ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 21:04:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Thanks and congratulations Barry wrote:, > >>Kinabalu Park, The Final 1.5 Days > > A great epic, Perry, thanks for taking the time to key all that in. That was > great. I'm looking forward to going myself! A great connection you made with > the botanist at the park! I'm glad that you enjoyed it, Barry. I typed it out chronologically as it spooled out of my memory, and didn't take the time to refine the article or even do much spell checking. It was a little rough, and I'm happy that enough content got through to make for pleasant reading. Apparently there was enough information, because no one has asked me any questions yet. Wow, a self-sufficient article. That's a first for me :) Regards, Perry ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:00:09 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: N. rajah According to Michael Hasemann: > >Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know >he can supply them again in summer. > oooh ooooh - have you a contact address? I would love my own N. Rajah! Since they are tissue culture I should not have any problems importing them :-) -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Aha! Pronoun problems. It's not `shoot you, shoot you', it's `shoot me, shoot me'. So, go ahead, shoot ME, shoot ME ... You're Despicable" -- Daffy Duck ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 09:28:32 GMT+1 Subject: Re: N. rajah Hello all, I have N. rajah available for DM 60,- + p&p per plant. Anyone interested in my current price list may contact me directly at a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de The new list for 1995 will be ready in 1-2 weeks. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:17:43 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: white form of H. nutans Dear Christoph, I think, you should be carefully, oftenly, it depend on growing-conditions, if you get all-green Heliamphora; e.g. at Kukenan- and Roraima-Tepui, I have seen some all-green individuals of H. nutans, growing in 'weak' conditions, I mean at places with few light and much humidity. The same plant will change to read, if you put it into full sun and a substrate like peat. H. heterodoxa is usually also in nature more green as the other ones, mostly you find just a red rim and a red neck. Anyway, it would be nice, if they would be realy anthocyan-free forms. Until now, I know just about an all-green 'H. ionasii' from Ilu-Tepui. Thanks for information. All the best Joe N. (sorry, I meant red, not read colour :-}) (The plants will not read anything) ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:25:06 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: CP video show Is there a book of Peter d'Amato? About CP's???? Nice??? On Sat, 31 Dec 1994 R5M@aol.com wrote: > Hey Steve, > Great show, lets see if you can do it without cost overruns. > Becky > P.S. Have you seen the cover of Peter d'Amato's little book? > ################### From: Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 15:25:44 +0100 Subject: RE: Winter CP food (fruit flies) I use wingless fruit flies (Drosophilla) to feed Pinguicula's and it works excellent. I freeze them before putting them on the plants. I don't think they can get away alive but it's easier that way and maybe it's cruel to put live flies om the plants. There is a risk that flying forms while appear and if they get loose they may turn into a pest (which they did in a student place where I was living). I think it's possible to obtain food to the fruitflies and perhaps also wing- or flightless fruitflies from a company could Carolina Biological Supply Company somewhere in the U.S. Magnus Thor`n Plantecology, Department of Ecology, Lund University Ekologihuset, S-223 62 Lund, Sweden Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se "The future so bright I have to wear shades" ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 07:37:24 -0800 Subject: Re: CP video show Hi Becky: No, I haven't seen the cover of Peter d'Amato's book. Can you describe it? ---Steve ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:26:53 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show Yes, and it's very good for beginners and the cover is a hoot. Send him $2 and ask him for his growth guide. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:34:56 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show It is a photo by Frank Nemec called "Sarracenia 'Abandon Hope'" something we might be able to develop if we ever come up with the colchesine. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 11:43:13 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: Winter CP food (fruit... I have the address somewhere. They want $17-18 for us poor peons without institutional affiliation. So, perhaps some of you could finegle 2 and send them to us less fortunate... They also may be a source of colchecine. They also sell recombinant DNA "kits" Manana Becky ################### From: dkpurks%unicorn%telenet@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:53:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Winter CP food All of my active cp (Drosera, Pings, Utrics, Nepenthes) are in a large terrarium. The Drosera and Pings at least are quite happy to be munching on an infestation of fungus gnats. The D.capensis, D.binata, and D.adelae seem to be particularly covered with dead bodies. I'm also misting twice a week with a solution of Miracid and SuperThrive. It must be a good combination because all the mature Drosera are in bloom or producing buds, the Nepenthes are producing pitchers (except for N. x Dominni "intermedia" which is growing new leaves but has not produced a single pitcher since I got it in June), and the Utrics are blooming too. As a side note about the fertilizer spray, D.trinervia seems to be particularly sensitive to it - within a few hours of being sprayed all of the leaves fold up or over as if they had captured a bug and stay that way for 24 - 48 hours. It seems to be happy with it though because it's producing leaves rapidly and looks very healthy. Unfortunately, it's one of the few that is not blooming. (In case you're wondering, the plants are all blooming because they think it's spring / summer - the terrarium is heated by 4 x 40 watt bulbs which are on 16 hours a day (mostly at night)...daytime (their night) temps are about 45 and nighttime (their day) temps are 65-75) - this is in an otherwise unheated garage). Dave Northern Virgina where it hasn't snowed yet but it was 18F last night (Brrrrrrr) ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 12:30 EST Subject: RE: winter cp food (cruelty to flies) > I use wingless fruit flies (Drosophilla) to feed > Pinguicula's and it works excellent. I freeze them > before putting them on the plants. I don't think > they can get away alive but it's easier that way > and maybe it's cruel to put live flies om the > plants. Cruelty is the better part of the reason we grow these plants! Come on! :-) The vegetable horrors LIKE to feel the death struggle of tiny insects. It feels good on the trigger hairs and sessile glands. Most stimulating! Michael ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 10:13:05 -0800 Subject: shift in wife's CP attitude Hi all: Just wanted to drop you an amusing line. When I finished building my greenhouse, I put my handful of CPs inside. I began finding bugs to feed to the Nepenthes and the Drosera. Now, after a few weeks, my wife no longer throws household bugs away. When she finds bugs and smashes them, or finds recently croaked bugs on the windowsills, she immediately lets me know so I can collect them and feed them to the CPs. It saves her from having to patrol and clean for "ooky" bugs in the house. Now she's finding bugs in the bathroom, and leaving the dead critters on the sink shelf on a piece of TP so I can dispose of them. My mother-in-law recently visited and was surprised to see a note covered with dead bugs on a kitchen counter. It read "Do not throw away!" My wife did not have time to write down the reason why, which left her mom a little mystified until I came home. ---Steve ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:21:45 -0700 Subject: Horn Tooting and Pings Hey, I just got the new CPN and see that one of my photos made the cover! (*) \ | (*) / Regarding wintering Ping hibernacula.... >>The bottom shelf of my refrigerator is suitably cold. They hide >>down there in plastic bags during their dormant period. When >>they break dormancy I stick them in the greenhouse. They >What do they hide in? Damp sphagnum? >Also, how do you determine how long to leave them in the fridge >for? Is this data just from a text? I grow these _Pings_ in a sand/peat mix sitting in water several cm beneath the soil surface. Periodic checks in the greenhouse reveal when a _Ping_ is ready to hibernate---no new leaves are forming, and by inspecting the rosette center the plant is seen to have developed a dense hibernaculum. When the last leaves begin to yellow I drain the pot of excess water for a few hours and then pop the entire pot into a plastic bag and store it in the refrigerator. About a month later all the leaves have rotted away, leaving the hibernaculum bare. I usually disinter the hibernaculum and separate any gemmae. Then I replace the top few cm of soil with a pure silica sand mix and see that the hibernaculum and gemmae are all about half buried. I think this help reduce mould problems. Then the pot goes back into the bag in the refrigerator. Every month or so I open the bag for an air change and a quick peek. Sooner or later the _Ping_ hibernaculum begins to loosen---the small leaves begin to separate and spread like an overly mature artichoke flower. The plant is ready for a new growing cycle in the greenhouse. I don't use fungicides or sulphur dust or anything like that when I store my plants in the refrigerator. I also use this technique with my hibernaculum forming _Drosera_, although I'm not sure they're as picky. I seem to get just as fine results keeping them in the greenhouse year-round. Barry ################### From: Alexander Salomon Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 16:21:30 EST Subject: CP source for beginners Well, I have recently been going through this pile of garden catalogs that in- evitably begin to accrue this time of the year if one has ever ordered from Burpee or whichever other company it was who sold my name 10 million times. Anyway, I was looking through one from Gurney's Seed and Nursery Company. On page 29, they offer a few CPs-not cheap but available for those without a local source. They offer VFTs 1 at $4.09, 2-3 @ $3.85/plant and 4 or more for $3.45. They also offer a "carnivorous Kit"-which consists of "a trumpet plant , A VFt and a pitcher plant. From the appearance, they mean, S.flava, S.purp, and Dionea. This kit is offered at 1 @ $8.75, 2-3 @ $8.15 and 4 or more for $7.35. This is not an endorsement of the firm-I have never ordered from them and do not know the source of their plants. If anyone is Inteerested, their address is Gurney's Seed and Nursery Co. 110 Capital Street Yankton, South Dakota 57079 phone number-(605)665-1671 If anyone does decide to offer, I would inquire first as to the source of plant s and would discourage purchase of any field collected plants -alex ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 17:37:42 Subject: CP Grow-Box Hi gang, Over Christmas, I visited a friend who is growing peppers and tomatoes in a 2'x4'x2' box that he built himself. He has between 8 - 10 pepper plants with only one tomato plant growing in this box. Why am I writing this? Since he built it himself, I think I can build one myself too, and I know it would work for CPs. The box cost my friend around $200 to build including 8 lights inside producing over 25,000 lumens. I was amazed. He can't find the guy's address who designed the grow box, but as soon as he finds it (shortly) I can send it along to you if you like. The plans cost $20.00 and they are drawn up by an electrical engineering firm. That's all I know about it right now, but I was amazed at how healthy his pepper plants were, and thought some of you might be interested; this is by no means an endorsement of any kind - since you build this box yourself. Email me if you're interested off-line: jh2@scires.com Happy CP growing!! Jim Houston -Atlanta- ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:28:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Grow-Box Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for $16? I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! Christoph ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 19:31:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: white form of H. nutans Joachim, I would like to discuss the case of the white Nutans with you off line. My email address is eheick@acs.bu.edu, respond in German if you like. Christoph ################### From: "Brian Obrien" Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 18:59:51 CST Subject: Re: TAXACOM I'd like subscription instructions to TAXACOM as well. Perhaps this could be posted to the list. Brian On Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:42:03 -0800, Michael.Chamberland <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> wrote: >I've tried several times to subscribe to TAXACOM, but have failed. >My last attempt sent me an error message indicating they were having >technical difficulties on their end. It's probably time for me to >try again. > >Michael > > -- bobrien@gac.edu Brian A. O'Brien, Department of Chemistry, Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, Minnesota 56082 U.S.A. tel. (507)933-7310 fax (507)933-7041 ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 21:49:36 -0600 (CST) Subject: To subscribe to TAXACOM, send a file containing the following single line to listserv@ucbcmsa.berkeley.edu: SUBSCRIBE TAXACOM yourname@internet.address You should get back a message from the listserver quite promptly. TAXACOM has moved around a bit: the Harvard address that shows up on a BOING search is invalid. Kay Klier klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: Adolf Ceska Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:04:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: TAXACOM How to subscribe to TAXACOM: Send the following message subscribe taxacom Your-first-name Your-last-name to listserv@cmsa.berkeley.edu I would add the command review taxacom just to see who is on the mailing list BTW, if you want to receive BEN (Botanical Electronic News) send me a message "put me on BEN" to aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Happy New Year, Adolf aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca ################### From: "HERBERT D. KING" <75672.1174@compuserve.com> Date: 03 Jan 95 23:50:44 EST Subject: excuse me... the best incense 20 sticks per pack $1. minimum purchase 5 packs. rose, opium, black love, nag champa, vanilla, cinnamon, patchouli, sandalwood, blue nile, egyptian musk, coconut, rain. free incense holder with 12 packs. add $3. for shipping. CA residents add 8.25% sales tax. send check or money order to cynthia wiley, p.o. box 91098, los angeles, CA 90009-1098 int'l orders add $6. for shipping ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:18:53 PST Subject: Re: CP video show > > Yes, and it's very good for beginners and the cover is a hoot. > Send him $2 and ask him for his growth guide. > Did I miss something here (I hate it when that happens)? To whom should I send $2?? Anyway, while my CPs grow in a terrarium, I would like to grow something in the kitchen to eat flying insects. Any suggestions on a suitable species????? -BJ ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:14:44 PST Subject: Re: CP source for beginners [Note from Alex re: Gurney's plants deleted...] I don't know their source(s), but I DO know that they won't ship CP's to California, among other places... -BJ ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 22:20:53 PST Subject: Re: excuse me... Herbert, Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? Can we make him stop? -BJ ################### From: JR Parish Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:13:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: excuse me... On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, HERBERT D. KING wrote: > the best incense 20 sticks per pack $1. minimum purchase 5 packs. > rose, opium, black love, nag champa, vanilla, cinnamon, patchouli, > sandalwood, blue nile, egyptian musk, coconut, rain. free incense > holder with 12 packs. add $3. for shipping. CA residents add 8.25% > sales tax. send check or money order to cynthia wiley, p.o. box 91098, > los angeles, CA 90009-1098 int'l orders add $6. for shipping > > > Why don't you get the hint and stop this silly shit. This has nothing to do with CP's. ################### From: JR Parish Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:15:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: excuse me... On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Herbert, > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > Can we make him stop? > -BJ > May I suggest that everyone who is feed up with this incense thing copy and forward the message to postmaster@compuserve.com ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 22:28:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Thanks and congratulations Barry Meyers-Rice writes: > Rick, now that you are in power, is it true you're going to take all > the plants that are being grown poorly and put them in huge greenhouse > orphanages ? My first act in office will be to organize an international hunger strike on behalf of all the languishing supermarket VFT's. Our demands will include little plastic shields to prevent little kids from teasing the plants, plus regular feeding with live cicadas. We will also insist that several N. Carolina supermarkets be plowed under and converted back into bogs. Our second campaign will involve placing anti-bulldozer land mines at several strategic Sarracenia habitats. :-) :-). On the serious side, thanks for the congratulations! I'm counting on all the ICPS members for guidance and support in trying to shape the future of ICPS in 1995. Please write me with your suggestions. I'm trying to consolidate the ideas that I presented in my campaign statement with feedback from various letters that I've received. Hopefully this will result in some action and an article in one of the next newsletters. -- Rick ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 16:55:01 +0930 Subject: Re Grow boxes Cristoph, >Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for >$16? I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! Care to expand on your grow box i.e what is it made of, how big etc? ################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 01:40:43 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: excuse me... On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Herbert, > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > Can we make him stop? Well, I've now bought $30,000 of incense...do you think this is just encouraging him? By the way, does anyone have any suggested cures for this annoying hacking cough I seem to have developed quite recently :-) Don ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:56:59 GMT+1 Subject: Re: TAXACOM Maybe I missed a message but... ...what is TAXACOM??? Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:56:59 GMT+1 Subject: Cuba & Venezuela (help?) X-Mts: smtp +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Ah well, itchy feet time again. I'm off to Cuba and Venezuela in February/March. Hope to cover all Cuba. Intend to prioritise the Andes rather than Lost World when in Venezuela. Can anyone help with information? I know all the Pinguicula species and I've my own copy of Casper's Monograph. If anyone has specific localities for any Pings (localities NOT listed by Casper) or any details on other plants of interest, I'd be very grateful for the information. I'm also interested in any people who might prove helpful in either Cuba or Venzuela, especially plant nurseries in or near Caracas (especially those catering for Bromeliads) (I'm copying the Brom conference on my request too). Thanks for any feedback. I will of course post a visit summary if I succeed in going, finding anything, coming back! The latter is the weak point - I don't want to come back!!! Regards Paul ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 14:26:20 MEZ Subject: Casper monograph Does anybody know about an English translation of the Casper's Monographie der gattung Pinguicula? I've heard it exists anywhere... Ivo PS:Jan, may I ask you where in the Czechoslovakia were you born? It is very interesting! Thanks. ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 07:31:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: >Maybe I missed a message but... >...what is TAXACOM??? >Andreas TAXACOM is a listserv for taxonomists... mostly news and announcements, and also a fair number of questions on herbarium policies, where to find proper wet specimen storage jars, and any of the 80,000 other things we taxonomists often have rattling around in our heads... ;-) I first heard of it several years ago in an issue of Taxon (the IAPT journal). Kay Klier klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 14:03:55 +0000 Subject: Have you info on Cuba/Venezuela? +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Jan You've probably already seen I'm going to Cuba/Venezuela. I hope you don't mind if I ask some info of you, in case you can help. Have you an English translation of the Cuban Ping entries in Casper? I'm only after the descriptions of where the plants grow. Do you happen to know what state the Pings will be in in February/March - growing/, resting?, or what? Have you any good location details for P. elongata? Any Ping info not already in Casper woiuld be great. Any other CP info also of interest for Cuba or Venezuela. Many thanks. Regards Paul ################### From: Adolf Ceska Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 06:12:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Casper monograph On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF wrote: > Does anybody know about an English translation of the Casper's > Monographie der gattung Pinguicula? I've heard it exists anywhere... Jost Casper may know. Here is his address: Dr. Jost S. Casper Institut fur Spezielle Botanik Friedrich-Schiller-Universitat Philosophenweg 16 O-6900 Jena Deutschland - Germany Best regards, Adolf Ceska (I was born in Jindrichuv Hradec, if you are curious.) ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 05:36:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: excuse me... I've posted direct msgs to him threatening to lodge complaints with CompuServe if it continues. I don't understand the motivation of jerks like this - are supposed to burn the incense for our cps, or feed it to them? :-) Cheers, Phil ---------------------- On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Herbert, > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > Can we make him stop? > -BJ > ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 14:27:12 +0000 Subject: Re: new pricelist 1995 +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Andreas I sent a reply to your "new" price list last year but got no response. i guess my mail system failed, a normal occurrance! Sorry if you already received my request but, if not, I'll repeat it (if I can remember it) here. Heliamphora 1 of -heterodoxa 30,- 1 of -ionasii (true one!!!) 200,- 1 of -tatei var. tatei (!!!) 190,- If I'm still in time to order these, please tell me what to doi next. And excuse my ignorance but what are the differences between H. nutans (Form from Tramen) and any other H. nutans? Regards Paul ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:48:00 -0500 Subject: Re: RE: winter cp food (cruel... The address for Carolina Biological Supply is 2700 York Road Butlington, N.C. 27215 Write them a note on your institutional stationary. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:57:05 -0500 Subject: Re: CP source for beginners I've had trouble with Gurney's. See they live in the tundra, and by the time they ship stuff to you, planting season is over. Then again, I'm not real happy buying from a comercial firm when we have availability on line... ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:58:45 -0500 Subject: Re: excuse me... can we unsubscribe this fellow ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:09:25 -0500 Subject: Re: CP video show California Carnivoires 7020 Trenton-Healdsberg Rd. Forestville CA 95436 USA Send $2 ask for the Growth Guide. I found these people very helpful and patient. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:40:19 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Have you info on Cuba/Venezuela? Dear Paul, I know, that Jan has good maps and some more detailed information about all the Ping's of Cuba, he will be in again next week, so you can ask him. A botanist of E-Germany has visited the location of P. lignicola, but I have forgot her name; I want to look, if I will find it. In the Andes of Venezuela, Drosera cendeensis would be very interesting; as I know, the only known location of it is 'near Cende'; at the maps, it doesn't look to difficult to reach it. The original material of it 'disappeared'. Maybe I can also find locations of P. elongata in Venezuela, I want to have a look. Do you know the book of Vareschi: Tropenoekologie? It is in German language, I don't know, if there exist an English translation, but you can learn a lot about the vegetation of Venezuela (he lived about 40 years there.) Have a good time there Bye Joe N. On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Paul Temple wrote: > +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple > | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital > | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms > | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 > +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p > Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com > Loc/MS: UCG > > Jan > > You've probably already seen I'm going to Cuba/Venezuela. I hope you > don't mind if I ask some info of you, in case you can help. > > Have you an English translation of the Cuban Ping entries in Casper? > I'm only after the descriptions of where the plants grow. > > Do you happen to know what state the Pings will be in in February/March > - growing/, resting?, or what? > > Have you any good location details for P. elongata? > > Any Ping info not already in Casper woiuld be great. Any other CP info > also of interest for Cuba or Venezuela. > > Many thanks. > > Regards > > Paul > > ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 00:59:10 -0700 Subject: Not cp. I've just recived my favorit spring seed catalog. It has nothing to do with Cp. but I still want to tell you about it. Oregon Exotics Rare Fruit Nursery 1065 Messinger Rd. Grants Pass Or. 97527 U.S.A. Ph. 503-846-7578 They speicalise in Fruits, Barrys, Veg. ect... from South America, and espicely Asia. They offer HARDY CITRUS with edible fruit! Amoung 100's other things you will not see in any other catalog this year if ever. A must have for botinasts with a culinary intrest. krs ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 18:25:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Hello +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Kei I only just saw your introduction mail. Just wanted to ask if you were a friend of Isao Takei? Regards Paul ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 18:22:03 +0000 Subject: Re: You want pictures?? +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Sorry this is so late but, having just returned from Xmas hols, I couldn't resist rersponding to the initial hornets nest of Marcel Lecoufle's book and it's "*best*" status. I don't necessarily disagree with the comments on pictures. However, CPN did review this book. It was a challenging (I'm being polite) review, full of phlegm, venom even. The summary of the review was to ignore the text of Marcel's book!!! The author of the review (I forget who but it was one of CPN's editor's) also spared no blushes for the technical editor who was blamed for allowing Marcel's errors to be published uncorrected. I am that technical editor. With the traditions of the USA firmly in mind, CPN and the editor in question were damned lucky I didn't sue them for big money (despite disclaimers - "the views expressed aren't necessarily those of CPN" - no good when the views are written by the editor!). The review was totally correct in criticising Marcel's knowledge and text and in criticising the English translation from original French. However, I wrote (and still have a copy of) a three page criticism of the text and translation, which I sent to the publishers. I offered assistance in correcting the errors if given direct access to Marcel. Unfortunately the offer was refused, the book was published with errors intact and my name printed as technical editor without my permission. The lessons - for CPN: be more careful about who you accuse of what or risk getting sued! for me: avoid editing anything by Marcel for you all: buy Marcel's books for the great pictures but be very careful about what text you believe! It feels so much better to get that off my chest. I do so hate being libelled! Regards Paul ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:30:35 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Have you info on Cuba/Venezuela? > I know, that Jan has good maps and some more detailed information about > all the Ping's of Cuba, he will be in again next week, so you can ask him. > A botanist of E-Germany has visited the location of P. lignicola, but I > have forgot her name; I think it was H. Dietrich (but I might be completely wrong ;-) It's just a name which I discovered in a corner of my brain...) Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:35:11 GMT+1 Subject: Re: new pricelist 1995 > And excuse my ignorance but what are the differences between H. nutans > (Form from Tramen) and any other H. nutans? The pitchers are more slender and less "trumpet-shaped" than typical H. nutans. They are also less ventricose... It's a little difficult for me to find the right words but they just look different ;-) Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: R Britt Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 11:19:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: excuse me... Actually the incense post appeared all over the Usenet. I saw it a mac games board, for example. So no direct link to CP's. -rdb On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Philip F. Wight wrote: > I've posted direct msgs to him threatening to lodge complaints with > CompuServe if it continues. I don't understand the motivation of jerks > like this - are supposed to burn the incense for our cps, or feed it to > them? :-) > > Cheers, > Phil > ---------------------- > > > On Tue, 3 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > > > Herbert, > > Why do you keep trying to sell incense on this list? > > Can we make him stop? > > -BJ > > ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 12:01:00 -0500 Subject: CP Grow-Box ->Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for $16? ->I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! ->Christoph What exactly is a grow box and how can I build one for $16? --- . POW 1.1 0043 . Powerline Offline reader for Windows - New Windows OLR ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 08:13:58 +0930 Subject: RE Taxacom > TAXACOM is a listserv for taxonomists... mostly news and >announcements, Is it restricted to only plant taxonomy or do the other kingdoms get a go as well? ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 15:44:08 -0800 Subject: Re: CP Grow-Box A grow box is probably like the one they have in the CP greenhouse at UC Berkeley Botanical Gardens. You have a tray on the bottom that collects water so it doesn't rot your wooden benches. Then, it's basically an upside down aquarium. No glass on the bottom. four glass sides, and a glass top. I think making a grow box out of clear plastic from a plastic shop might be easier to build, cut, and work with. You can take the clear plastic parts and weld them together with xylene. And you can make the top plate removable for plant maintenance. Lexan would be a good material, and it would have better insulating qualities than glass...though a little more expensive. Either glass or plastic would work, glass being heavier and subject to breakage. Cutting clear lexan to exact sizes costs about $1 per cut at a plastic shop. The plastic does not need to be really thick. Probably 1/8" thick material would work. Hey, I think this solves my dilemma about finding water catching trays that fit my benches! ---Steve ################### From: Adam Wexler Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 16:00:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: RE Taxacom I tried the address given earlier and I kept getting messages back that said address unknown! Do I just have the wrong address: listserv@u.cbcmsa.berkley.edu ? I really want to subscribe. -ADW ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 20:09:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Grow-Box > > A grow box is probably like the one they have in the > CP greenhouse at UC Berkeley Botanical Gardens. > You have a tray on the bottom that collects water so > it doesn't rot your wooden benches. Then, it's basically etc, etc... this is pretty much what I meant, only, mine is not that complicated, or potentially pretty as the one above might be. Mine is 60x60x100cm and made of 1x2inch pieces of lumber. To make it more sturdy I screwed it together with wood screws. As floor I used a piece of plywood that was lying around, lined it with plastic, and covered the enire frame with 2 mill plastic that can be bought in a hardware store. No joke, the entire thing cost $16, although I have to say that the lights were not included in that, nore the looks of it. At some point when I am rich I was planning on replacing it with something more esthetically pleasing. For now though, my lowlanders loveit! One of the CPN issues had a detailed describtion of one, I would have to look up which issue though. Christoph ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 19:21:48 -0600 (CST) Subject: Subj: RE Taxacom >> TAXACOM is a listserv for taxonomists... mostly news and >>announcements, >Is it restricted to only plant taxonomy or do the other kingdoms >get a go as well? What???!!! People want to study other-than-plants???? Yes, there are various types of animal taxonomists (or perhaps taxonomists of various types of animals) subscribed, though I've yet to see anyone that I recognize as a taxonomist of prokaryotes responding to the list. As you might expect, there's quite a bit of discussion of software for keying, data retrieval, etc., and a thread on GIS (geographic information systems) a while back (if I'm recalling the right list!) The address is listserv@ucbcmsa.berkeley.edu I may have mistyped it previously, as I'm currently dealing with a cold that I'd like to give back to its previous owner. Kay Klier Biology Dept Univ. Northern Iowa klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: peter cole Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 01:49:03 GMT Subject: re: incense 20 sticks per pack. > the best incense 20 sticks per pack $1. minimum purchase 5 packs. Presumably these would be for incensivorous plants :) PETER COLE - SWANSEA, WALES ################### From: ATLAS1@JEFLIN.TJU.EDU Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 22:42:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: (re)Introduction Hi all. It's Doug Atlas, back on the group (I had been off since last August). For those who don't know me, here's a brief intro: I have been growing cp for about 6 years. I have had good success with the more "common" species and hybrids, but not much experience with the more exotic ones. My favorite group of cp these days is Nepenthes. Four months ago, I went back to school and (unfortunately) had to give away a lot of my cp; I onlyl kept my Nepenthes, plus a few other "fun" species of CP. But virtually all of my north american cp had to go. :( I would be interested in hearing from any CP growers in the Philadelphia, PA area (my new home away from home). I may have extra Nepenthes for trade/free. The CP I still have are doing well. The N Mixta 'superba' is producing pitchers that are over 20 cm long. Wow. My N eymai finally started to pitcher; it is producing cute little upper pitchers (the cutting I received must have been taken from upper growth). I got good germination on various nepenthes seed from the cpn seedbank. Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been looking for one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've seen are from overseas and very pricey. Happy new year to all, and good growing! Doug ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:08:09 GMT+1 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been > looking for one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've > seen are from overseas and very pricey. I have N. ampullaria in vitro and should have the first ones for trade or sale in summer or autumn. The clones I have are from Irian Jaya. I am looking for N. petiolata and other species but would also trade for hybrids with "interesting" parentage. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:54:49 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Hey Doug, nice to see another Nepenthes-freak. If Andreas don't have, maybe I will get some until late summer or autumn, depending on growing situation and success. If you know about Nepenthes or Heli.-seed, I am always interested in it. Joe N. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:02:23 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: N. sp. Sumatra Hello, does anybody know something about the N. spec. Sumatra, which was availagle at the CPN-seedbank? Maybe somebody knows where it does come from or who has introduced it. Are there still seed available of it for trade? By the way, does anybody know, if N. spathulata has been crossed in the last year or will be crossed? I have heard, that there are several growers in the USA with male and female plants. Bye Joe N. ################### From: "Claus Rodemer" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:23:26 CET-1CST Subject: Re: Hello > Kei > > I only just saw your introduction mail. > > Just wanted to ask if you were a friend of Isao Takei? > > Regards > > Paul Who ?? What ?? Where ?? Sorry.... Claus ################### From: Heiko Rischer Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 12:51:02 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > > Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been > looking for one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've > seen are from overseas and very pricey. > > I have also N. ampullaria (in vitro/cuttings) . Mine are not pricey :-] but also for trade (hi Andreas and Joe ;-) ). Heiko ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:33:16 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > > > Anyone out there have an extra n ampullaria for trade? I have been looking for > > one of these for a couple of years, but the only ones I've seen are from > > overseas and very pricey. > > > I have also N. ampullaria (in vitro/cuttings) . > Mine are not pricey :-] but also for trade (hi Andreas and Joe ;-) ). > > Heiko > Is this going to end up in an internet-shop ? I am feeling a little irritated about these increasing more or less commercial (yes, I have seen your smileys.) offers. (not to talk about this as a financial source for "Victorian time" plant hunting.) (and also not to talk about all that tissue culture stuff originating from dubious ("University supported" ?!) sources. Right, this is none of my business.) ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 07:46:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: Pings I bought three unidentified pings from Peter Pauls Nurseries last summer, two of which are still alive. They have begun doing very strange things, although my limited knowledge of botanical terminology prevents me from describing it in detail. Basically they seem to be forming very small, reddish orbs at the center of their rosettes. Anyone have any idea what this could be? Could they be forming their winter resting buds? I'm also curious to know what species they are, if anyone with more knowledge of pings out there knows what the Peter Pauls plants are. ################### From: HERMANN.WISTUBA@KFB.x400.basf-ag.de Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 14:55:04 +0100 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction An: 5289 X400HOST Alle Benutzer im DISSOS Von: WISTUBA LUFAROHB Dr. Wistuba Datum: 5. Januar 1995 Betreff: Re: (re)Introduction Michael, see your mail from 03.01.95. Regards, Hermann ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 15:26:33 GMT+1 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Dear Michael, you wrote: > Is this going to end up in an internet-shop ? I am feeling a little > irritated about these increasing more or less commercial (yes, > I have seen your smileys.) offers. > > (not to talk about this as a financial source for "Victorian time" > plant hunting.) a few days ago you wrote: >>Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know >>he can supply them again in summer. >>..Michael A sudden change of mind??? (;-)) > (and also not to talk about all that tissue culture stuff originating > from dubious If tissue culture is dubious then I'm proud of being able to do this dubious things. Otherwise I do not right understand what a large scale propagation by "high tech" has to do with Victorian-style plant hunting??? Who the hell hunts his in vitro stuff??? I usually go to the basement working all night at my laminar flow which I had to buy from my money (no support!). Usually the plants sit in their flasks and are quite easy to remove without any need to hunt them. I'm looking foreward receiving an explanation! > ("University supported" ?!) sources. Right, this is none > of my business.) None of us is University supported! Please try to find out more exactly what people you offend really do before flaming them in the public! > > ..Michael > If somebody searches for a plant I am able to supply either by _trade_ or sale, shall I ask a friend: "Hey could you write a message, telling that I have these things for trade (or aso sale)" instead of doing this myself. I regard this as childish. As a consequence you'll have to ban all informations on CP sources from this list. I think I am right that one aspect reading such lists for many people is getting infos where to _trade_ _or_ _buy_ CP's (in our case) or other stuff. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 10:11:07 Subject: Re Grow boxes Hello again gang, I must say that first of all, the "grow box" plans are *not* mine, I'm not even positive if it's called a "grow box" either. I'm not making a dime here, honest. Also, with all of the incense nonsense, I'm a bit gun-shy about trying to "sell" anything. I'm just passing along some information because I thought you might be interested. I just saw this box, and I was *so* impressed with it, that I had to tell someone who might be interested. I realize you can build a grow box, or a light box for a lot less money, but I've seen those types of contraptions, and I wasn't impressed. This grow box really impressed me, that's why I had to mention it to you. >Why buy plans for $20 if you can build a grow box yourself for >$16? I grow my lowland Nepenthes in one and they love it! I hear you on that. The major difference with this box I saw was that it gave somewhere between 8 and 10 plants about 1 square foot of intense light. The pots the plants were growing in were not big at all, and contained a good nursery mix of soil as a growing medium. That's all. The pots could be pulled out, and replaced easily at any time, as there were "cutouts" which the pots seated into. With that idea, one could easily spin the plants, but really, there was no need to do that, the peppers were surrounded with intense light from all sides. >Care to expand on your grow box i.e. what is it made of, how big >etc.? Again, this is *not* my grow box; the one I saw was made of simple plywood, 4' high, 4' long, and 2' deep. It was painted white inside, and stained and finished on the outside, and it looked nice. It had two doors which opened, and gave access to the box from the front. When the doors were closed, you couldn't see the plants. Depending on what you decide to construct the doors from (e.g. plastics) you will be able to see the plants inside. The box wasn't very big/obtrusive. I suppose, you could use plastics on all of the outside walls, but again, the one I saw was strictly plywood, and not very heavy, I would venture to say that it weighed around 30 - 40 pounds. My friend told me he had around $200, maybe $250 with the plans, etc. tied up in the project. The amount of bang for your buck by doing it yourself was what impressed me the most. If you can handle a jigsaw, screw driver, and a paint brush, you can build this thing, and it will last a lifetime. Essentially, once you have the plans, you can substitute the building materials, _the interior lights_, etc., will be a fixed cost though, I think around $175.00. From what I can determine, there are smaller plan models available, and obviously, those grow boxes would cost less to build. I haven't seen the plans yet, but they are all $20. Anyone can email me off-line about further info, as soon as I get it, I'll be happy to pass it along to you. Just send me your email address. Happy Growing, Jim Houston jh2@scires.com ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 11:12:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Drosera flower spikes Now that I have a variety of Drosera blooming at the same time, I've notice something strange...most of the plants produce spikes which grow vertically from the center of the rosette. D.aliciae is doing something totally different. As the spike grows, it unrolls horizontally along the top most layer of leaves until it reaches the outer edge of the rosette and then it straightens up and grows vertically until it reaches maximum height (about 4 inches for mine). I thought this was accidental when the first spike was produced but I have a second one which has done the exact same thing. Anyone else see this behavior or is my plant doing something unusual because of some environmental condition? Dave ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 11:34:24 Subject: Re: You want pictures?? I have to start this message off by simply saying "wow". >Sorry this is so late but, having just returned from Xmas hols, I >couldn't resist rersponding to the initial hornets nest of Marcel >Lecoufle's book and it's "*best*" status. Paul, the book is a good book. I believe I was the one who started the whole discourse (your Subj. line is one I sent) because at that time I was new to the world of CPs. My wife works at the library and was bringing home book after book on the subject. The book by Marcel Lecoufle was my favorite one out of all of the books she brought home - yes, because of the pictures. BUT....you do deserve some credit as well! Please don't feel badly about some criticism. As far as I am concerned, the book in conjunction with the text is *very* good for people who are new to the hobby. I am a novice CP grower, like most people. The majority of people on this list are experts, and most knowledgeable. My only question about the textual content was that Drosera Spatulata was spelled D. Spathulata. No big deal, but I wanted to be correct when I spoke of this plant among professional CP growers, that's all. I find the book most informative otherwise. >I am that technical editor. And I am impressed to find that out too. I have the book in my hands as I type, and sure enough, you *are* the Tech. Ed. My first brush with CP greatness!! >The review was totally correct in criticising Marcel's knowledge and >text and in criticising the English translation from original French. >However, I wrote (and still have a copy of) a three page criticism of >the text and translation, which I sent to the publishers. I offered >assistance in correcting the errors if given direct access to Marcel. >Unfortunately the offer was refused, the book was published with >errors intact and my name printed as technical editor without my >permission. I seriously doubt that people will hold the technical editor responsible for a book. Readers never understand the politics that goes on behind the scenes like that, because we are not privy to that discourse. In closing Paul, I like the book, I bought the book, and I use it as a reference book. The text is not as bad as some people seem to think. Again, I get most of my information from that book first, then I refer to other books or to this list for specifics. I love this list, the people on this list are genuine CP lovers and are very sincere and helpful. Is there any way you can post the 3 page letter to the publisher which should squelch any of the textual inconsistencies? Most of us have the book in question (I think). Jim Houston jh2@scires.com ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 08:07:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: re taxacom Yes! Adam Wexeler- I suscribed successfully several days ago to "listserv@cmsa.berkeley.edu" -Pat Warrington ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 95 12:24 EST Subject: Re Grow boxes I suppose that only the top and front panels of a grow box need be made of transparent material, if it is to be used indoors under lights. If the sides and back are constructed from opaque white-colored material the plants should benefit from light reflected off these surfaces back into the box. In fact, the very photon-frugal might build doors, painted white on the inside, to close over the front panel when the box is not being viewed. (silver mylar has also been advocated for its reflective property). Michael ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 19:57:15 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > > An: 5289 X400HOST Alle Benutzer im DISSOS > > Von: WISTUBA LUFAROHB Dr. Wistuba > > Datum: 5. Januar 1995 > Betreff: Re: (re)Introduction > > Michael, see your mail from 03.01.95. Regards, Hermann what's wrong with that one. I *do not* benefit from any sales Mr. West- phal makes neither from any Allan Lowrie or anybody else makes due to references/source information given in this list. This is in contrast to people (no offense intended!) who try to earn a golden nose by opening "internet shops". I know there is no clear border and I regret to have given my comment on this (particularly be- cause there is no real problem in this list, yet). Please be refered to the "netiquette". Best wishes, ..Michael > > > > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:34:02 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Dear Andreas, I am sorry and I hope you accept my excuses if you feel personally of- fended by my last posting. This was not my intent. > Dear Michael, > > you wrote: > > > Is this going to end up in an internet-shop ? I am feeling a little > > irritated about these increasing more or less commercial (yes, > > I have seen your smileys.) offers. > > > > (not to talk about this as a financial source for "Victorian time" > > plant hunting.) > > a few days ago you wrote: > > >>Uwe Wsetphal (from Germany) grows them in virto. As far as I know > >>he can supply them again in summer. > > >>..Michael > > A sudden change of mind??? (;-)) In contrast to you I do not benefit nor I make any sales because of this list. It is abuse of the net for commercial purposes I do not agree with. Please be refered to the netiquette. Meanwhile I also regret to have started this discussion as there is no real problem here (yet). > > > (and also not to talk about all that tissue culture stuff originating > > from dubious > > If tissue culture is dubious then I'm proud of being able to do this > dubious things. Otherwise I do not right understand what a large > scale propagation by "high tech" has to do with Victorian-style plant > hunting??? Who the hell hunts his in vitro stuff??? I usually go to > the basement working all night at my laminar flow which I had to buy > from my money (no support!). Usually the plants sit in their flasks > and are quite easy to remove without any need to hunt them. > I'm looking foreward receiving an explanation! So if it is so easy to propagate them why do not you sell them hobbyists prices. I mean if I see astronomical high prices for whatsoever species I get the idea the price covers more than just the costs of propogation, but also costs for travelling and reasonable profit margins. This appears to be commercial business based on demand and offer. Please be refered to the netiquette. > > > ("University supported" ?!) sources. Right, this is none > > of my business.) > > None of us is University supported! Note the question mark. I am sorry if you got me wrong on this. Thanks, for clarification. > Please try to find out more exactly what people you offend really do > before flaming them in the public! My deepest excuses again. Again, I regret to have started this discussion and I got my lessons from it. > > > > > ..Michael > > > > If somebody searches for a plant I am able to supply either by > _trade_ or sale, shall I ask a friend: > "Hey could you write a message, telling that I have these things for > trade (or aso sale)" instead of doing this myself. > I regard this as childish. Maybe, this is a borderline case. > As a consequence you'll have to ban all informations on CP sources > from this list. I think I am right that one aspect reading such lists > for many people is getting infos where to _trade_ _or_ _buy_ CP's (in > our case) or other stuff. Read the netiquette! > > > All the best > > > Andreas Yepp, best wishes and greetings ..Michael > Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany > Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de > Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Kyle Williams Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:37:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: Tissue Culture of Drosera I was wondering if some of you out there could give me some advice on tissue culture of Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata specifically)? I am an undergraduate student taking a class on tissue culture and my professor has given us a project where we choose a plant (such as a house plant) to reproduce through this method. One piece of information I need right away is what culturing media is appropriate so that I can get it ready ASAP (my teacher gave us two days to find this out!). I have not been able to find any sources on tissue culturing Drosera, so any information you have or you could direct me to would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Kyle Williams Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, Ca. "Life's a journey not a destination, and I just can't tell just what tomorrow brings" ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 20:48:19 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Re Grow boxes > > I suppose that only the top and front panels of a grow box need be > made of transparent material, if it is to be used indoors under lights. > If the sides and back are constructed from opaque white-colored material > the plants should benefit from light reflected off these surfaces back > into the box. In fact, the very photon-frugal might build doors, painted > white on the inside, to close over the front panel when the box is not being > viewed. (silver mylar has also been advocated for its reflective property). Right, if you cover the front panel (panes) with something insulating such as styrofoam you may reduce condense water. Ergo: When you show the plants to your friends they (the plants) present themselves behind clean/dry glass panes. > ..Michael > Michael > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 12:35:02 -0800 Subject: Tissue Culture of Drosera Dear Kyle, > I was wondering if some of you out there could give me some advice on > tissue culture of Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata specifically)? > I am an undergraduate student taking a class on tissue culture and my > professor has given us a project where we choose a plant (such as a > house plant) to reproduce through this method. One piece of > information I need right away is what culturing media is appropriate > so that I can get it ready ASAP (my teacher gave us two days to find > this out!). I have not been able to find any sources on tissue > culturing Drosera, so any information you have or you could direct me > to would be greatly appreciated. It has been some time since we've discussed TC formulas. I'm also just a beginner, but here is a list summarizing what I know (with great appreciation to Jan Schlauer, Andreas Wistuba, and Tom Hillson for their input!) If anyone else can add to this list, please do! --------------------------------------------------------- Summary of CP Tissue Culture Formulas and References by Family and Genus: Sarraceniaceae {DUMORT.} Darlingtonia {TORR.} Heliamphora {BENTH.} Sarracenia {L.} - 2/3 Knudsen C(*) with BAP, ABA for mult and root - 1/6 MS, is second choice Byblidaceae {DOMIN} Byblis {SALISB.} - Sigmas modified MS (1/2 x macro-, 1 x micro-)(M0153) + BAP, IBA sometimes vitrification trouble with B.gigantea - Bunn 1985. Australian Horticulture. 83(5):103 Cephalotaceae {DUMORT.} Cephalotus {LABILL.} - Sigmas modified MS (1/2 x macro-, 1 x micro-)(M0153)+BAP, IBA - In vitro propagation of Cephalotus follicularis (Australian Pitcher Plant). HortScience 14, 521-513 Droseraceae {R.A.SALISB.} Aldrovanda {L.} Dionaea {SOLAND. ex ELLIS} - Hutchinson 1984. Scienta Horticulturae 22:189-194. - Beebe 1980. Bot. Gaz.141(4):396-400. - Parliman et al. 1982. J.Amer.Soc.Hort.Sci. 107(2):305-310. - Parliman et al. 1982. J.Amer.Soc.Hort.Sci. 107(2):310-316. Drosera {L.} - 2/3 Knudsen C (*) - Janssens 1986. Med.Fac.Landbouww.Rijksuniv.Gent. 51(1):61-66. - Anthony, J. (1992). In vitro propagation of Drosera spp. HortScience 27, 850. Drosophyllum {(L.) LINK} Nepenthaceae {DUMORT.} Nepenthes {L.} - 2/3 Knudsen C(*)with 0.2-2mg/L BAP for mult. Rooting horm. not neces. - Anderson's may be used also (N. ephippiata likes it). - Lowland only: (DeKanel) .5 MS, 20g/L Sucrose, 6g/L agar. w/ 0.1-0.2 BAP multiplying w/ 2mg/L IBA rooting Dioncophyllaceae {(ENGL. & GILG) AIRY-SHAW} Dioncophyllum {BAILL.} Habropetalum {AIRY SHAW} Triphyophyllum {AIRY SHAW} Lentibulariaceae {L.RICH.} - Bill Carroll's media (ICPN v11 n4 12/82 pp. 93-96) - 1:5 MS Genlisea {ST.HIL.} - 1/5 MS for G.pygmaea Pinguicula {L.} - Adams et al. 1979. HortScience 14(6):701-702. Utricularia {L.} -Pringsheim & Pringsheim esp. for aquatics Amer.J.Bot.49:898-901 (1962) -Carrols's ONLY for large-lvd. sp: U.alpina, longifolia, calycifida *= You may add 37,26mg/l Na2EDTA and 27,8 mg/l FeSO4 x 7H2O. I always add the MS-vitamins to the Knudsen C medium. General References: 1. Achieving the sterile state for home tissue culture, Part I, Brian Johnson, CPS Journal 14, 18-19. 2. Achieving the sterile state for home tissue culture, Part II, Brian Johnson, CPS Journal 16, 9-10. 3. Tissue culture of carnivorous plants at Oxford. Steve Woodward, et al. CPS Journal 15, 16-19. 4. Tissue culture of carnivorous plants. Gareth Davies et al. CPS Journal 12, 17-20. 5. In Vitro propagation of the Butterwort Pinguicula moranensis, Richard Adams et al. HortScience 14(6), 701-702. 6. Tisserat et al. (1992). Microwave sterilization of plant tissue culture media. HortScience 27, 358-361. 7. Plants from Test Tubes - an introduction to micropropagation, Lydiane Kyte, 1987 Timber Press (Oregon), ISBN 0-88192-040-1 -- Rick Walker ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 05 Jan 95 20:10:28 EST Subject: Re: In vitro Nepenthes Happy New Year! I saw the recent discussion on tissue culture sources, etc. of Nepenthes and thought I'd share a few thoughts on the subject. I would urge anyone soliciting plant material from any source, especially tissue culture sources, to request data from their respective sources. It is my understanding that many of the cultures of "rare" species may have originated from wild collected seed. I realize that not all in vitro cultures originated this way, some may have been started with seed produced in cultivation (I have started some with seed produced in the greenhouse, as have others), but has anyone actually flowered N. rajah male and female in cultivation??? Unless the collectors were present during the pollination of the particular pods they collected or know absolutely that there were not other possible parent species within pollinating range (I confess to not knowing what such a range is) the only way to discern the true identity would be to grow the plants out to an identifiable size. Please understand, I am NOT attempting to discredit anyone or their motives, as I think they are generally good and I applaud your efforts, but I think that some of the folks who may not be so familiar with the process need to know all the facts. I am not accusing anyone of distributing plants that are not correclty identified, but I would be very cautious of breaking open your piggy bank for Nepenthes species A, that might turn out to be Nepenthes species A x species B. I have tried to retrieve data for tissue cultured plants received and was told it was unavailable. Don't just request the data, DEMAND it! There has been a big influx of seeds and plants collected in SE asia in recent times and it seems like folks might be retracing the steps of others because there is no circulation of data. This is not in the best interest of the plants, nor of the collectors. I don't know of a botanical "freedom of information act," but it seems like we're past due for some coordination and cooperation in our efforts to perserve these plants. Again, this is not directed at anyone in particular, but a plea for growers to know your source and maintain the data along with the plant. In my opinion, the seller should be required to supply the following data with their plants: Collection location or cultivation source collection dates who collected it storage if applicable, how long in vitro how long out of vitro (important for your success in growing a new arrival) If wild collected, possible male parent Ask your tissue culture source if they have grown plants on to near maturity or at least to a size that indicates a true identity. As for the high prices, that's pretty much a matter up to the seller and buyer. Having been in the tissue culture business for a number of years (totally out of it now), I can say that large scale labs can produce an established plant from tissue culture for $0.25 to $0.75 on average (that's for foliage plants like spathiphyllum, anthurium, syngonium, ferns, etc.), BUT that is when they gear up to do thousands of each variety. (At Hungry Plants, we produced a couple hundred thousand Dionaea in 1992 and 1993 at prices in that range, but with the exception of a few, most Nepenthes do not grow in vitro as quickly as Dionaea, making this an unfair comparison.) The cost per plant naturally drops as production is increased and becomes more economical. The current high market prices for tissue cultured Nepenthes are needed partly to fund direct operating expenses, but I imagine that a good part goes to cover past and future seed hunts. I better end with some more positive news, that being that tissue cultured Nepenthes (and other genera, carnivores and non-carnivores alike) seem to grow more vigorously possibly because they are more disease and stress resistant than seed grown plants. This might be the factor breaks down some of the barriers to their cultivation in our collections and that's a great thing to look forward to! Good Growing and Happy Hunting! Ron Gagliardo ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 18:24:50 GMT Subject: The Private Life of Plants List followers in the UK might like to know ( if you don't already, ) that BBC1 are screening 'The Secret Life of Plants' starting Wednesday. David Attenborough is presenting it, and it will be showing ( among other things, ) a lot of time lapse photography. I don't know how much carnivory will be represented, but evidently some - there is a close-up of a Drosera leaf ( looks like Rotundifolia to me, ) in the feature on page 5 of this week's TV Times. The inevitable accompanying book is graced with a rather fetching shot of a frog on a Nepenthes pitcher ( tall and green, but I'm not au fait enough with Neps to hazard a guess. ) Enjoy, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | RIP - Drosera Binata Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account. | eaten by the cat 3/1/95 | Old mailboxes still active. | ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 05 Jan 1995 18:50:55 -0800 Subject: BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION NEWSLETTER Gordon's original message bounced due to some bad mail headers that were included in the message. I'm forwarding back to the group now. -- Rick ------- Forwarded Message Although cp were not prominently mentioned it' easy to see that some of what occured here could effect some of us . hope this info is useful. -- GORDON C. SNELLING To: Multiple recipients of list x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION NEWSLETTER x x December 1994 x x x x published by x x x x Dept. Botany, Museum of Natural History, Smithsonian Institution x x [Editor: Jane Villa-Lobos (mnhbo019@sivm.si.edu)] x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x electronically published on x x x x CONSLINK x x a service of the x x Conservation & Research Center x x Smithsonian Institution x x Front Royal, VA 22630, USA x x [Editor: Michael Stuewe (nzpem001@sivm.si.edu)] x x ++++++ x x This newsletter is distributed free-of-charge on CONSLINK. x x Please feel free to forward it to anyone interested, x x as long as you do not charge for that service and you fully x x acknowledge the Editor and CONSLINK as sources. x x Should you want to distribute this newsletter and intend to x x charge your subscribers in any way, please contact both, x x the Editor of the newsletter and CONSLINK before you do so. x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION NEWSLETTER No. 139 December 1994 Smithsonian Institution Department of Botany, National Museum of Natural History Editor: Jane Villa-Lobos ________________________________________________________________ CITES COP9 MAIN RESULTS FOR PLANTS By Bruce MacBryde The 9th meeting of the Conference of the Parties (COP9) to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES) was held during 7-18 November 1994 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida (USA). Background on the treaty and plants is available in proceedings of the biennial COP meetings (1976-1994), and reports or minutes of the annual meetings of the CITES Plants Committee (1988-1994) and CITES Plant Working Group (1984-1987). Among the resolutions decided upon were: (1) replacement of the 1976 criteria and 1979 proposal format for documenting inclusion of species (fauna and flora) in CITES Appendices I and II with detailed clear and more scientifically objective criteria and the corresponding format for proposals; (2) the establishment of guidelines for inclusion of species in Appendix III; (3) consolidation (with some updating) of all the CITES resolutions; and (4) adoption of detailed criteria to begin international registration of those exporting nurseries that qualify in the artificial propagation of taxa in Appendix I. Six countries (Thailand, India, Madagascar, Kenya, Switzerland and Mexico) proposed successful amendments to the CITES appendices for plants, to list 4 species, uplist 20 species, downlist 8 species, and delist 2 species. Moreover by withdrawal of proposals, the cactus Astrophytum asterias stayed in Appendix I, and Camellia chrysantha stayed in Appendix II. The 24 additions to Appendices I and II enter into force on 16 February 1995. As sought respectively by Madagascar (with Switzerland) and by Thailand, export-import controls were strengthened and shared by uplisting to Appendix I 19 succulent Malagasy species: Pachypodium ambongense, Euphorbia cremersii and 17 rare Aloe spp. (mostly dwarf aloes), and the mainly Thailand orchid Dendrobium cruentum. Artificial propagation of some of these taxa is extensive, and cooperative efforts will be made by several countries (including USA) to facilitate propagation and/or the availability of the propagated specimens. Eight taxa were downlisted to Appendix II: five succulents - Euphorbia primulifolia, Pachypodium brevicaule but with no adult wild plants to be exported before COP10 in 1997, P. namaquanum, Leuchtenbergia principis and Mammillaria plumosa, and three orchids - Didiciea cunninghamii, Cattleya skinneri and Lycaste skinneri var. alba. Two species were delisted from Appendix II: the ornamental aroid Alocasia sanderiana, and the succulent Aloe vera - with which there are additional problems, such as the continued listing of A. vera var. chinensis (syn. A. indica), that were referred to the CITES Plants Committee (CPC). Proposals were rejected that would have made use of Appendix I controls by listing the New Zealand endemic Dactylanthus taylorii to stop the international commerce in its wood- roses, and by uplisting from Appendix II the Asian orchids Cypripedium cordigerum, C. elegans, C. himalaicum and C. tibeticum. Asian plants mostly withdrawn (one species rejected) from proposed listing in Appendix II were: Berberis aristata, Gentiana kurroo, Colchicum luteum, Rheum australe, Aconitum deinorrhizum, A. ferox, A. heterophyllum, Coptis teeta, Picrorhiza kurrooa and Nardostachys grandiflora. These 10 species will be evaluated by the CPC through its newly endorsed project on medicinal plants, in cooperation with the new IUCN SSC Medicinal Plants Specialist Group. One African and three Asian tree species were included in Appendix II, which are used for medicinal or other chemical purposes and as well for their wood: Prunus africana, Pterocarpus santalinus, Taxus wallichiana and Aquilaria malaccensis (syn. A. agallocha). Amendment of the redsanders (Pterocarpus) proposal excluded finished musical instruments, formulations and chemical derivatives; amendment of the Himalayan yew (Taxus) proposal excluded final medicines (e.g., taxol). The Latin American Swietenia macrophylla (bigleaf mahogany) and its natural hybrids with S. humilis (amended to regulate only the logs, sawn wood, veneer and plywood sheets) received 50 votes in favor and 33 votes against inclusion in Appendix II, which was 6 votes short of the two-thirds majority needed. Four proposals that had sought to include other tropical tree species in Appendix II to regulate their timber were withdrawn because of political or also technical considerations: in Africa - Dalbergia melanoxylon, Entandrophragma (ca. 11 spp.) and Khaya (ca. 6 spp.), and in Asia - Diospyros mun. A Timber Species Working Group was established under the CPC to improve implementation of CITES for such species. Additionally, the International Tropical Timber Organization (ITTO) at its 8-16 November 1994 meeting (in Yokohama, Japan) decided to encourage liaison between ITTO and CITES and to invite CITES to make a presentation at its May 1995 meeting in Accra, Ghana. The Parties doubled representation in the CITES Plants Committee for the three large developing regions, and selected nine regional members (as well as some alternates). The next CPC meeting is planned for May or June 1995 in the Canary Islands, hosted by Spain. The CITES Guide to Plants in Trade was published in 1994 and available for the Parties at COP9. The CPC will continue to support studies of significant trade, and work on an orchids checklist and the 2nd edition of the cacti checklist. COP10 is planned for the first half of 1997 in Zimbabwe. To obtain COP9 information, see for example the U.S. Federal Register notices published on 4 & 8 November 1994 and/or contact: U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Office of Scientific Authority, 725 Arlington Square Bldg., Washington, DC 20240; Tel.: (703) 358-1708; Fax: (703) 358-2276. Permit questions should go to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Office of Management Authority's Permits Branch, 432 Arlington Square Bldg., Washington, DC 20240; Tel.: (800) 358-2104; Fax: (703) 358-2281. ------- End of Forwarded Message ################### From: and_tax@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 05 Jan 1995 22:44:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Drosera flower spikes >...which grow vertically from the center of > the rosette. D.aliciae is doing something > totally different. As the spike grows, it > unrolls horizontally along the top most layer > of leaves until it reaches the outer edge > of the rosette and then it straightens up > and grows vertically until it reaches maximum > height (about 4 inches for mine). That s the way they do ;-) > I > thought this was accidental when the first > spike was produced but I have a second one > which has done the exact same thing. It s definitely the usual behaviour of D. aliciae and others. Nothing to worry about. Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: and_tax@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 05 Jan 1995 22:37:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Tissue Culture of Drosera > I was wondering if some of you out there could > give me some advice on tissue culture of > Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata > specifically)? I am an undergraduate student > taking a class on tissue culture and my > professor has given us a project where we > choose a plant (such as a house plant) to > reproduce through this method. Droseras are not very difficult to grow and propagate but tricky to getting them into culture via the vegetative parts as they re quite soft and delicate. Try to grow them from _seeds_ which _are_ _easy_ _to_ _sterilize_ and easy to germinate in vitro. > One piece of > information I need right away is what culturing > media is appropriate so that I can get it ready > ASAP (my teacher gave us two days !!! %-\ > to find this > out!). Try 2/3 strength of Knudsen C without hormones for germination. For propagation you have to try what Cytokinine gives you best results. Sorry, but I ve never grown D. capensis or D. binata in vitro and optimizing propagation rates is always trial and error. > I have not been able to find any > sources on tissue culturing Drosera, so any > information you have or you could direct me to > would be greatly appreciated. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 22:10:06 PST Subject: "Net Shopping" Hey, I LIKE seeing these posts that X is available. If there is a monetary fee attached, well, its my choice if I want to pay. Anyway, it sure beats getting 90 messages saying "Please email me if you have any plants for sale" each week! -BJ ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:46:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: introduction and colchicine Hello everybody, I didn't post anything on the list yet, so I will introduce myself first: My name is Martin Zevenbergen from The Netherlands, I'm growing cp's for almost 10 years with some interruptions. On the moment I'm not very active except some cp's on the windowsill at my work. (Drosera capensis, hamiltonii, dielsiana, intermedia, spathulata and Utricularia alpina) I work at the department of Plant taxonomy from the Agricultural University in Wageningen as laboratory assistant. Some days ago somebody (I don't remember who) was talking about colchicine, presumably to make tetraploids out of (normal) diploids. Well, if you want to buy this stuff, you can also order it at any big chemical company like Sigma or Merck. They have affiliates in many countries all over the world. If you want to have an adress, you can ask me. When you are going to use it, I have to give you a warning because it's really very poisonous, and you need to take some precautions like gloves, (dust mask), labcoat. Good luck, Martin Zevenbergen ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 13:17:46 MEZ Subject: a Studnicka's book Some times ago I posted a message where I offered to send anyone a book"Masozrave rostliny" (Carnivorous Plants) by M.Studnicka. Reently I visited a local shop which had sold it and found out this book is still available. So if you are interested in it, I'll be able to send you this book for the price 1 copy...$6, 2 ...$10, 3...$15, 4... $20, 5...$23. (postage included!) For the description of the book, look into the file 'cpbooks' in the server (e.g. send a message 'get CP cpbooks' to listserv@opus. hpl.hp.com) Ivo PS:Adolf, thanks for the address of Mr.Casper. I'll try to ask him about an English version of his monograph. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:23:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Re Grow boxes Good lord boys, you talking about a cold frame? ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:43:41 -0500 Subject: Re: BIOLOGICAL CONSERVATION N... Will we be getting this newsletter on this line? Or do we subscribe? Becky ################### From: Nancy Dagley Fraley Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:59:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: intro Greetings, I am a new subscriber to this listserv and believe it is policy to introduce oneself. I am a field botanist and presently work with a regional heritage program monitoring federally and state listed plants for a seven state area. I do not own any cp but am very interested in getting started on a small scale hence, I am subscribing. I read on this serv of another listserv relating to taxonomy--could someone repeat the address and the proper name of the serv. I tried subscribing to listserv@cmsa.berkeley.edu with 'subscribe taxcom' and another time 'subscribe taxonomy'--- 'No such listserv' was the reply. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I am a novice at this business. ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 06 Jan 1995 12:15:00 +0200 Subject: Re: In vitro Nepenthes Dear Ron, you expressed some ideas which I share but many others I do not. You wrote: > flowered N. rajah male and female in > cultivation??? Unless the collectors were > present during the pollination... Experience tells me that more than 90% of the tissue cultured Nepenthes that go round are true and I can tell this not only for the plants friends of mine or myself give away. Problems with the accuracy of labelling usually start when pure horticultural business is the sole cause for sale (=_real_ large scale propagation for garden centers etc.). Fortunately Nepenthes are not that popular so that smaller labs like mine (:-)) have a chance to exist solely for the "hobbyist market". If you look around _who_ is propagating Nepenthes in vitro you see that most of the people are really in the subject and know very very well what they grow. I would tell the same for myself and this is by no means meant in an arrogant way. Unfortunately it s a different story of accurancy of labelling with plants which are grown in botanical gardens or other collections since decades, unfortunately often by people who have no real botanical interest but just need plants for display. In Europe many of such collections had to survive two wars not to mention generations of gardeners with very inhomogeneous interest for special groups of plants. It s simply a matter of likehood that with the time the chance for accidental mislabeling rises. Cuttings of such, mostly victorian-time hybrids or _rarely_ also species are often given away for free to hobby growers who are often not experienced enough to judge if a plant (often an adult one ;-)) is labelled correctly. I further feel and that also is not meant arrogant (but maybe a little proud) that relatively few people to which I d count myself have introduced many species to the collections simply as a consequence of tissue culture techniques. Others are now available at prices which impressively dropped making e.g. N. rajah a plant everybody can grow _without_ _paying_ _huge_ _sums_ _or_ _being_ _in_ _danger_ _of_ _buying_ _wild_ _collected_ _plants_. These techniques made it possible to propagate species which could not otherwise be propagated at all. And - furthermore the accurancy of labelling has greatly improved because almost all plants sold really are what the label says. > Don't just request the data, DEMAND it!... Most suppliers (including myself) sell their plants not just as e.g. Nepenthes tentaculata but as Nepenthes tentaculata (Gunung Rajah) in all cases where it is still possible to trace back the origin of the mother plant growing in a botanic collection or the origin of the seeds. Unfortunately this is not always possible and in many cases exactly the clones which are grown in botanical gardens for long periods of time are the problem-childs where there is a chance near zero to trace back the origin. > In my opinion, the seller should be required to > supply the following data with their plants: > > Collection location I fully agree with you in this point as long as it is possible (see above). > or cultivation source ? > collection dates Why? What s important is the location. > if applicable, how long in vitro Why? > how long out of vitro (important for your > success in growing a new arrival) Of cause all plants have to be established prior to sale. However as you should know this period varies greatly from species to species... Only to give the info of a date does not mean that the plant is established. In fact it means nothing for the grower who is not really into tissue culture. What counts in the end is only the state of the plant. No matter how long the establishing period took. > If wild > collected, possible male parent Come on, be realistic (;-)), who would like to camp near a location to wait the three months from pollination to harvest his hand-pollinated seeds - sorry, I could not resist......;-) What really is important is the fact that the supplier guarantees for the labelling and that the plants are well established. > Ask your tissue culture source if they have > grown plants on to near maturity or at least to > a size that indicates a true identity. I feel that every person including the gardener makes mistakes. That s simply human. What is important is that suppliers stand for what they sell and return the money or change the plants in case a mislabelling has occured. I know nobody who never gave away a wrong labelled plant simply by mistake... ... and I also know nobody who sells plants knowing that they re wrong labelled. Most of the Nepenthes you and others grow would not be that widespread if the suppliers had always grown a sample specimen to full maturity. For N. villosa or similar species I d estimate periods of around 10 years to grow them to maturity! These plants would not have a chance to enter collections if there would be such a lag. And - _what_ _makes_ _you_ _so_ _sure_ _that_ _parents_ _which_ _look_ _true_ _really_ _are_ _true_. According to Mendel s rules this is not necessarily _true_. The phenotype of a livig being does in no diploid case tell everything about the genotype. You would need to do anther-culture to have all genes relevant for the phenotype really expressed in the phenotype and still - what s with all the genes which do not express theirself in a clearly visible phenotype. It s (in the strict sense) an illusion to speak of true or untrue species at all when referring to the danger of hybridization. You find populations of Nepenthes where nobody could guarantee that there are _"true"_ individuals at all. Many plant species are of hybridogenic origin, also including Nepenthes "species". What is a species? (;-)) But to be serious again: There are some populations (mainly disturbed ones!) which show extremely high degrees of hybridization (e.g. Gunung Ulu Kali and it s three sp. N. sanguinea, macfarlanei and gracillima) but in many other populations it s difficult to find adult hybrid plants at all (...showing appearent hybrid- phenotype ;-)). Well, if you look for seedlings you might be _lucky_ e.g. to find a single N. lowii x tentaculata hybrid but such hybrids which span that much of a distance within the genus usually are poor growers and rare occurencies. Mostly lowland populations with several "weedy" sp. like N. mirabilis, alata, rafflesiana...which are closer related are in danger of "hybrid- contamination" and if seeds were collected from a population where many hybrid plants were found I completely agree with you that one should be careful. Furthermore such hybrids often benefit from heterosis which makes them even more weedy than the parents. In contrast I d regard seeds from most highland populations as quite safe. And - If somebody "accidently" gets a N. lowii x tentaculata hybrid originating from the single grain of seed - oh, what a luck!!! Such hybrids are so much rarer than the species in the wild...and most suppliers -I m sure- would love to change this plant for the sp... > BUT that is when they gear up to do > thousands of each variety... In case of let s say N. villosa it took me almost 4 years of screening to develop a propagation-system. Now I have doubling times of maybe 6-8 months. If I would count the time I ve invested in many of the slow growing highland species I could not sell them at all because I would have to ask _really_ astronomical sums. But luckily for most of the suppliers the main reason to grow in-vitro stuff is simply passion and love to the plants. Compare the prices of rarer orchids which in fact can be very expensive with prices for rare Nepenthes and you ll see that Nepenthes are not at all overpriced. The opposite is true: Since there are quite a few people who try to sell a few of their in vitro offsprings Nepenthes prices have dropped rapidly. Think of a former really commercial source for Nepenthes which once sent plants to all over the world from Brunei. The plants were all taken from the wild and sold as soon as possible after collecting. Yes I mean R. Cantleys plants... . Such a business against all CITES-laws by people who would grab the last plant of a nerly extinct sp. from the wild in order to get the best price simply cannot exist anymore thanks to tissue culture techniques. Joachim, Heiko and I ve seen several populations of Nepenthes where we would feel that tissue culture is the only chance to save at least an image of the plant which will be extinct in 5 or ten years. Everybody who travelled in Asia and left bigger cities to see the forest must be shocked by the rapid destruction of rainforest by logging, burning and a fatal climatic shift which very likely is caused by the first two facts. Extreme drought-periods cause big fires which destroy whole regions and endemic species in this regions. Only to re-estimate...: N. campanulata is extinct! -because the whole region where this highly endemic species was growing is dead due to huge fires. N. clipeata is almost extinct! -because large parts of G. Kelam are burnt. It s just a matter of time...:-( As the frequent fires are a cause of a shift in the rain-dry season periods more to a drier year I see little chance for many of the endemic species to survive the next 10 or 20 years. As we are currently destroying our planet maybe we should at least try to keep such images for coming generations in order to show what once existed... ...seed of the species mentioned above should have been brought before it was too late...:-( > to fund direct operating expenses, but I > imagine that a good part goes to cover past and > future seed hunts. I m wondering why you discuss your _imaginations_ _about_ _people_ _you_ _do_ _not_ _really_ _know_ in the public... I in contrast _thought_ that you _exactly_ _know_ prices for laminar-flow- hoods, autoclaves, balances, ... and so on but maybe I m wrong ;-]. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 06 Jan 1995 12:27:00 +0200 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction Dear Michael, you wrote: > Please be refered to the netiquette. Meanwhile > I also regret to have started this discussion > as there is no real problem here (yet). Some time ago in a silly moment I posted my list here - and had to learn that this was very bad behaviour. I learned from this and promised myself not to do it again. Sorry, if having breached the rules of the netiquette again when having offered plants after they were looked for. I did not regard this as "illegal" but will not do so again if this offends your or other s feelings regarding good manners on the net. > So if it is so easy to propagate them why do > not you sell them hobbyists prices. I mean if I > see astronomical high prices for whatsoever > species... Please see my other today s posting. Peace Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 12:10 EST Subject: RE: grow box > Good lord boys, you talking about a cold frame? More like a Wardian Case. Michael ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 19:55:51 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction > > Dear Michael, > > you wrote: > > Peace Peace! ..Michael > > > Andreas > Andreas Wistuba > Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany > Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 > e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de > a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de > ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 13:07:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Netiquette Hi Folks, Similar topics have come up on the orchid list from time to time, involving plants for sale or trade, suppliers, etc. My feeling was that a brief, public mention that "I have this plant for sale or trade, please contact me directly", does not represent a breach of "netiquette". I purchased some very nice plants from a person who was down-sizing their collection in this manner. One thing that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough is that this list and associated databases exist in their present form due to the efforts of Rick Walker with the benevolence of Hewlett-Packard. While Rick graciously lets our "discussions" follow their own course, I don't think HP would take the same view of a list being used/abused (ie. the recent incense message) for internet marketing or other commercial ventures. I know the US government doesn't and since the National Science Foundation supports much of internet you can imagine some distubing outcomes. Just my 2 cents worth. Jeff ################### From: Adam Wexler Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 11:08:19 -0800 (PST) XSubject: Netiquette I have succesfully subscribed to taxon, thanks to all who helped. -ADW ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:28:52 -0700 Subject: Internet marketing Wow, I've been with this list since it began, and I guess the appearance of flames indicates it's matured. :) There's been some discussion about the appropriateness of using the newsgroup as a market place. I've got a few thoughts on this... First, there's the crap on the list regarding buying incense. That kind of stuff is basic abuse of the network and is indefensible. I think the person responsible should be covered with dried dung and slowly burnt. (for the easily incensed, that's just a joke) Second, there's the occasional distribution by hobbyists, of seeds or plants for money. I do this twice a year with _Sarracenia_ seeds and seedlings, as well as year-round with people who inquire about my Utrics etc and who have little or no trading leverage. I think this is entirely appropriate. I used to distribute plants for free until the postage charges added up (as this newsgroup enlarged!). And no insult to the newer growers, but it became tiresome to constantly package and ship specimens of _D.capillaris_ and _D.capensis_ to people with no trade coming back. So either I live with postage charges of $30/month in altruistic bliss (and pay no attention to the righteous cluckings from the missus), or not distribute plants to people at all (wouldn't that be obnoxious!), or charge a few bucks to cover postage and effort on my part. Third, there's the semi-professional work that Andreas or Uwe does. Again, I have no problem with that. I think that the occasional message from those growers saying what they have for sale is fine. If every time I got a bundle of mail it included THE-LATEST-PLANTS-AVAILABLE-BUY-BUY-BUY I'd get a little irritated. But that's not the situation at all. I also think their prices are perfectly fine considering the tiny market as well as the laboratory skills these guys have developed. One of my favorite things about CPing is that other than the limited set of species available to the starting CPer from the few nurseries, if you want to get plants you MUST network, and in the process you meet some really great people from around the globe. I trade extensively with other growers, but can do so because I have a large collection. Other mechanisms must exist in order to allow newbies to gain trading leverage. Barry ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:11:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Internet marketing > From listserv@jr.hpl.hp.com Fri Jan 6 15:50:27 1995 > > Wow, I've been with this list since it began, and I guess the appearance > of flames indicates it's matured. :) > > There's been some discussion about the appropriateness of using the newsgroup > as a market place. I've got a few thoughts on this... > > First, > Second, > Third, > > Barry > Well said Barry, couldn't agree more. Tom in Fl ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 17:58:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Tissue Culture of Drosera > It has been some time since we've discussed TC formulas. I'm also just > a beginner, but here is a list summarizing what I know (with great > appreciation to Jan Schlauer, Andreas Wistuba, and Tom Hillson for their > input!) If anyone else can add to this list, please do! Yes! Finally some media's and hormone concentrations! One question arrises: > Nepenthes {L.} > - 2/3 Knudsen C(*)with 0.2-2mg/L BAP for mult. Rooting horm. > not neces. > - Anderson's may be used also (N. ephippiata likes it). > - Lowland only: (DeKanel) .5 MS, 20g/L Sucrose, 6g/L agar. > w/ 0.1-0.2 BAP multiplying When referring to the BAP, are the concentrations in percentages, or is that mg/L? I assume percentages, but just to be safe. Thank you. Jeff ################### From: "Houston, James A." Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 17:45:10 Subject: Loss of messages... Hi gang, I was just trying to isolate a problem I *think* I'm having... I have sent a few messages to the list, but I don't see them (since I subscribe to the list, I usually see the messages I post). What's bothering me about this is that I see responses to messages I wrote...but I don't see the post I made. That makes me wonder.... My mailer here at work is up and down like a yo-yo, it could be that. Is it normal practice for senders to NOT get messages that they post? If everyone who posts messages on the list - gets that same message because they are on the list, I'm missing many many messages because our system administrators here just reboot the computer when they have problems - I'm starting to wonder if they are trashing my in/out email by doing that. Sorry to bother you with this, I'm just trying to figure out what's going wrong with my email. Thanks, Jim Houston jh2@scires.com ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 16:28:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Hydroponicly grown CP's? On Wed, 28 Dec 1994, Clarke Brunt wrote: > What exactly is the definition of 'hydroponic'? Is it > any system where the 'soil' has no nutrients of its > own and everything is supplied in solution? Even when > the soil *does* have nutrients, they have to dissolve > in water to be absorbed by the plant, so I don't really > see what the difference is. > Well, I'm sure this has been answered already, but I've been away for the holidays, so I'm allowed to answer it again. I just happen to be the editor of a high-tech gardening magazine specializing in hydroponic cultivation, so I will give you a brief definition of hydroponics. Here it is: Soilless cultivation. That's it. It's a much faster and intensive method of growing, because the soil is not there to buffer nutrients. They go directly to the plants. The plants' roots are suspended in the growth chamber, which has a nutrient solution circulating throughout. They are supported by a growth medium: perlite, rockwool, clay pebbles... you get the idea. The solution is circulated via a pump. Do not use pine bark in a hydroponic system because, like soil, it will soak up precious elements. CPs will do extraordinarily well grown hydroponically, as does most everything else. I'm VERY glad to see this group is interested in hydroponic cultivation; it's the new era in growing. >From Trisha >tcoene@csos.orst.edu ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:10:05 -0800 Subject: New images on CP WWW page I just added the following images to the cp web page: From Isao Takai: Pinguicula macroceras (10 images), Pinguicula ramosa (4 images) From Geoff Wong: Nepenthes alata, Nepenthes glabrata From James Powell: Sarracenia alata, Darlingtonia californica (2 images), Sarracenia oreophila (2 images), Sarracenia leucophylla, Nepenthes * dyeriana, Nepenthes ventricosa * Nepenthes alata I also added a pointer to Barry's list of CP society addresses. We now have 73 images on line, and have logged 1122 access from 147 sites since Nov. 15th. Thanks guys! -- Rick Walker ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:30:59 -0800 Subject: Plants for Sale Thanks Barry, > There's been some discussion about the appropriateness of using the > newsgroup as a market place. I've got a few thoughts on this... As our group charter indicates: Topics of interest to the group include: 1) Cultivation and Propagation of CP's 2) Field observations of CP's 3) Sources of CP material 4) CP trading between members This includes reasonable postings of "plants for sale". If you are personally squeamish about this, or have a huge list that you think would be inappropriate to post, then: 1) send me your commercial list. 2) I will put in it the archives 3) you can then post a short note telling interested parties where to find your information Just to remind everyone: There is a consolidated price list of commercial sources in the archives under "cp.sellerlist". This list is only as good as the contributions I receive. Please send me new updates as you can! -------------------------- Dear Jeffrey, > When referring to the BAP, are the concentrations in percentages, or is that > mg/L? I assume percentages, but just to be safe. It is mg/L. Also, I have not had much success with 0.5MS media for Nepenthes. Several have germinated and died. I think it may be too strong of a mix for certain species (?) -------------------------- Dear James, I was just trying to isolate a problem I *think* I'm having... I have sent a few messages to the list, but I don't see them (since I subscribe to the list, I usually see the messages I post). The default is for the listserver to *not* send a carbon copy back to the originator. This cuts down on needless email. If you want to see your postings, either change your mail mode to ACK or DIGEST. -- Rick Walker ################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 00:45:19 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Plants for Sale > Topics of interest to the group include: > > 1) Cultivation and Propagation of CP's > 2) Field observations of CP's > 3) Sources of CP material > 4) CP trading between members > > This includes reasonable postings of "plants for sale". I support this. I don't want to be flooded with for sale messages, but on the other hand it would be nice to know what is available and at what cost. many newbies like myself don't have much access to CP sources, and it seems that exports from the US to Canada (uh, legal exports that is) have been banned for many CP species, reducing the sources even further. (Okay I support restrictions designed to prevent wild harvesting of CPs, but I don't see why restrictions should be placed on certified greenhouse-raised plants). So I am interested in seeing what is available and at what cost...if I don't wish to buy then I don't have to. Don ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:43:12 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Internet marketing > > > > Second, there's the occasional distribution by hobbyists, of seeds or plants > for money. I do this twice a year with _Sarracenia_ seeds and seedlings, > as well as year-round with people who inquire about my Utrics etc and who > have little or no trading leverage. I think this is entirely appropriate. > I used to distribute plants for free until the postage charges added up > (as this newsgroup enlarged!). And no insult to the newer growers, but it > became tiresome to constantly package and ship specimens of _D.capillaris_ > and _D.capensis_ to people with no trade coming back. So either I live with > postage charges of $30/month in altruistic bliss (and pay no attention to > the righteous cluckings from the missus), or not distribute plants to people > at all (wouldn't that be obnoxious!), or charge a few bucks to cover postage > and effort on my part. > Barry, I totally agree with you in this point. If I have something toto give away I usual give it away for free (I am to get something in exchange but I do not really expect it). Somehow, I do this in the belief of something like a hobbyists code of honour. You are right to demand to demand a compensation for postage if they add up sig- nificantly. At the same time I usually do not pay anything significant (>$10) for plants. > Third, there's the semi-professional work that Andreas or Uwe does. Again, > I have no problem with that. I think that the occasional message from > those growers saying what they have for sale is fine. If every time I > got a bundle of mail it included THE-LATEST-PLANTS-AVAILABLE-BUY-BUY-BUY > I'd get a little irritated. But that's not the situation at all. I also > think their prices are perfectly fine considering the tiny market as well > as the laboratory skills these guys have developed. I have got a slightly different opinion about this: IMO if tiny tissue cultured plants are sold for prices over say over $100 I strongly believe something is wrong. > > One of my favorite things about CPing is that other than the limited set > of species available to the starting CPer from the few nurseries, if you > want to get plants you MUST network, and in the process you meet some really > great people from around the globe. I trade extensively with other growers, > but can do so because I have a large collection. Other mechanisms must exist > in order to allow newbies to gain trading leverage. Right, and from my experience these "great" people are most of the time enthusiastic hobbyists who *do not rob* their friends. ..Michael > > Barry > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: ritter@floyd.HQ.ileaf.com (Janice Ritter x5444) Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 16:58:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Internet marketing I agree with Barry - a little trading/buying between hobbyists isn't a drag here - it's fun! It's how I got my first D.capensis, as well as my first Sarracenia. :-) Please don't stop posting a sale/trade list here and there. (And if anybody wants some D. capensis, btw, send me return postage and you can have them! Guess I'm treating them well enough for them to multiply...) Thanks, from a new cp enthusiast, Janice Ritter ritter@ileaf.com ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Sat, 7 Jan 95 08:16:03 EST Subject: Re: Loss of messages... Response to Jim Houston's query about not seeing his own messages. Funny, but that happens to me also, regularly. I've been puzzled about that. Does the list automatically filter out the sender's name, and not include that in the general circulation? If not, how come neither Jim nor I see any of the messages we send out to the list? Bob Korfhage korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 17:59:50 +200 Subject: Re: (re)Introduction -Reply Dear Andreas (and others), I support you whole heartedly and find the attack on you childish and totally unnecessary! I DO grow CP in vitro, using University resources and I also offer them to other collectors who may have something in their collection that we don't have in ours!! On many occasions I have wanted to obtain something without having anything to exchange in return, so I have been grateful to have had the opportunity to BUY it. Yes, I do enjoy the "commercial" aspects of plant hunting - without it how many specimens of rare plants would we have in our collections? Cheers for now. Regards Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 07 Jan 1995 13:00:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Tissue Culture of Drosera > > - 2/3 Knudsen C(*)with 0.2-2mg/L BAP > > for mult. Rooting horm. > When referring to the BAP, are the > concentrations in percentages, or is that mg/L? > I assume percentages, but just to be safe. mg/L (phytohormones are very powerful even if the concentrations seem to extremely low) Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 95 14:06 EST Subject: RE: phytohormones > mg/L > (phytohormones are very powerful even if the concentrations seem to > extremely low) > Homeopathy for plants! :-) Michael ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:44:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: (re)Introduction -Reply I agree wholeheartedly. I think that it is completely appropriate for cp growers to let people know what they have in a cp group. It is not the same as fending off telephone solicitors trying to sell you something with no relevance, or our "Mr. Incense" episode.. Since so many people find a group like this because of requests to find cp material, why shouldn't readers be made aware of it? With appropriate headers, it is easy to avoid reading posts that one doesn't find interesting. Bob On Sat, 7 Jan 1995, Rogan Roth wrote: > Dear Andreas (and others), > > I support you whole heartedly and find the attack on you childish > and totally unnecessary! I DO grow CP in vitro, using University > resources and I also offer them to other collectors who may have > something in their collection that we don't have in ours!! On > many occasions I have wanted to obtain something without having > anything to exchange in return, so I have been grateful to have > had the opportunity to BUY it. Yes, I do enjoy the "commercial" > aspects of plant hunting - without it how many specimens of rare > plants would we have in our collections? > > Cheers for now. > > Regards > Rogan Roth. > > (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) > ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Sat, 07 Jan 95 17:03 EST Subject: RE: trade & sell > I agree wholeheartedly. I think that it is completely appropriate for cp > growers to let people know what they have in a cp group. It is not the > same as fending off telephone solicitors trying to sell you something with > no relevance, or our "Mr. Incense" episode.. Since so many people find a > group like this because of requests to find cp material, why shouldn't > readers be made aware of it? With appropriate headers, it is easy to > avoid reading posts that one doesn't find interesting. At the risk of preaching to the choir, I'll put in my wholehearted agreement as well! One of the really nice things about cp collecting is the circulation of plant material through trading (or selling for nominal costs), be it through the ICPS seedbank or through contacts with fellow growers (ie. through this group). Unlike the collecting of stamps, or coins, or even other living things like birds or cacti, cp are comparatively very easy to propagate. If you grow them well, you'll probably have more than you need on your hands. But they don't become weeds because cp have that all-so-tantalizing ability to die very suddenly without any forewarning :-) This is just another good reason to "spread the wealth" through trading, and not be proprietary about one's specimens. most cp mature very rapidly (say I, as a cactus collector :-) so a nice specimen is really a sign of good cultivation, not just a sign of a big ancient plant probably hoisted from the wild back in the 1960's (as so many of today's prize specimen cacti were). Most importantly, a good web of collectors all exchanging propagules cuts down on the drive to exploit wild plants. Why pay big bucks for a Venus Flytrap of dubious origin? I think there will always be someone on the list willing to trade, sell, or give away a few extra VFTs! Michael ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 07 Jan 95 19:34:55 EST Subject: Re: CP digest 215 Jeff, BAP (or BA) is an extremely potent cytokinin. I am not certain (and would love to know if someone has info), but it seems that it is taken up from the media and the effects are long lasting on Nepenthes plants. I have seen Nepenthes plants that never seem to stop producing axillary buds after coming out of the lab. I would like to know if anyone has looked at concentrations of synthetic phytohormones in established TC plants of various ages. I avoid this one in the lab. Kinetin is much more forgiving. I have had the most success (ie. 9 of 10 species roughly) using 1/3 strength MS Minimal Organic salts (add extra Thiamine and Inositol to account for the dilution, let me know if I need to explain this further), 3% sucrose, pH 5-6, and 1 mg/l kinetin. When I use BAP, 0.1-0.3 mg/liter seems plenty. I am trying Knudsons (1/2 strength) for a few Nepenthes that seem to require more basic conditions at least in my experience (N. macrovulagaris, etc.) Of course, this would give them more nitrogen, etc., too. Hope this helps. Best, Ron Gagliardo ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 19:58:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Plants for Sale On Fri, 6 Jan 1995 thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca wrote: > it seems that exports from the US to Canada (uh, legal exports that is) > have been banned for many CP species, reducing the sources even further. > (Okay I support restrictions designed to prevent wild harvesting of CPs, > but I don't see why restrictions should be placed on certified > greenhouse-raised plants). So I am interested in seeing what is CPs aren't banned from importation they just require a CITES certificate. The problem for us here in Canada is that most (well, maybe all) growers in the U.S. don't want to or haven't got their USFWS cites export license. I think it costs $140 for 2 or 3 years(?) and if they don't have many export clients it isn't worth it for them. Even after they have the license they have to apply for a CITES certificate for each separate shipment. This can take from 2-4 weeks and costs $25.00 each. When the plants are to be shipped they then have to be inspected by a USFWS officer who stamps the certificate and makes the final OK. Of course you still need the phytosanitary certificate and you have to make sure you have a plant import permit for our end of the shipment. If the nursery is in a non-designated CITES export port then it first has to be sent to a designated export port for the inspection because if the inspector has to go to the nursery in a distant spot they charge by the hour!! No fooling! Needless to say it stinks. There is an alternative that most nurseries don't want to do (can't blame them) is to apply for a CITES export permit under their own names and not as a business. If they send it to you as if you were a friend then they can get the certificate without all the bother of having an actual license for their company. Harold ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 08 Jan 95 10:19:20 EST Subject: Re: In vitro Nepenthes and their respective data, etc. Dear Andreas, Pardon the delay in responding to Digest 214. Well it seems that you have taken this way too personally, which I regret. However, I think that we are allowing this to cloud the important points. I would like to comment on a few things for interest of the group >I further feel and that also is not meant arrogant (but maybe a little >proud) that relatively few people to which I d count myself have >introduced many species to the collections simply as a consequence of >tissue culture techniques. Others are now available at prices which >impressively dropped making e.g. N. rajah a plant everybody can grow >_without_ _paying_ _huge_ _sums_ _or_ _being_ _in_ _danger_ _of_ _buying_ >_wild_ _collected_ _plants_. These techniques made it possible to >propagate species which could not otherwise be propagated at all. And - >furthermore the accurancy of labelling has greatly improved because almost >all plants sold really are what the label says. I am not sure you read my message closely. This is truly a great thing and as I said, I APPLAUDE YOUR EFFORTS!!!!!! I agree, 5 years ago, even the thought of growing one's own N rajah was difficult due to lack of plant material!!! I AM EXTREMELY HAPPY ABOUT THIS! I am just inquiring about what the labels actually say. >> In my opinion, the seller should be required to >> supply the following data with their plants: > Collection location >>I fully agree with you in this point as long as it is possible (see above). That's good. For the serious collector, it must be possible. Even if the seed came from cultivated material from a botanical garden that perhaps lost the label or data, such information should be revealed. Even if the data ends up reading "seeds collected from plants grown at the Munich Botanical Garden, collecting data for which is lost." >> collection dates >>Why? What s important is the location. Yes, location is important, but date of collection is also important for wild collected seeds. This might deter others from going back to collect more seeds or help detect possible hybridization that occurred in another year. Seed collected from the same plant might be different from year to year depending on it's surroundings, etc. (A small point, I admit) A larger point, though, regarding location data is that is is necessary for any restoration work. Is anyone doing any thing with TC Nepenthes other than collecting seed, working out the techniques of growing them and then distributing them to growers? What about coordinating restoration work with the countries of origin? I realize that the beauracracy involved may seem insurmountable, but have you inquired? I also realize that restoration with a limited number of genotypes may not be in the long term best interests, making in necessary to maintain large numbers of separate clones, etc. Another obstacle to work at. . . . . >> if applicable, how long in vitro >>Why? >> how long out of vitro (important for your >> success in growing a new arrival) >>Of cause all plants have to be established prior to sale. I think this should be the case. >>Only to give the info of a date does not mean that the plant is >>established. I agree 100% >>In fact it means nothing for the grower who is not really >>into tissue culture. I disagree and this is an important point for the folks who are getting in TC Nepenthes. I frequently show visitors to the Atlanta Botanical Garden two separate plants of Nepenthes (I use N truncata, ventricosa, khasiana, and some hybrids as examples) to compare the vigor and growth rates of seed grown plants (WITH GERMINATION AND ANY SUBSEQUENT TRANSPLANT DATES) with that of much superior in vitro plants (AGAIN, WITH ALL THE DATES!!). Of course they are amazed and often say that they are interested in obtaining such plants (and I refer them to sources, by the way!), but without some data, making the comparisons will be much more difficult. >>What counts in the end is only the state of the plant. No matter how long >>the establishing period took. I think you are underestimating the scientific ability of the growers here. While just obtaining N. rajah or N. lowii in any form may totally satisfy some collectors, I venture to say that there will be many who are more interested in the background of their plants. Through ICPS, many are now growing their own Nepenthes from seed and in some limited cases will have things to compare. > If wild > collected, possible male parent >>What really is important is the fact that the supplier guarantees for the >>labelling and that the plants are well established. I agree and I realize that it might fill volumes for the seller to provide all the data with the plants when they publish a price list for instance. Also, I agree that there may be some discrepancies as to what is a true species in some cases. However, to keep things totally above board, some labelling changes might be in order. What if all the TC sources were to label their plant accordingly as to origin of the seed? Perhaps a W for wild collected and C for cultivated, then make more data available when people inquire. What about a worldwide data bank that we could all send our TC data to for distribution to botanical gardens, etc.? I am merely throwing out ideas now. >> Ask your tissue culture source if they have >> grown plants on to near maturity or at least to >> a size that indicates a true identity. A size that indicates identity may not take too long to achieve under good conditions. I was not speaking of flowering size. This is a cloudy issue in my mind, because mature-type pitchers may not develop so quickly in some species, etc. A policy to replace or refund for any that do not come "true" should cover that. > BUT that is when they gear up to do > thousands of each variety... >>If I would count the time I ve invested in many of the slow growing highland species I could not sell them at all because I would have to ask _really_ astronomical sums.But luckily for most of the suppliers the main reason to grow in-vitro stuff is simply passion and love to the plants. Compare the prices of rarer orchids which in fact can be very expensive with prices for rare Nepenthes and you ll see that Nepenthes are not at all overpriced. I can relate to what it takes to set up and run a lab. I started with a UV box in high school and ended up with several flow hoods, two autoclaves and almost round the clock production. The costs can be phenomenal to set up a professional lab. On a hobby scale, one could easily set up a facility in a spare room of their house for US$2000.00 . But this is partly the price of passion and love of the plants, I agree. I will say that costs can vary greatly depending on whether or not one is supporting himself only by their TC work or if it is done "on the side" as a hobby. >>The opposite is true: Since there are quite a few people who try to sell a >>few of their in vitro offsprings Nepenthes prices have dropped rapidly. I agree. If these people are on the internet (and I think several are), I'd like to hear their opinions on collection, maintenance and distribution of data. >>Joachim, Heiko and I ve seen several populations of Nepenthes where we >>would feel that tissue culture is the only chance to save at least an >>image of the plant which will be extinct in 5 or ten years. I also agree with your views on loss of habitat, etc. I believe the combination of factors leading to loss of habitat cause the most problems for Nepenthes and other plants and animals, etc. There is nothing to argue there. I was recently in Costa Rica, where the same thing is happening. It does however, make our roles in conservation missions more pressing, as things are literally disappearing before our eyes. We must not lose sight of the fact that along with the distribution of plant material as a result of our efforts in the lab, there is also a greater need to share the data and experiences that come along the way. Coming to work at a botanical garden, the mission of which is partly (and a large part) to to promote plants for conservation, research and education, I am beginning to understand this all a lot better. A public apology for letting my "imagination" out regarding the funding of plant hunts, etc. What people do with the profits from plant sales is of no business of mine and I regret any suppositions to the contrary. Best, Ron Gagliardo ------------------------------ ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 08 Jan 1995 08:32:00 +0200 Subject: Re: CP digest 215 > Nepenthes plants that never seem to stop > producing axillary buds after coming out of the > lab. I would like to know if anyone has looked > at concentrations... In my experience usually (not always...) a rooting step with IBA prior to potting stops the problem. Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 16:51:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Loss of messages... > Response to Jim Houston's query about not seeing his own messages. > Funny, but that happens to me also, regularly. I've been puzzled > about that. Does the list automatically filter out the sender's name, > and not include that in the general circulation? If not, how come > neither Jim nor I see any of the messages we send out to the list? As far as I know (it's in the help for the listserv) the default behaviour is *not* to mail messages back to the sender. There are some listserv commands to modify this (remember to post to listserv and not to cp if you try them) set cp mail noack (the default - don't return your own mail) set cp mail ack (*do* send messages back) set cp mail postpone (don't send any messages at all) To resume, after you have postponed, just set it to ack or noack. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:53:14 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: IN VITRO stuff Dear Michael, please think, before you bring your 'Internet-Stuff' about 'In Vitro stuff'. All the people, who I know, do progagate the In Vitro plants by their own and not with any supply of Universities and I don't want to tell you, how expensive it is. In the time, when you are going maybe with your girlfriend to the cinema, they sit at their hood and propagate the plant-material and I think, it is quite legitime (maybe not about internet) to sell it, to get back the uncost. They do it because of private interest, but please tell me a better way, to save endangered species in the wild! Plant-hunting will not be any more interesting, if you can get all the stuff for some $ out of In Vitro cultures. Who is anymore interested to hunt N. rajah, if you can get it complete with CITES to buy everywhere. So, now tell me please, what you are doing, to save the species in the wild! You can e.g. buy the areas, where rare species are growing, to protect it from logging or try to organize it, but do it. Have a e.g a look to Borneo! Do you know how long the species will survive in the wild? They are killed by logging and fire, not by plant-hunters and I would be happy, if I would have got seed from species like N. neglecta or N. campanulata from them to keep the genome alive, at least in the tube and in a lot of greenhouses. Now they are extinct and we can't bring them back again! Sorry for this hard lines, but think about that. Joe N. ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:51:52 +0100 Subject: Re: New Pinguicula? Dioecy, Do you remember: >(...) I met a Mexican student recently >who also has an interest in the Panguiculas.(...) He has , or is about to >finish publishing one which he is calling P. monteczuma, (not to clear about >the spelling yet) it should be showing up soon. It has shown up! ZAMUDIO-RUIZ & ORTEGA, ACTA BOT.MEX.28:58 (1994) COMMENT: _Pinguicula moctezumae_ is described as new. It is closely related to _P.gypsicola_ (very narrow, pointed "summer" leaves), and it occurs at several places in the Canyon of R.Moctezuma, Mexico. It differs from _P.g._ by the broad, elliptic to obovoid corolla lobes (similar to _P.colimensis_). The corolla is shown to be subject to considerable variation in the same paper. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:54:27 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff Dear Joachim, I am sorry that you got me wrong (as Andreas). I simply do not care if or if not you or anybody earns a golden nose propagating 'In Vitro stuff' with or without support from Universities, NSF, NSA, NRA, or whatsoever. I mind if things here get 'too commercial'. I do not mind references to sources or people offering their stuff for trade or sale. Parti- cular, if astronomical 'black market' prices are requested. > > Dear Michael, > > please think, before you bring your 'Internet-Stuff' about 'In Vitro stuff'. > All the people, who I know, do progagate the In Vitro plants by their own > and not with any supply of Universities and I don't want to tell you, how > expensive it is. In the time, when you are going maybe with your > girlfriend to the cinema, they sit at their hood and propagate the > plant-material and I think, it is quite legitime (maybe not about > internet) to sell it, to get back the uncost. Yepp, nobody forces you to take these costs. It's your own pleasure. I have mine indeed going out with my girlfriend. :-) > > They do it because of private interest, but please tell me a better way, > to save endangered species in the wild! Plant-hunting will not be any > more interesting, if you can get all the stuff for some $ out of In Vitro > cultures. Who is anymore interested to hunt N. rajah, if you can get it > complete with CITES to buy everywhere. This is hypocritical. Honestly, if you make xxxx bucks by selling N.yyyyyy it is first of all the money you get for an extremely seldom plant. Tissue culture is not the topic here. It just shortens turn-around times, i.e. the time until the species is readily available. Thus, it is nothing more than a production technique. The point I make is that people are not hunting for N.rajah (because it is readily available) but others. The names change (very fast). Still the problem has the same features as earlier. In contrast to the past people now run to the rain forrest collecting new species (naming them thus creating a market and propagating them in their own monetary interest believing in the need to environmentally -> tissue cultured satisfy the demand). You know yourself that the genetic diversity is not preserved by tissue culture. You also know the market value of newly introduced species. What I accuse is the hypocracy to say "we are doing tissue culture to save the rain forrest" instead of saying "yes they have a market value and that is why I am propagating them for my own financial benefit". If this is in a commercial scale the internet is the wrong place to market it. I am not talking about 'uncosts'. I am talking about plants little tiny bastards (tissue cultured 2cm in height) offered for $50 and more. This is not the hobbyist propagating them in his/her hood (during the time when other's are going out with their girlfriends) for his/her fun but an entrepreneur with the aim to make money. > > So, now tell me please, what you are doing, to save the species in the > wild! You can e.g. buy the areas, where rare species are growing, to > protect it from logging or try to organize it, but do it. See above. You do not save the genetic diversity by tissue culture of one (not even two male/female) plant. So, tell me please, what do you do against the global warming, the war in Chechnia, ... > Have a e.g a look to Borneo! Do you know how long the species will > survive in the wild? They are killed by logging and fire, not by > plant-hunters and I would be happy, if I would have got seed from species > like N. neglecta or N. campanulata from them to keep the genome alive, at > least in the tube and in a lot of greenhouses. Now they are extinct and > we can't bring them back again! What does N.xxxx help us in the tube if the forrests are gone ? It is hypocritical to say plant collectors do any good to the nature by ha- ving the plants in their greenhouses. It is for their own fun. > > Sorry for this hard lines, but think about that. Read my comments. We all have to make our living somehow. > > Joe N. > > ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 09 Jan 95 07:06:44 EST Subject: Re: CP digest 216 Greetings all. Well, it seems that my messages have been a bit misinterpreted lately and I wanted to clarify a couple issues recently brought out by Bob Beer and Rogan Roth. First, I have no problem with people making plants available for trade or sale on the list. I have always been a advocate of trading plants. It puts the FUN into it. This is NOT the issue. Secondly, my initial message was not an attack on anyone. I was merely bringing up a few issues that I thought needed to be addressed. I think that what folks are doing with regards to in vitro Nepenthes is good, but I think that for the novices on the list (and others) that the TC folks should give us more data! And why aren't more of them speaking out? R.Roth wrote: >Yes, I do enjoy the "commercial" > aspects of plant hunting - without it how many specimens of rare > plants would we have in our collections? > Case in point, I think you are missing the point. The goal here is not just adding the rarest Nepenthes to our collections, regardless of price, but to use these techniques and more importantly, this list and our various contacts to work toward the preservation of these plants for all, not just our own collections. I suggest that all the folks doing in vitro work post their in vitro collections and perhaps encourage more exchange among ourselves. Perhaps we could make a separate archived list of in vitro sources/researchers? Any thoughts Rick Walker? Best, Ron Gagliardo ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:07:02 +0100 Subject: Re: Casper monograph Ivo, >PS:Jan, may I ask you where in the Czechoslovakia were you born? > It is very interesting! Thanks. I was born in Prague. Very interesting place (PRESL, WETTSTEIN, DOMIN, KRAJINA, DOSTAL...I know this list is far from complete; just a few +/- representatives), indeed! Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:34:12 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: CP digest 216 > > > Case in point, I think you are missing the point. The goal here is > not just adding the rarest Nepenthes to our collections, regardless of > price, but to use these techniques and more importantly, this list and > our various contacts to work toward the preservation of these plants > for all, not just our own collections. I suggest that all the folks > doing in vitro work post their in vitro collections and perhaps > encourage more exchange among ourselves. Perhaps we could make a > separate archived list of in vitro sources/researchers? Any thoughts > Rick Walker? > > Hi, (this is getting the most exciting thread since alt.nuke.damn.saddam. hussein :-) albeit I doubt the potential of tissue culture to preserve a species rather than to preserve one particular gene-set, I believe this would at least enforce competion. 'The right to choose'. ..Michael ObQuestion: What did you do to save the rain forrests today ? ObAnswer: I sold one tissue cultured N.speculatius for 200 bucks. > Best, > Ron Gagliardo > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 13:15:49 +0100 Subject: Re: Pings Christopher, >Basically they seem to be forming very small, reddish orbs at the >center of their rosettes. Anyone have any idea what this could be? >Could they be forming their winter resting buds? I'm also curious to >know what species they are, if anyone with more knowledge of pings >out there knows what the Peter Pauls plants are. Are the orbs still what they were, or have they developed into flowers already? For ID of _Pinguicula_ spp., flowers are necessary. Try to measure the length of the spur (backward pointing appendage to the corolla lower lip) and the dimension and relative positions of the corolla (coloured flower parts) lobes. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Heiko Rischer Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:19:14 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Tissue Culture of Drosera On Thu, 5 Jan 1995, Kyle Williams wrote: > > I was wondering if some of you out there could give me some advice on > tissue culture of Drosera (D. capensis and D. binata specifically)? You already got basic data for the tissue culture from different people. There is nothing to add in reference to the formulas but there is a trick getting plant material sterile:Species like D. binata or D. capensis often produce flower stalks and it is easier getting these parts sterile, because the tissue is not as soft as leaves. When sterile planted, the stalks will soon produce buds. Hope, the message reaches you in time and helps Heiko ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 08:20 EST Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff This brings up an interesting question: if one mixes cultures of male and female Nepenthes tissues, or even of different species, is it possible to produce a chimera possessing tissues of both parents? Michael ################### From: strayer@unix.sri.com (Michael Strayer) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 05:40:44 PST Subject: Listserver Help I have been trying to access archive files on the listserver but all I get is the following message : >No requests found in your message. Requests should be included in the >body of the mail message. > Ths message body that generated this was send cp.sellerlist Could someone out there give me a clue as to where I'm screwing up? Thanks Mike Strayer ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 07:54:52 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Pings Regarding the Peter Pauls Pings: > Are the orbs still what they were, or have they developed into flowers > already? For ID of _Pinguicula_ spp., flowers are necessary. Try to > measure the length of the spur (backward pointing appendage to the > corolla lower lip) and the dimension and relative positions of the > corolla (coloured flower parts) lobes. I checked them last night, and one appears to be forming a scape separate from the "orbs", which have expanded in size. They're starting to look like they may be new plants budding from the parent, despite the reddish tinge, but I had thought these would form on the outer leaves (as in the case with primuliflora) rather than in the center of the rosette. I've been hoping for some time now that either one of these will bloom, because maybe then I'll be able to ID them. ################### From: Heiko Rischer Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:59:39 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff Dear Michael, Nobody believes that "in vitro culture saves the rain forest". It is true that TC is a new propagation technique but not "just" a technique. It gives the chance to save endangered plants in culture (you mentioned the high turn-over-rates). This takes the pressure by collecting from areas in the wild where these species naturally occur (not the pressure by logging, this is another problem). You are right saying that there are even in these days new undiscoverd species out there in the jungle (i.e. the small areas left), but I disagree if you claim these will be discovered and named because somebody wants to create a new market with tissue cultered plants. There is a scientific interest in these with or without the possibility of TC. In my opinion it is better having these new species in vitro and making them available to the public than never knowing that these species exist at all or being already destroyed. Regards Heiko PS:I think the idea opening up an archive dealing with TC is very good. This would provide the public with informations , so everybody can make his mind about the difficulties of TC and the Knowledge is not restricted to a small "elite" (Monopolists), if somebody should be afraid of this. ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:49:45 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff Hi Heiko, > > Dear Michael, > Nobody believes that "in vitro culture saves the rain forest". we are making progress! :-) > It is true that TC is a new propagation technique but not "just" a > technique. It gives the chance to save endangered plants in culture > (you mentioned the high turn-over-rates). This takes the pressure > by collecting from areas in the wild where these species naturally > occur (not the pressure by logging, this is another problem). > You are right saying that there are even in these days new undiscoverd (by 'new' I meant not readily available) > species out there in the jungle (i.e. the small areas left), but I > disagree if you claim these will be discovered and named because > somebody wants to create a new market with tissue cultered plants. No, but it is welcomed opportunity to be able to sell them overpriced in high numbers in a short time. That was my argument and in this there is no difference to "Victorian plant hunters" albeit with re- spect to the damage caused to the environment. > There is a scientific interest in these with or without the > possibility of TC. Undoubtedly! > In my opinion it is better having these new species in vitro and > making them available to the public than never knowing that these > species exist at all or being already destroyed. Sure, as more or less 'artificial' artifacts disembodied from their environment with no realistic hope ever to be reestablished. So, what is the value, anyway ? What is a species without its ecosystem. > > Regards > Heiko > > PS:I think the idea opening up an archive dealing with TC is very good. > This would provide the public with informations , so everybody can make > his mind about the difficulties of TC and the Knowledge is not restricted > to a small "elite" (Monopolists), if somebody should be afraid of this. For us hobbyists this is a great idea but please drop these exaggerated claims that we would save the world if we had a stock of tissue cultured CPs. Greeting from Finland, Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 07:14:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff It seems that if we are dealing with species and not hybrids where exact hybrid traits are wanted, tissue culture should be looked upon as, if not a last resort, then as less desirable. Seed is more work, especially in plants that are dioiceous like Nepenthes, but the genetic diversity is just as important in culture as it is in the wild. And who's to say that there will never be opportunities to reintroduce some of these species back into the wild? It is not the same as wild plants, but there is better chance of succeeding if we have the greatest amount of genetic material possible. I have been told by rose experts that many of the old varieties that have been reproduced by cloning over the years are destined to die out eventually; it is "tired" genetic material and it becomes less viable each time it is cloned. We are talking hundreds or more years (some roses varieties have been in cultivation since egyptian times) but the effects are becoming evident. We certainly want to make sure we don't put individual species into this position. >From my understanding, however, tissue culture, although it produces a high degree of uniformity, is not *completely* "fool-proof" in producing all clones; some degree of mutation does occur. I know of cases where tissue culture of a particular variegate form or color of a plant comes out with a certain small percentage reverting to non-variegated, or a different color flower. (I realize these numbers are extremely small though) ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:20:46 +0100 Subject: We can save the world (was RE: IN VITRO stuff) Michael, >(...) The names change (very fast). Some taxonomists do their best to slow down the speed a bit. >(...)In contrast to the past >people now run to the rain forrest collecting new species (naming them >thus creating a market and propagating them in their own monetary >interest believing in the need to environmentally -> tissue cultured >satisfy the demand). No. At least not the people I know. Of course, sometimes the interest in cps is not entirely scientific. But you must accept that at least some field exploration has helped to even *reduce* the number of names and taxonomic problems. >You know yourself that the genetic diversity is not preserved by tissue >culture. Genetic diversity is much less preserved by destruction of the natural habitats (which is in too many cases even sponsored by local governments!). Certainly, one clone is a poor representation of a species, but it is very much more than ZERO clones, isn't it? >So, tell me please, what do you do against the global warming, the war in >Chechnia, ... This is not really a satisfactory answer to the questions posed. >What does N.xxxx help us in the tube if the forrests are gone ? It is >hypocritical to say plant collectors do any good to the nature by ha- >ving the plants in their greenhouses. It is for their own fun. (...) >Sure, as more or less 'artificial' artifacts disembodied from their >environment with no realistic hope ever to be reestablished. So, what >is the value, anyway ? What is a species without its ecosystem. Again, one clone is much more than none! I do firmly believe in a high value of any living creature (especially if it is a cp ;-)), as it is a unique organism formed by millions of years of evolution. We probably won't be able to prevent destruction of the habitats (too many people *want* the destruction; v.s.), so let us at least try to prevent (admittedly, only a very tiny little bit of) extinction. Any extinct species (or other taxon) is a loss which cannot be compensated by any human effort (forget about "Jurassic Park", it doesn't work!). So every successful attempt at preserving even a limited set of individuals representing a taxon is an achievement. Nobody can solve all the problems globally, and at once, but I think ex situ conservation is a serious issue (irrespective of the technique used). (...) >For us hobbyists this is a great idea but please drop these exaggerated >claims that we would save the world if we had a stock of tissue cultured CPs. Maybe some future (wiser) race will rediscover the value of *biological* species living in the environment they were adapted to for millions of years (until _Homo "sapiens"_ - nomen illegitimum? - came to kill them within a few hundred years). These guys may prove grateful for some grains to sow... Kind regards Jan PS:>No, but it is welcomed opportunity to be able to sell them overpriced >in high numbers in a short time. Here is my tip of the day: If it's too much $$, you don't need to buy! I would *love* an ad like: "Liquidation sale because of space limitation. Buy 50 _Utricularia podadena_ and 50 _U.dimorphantha_ for five bucks, and get 50 _Pinguicula algida_ and 50 _Nepenthes rajah_ free!..." Where is your price limit (even if the stuff were from TC)? Sorry all you people who have read this stuff and not benefited from it. I really hate to waste bandwidth, but there are more than 2 recipients involved. ################### From: James Powell Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:27:27 -36803936 (EST) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff I believe that preserving an otherwise extinct species of plant in cultivation has a greater potential benefit to the world than preserving an otherwise extinct species of animal in a zoo. Plants (apparently) lack any learned behavior, so if we are able to successfully cultivate them in an artificial environment, then we have the information and genetic material necessary to possibly someday re-establish this plant in a recreated habitat. I do not believe that my own personal collection of plants ensures the survival of a species, but there is a chance that as a group, hobbyists and professional growers will maintain a genetically diverse collection of material. Tissue culture and a coordinated breeding program among growers would both be valuable tools. Where will environmental science lead in the next century? I believe it will lead to the study of ecosystems with an eye towards reverting clear cut areas which have been depleted of soil nutrients and eroded to their former state. The more species that have been preserved, the more likely this can be done. Perhaps nepenthes and other carnivorous species have a bigger role in such a plan than we can imagine since they do not require nutrient rich soil. I'm not usually an optimist, but I do not see how we can preserve the earth if we do not take this route... ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 18:03:48 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: We can save the world !!! > > Michael, > > >(...) The names change (very fast). > > Some taxonomists do their best to slow down the speed a bit. Your work is highly appreciate. It enables us to keep our collections complete and uptodate. :-) > >(...)In contrast to the past > >people now run to the rain forrest collecting new species (naming them > >thus creating a market and propagating them in their own monetary > >interest believing in the need to environmentally -> tissue cultured > >satisfy the demand). > > No. At least not the people I know. No offense intended. In the calvinistic belief I think everybody may try to turn his hobby into a profession. :-) > > Of course, sometimes the interest in cps is not entirely scientific. But > you must accept that at least some field exploration has helped to even > *reduce* the number of names and taxonomic problems. I accept! > > >You know yourself that the genetic diversity is not preserved by tissue > >culture. > > Genetic diversity is much less preserved by destruction of the natural > habitats (which is in too many cases even sponsored by local governments!). > Certainly, one clone is a poor representation of a species, but it is very > much more than ZERO clones, isn't it? getting mathematically, right ? Feeling at home with zeros and ones! :-) > > >So, tell me please, what do you do against the global warming, the war in > >Chechnia, ... > > This is not really a satisfactory answer to the questions posed. No, this is just the same kind of question, so try to answer my question! What I do against the deforrestation ? Wait, (thinking, ..., thinking, ...) yes, I am using a Green PC. :-) > > >What does N.xxxx help us in the tube if the forrests are gone ? It is > >hypocritical to say plant collectors do any good to the nature by ha- > >ving the plants in their greenhouses. It is for their own fun. > (...) > >Sure, as more or less 'artificial' artifacts disembodied from their > >environment with no realistic hope ever to be reestablished. So, what > >is the value, anyway ? What is a species without its ecosystem. > > Again, one clone is much more than none! I do firmly believe in a high > value of any living creature (especially if it is a cp ;-)), as it is a > unique organism formed by millions of years of evolution. Let's set up memorials for the dinosaurs. :-) > (...) > >For us hobbyists this is a great idea but please drop these > >exaggerated claims that we would save the world if we had a stock of > >tissue cultured CPs. > > > Maybe some future (wiser) race will rediscover the value of > *biological* species living in the environment they were adapted to > for millions of years (until _Homo "sapiens"_ - nomen illegitimum? - > came to kill them within a few hundred years). These guys may prove > grateful for some grains to sow... So, whatabout a tissue culture then (if they need seeds) ? :-) > > Kind regards > Jan > > PS:>No, but it is welcomed opportunity to be able to sell them overpriced > >in high numbers in a short time. > > Here is my tip of the day: If it's too much $$, you don't need to buy! Gracious lord! Who tought you the basics of a free market ? > > I would *love* an ad like: Yes, me too. Actually, I have to admit, I have never taken money for plants. Perhaps, I am the last hobbyist here. No, no, I don't need a hall of fame. :-) Yes, I swap/trade plants. > > "Liquidation sale because of space limitation. > Buy 50 _Utricularia podadena_ and 50 _U.dimorphantha_ for five bucks, > and get 50 _Pinguicula algida_ and 50 _Nepenthes rajah_ free!..." > > Where is your price limit (even if the stuff were from TC)? I would say rather low. Perhaps a few bucks plus porto expenses. Needless to say that I am not after N.speculatius subspecies Himalaya var Green subvar no_veins yellow flowers. :-) > > Sorry all you people who have read this stuff and not benefited from it. I > really hate to waste bandwidth, but there are more than 2 recipients > involved. 'involved' ?! This is not trial. I am sorry if there are still people outthere feeling emotionally personally involved/offended by my postings. :-) ..Michael ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 18:08:42 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff > Tissue culture and a coordinated breeding program among growers would both be > valuable tools. > (..) > Perhaps nepenthes and other carnivorous species have a bigger role > in such a plan than we can imagine since they do not require nutrient rich > soil. > > I'm not usually an optimist, but I do not see how we can preserve the earth > if we do not take this route... > and who takes care about all those plants which are less 'interesting'. I am mean it's soon time to enlargen our hoods for all these ferns, mosses, and other green life forms. Is our tissue culture fraction already working on it. Secret laboratories (not supported!) around! :-) ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: MWMINC@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:17:18 -0500 Subject: QUERY QUERY CP ################### From: "Brian Obrien" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 10:38:01 CST Subject: Re: We can save the world (was RE: IN VITRO stuff) Having followed this exchange for a while, I was considering sending a long post, but Jan Schlauer has pretty much summarized my viewpoint (below). I will add a couple of other items, though. I do not understand the implication that a species without its habitat is worthless (a contention which I have encountered in places other than this list). The logical conclusion to draw from such a claim is that preservation attempts are useless - we should simply give up attempts at preservation of _some_ of the biological diversity since all of the habitats probably won't be preserved. This would perhaps lead to a perversely satisfying(?) Pyrrhic victory for some, I suppose. Everyone with any knowledge of the biological world knows that habitat preservation is by far the best route to take, but why disparage efforts to preserve at least some fragments from habitats which are faced with extreme threats? I certainly do agree that one clone is infinitely better than NONE. In addition, it bothers me not at all for persons who are propagating rare plants to make some money from it, at least to offset some of the expense for materials, equipment, and time. I'm glad to see their talents used in such a manner. Perhaps free plants for all could be the goal within some horticultural Nirvana, but I don't think that we're particularly close to that situation at this point in history. With regard to tissue culture, at least it preserves the complete genome of one clone. Seed production from different clones is better, but once again, tissue culture is infinitely better than NOTHING. One drawback to seed production is the loss of variability through self-pollination (not a problem with dioecious plants like Nepenthes). For self-fertile plants, this might actually be inferior to tissue culture for conservation purposes. Brian On Mon, 9 Jan 1995 07:43:00 -0800, Jan Schlauer wrote: >Michael, > >>(...) The names change (very fast). > >Some taxonomists do their best to slow down the speed a bit. > >>(...)In contrast to the past >>people now run to the rain forrest collecting new species (naming them >>thus creating a market and propagating them in their own monetary >>interest believing in the need to environmentally -> tissue cultured >>satisfy the demand). > >No. At least not the people I know. > >Of course, sometimes the interest in cps is not entirely scientific. But >you must accept that at least some field exploration has helped to even >*reduce* the number of names and taxonomic problems. > >>You know yourself that the genetic diversity is not preserved by tissue >>culture. > >Genetic diversity is much less preserved by destruction of the natural >habitats (which is in too many cases even sponsored by local governments!). >Certainly, one clone is a poor representation of a species, but it is very >much more than ZERO clones, isn't it? > >>So, tell me please, what do you do against the global warming, the war in >>Chechnia, ... > >This is not really a satisfactory answer to the questions posed. > >>What does N.xxxx help us in the tube if the forrests are gone ? It is >>hypocritical to say plant collectors do any good to the nature by ha- >>ving the plants in their greenhouses. It is for their own fun. >(...) >>Sure, as more or less 'artificial' artifacts disembodied from their >>environment with no realistic hope ever to be reestablished. So, what >>is the value, anyway ? What is a species without its ecosystem. > >Again, one clone is much more than none! I do firmly believe in a high >value of any living creature (especially if it is a cp ;-)), as it is a >unique organism formed by millions of years of evolution. > >We probably won't be able to prevent destruction of the habitats (too many >people *want* the destruction; v.s.), so let us at least try to prevent >(admittedly, only a very tiny little bit of) extinction. > >Any extinct species (or other taxon) is a loss which cannot be compensated >by any human effort (forget about "Jurassic Park", it doesn't work!). So >every successful attempt at preserving even a limited set of individuals >representing a taxon is an achievement. Nobody can solve all the problems >globally, and at once, but I think ex situ conservation is a serious issue >(irrespective of the technique used). > >(...) >>For us hobbyists this is a great idea but please drop these exaggerated >>claims that we would save the world if we had a stock of tissue cultured CPs. > >Maybe some future (wiser) race will rediscover the value of *biological* >species living in the environment they were adapted to for millions of >years (until _Homo "sapiens"_ - nomen illegitimum? - came to kill them >within a few hundred years). These guys may prove grateful for some grains >to sow... > >Kind regards >Jan > >PS:>No, but it is welcomed opportunity to be able to sell them overpriced >>in high numbers in a short time. > >Here is my tip of the day: If it's too much $$, you don't need to buy! > >I would *love* an ad like: > >"Liquidation sale because of space limitation. >Buy 50 _Utricularia podadena_ and 50 _U.dimorphantha_ for five bucks, >and get 50 _Pinguicula algida_ and 50 _Nepenthes rajah_ free!..." > >Where is your price limit (even if the stuff were from TC)? > >Sorry all you people who have read this stuff and not benefited from it. I >really hate to waste bandwidth, but there are more than 2 recipients >involved. > > > > ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:57:14 -0500 Subject: Re: We can save the world (wa... Dear Andeas, We have all been greatly amused and have learned a great deal from this discussion. Please continue. We will all have questions enough when our seeds start to emerge. I see no resolution to the arguements other than in a whole different tack, and that is in education. Rainforest for most of us are unreal. So how many of you started this obsession at age 12 or yournger? Aren't you more aware of the problems of the rainforest for it? Don't exclude the educational resource from the process. The science of genetics is leaping forward in great strides. Who knows what will come of all this work. Since most of us cannot just pop off to Borneo for the weekend to collect seed, some of us are grateful that we can at least view the plants. OK, I haven't had my coffee yet, later Becky Michael- It is always a bad idea to point at someone else. Chances are you have no idea what this person is doing personally either for the rain forest, or Chechnea. ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 12:39 EST Subject: More tube talk > > > > > >What does N.xxxx help us in the tube if the forrests are gone ? It is > > >hypocritical to say plant collectors do any good to the nature by ha- > > >ving the plants in their greenhouses. It is for their own fun. > > (...) > > >Sure, as more or less 'artificial' artifacts disembodied from their > > >environment with no realistic hope ever to be reestablished. So, what > > >is the value, anyway ? What is a species without its ecosystem. > > Plant collecting (growing plants in a greenhouse) doesn't do nature any good, at least not directly. The grower purchases peat moss which was probably mined in Canada at the cost the destruction of many cp. The grower uses pots and heating/cooling. All of this taxes the environment to varying degrees. However, if a person is caught by the allure of cp or bird collecting, or herp collecting, or aquariums, this may very well lead to a greater appreciation for these organisms. Collecting may start as a kind of proprietary urge toward a big personal collection. But I think that continued exposure to the hobby will enlighten most hobbyists to the real plight of plants and their habitats. These collectors may grow to become real environmentalists! There is less likelyhood they'd be environmentally concious if they'd been immersed in collecting stamps or classic cars. Interesting plants such as the Cactaceae, Droseraceae, Nepenthaceae, Sarraceniaceae, may have been overcollected in the past (and may still be) But hobbyists now support their preservation and give them some "voice", even if that voice is ultimately drowned out by the bulldozers. Rare species in the Cyperaceae, Plantaginaceae, Phytolaccaceae, etc... may go extinct with few people noticing, and without representitives in cultivation. Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 12:43 EST Subject: Call for a tissue culture FAQ There has been a lot of discussion of tissue culture here, but I'm certain that not everyone on the list has a full understanding of it. Perhaps one of the experts could post a short informative description of the tissue culture process? Michael ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:29:17 -0700 Subject: Data requests and Orbs >bringing up a few issues that I thought needed to be addressed. I >think that what folks are doing with regards to in vitro Nepenthes is >good, but I think that for the novices on the list (and others) that >the TC folks should give us more data! And why aren't more of them >speaking out? Regarding requests for more data with plants, I second that! WHENEVER I have location data for a plant I save it jealously! Sometimes location information is critically useful in keying a plant. For example, I have been trying to cross-pollinate African clones of _U.livida_ with a Mexican clone (the range of _U.livida_ is very strange). For a genus like _Nepenthes_, information such as elevation, habit, and local conditions would be very useful---not only for the taxonomist but also the horticulturist. Regarding those Pings with orbs... >I checked them last night, and one appears to be forming a scape >separate from the "orbs", which have expanded in size. They're Other than leaves, the only normal thing to appear in the rosette center are flowers. Get ready to key them out! Use Don Schnell's book since they are almost certainly N.American plants, and probably _P.caerulea_ at that since that's what PPauls usually sells. Barry ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 13:00:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Data requests and Orbs > Other than leaves, the only normal thing to appear in the rosette center > are flowers. Get ready to key them out! Use Don Schnell's book since they > are almost certainly N.American plants, and probably _P.caerulea_ at that > since that's what PPauls usually sells. Based on the size, leaf shape, etc. on these, I figured that's what they were, but I didn't want to take a chance on IDing a ping with something more substantial. That leads me to another question, though. What sort of conditions does _P.caerulea_ require? I've been keeping them quite warm under fluorescent lights for most of the winter; I hope I haven't kept them from going into dormancy. Could these reddish leaf formations at the center be winter rosettes? ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 20:50:20 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: CP digest 215 Dear Ron, I have also the experience, that plants out of Vitro-cultivation still have a good portion of e.g. BAP in storage. BAP is a very stabile synthetic hormone compared to Kinetin, which is degraded much more quickly! Bye Joe N. ################### From: Alexander Salomon Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 14:42:34 EST Subject: MORE IN VITRO stuff The argument regarding tissue culture and the preservation of a species has been an enlightening one. I only hope that it can remain amicable and be car- ied out on a professional/scientific level rather than becoming overly per- sonal. Regardless of whether TC can save a species endangered by loss of hab- itat, it can help save species endangered by overcollecting. I think that the example of N. rajah is a good case in point. It exists in a so-called protect- ed habitat and is "protected by CITES restrictions. Because of its rarity, poachers are willing to risk a lot to obtain a specimen from the wild. So- called "collectors" are willing to pay a lot as well. By increasing the supply of the plant through tissue culture and other forms of propagation, the price should fall and demand for wild collected specimens may drop. With falling prices, the risks of poaching may eventually outweigh the possible rewards. Imagine if we had the potential to tissue culture ivory or rhino horn. These animals might still be threatened by loss of habitat but they would still be better off without a price on their heads. I think that with TC, we have an unbelievable chance to make a difference. I know Ron did a lot of work with VFTs in NC. I go to the grocery store and see VFTs of the disposable variety and see on a lot of tags that they were grown by TC. It's nice to know that each one of those specimens represents one less victim of the poacher. I'm not naive, but I do feel that any little contribution helps. If Andreas and Uwe want to make a little money too, thats perfectly fine. If they are successful enough, maybe their costs will go down and they will be able to increase production further. I wish them luck. -alex ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 21:30:43 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: In vitro Nepenthes and their respective data, etc. Dear Ron, I agree with you, that from single clones, which are In Vitro grown, we cannot save the genome, so we should try to save several clones and indicate it, to be sure, to beware all the different clones in cultivation and not end in just a single, maybe quickly growing clone. E.g. from N. ephippiata we have sown I think several dozens to some hundred clones from different plants (by the way, one plant can get an enormous amount of seed compared to other species). In it's original habitat I think there are growing several hundred, maybe about thousand plants, I don't know really, but the habitat is quite large and the population is very homogen; I just want to say, that it should be enough material now, to keep a good variability in cultivation, e.g. to get later on a new population in nature. I think, that the genome of several of the endangered species is quite homogen, just think at N. rajah or N. villosa, which propagate themself in nature mostly vegetative by rhizomes; just a tiny tiny percentage of the seed will get ever a mature plant. But I am sorry, I fear that we will not be able, to introduce culture grown plants back into natural habitats, because in some years you won't find anymore natural habitats of several species. It is sad, but just have a look to such regions like the limestone-mountains in E-Kalimantan: There have been a lot of interesting Nepenthes-habitats, but they have burnt down (nearly all of them) but they have been burnt down, before anybody could explore it's vegetation. But from Kew I have read a paper, where they mentioned, that they want to reintroduce Ex-Vitro N. pervillei back to their natural habitats. I do not know, how it has gone on, but I wish them much success. The same with D. regia, where in nature just two populations with less than 100 or 200 plants are known; here tries Thomas Carow to reintroduce some Ex-Vitro-plants to its natural habitat. In such cases it is a good thing and legitime, but please don't try to bring species to a totally different habitat; e.g. never introduce Nepenthes-populations in S-America; you will disturbe it's natural balance. Labelling: It is quite important, but as Andreas mentioned, the locality (mountains or sth. like that is enough). There are so many slightly different populations of one specie, which are for the knowledge of evolution of the species enormous important. So long Joe N. ################### From: EBGADM01@UCONNVM.UCONN.EDU (Clinton Morse - EEB Greenhouse Manager) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 15:35:38 -0400 Subject: re: TC thread Hello all, Firstly I am in favor of a CP FAQ regarding tissue culture and am frankly quite amazed to see so many 'hobbyists' with laminar hoods and all the related gear. I have not done any TC since I was in college but periodically think about trying ita again.. One question regarding the current thread though... Are most of you raising seedlings in vitro (similar to orchids) or are any of you doing asexual meristem culture? I noticed (and saved) the brief list of successful media combinations but it was not clear whether these were for seed or meristem cultures (maybe both?) Thanks for clearing this up for me... Clint... ---------------------------------------------- Clinton Morse - Greenhouse Manager Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology 75 North Eagleville Rd., Box U-42 University of Connecticut, Storrs CT 06269 E-Mail to: ebgadm01@uconnvm.uconn.edu WWW Server: http://florawww.eeb.uconn.edu/ ---------------------------------------------- ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 22:02:49 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff Hello Michael, I think we should stop now this crazy and childy discussion; but just some more comments: I and I think all of my friends don't grow their plants because of commercial interests, but because of our own pleasure; We like to see how our plants are growing and we like to find out new ways to propagate them, what was before impossible; it's like a drug. So, you are right, it is my own pleasure, if I grow my In Vitro-plants; if I would like to get rich, I would do another business, believe me; it's just hobby; and if somebody buys the plants for the black-market prices (I think I know what you mean; I think it cannot be myself, because yet I don't sell anything), it's also your own pleasure, nobody forces you to do it! They are no sunflowers, also in Vitro most of them need a quite long time to grow and to divide ...., so you can't expect huge plants of species, which have been before some years nearly unknown. I agree with you, that you never will conserve the specie and the habitat, but at least a by-product of the In Vitro propagation is to hinder that a lot of people reintroduce species in cultivation, just because they are not available to them. And now still one more last point: What's wrong, to give species a name, when they are still undescribed? It makes communication about species (which have a name now) much easier and hinder confusion like species xxx and everybody get it's own preliminary name for it! In the last years, e.g. most of the Nepenthes species have been described from herbar-material, so there shouldn't be commercial interest at it, you don't think so? Or can you tell me, where I can buy Nepenthes borneensis? O.k., but let's stop now our flames; peace Joe N. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 22:35:07 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: re: TC thread Dear Clinton, e.g. in tuberous Drosera and Heliamphora I have tried successfully to establish meristematic or let's better say living plant-material In Vitro; the same with e.g. Pinguicula and Sarracenia. But many people tried to establish Nepenthes from meristem, but just with few success, indeed there is a rumour, that some commercial laboratories should be able to do it, who knows! Anyway, at moment it looks like we still don't have a good method to establish Nepenthes from meristems. Joe N. On Mon, 9 Jan 1995, Clinton Morse - EEB Greenhouse Manager wrote: > Hello all, Firstly I am in favor of a CP FAQ regarding tissue culture and am > frankly quite amazed to see so many 'hobbyists' with laminar hoods and all > the related gear. I have not done any TC since I was in college but > periodically think about trying ita again.. > One question regarding the current thread though... Are most of you raising > seedlings in vitro (similar to orchids) or are any of you doing asexual > meristem culture? I noticed (and saved) the brief list of successful media > combinations but it was not clear whether these were for seed or meristem > cultures (maybe both?) Thanks for clearing this up for me... Clint... > ---------------------------------------------- > Clinton Morse - Greenhouse Manager > Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology > 75 North Eagleville Rd., Box U-42 > University of Connecticut, Storrs CT 06269 > E-Mail to: ebgadm01@uconnvm.uconn.edu > WWW Server: http://florawww.eeb.uconn.edu/ > ---------------------------------------------- > > ################### From: Michael Livingston Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 16:27:42 PST Subject: Hello and Sundews Hello everyone, I just subscribed here and want to both introduce myself and ask a question. I have held a passing fancy for carnivorous plants for some time now, sparked by an installment of "Nature" on PBS dedicated to the subject. I am particularly interested in sundews, they seem to be very elegant hunters. Anyway, my interest in sundews has come to the forefront lately for a very practical reason. I have just opened an office for my business and one or more of the gift plants I received had some fruit flys or some such creature on it and now I have TONS of them. Rather than fill the rooms with chemicals to eradicate the beasts I thought a couple of well placed sundews would be not only a better solution but a great excuse to learn more about the plants and their cousins. Can anyone tell me where I could locate one or more flavors of sundew at this chilly time of the year (I am in the North East), and I very much welcome advice regarding their care as well as good reading material, etc. Thanks! M ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 13:28:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: New Zealand CP I will be travelling to New Zealand in March/95. For the first 3 weeks I will be travelling around the North Island in a camper van. Does anyone have suggestions of good cp sites to visit and what I will find there. The last week I will be in Christchurch on the South Island and can only visit nearby sites briefly as I will be playing field hockey all day and partying most nights. Any requests? Thanks.-Pat ################### From: "Brian Obrien" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 16:36:53 CST Subject: tissue culture & seed questions With regard to Clinton Morse's question: >One question regarding the current thread though... Are most of you raising >seedlings in vitro (similar to orchids) or are any of you doing asexual >meristem culture? When `tissue culture' has been referred to in the recent posts, I have assumed that these were meristem cultures - but I've probably been predisposed to thinking that through orchid growing. If the cultures are not from meristems, which type of tissue is used, and which is the best, for various types of cp's? I am also curious as well about the possibility of in vitro raising of cp's from seed. Can any advantages be realized by doing this, compared to germination in ordinary media? Brian -- bobrien@gac.edu Brian A. O'Brien, Department of Chemistry, Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, Minnesota 56082 U.S.A. tel. (507)933-7310 fax (507)933-7041 ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 15:32:33 -0800 Subject: New Zealand CP > Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 13:28:00 -0800 (PST) > From: "Warrington, Pat" > To: carnivores contribute I will be travelling to New Zealand in March/95. For the first 3 weeks I will be travelling around the North Island in a camper van. Does anyone have suggestions of good cp sites to visit and what I will find there. The last week I will be in Christchurch on the South Island and can only visit nearby sites briefly as I will be playing field hockey all day and partying most nights. Any requests? Thanks.-Pat ################### From: Kyle Williams Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 15:44:53 -0800 (PST) Subject: Thanks (TC of Drosera) I would like to thank everyone who helped me out with information on tissue culturing Drosera. As I said in my first letter I'm an undergraduate student majoring in Ornamental Horticulture and this is my first TC class. Since the class just started last week I don't understand a lot of the information I got but fortunately my teacher looked it over for me and told me what to do. My hope is that by the end of the class I'll be able to give out the kind of information to others that you people have given me. Thanks again, Kyle Williams Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, Ca. P.S. I would still appreciate any other information anyone would have on this subject. ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:19:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff To Michael, and the others who are perpetuating this senseless diatrabe against the TC people here, you should observe that the vast majority of the users of this forum have been standing by patiently waiting for your petulance to end, but our patience is wearing thin. Your thinly disguised envy at not having these plants is clearly observable, like a massive chip on your shoulder. If we all take up a collection and buy you a N. Raja will you kindly cease this prattle? Cheers, Phil ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 08:50:26 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: We can save the world (wa... > > Dear Andeas, > We have all been greatly amused and have learned a great deal from this > discussion. > Please continue. We will all have questions enough when our seeds start to > emerge. > Becky > Michael- It is always a bad idea to point at someone else. Chances are you > have no idea what this person is doing personally either for the rain forest, > or Chechnea. > Becky, it was not me who asked the question "what did you do to save the rain forest". In return I asked "what do you do to save the world" for the same reasons you are blaming me. (yepp not actually blaming / do not find the right word this early). Bye. Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:25:26 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff > > To Michael, and the others who are perpetuating this senseless diatrabe > against the TC people here, you should observe that the vast majority of > the users of this forum have been standing by patiently waiting for your > petulance to end, but our patience is wearing thin. To Phil, if it bothers you just logout. :-) I am always astonished to find people who are not chicken enough to talk for themselves but have to declare themselves the leader of a large pack. You sound ridiculous. You do not bother to read my posts otherwise you would have noticed that my postings are not a crusade against people doing tissue culture but against their alleged belief (which proved to be wrong in the mean- while) to be the safers of the rainforests by doing this. Clear enough ? Again if you do not like this threat just move your butt to where you feel safe. Perhaps take your girlfriend out to cinema for a chance to get a grip on yourself again. :-) > > Your thinly disguised envy at not having these plants is clearly > observable, like a massive chip on your shoulder. > If we all take up a > collection and buy you a N. Raja will you kindly cease this prattle? You clearly unveil the limited categories of your mind: I do not want to blame you for it. It's your limited mind that disables you to track back the reasons and arguments behind my postings. If you see collecting plants as the only and utmost destination in life you probably won't find any better way to piss around here. Congratu- lations! > > Cheers, > Phil > Best wishes, Michael P.S.: For the future, you, and your vast majority of this group: Discover the unknown commands of your mail-reader, now! Use 'd' for delete. (for weenies only!) ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:39:52 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff > > > Hello Michael, Hi Joe, > > I think we should stop now this crazy and childy discussion; Can't be that crazy and childish that you bother to give some more comments. :-) > > but just some more comments: (...) I deleted them since we came quite close with our opinions during the last days. > > And now still one more last point: > What's wrong, to give species a name, when they are still undescribed? Nothing. That's your field of research. Just check out if you get a permission from Jan. (That could save some trouble in your research work.) :-) > peace > > Joe N. Peace! ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 09 Jan 1995 23:45:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Tissue Culture of Drosera > getting plant material sterile:Species like D. > binata or D. capensis often produce flower > stalks and it is easier getting these parts > sterile, because the tissue is not as soft as > leaves. When sterile planted, the stalks will > soon produce buds. If you start from flower stalks I d use the part of the stalks containing flower buds in order to have axilliary buds to start from. Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 00:47:00 +0200 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff > > Dear Michael, > > Nobody believes that "in vitro culture saves > > the rain forest". > we are making progress! :-) Who thinks/thought that in vitro culture saves the rain forest? > > species out there in the jungle (i.e. the > > small areas left), but I disagree if you > > claim these will be discovered and named > > because somebody wants to create a new market > > with tissue cultered plants. > No, but it is welcomed opportunity to be able > to sell them overpriced > in high numbers in a Where are these high numbers of plant buyers? > short time. That was my argument and in this > there is no difference to "Victorian plant > hunters" albeit with re- spect to the damage > caused to the environment. Who damages the environment? Through our travels Joachim, Heiko and myself never noticed that an ecosystem was dying because a fanatic Orchid or CP- lover had collected a few cpsules of seeds or in the more scientific case a few cuttings as herbarium specimens (type material). A non-commercial collection of seeds (and I regard the collection of some seeds as a start for in-vitro-propagation as non-commercial) can hardly do any damage to a population. > > There is a scientific interest in these with > > or without the possibility of TC. > > Undoubtedly! Well, Michael, I fear that "we re making progress";-) > > In my opinion it is better having these new > > species in vitro and making them available to > > the public than never knowing that these > > species exist at all or being already > > destroyed. > > Sure, as more or less 'artificial' artifacts > disembodied from their environment with no > realistic hope ever to be reestablished. So, > what is the value, anyway ? What is a species > without its ecosystem. A "cultivated" population can not replace the wild population but isn t human an "artificial artifact disembodied from their environment with no realistic hope ever to be reestablished" as well? All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 00:29:00 +0200 Subject: Re: CP digest 216 > albeit I doubt the potential of tissue culture > to preserve a species rather than to preserve > one particular gene-set, I believe this would > at least enforce competion. 'The right to > choose'. A _randomly_ chosen in vitro population of totally around 50 seedgrown clones of one local population of a species is better than nothing! And might soon reach the number of plants which are left in the wild if habitat destruction is not stopped. Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 01:31:00 +0200 Subject: Re: chimeras > This brings up an interesting question: if one > mixes cultures of male and female Nepenthes > tissues, or even of different species, is it > possible to produce a chimera possessing > tissues of both parents? Best to my knowledge, no one knows where the genes for the sex in Nepenthes are or how the sex is controlled at all. Also a chimera can only be produced if you create a more or less homogeneous mix of cells which means that you would need callus cultures. Unfortunately nobody I know has managed to achieve somatic embryogenesis (regeneration of plants from callus) in case of Nepenthes so far....but we re working on it.....:-) All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 00:58:00 +0200 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff DEar Bob, you wrote: > >From my understanding, however, tissue > >culture, although it produces a > high degree of uniformity, is not *completely* > "fool-proof" in producing all clones; some > degree of mutation does occur. Unfortunately that s true. However it s in the hand of the propagator to minimize this risk. In former times e.g. orchids were propagated in enormous amounts via callus culture. People did not realize that such a callus (in fact some kind of a plant-tumor) gives rise to some kind of micro-evolution on a cellular level. That means the fastest growing cells (often due to mutations!) have an advantage over slower (non mutated cells) and sooner or later overgrow the culture. The same happens in human cancer by the way, where cells collect mutations in a similar fashion. Modern propagation setups mostly do not go via callus but via axillar branching. This lowers the output of plants but dramatically reduces the danger of introducing mutations. Another means of keeping mutations low are slow growth cultures of stock material which is set aside and kept on minimal medium to keep growth (=> and mutation rate) as low as possible. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 01:42:00 +0200 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff Dear Michael, you wrote: > and who takes care about all those plants which > are less 'interesting'. I am mean it's soon > time to enlargen our hoods for all these ferns, > mosses, and other green life forms. Is our > tissue culture fraction already working on it. > Secret laboratories (not supported!) around! > :-) There are many people dealing with orchids, bromeliads, ferns,......, (in fact the CPers are a tiny minority among plant lovers) who all (can) do their part of the work. Nobody can play different games at the same time but everybody can help with the work he/she is best at. We ve chosen CP s. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 01:33:00 +0200 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff > I mind if things here get 'too commercial'. As I already mentioned I completely accept being blamed for having posted offers or even my price list in one case and will not do so again. > I > do not mind references to sources or people > offering their stuff for trade or sale. Parti- > cular, if astronomical 'black market' prices > are requested. Sorry, but though some people tried to explain you about the expenses you need to start a successful lab this seems to be beyond your understanding. As I mentioned a single laminar flow hood is as expensive as a car (believe it or not...). Your style of writing e.g. of black market prices is an insulting offence and it s beyond my understanding why you do this. I cannot remember having attacked you personally before you started _your_ "discussion" against some people including myself. Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 01:08:00 +0200 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff Dear James, you wrote: > I do not believe that my own personal > collection of plants ensures the survival of a > species, but there is a chance that as a group, > hobbyists and professional growers will > maintain a genetically diverse collection of > material. Tissue culture and a coordinated > breeding program among growers would both be > valuable tools. That s exactly what a worldwide group of enthusiasts like this could reach. Due to communication facilities such as internet a quick exchange of pollen ("Dating and Mating!" Tom, I very much like your suggestion in the latest issue of CPN!) is possible and a worldwide population of a particular species which is genetically refreshed by such means has a chance to survive at least as an image of the extinct wild population. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 01:28:00 +0200 Subject: Re: We can save the world (was RE: IN VITRO stuff) Dear Brian, you wrote: > In addition, it bothers me not at all for > persons who are propagating rare plants to make > some money from it, at least to offset some of > the expense for materials, equipment, and time. > I'm glad to see their talents used in such a > manner. Perhaps free plants for all could be > the goal within some horticultural Nirvana, but > I don't think that we're particularly close to > that situation at this point in history. We are not so far away indeed: Some years ago fanatic collectors paid thousands of $ to criminals who robbed N. rajah plants and others from the wild solely for sale. Best to my knowledge the first tissue cultured N. rajah plants came up selling around $ 200. Within a few years the prices dropped to around $ 40. Where is the limit? In Germany meanwhile you can find Nepenthes and Heliamphora plants in garden centers and with the time of a particular species in vitro the the propagators experience grows on how to propagate it best and most efficient. Nepenthes rajah in the garden center? I d be glad being able to propagate it that efficiently one day and getting a large scale order by a large nursery.... All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 02:01:00 +0200 Subject: Re: Internet marketing Dear Michael, you wrote: > I have got a slightly different opinion about > this: IMO if tiny tissue cultured plants are > sold for prices over say over $100 I strongly > believe something is wrong. I cannot believe that somebody ever forced you to buy a plant you regarded as too small or too expensive. As Joachim already mentioned before, tissue culture gear is very very expensive. You cannot buy it in the shop around the corner and you can hardly build it yourself. I would write my testament before running a hommade autoclave and I would not expose a important stock culture to the atmosphere of a hommade laminar flow hood. In Germany a laminar flow hood for example sells at prices which are in the dimension of a small unused car. I could not afford doing the whole tissue cultutre stuff without selling a plant. Further these "tiny tissue cultured plants" often took years of screening to find a way to propagate them at all. What about the cost for light, heating, media and so one? > Right, and from my experience these "great" > people are most of the time enthusiastic > hobbyists who *do not rob* their friends. Whom are you fighting against? Why? Do you think offending people by insulting them helps to underline your arguments? I do not. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 01:38:00 +0200 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff > seldom plant. Tissue culture is not the topic > here. It just shortens turn-around times, i.e. > the time until the species is readily > available. Thus, it is nothing more than a > production technique. That s wrong without any doubt: Tissue culture is the _only_ _way_ to propagate many plants at all! (believe it or not...) > The point I make is that people are not hunting > for N.rajah (because it is readily available) > but others. The names change (very fast). Still > the problem has the same features as earlier. > In contrast to the past people now run to the > rain forrest collecting new species (naming > them thus creating a market and propagating > them in their own monetary interest believing > in the need to environmentally -> tissue > cultured satisfy the demand). Rarely have I heared or read such a bunch of nonsense.... Sorry, that s not my usual style of writing but.... > You know yourself that the genetic diversity is > not preserved by tissue culture. You also know > the market value of newly introduced species. So? In the wild very likely less than 20 clones of N. clipeata exist anymore. Why aren t 20 tissue culture clones worth the effort. The "market value" you re talking about is an illusion. In your vision some persons make big money by selling millions of rare Nepenthes. But, where are the people who buy these enormous amounts of plants??? Nowhere! The market is so small that the "black market prices" (as you prefer to call them) would cover not much more than the investments and time for propagation and screening if you would seriously calculate. > What I accuse is the hypocracy to say "we are > doing tissue culture to save the rain forrest" > instead of saying "yes they have a market value > and that is why I am propagating them for my > own financial benefit". If this is in a > commercial scale the internet is the wrong > place to market it. I am not talking about > 'uncosts'. I am talking about plants little > tiny bastards (tissue cultured 2cm in height) > offered for $50 and more. This is not the > hobbyist propagating them in his/her hood > (during the time when other's are going out > with their girlfriends) for his/her fun but an > entrepreneur with the aim to make money. ??? > See above. You do not save the genetic > diversity by tissue culture of one (not even > two male/female) plant. Who is talking of one or two plants? Usually in case of more restricted or rare plants I and all the other tissue culture people I know try to keep around 10 clones which easily adds up to 50 or more well separated clones worldwide! This might unfortunately probably soon be more than the rest of clones which are left in the wild in some cases. > So, tell me please, what do you do against the > global warming, the war in Chechnia, ... What are you doing against it??? > What does N.xxxx help us in the tube if the > forrests are gone ? It is hypocritical to say > plant collectors do any good to the nature by > ha- ving the plants in their greenhouses. It is > for their own fun. What does the lack of N.xxxx help us if the forests are gone? Well, sit back and relax, watching the biodiversity fade away if you prefer the role of an observer. I for my case try to help at least the group of plants I love most and these are Nepenthes. All the best and _happy_ _observing_ Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:02:35 +0200 (EET) Subject: Paranoia > > > I mind if things here get 'too commercial'. > > As I already mentioned I completely accept being blamed for having posted > offers or even my price list in one case and will not do so again. You are paronoid to get offended by the above. Mind the 'if'. It is conditional. > > > I > > do not mind references to sources or people > > offering their stuff for trade or sale. Parti- > > cular, if astronomical 'black market' prices > > are requested. > > Sorry, but though some people tried to explain you about the expenses you > need to start a successful lab this seems to be beyond your understanding. > As I mentioned a single laminar flow hood is as expensive as a car > (believe it or not...). Your style of writing e.g. of black market prices > is an insulting offence and it s beyond my understanding why you do this. Paranoia: You may have high expenses. Granted. You plants may be expen- sive, perhaps justified. If you get insulted by "black market prices" please read "astronomical prices". If this is too strong please just read "high prices". It does not change my point. > I cannot remember having attacked you personally before you started _your_ > "discussion" against some people including myself. I do not remember to have you attacked personally. I made my statements very general with no intention to insult anybody. ..Michael ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:24:10 +0200 (EET) Subject: Stop it now! > > > seldom plant. Tissue culture is not the topic > > here. It just shortens turn-around times, i.e. > > the time until the species is readily > > available. Thus, it is nothing more than a > > production technique. > > That s wrong without any doubt: > Tissue culture is the _only_ _way_ to propagate many plants at all! > (believe it or not...) It is still a production technique. Is this whole stuff something touchy for your professional honour. Get realistic. Perhaps it is the only one. It is still a production technique. > > > The point I make is that people are not hunting > > for N.rajah (because it is readily available) > > but others. The names change (very fast). Still > > the problem has the same features as earlier. > > In contrast to the past people now run to the > > rain forrest collecting new species (naming > > them thus creating a market and propagating > > them in their own monetary interest believing > > in the need to environmentally -> tissue > > cultured satisfy the demand). > > Rarely have I heared or read such a bunch of nonsense.... > Sorry, that s not my usual style of writing but.... Admittedly, a bit far strechted. However, ... Make your point. There are rare species out there. There are people willing to pay a lot of money to get them. There are people willing/able to propagate them. Some of these people take a lot of money for them. My point is that these people should calm down a little to realize that what they are doing is aside saving the rain forest (you convinced me) is partially business (ok, you have to get your expenses back). I have no problem with you doing business. But, I would (<- mind the conjunctive here) mind if (<- conditional) this (<- no personal insult, Andreas) gets here too (<- it's ok at the current level for me) commercial. This is my point. Don't get paranoid about it. Thanks and bye, Michael P.S.: I suggest to continue this discussion by personal mail. IMO it gets too off-topic. My point is that aside the scien- tific value to have an extinct species in a green house there is *no* environmental benefit. We agree in the point that preservation must be done on the ecosystem level. Andreas, did you ever think about your eco-balance in pre- serving endangered N. species. Don't pose yourself as a saint. Be realistic it's your/our hobby/profession and we love it and in our dreams we save the rain forests... ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:34:22 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Internet marketing Dear Andreas, your absolutely unwilling to take position to my points. I strongly suggest you to further discuss this by private mail. You paranoia drives you absolutely crazy. Howoften do I have to say that I do not intend to offend/insult you ? However you seem to be very touchy and I assume you got up badly this morning. Take it easy! > > Dear Michael, > > you wrote: > > > I have got a slightly different opinion about > > this: IMO if tiny tissue cultured plants are > > sold for prices over say over $100 I strongly > > believe something is wrong. > > I cannot believe that somebody ever forced you to buy a plant you regarded > as too small or too expensive. How do you get the idea I feel that somebody forced me to buy over- priced plants. Crap talking! Again: Something is wrong (in my opinion) if plants are sold for say $100 for a bunch of cells. Many people disagree that is why there is a market and that is why people were hunting plants and animals in earlier times. Luckily we have tissue culture now. BTW: travelling to and collecting plants from nature is also quite expensive. (no offense intended) (stuff about expensive tissue culture deleted). > > > Right, and from my experience these "great" > > people are most of the time enthusiastic > > hobbyists who *do not rob* their friends. > > Whom are you fighting against? IMO: This is not a fight for me. Perhaps in your paranoia. > Why? What, why ? > Do you think offending people by insulting them helps to underline your > arguments? Where, when, whom ? ..Michael ################### From: Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 10:45:35 +0100 Subject: Discussions If you want to have a discussion could you please post one reply at the time and not ten. It clogs my mail and disturbs my mailprogram. It also takes some time to delete a mail (at least with my mailprogram). Thanks :-) Magnus Thor`n Plantecology, Department of Ecology, Lund University Ekologihuset, S-223 62 Lund, Sweden Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se "S{ll {r den som har till r{ttesn|re att man b|r nog t{nka efter f|re" ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:50:40 +0100 Subject: you want flames? Friends! > Your thinly disguised envy at not having these plants is clearly > observable, like a massive chip on your shoulder. > If we all take up a > collection and buy you a N. Raja will you kindly cease this prattle? (...) >You clearly unveil the limited categories of your mind: I do not >want to blame you for it. (...) >Rarely have I heared or read such a bunch of nonsense.... (...rest deleted for sake of politeness) Please, gentlemen. "O Freunde, nicht diese Worte!" At this point, I think it is time to praise our faithful far-northern correspondent Michael (H.) a bit for his contributions. I really appreciate your help with _P.villosa_ (which has made its way to California and Japan, already; well, this does not save the rain-forest either, but...), and _Euphrasia_ (and yes, I *am* happy I did not need to pay for it!). I do understand your attitudes towards free exchange, and I do share a lot of them. Unfortunately, some growers (especially those who have invested some time, $$, and efforts in propagation) are not content with the rather immaterial satisfaction of having helped a fellow enthusiast. But I fear we cannot change this in the near future (we should not wait for the wiser race; life is too short...). SUMMA: We may not agree completely, but we have still much more in common than some recent messages would reveal. Remember this is not flame_each_other_cp@opus.hpl.hp.com! On another subject: >Just check out if you get a permission from Jan. (That could save some >trouble in your research work.) :-) What do you think should I have to permit? This does not sound like liberty of research and science, does it? It is not my intention to cause trouble for anyone. Please tell me if I do. In this case, I will try to change it. (Yes, I have realized the ":-)") Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:15:26 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: you want flames? > > Friends! > I loved your post ! > > > >Just check out if you get a permission from Jan. (That could save > >some trouble in your research work.) :-) > > > What do you think should I have to permit? This does not sound like > liberty of research and science, does it? It is not my intention to > cause trouble for anyone. Please tell me if I do. In this case, I > will try to change it. (Yes, I have realized the ":-)") Nichts fuer ungut! I do not start a thread about ethics in science here. :-) > > Kind regards > Jan > Herewith, I declare to refrain from further post on this topic for the time being, i.e. I have lunch now. Happiness, love, and peace, Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: thacker@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 03:43:38 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: you want flames? Please stop this flame crap. I like this listserver, but I am going to unsubscribe real soon if all I get is this inane back and forth flaming. Sheesh, a couple weeks ago we all had the Christmas spirit, and the posts seemed informative and supportive of each other. Now it's all this terrible flaming crap that I delete without reading...now I seem to delete just about every message that appears. What happened to all the fun stuff...like that great trip to look for carnivores in SE Asia? C'mon, tell me about the carnivores you have seen or are growing, not about what a jerk another person on this list is. Don. ################### From: James Powell Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 08:35:46 -0500 Subject: N. rajah Well, if you want to hear about success with plants instead of flames, I have a Nepenthes rajah that I purchased last summer that is growing like a weed. For months, it would not produce a pitcher. Then last summer there was a long discussion about a product called superthrive. At first I was wary of over using it, but I got frustrated watching small pitchers form at the end of the leaves that never opened, so I cleaned my cool climate plant aquarium in my basement and replaced the somewhat stagnant water it contained with a mix of 5 drops of superthrive to a gallon of distilled water. Just as before, my plants stood in perhaps two centimeters of water. Within weeks I had one open pitcher and now I have three. I tried to feed a tiny fly to the first pitcher using a syringe. I put the fly on the rim, and squirted a small amount of water to push the fly in - well of course I washed the fly away and never succeeded in feeding the poor thing. The first pitcher now has a reddish-maroon color. The plant also now has two growth points. I figured I would have killed the plant by now but now I'm cautiously optimistic that I may be able to raise it to maturity someday. I remember the first time I saw a N. rajah in Kurata's book and wondered if I'd ever even see a real live plant, now I am watching week by week as this small, and to me unidentifiable plant I received last summer exhibits more and more of the characteristics of that plant I dreamed of seeing so long ago. Just my idea of fun... ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:30:07 +0200 (EET) Subject: Superthrive (was N. rajah) Hi, I noticed a similar effect. I just started to use it. However, some N.cuttings I had, were starting to grow vigorously afterwards. However, I am careful to attribute this to the use of superthrive. They might just have developed roots. However, nice to see them pitchering. Pekka: Interested ? ..Michael ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:21:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: posting price lists Andreas wrote: > As I already mentioned I completely accept being blamed for having posted > offers or even my price list in one case and will not do so again. As I told him privately, personally I think he should continue to post his offers, as should others. One of the primary reasons that commercial postings are frowned upon in newsgroups is because of the way the groups are distributed around the net to everyone. Commercial use of internet is in no way prohibited - look at the number of companies that use the net to distibute software to the customers or have ads out there on WEB pages, etc., etc..... **BUT** this is a mailing list, not a newgroup. We have all subscribed to the service and are here by choice. To my mind that means that we have the right to decide what's right and what's not (ignoring for the moment the fact that hpl is "donating" the services of their hardware for our listserver and WWW). If it wasn't for this this newgroup and the posts that people have made here, I wouln't have the collection of plants that I do now. In most cases, I haven't paid much more than for postage, but I have bought some plants for very reasonable prices too - something I could not have done locally (I have yet to find a single source of plants local to me) and buying mail order is a gamble I haven't gotten around to yet. And I will continue to do so in the future. Andreas (and others) - I can understand your unwillingness to post your lists of available plants to the general community, especially in light of the recent message exchange. I hope that you will at least send such lists to Rick so that they can be accessed through the listserver (and hopefully through the online service). I know that most of us are very interested in what you have to offer. Dave ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 16:21:18 +0100 Subject: New Pinguicula! Another new one has shown up! M.CHEEK (hi Martin! Congratulations on this one!), KEW BULL.49(4):813 (1994) COMMENT: _Pinguicula greenwoodii_ is described as new. It is related to _P.jackii_ (bilabiate corolla, without palate, membranous, monomorphic leaves), and it occurs in a "dripping, shaded limestone cliff in wet montane tropical forest, 1550 m alt., about 30 km from the sea" in "Oaxaca, Icatepec road, Mexico". It differs from _P.j._ by the much narrower corolla, and the longer and narrower spur. In this respect (long spur), another species comes to mind, viz. _P.imitatrix_ which also has been collected in Oaxaca, but this seems to differ in other details & in the habitat. Kind regards Jan ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:35:00 -0500 Subject: Re: We can save the world (wa... Michael And I am waterlogged this morning. No, it wasn't blame. I felt it was rude. Becky ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:46:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Internet marketing Andreas Well, some of us actually know people who do have home made microculture gear. An autoclave you will find in the kitchen, under pressure cooker. However, even with all the available parts, it will run a clever young man about $2000. Yeah, a used car. Then there is always the problem of space, because space is money too. While it is something you can set up in your kitchen, your significant others will not be amused. Becky ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:45:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Nepenthes and sell lists I appreciate the recent cease fire among discussants. The net is never good at imparting the writer's attitude, sometimes written words seem harsher than were intended. I would like to second the motion that sellers continue to post their sell, trade and give-away lists. I am very pleased to see these lists. For my own part, when I rarely have a few plants for give-away or sale I will post a notice to the group. On a final note, I haven't seen too much discussion about plants that were received from Andreas or Uwe. For my part, among the Nepenthes I received, all but one are alive and gaining size (albeit a few faster than others). The one Nepenthes that did not survive succumbed within a day or two of arriving and was noted by the seller. Mine are all planted in live sphagnum or the original shipping soil, and are under twin florescents in a closed terrarium. The planting medium is kept moist at all times with perhaps a quarter inch or so of water covering the bottom of the terrarium. I also use Superthrive according to label instructions. In my experience, Superthrive definitely helps. Other than that, Florida is cold. It went down to 45F last night and only up to about 70 today! I know, I know, not cold for you guys, but my blood is now about as thin as a tropical Nepenthes. :) Tom in Fl ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 12:54:00 +0200 Subject: Nepenthes pollen Hello all, Within the next weeks I will have fresh N. dubia pollen available. Anyone interested please contact me. Does anybody have fresh pollen available now? - _Very_ _soon_ I ll have N. glabrata and N. dentata x glabrata flowering (buth female). Any pollen is welcome, but I need it really very soon.. Pollen storage: I tried different methods without success so far. However in recent times I also did not have luck using fresh pollen:-( So I can hardly say what went wrong. However recently I received some hints on how to improve storage technique and I m willing to continue doing experiments. Any pollen is welcome. Of cause any resulting seeds will be shared. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 11:26:00 +0200 Subject: Re: tissue culture & seed questions Dear Clinton and Brian, you wrote: > >One question regarding the current thread > >though... Are most of you raising seedlings in > >vitro (similar to orchids) or are any of you > >doing asexual meristem culture? Yet, most of the plants are introduced into the test tube from seeds. It s possible to meristem Sarracenia but in case of Nepenthes that s quite a problem and I only succeeded once out of many trials. Other people I know have made similar experience. Problem is that the meristem-region is highly contaminated by bacteria and fungi in case of Nepenthes but you need to sterilize very gently as this soft tissue is so delicate. The compromise is often hard to find. > > When `tissue culture' has been referred to in > the recent posts, I have assumed that these > were meristem cultures - but I've probably been > predisposed to thinking that through orchid > growing. If the cultures are not from > meristems, which type of tissue is used, and > which is the best, for various types of cp's? In case of Drosera or Pinguicula which regenerate from non-meristematic tissue, leaves or other tissue (e.g. flower stalks in Drosera) can also be used. It would be phantastic if it would be possible to regenerate e.g. Nepenthes from leaf tissue some day... . Think about plants like N. clipeata or dubia being widely available.... . All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: "Walter Greenwood" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:07:20 EST5EDT Subject: Re: New Pinguicula! > COMMENT: _Pinguicula greenwoodii_ is described as new. ... > > Kind regards > Jan I most humbly and graciously accept this profound honor! ;-) Seriously now, I *am* a bit curious as to the origin of the name. Sincerely, Walter Greenwood P.S.: If anyone ever does name a new species after your's truly, I hope it will be a curvacious Nepenthes with a full, red peristome and really BIG jugs! ################### From: Manny Lorenzo Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:20:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: Inane Discussions Please, please carry on your discussions privately. They are neither interesting or meaningful. You are driving people like me away who are interested in the PLANTS and not all this mental self-abuse. Enough is enough... Manny Lorenzo Florida International University Division of Information Resource Management ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 11:16:21 -0600 (CST) Subject: CPN (Now that the shouting has died down...) I still haven't received my December issue of CPN. It has been published, right? I assume this is a postal service problem, but I'm not sure who to contact for the missing issue... --CW ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 18:19:43 +0100 Subject: Re: New Pinguicula! >(...)_P.imitatrix_ which also has been collected in Oaxaca Did this fool Jan really write Oaxaca? It was of course collected in Galeana! But Piedra Ancha is not too far from the Oaxaca border (cf. CASPERs map). Sorry for another inexcusable error. Jan ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 12:30 EST XSubject: Re: New Pinguicula! > > P.S.: If anyone ever does name a new species after your's truly, I > hope it will be a curvacious Nepenthes with a full, red peristome and > really BIG jugs! Um, I hope you are not anticipating trying any unlikely hybridization experiments... ;-) Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 12:34 EST Subject: N. rajah > > Well, if you want to hear about success with plants instead of flames, I hav > Nepenthes rajah that I purchased last summer that is growing like a weed. F > months, it would not produce a pitcher. Then last summer there was a long > discussion about a product called superthrive. At first I was wary of over > using it, but I got frustrated watching small pitchers form at the end of th > leaves that never opened, so I cleaned my cool climate plant aquarium in my > basement and replaced the somewhat stagnant water it contained with a mix of > drops of superthrive to a gallon of distilled water. Just as before, my pla > stood in perhaps two centimeters of water. > James, do you know if your N. rajah came from TC? Did you get it still in the tube or had it been grown ex tubo a priori caveat emptor? (when you say it was growing like a weed I figured it had got big enough to move up to jungle rats and capybara... but if it is still not able to take solid flys then it sounds small enough to be a TC job.) Michael ################### From: Koning@ecsuc.ctstateu.edu (Ross Koning) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:59:17 -0500 Subject: Bye for now When the fire's too hot, get out of the kitchen. Good advice. I have enough grief in my life and don't need to wade through more in email. Bye all for now till it cools down around here! ross Ross Koning Internet: Koning@ecsuc.ctstateu.edu Biology Department Phone: (203)-465-5327 Eastern CT State University Fax: (203)-465-5213 Willimantic, CT 06226 USA ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 17:31:09 +0000 Subject: Re: RE Ping Study Group +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Terry Do you have a current address for the Ping study group and, if so, do you know when they last published a bulletin? Thanks and regards Paul ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 17:51:40 +0000 Subject: Re: Introduction +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Magnus I only just read your mail! >Hello Everybody! >I have recently joined this list and are amazed >that there is such a huge interest in carnivorous >plants. My name is Magnus and I am a ph.d-student >in Plantecology in the Lund University in Sweden. >I work with Pinguicula alpina, P. villosa and P. >vulgaris in a subarctic environment (Abisko, >Sweden). The goal of my study is to describe >their resource use, investment in reproduction and >cost of reproduction. It's great to work with >Pinguicula, no stupid root system that gets in the >way and easy to fertilize just add a fly. >I have only done field experiment sofar but would >like to grow Pinguiculas in greenhouses in the >future. >Is there any books on growing Pinguiculas or >carnivorous plants in greenhouses? >I don't grow cp at home for the moment but will >start when I get time and a place to grow them. >See you >Magnus Thor`n >Department of Plantecology >Institute of Ecology >Lunds Univeristy >Ecology Building >S-223 62 Lund >Sweden I am very interested in Pinguicula and own the National Collection of Pinguicula in the UK. I have about 60 named species, forms, varieties, etc. and try to travel to coillect more. To my knowledge there are no books on Pinguicula. I am happy to let you know what I have learnt or to answer questions Equally, if you want particular plants I may be able to grow on spares so that I can mail them to you in warmer weather! I have been to Sweden (I have friends in Digital's Stockholm Office) and the Botanic Garden there has suggested it would fing P. villosa for me, but each time they try they apologise for failing! I have P. vulgaris but not the bicolor form. I do not have any Pings from named locations in Sweden. Obviously, if you have spare of any I would be interested in them in the future. However, my intention was to introduce myself and offer myself as a possible source of information and/or plants if it would be helpful to you. Regards Paul ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:06:23 -0700 Subject: Wisdom for the day >though. What sort of conditions does _P.caerulea_ require? I've been >keeping them quite warm under fluorescent lights for most of the >winter; I hope I haven't kept them from going into dormancy. Could >these reddish leaf formations at the center be winter rosettes? They are from the coastal plain of South Carolina. So they are looking for seasons, but not freezing conditions. During the winter my plants are exposed to temperatures about 30F colder than during the summer---that is they drop to around 40F at night. The growth slows, and the plant draws down slightly into the Sphagnum or sand. I suspect contractile roots. This species does not, however, form genuine winter rosettes. Look, wonder, and wait, I suppose. The highly esteemed CP grower Rob Maharajh once described this aspect of CPing as the ``Dreaded P-Word....patience.'' The inestimable Dr. Maharajh once told me, in reference to the high frequency with which a _D.binata_ clone he had sent would flower, ``Yep, that plant flowers faster than you can say _Drosera binata multifida extrema_!'' Such a man's suggestions should be heeded. Barry ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 17:04:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: strange G.repens behavior A while back I acquired what appears to be a relatively unusual species of Genlisea (I won't say who to protect them from a flood of requests). The plant is G.repens 'Auyan Tepui'. When I got it, the leaves were green and there appeared to be subsurface traps present. I planted it in a 2.5 inch shallow pot in 50/50 sand/peat and put it in a tray of water with some Utrics. The G.repens didn't do appear to do anything for a few weeks, but now something rather strange has happened. The leaves have turned deep marroon and the number of them has been reduced. Poking around in the medium didn't turn up any traps but I did find a few green leaves hidden just under the surface of the medium. The other plants around this one seem to be doing well (except for one pot of U.calycifida which has had nearly all the surface leaves die while it appears to be growing well underground). The person I got this division from hasn't seen this behavior before and suggested that I pose the question to the net...has anyone else run into this before? Any suggestions are quite welcome! Thanks! Dave ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 15:49:00 -0500 Subject: IN VITRO stuff AW>As I already mentioned I completely accept being blamed for having AW>posted offers or even my price list in one case and will not do so AW>again. Andreas, Please do not do as you state in this message. As a newbie CP'er I know how difficult it can be to find info and plant sources. This mail list is like an oasis in a vast wasteland of information about CPs. I can not speak for others on the list but I enjoy posts about who has what plants, etc. I do not have a collection with which to trade specimens against, and must rely on the offerings of other established collectors and growers. I think as long as posts are done in the proper spirit it is not a problem. Personally I don't think any of the posts about plants available on this list have been inappropriate. I think the problem is that money is a dirty word on the internet. I think any intelligent person can tell the difference between plant offerings and announcements and the sale of incense on the CP mail list. I am a biomedical researcher and grow various animal tissues in culture, and know of the expenses and time involved in maintiaining cultures, although I have no experience with plant TC. Keep up the good work, PERSEVERE! --- . POW 1.1 0043 . Powerline Offline reader for Windows - New Windows OLR ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:23:09 +0930 Subject: TC but on another note While tissue culture is such a hot subject.... Has anyone produced any plants by anther culture? I left out the "haploid" because I wasn't sure if CP's come in different ploidy levels besides diploid. Anyone set me straight? Cheers Terry ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 10 Jan 1995 17:16:00 +0100 Subject: apology and my paranoia My paranoia: Dear Michael, you wrote: > You paranoia drives you absolutely crazy. > Howoften do I have to say that I do not intend > to offend/insult you ? > However you seem to be very touchy and I assume > you got up badly this morning. Take it easy! > IMO: This is not a fight for me. Perhaps in > your paranoia. Well, that s exactly the style (_and_ _for_ _my_ _touchy_ _taste_ _you_ _also_ _insulted_ _Phil_ _Wight_) of writing which I regard as an insult. Maybe I am touchy but this is a style of manners I m not used to at all and which I can hardly accept. Your choice of vocabulary in your reply to Phil s comment speaks for itself but not for you. Just for your information: Paranoia is currently dealt with as a special case of schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is known as a serious inheritable disease..... Well, maybe I m too touchy.... Apology: Hello all, Sorry to all of you who were bothered by this stupid flamewar which I seem to have started by making a plant offer on this list and which I feel at least being partly responsible for. May I get tortured if ever putting a plant offer into this list again. I tried to explain my points of view and noticed too late that it was not water but oil which I was pouring into a fire. For my case I m not willing to continue the whole "discussion" neither on this list, nor by private mails as it seems to be fruitless. I m glad that I was not the only person who regarded some statements which were made as insults and that I was not at all alone with my views. This gives me hope of not being paranoid;-) I m especially glad that at least a few little productive side discussions arose from the big rest of useless waste of internet resources. My last words in this matter: All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:49:14 +0930 Subject: RE: Ping Study Group Hi Paul, >Do you have a current address for the Ping study group and, if >so, do you know when they last published a bulletin? Yes I do, but it is at home and I am at work (much prefer if it was the other way around). Will post the said address to you tomorrow. The last bulletin was No. 5 I think and I got it about 2 months ago. Cheers Terry ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 17:30:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: apology and my paranoia A suggestion: Might it be a good idea to take such stuff to private email? I have no business telling anyone what to think of someone else, and how to behave in private, so do what you want in private. But the cp group is *really* not the place for private insult battles / flamewars / snarkfests, and I am truly uninterested in reading it here. I don't care about these disagreements or if someone meant to insult or not, or if someone is paranoid. It is *not* my battle, it is not the battle of most of us, and it really shouldn't be broadcast all over the world. ============================================================================== | Bob Beer | "A troubled mind is a trouble maker." | | bbeer@u.washington.edu | - Edna St. Vincent Millay | ============================================================================== ################### From: "Robert L. Briggs" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 20:27:53 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Discussions Once Upon a time, there was a Carnivorous plant newslist where anyone could go to find interesting conversations and to learn about their favorite hobby... ============================= Robert L. Briggs rbriggs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ============================= ################### From: Alexander Salomon Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 22:22:03 EST Subject: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress I recently had an accident with my large Nepenthes/Orchid case with a large pane of glass breaking. I quickly transferred all of the Nepenthes and orchids to my older tanks and repaired the glass by replacing it with a new pane-actual -ly plexiglass this time around. I used Dow Corning Silicone sealant to glaze the new piece in. I allowed the sealant to dry and later transferred the plants back to the case. There was little loss of humidity as I made sure to jack up the humidity level. 24 hours later, the plants were fine. 48 hours later, how- ever, I noticed that on 4 of the plants, the leaves were becoming a light brown to orange color-First from the outer parts and moving toward the center. It was primarily older leaves that were affected. The pitchers on these leaves appear to be fine. Is it the sealant vapors that has caused this problem? Or are the plants suffering some kind of shock from the transfer. In any case, I have removed all of the affected plants from the case. Of note is that no Orchids(Paphs and Phals), no Sarracenia (I keep very few in the case anyway) and several other Nepenthes remain unaffected. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I suspect it is the noxious vapors-does anyone have experience wit h this problem? While there were several casualties, hopefully all will pull through ok. any help is appreciated. -alex ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 23:46:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: We can save the world (was RE: IN VITRO stuff) Hi, Jan, _Homo "sapiens"_ - nomen illegitimum? You're absolutely right, I propose the name be changed to Homo sap;-) Happy trapping, Chelsie ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:19:08 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress According to Alexander Salomon: > >was primarily older leaves that were affected. The pitchers on these leaves >appear to be fine. Is it the sealant vapors that has caused this problem? If it was the normal silicone sealant then the by-product given off during curing it acetic acid. Personally I would not think the concentration would be that high but maybe the acid got concentrated in some water droplets. BTW you can get a different silicone sealant which does not release acetic acid when it cures. I cannot remember what they call it but it is used in the electronics industry where corrosion may be a problem. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Aha! Pronoun problems. It's not `shoot you, shoot you', it's `shoot me, shoot me'. So, go ahead, shoot ME, shoot ME ... You're Despicable" -- Daffy Duck ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:28:13 +0930 Subject: re Mayday Nepenthes in distress Alex, >I recently had an accident with my large Nepenthes/Orchid case with a >large pane of glass breaking. I quickly transferred all of the >Nepenthes and orchids to my older tanks and repaired the glass by >replacing it with a new pane-actual -ly plexiglass this time around. I >used Dow Corning Silicone sealant to glaze the new piece in. I allowed >the sealant to dry and later transferred the plants > back to the case. There was little loss of humidity as I made sure to > jack up the humidity level. >24 hours later, the plants were fine. 48 hours later, how- ever, I >noticed that on 4 of the plants, the leaves were becoming a light brown >to orange color-First from the outer parts and moving toward the >center. It was primarily older >leaves that were affected. The pitchers on these leaves appear to be >fine. Is it the sealant vapors that has caused this problem? Or are >the plants suffering some kind of shock from the transfer. In any >case, > I have removed all of the affected plants from the case. Of note is > that no >Orchids(Paphs and Phals), no Sarracenia (I keep very few in the case >anyway) and several other Nepenthes remain unaffected. Does anyone >have any ideas or suggestions? I suspect it is the noxious vapors-does >anyone have experience wit h this problem? While there were several >casualties, hopefully all will pull through ok. any help is >appreciated. While silicone sealant is curing I believe it produces acetic acid. With the moisture in your terrarium everything is probably getting a bit acidic. Let the sealant dry and then put some water in the tank for a bit. Most of the by products should be water soluable and washing the tank out a few time after this, should get rid of most of it. Cheers Terry P.S. Fish don't like it either. ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 00:17:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: New Zealand CP Yes, Pat. Please take me with you;-) Have a wonderful time, Chelsie On Mon, 9 Jan 1995, Warrington, Pat wrote: > I will be travelling to New Zealand in March/95. For the first 3 > weeks I will be travelling around the North Island in a camper van. > Does anyone have suggestions of good cp sites to visit and what I will > find there. The last week I will be in Christchurch on the South > Island and can only visit nearby sites briefly as I will be playing > field hockey all day and partying most nights. Any requests? > Thanks.-Pat > ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 00:21:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress My guess is that the browning of the leaves is due to a extreme humidity shift. Nepenthes are extremely sensitive to humidity shifts of more than 10% in several minutes, I have found. They can adjust to most any humidity given enough time, but need weeks to do it. When the glass broke, the plants were subjected to a much lower humidity than they were used to. Furthermore, when they were put back in to their new home, they probably underwent another humidity shift. Unfortunately, their is nothing that I know of to remedy the situation now that the damage has been done. At the time of the accident, I would have suggested immediately spraying the leaves with "Wilt-Pruf" or some other form of wax coating designed to keep the leaves turgid. Unless you are doing it already, you might want to hit the plants with a stong solution of Superthrive (about 1/4 teaspoon per gallon). This will lessen the stress the plants are going through. Of course, the hypothesis that the fumes from the caulking are the culprit is legitimate. But I don't have any experience with such stuff. Chris ################### From: John Taylor Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 15:24:42 +1100 Subject: Re: New Pinguicula! I've a few basic (layman's) questions about new species and Pinguicula species. How different does a plant have to be to be designated as a new form/species? For instance, I can see obvious similarities between P. "Pico de Orizaba" and other P. moranensis forms (the flower shape and markings for instance) yet this plant has a glabrous scape whereas P. moranensis doesn't (from what I've seen). Is there a kind of point score system? I have a plant labelled as P. caudata which has P. moranensis characteristics. There is a reference in Jan's list which lists it as being P. macrophylla. >From what I remember from Slack's first book, P. caudata has a large rosette of leaves. My plant on the other hand is only a few inches across at most with *very* pronounced leaf-edge rolls and has somewhat rosy pink flowers. Is my plant likely to be a P. moranensis var. caudata, P. macrophylla or is it totally mislabelled? I've just picked up a new Ping hybrid - P. (morrii x ehlersae) x grandiflora. I can't find any mention of a P. morrii in my literature - is this another Mexican Ping? This plant has the most leaves I've ever seen on a Ping. (I count about 30 visible live leaves, including "buds" at the moment!) and I've high hopes that the flowers will be quite impressive. Given that one parent is "evergreen" and the other resting-bud forming, what should I expect this plant to do come winter? BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ / ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 01:09:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hello again Hello All, I have been quite busy and havn't had time to follow the immense amount of new mail from this newsgroup. But I am very happy to see all of the new activity. If all of you will remember, I have been running an on-going experiment for several years to find Nenepthes that could handle a household environment. I define a houshold environment as humidity levels between 10 and 40 percent tempretures between 60 and 80 degrees (with radical shifts in tempreture) window with a southern exposure I had a few suggestions from several members. Those suggestions were: N.mirabilis N.maxima Not surprisingly, the N.mirabilis (average Thai variety) grew like a weed. In fact, it was difficult to find a setting in which it would not thrive. the one drawback to this plant is that it needed to be constantly wet. If it was at all dry, it tended to wilt. The N.maxima is also doing quite well. It is not growing as quickly as the N.mirabilis, but I think that may simply be in the genes. I am not ready to claim that this plant was a success, but it is faring well. Another plant which I have tried is N.fusca. I have found this to be most suited to being a housplant. It takes severe drying out without wilting or even complaining much. It has been pitchering nicely for me under extreme duress. It has turned out to be the most graceful of all my experiments. A few failures are: N.gracillis edwardsiana My next victim will be a N.rafflesiana. I am simply waiting for one of my plants to get get big enough for a cutting. All of the plants were planted in 2 part long fiber sphagnum 2 part silica sand 2 part peat moss 1 part chunk charcoal 1 part orchid bark I used a meter to determine if they were dry. the needle on this meter went from 1 to 8, 8 meaning being able to squeeze a significant amount of water out. I watered when the needle hit 4. I did use Superthrive, but probably should not have. Finally, I know there has been some bizarre discussion about not discussing plant material for sale. I would like to put my 2 cents in by saying: "Phooey!" It is my opion that one of the goals of this group should be spreading around as much material as possible. These plants are disapearing quickly in the wild. We, being conscientious collectors, should make it our responsibility to keep the population of plants in captivity as genetically healthy and as plentiful as possible. With that in mind, I am getting ready to whack back my plants. I plan on keeping a few cutting for my experiments, but I don't have room for them all. So if you want cuttings of the following plants and are willing to pay for postage, they can be yours. The cuttings will be from: N.mirabilis (Thai variety) N.ventricosa (a very nice specimen) N.alata (also, a nice specimen) I plan on doing the deed in February or March, depending on the weather. So if you want some of the cuttings, respond between now and then. Chris ################### From: Gary Habeeb Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 23:02:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Internet marketing Dear Andreas, your absolutely unwilling to take position to my points. I strongly suggest you to further discuss this by private mail. Finally - it took you long enough to figure out no one else is interested. ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:57:23 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress > > My guess is that the browning of the leaves is due to a extreme humidity > shift. Nepenthes are extremely sensitive to humidity shifts of more than > 10% in several minutes, I have found. They can adjust to most any humidity > given enough time, but need weeks to do it. As for my experience. Nepenthes (at least some them) can stand rather low humidities during day time as long as are sprayed once per day. In fact it seems to make them stronger if the humidity is not all the time above 80%. Don't know above sudden changes, though. I would assume that only sudden a drop in humidity would cause problems. Pekka grows his Nepenthes totally unprocted, right ? ..Michael > > When the glass broke, the plants were subjected to a much lower humidity than > they were used to. Furthermore, when they were put back in to their new home, > they probably underwent another humidity shift. > [...] > Chris > ------stop reading here------------------------------------------------ As for Andreas: (I think I can proceed in German as nobody else seems to be interested in this at latest now absolutely off-topic and meaningless discussion. Perhaps he gets a clue now.) Es ist ein Zeichen Deiner absoluten Ignoranz, mich voellig aus dem Kontext heraus zu zitieren und zwar nicht um der Sache willen sondern einfach und allein um hier in dieser Verteilerliste herumzupissen. Wenn wer auch immer mich so angeht, wie es Phil Dingsbums getan hat, dann steht es mir ja wohl zu, in entsprechender Weise zu reagieren. Das habe ich getan. "So wie man in den Wald ruft, schallt es heraus." Es ist ebenso ein Zeichen Deiner verwirrten Existenz, Diskussion "gewinnen" zu wollen. Deine Motive sind mir absolut unklar. Vielleicht geht es Dir letztlich nur darum, einen verklaerten Berufsethos zu verteidigen mit dem Du Dich identifizierst und den Du im Laufe der Diskussion an- gegriffen gefuehlt hast. Wenn das so ist, bewundere ich Dich um Dein Sendungsbewustsein und bemitleide Dich, um Deinen eingeschraenkten Ho- rizont. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:47:08 +0200 (EET) Subject: P.vulgaris "white" and P.vulgaris x alpina Hi, I have some time ago P.vulgaris "white" and P.vulgaris x alpina exists. Are they already in (tissue) culture ? ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:12:47 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: TC but on another note > > While tissue culture is such a hot subject.... > > Has anyone produced any plants by anther culture? I left out the > "haploid" because I wasn't sure if CP's come in different ploidy > levels besides diploid. Anyone set me straight? > > Cheers > Terry > I have to check my files but I recall (I might be wrong though) that P.vulgaris exists in different ploidies (sp?). The geographically more nothern ones (Scandinavia) have a bigger chromosome set than the more souther ones (Alps). I have to check the literature though. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 21:17:53 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff According to Greg Long: > >As a newbie CP'er I know >how difficult it can be to find info and plant sources. This mail list >is like an oasis in a vast wasteland of information about CPs. I can >not speak for others on the list but I enjoy posts about who has what >plants, etc. I second this. The number of outlets and variety of plants I have access to is very limited. I would love to find more places to get CP from. Perhaps what we need is an "infomercial" page in the WWW page so that people who want to buy plants can browse this. Anyone interested in buying plants could be pointed at the WWW page. > I do not have a collection with which to trade specimens >against, and must rely on the offerings of other established collectors >and growers. In my experience this is always a problem. New collectors cannot offer very much in terms of a trade so unless someone sells the plants then it is very difficult to build a collection. Seed is one way but most new growers need to get a bit of confidence with an established plant before taking on raising a batch of delicate seedlings. Established collectors giving away plants is another but there is only so much one can do especially if you suspect that some people may be sticking their hand out because the plant is free. When I read about the pros/cons of selling vs trading my mind was taken back to a conversation I had with another collector. This collector was commenting that the display of pygmy drosera at a show was not very good and that he "had much better at home" - for a start I was disappointed that the collector (a member of the society holding the show) did not bring any plants along. He then went on to say that he had many of the same plants which lead me to ask why he did not have some on the trading table, "oh no, I don't sell my plants. I only trade" was his reply. I knew that this guy had been collecting for a long time and there was not much that he would be interested in. So where does that leave the beginners? With nothing, basically. Trading plants is fine but it only really works well between "peers" that is people that have collections that are complementary. People that are starting out need to have some access to plants. Being able to buy plants is very popular as the trading table at some shows I have been involved in clearly shows. The most gratifying bit is to have someone come back the next year and tell you the plant they bought is doing well and they are back for some different plants. Oh, and so this is not 100% pure rant :-) I have a problem that I was wondering if anyone can help me with. The problem is weeds. I have a couple of varieties that seem to be endemic in my collection and no matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of them! One weed is, I believe, called liverwort - it is a thick green leaf that sits on the top of the peat, the underside is a mat of fine roots. Ripping this up is fruitless as it's very difficult to get it all out but if I leave it there the rotten stuff starts choking my CP. About the best I have come up with is to bury the weed under some peat which it seems it cannot cope with. The other weed I do not know the name of. It is a rosette of thin stalks with small spiky leaves arranged in bunches up the stalk, mostly decumbent up rises up at the end of the stalk where the flower/seed head is borne. This weed has very long fine roots and will quickly take over a pot crowding out the CP (and I suspect it does something to the peat making it unsuitable for CP). The best treatment for this weed I have found is repotting and then followup by ripping our the young plantlets that come up. Unfortunately if I don't do this very regularly the weed gets to the point where I cannot do this. Anyone got any good ideas about how I can cope with these pests? BTW most of my plants are either in peat or peat/sand/whatever mix if this makes a difference. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:41:17 +0100 Subject: Re: New Pinguicula! John, >How different does a plant have to be to be designated as a new form/species? Good question. There are approximately 10 different (well, the meta-taxonomists still debate if the 11th attempt is really different...) attempts at answering this, but unfortunately it seems neither of which can avoid some tautology ("two species are different from each other if -and only if- they are different species"). >For instance, I can see obvious similarities between P. "Pico de Orizaba" and >other P. moranensis forms (the flower shape and markings for instance) yet >this plant has a glabrous scape whereas P. moranensis doesn't (from what >I've seen). Is there a kind of point score system? No. >I have a plant labelled as P. caudata which has P. moranensis >characteristics. There is a reference in Jan's list which lists it as >being P. macrophylla. The reference you mean is P.caudata sensu HEMSLEY (non SCHLECHT.). This was a single misconception in the literature. It has nothing to do with the P.caudata in the horticultural trade (P.caudata SCHLECHT.), which is considered conspecific with _P.moranensis_. _P.macrophylla_ is a completely different plant ("summer" leaves with distinct petioles marginally with long hairs!), and very rare in cultivation (easy to kill). >From what I remember from Slack's first book, P. caudata has a large rosette >of leaves. My plant on the other hand is only a few inches across at most >with *very* pronounced leaf-edge rolls and has somewhat rosy pink flowers. Are the corolla lobes cuneate? >Is my plant likely to be a P. moranensis var. caudata, P. macrophylla or is >it totally mislabelled? It is probably a member of sect.Orcheosanthus (the "enfant terrible" in the genus). >I've just picked up a new Ping hybrid - P. (morrii x ehlersae) x grandiflora. >I can't find any mention of a P. morrii in my literature - is this another >Mexican Ping? I have never seen this name before. Where did you pick it up? > This plant has the most leaves I've ever seen on a Ping. (I >count about 30 visible live leaves, including "buds" at the moment!) These come from _P.ehlersiae_. Kind regards Jan ################### From: James Powell Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 06:26:54 -36803936 (EST) Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress It may be a long shot but I lost a nepenthes plant when I moved a couple of years ago in a moving accident. I didn't damage the container but shook it up pretty badly. It turns out that separated the plant from its roots, and it died fairly quickly. I hope that's not what happened to yours. ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:42:35 +0100 Subject: ploidy Terry, >Has anyone produced any plants by anther culture? I left out the >"haploid" because I wasn't sure if CP's come in different ploidy >levels besides diploid. Anyone set me straight? There are some polyploid series in _Pinguicula_, e.g. x=8: 2x=2n=16 _P.corsica_ 4x=2n=32 _P.grandiflora_/_P.longifolia_/_P.balcanica_/_P.leptoceras_ etc. 8x=2n=64 _P.vulgaris_ BTW: Michael, do you have a reference for _P.vulgaris_ with 2n= other than 64? In the collective species _P.crystallina_ (incl. _P.hirtiflora_), individuals with 2n=24, 32, and 48 have been found (without morphological or geographic correlation to chromosome numbers). The strangest cp known in this respect is _Drosera lanata_ with 19 somatic chromosomes (hypertriploid 3x + 1, with x=6, which is the usual basic number in the _D.petiolaris_ complex). Meiosis must be funny (or omitted at all) in this species, as it obviously does form viable seed (by apomixis?). To answer your initial question: I do not know of any attempt at anther culture in cp (OK, this is not really an answer). Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 13:14:56 +0200 (EET) Subject: liverwort > > According to Greg Long: > > > >As a newbie CP'er I know > >how difficult it can be to find info and plant sources. This mail list > >is like an oasis in a vast wasteland of information about CPs. I can > >not speak for others on the list but I enjoy posts about who has what > >plants, etc. > > I second this. The number of outlets and variety of plants I have > access to is very limited. I would love to find more places to get CP > from. > > Perhaps what we need is an "infomercial" page in the WWW page so that > people who want to buy plants can browse this. Anyone interested in > buying plants could be pointed at the WWW page. or do put this list on the ftp server (for those who do not have access to WWW). I think lack of light supports growth of liverwort. You may also try to cover your pots with pure sand. At least this helps against algae and moss (to some extent). ..Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 08:40 EST Subject: Traders > When I read about the pros/cons of selling vs trading my mind was > taken back to a conversation I had with another collector. This > collector was commenting that the display of pygmy drosera at a show > was not very good and that he "had much better at home" - for a start > I was disappointed that the collector (a member of the society holding > the show) did not bring any plants along. He then went on to say that > he had many of the same plants which lead me to ask why he did not > have some on the trading table, "oh no, I don't sell my plants. I > only trade" was his reply. I knew that this guy had been collecting > for a long time and there was not much that he would be interested in. > So where does that leave the beginners? With nothing, basically. Getting to conventions is sometimes rather hard for us traders, since it is difficult to get there by canoe. Also, the exchange rate has taken a bad turn since beaver pelts are no longer legal tender. :-) > Oh, and so this is not 100% pure rant :-) I have a problem that I was > wondering if anyone can help me with. The problem is weeds. I have a > couple of varieties that seem to be endemic in my collection and no > matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of them! One weed is, I > believe, called liverwort - it is a thick green leaf that sits on the > top of the peat, the underside is a mat of fine roots. Ripping this > up is fruitless as it's very difficult to get it all out but if I Don't kill it! Liverwort is another kind of carnivorous plant. Usually it grows on the surface of water. Check out the movie "Creepshow II" for some great documentarry footage of the predatory habits of the liverwort _Riccia homoconsumis_! :-) Michael ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:58:39 -0500 Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress > I recently had an accident with my large Nepenthes/Orchid case with a large > pane of glass breaking. I ...repaired the glass by replacing it with a new pane-actually plexiglass this time around. I used Dow Corning Silicone sealant to glaze > the new piece in. I allowed the sealant to dry and later transferred the plants back to the case. There was little loss of humidity ....... -alex > Alex: I use silicone quite a bit around my house for plants and otherwise, and the vapors I would definitely consider harmful. You didn't mention how long you let the silicone cure, but I would suggest a week or more. (Instructions say about 24 hours I think.) In an enclosed space even a little residual vapor would probably affect your plants. I recently worked with silicone and for the first time, due to weather, humidity, or who knows what, the silicone took several days to harden - obviously leaking vapors the whole time. As for humidity, in my experience terrarium grown Nepenthes (even in large cases) come to depend on the super-saturated humidity, taking them out for an hour or so doesn't generally seem to affect them, but with longer periods the leaves and new traps desiccate. If it is simply a humidity problem I would think they will recover. On the good side, I used to use hand made glass/silicone terrariums for my Neps. and found them to be a good approach for lack of money, space, etc situations. Still use them for new Neps, cuttings, and plants that don't seem to want to pitcher. Tom in Fl PS. I never had any luck with plexiglass, it always seemed to warp, yellow, and get fine cracks in it, even under florescents. Is the stuff available now work better than it used to - or is there a special brand? ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:14:34 -0500 Subject: Re: IN VITRO stuff >The problem is weeds. I have a > couple of varieties that seem to be endemic in my collection and no > matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of them! One weed is, I > believe, called liverwort - it is a thick green leaf that sits on the > top of the peat, the underside is a mat of fine roots. ... > The other weed I do not know the name of. It is > a rosette of thin stalks with small spiky leaves arranged in bunches > up the stalk, mostly decumbent up rises up at the end of the stalk > where the flower/seed head is borne. .... (stuff deleted for space) >Anyone got any good ideas about how I > can cope with these pests? -- > Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries Brett: I understand your frustration, I have had problems with the first weed you mention, and when possible I just repot the CP and throw out the old growing medium. An even bigger problem for me are the frigging ferns, I get all kinds of ferns in my sphagnum. These suckers regenerate from any fragment left in the pot, and damned if they don't choke out just about everything but Neps. I have no solution, only symphathy. Tom in Fl ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:59:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Orchids Group Address (non-CP) Hi folks, Due to the number of requests I'm posting the address here. Send the message: Subscribe Orchids To: Mailserv@scuacc.scu.edu or for bitnet to: Mailserv@scu Discussions come in digest form so the mail message volume is small. Enjoy! Jeff in NC ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:17:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nepenthes in the living room I have had very good luck with N. x curtisii pitchering in an east window in my living room. It even put out a pitcher in November, though it was small by comparison. (Others - upper pitchers - are about 8" long) Bob P.S. My next latest try with N. ventricosa has been more successful than the last - I have out on a sunporch that stays *very* cool, (but doesn't freeze). It just pitchered for the first time. :) ################### From: "Brian Obrien" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 10:17:00 CST Subject: household Nepenthes media With regard to the tests of Nepenthes as houseplants, Christopher Creel wrote that the one difficulty with N. mirabilis & N. maxima is that they have to be constantly wet. A way to partly alleviate this problem might be inclusion of polyacryalmide in the mix. This is sold by a number of mail-order companies as `Moisture-Mizer', etc. I've found it to be useful on mounts for epiphytic orchids and in other epiphytic orchid media which needs to remain very open to air. Have any list members tried inclusion of this material in cp media? It might even be possible to use it as a major component. Brian -- bobrien@gac.edu Brian A. O'Brien, Department of Chemistry, Gustavus Adolphus College Saint Peter, Minnesota 56082 U.S.A. tel. (507)933-7310 fax (507)933-7041 ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:48:09 -0500 Subject: Re: posting price lists Excuse me, but Michael only expressed HIS opinion. I didn't see or hear anyone else complaining about this. Why punish us just because one person has an opinion. I never agreed to allow him to dictate what can be on this line. Becky ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:48:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: household Nepenthes media Brian wrote: > With regard to the tests of Nepenthes as houseplants, Christopher Creel > wrote that the one difficulty with N. mirabilis & N. maxima is that they > have to be constantly wet. A way to partly alleviate this problem might be > inclusion of polyacryalmide in the mix. This is sold by a number of > mail-order companies as `Moisture-Mizer', etc. I've found it to be useful > on mounts for epiphytic orchids and in other epiphytic orchid media which > needs to remain very open to air. I have heard strange and mysterious uses for this stuff. I have a set of instructions I give out to Nepenthes beginners and intermediates that I have written over several years of research and listening to this group. One particularly interesting use was to cut a piece PVC piping in half, cover both ends, fill it with this gel, place the whole thing in a terrarium which has about an inch of water in the bottom and finally place Nepenthes cuttings in the gel. Apparently, although I have not tried it, this produces great results. Chris ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:00:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: That was quick That was quick. I have had a number of messages sent to me personally and over the newsgroup for my cuttings. Unfortunately, I will not be able to fulfill all requests. I will reply to each person who responded, individually. To do this, however, I need the addresses of Gary Marshall and Dave Purks, as I could not figure out their e-mail address from their message headers. All further communication about this matter should be directed to my e-mail address at ctcreel@top.cis.syr.edu. Chris ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 11 Jan 1995 11:37:00 +0100 Subject: Re: TC but on another note Dear Terry, you wrote: > While tissue culture is such a hot subject.... > > Has anyone produced any plants by anther > culture? I left out the "haploid" because I > wasn't sure if CP's come in different ploidy > levels besides diploid. Anyone set me straight? Not to my knowledge. Anther culture even in species where protocols already exist is regarded as one of the most difficult tissue culture operations one could try. Best to my knowledge (but as I ve only read about this subject I might be wrong) you would need a highly controlled environment hard to achieve in a non-pro lab. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: "Brian George Kirkland" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:31:00 -0500 XSubject: Re: TC but on another note i do not have enough time to keep up with my messages anymore please remove me from your list thank you brian kirkland ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:22:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: Weeds. > matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of them! One weed is, I > believe, called liverwort - it is a thick green leaf that sits on the As noted before, Liverwort does not seem to like higher light intensities. The organism is probably present in the media your using in the form of gemmae(sp). Next time sterilize the media beforehand, use a non-contaminated media, and make sure not to contaminate the new media from 'infected' pots.. The water that splashes off of liverworts spreads their gemmae. > it cannot cope with. The other weed I do not know the name of. It is > a rosette of thin stalks with small spiky leaves arranged in bunches This is probably some sort of rush. Locally, I seem to get alot of 'Japanese Rush'. As does the MSU collection. It grows in the local mashes and wet areas. Just be luck that you don't have _Oxalis_ running rampant. JMS ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:05:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Seed experiences Hi folks, Have people had positive experiences with CP seed from Doug and Vivi Rowland? E-mail me at welch@niehs.nih.gov and I'll post a consensus. Thanks in advance! Jeff ################### From: Adam Wexler Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:02:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: TC but on another note I know that in Drosera ploidy levels do exceed 2n, but even more interesting is that many pygmy Drosera have non-integer ploidy levels. But pollen culture should definitely work, and it is a great source of axenic cells. -ADW ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:23:53 +0930 Subject: Re TC but on another note Andreas, >Not to my knowledge. Anther culture even in species where >protocols already exist is regarded as one of the most >difficult tissue culture operations one could try. Best to my >knowledge (but as I ve only read about this subject I might be >wrong) you would need a highly controlled environment hard to >achieve in a non-pro lab. I find the tissue culture process fascinating and so I am trying to learn as much as possible about the subject. Anther culture is carried out at my work site on Barley, so I was just curious to see if anyone had tried it for CP. Hmmm... this all does take place in pretty controlled conditions. How do you maintain your light and temperatures i.e. do you have a constant temp cabinet? Terry ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:55:57 +0930 Subject: IUCN CP Specialist Group Does anyone belong to, had some experience with or know something about the World Conservation Union/Species Survival Commission Carnivorous Plant Specialist Group? They are reforming their membership and are seeking expertise. Some information was sent to the Australian CP Society (guess who got it!) and so would like to know a little more before I decide to commit. I'm sure that there is enough expertise in this group to handle many of their queries and I will inform them of this group's existance. Cheers Terry ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 20:51:11 PST Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress Alex: You didn't mention which DOW product you used. Some products take an unseemly long time to cure (not a problem in the shower!). For my aquariums (when they leak) I use aquarium sealer (from DOW) and let it cure according to directions...you might try that stuff! (If you think plants are sensitive, try putting a rubber hose in a salt-water tank!) -BJ ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 21:00:35 PST Subject: Death to Ferns! Brett, Tom (if FL, no less): I have the same troubles...I just gave up, stuff the ferns in a new pot and let them grow as houseplants. -BJ ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 18:18:16 -0700 Subject: Cpn >From: Christopher Waldrop >Subject: CPN >I still haven't received my December issue of CPN. It has been >published, right? I assume this is a postal service problem, but I'm >not sure who to contact for the missing issue... Yes it has been published. I live in Washington State and have had mine for about two weeks now. Some times the mail snails can get quite slow so unless Steve has said something else I'd say give it one or two more weeks. If you don't see it by then contact Steve Baker STEVEB4706@AOL.COM and I'm sure he will make good. Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com Secretary/Treasurer I.C.P.S. ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 18:18:20 -0700 Subject: Mail problimes During the past few months It appears that mail sent to my address at prostar have not been reaching me. Because there are so many people I'm waiting to hear from I'm sending it to the list server. If you have been using this address to send me mail please delete it and use this one instead. KSNIVE@PSTBBS.COM If you are waiting to hear from me and haven't write me again please >Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:15:35 -0800 >From: "Paul Temple" >Subject: Re: RE Ping Study Group >Do you have a current address for the Ping study group and, if >so, do you know when they last published a bulletin? Paul not to but in or any thing but I wanted to talk to you any way. The last issue I received was the Newsletter No.5. Sept 1994, issue. The postmark was from the 18th. of Oct. 1994. The correct address to write to for a subscription is still; Ron Mudd 10, High Street Wymington Nr. Rushden Northants NN10 9LS England A while back you were going to check into a book published in your part of Europe for me about _Dionaea_ and if you ever found it for me or sent any mail about it then I fear it is one of the ones lost in the Net. Christine I am still interested in information on how to acquire copies of your article. If you posted it I did not see the reply, or maybe you did not see my request for information. I have looked every where up here in Washington state and it is just not to be found. I'd like 5 copies if they are available. >An account of my masters research on darlingtonia has just been >published in the California native plant society's quarterly journal >'Fremontia'. > > Its in the October issue, page 29. Mathew Jebb Did you ever find any extra copies of the Science in New Guinea ar ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:51:12 +0930 Subject: RE DArlingtonia article Kevin, > Christine > I am still interested in information on how to acquire copies >of your article. If you posted it I did not see the reply, or >maybe you did not see my request for information. I have looked >every where up here in Washington state and it is just not to be >found. Whoops! Major stuff up on my behalf. Christine actually sent me a copy of the article plus her Darlingtonia references. My intention was to send them to Rick for inclusion into the archives. Unfortunately it slipped my mind as I have an anxious funding body waiting for a report that will govern the flow of dollars my way. Will make sure Rick gets it in the next few days. Sorry to all those people waiting. Terry ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:42:54 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: ploidy > > > There are some polyploid series in _Pinguicula_, e.g. x=8: 2x=2n=16 > _P.corsica_ 4x=2n=32 > _P.grandiflora_/_P.longifolia_/_P.balcanica_/_P.leptoceras_ etc. > 8x=2n=64 _P.vulgaris_ > > BTW: Michael, do you have a reference for _P.vulgaris_ with 2n= other > than 64? Jan, I checked my reference. You are right! It was not P.vulgaris which has different levels of ploidy but the European species of Pinguicula which have a higher level of ploidy in the North and a lower one in the South. The reference is Casper 1966. Sorry for my ignorance. ..Michael > > In the collective species _P.crystallina_ (incl. _P.hirtiflora_), > individuals with 2n=24, 32, and 48 have been found (without morphological > or geographic correlation to chromosome numbers). > > > Kind regards > Jan -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:45:24 +0200 (EET) Subject: European Utrics ? Hi, does anybody know whether the following European Utrics have already entered (tissue culture) collections: U.brehmii U.ochroleuca U.stygia ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 06:14:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Death to Ferns! There are probably 20,000 species of ferns reported in the world. Some of them are invasive and some of them are well behaved. I have mixed plantings of some ferns (native to my area) along with my CPs and am not having any serious problems. I think that you need to consult with your nearest botanical garden staff or university botany researchers to find out which ferns will be suitable for companion planting with your CPs - Carl Strohmenger ################### From: John Taylor Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 22:09:01 +1100 Subject: Re: Re: P. caudata (was New Pinguicula!) >>I have a plant labelled as P. caudata which has P. moranensis >>characteristics. There is a reference in Jan's list which lists it as >>being P. macrophylla. > > >The reference you mean is P.caudata sensu HEMSLEY (non SCHLECHT.). >This was a single misconception in the literature. It has nothing to >do with the P.caudata in the horticultural trade (P.caudata SCHLECHT.), >which is considered conspecific with _P.moranensis_. _P.macrophylla_ >is a completely different plant ("summer" leaves with distinct petioles >marginally with long hairs!), and very rare in cultivation (easy to >kill). > >>From what I remember from Slack's first book, P. caudata has a large >>rosette of leaves. My plant on the other hand is only a few inches >>across at most with *very* pronounced leaf-edge rolls and has somewhat >>rosy pink flowers. > > >Are the corolla lobes cuneate? Only the bottom one - which is also emarginate (notch is almost triangular) the others are rather oblong in shape (the "middle" two maybe fractionally blunter than the "upper" two...) The markings on the flower are typical P.moranensis (darker (pink) surrounding & dividing white stripe into two parts). The lower three lobes are held in a flat plane. The upper/middle lobes are about 13 x 8 mm, the lower about 18 x 12 mm and the spur is roughly 45 mm long (with a bend about halfway along its length) and changes from pinkish to white to greenish (greenish near the the tip). The scape is glandular over its entire length. The mid-rib of the leaf has a noticable fine groove running along it. As a matter of interest (or not...), P. "Pico de Orizaba" has considerably more elongated lobes and the markings on edges of the lobes (around the white stripes) are extremely dark (whereas the thin center stripe marking is only a little darker than the lobe colour). The curious thing about the flower is that the middle lobes are twisted so that they are at about 90o to the plane of the lower lobe (with the normally front surfaces facing upward). The spur is pretty much uniformly purplish. The scape is almost entirely glabrous with only the top inch having any noticable (stalked) glands. The midrib of the leaf does not have a groove and is very pale or white and obviously triangular (being very broad towards the centre of the rosette). >>Is my plant likely to be a P. moranensis var. caudata, P. macrophylla or is >>it totally mislabelled? > >It is probably a member of sect.Orcheosanthus (the "enfant terrible" in the >genus). >>I've just picked up a new Ping hybrid - P. (morrii x ehlersae) x >>grandiflora. I can't find any mention of a P. morrii in my literature >>- is this another Mexican Ping? > > >I have never seen this name before. Where did you pick it up? (No prizes for guessing... ;-) ) I got it from Collectors' Corner at Gardenworld (a "local" nursery complex). They occasionally bring in some new varieties of plants (making a change from the usual Dionaea, Drosera and anonymous Sarracenia hybrids...) This appears to be a small batch that came in recently - there are about three plants each of the new hybrid and also P. "Pico de Orizaba" (although for some reason all the plants in the nurseries are appearing to be entering dormancy - mine's the only one that I've seen in flower so far). There was no labelling to indicate the source of the plants. I fancy that morrii *could* be a mislabelling of P. moranensis (something of a slang form - like Morris Minors are dubbed "Morry"s... ;-) ) If so, this would make sense, since P. x "Sethos" (moranensis x ehlersae) is very common in the CP-selling nurseries here. The only source of doubt is the two "i"s - this does make P. morrii look like it could be a genuine name. >> This plant has the most leaves I've ever seen on a Ping. (I >>count about 30 visible live leaves, including "buds" at the moment!) > >These come from _P.ehlersiae_. I just did a quick check on my P. ehlersae - it only has 28 leaves... I think that it's just that P. ehlersae has such small leaves (and hence, a small rosette) that makes it look less impressive than the hybrid (though it is very pretty and certainly much tidier looking than the hybrid :-) ) BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: tomas polivka Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 12:40:11 MET Subject: tuberous drosera pollinating Hi, Has anybody any experiences with pollinating tuberous drosera? I have tried both cross-pollinating and self-pollinating but always without any success. Can anybody help me? Tomas Polivka ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 07:40:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Cpn > Yes it has been published. I live in Washington State and have had > mine for about two weeks now. Some times the mail snails can get > quite slow so unless Steve has said something else I'd say give it > one or two more weeks. If you don't see it by then contact Steve Baker > > STEVEB4706@AOL.COM > > and I'm sure he will make good. Actually, he already has. It came yesteday, but whenever something like this occurs my initial reaction is to blame the local postal service rather than the person responsible for the mailings. ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 07:51:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Mystery Ping I'm especially grateful to those who offered their advice in helping to identify the mysterious butterworts in my basement. Checking them last night, I noticed that what I thought were going to be flower spikes were actually developing leaves (my P. moranensis has also done this to me several times; it's never bloomed yet so I'm not sure what to look for) and the "orbs" had developed short stems, confirming my belief (hope) that they were young flowers. ################### From: ROMEISER@UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:30:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: self-intro My name is John Romeiser and I have been interested in CP off and on for many years. I have experience growing Venus Flytraps, pitcher plants, and sundews. Since I have been out of the growing business for quite a while, I would like to know where I can order plants, bulbs, etc. ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:44:06 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Nepenthes pollen > Hello all, > > Within the next weeks I will have fresh N. dubia pollen available. Anyone > interested please contact me. > > Does anybody have fresh pollen available now? - > _Very_ _soon_ I ll have N. glabrata and N. dentata x glabrata flowering > (buth female). Any pollen is welcome, but I need it really very soon.. So far I've been offered pollen of N. maxima and N. carunculata:-)) Anything else available out there? Any more lonely female Nep's interested in N. dubia pollen? all the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: kirk Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 07:13:59 PST Subject: Re: Seed experiences I just received some seed from doug and vicki and it appeared to be generous qu antities. I can't vouch for the germination rates. He has some interesting vari eties available. He also sold me his last copy of vol I of Lowrie's books. Of i nterest is available reprint of Slack's book carnivorous plants for L12.50 +L3. 50 postage ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:42:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Off Topic/Hawaii/ Skunk Vine I am looking for help in controling Skunk Vine (Paederia foetida). It has been reported to me that Skunk Vine is a serious problem in Hawaiian parklands, and I have been referred to four people in Hawaii who have experience in dealing with this weed. Can anyone help me find these men? I have been unsuccessful in tracking down good s-mail addresses for any of them. I am hoping that some of the members of this list might know one or more of them. An email address would be wonderful, but a telephone number or a US Postal address would work too. 1. Robert W. Hodby - with the Hawaii Division of Forestry and Wildlife 2. LLoyd Loope - with the National Biological Survey 3. Arthur Medeiros - with the Haleakala National Park / Maui 4. Stephen Anderson - with the Haleakala National Park / Maui Thanks for any help you can give. - Carl Strohmenger cstrohme@com1.med.usf.edu ################### From: "Walter Greenwood" Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:02:08 EST5EDT Subject: Re: Re: New Pinguicula! > > _Pinguicula greenwoodii_ is described as new. ... > ... > Seriously now, I *am* a bit curious as to the origin of the name. Despite my tasteless P.S., I posed the original question in all seriousness. Can *anyone* tell me who this beast is named after? ever so sincerely, Walter Greenwood P.S.: Speaking of tasteless P.S.s, I once heard a story about two male USDA inspectors chasing a terrified female colleague all around the inspection station at JFK with a large, red N. sanguinea pitcher. Talk about a hostile work environment! Hope she got punitive damages. ;-) ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 11 Jan 1995 16:04:00 +0100 Subject: Weeds Dear Brett, you wrote: > The best treatment for this weed I have found > is repotting and then followup by ripping our > the young plantlets that come up. Unfortunately > if I don't do this very regularly the weed gets > to the point where I cannot do this. Anyone > got any good ideas about how I can cope with > these pests? > > BTW most of my plants are either in peat or > peat/sand/whatever mix if this makes a > difference. The fact that the weeds come up again (soon?) after repotting might be a sign that your peat is contaminated by seeds or spores in case of Liverworts. Did you collect your peat from a peat-swamp? If you bought your peat maybe a change of the brand helps. By the way, I m just remembering that Joachim who s also on the list is currently experimenting with a peat substitute made from coconut which seems to work excellent for Nepenthes.... All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 11 Jan 1995 23:36:00 +0100 Subject: Re: Weeds. > Next time sterilize the media beforehand Once I tried sterilizing peat before sowing CP-seeds on it hoping to have less problems with algae or mold. The opposite was true! Never before have I observed such a quick growth of these. I suppose that boiling breaks down the peat, probably by opening still closed cells within the remainder of Sphagnum. Keeping this substrate under non sterile conditions after boiling as e.g. your propagating case makes it a good medium for these. Have other people observed similar things? Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: Heiko Rischer Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:18:00 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: TC but on another note On Wed, 11 Jan 1995, Andreas Wistuba wrote: > Not to my knowledge. Anther culture even in species where protocols > already exist is regarded as one of the most difficult tissue culture > operations one could try. Best to my knowledge (but as I ve only read > about this subject I might be wrong) you would need a highly controlled > environment hard to achieve in a non-pro lab. > As far as I know Anther culture is almost standard in many crop plants in the meantime (e.g. it is done here in the labs of the university, plant breeding), but most of these species are monocotyl and therefor we cannot translate all informations unreserved to dicotyl plants (i.e. most cps). Nevertheless its even there an empiric process working out a protocoll that works for a single species (or even genotype). Another point is the highly controlled environment mentioned above. In many cases the anthers must be treated with cold prior and after explanting on agar (i.e. liquid medium usually used). Further you have to harvest the anthers (or pollen)at a special stage of the development (pollenmitosis) otherwise they will never grow on the medium. Its rather complicated to catch this moment and gain appreciable yield (i.e. growing plants ). -> you need a lot of working hands and laboratory space. Yours Heiko ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 18:18:13 +0100 Subject: Re: Re: New Pinguicula! Walter, >> > _Pinguicula greenwoodii_ is described as new. ... >> ... >> Seriously now, I *am* a bit curious as to the origin of the name. The cited paper does not reveal the first name of the collector/collectrix (of the type specimen of this new species). Maybe someone in UK does know more. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:17:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Weeds. > Once I tried sterilizing peat before sowing CP-seeds on it hoping to have > less problems with algae or mold. The opposite was true! Never before have > I observed such a quick growth of these. I suppose that boiling breaks > down the peat, probably by opening still closed cells within the remainder > of Sphagnum. Keeping this substrate under non sterile conditions after > boiling as e.g. your propagating case makes it a good medium for these. > Have other people observed similar things? > Andreas Andreas: My experience has been about the same. My casual observations have lead me to believe that sterilizing peat and dried sphagnum may reduce the number of weeds and insect pests, but not mold or fungus. I decided that the medium was probably "reinfected" as soon as it was back under growing conditions. It would seem to me there may be as much beneficial bacterial and fungal action as there would troublesome beasties. I haven't done a controlled comparison, so this is just based on limited observation. Tom in Fl ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 13:20:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Seed experiences > I just received some seed from doug and vicki and it appeared to be > generous qu > antities. I can't vouch for the germination rates. He has some > interesting vari > eties available. He also sold me his last copy of vol I of Lowrie's > books. Of i > nterest is available reprint of Slack's book carnivorous plants for > L12.50 +L3. > 50 postage > > I haven't heard of these seed suppliers. Is an address available? I would also be interested in Vol 1 of Lowrie's book. Are there still sources for Vol 1? Tom in Fl ################### From: fbroom@HRR1.HORT.CRI.NZ Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:32:58 +1200 Subject: Re: NZ cp Someone posted a few days ago about coming to NZ. I could show them a few local Drosera, but I suspect coming from the US to NZ to see carnivorous plants may be a bit like a resident of New York going to the North Pole to study traffic congestion. Fraser ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:59:48 -0800 Subject: "Infomercial" Cp archive > > Perhaps what we need is an "infomercial" page in the WWW page so that > > people who want to buy plants can browse this. Anyone interested in > > buying plants could be pointed at the WWW page. > > or do put this list on the ftp server (for those who do not have access to > WWW). I notice that this suggestion keeps coming up from time to time, so I'm putting in my two cents: We *DO* have such a service! We have had it since the inception of this group. There are two files in the CP archives: cp.sellerlist ;merged commercial price lists cp.growlist ;merged member grow list The growlist currently contains information on 24 different members, for a total of 384 species, with 2293 individual plant entries. The sellerlist contains commercial pricelists of 14 different growers, listing a total of 347 species, and 1283 individual entries. These files are only as good as your continued contributions! Please make use of these files. I always welcome updates to your personal growlists, and any contributions of commercial pricelists. Contact me for the proper submission format. Thanks! -- Rick ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 08:16:36 +0930 Subject: Re Pollinating tuberous Drosera Tomas, > Has anybody any experiences with pollinating tuberous drosera? >I have tried both cross-pollinating and self-pollinating but >always without any success. Can anybody help me? My collection of tuberous Drosera is far from extensive but I have been able to get seed from D. stolonifera porrecta, D. stolonifera rupicola, D. whittakeri and D.peltata. All of these were self pollinated.D. peltata produces copious quantities of seed and ends up growing all over the place. I haven't been able to get others, such as D. orbiculata and D. zonaria, to produce seed though. Cheers Terry Which species are giving you troubles? ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 08:32:39 +0930 Subject: Summer and Tuberous Drosera Well all, It looks like summer is really here this year. You may recall an earlier posting about the lack of rail and temperatures in excess of 36 C. Well the temperature for the greater part of this week (and also the rest of the week) has been around 36 C (todays estimated max is 38 C). You can tell it's summer though because the bushfires have started. Here's only hoping we don't have a really bad one. No wonder the tuberous Drosera choose this time to stay underground. Hopefully the fires will stimulate the Drosera into even better growth and germination. Cheers Terry ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 16:22:22 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re Pollinating tuberous Drosera > My collection of tuberous Drosera is far from extensive but I > have been able to get seed from D. stolonifera porrecta, D. > stolonifera rupicola, D. whittakeri and D.peltata. All of these > were self pollinated.D. peltata produces copious quantities of > seed and ends up growing all over the place. I haven't been able > to get others, such as D. orbiculata and D. zonaria, to produce > seed though. I've heard conflicting things about D. whittakeri. How viable are its seeds usually? Isn't it also the one tuberous species that grows in the summer and dies back in the winter? ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 17:40 EST Subject: RE: New Pinguicula > > The cited paper does not reveal the first name of the collector/collectrix Collectrix ?! :-) Michael ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:45:36 +0930 Subject: RE tuberous Drosera >> My collection of tuberous Drosera is far from extensive but I >> have been able to get seed from D. stolonifera porrecta, D. >> stolonifera rupicola, D. whittakeri and D.peltata. All of >these >> were self pollinated.D. peltata produces copious quantities of >> seed and ends up growing all over the place. I haven't been >able >> to get others, such as D. orbiculata and D. zonaria, to >produce >> seed though. >I've heard conflicting things about D. whittakeri. How viable >are its seeds usually? Isn't it also the one tuberous species >that grows in the summer and dies back in the winter? D. whittakeri seed doesn't germinate easily (I don't bother tubers are easier :) ) and perhaps does require that ever present bushfire to break dormancy. I can guarantee that you will hard pressed finding them here during the summer! Any comments from the other Aussie states? Cheers Terry ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:03:27 GMT Subject: wordsearch Feel free to skip the next 2 screens and get straight to the wordsearch if you're sick of all these flames. Quotes uncredited - you know who you are... > O.k., but let's stop now our flames; > To Phil, if it bothers you just logout. :-) Why should he ( or anyone else, ) have to? - > Remember this is not flame_each_other_cp@opus.hpl.hp.com! > P.S.: For the future, you, and your vast majority of this group: Discover > the unknown commands of your mail-reader, now! Use 'd' for delete. (for > weenies only!) All well and good, but some of us ( well, I do anyway, ) take this list in digest mode. I don't see why I should have to delete the whole list just to get rid of the flames. > I think we should stop now this crazy and childy discussion; ... > P.S.: I suggest to continue this discussion by personal mail...> I strongly suggest you to further discuss this by private mail... > Herewith, I declare to refrain from further post on this topic for the time being, i.e. I have lunch now. SO DO IT! > I like this listserver, but I am going to unsubscribe real soon if all I > get is this inane back and forth flaming. And it has already started... > What happened to all the fun stuff... Fun stuff? Oh yes, I remember that. OK, here's something to lighten the list up a little ( I hope. ) _____________________________________________________________________________ CARNIVOROUS PLANT WORDSEARCH Yes, it's one of those grids you have to pick out words from. All words are in straight lines horizontally, vertically or diagonally; forwards or backwards. And just for a challenge I'm not going to tell you what the words you're looking for are, nor how many of them there are (ha). The only clue you've got is that they are all names of CP genera ( or more exactly genera which contain at least one carnivorous species .) I know a couple have been reclassified by the lumpers , but they were nice words... So if you fancy a bit of healthy competition ( rather than all these flames, ) let's see who can get this ( you may want to check a book if you're not well-versed in CP nomenclature, that's OK - you've still got to find them, and it's not a complete list. :> ) No prizes, just the glory - first correctly completed grid ( overstrike names with lowercase letters, ) or just a list of the hidden genera, into my mailbox wins ( I'll announce the winner later. ) A E N I C C O R B P B E A X N S A R R A C E N I A R R Y D A R L I N G T O N I A O L R I G M U K S V A G C S H O O S O G J I U E R U A U P H S A N N L L S O E I T T M P O I H B A I P A U C O O A M P I Y R L E D L Q U P L I O H B I N T U A T B L S A L P Y A E D R O S E R A I H E Y L G N E P E N T H E S P H L L A D N A V O R D L A E S O U T R I C U L A R I A C X P M U L L Y H P O Y H P I R T completed grids, comments, feedback, flames, death threats, poll tax demands etc. to: carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk ( not to the list - it'll just clog it up again and spoil other people's challenge. ) Enjoy... Peter ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 17:59:01 -0700 (MST) Subject: Seeds&moss Since several people have been mentioning problems with ferns and their cps I thought I'd add a question of my own. I have been trying to grow several species of cps from seed after sowing them in peat moss mixed with vermiculite. While I had great success producing large quantities of seedlings I also managed to grow an overwhelming amount of moss. This moss seems to be literally outcompeting my seedlings. The seeds are almost 6 months old now but seem extremely frail. What hope is their for their salvation? If I drop the humidity I may get rid of the moss but I think it will kill these seedlings too. If I pick the moss out by hand the whole surface comes up carrying away all the cps in it. Are they doomed? Whill they eventually mature enough to transfer? They are venus fly traps and 4 species of drosera. Thanks for any help you might have!! John peredur@usa.net ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 21:05:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: nepenthes seed medium I just recently received some Nepenthes seed. Can someone tell me what the best medium is on which to sow it? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Christoph ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 13:05:20 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Weeds According to Andreas Wistuba: > >The fact that the weeds come up again (soon?) after repotting might be a >sign that your peat is contaminated by seeds or spores in case of >Liverworts. Did you collect your peat from a peat-swamp? No I do not collect my own peat. For a while I have been using "Warrior Brand" Peat which comes from New Zealand but have this year switched to one called "Defender" which comes from Australia (support the local product, no? :-). I do not believe either peat have any foreign seeds/spores in them. I think that I am leaving fragments of the weeds on the rhizomes or whatever when I repot. These weeds seem to be able to come back from the almost invisible specks. >If you bought >your peat maybe a change of the brand helps. I am hoping the Defender brand may slow the weeds down a bit - it seems to be more open then the Warrior stuff. BTW I do _not_ select my peat on the basis of the war like name ;-) >By the way, I m just remembering that Joachim who s also on the list is >currently experimenting with a peat substitute made from coconut which >seems to work excellent for Nepenthes.... > I would be very interested to hear what results you get with that stuff. My SO found some of this peat substitute in a supermarket, I was planning a major repotting so I decided that I really did not want to risk the experiment on a major part of my collection. If the substitute works out then it would be good as it sells for about half the price of peat here in South Australia. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 20:41:59 -0800 Subject: Darlingtonia Paper in archive and on CP WEB A copy of Christine Elder's paper on the Reproductive Biology of _Darlingtonia californica_, along with a comprehensive bibliography has been installed on the CP WEB page. Search for "Darlingtonia" and follow the links from there. There is also a copy in the CP mailing list archives under "GET CP darlingtonia" Cheers, -- Rick Walker ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:03:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Listserver Help > I have been trying to access archive files on the listserver but all I > get is the following message : > > >No requests found in your message. Requests should be included in the > >body of the mail message. > > > > Ths message body that generated this was > send cp.sellerlist It looks like you want GET, and not SEND. In the following, archive is CP, so you want get CP cp.sellerlist The listserver help includes: get [/password] [parts] ---------------------------------------------------------- Get the requested file from the specified archive. Files are usually split in parts locally, and in such a case you will receive the file in multiple email messages -- an 'index' request tells you how many parts the file has been split into, and their sizes; if you need to obtain certain parts, specify them as optional arguments. If an archive is private, you have to provide its password as well. ---------------------------------------------------------- I see another 54 (!) CP messages waiting for me this morning. I hope that at least 1 or 2 are interesting, unlike last night's batch - I nearly wore out the Delete key. This is the last list which I imagined would ever degenerate into this garbage. Just think of any new subscribers wanting to ask about their VFT. Do you think they will stay subscribers for long? Please wake me up when it is over. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:38:33 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: nepenthes seed medium > > I just recently received some Nepenthes seed. Can someone tell me what the > best medium is on which to sow it? Any suggestions would be appreciated. > Christoph > Chopped spaghnum. Keep moist but not wet at about 25 centigrades. ,,Michael ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:58:37 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Weeds > >By the way, I m just remembering that Joachim who s also on the list is > >currently experimenting with a peat substitute made from coconut which > >seems to work excellent for Nepenthes.... > > > > I would be very interested to hear what results you get with that > stuff. My SO found some of this peat substitute in a supermarket, I > was planning a major repotting so I decided that I really did not want > to risk the experiment on a major part of my collection. If the > substitute works out then it would be good as it sells for about half > the price of peat here in South Australia. Joachim, what's your comment? A. Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:01:59 GMT+1 Subject: Re: nepenthes seed medium Dear Christoph, you wrote: > I just recently received some Nepenthes seed. Can someone tell me what the > best medium is on which to sow it? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Just peat worked fine for me. All the best Andreas P.S.: However the best medium for Nepenthes seeds is a bit of agar with some Knudsen C solution in it ;-) Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:04:47 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Seeds&moss > I have been trying to grow > several species of cps from seed after sowing them in peat moss mixed > with vermiculite. While I had great success producing large quantities of > seedlings I also managed to grow an overwhelming amount of moss. I always had the impression that vermiculite promotes the growth of moss and algae. I would'nt use it except for Ping's. Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Adolf Ceska Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 01:00:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Conservation of Venus Flytrap THE VENUS FLYTRAP TRADE IN NORTH AND SOUTH CAROLINA (Article by Jane C. MacKnight & Vonda Frantz - abbrev.) The Venus Flytrap is a sole representative of the genus Dionaea (its Latin name is D. muscipula Ellis), a member of the Droseraceae family which contains Sundew (Drosera - about 80 spp.), Waterwheel (Aldrovanda - 1 sp.), and Portuguese Sundew (Drosophyllum - 1 sp.). Dionaea muscipula is endemic to a 320-km strip of coastal plain in southeastern North Carolina and northeastern South Carolina where the sandy-peaty, acidic, low-nutrient soils remain wet. Populations decline rapidly when overgrown by shrubs and taller plants. Periodic fires are characteristic of Venus Flytrap habitat. Unless other management techniques are employed, drainage or suppression of fires will cause extirpation of the habitat and Venus Flytrap populations. The Venus Flytrap is traded as a novelty plant in North America, Europe and Asia. In Germany, the plants are also used in a medicine, Carnivora, which is sold as a claimed remedy for cancer and AIDS (Ref.: Walker, M. 1991. The Carnivora cure for cancer, AIDS, and other pathologies. - Townsend Newsletter for Doctors. Stamford, CT, June). The Venus Flytrap is propagated in both the USA and Europe. Methods of propagation - by division, tissue culture, leaf-base culture, from leaf blades or by seeds - are relatively easy and require between one and three years for the plants to reach a marketable size. No commercial propagation or trade in Venus Flytrap was iden- tified in South Carolina. Nine nurseries in North Carolina found to trade in Venus Flytrap were visited or interviewed by telephone. Only one nursery was found to conduct true artificial propagation, while others either propagate by division and continually replenish stock with wild plants or rely entirely on wild-collected plants. Both South and North Carolina have taken measures to protect the species. The laws prohibit collection of Venus Flytrap from public lands, or from private lands without the permission of the landowner. The listing of the Venus Flytrap in CITES Appen- dix II became effective on 11 June 1992 and requires documenta- tion for all international exports and re-exports. All wild- collected plants destined for export require export permits and artificially-propagated plants require a certificate of artifi- cial propagation. Small-scale collecting may occur in South Carolina, but it is not believed to be a serious problem. Illegal collection of wild plants in North Carolina is frequent, widespread and large- scale. The volume of Venus Flytraps collected annually in North Carolina may be as high as several hundred thousand plants. When the habitat of Venus Flytrap was abundant, the impact of collec- tion was probably negligible. But the effects of development - bulldozing and paving of habitat, drainage of large tracks for timber extraction, and fire suppression - have diminished the amount of habitat, and the impact of collection is magnified. The decrease in collecting sites causes each remaining site to be more heavily collected. Recommendations. The long-term preservation of the Venus Flytrap will require a series of measures: 1) Reduce and control collection of wild plants. 2) Enforce state regulations and CITES. 3) Establish more protected areas. (BEN # 88 13-January-1995) ---------------------------------------- ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:27:55 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Conservation of Venus Flytrap > In Germany, the plants are also used in a > medicine, Carnivora, which is sold as a claimed remedy for > cancer and AIDS (Ref.: Walker, M. 1991. The Carnivora cure for > cancer, AIDS, and other pathologies. - Townsend Newsletter for > Doctors. Stamford, CT, June). Best to my knowledge this product has been forbidden as some persons have had serious problems after having had injections. It was at least forbidden temporally but might be available again. Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 11:31:07 +0100 Subject: trix Michael, >Collectrix ?! :-) =Pseudo-scientific slang for female collector (cf. _Pinguicula imitatrix_). Just another of these silly Jan-jokes; I fear this will not improve until the end of carniv(or)al. 8-) Kind regards Jan ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 13:42:06 MEZ Subject: Re: Darlingtonia Paper in archive and on CP WEB Rick, WOuldn't it be possible to store the pictures of CPs also in some other form accessible for us we haven't WWW? Ivo ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:22:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Seeds&moss > Since several people have been mentioning problems with ferns and their > cps I thought I'd add a question of my own. I have been trying to grow > several species of cps from seed after sowing them in peat moss mixed > with vermiculite. While I had great success producing large quantities of > seedlings I also managed to grow an overwhelming amount of moss. This > moss seems to be literally outcompeting my seedlings. The seeds are > almost 6 months old now but seem extremely frail. What hope is their for > their salvation? If I drop the humidity I may get rid of the moss but I > think it will kill these seedlings too. If I pick the moss out by hand > the whole surface comes up carrying away all the cps in it. Are they > doomed? Whill they eventually mature enough to transfer? They are > venus fly traps and 4 species of drosera. Thanks for any help you might > have!! > John > peredur@usa.net John: In the past I have had real problems with the more compact forms of moss when attemping to start seedlings. The moss either chokes the seedling out, or actually grows fast enough to pull the seedling out by the roots as it grows up and around it. For me, what works better is using dried long fiber sphagnum as a medium for starting seeds. (Obviously, soak it for a few hours or so before starting your seeds.) Long fiber sphagnum seems to prevent the other compact forms of moss from getting started and offers a good open surface for seed growth. Tom in Fl > ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:33:29 -0500 Subject: Re: nepenthes seed medium > > > I just recently received some Nepenthes seed. Can someone tell me > what the best medium is on which to sow it? Any suggestions would be > appreciated. Christoph > > I recently received seed from the ICPS seedbank and tried a less than perfect experiment. In the past I have planted Nep seed on live long fiber sphagnum with reasonable results. This time I had two kinds of seed so I took two trays and roughly divided them into thirds. One third was a peat sand mixture, one third was dried long fiber sphagnum (rewetted of course) and the last third was live long fiber sphagnum. The inert mediums were cooked in the microwave to sterilize them. For both species highest germination was on the dried long fiber sphagnum. Contrary to the past, neither species germinated in the live sphagnum, and one species only produced one or two seedlings on the peat/sand medium. There were marked differences in the germination between the two species. As I mentioned this was imperfect, and I have had success in the past with live sphagnum, but it was enough to convince me to use dried sphagnum for at least a portion of my seed. Tom in Fl ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 11:39:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Seeds&moss Hi John, The moss problem is an old one with CP and make it rough on seedlings. You might try trimming the moss back with scissors, and transplant the seedlings to fresh media when they are large enough. My judge of transplant maturity is when I can (with reasonable care) manipulate the plant. Usually it has 5-6 real leaves and around 5 mm in dimension. You will probably never get rid of the moss totally as the spores are air-borne and come in on the breeze. It does make an attractive top dressing for larger plants though. Good Luck! Jeff ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:35:13 -0700 Subject: VFTs in BEN On BEN, the Botanical electronic news service, the following article was posted. For those interested in subscribing I have included header information... Barry ----------------------------- Return-Path: Message-Id: <199501130844.AAA05761@cue.bc.ca> BBBBB EEEEEE NN N ISSN 1188-603X BB B EE NNN N BBBBB EEEEE NN N N BOTANICAL BB B EE NN NN ELECTRONIC BBBBB EEEEEE NN N NEWS No. 88 January 13, 1995 aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Victoria, B.C. ----------------------------------------------------------- Dr. A. Ceska, P.O.Box 8546, Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 3S2 ----------------------------------------------------------- THE VENUS FLYTRAP TRADE IN NORTH AND SOUTH CAROLINA (Article by Jane C. MacKnight & Vonda Frantz - abbrev.) The Venus Flytrap is a sole representative of the genus Dionaea (its Latin name is D. muscipula Ellis), a member of the Droseraceae family which contains Sundew (Drosera - about 80 spp.), Waterwheel (Aldrovanda - 1 sp.), and Portuguese Sundew (Drosophyllum - 1 sp.). Dionaea muscipula is endemic to a 320-km strip of coastal plain in southeastern North Carolina and northeastern South Carolina where the sandy-peaty, acidic, low-nutrient soils remain wet. Populations decline rapidly when overgrown by shrubs and taller plants. Periodic fires are characteristic of Venus Flytrap habitat. Unless other management techniques are employed, drainage or suppression of fires will cause extirpation of the habitat and Venus Flytrap populations. The Venus Flytrap is traded as a novelty plant in North America, Europe and Asia. In Germany, the plants are also used in a medicine, Carnivora, which is sold as a claimed remedy for cancer and AIDS (Ref.: Walker, M. 1991. The Carnivora cure for cancer, AIDS, and other pathologies. - Townsend Newsletter for Doctors. Stamford, CT, June). The Venus Flytrap is propagated in both the USA and Europe. Methods of propagation - by division, tissue culture, leaf-base culture, from leaf blades or by seeds - are relatively easy and require between one and three years for the plants to reach a marketable size. No commercial propagation or trade in Venus Flytrap was iden- tified in South Carolina. Nine nurseries in North Carolina found to trade in Venus Flytrap were visited or interviewed by telephone. Only one nursery was found to conduct true artificial propagation, while others either propagate by division and continually replenish stock with wild plants or rely entirely on wild-collected plants. Both South and North Carolina have taken measures to protect the species. The laws prohibit collection of Venus Flytrap from public lands, or from private lands without the permission of the landowner. The listing of the Venus Flytrap in CITES Appen- dix II became effective on 11 June 1992 and requires documenta- tion for all international exports and re-exports. All wild- collected plants destined for export require export permits and artificially-propagated plants require a certificate of artifi- cial propagation. Small-scale collecting may occur in South Carolina, but it is not believed to be a serious problem. Illegal collection of wild plants in North Carolina is frequent, widespread and large- scale. The volume of Venus Flytraps collected annually in North Carolina may be as high as several hundred thousand plants. When the habitat of Venus Flytrap was abundant, the impact of collec- tion was probably negligible. But the effects of development - bulldozing and paving of habitat, drainage of large tracks for timber extraction, and fire suppression - have diminished the amount of habitat, and the impact of collection is magnified. The decrease in collecting sites causes each remaining site to be more heavily collected. Recommendations. The long-term preservation of the Venus Flytrap will require a series of measures: 1) Reduce and control collection of wild plants. 2) Enforce state regulations and CITES. 3) Establish more protected areas. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 12:56:30 -0500 Subject: Re: We can save the world (wa... Dear Andreas, Whenever you may find your self in CAlifornia, go see Rod McClellens. He has something like 3 or 7 acres under glass doing just that with orchids. It's a hoot to walk by the greenhouses with all the ferris wheels going... Since orchids don't bloom for 3-5 years, everyone can see where this might be a big investment. The place has some history, I don't remember if it's been doing TC for 25 or 50 years. Becky ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 13:59:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: self-intro > > My name is John Romeiser and I have been interested in CP off and on for > many years. I have experience growing Venus Flytraps, pitcher plants, and > sundews. Since I have been out of the growing business for quite a while, > I would like to know where I can order plants, bulbs, etc. > Are there any plants in particular that you want? People on the net often have extra's that they'll give away (maybe charge for postage). One of the main ideas of this net is to help spread culitvated plant material. JMS ################### From: NBS/Haleakala Field Station Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:31:44 -1000 Subject: BEN # 88 (fwd) fyi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - National Biological Service - Haleakala N.P. Field Station [** Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent **] [** the position of the National Biological Service or my employer! **] ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: ben@cue.bc.ca BBBBB EEEEEE NN N ISSN 1188-603X BB B EE NNN N BBBBB EEEEE NN N N BOTANICAL BB B EE NN NN ELECTRONIC BBBBB EEEEEE NN N NEWS No. 88 January 13, 1995 aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca Victoria, B.C. ----------------------------------------------------------- Dr. A. Ceska, P.O.Box 8546, Victoria, B.C. Canada V8W 3S2 ----------------------------------------------------------- SENIOR WATERSHED ECOLOGIST FOR THE CITY OF SEATTLE, WA Supervise and lead biology professionals to plan and implement programs in forest and watershed ecology for City of Seattle Water Department. Develop cooperative research programs and environmental plans with universities, Indian tribes, and agencies. Work with multidisciplinary staff to design timber sales and create long-term programs to protect, rehabilitate, and restore aquatic and terrestrial ecosystems. Requires a B.S. in natural sciences plus 5 years of experience in a related field involving developing, conducting, and super- vising field monitoring, research, and habitat management in wildlife biology, fisheries, or ecology. Related M.S. or Ph.D. involving research is preferred and may substitute for 3 years of experience. Salary $3,787/month. Send your resume by January 24, 1995, to S. Bergstrand, Seattle Personnel Dept., 1292 Dexter Horton Building, Seattle, WA, U.S.A., 98104-1793. AA/EOE. THE VENUS FLYTRAP TRADE IN NORTH AND SOUTH CAROLINA (Article by Jane C. MacKnight & Vonda Frantz - abbrev.) The Venus Flytrap is a sole representative of the genus Dionaea (its Latin name is D. muscipula Ellis), a member of the Droseraceae family which contains Sundew (Drosera - about 80 spp.), Waterwheel (Aldrovanda - 1 sp.), and Portuguese Sundew (Drosophyllum - 1 sp.). Dionaea muscipula is endemic to a 320-km strip of coastal plain in southeastern North Carolina and northeastern South Carolina where the sandy-peaty, acidic, low-nutrient soils remain wet. Populations decline rapidly when overgrown by shrubs and taller plants. Periodic fires are characteristic of Venus Flytrap habitat. Unless other management techniques are employed, drainage or suppression of fires will cause extirpation of the habitat and Venus Flytrap populations. The Venus Flytrap is traded as a novelty plant in North America, Europe and Asia. In Germany, the plants are also used in a medicine, Carnivora, which is sold as a claimed remedy for cancer and AIDS (Ref.: Walker, M. 1991. The Carnivora cure for cancer, AIDS, and other pathologies. - Townsend Newsletter for Doctors. Stamford, CT, June). The Venus Flytrap is propagated in both the USA and Europe. Methods of propagation - by division, tissue culture, leaf-base culture, from leaf blades or by seeds - are relatively easy and require between one and three years for the plants to reach a marketable size. No commercial propagation or trade in Venus Flytrap was iden- tified in South Carolina. Nine nurseries in North Carolina found to trade in Venus Flytrap were visited or interviewed by telephone. Only one nursery was found to conduct true artificial propagation, while others either propagate by division and continually replenish stock with wild plants or rely entirely on wild-collected plants. Both South and North Carolina have taken measures to protect the species. The laws prohibit collection of Venus Flytrap from public lands, or from private lands without the permission of the landowner. The listing of the Venus Flytrap in CITES Appen- dix II became effective on 11 June 1992 and requires documenta- tion for all international exports and re-exports. All wild- collected plants destined for export require export permits and artificially-propagated plants require a certificate of artifi- cial propagation. Small-scale collecting may occur in South Carolina, but it is not believed to be a serious problem. Illegal collection of wild plants in North Carolina is frequent, widespread and large- scale. The volume of Venus Flytraps collected annually in North Carolina may be as high as several hundred thousand plants. When the habitat of Venus Flytrap was abundant, the impact of collec- tion was probably negligible. But the effects of development - bulldozing and paving of habitat, drainage of large tracks for timber extraction, and fire suppression - have diminished the amount of habitat, and the impact of collection is magnified. The decrease in collecting sites causes each remaining site to be more heavily collected. Recommendations. The long-term preservation of the Venus Flytrap will require a series of measures: 1) Reduce and control collection of wild plants. 2) Enforce state regulations and CITES. 3) Establish more protected areas. THE NEXT ISSUE OF BEN will bring an article on Plenterung, one form of selective logging, written exclusively for BEN by Prof.Dr. Rudolf W. Becking. ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 19:49:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: nepenthes seed medium Thanks for the help, on the Nep seed medium, wish me luck. Andreas, can you email me your newest list? My email address is eheick@acs.bu.edu I apologize for doing this over the list, but I have had no success getting through to you. Christoph ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:09:37 GMT Subject: liverworts Brett Lymn said: >The problem is weeds. I have a > couple of varieties that seem to be endemic in my collection and no > matter how hard I try I cannot get rid of them! One weed is, I > believe, called liverwort - it is a thick green leaf that sits on the > top of the peat, the underside is a mat of fine roots. ... > The other weed I do not know the name of. It is > a rosette of thin stalks with small spiky leaves arranged in bunches > up the stalk, mostly decumbent up rises up at the end of the stalk > where the flower/seed head is borne. .... (stuff deleted for space) >Anyone got any good ideas about how I > can cope with these pests? What's wrong with liverworts? If you leave them long enough you get pretty little 'palm trees' ( flowers? ) growing up from the main leaf. They don't seem to do any harm, and are a good indicator of moisture - if the liverworts go crispy, it's time to water your CPs :) The other spiky weed - damned if I know. They're fully hardy and resistant to drying out though the roots aren't too invasive - they pull out if you're careful. I guess from your description they're the same as mine - I haven't seen mine produce flowers yet, but it's sort of like a miniature terrestrial pondweed ( Aldrovanda without the traps. ) They don't seem to like shaded pots though... If you ask me though, the worst pest of all is U. Sandersonii - I mean, short of napalm, how do you get it out of other pots? Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | If Pavlov had used cats, the Swansea,WALES | new mailbox, same account | world would be a very different old mailboxes still active place... ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:09:56 GMT Subject: WWW access Sorry if this isn't exactly CP related - it seems relevant in view of the confusion there seems to be over accessing the WWW site. Michael Hasemann said: >> Perhaps what we need is an "infomercial" page in the WWW page so that >> people who want to buy plants can browse this. Anyone interested in >> buying plants could be pointed at the WWW page. > or do put this list on the ftp server (for those who do not have access to > WWW). Aah, but we do have access to the WWW - yes, everyone on this list! If you haven't got a browser of your own, there are telnet WWW servers at : info.cern.ch eies2.njit.edu vms.huji.ac.il and info.funet.fi No telnet? OK, try the webmailer ( and if you haven't got Email, how the hell are you reading this? :) Send a message to : agora@mail.w3.org with no subject and HELP as the body for details. This is more straightforward than the telnet servers ( well, I prefer it. ) I still haven't figured out if the pix are in any way reachable, but you can get the .html pages as ascii or even as source for offline browsing with suitable software ( it preserves the links to other pages too :) Enjoy, Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | if you have any problems, Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | feel free to drop me a line... old mailboxes still active ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 21:15 EST Subject: VFTs in BEN Speaking of VFTs in Tenn., I seem to recall someone posting here a year ago to say that they knew of a bog (in Tennessee I think) to which VFTs had been introduced. The VFTs had proliferated and "taken over" the bog. Has this been further substantiated? Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 21:53 EST Subject: Liverworts! > > What's wrong with liverworts? If you leave them long enough you > get pretty little 'palm trees' ( flowers? ) growing up from the > main leaf. They don't seem to do any harm, and are a good > indicator of moisture - if the liverworts go crispy, it's time > to water your CPs :) > I mean, short of napalm, how do you get it out of other pots? Those pretty little 'palm trees' are the dreaded archegoniophores of the invasive _Marchantia polymorpha_! Beware! If you though the prolific gemmae cups were effective at spreading the brood, just wait till those archegoniophores open their bomb bays loaded with spores! Look around your collection and you may find both palm trees (archegonio- phores) and umbrellas (antheridiophores). The antheridiophores produce the sperm cells which must swim across to another plant bearing archegoniophores, and then swim up the stalk of the archegoniophore to ferilize the egg cells nestled under the "palm fronds". The zygote develops into the sporophyte, which is little more than a cluster-bomb full of spores. Really though, liverworts are at least as interesting as another variety of Drosera spathulata. Don't kill them, collect them! Michael (PS. about my reference to carnivorous (man-eating!) liverworts... that post was just a joke! :-) (PPS. anyone got hornworts _Anthoceros_, _Notothylas_, Dendroceros_, or _Megoceros_ in their weed collection?) ################### From: Dan Sorensen 814-757-9382 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 00:54:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE:Chris's nepenthes cuttings On Jan 11 Chris wrote: >With that in mind, I am getting ready to whack back my plants. I plan on >keeping a few cutting for my experiments, but I don't have room for them all. >So if you want cuttings of the following plants and are willing to pay for >postage, they can be yours. The cuttings will be from: >N.mirabilis (Thai variety) >N.ventricosa (a very nice specimen) >N.alata (also, a nice specimen) >I plan on doing the deed in February or March, depending on the weather. >So if you want some of the cuttings, respond between now and then. I am interested in a cutting or two. I would E-mail directly, but my messages don't show the writer's address on messages from the list unless they include it in the body of the message. Sorry. So Chris, send me your address & maybe we can arrange something? Dan DSORENSE@psupen.psu.edu Russell, PA ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 20:22:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Weeds in CPs My most common weed in my CP pots is Erica or Calluna (known as Heather over here). I assume these were residents of wherever the peat came from. They are not a nuisance - if one grows too big that I can't pull it up without disturbing the CP, then I just cut it off at ground level. I have even transplanted some to grow and flower separately. I was slightly surprised that these seem happy in a water tray along with CP (and no plant food) - I had assumed that they normally grew in dryish conditions. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: John Taylor Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 21:48:20 +1100 Subject: Re: Weeds. >> Next time sterilize the media beforehand > >Once I tried sterilizing peat before sowing CP-seeds on it hoping to have >less problems with algae or mold. The opposite was true! Never before have >I observed such a quick growth of these. I suppose that boiling breaks >down the peat, probably by opening still closed cells within the remainder >of Sphagnum. Keeping this substrate under non sterile conditions after >boiling as e.g. your propagating case makes it a good medium for these. >Have other people observed similar things? I have tried boiling water to prevent algae growth in both pots and once for aquatic Utrics - didn't work either! I've had some serious outbreaks on algae on sphagnum too. Often the best way is to put up with moss smothering the plants as this seems to keep the algae at bay... The only time I had bad mould growth (in the peat) was after boiling water sterilization for Nepenthes seed germination - this particular tray was kept indoors under "Gladwrap" with bottom heat, so it was ideal conditions for it (but not the Nepenthes...) I've also had quite a few ferns (at least a couple of types) and a mystery plant which resembles heath is currently growing in one of the Sarracenia pots. I consider these bonuses - but they only seem to thrive when they share my CP pots :-( +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: John Taylor Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 22:01:29 +1100 Subject: Re: Summer and Tuberous Drosera >Well all, > > [lines deleted...] > >You can tell it's summer though because the bushfires have >started. Here's only hoping we don't have a really bad one. Or rather, the arsonists have started up yet again... :-( >No wonder the tuberous Drosera choose this time to stay underground. >Hopefully the fires will stimulate the Drosera into even better >growth and germination. > >Cheers >Terry Which reminds me... There was an article recently in one of the general gardening magazines about smoke treatment of seeds to improve germination rates. They showed a photo comparing two trays of Stylidium (triggerplant) seedling (one treated, one not) and germination rates appeared to be at least double. Other difficult species (such as some Kangaroo Paws) also responded well. This method could be worth investigating for treatment of Byblis and maybe even tuberous Drosera seed. I don't have the article on me (I just had a quick flick-through in the shop) but I could get it and post a summary if there's enough interest. BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 13:11:33 GMT Subject: (none) Quoth Andreas Wistuba: > By the way, I m just remembering that Joachim who s also on the list is > currently experimenting with a peat substitute made from coconut which > seems to work excellent for Nepenthes.... I've been using Coia (sp?) peat substitute for a couple of years for some of my plants ( Drosera, Sarracenia and Dionaea. ) Seems fine. It mixes better than regular peat ( fewer hard lumps, ) and has a nice fibrous consistency. I would be careful introducing new species to it, but I hope to get there in the end - it's a bit friendlier to the environment than peat. Probably carries fewer spore/seed contaminants too - it hasn't been sitting in a bog gathering them for centuries. Good growing, Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | Give it a try - you might Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, old account | like it... ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 14:36:06 -0800 Subject: Vermiculite, Seed media, Crossposting, Web access > I always had the impression that vermiculite promotes the growth of > moss and algae. I would'nt use it except for Ping's. Vermiculite is an alkaline media. It is inappropriate for CP except for certain pings (mostly the mexican varieties). Perlite is neutral and can be used to improve the drainage and aereation of your soil mix. Some have recently mentioned the problem that occurs when peat or sphagnum is sterilized by heat. I have heard some speculation that steam sterilization may rupture cells in the medium and release an abundance of carbohydrates (sugars). This triggers a bloom of mold growth. For this reason, it may be more advisable *not* to sterilize your media, but instead set up seed trays a year in advance. Once the mold has run its course and used up all the available sugars in the media, homeostasis sets in where the various microrganisms are in a state of equalibrium. Sowing seeds onto this "pre-aged" media may result in lower infection rates than either "new" peat from the bag, or steam sterilized media. I have noticed a similiar problem in my aquatic Utric tanks. For some months after initial filling, I have a bad algae problem. If I leave the tank alone (don't change the water, etc), it will eventually clear up and reach equilibrium once the excess nutrients have been used up. This results in crystal-clear water, with a 1/4" layer of green scum and bacteria in the bottom of the tank. > THE VENUS FLYTRAP TRADE IN NORTH AND SOUTH CAROLINA > From: TRAFFIC Bulletin 13(2): 68-72. > (Article by Jane C. MacKnight & Vonda Frantz - abbrev.) *Three* different people posted copies of this article to the mailing list. I was able to catch it in time to delete the extra postings so that users in DIGEST mode only got one copy. (To avoid this problem in the future, please don't repost big articles from other mailing lists. Send them to me for inclusion in the CP archive, and merely post a summary of the information to the group, with a note that they can get the whole thing from the archive.) If you are not running in DIGEST mode, I can't provide any of this sort of benign "censorship", so you got all three. Sorry about that. I very much recommend using DIGEST mode for this reason, and also to reduce the mess in your mailbox. In DIGEST mode you will only get one posting per day, with all the postings bundled together. If you have been considering UNSUBSCRIBING due to the heavy mail load, try DIGEST mode for some relief. To set this up, send the message: "SET CP MAIL DIGEST" to "listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com". >From Ivo: > WOuldn't it be possible to store the pictures of CPs also in > some other form accessible for us we haven't WWW? Your question was answered by the Peter Cole's recent posting. You can now use various telnet servers to access the CP WEB info. Best regards, -- Rick Walker ################### From: wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl (Wim Osterholt) Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 02:38:53 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: WWW access Peter Coler said: > > Aah, but we do have access to the WWW - yes, everyone on this > list! If you haven't got a browser of your own, there are telnet > WWW servers at : > info.cern.ch > eies2.njit.edu > vms.huji.ac.il > and info.funet.fi > Sorry Rick, don't be too optimistic. The stuff needs to be in the listserver. info.cern.ch is out of the game. eies2.njit.edu is out of the game either. vms.huji.ac.il will drive you crazy. info.funet.fi sometimes offers access to lynx, so you won't see GIF's. Worse, you won't be able to download files because they will end up in Finland (IF you already have write access). Mailing was disabled. > No telnet? OK, try the webmailer ( and if you haven't got Email, > how the hell are you reading this? :) Send a message to : > > agora@mail.w3.org > > with no subject and HELP as the body for details. And this I still have to try. Regards, Wim. ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- (wim@morgana.gds.nl) ################### From: MZieg1234@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 16:00:47 -0500 Subject: Culture contamination? Whenever I have put venus flytrap into sterile agar culture, I have had enormous problems getting sterile tissue. This has not been a problem with other non-carnivorous species. Is this just a passing observation of no import or could it be that the carnivorous species can utilize microflora for nutrition! Does anyone have any experience or feedback concerning this? ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 17:06:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Contamination. > > > Whenever I have put venus flytrap into sterile agar culture, I have > had enormous problems getting sterile tissue. This has not been a > problem with other non-carnivorous species. Is this just a passing > observation of no import or could it be that the carnivorous species > can utilize microflora for nutrition! Does anyone have any experience > or feedback concerning this? > > _Dionaea_ is the most commonly CP grown in vitro. It has been succesfully grown for many years. There may just be a problem with your sterilation technique. Do you start from tissue or from seeds? I've never successfully sterilized the tissue without massive die-off. But the seeds go quite well. I've never seen any documentation about symbiotic, or non-symbiotic for that matter, relationships between CP and microflora (fungii included). Do CP have mycrorrhizal fungii symbiosis as other plants do? Sounds like a thesis topic. JMS ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 13:00:16 GMT Subject: telnet webserver Wim: > Sorry Rick, don't be too optimistic. The stuff needs to be in the > listserver. > info.cern.ch is out of the game. Typical - they've gone and moved it - it's now at: telnet.w3.org just log on and type GO . The on-line manual says it will run in interactive mode ( for entering search patterns and the like I suppose, ) but I haven't figured out how yet, so haven't delved into the database proper. No pictures yet, ( at least I couldn't get at Rick's portrait. ) There appears to be a client program available to download files from the site via telnet - details on the server ( I haven't had time to check it out. ) This may be required for interactive mode...? > eies2.njit.edu is out of the game either. > vms.huji.ac.il will drive you crazy. Have to confess I haven't tried these two myself. I'm told they were working recently... > info.funet.fi sometimes offers access to lynx, so you won't see GIF's. But lynx will let you download gifs - you just can't see them laid out on the page... > Worse, you won't be able to download files because they > will end up in Finland (IF you already have write access). ...but that would be a bit of a problem. > Mailing was disabled. Hmmm, perhaps if a few of us asked them very nicely... :) >> No telnet? OK, try the webmailer ( and if you haven't got Email, >> how the hell are you reading this? :) Send a message to : >> >> agora@mail.w3.org >> >> with no subject and HELP as the body for details. > And this I still have to try. If you're using Lynx I don't expect you'll want to stick with it, but it's better than nothing if you've only got Email. I don't know if it will run interactively - I mailed the admin, but haven't heard back yet. Have fun, Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | Fun, fun, fun! Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, new account | ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 00:16:43 GMT Subject: wordsearch And the winner is ( drum roll, ) Jan Schlauer!! Congratulations! ( sorry about the spelling mistake - fortunately noone missed that one :) Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | solution available via Email Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | for anyone who wants it. ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:54:20 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Liverworts! According to Michael.Chamberland: > >> >> What's wrong with liverworts? If you leave them long enough you >> get pretty little 'palm trees' ( flowers? ) growing up from the >> main leaf. They don't seem to do any harm, and are a good >> indicator of moisture - if the liverworts go crispy, it's time >> to water your CPs :) >> I mean, short of napalm, how do you get it out of other pots? > >Those pretty little 'palm trees' are the dreaded archegoniophores of the >invasive _Marchantia polymorpha_! Beware! If you though the prolific >gemmae cups were effective at spreading the brood, just wait till those >archegoniophores open their bomb bays loaded with spores! > >Look around your collection and you may find both palm trees (archegonio- >phores) and umbrellas (antheridiophores). The antheridiophores produce >the sperm cells which must swim across to another plant bearing >archegoniophores, and then swim up the stalk of the archegoniophore >to ferilize the egg cells nestled under the "palm fronds". The zygote >develops into the sporophyte, which is little more than a cluster-bomb >full of spores. > >Really though, liverworts are at least as interesting as another >variety of Drosera spathulata. Don't kill them, collect them! > Yeesh - Personally I just want to get rid of the stuff! When I first saw the thing I thought it looked ok and was not bothering my plants _but_ when the rotten stuff fills the pot such that you cannot see the peat and stops the new leaves of my sarraceniae coming up then I tend to feel just a bit aggro towards it. That thick leaf and solid root mass seem to make an almost inpenetrable barrier. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 14:48:20 +0000 Subject: Re: Coir (Coconut fibre) Several mentions of using Coir (Coconut fibre) for CPs as an alternative to peat (which has been getting a bad press in the UK for several years due to destruction of bogs). I have only seen Coir sold as a complete potting medium for normal plants, so I assumed it had fertilizer, and maybe lime, included. Did those of you trying it find a variety which was just the straight stuff, or did you just try it anyway? I guess I might as well try some Drosera in each of the two varieties of Coir soil I have to hand. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:24:02 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Coir (Coconut fibre) According to Clarke Brunt: > >Several mentions of using Coir (Coconut fibre) for CPs >as an alternative to peat (which has been getting a bad >press in the UK for several years due to destruction of >bogs). > Hmmm when you say coir that cojures up in my mind fibrous stuff, where you can see the strands - it is available here to be used as lining for hanging baskets. The alternative peat I saw looked a lot like peat, in fact I believed it was peat until I read the fine print (thought the texture was not _quite_ right). Are we talking the same stuff here? -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 9:18:48 MEZ Subject: WWW... Rick, Wouldn't be possible to store the pictures of CPs also in some other form accessible for us we haven't a WWW account? Ivo ################### From: Ivo Koudela PGDS-KChF Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 9:24:57 MEZ Subject: Re: Vermiculite, Seed media, Crossposting, Web access Rick, Sorry for sending my question again. I thought it hadn't gone through as it had returned. Thanks for your patience...:-) Ivo ################### From: MWM@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 10:43:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: Alternative growing media I have on occassion received nepenthes cuttings rooted in hydrophilic rockwool. They seem to do well, although I was cautioned that not all species like it. The longevity of rockwool seems a plus in ease of repotting with minimal shock to the plant. Any comments? Mike ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:34:30 +0100 Subject: cancer warning! (was Re: Alternative growing media) Mike! > I have on occassion received nepenthes cuttings rooted in hydrophilic >rockwool. They seem to do well, although I was cautioned that not all species >like it. One of the species who do allegedly not like it is _Homo sapiens_. Indeed, rockwool fines are suspected to increase the risk of pneumonic cancer if inhaled (nearly as dangerous as asbestos fibres). It is only considered dangerous to handle (dry) rockwool in large amounts without protection for protracted periods of time so far but you should be careful, anyway. Avoid (ingestion or) inhalation. You do not need to throw any plants away, but I would not recommend rockwool as a growing media for the reason mentioned. This message is not a joke (for a change). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 14:54:57 -0800 Subject: Mycorhizial fungi and Web access Jeffrey writes: > I've never seen any documentation about > symbiotic, or non-symbiotic for that matter, relationships between CP > and microflora (fungii included). Do CP have mycrorrhizal fungii > symbiosis as other plants do? Sounds like a thesis topic. This is curious. I just put some Drosophyllum seeds into culture. (0.5MS) The sterilization in one flask was inadequate and I now have a baby-food jar completely overun with what looks like pure white mycelium. The interesting thing is that the seedlings seem to be thriving! They are now 2cm tall with healthy red glands. Could this fungus be some beneficial symbiont? Maybe I should bottle it and sell it as a Drosophyllum soil innoculant :-). Ivo writes: > Wouldn't be possible to store the pictures of CPs also in some other > form accessible for us we haven't a WWW account? I'll see what I can do. The main web page is not on the internal HP network so it is a hassle to get information back and forth. Maybe I can automate this somehow. Somehow each photo must be usefully indexed and kept with its corresponding caption and copyright notice. The pictures currently have names like: "0047.gif", and are only described by reference to a modified copy of Jan's world CP list. The idea was not to make a directory of CP "clipart", but to provide an interactive database for coherently organizing a huge collection of CP text and graphics. We have 2 Gigabytes set aside for the CP database project. This is much more than anyone would really want to download. We don't even have this much space on the listserv machine itself. If you can wait a year or so, we're hoping to put a snapshot of this thing on CD-ROM for home/school use. ... Hmm. maybe I could run a listserv-web gateway here? The listserver can be set up to run any shell script. I could make a program access the local CP database and link it into the listserv. You could run it something like: RUN CP my_password CP_QUERY "Sarracenia" This would return an html-formatted excerpt from the database for all Sarracenia entries. Inside this file would be references to various GIFS. These could be gotten with something like: RUN CP my_password CP_GETGIF "0049.gif" any comments? -- Rick ################### From: wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl (Wim Osterholt) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 00:21:27 +0100 (MET) Subject: web access Rick writes: > > I'll see what I can do. The main web page is not on the internal > HP network so it is a hassle to get information back and forth. Maybe > I can automate this somehow. > ... Hmm. maybe I could run a listserv-web gateway here? The listserver > can be set up to run any shell script. I could make a program access the > local CP database and link it into the listserv. You could run it > something like: > > RUN CP my_password CP_QUERY "Sarracenia" > > This would return an html-formatted excerpt from the database for all > Sarracenia entries. Inside this file would be references to various > GIFS. These could be gotten with something like: > > RUN CP my_password CP_GETGIF "0049.gif" > > any comments? Looks nice. You don't mention this here, but don't forget that the binaries have to be encoded (preferrably uuencoded) before mailing. (Normal mail generally won't handle 8-bits transfers correctly.) The receiver then has to decode (uudecode) the message to extract the binary. The binary can be shown by viewers as QPEG or CSHOW (on DOS machines). Regards, Wim. ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- (wim@morgana.gds.nl) ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:50:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mycorhizial fungi Rick, > > This is curious. > > I just put some Drosophyllum seeds into culture. (0.5MS) > The sterilization in one flask was inadequate and I now have a baby-food > jar completely overun with what looks like pure white mycelium. > > The interesting thing is that the seedlings seem to be thriving! They > are now 2cm tall with healthy red glands. Could this fungus be some > beneficial symbiont? > > Maybe I should bottle it and sell it as a Drosophyllum soil innoculant :-). Do you know any mycologists? They might be able to id your fungi and then would be able to give you some information on the genus (maybe even species) in question. Maybe lead to a conclusion about symbiosis. If you don't know anyone, I do, as others probably do. JMS ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 18:15:25 PST Subject: Re: Web Access Rick: Using the listserver would be usefull to those, like myself, who don't have a T-1 or PPP access to the net (yet); although I'm not sure how to read html formatted stuff. -BJ ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 22:36:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Web Access On Mon, 16 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > Rick: > Using the listserver would be usefull to those, like myself, who don't > have a T-1 or PPP access to the net (yet); although I'm not sure how > to read html formatted stuff. > -BJ If your server uses Lynx (text based browser) then to get to the Web site press the letter 'g' which prompts for URL to go to and just type http:\\www.hpl.hp.com/browser/modified.html. Gets you right to the CP stuff. It does for me anyway. The only problem I've found is that it sometimes is too busy. harold ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 19:51:54 PST Subject: Re: Web Access > > On Mon, 16 Jan 1995, Brian Jones wrote: > > > Rick: > > Using the listserver would be usefull to those, like myself, who don't > > have a T-1 or PPP access to the net (yet); although I'm not sure how > > to read html formatted stuff. > > -BJ > > If your server uses Lynx (text based browser) then to get to the Web > site press the letter 'g' which prompts for URL to go to and just type > http:\\www.hpl.hp.com/browser/modified.html. Gets you right to the CP > stuff. It does for me anyway. The only problem I've found is that it > sometimes is too busy. > > harold > Nope, No Lynx. I do have gopher. Will that work? -BJ ################### From: nkenny@earthlink.net Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 23:25 PST Subject: Hello Hi our names are Neal & Magdalena, we are delighted to be new members of your group. Both of us are newcommers to the study and proagation of CP's. We are seeking support in acquiring our first CP, and tips on it's proper care. We are also interested in finding written resources to assist us in our studies. Any information you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you. ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:14:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: re:Hello Dear Neal & Magdalena, I can send you some Drosera dielsiana seed within one week or so (I was so stupid to throw away all te old flower stalks from my plants last week) for seed of the other species, D. capensis D. intermedia 'cuba' and D.spatulata you have to be patient. I also have to divide my Utricularia alpina, so you can have a piece, but I don't know if it's possible to send it without CITES and phytosanitary papers (otherwise it will become a little bit expensive). Anybody else on this list knows? BTW, you have to give me your adress if I send it to you, mail it to me personally, my mail adress: Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl About books: I can recommend Adrian Slack's book: insect-eating plants & how to grow them (already a classic) ISBN 0 906670 42 X. Martin ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 07:35:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Mycorhizial fungi and Web access > This would return an html-formatted excerpt from the database for all > Sarracenia entries. Inside this file would be references to various > GIFS. These could be gotten with something like: > > RUN CP my_password CP_GETGIF "0049.gif" For those of us without web access, this would be a wonderful thing if you could get it to work. As far as I know there's no way to get the pictures where they are with my system. ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 09:47:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Alternative growing media > > > I have on occassion received nepenthes cuttings rooted in > hydrophilic > rockwool. They seem to do well, although I was cautioned that not all > species like it. The longevity of rockwool seems a plus in ease of > repotting with minimal shock to the plant. Any comments? > > > Mike > > Mike: Several observations: I recently potted several cuttings of N. kampotiana, two were in rockwool and three were in live sphagnum. Although all survived, I felt the growth in the sphagnum was better. Among other things, the rockwool did not stay firmly packed around the stem of the cutting. Any movement of the bag tended to make the cutting move around, potentially injuring the newly forming roots. The growth of the rockwool cuttings was also a little slower, but not a great big difference. I eventually removed all the rockwool I could and added sphagnum. The other concern is getting rid of the rockwool, because its so dense and matted, you can't really pull it off the plant because you can't separate it to see the roots. So if you use it, it seems like you are stuck with it. Tom in Fl ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 10:16:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Seed Experiences II Hi Folks! The general consensus on Doug and Vivi Rowland's operation is positive (4 responses). 1) the amount of seed per packet is large. 2) germination rates of 50-75% 3) good customer service 4) Although located in the UK, they also accept personal checks in US$. 5) about 105 varieties listed Neutrals: Main catalog emphasis on Succulents Negatives: Occasional failure of "easy" species. Address: Doug and Vivi Rowland 200 Spring Road, Kempston Bedford, England MK42 8ND Standard Disclaimer. Jeff ################### From: Martin=Zevenbergen%Algem%PT.WAU@Vines2.WAU.NL Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 16:42:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: P. morrii some days ago there was a question about the name Pinguicula morrii, if this is a published name. Well, I searched in the Index Kewensis on CD-rom, and there isn't a P. morrii. The only resembling name is P. moranensis. For everybody who doesn't know what the Index Kewensis is: this is a list with all the published plant names since 1753, when Linnaeus published his Species Plantarum. In this list are also included all the rejected names (e.g. later published synonyms). The only other possibility left is that P. morrii was an invalid publication (according to the ICBN (=International Code for Botanical Nomenclature)), but I think this isn't likely. ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 17:44:12 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Alternative growing media > Among other things, > the rockwool did not stay firmly packed around the stem of the cutting. Any > movement of the bag tended to make the cutting move around, potentially > injuring the newly forming roots. I observed the same, if Nepenthes were growing in volcanic soil. I once was given a plant perfectly growing when visiting another grower in Germany. I transported the plant to my home by car (around 2 hours drive) After that the plant did not grow any more. A check after some weeks showed that most of the roots were broken or cut by the sharp lava particles. I think some soft substance in the medium like peat, Sphagnum, bark... helps to prevent such damage which otherwise may occur when moving plants. Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 17:46:34 GMT+1 Subject: CD-ROM > Well, I searched in the Index Kewensis on CD-rom.... How much is the CD-ROM? Where can one get it? How often are the updates published? Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 12:29 EST Subject: CD-ROM Last I saw, the Index Kewensis ROM CD was over $1000 US. And that's only one disk! Michael ################### From: jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 12:52:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Index Kewensis I was also interested on possibly getting Index Kewensis on CD-ROM until I saw the price posted here! So much for that idea. I would really like to have access to the Index data - does anyone know if there is a gopher or telnet site out there that offers the Index? I would really like to have it immediately available at home, but $1000 is an awful lot for convenience sake, so I'm sure I sure I could live with on-line access of some sort if it's available. :) TIA John jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu ################### From: Alexander Salomon Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 13:51:04 EST Subject: Nepenthes at the US Botanical Gardens For those who live in the DC area who have never seen a Nepenthes in flower, the US Botanical Gardens have 3 specimens, one of which is currently sending up an inflorescence. There are 2 hybrids and one species which can be found in the Bromeliad room. You have to look for them though. The one that is flowering is on the left side as you face the adjoining cactus room. It is low to the ground. It is too early to say if it is male or female. It is labelled Nepenthe s burkeii, though upon examination, I think it may be N. ventricosa. The few remaining pitchers are somewhat dry, so it is difficult to assess for certain, but on exam, the pitchers do not appear to have a pubescent surface, which I am told is one of the major differences between the two species. Some say they are variants of the same species. In any case, while there, if it isnt too cold be sure and look outside at the pitcher bog. The S. leucophyllas still are quite attractive in light of the mild(so far) Winter and the protected location in which they are situated. The S.purpureas of course look reasonably nice the year round. -alex ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 19:34:26 +0100 Subject: Re: P. morrii, IK &c. Dear Martin, >some days ago there was a question about the name Pinguicula morrii, if this >is a published name. >Well, I searched in the Index Kewensis on CD-rom, and there isn't a P. >morrii. The only resembling name is P. moranensis. Before I published the very 1st edition of my nomenclatural synopsis (1987), I have of course had searched the Index Kewensis (IK), too. Thus, a name of a cp not included in my synopsis (available from the archives of this list; Index Kewensis isn't) or in the www database is probably not worth IK research. Anyway, TNX for your efforts (it's always nice to see other people can't read more in the same book than I). >For everybody who doesn't know what the Index Kewensis is: this is a list >with all the published plant names since 1753, when Linnaeus published his >Species Plantarum. For everybody who doesn't know what my synopsis is: it does include also quite a lot (I hope most) of the early infraspecific taxa (which were omitted in the first vols. of IK; this causes considerable problems for people working on infraspecific classification!). > In this list (...i.e. IK...) >are also included all the rejected names (e.g. later published synonyms). At least many of them (cf. "Utricularia floribunda")... Please do not misunderstand me. I agree that IK is an invaluable tool for taxonomic and especially nomenclatural work. And it is of course not restricted to cp (my synopsis is, unfortunately)! I just have tried to add some (as I think important) further information in my synopsis, which rather obviously does not deviate from IK except for some details (homonyms, types, chromosome counts, bastard formulae). I do of course invite any comment on (and especially improvement of) my synopsis, however. Nobody (& no index) is perfect. But as this world isn't perfect either, we can still hope to create useful images of this world...8-) > The only other possibility left is that P. >morrii was an invalid publication (according to the ICBN >(=International Code for Botanical Nomenclature)), but I think this >isn't likely. Another possibility is that it was never published at all. An especially severe case of invalid publication, I'm afraid. Maybe we should call it "virtually inexistent publication"; the resulting name being a "nomen vacuum". Kind regards Jan ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 15:32:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Nepenthes at the US Botanical Gardens > It is labelled Nepenthes burkeii, though upon examination, I think it may be N. ventricosa. The few > remaining pitchers are somewhat dry, so it is difficult to assess for certain, > but on exam, the pitchers do not appear to have a pubescent surface, which I am > told is one of the major differences between the two species. Some say they > are variants of the same species. I was aware of the two very distinct color variations in N. ventricosa with concomitant pitcher variations is this part of the difference you are talking about? Tom in Fl ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 15:43:44 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes planting media I received a mailer daemon indicating one of my recent posts had been undelivered. So I am condensing and repeating it. If it did get through, sorry for the repeat. My comment was on media for Nep. seeds. I recently tried peat/sand, dried long fiber sphagnum (dried means commercially purchased dry and then wetted and allowed to stand), and living sphagnum. The peat/sand and dried sphagnum were microwaved to sterilize them. Two species were planted in two different trays each divided into thirds. The best germination for both occurred on the dried sphagnum. Differences were very noticeable. One unusual finding was that neither species sprouted on live sphagnum, even tho I have had moderate germination in the past with this medium. Tom in Fl. ################### From: wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl (Wim Osterholt) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 22:00:45 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Web Access Harold: > If your server uses Lynx (text based browser) then to get to the Web > site press the letter 'g' which prompts for URL to go to and just type > http:\\www.hpl.hp.com/browser/modified.html. Gets you right to the CP > stuff. It does for me anyway. The only problem I've found is that it > sometimes is too busy. Wow, this works great. The byte counter is pausing sometimes for half a minute or so, but the stuff gets transferred. (BTW, is it 'transferred' or is it (as lynx says) 'transfered'?) I don't know what magic is involved here, but there is only one little confusing thing to mention. Most entries are mentioned to be 00xx.gif . I move the bar on such an entry, then I press . This gives me a screen of text with the word 'text' highlighted as the only possible choice. I press again and now it says that the screen cannot be displayed on my terminal. It offers nicely the possibility to download this file. Pressing the 'd' shows the miraculous result: the file arrives on my machine. It puzzles me why these files are indicated by the word 'text'. Regards, Wim. ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- (wim@morgana.gds.nl) ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 16:55:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Web Access On Tue, 17 Jan 1995, Wim Osterholt wrote: > Wow, this works great. The byte counter is pausing sometimes for half a > minute or so, but the stuff gets transferred. > (BTW, is it 'transferred' or is it (as lynx says) 'transfered'?) On my server it first transfers to the servers computer. It then asks if I want to save it to disk (5 megs alloted to me) or download to my computer. At 57,600 throughput it takes but a blink :) > I don't know what magic is involved here, but there is only one little > confusing thing to mention. Most entries are mentioned to be 00xx.gif . > I move the bar on such an entry, then I press . This gives me a > screen of text with the word 'text' highlighted as the only possible choice. > I press again and now it says that the screen cannot be displayed > on my terminal. It offers nicely the possibility to download this file. > Pressing the 'd' shows the miraculous result: the file arrives on my > machine. It puzzles me why these files are indicated by the word 'text'. I wondered about that too. Probably just the way the person who put it on the site did it. harold ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 17:47:00 GMT Subject: Coir peat substitute Clarke Brunt wrote : > I have only seen Coir sold as a complete potting medium > for normal plants, so I assumed it had fertilizer, and > maybe lime, included. > > Did those of you trying it find a variety which was just > the straight stuff, or did you just try it anyway? 'Wessex Cocopeat' - 100% coir with no nutritious additives ( I think they probably rot it a bit to improve the texture. ) Got mine from the local garden centre - Wyevale, but I'm sure others stock it. It comes as a loose sack rather than compressed bales ( like peat, ) but I can't remember how much it cost. The coir-based composts are probably as bad as peat-based ones - all those dreaded nutrients! I don't know the pH exactly, but it sure turns litmus red, so I doubt there's any lime added. Good growing, Peter Peter Cole |carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk| wondering what the hell to do Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | with the 500+ D. capensis I planted on impulse in August... ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 17 Jan 95 19:49:49 EST Subject: Re: CP digest 225 I would like to reply to the following message, but first, I would like to know who sent it in. (I often see messages with no author, just an address). >Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 16:00:47 -0500 >From: MZieg1234@aol.com >To: CP@opus.hpl.hp.com >Subject: Culture contamination? >Message-ID: <950115160045_2011293@aol.com> >Whenever I have put venus flytrap into sterile agar culture, I have had >enormous problems getting sterile tissue. This has not been a problem with >other non-carnivorous species. Is this just a passing observation of no >import or could it be that the carnivorous species can utilize microflora for >nutrition! Does anyone have any experience or feedback concerning this? Also, tell me how you are sterilizing the tissue? I have grown many VFTs in vitro cultures initiated with seed and plant tissue. While tissue (ie. leaves, rhizome pieces, etc.) is hard to clean up, it can be done. Unopened flower buds are also valuable for this purpose. Ron Gagliardo Atlanta Botanical Garden ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 17:24:29 -0800 Subject: 1995 California CP Meeting Schedule Here are some dates for the next Los Angeles and Bay Area CP Meetings: Jan. 21 Los Angeles Meeting will be held at the Alhambra Chamber of Commerce, 104 S. First Street at 12:00 Noon, with doors opening at 11:30. Contact Tom Johnson at (818) 248-1623 for details. Feb. 11 BACPS Meeting, Lincoln School, Alameda, from 12:00 to 4:00. Speaker will be Rick Walker, giving a slide show and talk on "CP Tissue Culture in the Home Kitchen". May 6 BACPS Meeting, Lincoln School Aug. 12 BACPS Meeting, Lincoln School Nov. 11 BACPS Meeting, Berkeley Botanic Gardens Contact me by email if you need directions to the BACPS meeting. -- Rick Walker ################### From: Ronnie Spears Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 20:19:12 -500 (EST) Subject: logon Logon ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 20:39:09 -0500 Subject: subscribe Logon Ronnie Spears ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 20:53:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: Thanks, I have sent request to new address ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 00:28:30 GMT Subject: WWW access Rick Walker wrote: > so, we're hoping to put a snapshot of this thing on CD-ROM for > home/school use. Now that does sound good :) > ... Hmm. maybe I could run a listserv-web gateway here? > any comments? And that sounds even better :) ------------------------------------------- Brian Jones writes: > Rick: > Using the listserver would be usefull to those, like myself, who don't > have a T-1 or PPP access to the net (yet); although I'm not sure how > to read html formatted stuff. > -BJ A browser ( such as Lynx, ) can read .html files locally, so you can use it offline to read pages you've downloaded. Even if you haven't a copy, the text is readable ASCII with a few html control codes dotted about - it just won't be laid out so nicely. Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | enjoying my new terrarium :) Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 21:24:44 -0500 Subject: Introduction Hello, My name is Ronnie Spears. I am a graduate student at Georgia Southern University. I only have a hobbyist interest in CP, but I do know several that are working on pitcher plants here. Please send me mail. I want to make sure that I am online before I give the big spill. cheers Ronnie Spears gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu ################### From: nkenny@earthlink.net Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 20:22 PST Subject: re:Hello >Dear Neal & Magdalena, >I can send you some Drosera dielsiana seed within one week or so (I was so >stupid to throw away all te old flower stalks from my plants last week) for >seed of the other species, D. capensis D. intermedia 'cuba' and D.spatulata >you have to be patient. I also have to divide my Utricularia alpina, so you >can have a piece, but I don't know if it's possible to send it without CITES >and phytosanitary papers (otherwise it will become a little bit expensive). >Anybody else on this list knows? >BTW, you have to give me your adress if I send it to you, mail it to me >personally, my mail adress: Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl >About books: I can recommend Adrian Slack's book: insect-eating plants & how >to grow them (already a classic) ISBN 0 906670 42 X. > >Martin > > Martin, Thanks so much for you support. Magdalena and I will stick with just the seeds (so it's not to expensive) we will also reimburse you for any postage costs. or address is Neal and Magdalena 21533 Deerpath Lane Malibu, CA 90265 U.S.A. As for the book, I'll be ordering it tomorrow. Thanks again Martin. ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 00:18:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Sterilization of VFT.. > Also, tell me how you are sterilizing the tissue? I have grown many > VFTs in vitro cultures initiated with seed and plant tissue. While > tissue (ie. leaves, rhizome pieces, etc.) is hard to clean up, it > can be done. Unopened flower buds are also valuable for this purpose. > > > Ron Gagliardo Atlanta Botanical Garden > > I've had great difficulty with sterilizing VFT tissue itself. Could you possibly relay your proceedure, so one of us interestes can see. I've tried a 2 min soak in 70% EtOH and then 5-10 minutes in 5% bleach. Alot of tissue seems to die, and others are still contaminated. Strange. Thank you. JMS ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 08:40:25 +0000 Subject: Re: Coir (Coconut fibre) > Hmmm when you say coir that cojures up in my mind fibrous stuff, where > you can see the strands - it is available here to be used as lining > for hanging baskets. The alternative peat I saw looked a lot like > peat, in fact I believed it was peat until I read the fine print > (thought the texture was not _quite_ right). Are we talking the same > stuff here? Of the two varieties of Coir 'peat substitute' I have seen, one was quite fibrous, while the other was darker, fine grained, and looked a lot more like peat. I guess it depends how finely they grind up the coconut shells, or whatever they do with them. We also see bags of cocoa shells (the stuff chocolate is made from) as a soil additive, or a top-dressing for gardens. Unfortunately, these supposedly waste products tend to cost more than peat, which is a bit of a disincentive. SOrry this is getting off the CP track, but someone did say they were growing CP in Coir. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:43:35 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Alternative growing media > > > Among other things, > > the rockwool did not stay firmly packed around the stem of the cutting. Any > > movement of the bag tended to make the cutting move around, potentially > > injuring the newly forming roots. > > I think some soft substance in the medium like peat, Sphagnum, > bark... or rock*WOOL* > helps to prevent such damage which otherwise may occur when > moving plants. > > > Andreas > Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany > Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de > Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 > Albeit being suspected to cause cancer rockwool fibres are *MUCH* bigger than those of asbestos and, hence, less (if at all) dangerous. However rockwool should be taken with care, particular when dry (as well as per- lite) unless proven "innocent". Some days ago I also read that a type of rockwool has been invented which is "biodigestable", that is if breathed in the particles dissolve in your lungs. There were no claims made whether this may strengthen your bones. :-) As with perlite, I believe there are different qualities of rockwool available, i.e. those for gardening purpose and those to be used for insulation in houses. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:16:58 -0500 Subject: Cephalotus f. Hi, I am new on the CP server. I am a grad student at Georgia Southern University. My interests are in the Nepenthes and Cephalotus. I have grown CP for the last 10-15 years. I cannot really remember how long I have grown them. In addition, I have traveled to many location throughout hte southeast to locate species. We have a lot here in GA. Most are "protected" though. I am looking for addresses of CP sources. I would also be interested in finding a medium to large cephalotus plant or seeds. Can anyone help? Any way I was really excited to find this server. Ronnie Spears GA. Southern University gsai0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 07:24:33 -0800 Subject: fungi appearing in Nepenthes seed tray Hi all: Little fuzzy white fungi are starting to appear in my Nepenthes seed sprouting tray. What's the best remedy without killing the seeds? I was thinking of treating them with a very mild, very very dilute aerial copper spray. Would they survive, or is there a better way? ---Steve ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 08:10:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: mail and NZ Rick/Jan-: Thanks. Mail is being received again. Fraser/John/Peter/Andrew-: Thanks for your offers re my trip to NZ. I hope to see some of you when I visit. -Pat ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 11:19:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: fungi appearing in Nepenthes seed tray > Little fuzzy white fungi are starting to appear in my > Nepenthes seed sprouting tray. What's the best remedy > without killing the seeds? I was thinking of treating > them with a very mild, very very dilute aerial copper > spray. Would they survive, or is there a better way? > > ---Steve I've been misting my seed beds with Benomyl (1 tsp per gal) on a regular basis and I don't get any fungus growing at all - lots of geen slime, but no fungus. Dave ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 11:57:13 -0500 Subject: RAIN Has anyone in No. Cal. seen or heard from Peter d'Amato? ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 17 Jan 1995 22:26:00 +0100 Subject: Re: Index Kewensis Dear John, you wrote: > I was also interested on possibly getting Index > Kewensis on CD-ROM until I saw the price posted > here! So much for that idea. The same holds true for me :-( The price is horribly high. > I would really > like to have access to the Index data - does > anyone know if there is a gopher or telnet site > out there that offers the Index? Please post these data here on the list. I d also be very very interested in having access to such an online database. An I'm sure many others on the list as well....:-) All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 20:57:22 -0700 Subject: Mailing address Hello Family I got my P.O. Box today so any one who wants to contact me via snail mail can now do so. It is I.C.P.S. C/O Kevin Snively P.O. Box 1013 Everett Wa. 98206-1013 U.S.A. My Phone number is still 206-252-2911 I haven't got my signature card yet nor do I know what bank we are at, also Leo Song has voiced a desire to keep the business office in Fullerton, so I'd rather not accept checks or payments for subscriptions at this time. I will however do so if you have had problems in the past and would be more comfortable that way. Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com Secretary/Treasurer I.C.P.S. ################### From: "Walter Greenwood" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 13:56:03 EST5EDT Subject: Re: RAIN Becky, and everyone else, I just spoke with Peter. He's alive and well, still in business, although, in his words, "Everything around us is destroyed." He thanks everyone for their concern. His phone works now. After a previous flood, he took the hint and bought a house on TOP of a hill. His neighborhood made the news, and what with having to take a boat to the greenhouse to (get this!) *water* the plants, the media made a sort of humorous human-interest story out of it. Who says floods can't be fun? Pete says they should be back to normal in 3 weeks or so, and he expects the spring price list to be ready in early March. Anyone who ordered last year will receive it automatically. All you Bobs fans out there: Let's hear a rousing chorus of "Mopping, mopping, mopping". Becky and other CAlifornians, how are you making out in all of this? Walter ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 13:12:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: cancer warning! (was Re: Alternative growing media) On Mon, 16 Jan 1995, Jan Schlauer wrote: > One of the species who do allegedly not like it is _Homo sapiens_. Indeed, > rockwool fines are suspected to increase the risk of pneumonic cancer if > inhaled (nearly as dangerous as asbestos fibres). > > It is only considered dangerous to handle (dry) rockwool in large amounts > without protection for protracted periods of time so far but you should be > careful, anyway. Avoid (ingestion or) inhalation. > > Jan > Hi everyone, After quite some time I've returned. Unfortunately I'm not able to check my mail every day because my deadlines are up for the magazine, so I have no time to talk with you all. Anyway, in regards to the Rockwool/cancer info. As you may or may not know, hydroponic gardeners choose to use Rockwool as a medium very frequently. For those who are unfamiliar with me, I'm an editor for a high-tech growing mag. that most often features hydroponic articles. Of all the commercial hydro. growers I've worked with (who use Rockwool), not one has mentioned this evil aspect of Rockwool. But if you're worried about it, I have great news. There is new medium much like Rockwool on the market called Bono-Gro. It's completely safe AND BIODEGRADABLE! If anyone is interested in learning more, give B.I.T. Tech. a call for info. Their number is: 919-319-6710. - Trish >tcoene@csos.orst.edu> > ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:37:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: CD-rom, IK, RE: Hello I will answer some questions from yesterdays digest: Andreas wrote yesterday: >How much is the CD-ROM? About Dfl 3000,- (That's about $1700,- ) >Where can one get it? Oxford press, if you are still interested :) >How often are the updates published? The disc we have now, is the first one, so there is no update yet, somebody from our deartment wrote a letter to the publisher with this question, but we have no answer yet.... Maybe they don't know it themselve..:-) John wrote: >does anyone know if there is a gopher or telnet site out there that offers >the Index? No, not that I know. I know they are busy with that at the Kew Herbarium, but not ready yet, I presume. We want to connect our CD-rom with our internal network first, and I don't think it will become available on internet on a short term. The problem is also that you need special software to use the CD- rom, maybe it's possible to supply this also by internet, but I'm no computer authority.... Jan wrote: >>Well, I searched in the Index Kewensis on CD-rom, and there isn't a P. >Before I published the very 1st edition of my nomenclatural synopsis >(1987), I have of course had searched the Index Kewensis (IK), too. Thus, a >name of a cp not included in my synopsis (available from the archives of >this list; Index Kewensis isn't) or in the www database is probably not >worth IK research. Sorry, I didn't knew of the existance of this synopsis, but I have to say that the IK on CD-rom is updated up to and including 1993, so it's a little (only very little) more up to date. I don't think that a lot of Ping's are added since 1987, but you never know. (I didn't check the P. greenwoodii.. :)) In Utricularia a lot more happened since 1987 I presume, because in 1990 Peter Taylors monography was published. BTW: searching on CD-rom costs me less than 5 minutes..... >For everybody who doesn't know what my synopsis is: it does include also >quite a lot (I hope most) of the early infraspecific taxa (which were >omitted in the first vols. of IK; OK, I didn't know that. I do of course invite any comment on (and especially improvement of) my synopsis, however. >the resulting name being a "nomen vacuum". Yeah, great :-) and finally, Neal and Magdalena: >Martin, Thanks so much for you support. Magdalena and I will stick with >just the seeds (so it's not to expensive) OK, I will send it to you on monday. >we will also reimburse you for any postage costs. not necessary, it's only one stamp! Perhaps, if you have collected some more plants after some time you can send me back some seed which I don't have, that'll do. All the best, Martin ################### From: kirk martin Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 14:55:26 PST Subject: tissue culture requirements I have the chance to acquire some lab equipment at a decent price of which I th ink would be suitable for TC. Could someone let me know what items are pre-requ isites in order to do TC glassware or equipment wise (besides a laminar flow ho od) Thanks Kirk ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 16:35:20 -0700 (MST) Subject: Moss Thanks Just is just a quick thank you to all those who responded to my question. Looks like I'll be changing the way I grow seeds! John peredur@usa.net ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 20:30:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > I have the chance to acquire some lab equipment at a decent price of > which I t h > ink would be suitable for TC. Could someone let me know what items > are pre-req u > isites in order to do TC glassware or equipment wise (besides a > laminar flow h o > od) Thanks Kirk > > - Glassware is usually Pyrex, or some other form which withstand the stress of being steam sterilized (autoclaved). - You'll need a vessel in which to sterilize water - glass pipets which can be sterilized (they don't have to be graduated) an alternative is disposable pre-sterilized pipets - something to sterilize the agar/media in (usually a flask) - and vessels to place the media and plants themselves in - A balance is needed when measuring agar/glucose/etc - An autoclave or pressure cooker to sterilize things in. - Some sort of torch or flame to sterilize the mouth of the flasks before pouring - Chemicals - ethanol (can be purchased as Everclear/Gemclear Liquor in the 95% form) the 95% form is used to sterilzed the hood the 70% form is used to sterilze the seeds and tissues - Bleach - the % ranges for the application. - The media can be bought in the complete form or the components can be purchased separately and mixted together before sterilization. - Hormones are trickier. Off the top of my head, that's the minimum that I use. Other things include: a small centrifuge for seed settling, filter sterilization equiptment for the non-autoclavable chemicals, and because I'm indoors, a flourescent light setup. BTW, I may have forgotten some less used things. Does that help? JMS ################### From: rmiller@Synopsys.COM (Ron Miller) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 17:43:11 PST Subject: Beginner Questions Hi! I am new to the list, and thought I'd introduce myself. I have always been fascinated by carnivorous plants, although I never thought much about growing them. The other day, I was poking around rec.gardens and noticed the carnivorous plants mailing list. I was very pleased that such a mailing list existed, and subscribing to the mailing list has renewed my interest in carnivorous plants. Since then, I have been actively reading up on carnivorous plants and indoor gardening, and I have a few questions that have popped up that I have not been able to find an answer for. The first questions that I have are about setting up growing conditions for carnivorous plants. Since the climate that I live in is very dry, and I don't have room for a greenhouse, I suspect that I will need to set up a terrarium. I don't really have anywhere to put a terrarium where it will get optimum light, so I am planning on supplying artificial light. Since I am planning on growing several species that like a lot of sun, it seems that flourescent light will not be able to provide enough for the plants. As a result, I am planning on buying some HID lights. I am currently leaning towards buying a 175 Watt full-spectrum metal halide light. Is 175 Watts enough power for a very small setup? I realize that it is not much more money to buy a slightly higher power setup, but I am concerned about electricity usage (more for environmental reasons than actual cost), and I don't want to buy a more powerful setup than I need. Would I be better off buying a high pressure sodium setup? It seems that sodium lighting is more efficient, although metal halide has a more natural spectrum. As a result, I was leaning towards the metal halide setup (I also don't like the orange glow of the sodium lights). As far as plants go, I was hoping to set up terrariums with Dionaea, Drosera, Pinguicula, Sarracenia, and Cephalotus. Does anyone have suggestions as to species that would be easy to grow for a beginner using terrariums? Are any of these species easy to start from seed, or should I try to stick with ordering mature plants? Is it possible to grow the above species together in an terrarium? I realize that I probably should not group temperate and tropical species together, since the temperate species will need to be wintered at temperatures cold enough to kill the tropicals. Are there other concerns that I should be worried about? I would be interested in trying Nepenthes, but it seems that you need to have a greenhouse for these. Are there any Nepenthes that are small enough to be grown in a large terrarium? The final question that I have is with regards to ordering the plants. I got copies of the sellerlist/suppliers from the list server, so I now have plenty of sources. However, I am not interested in ordering any plants/seeds that were collected from the wild, and I was wondering if there is a way to tell where the source of a plant was. Are there suppliers I should avoid? Will suppliers be honest about their sources if I ask them? I apologize for the long posting and the many questions that I asked. Thanks in advance for any help. Ron ========================================================= Ron Miller, Phone: (415)694-4273 Synopsys, Inc. FAX: (415)965-8637 700 East Middlefield Road Internet: rmiller@synopsys.com Mountain View, CA 94043 ################### From: Bill Smith Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 17:55:15 PST Subject: Nepenthes in flower (Re: Nepenthes at the US Botanical Gardens) Alex's message reminded of the one and only time I've seen a Nepenthes (don't remember species or sex) in flower. I was in a local exotic plant shop, since closed down, being conducted through their CP greenhouse. It was fantastic. (Strangely, they misted and watered with LA water, which is quite hard and fairly basic, but who's to argue with success?) The CP guy pointed out a Nepenthes and asked had I ever seen one flower. We went to look at it more closely and he suggested I smell it. I did -- it was a strange, meaty (though not carrion-like like Stapelia). He asked "Well, what do you think it smells like?" "I don't know. Maybe dog food?" "Naw. An orgy -- definitely smells like an orgy." Anyone out there have anything to contribute on this line? ################### From: Bill Smith Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 17:58:36 PST Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements Could one of the TC practitioners please describe what a laminar flow hood is (and why one prefers them to Volkswagens)? Bill ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 21:42:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: fungi appearing in Nepenthes seed tray Hi, Steve, Copper is usually pretty nasty to CPs and many other plants like epiphytes. Something like Benomyl is probably better. Happy trapping, Chelsie On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Steven Klitzing wrote: > Hi all: > > Little fuzzy white fungi are starting to appear in my > Nepenthes seed sprouting tray. What's the best remedy > without killing the seeds? I was thinking of treating > them with a very mild, very very dilute aerial copper > spray. Would they survive, or is there a better way? > > ---Steve > > > > ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 21:41 EST Subject: Last Chance to Sea Cow In keeping with our ongoing off-topic discussion of extinct animals: Is anyone familiar with the Stellar's Sea Cow? I found a reference to it under dugong. The dugong is similar to a manatee, but it has a while- like tail, wheras the manatee has a paddle-shaped tail. What shape tail did the Stellar's Sea Cow have? Where did it live? How did it go extinct? Does this group of mammals have a fossil record? Were there giant species alive in the Pleistocene? What are these guys related to? I suspect NOT the seals. OB cp: These animals are probably formidable pests on cp populations, particularly Utricularia. Fortunately I have never had a manatee infestation in my aquatic Utricularia pails. Michael ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:13:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Coir (Coconut fibre) A word of warning.....Coconut peat is a very good growing medium, but has a tendency to turn to mud under constant wet conditions, making it danderous to use with Nepenthes and some others. John. E. Laroche ################### From: John Taylor Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:47:40 +1100 Subject: Smoke Germination article (partial) - LONGish >I'd be interested in a summary of the smoke treatment >article if you have time to post it. Thanks! > >Jeff >in NC I'll post it to everyone... "Smoking Out The Natives" by Malcom Campbell - in "Gardening Australia" magazine January 1995. " We all know that smoking is a health hazard, but fortunately 'smoking' your native plants in the garden is not. Dr Kingsley Dixon and Shauna Roche at the Kings Park Botanic Garden in Perth, WA, have been conducting trials to find Australian native plant species that respond to this germination mechanism. They have also been testing some Californian genera, with similar results emerging. As a gerneral rule, it seems that the smaller seeds break their dormancy when fumigated with smoke. The smoke does not appear to need any particular component, but tests have mostly used bush leaf litter as fuel. Following trials in the Kings Park greenhouses and Alcoa's Marrinup Nursery near Jarrahdale, the experts took their tents to the Kalamunda bush and tried the technique _en situ_. (That's _botanique_ for 'in the field' or, if you are a Latin scholar, it means 'in that position'.) The trials exposed s range of native plant seeds in propagation flats to smoke for 30 minutes, 60 minutes and 90 minutes respectively. Though the time required for germination varied slightly from species to species, it was found that, generally, 60 minutes gave good results for all species that responded to smoke. Dr Dixon and his team have now germinated over 70 species of Australian and Californian plant that have, up until now, proved to be very difficult to germinate from seed. Although only six _Verticordia_ species have been tested, they all responded to the smoke treatment. As a nurseryman, I wasted many hours trying to strike a range of splendid _Verticordia_ species with the result that only a few took root and subsequently died in their tubes - so the hope of growing these lovely 'feather flowers' from seed is a real boost to keen native plantsfolk." (Discussion about nice native species deleted to reduce length...) " We all know that fire encourages many of our terrestrial orchids to flower, because of the release of ethylene from the soil. We know that banksias need the heat of a fire to char their woody seed cones so that, when the fire has passed, the cooling cones can release their winged seed. Many of the legumes such as _Hardenbergia_, _Kennedia_, _Acacia_ and _Hovea_ species rely on fire to crack their hard seed coats, then germinate with the rains that follow. For some genera, the fire mearly reduces the competition for light and nutrients, giving the opportunistic plants a chance to grow. Australia has approximately 20,000 Australian native plant species. It is encouraging that, of the 200 tested by Kings Park, 70 have shown a positive response to smoke treatment. There are literally thousands of 'difficult-to- propagate' native plants worthy of growing in our gardens. Who knows which of them might respond to smoke germination? It's certainly worth a try. Dr Dixon, who is Assistant Director of Science & Education at Kings Park, West Perth, WA 6005 would love to hear of your successes, either by mail or by fax on (09) 322-5064, so why not give it a go? I can think of some fairly simple methods you might use at home in the propagation shed (using an old camping tent, perhaps?) which are similar to smoking fish - but I'll leave you to decide on your own methods!" >:-( " The ideal native plant seed-raising mixture is: 8 parts triple-washed sand, with 1 part of fine peat and 2 parts of perlite. The seed is surface-sown and covered only with sharp sand to the thickness of the seed. This will result in an incredibly thin layer of media for most fine seed natives. In the really dry areas of Australia, fine gravel of two-mm screening or sharp dry sand make the best surface mulch for seed sowing. Water initially by immersion rather than overhead until germination has occured. Otherwise, because of the surface tension of the water, you might wash the fine seed away. Light shadecloth is all the protection required. A glasshouse in January is seldom needed, unless you garden in the coldest parts of Australia." There is an article on this topic (the original...) "Smoke - A New Process for Germinating Australian Plants" by S. Roche, R. Dixon & J. Pate, two page article in "Australian Horticulture", 15 Sept-14 Oct 1994, published by Ramsay Ware Stockland Pty Ltd, Rural Press Victoria, PO Box 160, Port Melbourne, rrp. $4.80 at newsagents. (Now they tell me... I'll see if I can get hold of a photocopy of this article from RMIT's library when I go back...) BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: nkenny@earthlink.net Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 22:10 PST Subject: re:Hello >Dear Neal & Magdalena, >I can send you some Drosera dielsiana seed within one week or so (I was so >stupid to throw away all te old flower stalks from my plants last week) for >seed of the other species, D. capensis D. intermedia 'cuba' and D.spatulata >you have to be patient. I also have to divide my Utricularia alpina, so you >can have a piece, but I don't know if it's possible to send it without CITES >and phytosanitary papers (otherwise it will become a little bit expensive). >Anybody else on this list knows? >BTW, you have to give me your adress if I send it to you, mail it to me >personally, my mail adress: Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl >About books: I can recommend Adrian Slack's book: insect-eating plants & how >to grow them (already a classic) ISBN 0 906670 42 X. > >Martin Thanks for you help. Lets just stick to the seeds. I'llgladly pay the postage. Our address is: Neal & Magdalena 21533 Deerpath Malibu, CA 90265 U.S.A. I'll check the book out! Thanks!!! ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 23:08:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes in flower (Re: Nepenthes at the US Botanical Gardens) Gee, I don't know what an orgy smells like. I hope it doesn't smell like Nepenthes flowers, because *they* remind me of nothing so much as old mouse piss. :) It would make me wonder just what kind of people your friend was orgying with! > > "I don't know. Maybe dog food?" > > "Naw. An orgy -- definitely smells like an orgy." > > Anyone out there have anything to contribute on this line? > > ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 02:12 EST Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress > I recently had an accident with my large Nepenthes/Orchid case with a > large pane of glass breaking. I quickly transferred all of the > Nepenthes and orchids to my older tanks and repaired the glass by > replacing it with a new pane-actual -ly plexiglass this time around. > I used Dow Corning Silicone sealant to glaze the new piece in. I > allowed the sealant to dry and later transferred the plants Yes I have heard of vapors from silicone sealant damaging plants esp. drosera. Dave ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:28:48 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > > > - Some sort of torch or flame to sterilize the mouth of the flasks > before > pouring > > > - Chemicals > - ethanol (can be purchased as Everclear/Gemclear Liquor in the > 95% form) > the 95% form is used to sterilzed the hood Be careful no to blow up yourself and your hood. Ethanol fumes may build up explosives fumes (fume-air mixtures) in a closed compartment. ..Michael ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:06:38 GMT+1 Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > Could one of the TC practitioners please describe what a laminar flow > hood is (and why one prefers them to Volkswagens)? > A laminar flow hood is a compartment with a large (+/- one square meter) filter through which air is blown. THe filter keeps particles larger than 0,2 micrometers (the smallest known bacterial spores are larger than that size). You sit opposed to the filter in a continuous laminar stream of _sterile_ _dustfree_ air. BTW microchips, computer hard drives and CD's are manufactured also in environments with ultra clean air cleaned with the so called HEPA-filters. They're better than Volkswagens because they produce cleaner air. However I never tried to do tissue culture inside a Volkswagen. Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:13:04 GMT+1 Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > Be careful no to blow up yourself and your hood. Ethanol fumes may build > up explosives fumes (fume-air mixtures) in a closed compartment. > > ..Michael A laminar flow hood is not a closed environment but right the opposite. Because of the relatively fast stream of sterile air no buildup of dangerous Ethanol-gas concentrations can occur. Therefor one can safely work with Ethanol inside the hood. However do not use Ethanol in a glove box (closed environment) because this means working inside a bomb for the above reasons. Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 02:55 EST Subject: Re: Hello again > My next victim will be a N.rafflesiana. I am simply waiting for one of > my plants to get get big enough for a cutting. I have been growing N.rafflesiana in a low humidity environment (house hold levels) and it doesn't like at all. It does produce pitchers but these are small and short lived. It has been growing quickly as far I can tell, however. It's a heathly plant but the low humidity just knocks the pitchers off. Dave Evans ################### From: Seos mac Carthaigh Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:09:27 +0000 (GMT) Subject: American places It seems to me that our American cousins are increasingly using postal abreviations for their states (I think they're states) instead of spelling them out. This means that many people on Planet Earth haven't a bauldy notion where abouts on the North American continent the sender is! I got a message from a new member from GA (many welcomes BTW wherever you are). In Europe GA is a car Insurance company! The alternative is that us Euros will have to start using our abreviations (eg, SF,E,H,D,GB,NL). topic bit: my VFTs and Darlingtonia are covered in snow since the coldframes got blown away. seosamh (IRL) ################### From: korfhage@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 07:16:26 EST Subject: Re: American places The postal authorities here are strong on pushing the two-letter abbreviations for our states, in a drive for automatic mail processing and increased "postal efficiency." They don't think about how this leaves people, including many Americans, puzzled about what the abbreviations mean, or, the other way around, what the correct abbreviation for a given state is. Strangely, the post office seems to be getting less, not more, efficient! Usually the codes are fairly easy to figure out if you have a list of states handy. Often they are the first two letters, or the first and last letters of the name. States with two-word names get the obvious initial abbreviation (NY = New York). And a few abbreviations go back to fairly standard 'folk' abbreviations. An example is MO for Missouri. But the whole thing can be difficult without a full table. GA, by the way, is Georgia. Bob Korfhage korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 14:15:15 +0100 Subject: Re: American places Seosamh, GA is "*G*ood ole Georgi*A*" (sorry to all Georgian patriots! 8-)). >The alternative is that us Euros will have to start using our >abreviations (eg, SF,E,H,D,GB,NL). Maybe us cp-Euros should use the abbreviations used in "Flora Europaea", i.e. something like: Al, Au, Az, Be, Br, Bu, Co, Cr, Cz, Da, Fe, Ga, Ge, Gr, Hb, He, Ho, Hs, Hu, Is, It, Ju, Lu, Ma, No, Po, Rm, Rs, Sa, Si, Su, Tu. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Pekka Ala-Siuru Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:52:26 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: American places This is off cp discussion.. but SF is not anymore SF, it's FIN. :) ..Pekka ______________________________________________________ Pekka Ala-Siuru Senior Analyst, Embedded Knowledge-Based Systems VTT Electronics, P.O.Box 1100, FIN-90571, Oulu,Finland Tel. +358 81 551 2461, Telefax +358 81 551 2320 ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:11:20 -0500 Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements If anyone wants plans to construct an inexpensive Laminar-Flow Box, e-mail me direct, I will encode and zip the chapter dealing with that from my book entitled: A Hobbyist's Guide to Plant Tissue Culture (in press) and send it to you free of obligation.It is copyrighted, so do not publish, distribute or alter it in anyway without my permission. John E. Laroche (Sabercat1@aol.com) ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:11:17 -0500 Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements I've done quite a bit of culture, not just CP but plants of all types and a good substitute for EToH is plain old Vodka. It works and sure makes a long transfer session more enjoyable. John Laroche Miami, Fla Sabercat1@aol.com ################### From: Stan P Rachootin Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:26:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: This was an attempt to subscribe. On Wed, 18 Jan 1995 cp@opus.hpl.hp.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 14:46:02 -0800 From:cp@opus.hpl.hp.com To: > srachoot@mhc.mtholyoke.edu Cc: walker@opus.hpl.hp.com Subject: Error > Condition Re: > > > > We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which may > have been inadvertedly sent to this list: > > SUBSCRIBE CP STAN RACHOOTIN > > If your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and > resend your mail message, making sure you do not include anything that > may look like a request in the first line of the body of the actual > message. If this was indeed a request please resend it to > listproc@opus.hpl.hp.com Your entire message is copied below. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > SUBSCRIBE CP stan rachootin > ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:54:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Hello again > > > My next victim will be a N.rafflesiana. I am simply waiting for one of > > my plants to get get big enough for a cutting. > > I have been growing N.rafflesiana in a low humidity environment (house hold > levels) and it doesn't like at all. It does produce pitchers but these are > small and short lived. It has been growing quickly as far I can tell, however. > It's a heathly plant but the low humidity just knocks the pitchers off. > > Dave Evans > I am impressed with the growers who manage all kinds of Nepenthes in home environments. I can't imagine how you succeed in homes with central heat and air. Even here in Florida where the humidity is often 100%, I have several Nepenthes that simply do not like open air environments. They produce new healthy leaves but simply don't pitcher. In fact, if I have a plant that is not pitchering I invariably put it in a terrarium setup under lights, which has always turned the plant around. Tom in Fl ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:06:19 -0500 Subject: Re: RAIN I live between Sacramento and the Sonoma Coast. We had no problem, but as the news caster explained, it's because the clouds went up to clear the coast range and didn't start comming down until over Sacramento. I have stored 60+ gal of rain water, but now wonder about mosquitoes. I did not see Peter on the TV, but knew that he lived UP a hill. Redwoods thrive on this kind of innundation. A warning to everyone in the area. Thanks for asking, I have webbed feet now. Becky ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:11:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: American places Point taken and considered valid :-)! IRL= Internal Revenue ...? Sorry I just recieved my tax forms :-(. Promise to do better! Take care! Jeff in North Carolina (home of _Dionaea_) P.S. Who asked me about CP spots in North Carolina. I'm afraid I deleted your message, sorry. ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 08:17:09 -0800 Subject: Re: RAIN Hi Becky: If you want to prevent mosquitos from getting into your rainwater supply barrel...Take an eyedropper and add two or three drops of motor oil or 3 and 1 oil to the surface of the water. It will create a thin surface film of oil that will prevent any mosquitos from hatching...as it suffocates their eggs in the water. Simply skim it off the top with a disposable rag when you want to use the water. ---Steve ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:35:39 -0500 Subject: Re: American places > It seems to me that our American cousins are increasingly using postal > abreviations for their states (I think they're states) instead of > spelling them out. This means that many people on Planet Earth > haven't a bauldy notion > where abouts on the North American continent the sender is! I got a > message from a new member from GA (many welcomes BTW wherever you > are). In Europe GA is a car Insurance company! > > > The alternative is that us Euros will have to start using our > abreviations (eg, > SF,E,H,D,GB,NL). > > > topic bit: my VFTs and Darlingtonia are covered in snow since the > coldframes got > blown away. > > > seosamh (IRL) OOPS, Tom in Florida, an hour from the sovereign kindom of Mickey Mouse and just south of the Sarracenia swamps. ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:35:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Mosquitos in the water > If you want to prevent mosquitos from getting into your > rainwater supply barrel...Take an eyedropper and add two > or three drops of motor oil or 3 and 1 oil to the surface I have a problem with them hatching in the water trays during the summer, and since they carry heartworms, I'm very concerned. Is there anything, short of changing the water daily, that I can do that will not harm the plants? ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 11:46:53 -0500 Subject: Re: RAIN > Hi Becky: > > If you want to prevent mosquitos from getting into your > rainwater supply barrel...Take an eyedropper and add two > or three drops of motor oil or 3 and 1 oil to the surface > of the water. It will create a thin surface film of oil > that will prevent any mosquitos from hatching...as it > suffocates their eggs in the water. Simply skim it off > the top with a disposable rag when you want to use the > water. > > ---Steve While I am sure Steve knows what he is talking about, I would suggest using a tight fitting lid on your barrel or using a screen fit to size. I have used both successfully without risk to any aquatic Utrics or standing water plantings. Tom in Florida, home of equine encephalitis and tiger mosquito born dingue fever. ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:29 EST Subject: RE: mail > what the correct abbreviation for a given state is. Strangely, the post off > seems to be getting less, not more, efficient! Usually the codes are fairly Well, when you consider that the population is going up, the number of businesses is going up, and mail traffic is going up, I'm amazed that the US Postal Service can do as good a job as they do! Especially with all those hand-written addresses. They may seem a little slow with the cp shipments, but I think that's largely a product of anticipation! ;-) PS. I believe I've heard they plan to extend the zip code from the existing 9 digits to 11 digits. Michael ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 13:11:52 -0500 Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements Expect something from me in your E-mail tonight or tommorrow. ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:18:56 -0500 Subject: Greetings and Salutations Though I've been butting in the past couple of days, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is John Laroche, and I live in Miami, Florida. Prior to Hurricane Andrew, I had a rare plant nursery and many, many CP's. Today, I no longer have a nursery and have but only a single Nepenthes. I am in your group because I have 12 years of horticultural knowledge to share and am actively pursuing a rebuild of my once spectacular collection. Feel free to E-Mail me directly with any plant related questions, I'll be glad to help. For those of you who have inquired about my book, I will announce when it is available from the publishing house (it's being typeset now). Thank-you for asking. I'll be getting those plans out for the L-F Hood as soon as I find the file on my Hard Disk. John E. Laroche :) (Sabercat1@aol.com) Miami, Florida USA ################### From: "David J. Edmondson" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:18:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: mail On Thu, 19 Jan 1995, Michael.Chamberland wrote: > PS. I believe I've heard they plan to extend the zip code from the > existing 9 digits to 11 digits. Some bulk mailers already use the 11-digit zip codes. The last two digits are generally the same as the last two digits of your house number if you live in a single-family detached unit or a duplex. Dave Edmondson ghoti@netcom.com; ftp archive ftp.netcom.com:/pub/gh/ghoti "Exalted Master, you told us that the world would end yesterday." "My child, it did end yesterday, but you're too sinful to notice." ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:22:19 -0700 Subject: Death by Cruciferiction Hey all.... I've been busy and just skimming through the DIGEST files so if someone as directed a note to me in the last week I've missed it---please repost to me directly. Regarding ruminations on mycorrhizal associations... When on a hike with my botanist brother I happened to mention that _Capsella bursa-pastoris_ is sometimes thought to be carnivorous, he expressed surprise and then told me that as far as he knew, plants in the mustard family (Cruciferae or Brassicaceae) do not develop mycorrhizal associations that can help in nutrient uptake in poor soils, esp. those low in P. So a potential solution to this phylogenetic constraint would be to eat mosquitos! Of course, we're talking about carnivorous seeds vs. live plants, but the connection is interesting. Cheers, Barry ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 20:19:14 EST Subject: RE: mail I don't know about plans to expand the ZIP from nine to eleven digits. However, I think that most countries have the same types of problems you mentioned -- growing population & businesses, hand-written addresses, etc. I guess the thing that disturbs me is all of the stories about mail being misdirected and taking weeks to get across town -- and various experiences I've had pointing to inefficiencies -- in contrast to the P.O.'s reported plans to move into an electronic form of mail. It seems to me that they should concentrate on doing the present job well, before attempting new ventures! Bob K. ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 20:25:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: D. adelae surprises Hello everyone, This past summer, when Doug Atlas gave me a large portion of his CP collection to distribute, I kept a few plants. Among them were two nice-sized D. adelae specimens. I had never seen this Drosera before, and I found it to be quite beautiful. Both were transplanted side by side in one of my large plastic trays, which already contained three large D. capensis, a few D. spathulata, a young Cephalotus, and various Utriculariae growing as weeds on the surface of the growing medium. The growing medium is a peat-sand mixture, and this whole arrangement sits under fluorescent lights inside a clear plastic tent. Both D. adelae plants began to show signs of inadequate humidity and perhaps higher temperatures than they normally like. The older leaves gradually dried up, and the newer growth was small. Not being one who submits himself to the wills of his plants, I just let things sit and figured that the plants would kick the bucket eventually. By the way, the other plants in the tray were doing fine, and the D. capensis plants flowered. One week ago I spotted several unidentifiable Droserae sprouting up, and I thought this might be D. capensis plantlets that started from the seeds which resulted from the recent flowers. Now the plants are large enough to identify, and they're D. adelae! It's incredible. There are miniature D. adelae coming up all over the tray--one in the midst of the three D. capensis, one on the other side of the Cephalotus from where the adult D. adelae are, and a few more in various locations in the tray. Apparently the adult D. adelae grew roots throughout the tray, and these are sprouting new plants in random locations. The two adult plants still don't look as nice as they did when I first received them, but they must be happy if they're making babies. Meanwhile, I haven't seen one D. capensis plantlet yet, and this is the Drosera that's supposed to spread like a weed once it blooms. Ah yes, these surprises are best when they occur in the middle of Winter. I just hope that the plants are not so aggressive that they will kill my Cephalotus. Perry Malouf ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 21:21:29 -0500 Subject: Plantless Hello CP-liners, Once again I will introduce myself and my interests. My name is Ronnie Spears. I am a graduate student at Georgia Southern University doing research on bats! I am also a self proclaimed botonist. I ahve grown many different species of CP's over the past 15 years. My first was of course the venus flytrap. I live now in prime carnivor country. Southeast GA. (more debate material) Near Savannah, GA. My growing interests include Drosera, Nepenthes, and Cephalotus. Currently my CP count is zero! I have not grown any carnivors in over two years and I am feeling a little weak in the knees. This line has sprung my interests once again. I would like to setup a nice terrerium. What plants would make great additions. My favorite is Ceph. f. I would like to obtain some of the Australian tubers in the Drosera family( D. adelae) I hope i spelled it right. Are there any cultivators of any of these hard to find species. Most cultivars here in the southeast only have a few species. Most Cephalotus plants are smaller than a quarter and I seem to have a wonderful effect on them. I send them to plant heaven. The nicest Ceph. plants that I have had came from the Atlanta Bot. Garden. It lived for three years. Its demise happened when I left it outside thinking it could tolerate the mild GA. winters. WRONG!!! A lite frosting seemed to do this plant in. I remembered reading that this species could take cool weather. Anyway, if anyone out there has any seed or plants they would like to shell off. I am available. Thanks. Cheers, Ronnie Spears T T [ ] [ ] [ ][ ] \/ // ################### From: "David J. Edmondson" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:15:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: D. binata multifida extrema Does anyone know of a reliable source in the U.S. for this plant? Thanks much! Dave Edmondson ghoti@netcom.com; ftp archive ftp.netcom.com:/pub/gh/ghoti "Exalted Master, you told us that the world would end yesterday." "My child, it did end yesterday, but you're too sinful to notice." ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:18:11 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: RAIN According to Oliver T Massey CFS: > >> If you want to prevent mosquitos from getting into your >> rainwater supply barrel...Take an eyedropper and add two >> or three drops of motor oil or 3 and 1 oil to the surface >> of the water. It will create a thin surface film of oil >> that will prevent any mosquitos from hatching...as it >> suffocates their eggs in the water. Simply skim it off >> the top with a disposable rag when you want to use the >> water. >> > >While I am sure Steve knows what he is talking about, I would suggest using a >tight fitting lid on your barrel or using a screen fit to size. I have used >both successfully without risk to any aquatic Utrics or standing water >plantings. > I agree with Oliver, you have to be careful about contaminants if you try to knock off mosquito larvae this way. The "traditional" way here in Australia was a bit of kerosene in the rain water tank but that taints the water. If you have a duck then they seem to do a great job in scarfing up the larvae - we had some water standing in buckets that always used to get mosquito larvae in them. Now that we have a duck we don't seem to have any larvae in the water - or snails, weeds, lettuce, spinach, silverbeet, just about anything is eaten ;-) Brett, in South Australia _still_ hanging out for some decent rains to fill his rainwater tank which was bone dry until a week or so ago. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: Carnipla@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 22:56:58 -0500 Subject: Re: 1995 California CP Meetin... Rick, thanks for the update. You saved me a phone call. Tom ################### From: Aaron Hicks Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 21:18:26 -0700 Subject: Re: RAIN For getting rid of 'skeeter larvae in shallow trays or dishes of water, I would suggest going to your local pet store, and purchasing a handful or so of "feeder guppies"; rather hardier than the fancy kind, these little beasties will thrive in all but the harshest of conditions, and reproduce mercilessly. On the other hand, this requires absolute strictness in application of any kind of chemical agents; obviously, most insecticides (including insecticidal soaps and pyrethrins), will be fatal to them in even ppm concentrations... If one only had a few shallow trays, the guppies would probably do quite well; I have not attempted to raise them in acidic water (and, alas, as I am not in possession of any quantities of fish nor the facilities in which to raise them, with nary a pet store for 70 miles in any given direction, I am not in the position to attempt such an experiement). On the other hand, many fish do quite well in "peat-water", or water that has (quite sensibly) been strained through peat. Something to do with the tannins or humic acid or something like that. :-) -AJHicks NMTech Dept. of Entropy ################### From: tomas polivka Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 09:02:56 MET Subject: Re: Plantless Yes, you have spelled right - D. adelae - but it is NOT a tuberous Drosera. D. adelae is from the group of tropical droseras (D. schizandra, D. prolifera, D. petiolais, D. falconeri, D. dilatato-petiolaris...). Tomas ################### From: Pekka Ala-Siuru Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:09:17 +0200 (EET) Subject: NEP+LIGHT+HUMIDITY On Thu, 19 Jan 1995, Oliver T Massey CFS wrote: > > > > > > > > > My next victim will be a N.rafflesiana. I am simply waiting for > > > one of my plants to get get big enough for a cutting. > > > > > > I have been growing N.rafflesiana in a low humidity environment > > (house hold levels) and it doesn't like at all. It does produce > > pitchers but these are small and short lived. It has been growing > > quickly as far I can tell, > however. > > It's a heathly plant but the low humidity just knocks the pitchers > > off. > > > > Dave, how's the light conditions here? > > Dave Evans > > > > > > > I am impressed with the growers who manage all kinds of Nepenthes in > home environments. I can't imagine how you succeed in homes with > central heat and air. > > Even here in Florida where the humidity is often 100%, I have several > Nepenthes that simply do not like open air environments. They produce > new healthy leaves but simply don't pitcher. In fact, if I have a > plant that is not pitchering I invariably put it in a terrarium setup > under lights, which has always turned the plant around. Hey, look what you write! ... setup under lights... Is that the answer to pitchering? Proper light conditions before humidity. ..Pekka ______________________________________________________ Pekka Ala-Siuru Senior Analyst, Embedded Knowledge-Based Systems VTT Electronics, P.O.Box 1100, FIN-90571, Oulu,Finland Tel. +358 81 551 2461, Telefax +358 81 551 2320 ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 20:08:58 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: NEP+LIGHT+HUMIDITY According to Pekka Ala-Siuru: > >Hey, look what you write! ... setup under lights... >Is that the answer to pitchering? >Proper light conditions before humidity. > Not in my experience. I have had nepenthes that have received plenty of light and still not produced pitchers. Raising the humidity seems to promote pitchering. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:16:05 +200 Subject: Instant smoke Dear CP smokers, As the current topic seems to be germinating smoke-treated seeds, I have something to add. The Botanical Society of South Africa has recently put a product on the market called "Instant Smoke Plus" which consists of a sheet of absorbent paper which has been impregnated with a solution of smoke in water and then dried. All you have to do is pour a measured quantity of water over the smoke-impregnated paper to resuspend the smoke solution and water the seeds with it. Simplicity itself! Further details can be got directly from the Society by writing to: Botanical Society of South Africa Private Bag X7 Kirstenbosch Claremont 7735 South Africa. Best regards Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: sportman@students.wisc.edu (Scott Portman) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 07:41:19 -0600 Subject: re: RAIN A follow-up on the thread about keeping mosquitos out of rainwater barrels. "Whiteclouds", available at tropical fish stores, are little minnows from China that survive even when the surface of the water freezes over. They love mosquito larvae. I used to keep some in an outdoor pond and never had a problem with mosquitos. ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:43:24 -0500 Subject: Re: NEP+LIGHT+HUMIDITY > > Even here in Florida where the humidity is often 100%, I have several Nepenthes > > that simply do not like open air environments. They produce new healthy leaves > > but simply don't pitcher. In fact, if I have a plant that is not pitchering I > > invariably put it in a terrarium setup under lights, which has always turned > > the plant around. > > Hey, look what you write! ... setup under lights... > Is that the answer to pitchering? > Proper light conditions before humidity. > > ..Pekka You raise an interesting point. Obviously, growers will have different experiences, but I have found that for Sarracenia you are correct. Sarracenia's want as much light as possible. Humidity matters, but seems to come second. As for Nepenthes, humidity seems to come first. Light has not been as crucial an element for me. My Neps are all either under lights or outside in natural sunlight. When I move a Nep into a terrarium, it is being moved from "under lights", to "under lights in an enclosure". It is true that the biggest pitchers I have obtained for some species have come about outside, but other species seem to do very well in light levels that the Sarracenia definitely do not like. As an example, I recently had a N. alata that was not doing well. I repotted in live sphagnum, separating the several plants into two pots. One I put outside while the other went into one of my terrariums. The terrarium plant recovered and is pitchering very nicely with textbook diffuse red and green pitchers, while the plant outside continued to decline to the point where I thought I would loose the plant. About three weeks ago I put it in the terrarium and it has already dramatically improved. Now, the light levels outside are defintely higher than the terrarium, and the humidity outside, although high, is still lower than the terrarium. Anyway, that kind of experience has lead me to my conclusions. - - Either that or the little suckers are playing with my mind. Tom in Florida - Be glad your paranoid, otherwise all those people really would be out to get you. ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:48:13 -0500 Subject: re: RAIN > A follow-up on the thread about keeping mosquitos out of rainwater barrels. > "Whiteclouds", available at tropical fish stores, are little minnows from > China that survive even when the surface of the water freezes over. They > love mosquito larvae. I used to keep some in an outdoor pond and never had > a problem with mosquitos. HA! What an idea, and one more reason to never let those water trays completely dry out. - But do they fertilize the water? Tom in Florida, looking for whiteclouds ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 07:50:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP digest 229 My sympathies to all you who have to face the two-letter state abbreviations. I still am not sure myself if MI is Mississippi or Michigan, for example. I still have a hard time with British and Canadian postal zones, with their incomprehensible groupings of letters and numbers, never sure if I am seeing the letter O or the number 0. We are being forced into saying more, but typing less. Nepenthes question - at what point is a pitcher no longer contributing to the welfare of the plant - when the upper portion begins to dry out, or when the entire pitcher is withered? At what point does the pitcher cease providing nourishment to the plant? Should these pitchers be removed immediately, for the health of the plant, at that point? Thank you for your advice. Cheers, Phil ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:10:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Various Topics Hi Folks, For the new folks, welcome! For mosquito control, Gardener's Supply sells a floating ring that releases a mosquitocidal bacteria for mosquito control. My D. adelae did the same thing as Perry's last year. Right now they are sending up about 12 flower spikes. I plan on dividing the pots after I collect seed so I'll offer up extras then. Does anyone known if D. adelae needs assistance in pollination or will they self easily? Also, can they be crossed with D. prolifera? Remember your International Carnivorous Plant Society dues. With publications running on time let's not slow things down. Yes, I'm the world's worst procrastinator :-). Ronnie, I'll trade you some Drosera capensis for information on how to build and locate a bat house that will really attract bats. Take care! Jeff in Central North Carolina where its 8 degrees C, overcast, and raining. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:43:57 -0500 Subject: Re: RAIN Oh, Tom, While I have lids on them already, they are cheap garbage cans. I cannot trust the lids. I do have some plastic though from the pond/bog renovation that would seal it. Hmmm Thanks Becky ################### From: Rick Skalsky Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 08:42:43 PST Subject: Re: CP digest 229 RE: mosquito larvae in standing water In California they use a Mosquito fish (looks a lot like a non-fancy guppy) to take care of the larvae. I'll look for the scientific name, but it's commonly referred to as Mosquito fish and it's hardy. They use it in ponds and water fountains in the San Francisco Bay area which gets some decent frosts, but doesn't freeze ponds usually. You can also use feeder guppies or regular cheap goldfish. I'll email the scientific name if I find it. It sure beats using oil or kerosene. Garden centers also carry something I think is called Mosquito dunks or doughnuts which serve the same purpose but I don't know what they are made from. On another note, can someone list some decent understandable Tissue Culture books or magazine references? Thanks, Rick Skalsky ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:24:58 -0500 Subject: Re: RAIN No ducks-seems to be there should be a joke in there somewhere, I'll most likely think of it off line. But I do have gold fish. I was just afraid of their nitronous waste, but now that I think of it, it should keep the algae down too. I hope you don't get rains like we got rains. God tried to give us 2 years worth in one night. ################### From: "Walter Greenwood" Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:34:38 EST5EDT Subject: Re: D. adelae surprises Perry, et al, This may only be worth two cents, but ... I have always kept d. adelae in long-fibered or live sphagnum, and I remember reading recomendations to that effect somewhere many years ago. If I am behind the times on this one, please straighten me out, as half of my specimens are very happy, and half are not. As for the surprise, the fact that one is making babies does not neccesarily mean one is happy. Plants often flower in response to stress, for example, presumably as a last-ditch effort to secure the survival of their genes. Perhaps your trayful of little suckers is the plant's way of saying "HELP!". After only a week, are they really big enough to ID positively? ... probably only worth two cents. Perry. Thanks again for the narrative about your trip. Next time, take me with you! later, Gator ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:41:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Various Topics Jeff, I have that information also. About bats I mean. I have a book of Bat house recepies. If you have a bat house that is not attracting, change it's color(heat absorbancy) or direction. All of which is site specific. Latitudes and climate... Becky ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 12:46:26 EST Subject: Re: CP digest 229 Canadian postal codes are simple: They alternate letters and digits. The same is not true for British codes. Bob K. ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:12:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: D. adelae surprises One other thing I noticed when dividing up some D. adelae offshoots was the shallowness of the root system. It never went much below 2 inches down into the sphagnum, but was very extensive and made a thick band around the pot perimeter. When I repot this time I'll use a shallower container with more surface area for spreading room. Jeff in North Carolina ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:44:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Beginner Questions On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Ron Miller wrote: > Since I am planning on growing several species that like a lot of sun, it > seems that flourescent light will not be able to provide enough for the > plants. As a result, I am planning on buying some HID lights. I am currently > leaning towards buying a 175 Watt full-spectrum metal halide light. > > Is 175 Watts enough power for a very small setup? I realize that it is not > much more money to buy a slightly higher power setup, but I am concerned > about electricity usage (more for environmental reasons than actual cost), > and I don't want to buy a more powerful setup than I need. > Would I be better off buying a high pressure sodium setup? It seems that > sodium lighting is more efficient, although metal halide has a more natural > spectrum. As a result, I was leaning towards the metal halide setup (I also > don't like the orange glow of the sodium lights). > > Ron Hi Ron, I can answer all of your questions on lighting, so I will. I have a 45 gal. tall terrarium and have found that 2 36" long wide spectrum grow fluorescents suffice for orchids and CPs (I grow them together). As far as my CPs go, I have a Venus, trumpet pitcher and Cephalotus. If you want to go with a metal halide, 175 watt will be plenty. They burn quite hot (unlike fluorescents), so don't keep the tops of the plants too close to the bulb. MH lamps are higher in blue light which is great for blooming, but they are not as efficient as high pressure sodium and do not last as long. They also make an annoying hum, which is definitely something to think about if the terrarium is located in a central area. HPS lamps are pretty quiet.I hope I've answered your questions. Oh, and welcome to the group; I'm fairly new myself. :> Trish. ################### From: MZieg1234@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:57:50 -0500 Subject: Contamination of VFT and Hello! I would like to introduce myself and apologise for my hastily written first note. My name is Mike Ziegler. My main interest currently is cultivation of a variety of medicinal and gourmet fungi but last winter I propagated in vitro a number of plants including CP's like Dionaea just to see if I could. Before all of this I got my training in animal cell culture so I have roamed the Kingdoms a bit! To answer some of your questions I used leaf explants washed 3x with sterile distilled H20 containing 5% tween 20. Disinfection was Na hypochlorite store stock 5.25% diluted 1:10 with sterile distilled H20 plus tween 20 for 5 minutes with agitation. Tissue was placed in dilute MS media supplemented with zeatin per Minocha-HORTSCIENCE 20:216-217, 1985. I got massive die off bu t the biggest problem was with continued contamination in most cultures. I was able to get several cultures going and successfully grew and divided them as much as I wanted. As I said before I haven't had that problem with plant culture (or fungal culture for that matter). The idea did come to mind that these carnivorous strains have enzymes for breakdown of organic matter and I wondered if they supplemented an erratic diet with more consistent bacterial or fungal farming of sorts-thus the high bacterial, fungal count. The alternative is just that the tissues are more fragile than other plants. I have not had huge experience with plant culture so don't know if this is unusual or unique to CP's so forgive my possible ignorance! Thanks for the feedback. Mike Ziegler South Burlington VT. ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 14:33:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fish > In California they use a Mosquito fish (looks a lot like a non-fancy guppy) The genus is probably _Gambusia_ or maybe _Heterandria_ (both are called Mosquito fish in different areas of the US). They are in the same family (Poeciliidae) as the Guppy (_Poecilia reticulata_), the Platy, Swordtail, etc. The family is live-bearing and the majority of the fish are voracious eaters of Mosquito larvae. Because they bear live fry, and reproduce quickly, they are very useful at lowering Mosquito populations and have even been planted in pools in areas where they previously did not inhabit. BTW, the females can store sperm in their bodies for a long time and it's not uncommon for baby fish to appear from 'no where'. JMS ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 14:17:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Mosquito Problems (Part II) While we're on the subject of mosquitoes, I know that several varieties of Sarracenia sometimes have mosquito larvae in their pitchers. I had heard/read somewhere that these were a non-biting species of mosquito, but, much as I would like to, I'm reluctant to add them to my collection until I was sure. Anyone know anything about this? ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:22:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: bats > > Ronnie, I'll trade you some Drosera capensis for information on > how to build and locate a bat house that will really attract bats. The house isn't as important as how it smells...I saw something that said that they don't like "new" wood and that you should have the dung of other bats (not sure if this goes inside or on the ground under the house). You also need to be close to a source of water. ...then again, maybe it's all superstition... Dave ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 15:56:00 -0500 Subject: Re: RAIN (WhiteClouds) I concur, with is addendum... White Cloud Mountain Fish which have been raised in our Tampa fish farms (or Imported from the Hong Kong/Singapore farms) for hundreds of inbreed generations have lost much of their "natural genetics" including a degree of cold resistance. Don't be suprised if a good cold spell sends them belly up. As an alternative or supplement, I would suggest Gambusia affinis, the Mosquito Fish. Hardy, mean enough to defend itself against the various insect larvae which predate fish and a voracious eater of Mosquito larvae. There is also a variation of BT which is host specific against Mosquitos, someone used to market it in the US under the name Mosquito Control. Maybe Safer's. John Laroche (sabercat1@aol.com) ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 16:02 EST Subject: RE: bats > > > > Ronnie, I'll trade you some Drosera capensis for information on > > how to build and locate a bat house that will really attract bats. > > The house isn't as important as how it smells...I saw something > that said that they don't like "new" wood and that you should > have the dung of other bats (not sure if this goes inside or on > the ground under the house). You also need to be close to a > source of water. I thought that a bat house could be constructed much like your standard wood-duck house, but must be fashioned and painted to look like the Addams Family mansion! :-) Michael ################### From: NBS/Haleakala Field Station Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:16:15 -1000 Subject: States' abbreviations (U.S. = United States of America) Following is a list of states' abbreviations, for all non-U.S. folks (and also U.S. folks who don't know/can't remember them): AK,Alaska AL,Alabama AR,Arkansas AZ,Arizona CA,California CO,Colorado CT,Connecticut DC,District of Columbia DE,Delaware FL,Florida GA,Georgia HI,Hawaii IA,Iowa ID,Idaho IL,Illinois IN,Indiana KS,Kansas KY,Kentucky LA,Louisiana MA,Massachusetts MD,Maryland ME,Maine MI,Michigan MN,Minnesota MO,Missouri MS,Mississippi MT,Montana NC,North Carolina ND,North Dakota NE,Nebraska NH,New Hampshire NJ,New Jersey NM,New Mexico NV,Nevada NY,New York OH,Ohio OK,Oklahoma OR,Oregon PA,Pennsylvania PR,Puerto Rico RI,Rhode Island SC,South Carolina SD,South Dakota TN,Tennessee TX,Texas UT,Utah VA,Virginia VI,Virgin Islands VT,Vermont WA,Washington WI,Wisconsin WV,West Virginia WY,Wyoming AFN,* -pt *Aloha For Now! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Philip A. Thomas - National Biological Service - Haleakala N.P. Field Station [** Opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent **] [** the position of the National Biological Service or my employer! **] ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 15:46:05 CST Subject: RE: bats In Message Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:43:14 -0800, telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) writes: >> >> Ronnie, I'll trade you some Drosera capensis for information on >> how to build and locate a bat house that will really attract bats. > > The house isn't as important as how it smells...I saw something > that said that they don't like "new" wood and that you should > have the dung of other bats (not sure if this goes inside or on > the ground under the house). You also need to be close to a > source of water. > > ...then again, maybe it's all superstition... > > Dave If anyone knows of any good books on the subject of building houses for bats I'd like to know. Thanks, John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 16:34:46 CST Subject: RE: RAIN In Message Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:01:37 -0800, R5M@aol.com writes: I called last weekend, and they are doing fine. The roads are not in such good shape they said, but I'm planning on driving up on Sunday. >Has anyone in No. Cal. seen or heard from Peter d'Amato? John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 19:51:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Various Topics On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV wrote: > For mosquito control, Gardener's Supply sells a floating ring > that releases a mosquitocidal bacteria for mosquito control. a.k.a BT or Bacillus thuringiensis. It usually works within 24 hours! There are a number of different sub-species with var. israelensis and H-14 working best. Natrual Insect Control in Stevensville, Ontario, Canada sells them as Vectobac (H-14) and DUNKS (B.t.isr). I've used them in rainbarrels with success harold ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 19:56:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP digest 229 On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, robert korfhage wrote: > Canadian postal codes are simple: They alternate letters and digits. The > same is not true for British codes. easiest way to remember CDN codes is letter, number, letter number, letter, number Harold M4E 2S5 ################### From: John Taylor Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 12:14:45 +1100 Subject: Re: Fish (sorry to continue an off-topic topic...) >> In California they use a Mosquito fish (looks a lot like a non-fancy >> guppy) > > >The genus is probably _Gambusia_ or maybe _Heterandria_ (both are >called Mosquito fish in different areas of the US). They are in the >same family (Poeciliidae) as the Guppy (_Poecilia reticulata_), the >Platy, Swordtail, etc. The family is live-bearing and the majority of >the fish are voracious eaters of Mosquito larvae. Because they bear >live fry, and reproduce quickly, they are very useful at lowering >Mosquito populations and have even been planted in pools in areas where >they previously did not inhabit. BTW, the females can store sperm in >their bodies for a long time and it's not uncommon for baby fish to >appear from 'no where'. Here's food for thought about Mosquito Fish from "In The Spotlight - News From The Victorian Frog Group Vol.1 No.1" (which just arrived!) "Do not release Mosquito Fish (_Gambusia affinis_) into any water body! It is illegal to be in possession of this foreign pest species in some parts of Australia, and although it occurs in many areas in the wild, all efforts should be made to reduce and halt its spread. Although very small this fish will eat vast quantities of tadpoles and is capable of killing tadpoles several times its own size by simply ripping pieces off them! This species could easily decimate a backyard frog population." +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Michael Livingston Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 20:09:30 PST Subject: Re: Mosquito Problems (Part II) >While we're on the subject of mosquitoes, I know that several >varieties of Sarracenia sometimes have mosquito larvae in their >pitchers. I had heard/read somewhere that these were a non-biting >species of mosquito, but, much as I would like to, I'm reluctant to >add them to my collection until I was sure. >Anyone know anything about this? I just watched a PBS home video called 'Death Trap', a _Nature_ episode devoted to CPs, that had an excellent segment on your Sarracenia and mosquitos. It did not say whether or not the mosquitos enjoyed humans. I did get the impression that the plant and mosquitos have a symbiotic relationship, the mosquito larvae helping crack open captured insects and providing nice fertilizer, the plant providing excellent safety. Do the Sarracenia require the mosquito larvae in their pitchers to do well? Or did it just work out well for the mosquitos? M ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 23:19:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: D. adelae, stressed plants, etc. Walter Greenwood wrote concerning the planting medium for D. adelae: > I have always kept d. adelae in long-fibered or live sphagnum, and I > remember reading recomendations to that effect somewhere many years > ago. Similarly, Chris Waldrop wrote: > ... D. adelae, prolifera, and schizandra do best with higher > humidity and lower light levels in either pure or long fiber sphagnum. I never bothered to consult my references about the growing medium for D. adelae. Ooops. :) Walter Greenwood then adds: > As for the surprise, the fact that one is making babies does not > neccesarily mean one is happy. Plants often flower in response to > stress, for example, presumably as a last-ditch effort to secure the > survival of their genes. Perhaps your trayful of little suckers is > the plant's way of saying "HELP!". After only a week, are they really > big enough to ID positively? Yes, I think the ID of the young plants is unmistakable now. Regarding the "last-ditch" effort of stressed plants, I've heard of orchids putting out blooms under such circumstances. I've never heard of plants growing lots of roots and sprouting up little plantlets from the roots in response to stress. I truly believe that the sprouting of new D. adelae plants is a sign that my plants are happy enough to grow extensive root systems. Both Walter and Chris write: > (Walter) > Perry. Thanks again for the narrative about your trip. Next time, > take me with you! > (Chris) > P.S. I really enjoyed your write-up of your trip. I don't grow any > nepenthes (because of space rather than taste) but seeing them in the > wild must be an extraordinary experience. You are both immensely welcome! I'm happy you enjoyed the write up. Hey, I'd go again in a minute if I had the money, the job security, and the time. If anyone is contemplating a trip and needs an "experienced guide", I'd be happy to tag along for the small fee of airfare, accomodations, meals, etc. :) Perry ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 22:01:10 PST Subject: Re: Various Topics > > Jeff, > I have that information also. About bats I mean. I have a book of Bat house > recepies. If you have a bat house that is not attracting, change it's > color(heat absorbancy) or direction. All of which is site specific. > Latitudes and climate... > Becky > Hey, why would one WANT a bat house, anyway? Even more so, why would one want bats in it? -BJ ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 01:33:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Mosquito Problems (Part II) non-biting mosquito in sarracenia? Maybe, there are many non-biting spp.; but in our prime we had thousands of Sarracenia and the few that we saw Mosquitos in (mostly purpurea) contain the regular biting kind. I wouldn't deny yourself the pleasure of growing these fascinating plants on the worry of a few mosquitos. The risk of a serious infestation is far less than say with rosette forming Bromeliads. Saber (sabercat1@aol.com) ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 01:57:37 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 229 I suppose as long as it remains green. It should serve some purpose. It is certainly still viable if the lid has browned off. Just make sure there's liquid in there and keep it as long as you can. Saber ################### From: "David Johnson" Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 09:52:28 CST Subject: Introduction Hi, my name is David Johnson. I have a few Drosera capensis that were given to me by a fellow orchid grower about a year ago. One of them bloomed and now I have a couple of pots of babies. I am interested in growing and propagating CPs. I have a few questions: What is ICPS (International Carnivorous Plant Society - I suppose)? Could someone E-mail me some info on it? I am interested in propagating CPs from seed. I have read about sowing seed on composts in pots. Is it more efficient to grow them in sterile flasks? I already grow orchids from seed in sterile flasks. Does someone out there do this? thanks for your time... David Johnson PS: Bats are neat, I wish there were more around my house. ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 12:06:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Asceptic Germination CP Seed In response to Orchid grower Dave Johnsons question about the Asceptic Gernination of CP seeds: This method works for me for many Drosera, Venus Fly Trap (especially), some pitchers (not the best formula): Use mature seed, do not scarify. Sterilize: 1/10 bleach/Tween 20 for ten minutes under agitation; distilled water rinse. Germination media(one of several): one half strength MS Salts with full strength Minimal Organics amended with: 100mg/l Casien, 100mg/l Inositol, 30g/l sucrose, 7g/l agar. pH:5.9. Culture at 80 degrees, at least 300ftc for 16 hours daily. Multiplication and Rooting Medium: as above with 0.2mg/l NAA and 5.0mg/l 2iP. Polyphenol production can be combated with the addition of filtered Ascorbic acid and citric acid. CP's are great for orchid growers they both take forever and a day to grow. ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 13:16:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Fish (sorry to continue a... Dear John, One man's pest is another man's abatement. These fish are actually given away here. Since they will be living all alone and in the dark, perhaps I should look into those blind albino catfish. Think so? Thanks a bunch, Becky ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 13:18:44 -0500 Subject: Re: bats Mosquito abatement. ################### From: jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 19:09:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Gordon Cheers Book Hi all, Over the last couple of months a number of people have reported difficulty finding a copy of Gordon Cheers book - _A Guide to Carnivorous Plants of the World_. I just ran across a source for it today (and cheap at that). I got a sales listing from the Edward R. Hamilton company (a discontinued and remaindered bookseller) and they are advertising the Cheers book for a nifty $24.95 (sob - I paid $45 about 6 months ago). For those of you who are on the mailing list for ERH and have or will get the sales list, it is on page 6, column 1 about half way down; for those not on their list the company address is: Edward R. Hamilton Falls Village CT 06031-5000 The item number is 855189, price $24.95, shipping $3 per order. In the past I have ordered from them simply by sending them a letter giving them the item number, title and author and price and enclosing a check for the appropriate amount so I would suppose this would still work. If you are not on their mailing list, all you have to do is write and ask to be added. They have an interesting, constantly changing list of books in a variety of areas at a 20 to 60 per cent discount to the published price; their service is prompt (usually 10 - 14 days) and accurate (I've never had an error in an order) and they are very accommodating if you need to return a book for any reason. Over the last ten years I have bought 80 - 100 books from them (mostly indoor gardening, cooking, art and science) without any problems. This has gotten to be much longer than I had intended so I guess I'd better cut it off now. John Ford jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu ################### From: SteveB4706@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 20:14:05 -0500 Subject: CP's are now on Power Rangers. All you CPers, Now the Power Rangers most deal with a New EVIL SPACE ALIENS Known as the Snapping Chest Invenusable Fly Trap. He comes from an Island called Venus Island that is contolled by Lord Zed. If you most have one of these Aliens you can find them at K-Mart or Toys R US. They are in the Series II Action Feature Item # 2341 Enjoy, Steve ################### From: sportman@students.wisc.edu (Scott Portman) Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 23:09:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Gordon Cheers Book John Ford notes that many people have had difficulty locating Gordon Cheer's Carnivorous Plants of the World. I read about a source here on this list last Nov - so for those of you who are looking for this book, here it is again: Discount Garden Books PO Box 8354 Portland OR 97207-8354 The price was $17.95 + $5.00 shipping. I bought a copy - it's worth it for the fine photographs and cultivation info, but has numerous minor errors. In particular, some photos are mis-labeled or switched. In one case, the same photograph is used to illustrate two different species - Genlisea repens and Utric. quelchii - not even in the same genus! (I recall someone on the list edited a CP book, and was upset that the publisher disregarded all their corrections - if this was the book, no offense is intended!) A question: does one need to stratify pygmy drosera seed - D dichrosepala etc? I'm getting ready to plant my first batch. ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:24:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: D. adelae pollination Last Friday Jeff wrote: >they are sending up about 12 flower spikes. I plan on dividing the >pots after I collect seed so I'll offer up extras then. Can I have some seed if you're successfull? >Does anyone known if D. adelae needs assistance in pollination >or will they self easily? Also, can they be crossed with D. prolifera? Some years ago, I had D. adelae in terrarium, but lost it during a holiday. I had also a lot of seed, which I gave to the Dutch cp society seed bank. My experience was that you need to pollinate the flowers with a little brush. If you don't do this you will get only deaf (not filled) seed. I never had D.prolifera, but you can try to cross them, but use different brushes for different pollen, and if it's possible, remove the anthers of the female parent before they release their pollen. The most safe is to do this just before the flower opens, so you have to break open the bud with a very sharp pincet and remove the anthers carefully without damaging the ovary. I will be interested in some seed if you succeed! >Remember your International Carnivorous Plant Society dues. just posted mine. >Jeff >in Central North Carolina where its 8 degrees C, >overcast, and raining. Martin in The Netherlands where it's about the same weather ################### From: Rick Skalsky Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 06:45:07 PST Subject: Low light CP's Are there any CP with low light requirements? Or do they all require fairly bright light conditions? I have an idea for a planter with high humidity conditions but low regular indoor lighting and wondered if anyone knows of a CP variety that would do well under indoor store type lighting, pretty bright, but not sunlight or grow lights. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks, Rick P.S. Gambusia is the scientific name of the mosquito fish used in fountains and ponds in Northern California (CA). ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 07:31:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP digest 230 My first purchase of Nepanthes was five plants from Ca. Carnivores about a year ago. Two were hung above a waterfall in a corner that gets good afternoon sunlight. The other three were placed on a tablefull of Lycastes under a 1,000 watt halide. A few weeks ago I compared the plants and there was a dramatic difference. The two plants getting high humidity and sunlight were green, lush and healthy: the three plants under the light were a little yellowed on top: however they were double the height of the others, they had flowered, and they were full of pitchers. The other two had not one pitcher between them. I am placing all five under lights now. The ones that bloomed actually grew right into the light, just a few inches below the mount. Obviously they got too much light, but boy, they sure gave out the growth and the pitchers. The nepenthes in my terrarium are also growing well and producing lots of pitchers. They are under flourescents. I am now a firm believer in strong, artificial light for these guys. Cheers, Phil ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 12:00:16 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 230 Phil, Tall is not necessarily good. Don't you remember your Botany 101. The condition is called "leggy". It's from not enough light and not too much. The yellowing may be not from too much light,but from the heat of the lamps. Leave your other two under the waterfall, they are taking their own time. Please, growing a plant fast only burns it out young. Flowering can mean that the plant feels it's in danger. Becky ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 13:34:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Mutagens (Colchicine) Becky: In response to your request. Colchicine is NOT something to play "Mad Scientist" with. A bit of backround: -Colchicine (hereafter:C) is derived from several Colchicum spp, several Merendera spp and Gloriosa suberba. -It is highly toxic and carcinogenic. -It is in the class of Antimitotic agents, it mutates cells through a process called endomitosis. This simply means that it halts cell division. -Why does that cause mutation? Suppose when it halts cell division, the cell is in the process of dividing (mitosis).The cell would have any percentage between 0% and 100% extra chromosomes. Extra chromosomes=Polyploidy=mutation. -This is not as simple as it sounds, you can have partial polypoids, mutipolyploids (polyploids with are "redoubled") etc. And remember, this takes place on the cellular level, the whole plant isn't affected, just individual cells. -With this understood, it is obvious that we need to treat material with the fewest cells possible, so that if one favorabily mutates, it can develop into something useful. Something like a seed or even better; callus or cell suspension cultures. To make this clearer. Suppose you were to spray a seedling with C. At best only a small percentage of the billions of cells would mutate. An even smaller percentage would mutate into something useful or noticiable. The chances of any mutated celld falling in a place that would effect the resulting growth of the plant (the apical or lateral buds) is nil. Sure you might get a mutation for variegation, but if it happens to occur in the middle of a leaf, you will only see a small variegated spot in an other wise normal plant. Therefore, is is not a magic bullet and it won't work miracles. Most times, mutations obtained will only be useful in sexual breeding. If you are not put off by that, here are some suggestions for treatment times and dosages: The optimum time of treatment: The amount of time it takes the cell to complete division (so you do not "remutate"). Practically: between 3 and 24 hours. Dosages: varies with genus and species and is modified with duration of exposure: Start with solution concentrations of .01% C and work up to .5% C. Material to experiment with: I use TC material because I have access to it. I have suggested to people to use seeds. The entire seed if it is small and has little to no seed coat (ie Coleus or Orchids) or a pregerminated seed if it is large (ie a Legume). Finally, ever wonder how to tell if you actually have a polyploid? Either one you've created or one you suspect? The easiest way to tell is with the Pollen Measuring Technique. Simply collect pollen from several plants known or suspected of being "normal" and the pollen of the suspected polyploid. Use a hig powered Microscope and a Stage Micrometer and simply compare the pollen grains. The polyploid should have larger pollen (scientist's: don't flame me. I know there are drwbacks to this method, but it's fine for the hobbyist). Hope this has answered some of your questions. Good Luck. Another Pearl of Wisdom from: Saber (Sabercat1@aol.com) John Laroche ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:12:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: RAIN Hi, Becky, Glad you didn't get flooded out. About the mosquitoes--put just enough vegetable oil (some cheap generic brand) over the surface to evenly cover it. The veggie oil won't affect most plants. Veggie shortening is a great way to stop ants from getting into hummingbird feeders and those annoying squeeks from exercise wheels when kids bring home members of the Rodentia. Using those you know that nothing is going to get accidently poisoned, plants, pets or wildlife. Keep dry, Chelsie ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:30:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: mail If you think the postal service we have is bad, try sending a package to someone in the military. Once the package enters the military postal service it goes to the same place as socks, keys, pens, and Jimmy Hoffa. My postmaster showed me the statistics--a full 25% of all packages addressed to military personnel never makes it. I have to send every thing to my son by certified mail and insured. Very expensive and time-consuming. Chelsie ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:58:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Fish (sorry to continue an off-topic topic...) Has anyone tried Gambusia against Bufo marinarus, the cane toad, or that wonderful new import to Florida--the Cuban tree frog? :-) Chelsie ################### From: Pekka Ala-Siuru Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:52:51 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: CP digest 229 On Fri, 20 Jan 1995 SaberCat1@aol.com wrote: > I suppose as long as it remains green. It should serve some purpose. It is > certainly still viable if the lid has browned off. Just make sure there's > liquid in there and keep it as long as you can. > > Saber Hey, please people keep the references in your mails with!! What's the it here? ..Pekka ______________________________________________________ Pekka Ala-Siuru Senior Analyst, Embedded Knowledge-Based Systems VTT Electronics, P.O.Box 1100, FIN-90571, Oulu,Finland Tel. +358 81 551 2461, Telefax +358 81 551 2320 ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:17:22 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: RAIN > > Hi, Becky, > Glad you didn't get flooded out. About the mosquitoes--put just enough > vegetable oil (some cheap generic brand) over the surface to evenly cover > it. The veggie oil won't affect most plants. Why not to add some aquatic Utrics (or Aldrovanda) to get rid of Mosquito larvae ? ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:22:00 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Low light CP's > > > Are there any CP with low light requirements? Or do they all require fairly > bright light conditions? I have an idea for a planter with high humidity > conditions but low regular indoor lighting and wondered if anyone knows of > a CP variety that would do well under indoor store type lighting, pretty > bright, but not sunlight or grow lights. Any ideas are appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Rick > Low light CP suggestions: U.calycifida U.livida U.pubescens U.prealonga D.adelae D.prolifera G.hispidula P.caudata P.agnata Moderate light: N.ventricosa D.muscipula U.sandersonii U.monanthos P.emarginata Any comments ? ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 21:34:37 +0000 Subject: Re: Introduction David Johnson writes: > I am interested in propagating CPs from seed. I have read about sowing seed > on composts in pots. Is it more efficient to grow them in sterile > flasks? I already grow orchids from seed in sterile flasks. Does > someone out there do this? There are quite a few people around here who will no doubt tell you about this, but it is not for everyone (not yet for me, anyway). CP are no problem sown normally, as long as you pay regard to their likes of moisture, non-alkaline conditions, and (for most) little or no nutrients. And while writing - I didn't realise that British Post Codes were a problem to people :-) We don't think of them as a guide to where a place is over here, just as something to help the Post Office get things there quicker, and anyway, the whole country would probably fit in one of your zones in the US or Canada. Clarke (CB4 2AS - the 'CB' bit is for Cambridge) -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 21:40:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Cephalotus f. Ronnie Spears writes: > I would > also be interested in finding a medium to large cephalotus plant or seeds. > Can anyone help? Any way I was really excited to find this server. Don't know about plants - I was lucky enough to be given two tiny ones some years ago, and they are now quite a bit larger. I think of them as "poor man's Nepenthes", as they seem quite tough, whereas I haven't yet made much progress with the real Nepenthes. Rowland's (UK, address probably on the archive, ask me if not) have seed of Cephalotus. I had two packets in 1994, maybe 10-20 seeds, which have resulted in 1 seedling. I don't know if this is the expected ratio, or the seed was poor, or my conditions were wrong, but I'm happy to have got 1 (infinitely better than zero!). -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:18:06 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > > Expect something from me in your E-mail tonight or tommorrow. > Hi, I wonder if I have accidentally deleted something in my mail queue. Did you send something ? ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 08:21 EST Subject: Re: Mail Anyone know if mail flies faster when the address is typed rather than hand written? I imagine the typed label is easyer to scan, but don't know if this makes a significant difference. Michael ################### From: JR Parish Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 08:33:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mail Not to start a flame or anything but I found the conversation on tissue culture to be very interesting. So as not to tie up bandwidth could anyone e-mail me further information on the subject (i.e., procedures, etc.) Thank you Joe ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:53:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Plantless Hello Tomas, I realized my mistake only after I had sent mail. Thanks for reminding me though. Making these kind of mistakes can sometime get you in trouble. Thanks Ronnie ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 11:13:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Fish (sorry to continue a... It's not off subject, it's how to keep your rainwater sans mosquitoes. As for the Cuban tree frog, I knew someone who dated him... Becky ################### From: korfhage@icarus.lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 15:17:38 EST Subject: Re: Mail Ah, faster mail with typed addresses! I don't really know, but if you want a laugh, look at the P.O.'s latest suggestions. I don't have them handy, but as I recall they not only want typed addresses, but specifically ALL UPPER CASE LETTERS. That says something about the state of their scanning systems. In theory, the scanning systems are quite good, and they should speed up the process. However, when I think of the variety of mail that goes through them -- envelopes of different sizes and thicknesses, the occasional blip due to staples or paper clips, etc., and I think back to the card jams that we used to have with mechanical punched card sorters, I'm a bit surprised that we don't see more mangled mail out of these machines. (Yes, improvements have been made, but...) Overall, there are so many other factors in the system -- sorting out the pieces that can't be automatically processed, assuring that everything is right side up and facing forward, and the old on-foot delivery, to mention a few, that I'm not sure that any speedup would be visible. Plus there are still some flies in the ointment. For one thing, whereas very local mail used to be processed locally, now (at least here) it is collected along with everything else, sent to the central P.O., processed there, and then sent back out to our local P.O. Oh, yeh...back to the P.O. suggestions. They would like one to use the nine-digit ZIP, and bar coding. As for consistency: Our local P.O. wants us to separate bar coded mail from the rest, but doesn't care about metered mail vs. stamped. The central P.O. here wants metered separated from stamped, but doesn't care about bar coded. And their set-up for mail slots is interesting: metered letters stamped letters stamped parcels metered parcels And these guys want to get into e-mail! Bob Korfhage korfhage @lis.pitt.edu ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 15:41:20 -0500 Subject: Re: bats Hi Dave, Sounds like a good deal. First of all, water is important. In addition, if you are in a hot climate (e.g. California, Southeast U.S.) you need to place your box facing south X southeast. This is for heating and cooling. Also, you need to have the box on an un-obstructed pole. Utility poles work well. These boxes need to be place at least 12 to 15 feet from the ground. Guano does help with the occupation of bat boxes. Many studies are currently underway to determine what the best means of attraction are. Bat boxes do work. You may never see bats leaving or entering a box becuase usually the boxes only give the bats temporary shelter which is important. They use houses sometime for the resting period in between foraging bouts with insects. I will email you an address to Bat Conservation international. They have great boxes and plans for them. Although there are other cheaper boxes commercially available. However BCI's boxes have been tested with moderate success. The others haven't. Old wood works great but if you can't age it, don't worry about it. Let me know what you decide. I will email you the address or mail or fax. Let me know. Thanks Ronnie ################### From: K2P@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 15:48:48 -0500 Subject: Colchicine I recently received a query from a friend in North Carolina, asking me to find the name of a company that can do colchicine treatments for seeds. As this is a little out of my line, can anyone give me the name, phone number,and address. Any or all of the above would be appreciated. Thank you. K2P@aol.com Fred Pyne ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 15:53:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Introduction David, Where do you live? Chances are taht bats are everywhere around your house.. you may have just not seen them.. Some fly really late at night , while other fly at dusk. Ronnie ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:39:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: ICPS/CPN I want to join the ICPS and subscribe to the CPN. To whom, and at what address, do I correspond. Thanks. Pat. ################### From: wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl (Wim Osterholt) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 23:33:15 +0100 (MET) Subject: q: bats Ronnie, do you , or anyone else, know about bats that you could hear scream? In Switzerland I saw and heard bats of which you could actually hear their echolocation pulses. It was once in summer. Late in the evening, after 23.00h . Flying a fixed route between some houses you could hear pulses that sounded like 'glass' , once a second, raising to 3 to 4 times a second when reaching an obstacle (house). Single flying, or a buch of them. Didn't matter. I'm thinking they use a technique like what we call 'frequency shift radar' with a frequency dip low enough to get into our hearing range. I never got any confirmation of the existence of a species that did this. Regards, Wim. ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- (wim@morgana.gds.nl) ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 15:17:57 CST Subject: Re: bats In Message Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:46:31 -0800, gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu writes: >Hi Dave, > > Sounds like a good deal. First of all, water is important. In >addition, if you are in a hot climate (e.g. California, Southeast U.S.) you >need to place your box facing south X southeast. This is for heating and >cooling. Also, you need to have the box on an un-obstructed pole. Utility >poles work well. These boxes need to be place at least 12 to 15 feet from >the ground. Guano does help with the occupation of bat boxes. Many >studies are currently underway to determine what the best means of >attraction are. Bat boxes do work. You may never see bats leaving or >entering a box becuase usually the boxes only give the bats temporary >shelter which is important. They use houses sometime for the resting >period in between foraging bouts with insects. I will email you an address >to Bat Conservation international. They have great boxes and plans for >them. Although there are other cheaper boxes commercially available. >However BCI's boxes have been tested with moderate success. The others >haven't. Old wood works great but if you can't age it, don't worry about >it. Let me know what you decide. I will email you the address or mail or >fax. Let me know. > >Thanks >Ronnie Bat Conservation International (BCI) PO Box 162603 Austin, TX 78716-2603 PH: (512) 327-9721 FAX: (512) 327-9724 Their publication is called "Bats" and comes out quarterly. Their book on bat houses is called "The Bat House Builder Handbook." John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:20:49 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: MAYDAY-Nepenthes in distress Dear Alex, a friend had the same problem as you. Nepenthes suffer or if it's hard, they die from the acid gases of silicone. So you have to dry your vitrine thoroughly for some days before putting Nepenthes back to the vitrine. I am sorry, maybe it is the 101th answer, which you have got; I haven't read my mail for some time. Bye Joe N. ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 18:37:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Unwanted Threads Gentle Readers, I am here to make a humble request. Please, please, limit your conversations soley to CP. This is a CP newletter, though the conversations that have being held these last few weeks would not lead you to believe so. I am an avid collector and grower of CP, and simply don't care to read about much else from this newsgroup. My mailbox has been stuffed with all sorts of material not related at all to CP. There is absolutely nothing stopping you talking to a person individually about a spin off topic without sending to the group. With that said, I have a question for the chemists in the audience. Has anyone read or heard about a paper that has closely analyzed the chemical makeup of the water in pitcher plants (i.e. Sarracenia, Nepenthes)? I have heard all sorts of wild stories about the effect of this water on insects and humans alike. Chris ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:51:06 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Weeds. Hello Andreas, it is right, I also have got the experience, that sterilizing the media is no good idea. For the first, the medium will break down and you get something like charcoal and the second thing is, usually you do not kill all your weeds, so e.g. the surviving fungi have ideal conditions to sprout about all the medium. Bye Joe N. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:57:38 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: nepenthes seed medium Dear Christoph, just sow it on fine peat and keep it very humid. You can also put some fine quartz-sand to the peat (1/5); I am triing cocos as substrate now; until now with good success with young Nepenthes. Bye the way, for my personal interest: from which specie are the seeds from? Bye Joe N. On Thu, 12 Jan 1995 eheick@acs.bu.edu wrote: > I just recently received some Nepenthes seed. Can someone tell me what the > best medium is on which to sow it? Any suggestions would be appreciated. > Christoph > ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 01:04:05 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Weeds My comment: with coconut-substitute I have great success until now. Just an example: I have repotted some Nepenthes in my convential medium (peat, styromull, bark...) and they suffered for some time. I have repotted them for a second time to the coconut substitute (the fine variant) and they recovered great; the same with seedlings of Heliamphora, Drosera ... . It is physically very stable, light, with a good pH, until now no weeds and it looks fine. I hope, it will get the future substitute for peat. ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 20:19:38 -0500 Subject: Insectivores of the Bat kind Hi all CP folks, I hesitate to write this but in light of all the request I must reply. I am sorry for causing people to stray from the always welcomed CP discussions to a strange unexpected topic of interest. I am glad to know people are reading my letters. Anyway, Bat boxes are available from many different retail outlets. However, these bat boxes are unproven. That is, there is no valid research that can say they actually work or don't. BCI (Bat Conservation International) is one organization that is currently offering the only boxes that I know of that are used in current research. They have been studying the occupation rates for over two years. Their boxes seem to work in some areas of the U.S. Mainly in the Mid-west and Northeast. BCI has books, VHS, boxes, box kits, you name it. I am not promoting joining BCI, only if you want. It is a valid conservation society though. Bats are in trouble. All CP enthusiasts ought to appreciate that. We should understand the problems with eradication, and uncontrolled collecting. Bats just like CP's are insectivorous. They eat their weight in insects per night. We southern folks really appreciate this fact. If you ever visit this area of the southeast you WILL understand. So, bats are important biologically, and economically. Boxes should be placed where they recieve morning sunlight. Placement near water is also to ones advantage. Place boxes at least 12 to 15 feet from ground on a pole with no obstructions(e.g. utility poles). Try putting roofing paper on the tops of boxes and maybe drill several holes at the tops for venting heat. These are some of the things that seem to be important in attracting bats. Good Luck. I have placed the BCI address at the bottom of this message. Now, a question. Just what is the best way of growing N. gracilis? Any ideas on medium, humidity, etc...? Are there anystates that have very strict laws regarding the destruction of, and the collection of CP (besides Dionea in N.C.)? BCI address: Bat Conservation International P.O. Box 162603 Austin, TX 78716-2603 (512) 327-9721 My address: Ronnie Spears 465 S. College St. Statesboro, GA 30458 (912) 764-9412 email: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 22:10:50 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 229 >Hey, please people keep the references in your mails with!! What's the it here Sorry...I get such a large volume of mail that sometimes I'm answering when I should be sleeping (or sleeping while answering). The topic of the reply in question was; When should Nepenthes traps be removed? Again my apologies. ****Warning**** The writer tales no responsibility for what his fingers type, only what the mind thinks. (Sabercat1@aol.com) ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 22:26:42 -0500 Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > I wonder if I have accidentally deleted something in my mail queue. Did you send something ? I sent you an encoded file with a list of supplies needed. I hope you didn't delete or that it didn't go to someone else. I'd have to rekey and encode again. I deleted it. Let me know Saber (Sabercat1@aol.com) John Laroche ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:51:49 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: tissue culture requirements > > > I wonder if I have accidentally deleted something in my mail > queue. Did you send something ? > > I sent you an encoded file with a list of supplies needed. I hope you didn't > delete or that it didn't go to someone else. I'd have to rekey and encode > again. I deleted it. > Let me know Sorry for that but it I do not have it (perhaps I did not even get it). Please, try to send it again. No hurry, though. Sorry for the inconvenience, Michael > > Saber > (Sabercat1@aol.com) John Laroche > > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:29:54 +200 Subject: Mosquitos (again!) & Drosera capensis Dear All, Please excuse me for "flogging a dead horse" but I thought it appropriate to add my own solution to mosquito larvae in water trays to this discussion. Drosera capensis is one of my favourite plants so it enjoys a position of prominence in my collection, i.e. it is allowed to seed itself at will in any container that is available - occupied or not. One huge advantage to this is the number of mosquito carcasses that can be seen adhering to ever last tentacle! I don't think I have to add that adult mosquitos are not a problem in my collection although the larvae proliferate in the water. Unfortunately D. capensis has a dormant period during the winter months when no effective trapping takes place, but this is not a problem as mosquitos are only prevalent during the rainy season which is in summer for us. In my opinion this is an elegant solution to quite a serious problem that does not involve any other life form that may be problematical. Best regards Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: R Britt Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 00:30:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: RAIN Add a few mosquito fish instead! On Thu, 19 Jan 1995, Steven Klitzing wrote: > Hi Becky: > > If you want to prevent mosquitos from getting into your > rainwater supply barrel...Take an eyedropper and add two > or three drops of motor oil or 3 and 1 oil to the surface > of the water. It will create a thin surface film of oil > that will prevent any mosquitos from hatching...as it > suffocates their eggs in the water. Simply skim it off > the top with a disposable rag when you want to use the > water. > > ---Steve ################### From: ksnive@pstbbs.com Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 01:02:06 -0800 Subject: Seed bank David thankyou for your questions. It took all evening here is what I've come up with. A short history of the I.C.P.S. seed bank >Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:11:01 -0500 (EST) >From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) >Subject: ICPS seed bank >To: uunet!pstbbs.com!ksnive@uunet.uu.net ?I didn't know this address was part of the uu.net how did you come up with it and how have you been doing since we lost contact with each other the last time? > As newly elected officers, I have a few questions for you... > Is the "Keeper" of the seed bank a perpetual position, appointed, > volunteer, other? I believe it is appointed but usually a volunteer gets the appointment. It wouldn't do to appoint someone who doesn't want to do it. To my knowledge Tom is the fourth seed bank coordinator. The first was Bob Ziemer. The seed bank was suggested in Vol. 1 No. 1 as being one of the things the founding fathers were interested in having, but a volunteer did not step forward until Vol. 2 No. 2. the original prospectus was to be a seed AND plant exchange service with voluntary donations to cover expenses. Seed was sent to Bob but the information for plant exchanges was maintained in a database. Early reports were sporadic. In Vol. 3 No. 2 eight volunteers in as many countries were helping to coordinate the plant exchange to try to localize things and avoid the need to deal with plant quarantine. > What happens to the money generated by the seed bank? Is there a > published policy dictating how the seed bank is to operate? In Vol. 3 No. 1 to encourage people to participate in the plant database Bob offered a free _Darlingtonia_ and _P. vulgaris_ and a request of $ 0.50 was asked to help defray the expense of postage and handling. In Vol. 3 No. 4 word of problems and abuses involving the exchange service appeared and the first set of official guidelines was published, about 1 page. In that issue it was still listed as a free service but the request for assistance with postage that relates to the _Darlingtonia_ & _P. vulgaris_ was misquoted as a general request for help with postage. By the way the original system was to send SASE in the USA and money for sufficient postage for overseas orders. The next reference I was able to find was in Vol. 5 No. 1 where the editors reminded current members and informed new members about the seed exchange and grower/plant database. The contribution asked was $ 0.50 to $ 1.00 and participants received 2 printouts/year. References to the increasing stress involved in this job and a call for participants to be polite, patient and fair were again mentioned. In Vol. 6 No. 1 it was decided to reform the seed bank in a more formal manner calling for unspecified fees for seed and credit for donors. Also a request was issued for a volunteer to replace Bob Ziemer. Vol. 6 No. 2 announces the appointment Patrick Dwyer as the new seed bank administrator. Bob served us for 5 years. > I have a suggestion to increase the number of species available... > I think that "deposits" to the seed bank should generate credits > that can be used towards "withdrawals". It certainly wouldn't work > 1 for 1...maybe 10 deposits would be good for a free packet? It > seems to me that more people would donate seed if there was an > incentive. With the reformed seed bank came a fixed price $ 0.50 and a policy to give a free pack of seed for every 10 packs donated. Deja vu? To my knowledge this policy is still in affect. A packet was defined as enough seed to sow a circle of 5cm diameter. with fine seed, or at least 25 seeds for those species with larger seed. At this time the seed list was to be included as part and updated with each C.P.N. In Vol. 6 No. 2 clarification was made and the number of packets required was stated to be 10 -> 19 for a free pack with an additional pack for each 10 there after, free packs were to be of approximately equal rarity. All members were expected to wait for the publication of the C.P.N. for updates to the seed list and were asked to try when possible to submit their seed one month before the publication of the C.P.N. in order to facilitate the publication of the list. Vol. 7 No. 1 saw Patricks first financial report. Income $ 266.70 after expenses $ 215.67 which was donated toward the publication of C.P.N. Also a list of seed donors was published with the approximate numbers of packets that were donated. By Vol. 10 No. 1 the financial disclosure of society income due to the seed bank had disappeared from the C.P.N. In Vol. 18 No. 1 Gordon Snelling began assisting Patrick with monthly updates to the seed list for a S.A.S.E. because the in rush of seed and then seed orders around the time of the publication of the C.P.N. had become a burden. Patricks resignation was announced in Vol. 19 No. 1 & 2 after serving the I.C.P.S. for 19.5 years and Gordon Snelling took over his duties. At this time the price per pack was raised to $ 1.00 each, a very good price compared to the local garden stores price for a pack of posies. Gordon served us until just last year when Tom took over. > Tom has mentioned to me that he doesn't have the > facilities to test the seed he receives and that there are no > refunds or replacements for seed that doesn't germinate. To me > there's something not quite right about that. No guarantees have ever been given to my knowledge except that the trusted servant in charge of this job will do the best he can. I would like to be able to offer finincial information to you that is current but at this time I still have not recieved any my self. Thanks! Kevin Snively ksnive@pstbbs.com Secretary/Treasurer I.C.P.S. ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:40:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Seed bank Quality Hi Folks, Just to offer my 2 cents about the seedbank. Once upon a time you ordered seeds and they arrived in 2-16 weeks. This was not during the tenure of anyone on this list and due primarily to the director being too busy with other obligations. During the course of rebuilding my collection I began to use the seedbank about the same time Tom Johnson took over. In my opinion Tom has done a great job and given the attention he has paid to the seedbank I'm afraid it could become a burden in the near future. The seed quality has been good and the quantities equal to or greater than any commercial source. Many commercial sources do not guarentee seed germination if you read their fine print. The seedbank is not a commercial seed source, but is a benifit of ICPS membership. If you order seeds think of it as a donation to the ICPS and not a purchase from the seedbank. Anyone know of another place you can get Nepenthes seeds for US$1? Applause for Tom! Jeff in North Carolina ################### From: /G=Loyd/S=Wix/OU=1890CHPI/O=TMGB.URC/@LANGATE.gb.sprint.com Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:16:00 -0500 Subject: Pollination From Loyd.Wix@URCGB.SPRINT.COM Has anyone out there had any experience of the local insect population pollinating CP's, in particularly Pinguiculas? Last year something pollinated a load of my P.x Sethos plants and it certainly wasn't me! The only insect that I've witnessed working on CP flowers was a small solitary bee (i.e. one that lives on it's own rather than in hives with many others) that was busy working on Utric.livida flowers. I have 7 honey bee hives at the bottom of my garden and they take no interest in the CP at all. I would be interested to hear if any one has any information on the pollinators of the Mexican Pings, or any ideas or opinions. Regards. Loyd. ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 08:01:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Seed bank Quality > seedbank about the same time Tom Johnson took over. In my opinion > Tom has done a great job and given the attention he has paid to the > seedbank I'm afraid it could become a burden in the near future. The > seed quality has been good and the quantities equal to or greater than I'd have to say the quality of seeds depends purely upon the donors, and blaming the seedbank operator or saying that quality should be guaranteed is not only useless, it's unfair. While we're on the subject, I was thinking of ordering some seed from the bank. Is there any way I can get an update on its status through this list? And finally...my mystery pings which are developing flowers are acting rather strangely. One of them has put up a scape which is leaning over heavily (much like the photo of P. lutea in Lecoufle's book) and only seems to be opening partially to reveal withered petals. The other one has not fully put up a scape--a new leaf seems to be holding it down. Is this something that happens from time to time, or have I done something wrong? ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 09:16:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Pollination > From Loyd.Wix@URCGB.SPRINT.COM > > Has anyone out there had any experience of the local insect > population pollinating CP's, in particularly Pinguiculas? > Last year something pollinated a load of my P.x Sethos > plants and it certainly wasn't me! The only insect that I've > witnessed working on CP flowers was a small solitary bee > (i.e. one that lives on it's own rather than in hives with > many others) that was busy working on Utric.livida flowers. > I have 7 honey bee hives at the bottom of my garden and they > take no interest in the CP at all. I would be interested to > hear if any one has any information on the pollinators of > the Mexican Pings, or any ideas or opinions. Good question. The only time my Pings have been pollinated, I had to do it. I have seen large bumble bees around Sarr. flowers, and all kinds of flys around Drosera, but nothing around Pings. Tom in Florida, looking for flying tootpicks ################### From: Robert St-Jean Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:25:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Seed bank Quality -Reply I was thinking of ordering some seed from the bank. Is there any way I can get an update on its status through this list? I would be interested in viewing an update of the list also, plus information on how to order from the bank would be great, as I am new to the discussion group. Thanks, Robert ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:55:29 +0500 Subject: Looking for... Hi everyone... I was wondering if anyone out there has D. rechingeri. I really like this pygmy and would like any information on how I might be able to get it. Replys can be made to my private email address so as not to take up room in others mailboxes. My address is as follows: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu Thanks-- Krissy Mott ################### From: Adam Wexler Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:19:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re:Low Light CPs On a recent research trip to Perth, I found that D. erythrorhiza grows best in deep shade under Actinostrobus and Conocephalum shrub. -ADW ################### From: sportman@students.wisc.edu (Scott Portman) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 12:58:44 -0600 Subject: Seedpod I have a ripe seedpod of a very nice clone of Paphiopedilum folweii (a Philippine slipper orchid) looking for a home. Do any of you flasking/tissue culture afficionados want to experiment with an orchid? Please e-mail me at my e-mail address: sportman@students.wisc.edu Please, no respones through the CP list. ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:00:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Seed bank Quality -Reply On Tue, 24 Jan 1995, Robert St-Jean wrote: > I was thinking of ordering some seed from > the bank. Is there any way I can get an > update on its status through this list? > The list of seeds available is printed in the _Carnivorous Plant Newsletter_, usually on the third page of each issue. The December 1994 issue came out recently. However, if you want a more up-to-date list, send a SASE to Tom Johnson, PO Box 12281, Glendale, CA 91224-0981. ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 14:49:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Pollination > Has anyone out there had any experience of the local insect > population pollinating CP's, in particularly Pinguiculas? Well, an entomologist friend of mine (John Mugg - Director of the MSU Botany Teaching Greenhouses - and member of the server). Once told me that _Pinguiculas_ were pollinated by moths or butterflies (maybe Hummingbirds). If I remember the flower structure correctly a long tube-like structure protrudes out the back of the flower. He stated that the insects insert their probiscus(sp), a long furled mouth-piece, into the length of the previously mentioned tube to drink nectar. Thereby retrieving pollen to pollinate another plant and/or for self-pollination. I apologize for my lack of scientific names and for any possible mistakes. That was all from a conversation over 3 years ago. JMS ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 16:10:21 -0700 Subject: chrysolepis, orbs, and tubers Hey all.... I noticed last night that my _D.chrysolepis_ (thanks don!) is going to flower. You may recall this is the beast with the centrosymmetric rotate laminar morphology (oh, I'm in top dissertation-writing form today!). :) Anyway, I wonder if anyone knows if this plant is determinate---i.e. will it die after flowering? Maybe I should take some leaf cuttings... Hey, how are those ``orbs'' on the pings? My U.S.A. Pings are starting to flower. Onto a different topic---Tuberous _Drosera_. Am I the only person who can only grow erect or scrambling or fan-leaved species? I have not been able to grow any rosetted tuberous _Drosera_ for longer than one season. Well, with the exception of _D.bulbosa_ which I seem to be keeping alive. I am growing _D.macrantha_ `Desert Form' and if anyone is ordering tubers from Allen Lowrie, consider purchasing it---it is a very fun plant. It has a prostrate crawling and branching stem which is causing all kinds of problems by getting in other pots etc. A really fun plant---I've nicknamed my plant The Crawling Chaos (for you lovecraft fans). Another great plant is _D.menziesii basifolia_. I have 2-year old plants from seed and this is the first year they are doing the ``basifolia'' bit. They are striking in beauty. Cheers, Barry ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 19:12:22 -0500 Subject: _Drosera Terrerium Thanks everyone who requested info on the bat boxes for the trade of _D. capensis. If you did not recieve the info, email me directly and I will send it to you. However, I would like to create a terrerium planted solely with sundew. What species do best in a terrerium setup and what type of planting medium should be used? I know that sphagnum and peat mixed with course sand has been used in the past. Is there any new soil ideas? Is it best to start with seed or plants ? I hope to join ICPS in the near future so that I may purchase from the seed bank. Are there any CP people that sell plants? I know of three from Florida: O.C. Bramblett, Marie's Orchids, and one other that I can't recall. Hope to hear from you soon. Thanks, Ronnie Spears gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 19:43:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Seedpod >I have a ripe seedpod of a very nice clone of Paphiopedilum folweii (a Philippine slipper orchid) looking for a home. Please post this to all my friends at Newsgroup Bionet.plants. I just heard of someone asking for seed of paphs, but cannot remember who. Thanks, John (sabercat1@aol.com) ################### From: SaberCat1@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 20:06:55 -0500 Subject: The plans have been sent!!! To all my friends at Mailing list: CP's and Newsgroup Bionet.plants. The plans have been sent. Sorry for the delay. I had problems, and over one hundred of you asked!!!!! If you cannot deal with files zipped with PKZIP 2.04, download PKUNZIP204 from an ftp. (write me i'll tell you where.) If you cannot deal with uue encoded files, write me and I'll send a replacement w/o coding. If you, for some reason didn't get it (I got several unknown error messages during the batch transfer). write me and i'll send a replacement. I am switching Internet servers and will never send such a large mailing from AOL, so any replacements will be sent sometime this weekend, after I learn about my new server. John Sabercat1@aol.com ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 11:39:01 +0100 Subject: really rechingeri Krissy, > I was wondering if anyone out there has D. rechingeri. I >really like this pygmy and would like any information on how I might be able >to get it. Are you sure you are looking for _Drosera rechingeri_ STRID? This plant is not very striking (yes, it is interesting...). It has quite small, boring white flowers, and the leaves do look much like any other pygmy leaves. Only the club-shaped stigmas are really fascinating (but I doubt you grow _Drosera_ for their stigmas, do you?). The plant comes from the Kabarri National Park, and it is discussed and depicted in LOWRIEs book as "D.coolamon" LOWRIE nom.nud. (without valid description and type). If you are looking for D.rechingeri auct. non STRID: LOWRIE from Regans Ford, with (really striking) yellow flowers, this was validly described as _D.citrina_ LOWRIE & CARLQUIST (syn. D.chrysochila SCHLAUER). Both species are available as gemmae from Allen Lowrie (6 Glenn Place, Duncraig, 6023, Western Australia, Phone: (09) 4477426) himself. A.L. must have your order by the beginning of March 1995. usual disclaimer Kind regards Jan ################### From: tomas polivka Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:39:11 MET Subject: Re: chrysolepis, orbs, and tubers Hi Barry, I (or rather my wife) also grow tuberous Drosera that you noticed. We prefer rosetted droseras and grow all subspecies from section Erythrorhiza with succesful. The best of them is ssp. squamosa that has red margins of leaves. From scrambling droseras we have only D. nesii (due to its yellow flower) because we have no places for big plants. I will be grateful to you for any notices about growing them. Our plants are still alive after three years of growing. Cheers Tomas ################### From: tomas polivka Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 12:48:24 MET Subject: Re: really rechingeri Jan, please what is the valid name of D. rechingeri??? If I understand well, D. coolamon is not a valid name and the valid name is D. rechingeri that has white flowers. D. citrina is the valid name (?) for the same plant with yellow flower. Am I right? Thans Tomas ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:03:43 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Mycorhizial fungi and Web access Dear Rick, I think, it isn't mycorrhiza, which you have seen at your Drosophyllum-seed. Extern fungi you have e.g. at trees and you will get a special morphology of roots by it. Vascular plants usually possess VA-mycorrhiza (about 80% of all plants are mycorrhizated !!!!, but it is difficult to see; it is intern in the stems and you have to stain it, to find. When I remember right, the was a paper about mycorrhization of Roridula; but not much is known about that matter. But you are right, I also have a Nepenthes-culture, contaminated with yeast and it is growing quite well, sometimes I think, better as without it. Maybe the slow-growing yeast-fungi can supply some complex nutrients to the plant. Are there any further observations of this kind? Bye Joe N. ################### From: telenet!unicorn!dkpurks@uunet.uu.net (David K. Purks) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 06:56:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: seed available I have seed from D.aliciae and D.spatulata 'rotundata' available and would like to exchange it for seed of Drosera species that I don't currently grow - which are: capensis [a] adelae [a] spatulata 'rotundata' [a,s] slackii [] aliciae [s] trinervia [] dielsiana [] madagascariensis MTSA [] spatulata spp formosa [] spatulata spp lovella [] spatulata 'Kansai' [] binata [] arenicola [] Or for gammae of pygmie Drosera I don't have have (send me a message for list). Please send me private mail (don't send answers through the list server) if you're interested. I'll be forwarding whatever seed doesn't get traded to the seed bank so those of you who don't have trade material will have access to it there. Dave ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:33:07 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Plantless On Thu, 19 Jan 1995 gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu wrote: > Hello CP-liners, > Once again I will introduce myself and my interests. My name is > Ronnie Spears. I am a graduate student at Georgia Southern University > doing research on bats! I am also a self proclaimed botonist. I ahve > grown many different species of CP's over the past 15 years. My first was > of course the venus flytrap. I live now in prime carnivor country. > Southeast GA. (more debate material) Near Savannah, GA. My growing > interests include Drosera, Nepenthes, and Cephalotus. Currently my CP > count is zero! I have not grown any carnivors in over two years and I am > feeling a little weak in the knees. This line has sprung my interests once > again. I would like to setup a nice terrerium. What plants would make > great additions. My favorite is Ceph. f. I would like to obtain some of > the Australian tubers in the Drosera family( D. adelae) I hope i spelled it > right. Are there any cultivators of any of these hard to find species. > Most cultivars here in the southeast only have a few species. Most > Cephalotus plants are smaller than a quarter and I seem to have a wonderful > effect on them. I send them to plant heaven. The nicest Ceph. plants that > I have had came from the Atlanta Bot. Garden. It lived for three years. > Its demise happened when I left it outside thinking it could tolerate the > mild GA. winters. WRONG!!! A lite frosting seemed to do this plant in. I > remembered reading that this species could take cool weather. Anyway, if > anyone out there has any seed or plants they would like to shell off. I am > available. Thanks. > > Cheers, > > Ronnie Spears Hello Ronnie, I have several species of tuberous Drosera In Vitro and I try now, to establish it on earth. I hope, I will have success, then I can send you several species, same with e.g. Nepenthes. BTW D. adelae is NO tuberous specie . Bye Joe N. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:37:59 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Plantless On Fri, 20 Jan 1995, tomas polivka wrote: > Yes, you have spelled right - D. adelae - but it is NOT a tuberous > Drosera. D. adelae is from the group of tropical droseras (D. > schizandra, D. prolifera, D. petiolais, D. falconeri, D. > dilatato-petiolaris...). > > Tomas > > To prevent missunderstandings: Tomas, you are right, they are all of the tropical group, but D. adelae, prolifera, schizandra are one (primitive) group and the 'D-petiolaris-complex' another, quite different from each other. Just to prevent confusion ;-). Bye Joe N. ################### From: /G=Loyd/S=Wix/OU=1890CHPI/O=TMGB.URC/@LANGATE.gb.sprint.com Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 08:09:00 -0500 Subject: Comments From Loyd.Wix@URCGB.SPRINT.COM JMS Thanks for the comments re pollination, I wouldn't be at all surprised if your friend is right regarding Ping pollinators. I too suspect moths/butterflies, in addition a guy in the UK also mentioned humming birds especially in relation to the long spurred section Longitubus Pings such as P.laueana. Someone will have to photo them in the act. Barry, RE 'Am I the only person who can only grow erect or scrambling or fan leaved tuberous Drosera' No - I to fall into the same category, I'm not successful with the rosette tubers either. I have D.macrantha ssp eremae and that too crawls all over the place - as you said great fun! D.menziesii basifolia is a superb species with nice large flowers as well as the basifolia bit (reminds me a little of Londons Post Office Tower!) - I've got four buds on mine this year. Finaly - undeveloped Ping flowers. This does seam to happen from time to time - for me this is either with a new species that produces a flower bud for the first time but which fails to develop any further, or when a prolonged dull and damp period of weather sets in just following bud development. Very annoying indeed. Regards Loyd. ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 14:23:09 +0100 Subject: Re: really rechingeri Tomas, > please what is the valid name of D. rechingeri??? _D.rechingeri_ STRID. ;-) >If I understand well, D. coolamon is not a valid name Correct. >and the valid name is D. rechingeri that has white flowers. Correct. > D. citrina is the valid name (?) for the same plant with yellow flower. ^^^^ Incorrect: it is *NOT AT ALL* the same plant. _D.rechingeri_ STRID is (as I am convinced) an isolated species, the closest congener being _D.occidentalis_ (sharing clavate stigmas and rather undivided stipules but with fewer flowers), not closely realted to the very numerous splitoffs of _D.leucoblasta_ (with lanceolate to filiform stigmas, and generally rather large flowers) which have been revived or established recently by A.Lowrie. _D.citrina_ is closer to _D.leucoblasta_. It is approximately as closely (or remotely) related to _D.leucoblasta_ as _D.pycnoblasta_ or _D.pulchella_. It is distinguished from all these by the characteristic gemmae (with a warty vertex) in combination with filiform stigmas. The flowers are sometimes white (this expression has been described as _D.nivea_ in the meanwhile). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 08:13:44 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: chrysolepis, orbs, and tubers > Hey, how are those ``orbs'' on the pings? My U.S.A. Pings are starting > to flower. In case you didn't see my other message, the flowers are doing some strange things. I've developed a strong preference for my U. pubescens which was flowering when I received it, and shows no signs of stopping. Seeing it finally convinced my mother-in-law (who gave me an amaryllis bulb to encourage me in a direction other than CPs) that I'm not growing them for purely morbid reasons. ################### From: "J. T. Mullins" Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 14:44:39 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Nepenthes researcher introduction! My name is Josef Mullins and I am presently a research student at the University of Reading, England. My nationality is actually Irish and for many years I have been a keen member of the 'Carnivorous Plant Society' and occasionally the only Irish member. In fact, I'm probably one of the few people in Ireland to have a Genlisea violacea (Diamantina) growing happily in a home made terrarium! As part of the 'Botanical Diversity of the Indo-Pacific Region Project' I was very fortunate to have been offered a post-graduate position at Reading studying a group of plants that I have always had so much interest in. Having just completed my primary degree at Trinity College Dublin I am quite 'new' to such botanical specialisation and for the time being my work is very much a learning process. The project is loosely titled 'The molecular systematics of the Nepenthaceae in the Indo-Pacific Region' and aims to investigate the higher level relationships of this family using a combination of DNA sequencing, morphology and cladistic techniques. To date most of my work has basically been the collection of literature on Nepenthes and as most of you will appreciate this is quite a daunting task and by no means complete. I have also built a Nepenthes frame within one of the university's heated greenhouses (as humidity wasn't high enough previously) in which I will grow plants to maturity so that any material used will have an available voucher specimen (herbarium specimen). As many of you will be aware both Matthew Jebb and Martin Cheek are currently doing a revision of the genus Nepenthes for the Flora Malesiana and I have been in contact with both. This work is obviously quite important to my own as I hope to use it and some of my own morphological studies to decide which species to prioritise. These species will include some of the major groups of Nepenthes, as defined by morphological discontinuities and geographical distribution, and will be sampled as mentioned earlier. It may also be necessary to do some sampling outside the Indo-Pacific so that these species can be placed in their proper context but this may depend on time constraints. Best wishes, Joe M! P.S. Should anyone wish to contact me directly, my e-mail and postal address are as follows, respectively: J.T.Mullins@Reading.ac.uk Department of Botany, School of Plant Sciences, University of Reading, Whiteknights PO Box 221, Reading RG6 2AS, Berkshire, England. Phone: (0734) 875123 ext. 4090 Fax: (0734) 753676 ################### From: tomas Date: Wed, 25 Jan 95 16:43:25 MET Subject: Re: really rechingeri Jan, thank you for your exhaustive explanation. Tomas ################### From: grheck@macc.wisc.edu Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 11:45:20 -0800 Subject: "Can we make a deal?"-Nepenthes Hello CP fans, I come to you as a humble messanger for a friend who currently does not have direct access to the internet. I am appending his message. You can try to contact Tom directly or if email suits you better, you can send any responses or questions to me and I will pass them along. Greg Heck UW, Madison grheck@macc.wisc.edu **************** Dear CP list, I have seed and seedlings of a number of Nepenthes crosses. These crosses are very unusual and may produce horticulturally valuable plants. Currently I have: N. clipeata x N. dentata (!!!!!!!!!) N. clipeata x N. maxima cf. "Sarwuak" N. clipeata x N. petiolata N. clipeata x N. truncata "Gigantea" N. clipeata x (N. veitchi x N. glabratus) N. veitchi x N. glabatus I would like to trade these crosses for the following species: N. dubia N. edwardstiana (Mt. K. subspecies) N. ephipiata (highly desired) N. inermis N. x kinabalu ensis N. muluensis N. rajah (highly desired) N. villosa and any other rare highland species Adreas are you listening? Signed, Thomas C. Gibson University of Wisconsin Department of Botany 430 Lincoln Drive Madison, WI 53706 phone: 608-262-2593 FAX: 608-262-7509 ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 22:42:42 +0500 XSubject: "Can we make a deal?"-Nepenthes This is Tom Hayes writing from my girlfriend's account and I thought I would take a few minutes to share how I root Nepenthes cuttings...... I take a cutting that is cut right below the third leaf. I peel off the lowest leaf, and then cut the tips off the remaining two leaves to reduce transpiration. I dip the cuttings in the following solution for one minute: 1 Quart of water 10 drops superthrive 5 drops Wood's rooting hormone 10 drops Vitamin B1 (yes, I know B1 is already in superthrive, I add more.) I obtain clear film canisters from a one hour photo lab (they would just throw them out anyway- someboby may as well get more use from them), and poke several small drainage holes in each. I have equal success using either fine vermiculite, or live/dead sphagnum. After pushing the cutting into the container, I place as many as seven such cuttings per gallon ziploc bag. I place these bags side by side under a 40 watt fluorescent shop light that is on 24 hours a day. The cuttings usually root within three weeks - some take a bit longer..... Granted I have not tried this on any of the more difficult species, but hopefully it will work for them as well. (Actually, I have rooted N. tobaica with this method, and people say that it is difficult to root.) The clear film containers enable you to see the roots as they develop, rather than having to disturb the cutting to check. I have a 95% success rate thus far, making the folowing material available: N. x boissense "rubra" N. x mixta N. x trichocarpa N. x wrigleyana N. x wrigleyana Kosobe N. ampularia x mirablis N. ventricosa x globamphora N. mirablis Thailand " Anamensis " "red wings" " "Winged" <--- This one is neat. It doesn't have a plain tendril, the leaf merges with the pitcher. This form is from Australia. N. alata boschiana N. gracilis N. gracilis "red pitchers" N. ventricosa "red pitchers" I prefer to trade, but I also sell plants from the above list from $10-$15. Inquire for specific prices. I realize none of this stuff is really rare, but it is great for someone just getting started with Nepenthes. One additional comment - all my cuttings are relatively small - I am not trying to root tree branches in film containers. Check the cuttings periodically throughout the rooting process because they dry out even though they are in a plastic bag. I also have the following plants available for trade: (these have nothing to do with superthrive) P. primuliflora P. planifolia P. lutea P. grandiflora P. moranensis D. petiolaris "Erect" (Beverly Springs) D. lanata D. petiolaris D. ordensis <--- just described by Allen Lowrie this year I just wanted to mention a few that I thought may be of interest. I can also supply many other species not listed. If anyone wants my complete list, contact me at klmott@plantex.bloom.edu and I will send it as soon as possible. I will be visiting her until this Sunday, so I will be able to personally correspond until then. After Sunday, Krissy will have to relay messages, so that will obviously take longer. I am interested in obtaining the following species (trade for anything above) D. rechingeri (for my girlfriend) and any other pygmies (I lost most of my pygmies this summer, it rained too often & they drowned) P. esseriana P. ehlersae P. colimensis P. oblongiloba P. gypsicola P. zecheri P. agnata P. longifolia Any Mexicans actually :) S. oreophila "Don Schnell" D. x obovata D. schizandra D. nagamoto D. trinervia D. montana var. tomentosa ***DISCLAIMER*** Sorry if I piss anyone off with this message - no offense intended. I am simply trying to find homes for many of my "children" and adopt new ones. One final note concerning superthrive. Dip your drosera leaf cuttings in a solution 10 drops per quart before putting them in live spaghnum. They produce many more plants per leaf. More on this later from the article I am submitting to the CPN. Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- Hayes ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 18:54:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Seed bank Quality > Anyone know of another place you can get Nepenthes > seeds for US$1? Well, Rowland in the UK has 5 species on offer for 0.65 and 0.75 UK pounds. The species are alata, khasiana, madagascariensis, miri(?)bilis (presumably should be 'a'), and pervillei. I have some seedlings raised from their madagascariensis last year - maybe I'll try the others. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Martin=Zevenbergen%Algem%PT.WAU@Vines2.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 10:02:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Sarracenia chemicals > With that said, I have a question for the chemists in the >audience. Has anyone read or heard about a paper that has closely analyzed >the chemical makeup of the water in pitcher plants (i.e. Sarracenia, >Nepenthes)? I have heard all sorts of wild stories about the effect of this >water on insects and humans alike. I know of somebody at our university who does research on the chemical compounds that Sarracenia plants spread in the air to lure insects. I didn't contact him yet. I think they want to know the chemical structure of these compounds, so that they can synthesize them for use in agriculture against pests. Martin ################### From: John Taylor Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 21:28:34 +1100 Subject: Re: Tuberous Drosera Barry writes: >... > >Onto a different topic---Tuberous _Drosera_. Am I the only person who >can only grow erect or scrambling or fan-leaved species? I have not been >able to grow any rosetted tuberous _Drosera_ for longer than one season. >Well, with the exception of _D.bulbosa_ which I seem to be keeping alive. >I am growing _D.macrantha_ `Desert Form' and if anyone is ordering tubers >from Allen Lowrie, consider purchasing it---it is a very fun plant. It >has a prostrate crawling and branching stem which is causing all kinds of >problems by getting in other pots etc. A really fun plant---I've nicknamed >my plant The Crawling Chaos (for you lovecraft fans). Sounds like a nice plant (I'm still a big fan of D. stolonifera ssp. prostrata though I've yet to get hold of a plant). I've had mixed success with fan- leaved sundews. My D.stolonifera ssp. compacta has been growing very well and flowered and possibly multiplied (vegetatively?) last season. It seems to be quite an easy plant to grow (ie. mine's still alive ;-) ). However, my D.stolonifera ssp. rupicola didn't make it past the first summer :-( Regarding erect plants, I've had no trouble with the local D. auriculata and D. macrantha ssp. planchonii ('scuse any spelling mistakes) - but then they aren't terribly difficult plants to grow. The only reason I have against growing more of these plants is the relatively high price of tubers of the more interesting plants. I find it hard to pay $4 say for a single tuber which may or may not grow. It must be said though that Genlisea is an even more expensive plant (relatively speaking) - $12 for a G. violacea? clump 1cm across at most (said to be "flowering size" and "first time released"). On the other hand, Heliamphora plants are becoming more enticing at $25 for small plants - probably half what they cost last year. >Another great plant is _D.menziesii basifolia_. I have 2-year old plants >from seed and this is the first year they are doing the ``basifolia'' bit. >They are striking in beauty. Hmmm - looks like Alan Lowrie's 3 volume "Carnivorous Plants of Australia" is going to be another "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"... ;-) BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 11:41:22 +0000 Subject: Heliamphora +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Andreas Sorry to bother you but do you have any experience in germinating Heliamphora seed? If so, do you know what is best by way of soil type, temperature, watering, etc.? Any advice greatly appreciated! Regards Paul ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:53:07 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: "Can we make a deal?"-Nepenthes Dear Thomas, dear Greg, I would be EXTREMELY interested in seed of some of your Nepenthes-crosses, especially in N. clip x N. dentata and N. clip x N. truncata!!!!!!! I can send you for that several young plants of N. ephippiata, N. inermis, N. rajah, later on also N. villosa and I hope N. muluensis. It would be great, if I could hear soon from you! All the best Joe N. On Wed, 25 Jan 1995 grheck@macc.wisc.edu wrote: > Hello CP fans, > > I come to you as a humble messanger for a friend who currently does not > have direct access to the internet. I am appending his message. You can > try to contact Tom directly or if email suits you better, you can send any > responses or questions to me and I will pass them along. > > Greg Heck > UW, Madison > grheck@macc.wisc.edu > **************** > > Dear CP list, > > I have seed and seedlings of a number of Nepenthes crosses. These crosses > are very unusual and may produce horticulturally valuable plants. > Currently I have: > > N. clipeata x N. dentata (!!!!!!!!!) > N. clipeata x N. maxima cf. "Sarwuak" > N. clipeata x N. petiolata > N. clipeata x N. truncata "Gigantea" > N. clipeata x (N. veitchi x N. glabratus) > N. veitchi x N. glabatus > > I would like to trade these crosses for the following species: > > N. dubia > N. edwardstiana (Mt. K. subspecies) > N. ephipiata (highly desired) > N. inermis > N. x kinabalu ensis > N. muluensis > N. rajah (highly desired) > N. villosa > and any other rare highland species > Adreas are you listening? > > Signed, > Thomas C. Gibson > University of Wisconsin > Department of Botany > 430 Lincoln Drive > Madison, WI 53706 > phone: 608-262-2593 > FAX: 608-262-7509 > > ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 17:34:47 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Heliamphora Dear Paul, you wrote: >... Sorry to bother you... No problem :-) > but do you have any experience in germinating > Heliamphora seed? If so, do you know what is best by way of soil > type, temperature, watering, etc.? I sowed Heliamphora on pure peat and had some luck. However unfortunately they grow extremely slow and what is even worse I lost at least 50% after the first transplant. In this early stage they are very very delicate. Perhaps a more open soil makes transplanting easier. Maybe that coconut stuff? Sow and grow them in a cool humid environment with lots of light. They seem to be dependent on light in order to germinate. I had _much_ better luck sowing them in vitro ;-) What kind of Heliamphora seeds do you have ;-) All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: paul@pcb.co.za Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 19:54:18 +0200 Subject: Subscribe Please subscribe Paul@pcb.co.za to the Carniverous Plants mailing list. ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:06:05 -0700 Subject: ESA and San Diego For those with Web access, the entire text of the Endangered Species Act of 1973 is at http://www.fws.gov/endlist.html There you can also find the lists of endangered species (plant/animal) arranged alphabetically and by state. The only option for downloading I see is in Word Perfect format, which doesn't do me a lot of good. _________________________________________ Oh, Oh, Oh! I'm leaving for San Diego in about 3 hours. Anybody have suggestions on places to go? I'll be there for about three days. I know about Balboa Park and Wild Animal park. Anything else of nice botanical interest? (I know of a sushi restaurant there so good it makes you cry!) If you have suggestions, mail directly to me at bmeyersrice@as.arizona.edu Cheers, Barry ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 13:57:07 +0930 Subject: NEpenthes seed Hi all, Sorry I missed all the banter over the last few days, it seems I became unsubscribed due to the efforts of those who were tinkering with our UNIX box, morons. I just noticed that some Nepenthes seed (N.x Superba x N. veitchii) that I placed on 0.8% distilled water agar have just germinated after 7 weeks. What I would like to know is: What do I do with them now? Do I now transfer them to a nutrient medium with or without hormones? Do I have any other options? My few previous attempts in vitro have been pretty terrible so any helpful hints greatfully accepted. Cheers Terry ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 19:57:26 -0500 Subject: Arthur Greenhall Arthur, I have a few messages to forward to you. Will you send me your email address? Ronnie Spears ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 00:57:00 GMT Subject: Ping. leaf cuttings Hmmm, a question for any Ping. growers on the list. I took some leaf cuttings from a Ping. X 'Weser' back in September ( I know it wasn't the best time to do it, but I was bored and had a few over, ) and they've developed pretty well into leafy plantlets of 6 or so largeish leaves ( the earlier, smaller ones having mostly withered. ) The problem is that they show no inclination to form any roots - they just carry on merrily without them. They seem to be oddly proportioned compared to Spring-started plants, but I guess that's the seasonal thing. I'm sprouting them on perlite at 70F and ~80 % humidity, but they're only getting natural light so I wondered if the short days could be contributing to this? Perhaps a bit of fluorescent light in the evenings would help, but I don't have any proper grow bulbs so I don't know if it would help. Or do I just wait until Spring? ( they do seem to be a bit stressed - leaves dying off quicker than on the parent plant, but mostly keeping up with new leaves.. ) Any thoughts anyone? TIA & good growing, Peter Peter Cole |carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk| Computers, carnivorous plants & Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | caving - what more could I want? ################### From: donb@iglou.com (Don Burden) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 22:29 EST Subject: CP D. chrysolepis: This species should keep on growing after flowering. Flowers are rather large for a Drosera. It is self-fertile. CP Database: I use Lynx to access the CP Database. When I do a search on "image", the list of all GIFs available comes up like it should, but they all seem to be pointing to the same image - "0045.gif", which is the line drawing of Darlingtonia and 2 Sarracenia. This is the only image I can get no matter which species I try. S. leucophylla "white top". I remember the seed bank was offering some of these seeds last year. Did anyone germinate these, and are they the anthocyanin-free form? Paph orchids: Nobody has yet been successful in propagating paphs in-vitro. This is why these species are so expensive. New Nepenthes species: Is N. ovata the same species as the N. pectinata from Kondo's book "CP of the World"?. There's photos in the CPN from March/June 1990 issue that I assume shows some of the new species. On p. 21, "New Nep. sp. from G. Pangulabao" - is that N. ovata also? The line drawing in the current CPN looks more like the N. pectinata in the Kondo book that the one on p. 21 (the pitcher with the wide, brown peristome - the pink pitcher to the left in the same photo looks like N. rhombicaulis). On p. 22 of the March/June 1990, is the N. treubiana shown actually N. longifolia? Is a "real" N. treubiana ever "hipped" as in the photo? On p. 23, is N. bongso actually N. talangensis? I have what I believe to be N. x (ventricosa x talangensis). The seeds were from the seed bank and originally labelled N. x (ventricosa x sp. Talang). One of my plants has a nice dark red peristome like the "N. bongso" photo on p. 23. Was Thomas Alt the originator of this hybrid? What is "N. sp. 'New Species' from G. Pangulubao" on p. 23. The plant is obviously a seedling. Maybe a N. spectabilis hybrid? -- Don Burden New Albany, Indiana, USA donb@iglou.com ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 20:04:59 -0800 Subject: CP WEB update: Drosera Keys Courtesy of Kevin Snively's typing skill we now have a copy of two Drosera keys on the CP WEB page. One is for South African Drosera by OBERMEYER, and the second is for North American Drosera by GLEASON. You can access either page by searching for an appropriate species. (eg: Drosera rotundifolia to get GLEASON, and Drosera capensis for OBERMEYER). These keys also include illustrations. Have fun, -- Rick Walker ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 20:01:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP digest 235 In reply to Tom at klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott), I tried to send you a reply requesting your list, but your board bounced back the msg. Cheers, Phil ---------------------- ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 22:57:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP On Thu, 26 Jan 1995, Don Burden wrote: > Paph orchids: > Nobody has yet been successful in propagating paphs in-vitro. This is > why these species are so expensive. Not true. Paph are raised in-vitro via seeds all the time. I have purchased flasked seedlings many times. They have not been raised in-vitro from tissue culture/meristem culture. I think its only a couple years aways from that though. harold ################### From: "Mr John Peacock" Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 08:37:25 +0000 Subject: JP Introduction Hi. My name is John Peacock and I live at Banstead, Surrey UK, ten miles south of London. I am very much a "jack of all trades master of none" type gardener. In my lifetime (of some forty-odd years) I have held fairly large collections of both cacti and alpines and at present my time is devoted to CPs, ferns, asymbiotic germination of temperate terrestrial orchids (problems) and generally anything unusual. In the past my major motivation has always been in the challenge of propagation especially from seed (I am inherently too mean to buy plants and am a reformed cutting thief!!). In terms of CPs I currently grow them in three separate ways: i) In a purpose-built sphagnum bog garden in a frost free greenhouse. Here I am moderately successful in growing various species of Sarracenia, Drosera and Utrics as well as Cephalotus but not Pinguics.. Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly! ii) In variously constructed beds and ponds in the open garden (winter frosts to ~ -5 C) where Sarracenia, including S.psittacina and hardy Drosera thrive to varying degrees of success. Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly! iii) Recently I have created a series of purpose-built trough gardens made of hypertufa. Again Sarracenia and hardy Drosera species grow well! Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly. As you can gather I have one small problem! D.c. even flowers profusely outside (stems up to 9 inches) but pitchers are always small. Is it because I cannot provide it with a cool root run in the summer? Any other suggestions? Finally I think the list is an excellent idea even though I have only been on for a few days Happy and successful growing and best wishes to all John Peacock (john_p@icr.ac.uk) ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 09:56:07 GMT+1 Subject: Re: CP Dear Don, you wrote: >... > New Nepenthes species: > Is N. ovata the same species as the N. pectinata from Kondo's book > "CP of the World"?. There's photos in the CPN from March/June 1990 issue > that I assume shows some of the new species. On p. 21, "New Nep. sp. > from G. Pangulabao" - is that N. ovata also? The line drawing in the > current CPN looks more like the N. pectinata in the Kondo book that the one > on p. 21 (the pitcher with the wide, brown peristome - the pink pitcher to > the left in the same photo looks like N. rhombicaulis). It is the plant pictured in Kondo's book as N. pectinata. However that is clearly not true (nowadays N. pectinata (the one that was really pectinata _that_ _time_) is N. singalana anyway and N. pectinata is a nomen nudum (see Schlauer & Nerz in Blumea)). N. ovata is most close to N. carunculata but not very close to N. singalana which now includes the former N. pectinata. ;-) > > On p. 22 of the March/June 1990, is the N. treubiana shown actually > N. longifolia? Is a "real" N. treubiana ever "hipped" as in the > photo? The plant pictured in CPN as N. treubiana is _not_ treubiana but N. sumatrana. Real N. treubiana only occurs in Irian Jaya. However N. longifolia is clearly distinct from N. sumatrana. N. treubiana is also clearly distinct from N. sumatrana. I recollected type specimens of N. treubiana in Irian Jaya (original types got lost in WWII) and they differ from the Sumatran plant which (from our view) was erroneously united with the Sumatran plant by Danser. > > > On p. 23, is N. bongso actually N. talangensis? Type specimens of N. bongso are most close to N. carunculata so that Matthew Jebb, who's also here on the list intends to unite both. We (Joe and myself) do not yet agree completely (;-)) however maybe Matthew could comment ;-) However you're right that the plant pictured in CPN is not N. bongso but N. talangensis. The only record of N. bongso in more recent times was by J. and M. deWitte who also photographed the plant. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 10:13:37 +0100 Subject: N.pectinata, again... Andreas, >It is the plant pictured in Kondo's book as N. pectinata. However >that is clearly not true (nowadays N. pectinata (the one that was >really pectinata _that_ _time_) is N. singalana anyway Not completely. We (Joe N. and I) have lectotypified N.pectinata on a specimen representing the Sumatran expression of _N.gymnamphora_ (a distinct subspecies? Matthew, this is your turn). > and N.pectinata is a nomen nudum No. It is by no means a nomen nudum (with DANSERs protologue and our lectotype it cannot be such). It is rejected as a nomen ambiguum and later synonym, DANSERs (syn-)type material of which being composed of specimens of _N.gymnamphora_ and _N.singalana_ (two earlier valid names). > (see Schlauer & Nerz in Blumea)). sic! >(...) N. singalana which now includes the former N. pectinata. _N.singalana_ includes only a part of N.pectinata, the rest (& lectotype) being _N.gymnamphora_. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "J. T. Mullins" Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:03:52 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Nepenthes bongso/carunculata Dear Andreas, Just a short message to let you know that Matthew is away for several weeks. Joe M. > Matthew Jebb, who's also here on the list intends to unite both. We > (Joe and myself) do not yet agree completely (;-)) however maybe > Matthew could comment ;-) ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 09:25:54 +0500 XSubject: Nepenthes bongso/carunculata This is Tom Hayes writing again. I am very interested in obtaining different forms of the Venus Flytrap. I currently have the following forms: anthocyanin free dentata fused-tooth all red red jaws typica variegated I have a limited amount of small plants of several of these forms available for trade. Inquire for availability. Just to emphasize, I have had extremely good luck propagating VFTs, and I would even appreciate just a leaf cutting of any new form. Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 17:01:03 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: CP On Thu, 26 Jan 1995, Don Burden wrote: > D. chrysolepis: > This species should keep on growing after flowering. Flowers are rather > large for a Drosera. It is self-fertile. > > CP Database: > I use Lynx to access the CP Database. When I do a search on "image", the > list of all GIFs available comes up like it should, but they all seem to be > pointing to the same image - "0045.gif", which is the line drawing of > Darlingtonia and 2 Sarracenia. This is the only image I can get no matter > which species I try. > > S. leucophylla "white top". > I remember the seed bank was offering some of these seeds last year. Did > anyone germinate these, and are they the anthocyanin-free form? > > Paph orchids: > Nobody has yet been successful in propagating paphs in-vitro. This is > why these species are so expensive. > > New Nepenthes species: > Is N. ovata the same species as the N. pectinata from Kondo's book > "CP of the World"?. There's photos in the CPN from March/June 1990 issue > that I assume shows some of the new species. On p. 21, "New Nep. sp. > from G. Pangulabao" - is that N. ovata also? The line drawing in the > current CPN looks more like the N. pectinata in the Kondo book that the one > on p. 21 (the pitcher with the wide, brown peristome - the pink pitcher to > the left in the same photo looks like N. rhombicaulis). The N. pectinata from Kondo's book is N. ovata. The same with the plant of the NZ-article in CPN from G. Pangulubao (the original-location of N. ovata). The difference of the photos / drawings are because of slight differences of the pitchers in it's habitat at G. Pangulubao. The pitchers will get more and more elongated, when the plants start to climb. > > On p. 22 of the March/June 1990, is the N. treubiana shown actually > N. longifolia? Is a "real" N. treubiana ever "hipped" as in the > photo? No! BTW, Andreas has shown at his trip to Irian Jaya, that the plants of Sumatra are quite different from the plants of Irian; so, it is better to call the species from e.g. Sibolga in Sumatra 'N. sumatrana' and just the plants from New Guinea as N. treubiana. To get it now more confused: the real N. sumatrana as it is shown in the CPN-article is always hipped in its upper pitchers, so, its appearence is very close at N. rafflesiana. N. longifolia from West-Sumatra is also always hipped in the upper pitchers, but it is much more slender and with a border in the middle of the pitcher. > > On p. 23, is N. bongso actually N. talangensis? > The N. bongso, which are cultivated at moment are all N. talangensis from G. Talang (like the photo, shown in CPN), as I know; The real N. bongso is in it's appearence (until now, just the upper pitchers are known) very close to N. carunculata. It has been collected originally from G. Merapi and later on also e.g. from G. Singgalang. > I have what I believe to be N. x (ventricosa x talangensis). The seeds > were from the seed bank and originally labelled N. x (ventricosa x > sp. Talang). One of my plants has a nice dark red peristome like the > "N. bongso" photo on p. 23. Was Thomas Alt the originator of this hybrid? > I think, it's from the NZ Nepenthes freaks, but I am not sure. > What is "N. sp. 'New Species' from G. Pangulubao" on p. 23. The plant > is obviously a seedling. Maybe a N. spectabilis hybrid? > -- > Don Burden > New Albany, Indiana, USA > donb@iglou.com > I hope I could help you Bye Joe N. ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 13:40:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: The Carnivorous Plants Howdy all, My mother in law was browsing the shelves of a used book store and came across the book "The Carnivorous Plants" by Francis Ernest Lloyd. It is a reprint of the original from 1942. This is the first I've heard of this book. It is actually quite comprehensive on all the CP groups. It even has a section on carnivorous fungus It has very detailed information on each plant including sections in the pitcher plant chapters on the make up of the liquid in the traps. It does not have any cultivation info (from what I've read so far, anyway) but it is great for detailed analysis of each CP group. Chris ################### From: "Ch'Ien Ch'Ien Lee" Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 12:47:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Lost mail & U. humboldtii Hi all, Sorry to have to post this on the list but there was an error in my mailserver which caused the loss of all my incoming messages over the last few days. If anyone sent me mail during this time, please post it again and I'll get back as soon as possible. And BTW, does anyone have a spare clump of U. humboldtii for trade? The University I'm volunteering at wants some for demonstration in their biology classes (because this species presumably has the largest bladders). Thanks, Best wishes, Ch'ien Lee cclee@cats.ucsc.edu ################### From: kevin.snively@pstbbs.com Date: Fri, 27 Jan 95 22:04:19 -0700 Subject: PNWCPC P.N.W.C.P.C. is planning a work party for Feb. 11, 1995 @ 13:30 weather permitting at the Rhododendron Species Foundation in Federal Way, Wa. U.S.A. To continue construction on the outdoor Cp. bog project. >From I-5 take exit # 142 A and go East onto State Highway 16. Take the first exit "Weyerhaeuser Way S." and turn Left "North" Go about 1 mile to the main entrance to he Weyerhaeuser complex and follow the signs to the R. S. F. & Bonsi display. We will be meeing in the parking lot and admission is free for the work party. All intrested Cp'ers in the area are welcome. krs +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ # I.C.P.S. C/O Kevin Snively | 206-252-2911 # # P.O. Box 1013 | ksnive@pstbbs.com # # Everett Wa. 98206-1013 U.S.A. | Secretary/Treasurer I.C.P.S. # +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ ################### From: John Taylor Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 21:51:12 +1100 Subject: Re: "The Carnivorous Plants" >From: Christopher Creel >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: The Carnivorous Plants > >Howdy all, > > My mother in law was browsing the shelves of a used book store >and came across the book "The Carnivorous Plants" by Francis Ernest Lloyd. >It is a reprint of the original from 1942. > This is the first I've heard of this book. It is actually quite >comprehensive on all the CP groups. It even has a section on carnivorous >fungus > It has very detailed information on each plant including sections >in the pitcher plant chapters on the make up of the liquid in the traps. >It does not have any cultivation info (from what I've read so far, anyway) >but it is great for detailed analysis of each CP group. > >Chris I have this book also ('though it has been hijacked by my brother...) and it's very interesting although, from memory, some of the plant names are likely to be well out-of-date. I particularly like the sketches in the back of the book such as those dealing with the various pitcher forms of Cephalotus and Darlingtonia from seedling through mature plants. There are a number of plates of micrographs (photographs of microscope images) too, but mine are poorly reproduced so are very dark making it difficult to see the details. I believe mine was a Dover reprint - I certainly remember that there was a large section in the back of the book listing *lots* of other books from the same publisher (maybe about 30-50 pages??). +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 22:39:15 +0500 Subject: e-mail address Sorry to post this to the listserver, but I would like to talk via e-mail to Harold W. Blazier. Please contact Tom Hayes at the following address: klmott@planetx.bloom.edu if you are still signed on to the discussion group. ################### From: John Taylor Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 12:07:10 +1100 Subject: RHS Colour Chart (& Testing...) Does anyone know where to get (& how much) the Royal Horticultural Society's "Colour Chart"? Allen Lowrie mentioned it in one of his old catalogues and I thought it might be quite useful (eg. for giving accurate and meaningful names to pink-purple colours.) I just had a message bounce trying to send it to the CP group - hopefully this one will work... BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 10:09:04 -0700 (MST) Subject: Feeding CP's I would be interested to know how other people are feeding their CPs. Presently I am sporadically spraying my drosera with Peter's 20-20-20 diluted 1/2 tsp/gallon. The seem to respond to the spray with movement as if they had caught some gnats. I do not fertilize my Sarracenia or cephalotus. Should I? I also have 2 VFT that I feel should be fed but I do not know what to give them. The red variety has 1 inch traps, the green variety has 1/2 to 3/4 inch traps. What size traps does everyone else have and what are you using for food? Someone ealier mentioned around 5 forms of VFT but I have only heard of the two above. Could someone elaborate on the others? Thanks for the help. John Rising ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 10:17:42 -0700 (MST) Subject: Dormancy Help Another question for everyone. My D. filiformis var. tracyi has broken its dormancy cycle. It has only been dormant for about 2 months. I read in Pietropaolo's book that it should be dormant for 4 to 5 months. Will this shortened dormancy hurt the plant? Is it possible to put it back into dormancy? I kept it in a darkened room, but this year didn't refridgerate it like I had in the past. I nearly lost it from drying out in the fridge once so I thought I'd try something different. I also plan on purchasing more sarracenia this spring. What can I do to keep these plants dormant in the winter? All I have is a cool basement (40-50 degrees F) and won't have room in a refridgerator for all the ones I want. Any suggestions? Thanks! John ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 18:54:57 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: tubers In Vitro Hello everybody, has anybody an idea, in which way I could induce my Australian tuberous Drosera to produce tubers In Vitro? All the best Joe N. ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:22:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dormancy. > on purchasing more sarracenia this spring. What can I do to keep these > plants dormant in the winter? All I have is a cool basement (40-50 > degrees F) and won't have room in a refridgerator for all the ones I > want. Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > > John > Where do you live? Odds are that you can either place them outside all winter, or for a large portion. Bringing them in only when long periods of VERY cold weather (below 0 F) are expected. This winter has been especially warm, and I have only had to bring stuff in a couple of times. Plus snow cover insulates the plants. Your basement is probably cool enough for dormancy as it is. Place them down their in some sort of a tank/terrarium and let them get a littke light. Be careful not to let them dry out completely. JMS ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 11:47:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Dormancy Help You wrote: > > My D. filiformis var. tracyi has broken its dormancy cycle. Will >this shortened dormancy hurt the plant? Is it possible to put it back >into dormancy? > > Having seen these critters in the wild often enough I give give you my insight. Oftentimes during a warm winter, or when the weather patterns are screwed up both the pitchers and the Droseras will break early. Unless this is a habitual occurence, I can't see any harm from it. John -- ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 14:41:31 +0500 XSubject: Re: Dormancy Help John, you wrote: >Another question for everyone. My D. filiformis var. tracyi has broken >its dormancy cycle. It has only been dormant for about 2 months. I read >in Pietropaolo's book that it should be dormant for 4 to 5 months. Will >this shortened dormancy hurt the plant? Is it possible to put it back >into dormancy? I kept it in a darkened room, but this year didn't >refridgerate it like I had in the past. I nearly lost it from drying out >in the fridge once so I thought I'd try something different. I also plan I would not try to get your plant to go dormant again. It may just depart this world and go off to CP heaven...... You know, where there is nothing but endless swamps:) You should just let it grow at this point. I have never had problems with starting the US hibernacula forming species early. In fact, I start several of each species under lights towards the end of January, just so I can look at them. They grow just as well as the ones started later. In the future, you might want to store the hibernacula wrappped in moist spaghnum and placed in a plastic bag. I store hundreds of them that way, and have no problems. Take a few leaf cuttings just in case something does happen to the original plant. Simply remove a whole leaf and lay it in a tray of live spaghnum. Then sit back and wait for nature to do the rest. Hope this helps! -Tom- Hayes (& Krissy) ################### From: John Taylor Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 10:21:56 +1100 Subject: Am I getting through to the list?? Can someone let me know if this message gets through to the CP list please? For some reason, the last couple of messages have bounced - I've never had this trouble before. :-( Thanks in advance, +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Ann Whitehead Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 15:46:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Am I getting through to the list?? You are getting through O.K. to me. My problem is, I can't seem to get off this list no matter what I do! Ann (whist@crl.com) On Sun, 29 Jan 1995, John Taylor wrote: > Can someone let me know if this message gets through to the CP list > please? For some reason, the last couple of messages have bounced - > I've never had this trouble before. :-( > > Thanks in advance, > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology > | | > | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | > | | Melbourne, Victoria, > | | AUSTRALIA | > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > > ################### From: John Taylor Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:47:14 +1100 Subject: OFF-TOPIC TOPIC - Thylacine rediscovered? A while back the (off-)topic of Thylacines came up. A day or so ago, there was a news report that a National Parks Ranger (or similar) has sited a Thylacine in NE Tasmania. The NPs are investigating the siting further, but it seems to be a fairly reliable one. Looks like the Tassie Tiger isn't extinct afterall! :r.sig ################### From: John Taylor Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:20:46 +1100 Subject: Re: My mail problem... Hmm - very strange. Our domain *did* change from ".oz.au" to ".edu" but I could have sworn that I'd updated all the mailing list addresses... I'll un-resubscribe again and see if it works this time. Thanks for all your replies/suggestions. BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.oz.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 8:32:08 +200 Subject: Am I getting through to the list?? -Reply Dear John, Reading you loud and clear in South Africa. Best Regards Rogan Roth. ################### From: Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 11:36:56 +0100 Subject: Galapagos Crisis (not CP) I got this letter from a friend who got it from another friend etc. I have removed a lot of adresses Although it's off-subject, it's interesting (It makes my even more convinced that mankind is to stupid to survive). This letter was posted on the ABS network and I thought you would be interested. ************************************************************************ * Galapagos Crisis Dear Fellow Scientists - Very disturbing news is coming out of the Galapagos Islands in Ecuador. Those of us who care deeply about the islands are trying to bring the ecological crisis described below to the attention of the international scientific community. The information below is retyped from a FAXed letter I recently received from Macarena Green in Quito. She is a biologist who worked on ascidians and is now a naturalist in the islands. She can be reached by FAX at Andando Tours in Quito at 593-2-443188. Please write a letter to the President of Ecuador at the address provided below. I will cross-post this several times (to TAXACOM, MOLLUSCA, and PALEONET) so you might get it more than once, and please feel free to post it to additonal news groups. I can be reached by e-mail, phone, FAX, & snail mail: Matthew J. James Associate Professor and Chairman Department of Geology Sonoma State University Rohnert Park, California 94928 USA matt.james@sonoma.edu voice: 707-664-2301 (my office) voice: 707-664-2334 (Dept. office) FAX: 707-664-2505 or FAX: 707-664-3012 The original FAX is retyped below: ***************************************** Quito, 12 de Enero de 1995 Quito, January 23, 1995 FAX: 707-664-2505 Attn: Dr. Matt James Dear Dr. James, I received your fax in regards the sea cucumber exploitation in the Galapagos. Following you will find some general information as to how things have developed. As you must know since 15th of October of 1994 the sea cucumber fisheries was legally opened in the Islands. Most of the activities took place in Bolivar Channel (western side of the Archipelago) and principally the west coast of Isabela and all around Fernandina Islands. Until the 15 of December there were over 800 fishermen working on the exploitation of the sea cucumber, Isostichopus fuscus in that area. It was calculated that each of them was collecting over 1500 sea cucumbers daily. Besides that these people lived in small boats on which they carried live chickens, as a source of food, unwashed vegetables and other introduced organisms that if they landed by chance on one of the Islands could germinate. It is known that onboard the boats there were rats, mice and introduced insects. They were cleaning their bilges and throwing all their garbage overboard. Most of them were anchored only 20 feet from the shore line of Fernandina Island. When the cucumber fisheries was opened a limit of 550,000 sea cucumbers, in three month season, was established. However, in two months it had exceeded more than 7 million. By the beginning of December reports on the abuse of the resource went to the different official involved, to the news and to the press. There were reports that the fishermen were not only collecting sea cucumbers, but sea horses, snails, sea urchins and black coral. Also, one fisherman admitted that they had already sent to Japan sea lion penises as a try out for a new aphrodisiac. The Japanese buyer paid $50 dollars for each penis. The 15th of December the sea cucumber fisheries was officially closed until technical and scientific studies were done, due to the abuse that had occurred in the first two months. The people involved in such lucrative, yet devastating, enterprise were not about the accept the new disposition. The first days of January, 1995, they took over the installations of the Park Service and the Darwin Station. They kept all the people inside as hostages, including the wives of many of the workers and children. They threatened to kill all the tortoises in captivity at the Station and they threatened to start fires on little islands like South Plaza and Santa Fe, also they demanded that Chantal Blanton and Arturo Izurieta resign their positions as director of the respective institutions. It was quite strange to see the total absence of the police and military help. In Quito some government officials said that this time they will not let them get their way, and that the fishermen will have to change their attitude, but on Friday, January 6 the director of the National Institute of Fisheries went to Puerto Ayora and offered the fishermen that by the 13th of January they could start catching sea cucumbers again. All the people involved in tourism and science in Puerto Ayora got together and decided to take actions in case this type of activity started again. So in Quito and Guayaquil the minister of Fisheries met with the fishermen and the people involved and after getting pressure from all the environmental groups, the association of travel agents, the association of ecotourism, the association of tour operators in Galapagos, and the government of Spain. He felt in the position to close the Pepino (Cucumber) fisheries until October of the present year. All the groups named above have got together to fight for the same cause. Our aim is to persuade the government to close all types of industrial fisheries in the Galapagos, to stop all type of exportation of any resource that comes from the Islands, to include the marine area within the National Park and be managed by only one institution and to make the law come true. As you know there is a master plan to manage the marine resources reserve, but it is completely ignored. We have strong reason to beleive that there is someone very powerful involved in the exploitation and commercialization of sea cucumbers in the Galapagos waters. It seems the Ecuadorian government is doing very little to fight against this type of exploitation. however we have noticed that when there is international pressure their attitude changes. If you could get together in the States and write a demanding letter to the President of Ecuador, I think that they may think twice about opening the Pepino or any other type of fisheries in the Galapagos. In fact I think that the same letter should be sent to the Ecuadorian press. The address of the President of Ecuador is: Arq. Sixto Duran Ballen Presidente Constitucional de la Republica de Ecuador Palacia de Gobierna Quito - ECUADOR We are sending information in regards all this matter to Jack Grove. Please contact him if you need more detailed information or if you need to coordinate any moves from your side. It is time that the world demands from the Ecuadorian government the right type of management for the Galapagos Islands as a whole. We need international pressure and demands in order to save the Galapagos Islands. We appreciate your help very much. Let us know if you need more information. With best regards, (Signed) Macarena Green FAX: 593-2-443188 ***End of Original FAX*** ----- End Included Message ----- ################### From: Harry Dewey Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 06:14:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Galapagos Crisis (not CP) Dear Ms. Williams: It's hard to believe the situation described below has escaped the attention of the Washington Post, and I think I must somehow have missed reading about it there, but in case it somehow has not been ventilated in the Post (and is not a hoax) I am forwarding it to you for your attention and possible airing there. Harry Dewey ################### From: Heiko Rischer Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 13:09:09 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: tubers In Vitro On Sun, 29 Jan 1995, Joachim Nerz wrote: > has anybody an idea, in which way I could induce my Australian tuberous > Drosera to produce tubers In Vitro? What about trying abscisinic acid, though I did not try this myself ????? Regards Heiko ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 08:31 EST Subject: RE: Galapagos Crisis (not CP) > > Dear Ms. Williams: It's hard to believe the situation described below has > escaped the attention of the Washington Post, and I think I must somehow > have missed reading about it there, but in case it somehow has not been > ventilated in the Post (and is not a hoax) I am forwarding it to you for > your attention and possible airing there. A grad student in the Botany department here at MSU visited the Galapagos over the Christmas break. While he was not aware of the full extent of these difficulties, he does verify the problem at Darwin Station and the overall mess that is brewing. So I don't think this is a hoax. Michael ################### From: Harry Dewey Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 08:38:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: New Subscriber in Beltsville, Maryland, USA I first became interested in carnivorous plants when living (1962-1966) in New Gretna, New Jersey, which is in the well-known pine barrens of southern New Jersey. I kept a sailboat at nearby Tuckerton, to which I commuted from 1957 until moving to the area (from Brooklyn NY). During those ten years I did a lot of canoeing (several times a week from spring to fall) and about once a week in the winter. The charms of that area and that activity are detailed in The Little Rivers of New Jersey, a book I practically wore out. The bogs adjoining those rivers abound in droseras and sarracenias. One of my fondest recollections of those days is a canoeing trip on the Oswego with my dear friend Marian Hanscom and her two children, then about ten and eight. Both children were fascinated with the idea of carnivorous plants, and, warning that it should be the only plant that we might damage, I allowed Carol to pick the main stem of one of the sundews when I stopped the canoe along an area that teemed with them. We continued downstream, and as I explained about the sticky substance that attracted and then trapped insects, she suddenly screamed with delight, "Oh! It's caught a fly!" And sure enough, it had. Carol, where are you? Do you still go canoeing? Do you still remember the first fly you ever caught with a sundew, so long ago? I do. I'm delighted to be here. Harry Dewey ################### From: Harry Dewey Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 09:19:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Galapagos Crisis (not CP) Dear Michael: Thanks for the reassurance that the Galapagos situation is not a hoax. I've forwarded it to Margo Williams at the Post; she contributes to their "Networkings" column regularly. The Post would not, of course, publish any serious charges against a government without making sure no hoax was involved. I should have left any mention of the possibility out of my message, as the Post is quite capable of watching out for its own interests. So I tender my apologies to you and any others who may have been offended merely as a result of my allusion. No harm was intended, and I do think an article in the Post, if one has not already been printed, would have a powerful effect on the situation there. Harry Dewey ################### From: "Patrick Cox" Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 10:40:41 AST Subject: Re: tubers In Vitro On Mon, 30 Jan 1995, Heiko Rischer worte: => =>On Sun, 29 Jan 1995, Joachim Nerz wrote: =>> =>> has anybody an idea, in which way I could induce my Australian tuberous =>> Drosera to produce tubers In Vitro? => =>What about trying abscisinic acid, though I did not try this myself ????? I would suggest using Kinetin and keeping the jars in darkness. Wrap them in foil. TTYL, ''' Plant Science Computer Technician Patrick Cox (o o) Nova Scotia Agricultural College ---------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------------ A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde ################### From: Robert St-Jean Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 10:30:36 -0500 Subject: Superthrive removed from store shelves I've just learned that Superthrive has been removed from store shelves in Canada. Instead, there is a product called Powerthrive, that was recommended to me. Is anyone familiar with Powerthrive. Could this product be used instead of Superthrive and produce similar results on CPs? Thanks in advance, Robert in Ottawa robert.st-jean@es.nrcan.gc.ca ################### From: James Powell Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 10:16:53 -0500 Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC TOPIC - Thylacine rediscovered? > > A while back the (off-)topic of Thylacines came up. A day or so ago, there > was a news report that a National Parks Ranger (or similar) has sited a > Thylacine in NE Tasmania. The NPs are investigating the siting further, but > it seems to be a fairly reliable one. Looks like the Tassie Tiger isn't > extinct afterall! > > :r.sig > > Hi, I have enjoyed your postings about the thylacines. I have been toying with the idea of setting up a cryptozoology list. Do you think this would be a good idea for a list? On another topic, I am planning a trip to Australia/Malaysia in December. Coincidentally, Tasmania is one of my destinations. Where do you live in Australia? I could use some pointers about places to see as I am just now understanding how large Australia really is... James. --- James Powell - Library Automation, University Libraries, VPI&SU jpowell@borg.lib.vt.edu - NeXTMail welcome here Owner of VPIEJ-L, a discussion list for Electronic Journals Archives: http://borg.lib.vt.edu:80/ gopher://borg.lib.vt.edu:70/ file://borg.lib.vt.edu/~ftp ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 13:11 EST Subject: RE: off-topic topics (Thylacines) > > Hi, > > I have enjoyed your postings about the thylacines. I have been toying with > idea of setting up a cryptozoology list. Do you think this would be a good > idea for a list? I too have enjoyed the occasional off-topic foray ( and have been the evil instigator of a few myself :-) I don't mind seeing the off-topic discussions here. CP talk will naturally wander off into many directions such as TC recipes, obscure taxonomic quibbles,regional ecology and eco-politics, Sphagnum-induced pathologies, and the like. These far reaches may be less enjoyable to one or the other reader than a generalized Thylacine discussion. On the other hand, with posting volume here ever on the rise, I can certainly understand the complaint about off- topic subjects, when mail boxes may already be over-filled. I'm not sure what cryptozoology is. I imagine zoological groups already exist,and probably specific groups for some taxa like bats (or there should be). But I probably wouldn't read them to answer a simple question, since adding another newsgroup would REALLY overload my mailbox. So I'd favor allowing off-topic discussions without sanctions. In my opinion they offer welcome spice to the group. But the off-topic discussions shouldn't be dragged on and on. After a time the interested/informed parties (culprits) will be apparent, and should reroute their discussion to email. Hopefull we can all manage to live by this is a courteous fashion? :-) Michael ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:31:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: Pygmy sundews I don't mind the occasional off-topic topic myself, especially since I pick up a lot of side-information which (with my unbelievable ability to store trivia) may someday be useful. But, in an on-topic note: I've got a colony of D. nitudula X occidentalis, and they've all put up flowering scapes, but none of them seem to be opening with the exception of one which has opened partially. They've been like this for about two weeks now. Am I doing something wrong, or is this normal? ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 12:49:36 -0700 Subject: Naming plants I just finished writing a note to another CPer re: the appropriate way to note plants on their lists. Some of the questions were... >What the %^&*$# is the right way to list plants? >When do you use ( ) " " and ` ' >what is the difference (if any) between TYPE and typica? >should it be anthocyanin free, heterophylla, or alba >furthermore, how about var., subsp., form etc..... I've spent a lot of time on this matter, because I want to make sure my list is botanically accurate but also I wish to include information about each of my plants (I'm pretty anal about accuracy on these matters). So I thought I'd post my response to the group as I think it may be helpful. ****The botanical name**** There are two parts of the plant's botanical name. The first part is the correct latin name of the plant, consisting of the genus and species. The genus should be capitalized, and the entire genus+species should be italicised. For email purposes I approximate this with underscore characters like this... _Utricularia sandersonii_. If some botanist had legitimately described some additional subdivisions like subspecies or variety or form these should also be included, still in italics like _D.binata var. multifida f. extrema_. These correct botanical names are listed in Jan's database available via the web page or the listserv. The second part of the name you may wish to include is the botanist's name that described the plant. I've rarely seen horticulturists do this, but this information is also available via Jan's list. If the plant has been renamed a few times in its botanical history, parentheses may be used in this part of the name and so should probably be avoided in optional descriptions you may wish to use (see below) ****Horticultural add-ons**** In tracking the plants in your descriptions you may wish to tack on more information. Now Jan hates it when I do this, because he is concerned (and rightly so) with people mistaking these add-ons for botanically significant descriptions. But it is simply human nature to want to note which plants in your collections you have, whether for trading purposes or simply greenhouse records. 1) Cultivars The first kind of add-on description (and the only one that Jan doesn't mind) is for a cultivar, which is a plant which has been selected as special, and has been described in an article published in a journal of large circulation. The cultivar name is enclosed in single quotes. For example, the cultivar _S.leucophylla_ `Sonoran Song' (which doesn't exist---I just made it up for this example). 2)Interesting characters What about plants that we have in our collections that have interesting characteristics that we wish to note, for example a taller than normal plant or a plant from Waycross Georgia? You can note such plant any way you want, just as long as it doesn't conflict with the special codes already reserved for the botanical name (italics) or cultivar (single quotes). For example you could call it: _U.juncea_ ``tall, from Waycross GA'' or _U.juncea_ (tall, from Waycross GA) or _U.juncea_ ---tall, from Waycross GA or _U.juncea_ ***tall, from Waycross GA*** or whatever you want, but NOT _U.juncea_ `tall, from Waycross GA' or _U.juncea tall, from Waycross GA_ I think you should avoid parentheses for the reasons I noted above. Also, as I recall you should not latinized your descriptors since they might be confused for botanical names. I use a long dash since to me it seems the most grammatically appropriate. Double quotes seem dangerously close to single quotes, so I avoid them. 3)TYPE and typica Allan Lowrie refers to some plants as TYPE, for example Byblis liniflora TYPE I think this is probably wrong since the word TYPE refers to the single plant that is used to describe the entire species. So unless Allen got seeds from the original herbarium specimen, TYPE is misleading. I think he means that the plant conforms to the appearance of the plant in the original description, in which case just _Byblis liniflora_ would be fine, or maybe _Byblis liniflora_ ``normal plant'' would be fine. Using the word ``typica'' (often italicised) is bogus for the same reason, and with the error compounded by the latinization sin. 4)Alba and Heterophylla Unless in the botanical or cultivar name, such as _S.purpurea purpurea f. heterophylla_ or _D. rotundifolia_ `alba' (which I just made up as an example), you shouldn't use these as they are latinised and also by themselves not very informative. For example, alba means white. What is white? The flower? The leaves? I'm reminded of how some growers call their plants things like _S.psittacina_ alba-foliate. What's so fancy about the bogus latin descriptor, when _S.psittacina_ `little red colour in the leaves' is far more descriptive and accurate than ``white-leaves''. Heterophylla means ``different-leaf''. This is usually used when the plant has two types of leaves (perhaps phyllodia). Since it was unfortunately used for the pigment free _S.purpurea purpurea_, it is mistakenly thought among CPers that the term can be pegged onto any plant with this mutation. Instead you should use non-latinised descriptors like _S.leucophylla_ ``very little red pigment'' or _U.calycifida_ ``white flower.'' In the rare genetic case where there is no red pigment in the plant you may which to note the plant as _S.leucophylla_ ``no anthocyanin pigment'' or something like that. In the case of _S.purpurea purpurea f. heterophylla_ this would of course be redundant information. Cheers, Barry ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 15:41:13 EST Subject: Botanical names I've just read Barry's piece on correct plant names, and it is very helpful, at least to me. However, it leaves open one question that I occasionally think about: What's the difference between 'var,' 'ssp,' and 'f'? Is this largely a matter of some botanist's personal preference, or are there clear rules for when each should be used. I thought that I understood cultivar, but with Barry 's explanation, I'm not quite sure. Barry says "a plant which has been selected as special, and has been described..." I thought that a cultivar was a particular form that had been (artifically) developed, and would breed true as to color, shape, .... Bob korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 15:05:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Botanical names (Sorry Long) You wrote: > >I've just read Barry's piece on correct plant names, and it is very helpful, >at least to me. However, it leaves open one question that I occasionally >think about: What's the difference between 'var,' 'ssp,' and 'f'? Is this korfhage@lis.pitt.edu > > I am involved with a lot of different plant groups and I have hung out with a lot of plant taxonimists. You would get two different answers from the two main classes of taxonomists. The Lumper: He instantly discards any thing like subspecies, variety or forma. He subscribes to the broad species concept. The Splitter: He loves to publish and see his (her) name in Index Kewensis. According to him, a subspecies different enough from the main species to deserve recognition, but not enough to merit a new species. This new subspecies will generally be based upon GEOGRAPHIC SEPERATION from the main species. The variety ranks below subspecies and is generally applied to size 'Maxima' or color 'Rubra'. (P.S. As a lumper, this is as stupid as calling a Negro Human: Homo sapien var. Nigrum or a genetic dwarf Homo sapien 'minima' Genetic varieation in color, size or even minor physical traits does not make for a new species) 'Forma' is along the same lines, and was in vogue many years ago. Cultivar has been previously explained, what most other plant groups do(especially the Bromeliad people), is refer to things like "maxima" as cultivars even though by definition they must originate in the wild. Some groups in particular the Heliconias will say Large form or Red Form. I think this is the most resonable. BTW...God never made a species or a subspecies. Man decides what is or isn't a species and a published species isn't a given it's only one persons opinion, open to debate. John -- ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 00:34:03 GMT Subject: scale insects I've got an infestation of scale insects on my Nepenthes X 'coccinea', and despite picking them off by hand several times they keep returning. Anyone know if it's safe to use an emulsion or meths on Neps or should I just carry on trying to manually remove them? I just hope they don't spread to my other plants... On a different note, I've built a terrarium fitted with those low-energy fluorescent bulbs that are being marketed as replacements for regular incandescent bulbs - ( 23W bulbs producing 1500 lumen, ) and I'm trying it out with some surplus Drosera and Dionaea ( ~6000 lux on a 16 hour cycle. ) I'll post a progress report in a few weeks / months when the plants have adjusted - I don't know what the spectrum is like, but any deficiencies should show up by then. They're a hell of a lot cheaper than grow bulbs so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Anyone else ever tried these? Happy growing, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | "It is the business of the Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | future to be dangerous..." ################### From: John Taylor Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 10:36:56 +1100 Subject: Re: Pygmy sundews >I don't mind the occasional off-topic topic myself, especially since >I pick up a lot of side-information which (with my unbelievable >ability to store trivia) may someday be useful. >But, in an on-topic note: >I've got a colony of D. nitudula X occidentalis, and they've all put >up flowering scapes, but none of them seem to be opening with the >exception of one which has opened partially. They've been like this >for about two weeks now. Am I doing something wrong, or is this >normal? My plants seem to only flower during the day, particularly if it is sunny. Perhaps increasing the amount of light to your plants would help? (I have the "Lake Badgerup" form of this hybrid and the flowers do open fully). The flowers of these plants often open only for a short time during the day. I've often missed several open flowers on other pygmy species (ones with multiple flowers per scape) before actually seeing one open... (Check them as often as possible!) Hope this helps... +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.edu | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 17:51:23 -0800 Subject: Cultivar Seed Confusion > 1) Cultivars I'd like to mention a peeve that was brought to my attention by Peter D'Amato: Named cultivars must always be asexually propagated to retain their name. Recently, certain seed sources have offered seed labeled: _Drosera x 'california sunset'_, and _Sarracenia x 'Judith Hindle'_. These names are being used incorrectly, and plants grown from such seed should never be labeled by their parent's cultivar name. In fact, many growers purposely destroy seed produced from named varieties to prevent confusion with the original plant. If you do offer such seed, please label it by the hybrid formula, rather than by the cultivar name. -- Rick Walker ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 20:47 EST Subject: RE: var., ssp., forma. > >I've just read Barry's piece on correct plant names, and it is very > helpful, > >at least to me. However, it leaves open one question that I > occasionally > >think about: What's the difference between 'var,' 'ssp,' and 'f'? Is > this > korfhage@lis.pitt.edu > > > > > > I am involved with a lot of different plant groups and I have hung out > with a lot of plant taxonimists. You would get two different answers > from the two main classes of taxonomists. > The Lumper: He instantly discards any thing like subspecies, variety or > forma. He subscribes to the broad species concept. > The Splitter: He loves to publish and see his (her) name in Index I beg to differ here. Firstly, the issue of lumping and splitting has little to do with the distinction of varieties (var.), subspecies (ssp.), or forms (f.). The splitter places a greater weight on variation within a group, and so recognizes more taxa (different named units) within that group. The lumper chooses to place a greater emphasis on the similarities that exist in spite of variation, and in so doing recognizes fewer taxa within a group. A splitter may recognize ten species within a genus, while a lumper may recognize only five species within that same genus. They need not designate infraspecific taxa (var., ssp., f.) in their treatments of the genus. Neither lumping nor splitting is "bad". However, any proposed changes in nomenclature should be substantiated with documented reasons for doing so, not just because the reviewer "felt like it" or wanted to author a new taxon. > Kewensis. According to him, a subspecies different enough from the main > species to deserve recognition, but not enough to merit a new species. > This new subspecies will generally be based upon GEOGRAPHIC SEPERATION > from the main species. The variety ranks below subspecies and is > generally applied to size 'Maxima' or color 'Rubra'. (P.S. As a lumper, > this is as stupid as calling a Negro Human: Homo sapien var. Nigrum or a > genetic dwarf Homo sapien 'minima' Genetic varieation in color, size or > even minor physical traits does not make for a new species) 'Forma' is > along the same lines, and was in vogue many years ago. The variety, subspecies, and form are infraspecific taxa. That is, taxonomic divisions below that of species. The species is generally considered to be the most important evolutionary unit within the taxonomic hierarchy, and also the most redily recognized unit by both modern and culturally primitive people (though ramifications of the species concept are hotly debated). All genera have at least one species. Not all species have been divided into infraspecific taxa. In the taxonomic hierarchy, subspecies is a higher level than variety, however these two categories have NOT been used consistently by botanists. For practical purposes you can usually consider var. to be synonomous to ssp. although the two should not be used interchangeably. Both descriptors refer to morphological variation usually involving several charactors and having a geographical basis. Hybridization is commonly found between different ssp. or vars. of a species. Natural hybridization may blur the distinction between varieties of a species (or subspecies of a species) and this is one of the most common reasons why these taxa are not raised to the level of distinct species. Whenever an infraspecific taxon is designated in a species, TWO infraspecific taxa are automatically created. For example, when Macfar. (J. M. Macfarlaine)?investigated Drosera filiformis, he considered the species to consist of two different "kinds" of plants, one he described as D. filiformis var. tracyi.This automatically created D. filiformis var. filiformis, the "other" kind of D. filiformis. This name is called the autonym, and is automatically created. Because the type specimen of D. filiformis was not of the "tracyi" kind, it became the autonym or "nominal variety" when the "new" variety, v. tracyi, was described. The category form is used to describe variation which does not have a geographical basis, and which is usually sporadic in a population. Anthocycanin-lacking individuals occur infrequently in plant populations and have sometimes been formally recognized as forms. However, the use of form is often discouraged, except for extremely unusual variants, or forms which occur in economically important plant groups. As Barry has pointed out, variation can be described in other ways than formal designation of forms. (I am not sure about the creation of autonyms when forms are designated). > BTW...God never made a species or a subspecies. Man decides what is or > isn't a species and a published species isn't a given it's only one > persons opinion, open to debate. Taxonomists believe that God (or more properly, evolution) DID create species (as well as infraspecific variation) which we HOPE are adequately described by our taxonomic descriptions :-) Michael ################### From: wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl (Wim Osterholt) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 02:54:26 +0100 (MET) Subject: low energy lamps Peter, > On a different note, I've built a terrarium fitted with those > low-energy fluorescent bulbs that are being marketed as replacements > for regular incandescent bulbs - ( 23W bulbs producing 1500 lumen, ) >.. > Anyone else ever tried these? I have a few of these at short distance above my plants. D.'s are developing nice red leaves as they would do under sunlight. Don't worry about heat radiation from the lamps, there's hardly any. (Think of a lamp working temperature of 40-60 centigrades.) Regards, Wim. ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- (wim@morgana.gds.nl) ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 13:03:55 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: scale insects According to Peter Cole: > > I've got an infestation of scale insects on my Nepenthes X >'coccinea', and despite picking them off by hand several times they >keep returning. Anyone know if it's safe to use an emulsion or meths >on Neps or should I just carry on trying to manually remove them? I >just hope they don't spread to my other plants... > A systemic insecticide like Rogor works a treat if you can stand the smell. Speaking of Nepenthes problems, I have one that looks like it is slowly succumbing to some sort of fungus. The plant got badly burnt and after that the parts of the plant that were not burnt are going brown and watery/mushy - I have tried a systemic fungicide but that has not helped much. Has anyone any other treatments? -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 23:21 EST Subject: Re: Feeding CP's > I would be interested to know how other people are feeding their CPs. > Presently I am sporadically spraying my drosera with Peter's 20-20-20 > diluted 1/2 tsp/gallon. The seem to respond to the spray with movement as > if they had caught some gnats. I do not fertilize my Sarracenia or > cephalotus. Should I? I also have 2 VFT that I feel should be fed but I > do not know what to give them. The red variety has 1 inch traps, the > green variety has 1/2 to 3/4 inch traps. What size traps does everyone > else have and what are you using for food? Someone ealier mentioned > around 5 forms of VFT but I have only heard of the two above. Could > someone elaborate on the others? Thanks for the help. > > John Rising I feed all my CP (Heliamphora, Sarr., Darlingtonia, Drosera, Nepenthes, Cephalotus) a solution of fertilizer at 1/3 the recommended strength. I do try to avoid fertilizer with extra calcium or copper as I have heard that these are poisonous to Heliamphora. I recently tried an "experiment" of increasing the strength of the solution; at about 50% recommended dose the Cephalotus began to suffer, and at about 66% the Heliamphora also began to suffer (leaves were browning early). I should mention that I increased the strength over a period of six or seven weeks, I honestly believe that the plants would have been damaged much more if started on the higher doses right off the bat. I DID NOT include Drosera in the experiment and I also do not feed them that often. In the past I have introduced pebble sized pieces of fertilizer 20-20-20 right in the pitchers of adult Sarr. Purpurea without ill effect. I never feed the plants by spray, I have but that seems to benefit the moss (not sphagnum) more, but with an eyedropper. The amount being placed on/in a plant can be easily controlled. Dave Evans ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 22:16:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP digest 240 Peter - you can spray your plants with rubbing alcohol - it won't hurt them. Spray down in the cacks between growing leaves. Use Q-tips in hard-to-reach nooks and crannies. For insecticides, you can use X-Clude and Knoxx-Out. These are microencapsulated Pyrithrium and Diazanon, respectively, and are the best versions for human and plant health. Cheers, Phil ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 08:47:09 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: low energy lamps > > > > Peter, > > > On a different note, I've built a terrarium fitted with those > > low-energy fluorescent bulbs that are being marketed as replacements > > for regular incandescent bulbs - ( 23W bulbs producing 1500 lumen, ) > >.. > > Anyone else ever tried these? Yes, I am using them too. I grow Utrics under them and some VFTs. They are doing well, e.g. what concerns growing. However, hardly any of them (not even U.sandersonii) really likes to blossom under this light. I just added a 40 W light bulb (some special Neodym something / made in Finland). I report if this triggers flowers. I jsut forgot: P.emarginata and U.monanthos in contrast like this light. P.emarginata is now continously blossoming since last year's summer! (Thanks to Jan and his kind donation. It fills now a 15 cm pot! It also (if I bother to pollinate) gives very fertile seeds. ANybody interested ?) I also noticed that there are different brands sold, e.g. coldwhite/ warmwhite. Earlier (or other brands) are not labelled with respect of the type of light. > > I have a few of these at short distance above my plants. > D.'s are developing nice red leaves as they would do under sunlight. > Don't worry about heat radiation from the lamps, there's hardly any. > (Think of a lamp working temperature of 40-60 centigrades.) > > Regards, Wim. > > > ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- > (wim@morgana.gds.nl) > > > -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 08:48:58 +0200 (EET) Subject: Aldrovanda Hi, I would like to hear about experiences growing Aldrovanda. Is there anybody who grows them more or less successfully ? ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: PAULBOURBIN@delphi.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 01:57:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: scale insects I have used Orthene soluable powder, mixed with water according to manufacturer's instructions, with great success on my Nepenthes. Two or three sprayings about two weeks apart will clear up the problem. Paul Bourbin paulbourbin@delphi.com ################### From: tomas polivka Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 08:40:57 MET Subject: Re: Pygmy sundews Hi Chris, I observed the same during the lack of light. Tomas ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 03:01 EST Subject: Re: scale insects > I've got an infestation of scale insects on my Nepenthes X > 'coccinea', and despite picking them off by hand several times they > keep returning. Anyone know if it's safe to use an emulsion or meths > on Neps or should I just carry on trying to manually remove them? I > just hope they don't spread to my other plants... > > On a different note, I've built a terrarium fitted with those > low-energy fluorescent bulbs that are being marketed as replacements > for regular incandescent bulbs - ( 23W bulbs producing 1500 lumen, ) > and I'm trying it out with some surplus Drosera and Dionaea ( ~6000 > lux on a 16 hour cycle. ) I'll post a progress report in a few weeks / > months when the plants have adjusted - I don't know what the spectrum is > like, but any deficiencies should show up by then. They're a hell of > a lot cheaper than grow bulbs so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Anyone > else ever tried these? > > Happy growing, > > Peter > > Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | "It is the business of the > Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | future to be dangerous..." Scale: I have use a product (not sure of the name) with Di-Siston 1% systemic poison as the main ingredient on Nepenthes. You're to mix it into the soil, a possible problem with orcid mix, but it might work the same if placed right into a pitcher or two. The stuff is mostly plastic (as explained to me) and I have literally poored it onto D. capensis without harm. Lower energy flourescents: I use these almost exclusively all my CP's, and they work great. They seem to be a bit high in the yellows so I try to work in a bulb with a more purple spectrum so the plants look cooler but they don't need it. Dave Evans ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:08:40 +0100 (CET) Subject: big bladders >And BTW, does anyone have a spare clump of U. humboldtii for >trade? The University I'm volunteering at wants some for >demonstration in their biology classes (because this species >presumably has the largest bladders). Thanks, >Best wishes, >Ch'ien Lee >cclee@cats.ucsc.edu U. vulgaris has almost as big bladders (up to 5 mm) as U. humboldtii, and they're easier to show them because it's aquatic. Unfortunately for you, I have neither U.humboldtii nor U. vulgaris for you. Good luck, Martin Zevenbergen Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 11:35:35 +0100 Subject: RE: var., ssp., forma. Michael, John, Barry, Some further "obscure taxonomic quibbles". >In the taxonomic hierarchy, subspecies is a higher level than variety, >however these two categories have NOT been used consistently by >botanists. For practical purposes you can usually consider var. to be >synonomous to ssp. although the two should not be used >interchangeably. Both descriptors refer to morphological variation >usually involving several charactors and having a geographical basis. There is no standard definition of subsp., var., and f., but still they should *not* be considered synonymous. At least these ranks are different in inclusivity: subspp. may include several vars. or ff., vars. may include several ff., but not the other way round. In order to fill these cathegories with some meaning, one (the one I am folowing) concept is to base subspecific distinction on geographic disjunction (as John L. has pointed out already), i.e. subspp. are taxa "on the way to" allopatric speciation (allopatric taxa). Vars. are sympatric taxa in this concept differring in ecological respects (preference for alkaline vs. acid soil, highland vs. lowland populations, different pollinators, etc.). However, it is still a matter of +/- subjective decision which differences should be *sufficient* for distinction as subspp. and vars.. >The category form is used to describe variation which does not have a >geographical basis, and which is usually sporadic in a population.(...) >>However, the use of >form is often discouraged, except for extremely unusual variants, or forms >which occur in economically important plant groups. As Barry has pointed >out, variation can be described in other ways than formal designation of >forms. Yes. I also think ff. are not significant in terms of taxonomic distinction (which should IMHO reflect solely results or trends of speciation, i.e. taxa being species or parts thereof which might have the potential to become species eventually). >(I am not sure about the creation of autonyms when forms are designated). It is (formally) the same as with subspp. and vars.. The argument among splitters, lumpers, infraspecialists &al. is fed by the delicate nature of the problem considered, i.e. the (human=futile & subjective) attempt to draw clear cut borderlines in a more or less continuous spectrum. Quite naturally, nomenclature can only be as stable as the objects named. Some species are not exceedingly stable. It is these which frequently abound with rejected, recombined, and revised synonyms. No rules or methods can change this situation. It is rather the task of the scientist to collect the existing opinions of his/her colleagues, to add own knowledge and results, and to decide ("H.sapiens"...) which concept to follow. It cannot be the goal of taxonomy (or science in general) to generate a conclusive world formula, but rather to propose and modify theories which eventually converge with reality by ongoing discussion. Kind regards Jan ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 08:17:47 EST Subject: Re: Botanical names (Sorry Long) John: Thanks a lot for your clarification of the splitting of species names. I certainly agree with your final comment about God not drawing species or genera lines. Professionally, I'm in information retrieval, and I am constantly making the same point to my students vis-a-vis various schemes for classifying text and images. Bob korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: "Robert L. Briggs" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 07:14:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: Light Hi guys, excuse my ignorance but does anyone have the conversion chart for Lumin to Footcandles I don't seem to be able to find one in my little town. ============================= Robert L. Briggs rbriggs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ============================= ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 08:27:14 EST Subject: RE: var., ssp., forma. Michael: I took John's comment on God not creating species not to imply that there are no clear differences between, say, a Drosera and a VFT, but rather that the boundary lines between closely related species are very fuzzy, and that it is people who feel that they 'must' nail those boundary lines down tightly. Bob korfhage ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 07:21:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: low energy lamps > light. P.emarginata is now continously blossoming since last year's > summer! (Thanks to Jan and his kind donation. It fills now a 15 cm > pot! It also (if I bother to pollinate) gives very fertile seeds. ANybody > interested ?) If I'm not being too forward, what are you asking in exchange for the seeds? I would be extremely interested, particulary since I have heard so little about P. emarginata, but I'm very drawn towards easy species of any plants. --CW ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 07:26:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: big bladders > U. vulgaris has almost as big bladders (up to 5 mm) as U. humboldtii, and > they're easier to show them because it's aquatic. Unfortunately for you, I I thought _U. humboldtii_ was an aquatic, although there seems to be some confusion. I've heard that _U. humboldtii_ grows in the pitcher of Brocchinia reducta, although the California Carnivores growing guide describes it as an Australian native. ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 08:41:56 EST Subject: RE: var., ssp., forma. Ah! Jan's comments on the task of the scientist "...to collect the existing opinions of his/her colleagues, to add own knowledge and results, and to decide..." is very interesting! I'm used to "hard" sciences (e.g., math, chemistry, physics) where the 'objects' are stable enough that the matter of personal opinion in classification rarely enters the picture. I've also become involved through my professional work with the "soft" sciences, such as psychology, where it seems that personal opinion and individual ideas and accomplishments often rank far above clear-cut, objective facts. Now it seems that biology lies somewhere in between, as I interpret Jan's remark. Bob korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 09:23:39 -0500 Subject: Re: scale insects > I've got an infestation of scale insects on my Nepenthes X > 'coccinea', and despite picking them off by hand several times they > keep returning. Anyone know if it's safe to use an emulsion or meths > on Neps or should I just carry on trying to manually remove them? I > just hope they don't spread to my other plants... > > On a different note, I've built a terrarium fitted with those > low-energy fluorescent bulbs that are being marketed as replacements > for regular incandescent bulbs - ( 23W bulbs producing 1500 lumen, ) > and I'm trying it out with some surplus Drosera and Dionaea ( ~6000 > lux on a 16 hour cycle. ) I'll post a progress report in a few weeks / > months when the plants have adjusted - I don't know what the spectrum is > like, but any deficiencies should show up by then. They're a hell of > a lot cheaper than grow bulbs so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Anyone > else ever tried these? > > Happy growing, > > Peter As for scale, I would like to hear some good answers too, I have kept it under control but never completely eradicated it. As for those 23W lights (lite lights!) I have a terrarium I set up using one of those round circle lights (used to use 23W now uses 32W). I have had the same S. psittacina in it for about 9 years. However, I am not generally happy with it, while the plants live, the last few years they have not flowered, and they are not really gaining any size. ALthough I don't know for sure, I think the early lights had better light output than they do now. Tom in Florida, on a cold day with a high only in the 50s ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 11:03:33 -0800 Subject: Re: Light (fwd) I'm forwarding the following for Kevin Reiling, whose original message got inadvertantly sent to Carolyn Phelan (CP) in HP UK. For UK members, please be careful with replying to CP mailing list mail. There is a bug in HP's mailer so that all CP mail to the UK gets the wrong "Reply-To:" header. If it says "CP@hplb.hpl.hp.com", please change it to "CP@opus.hpl.hp.com" before replying. We are wearing thin on Carolyn's good graces. -- Thanks! -Rick Walker --------------------- forwarded letter --------------- Hope this helps, 1 foot candle (lumen ft-2)0 = 10.764 lux (lumen m-2) However, these are photometric measurements based on energy arriving at the plant and valid only for a given source (because of different output spectra) blue light has more energy than red. Photosynthesis however works on the number of photons arriving (9used at the red energy level) used at the red energy level), to make most sense light measurements for plants should be of the Photosynthetically active radiation (PAR) 400-700 nm, and measured in u mols photons m-2 s-1, a radiometric unit. radiometric and photometric are not directly convertable full sun approx 95 000 lux only 42% of which is PAR mercury vapour (400 watts) approx 24 000 lux, 52% PAR basically different spectral outputs mean comparisons between sources are very approximate unless using a radiometric PAR measurement. ps I know spectra are important for flower induction, dormancy etc, but a photometric measurement is still of little use. I apologise for the minilecture but it may be useful to someone, even if only to allow useful investigation of your next lighting purchase. Best wishes, Dr Kevin Reiling, a silent participant to the list until now ################### From: K2P@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 14:28:52 -0500 Subject: Superthrive Robert in Ottowa I have used Superthrive for several years on orchids and found it very good. So far I do not believe that Powerthrive is available in the States. Is it made by the same company? Fred from Long Island ################### From: "Mr John Peacock" Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 21:02:36 +0000 Subject: Introduction Hi. My name is John Peacock and I live at Banstead, Surrey UK, ten miles south of London. I am very much a "jack of all trades master of none" type gardener. In my lifetime (of some forty-odd years) I have held fairly large collections of both cacti and alpines and at present my time is devoted to CPs, ferns, asymbiotic germination of temperate terrestrial orchids (problems) and generally anything unusual. In the past my major motivation has always been in the challenge of propagation especially from seed (I am inherently too mean to buy plants and am a reformed cutting thief!!). In terms of CPs I currently grow them in three separate ways: i) In a purpose-built sphagnum bog garden in a frost free greenhouse. Here I am moderately successful in growing various species of Sarracenia, Drosera and Utrics as well as Cephalotus but not Pinguics.. Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly! ii) In variously constructed beds and ponds in the open garden (winter frosts to ~ -5 C) where Sarracenia, including S.psittacina and hardy Drosera thrive to varying degrees of success. Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly! iii) Recently I have created a series of purpose-built trough gardens made of hypertufa. Again Sarracenia and hardy Drosera species grow well! Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly. As you can gather I have one small problem! D.c. even flowers profusely outside (stems up to 9 inches) but pitchers are always small. Is it because I cannot provide it with a cool root run in the summer? Any other suggestions? Finally I think the list is an excellent idea even though I have only been on for a few days Happy and successful growing and best wishes to all John Peacock (john_p@icr.ac.uk) ----- End forwarded message ################### From: Kathleen M. Heldreth - Biologist Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 16:01:28 EST Subject: Re: Light (fwd) > Hope this helps, > > 1 foot candle (lumen ft-2)0 = 10.764 lux (lumen m-2) How do all of these light measurements equate to microEinsteins? I am using a Licor light sensor, units are in microEinsteins. TIA, Kathleen Heldreth ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 13:40:31 -0800 Subject: RE: var., ssp., forma. You wrote: > >Michael: I took John's comment on God not creating species not to imply that >there are no clear differences between, say, a Drosera and a VFT, but rather> >SNIP< Exactly: The Creator of the Universe didn't create species or genera or any other grouping He created an evolving, changing Universe populated by individual organisms, all related; some more closely than others. -- ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 19:00 EST Subject: Works of God > >Michael: I took John's comment on God not creating species not to > imply that > >there are no clear differences between, say, a Drosera and a VFT, but > rather> >SNIP< > > Exactly: The Creator of the Universe didn't create species or genera or > any other grouping He created an evolving, changing Universe populated > by individual organisms, all related; some more closely than others. I've yet to see any plant grower who would fill their collection with labels that all read "individual organism"! :-) But as for God, I've not met him, and if he's out there I'll let him speak for himself! Michael ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 19:28:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: big bladders > > > > U. vulgaris has almost as big bladders (up to 5 mm) as U. > > humboldtii, and they're easier to show them because it's aquatic. > > Unfortunately for you, I > > > I thought _U. humboldtii_ was an aquatic, although there seems to be > some confusion. I've heard that _U. humboldtii_ grows in the pitcher > of Brocchinia reducta, although the California Carnivores growing > guide describes it as an Australian native. Christopher, U. humboldtii is a semi-aquatic. It grows aquatically in the liquid trapped by certain Brochiniae (Taylor mentions three), and it also grows as terrestrial. I would dispute the easyness of U. vulgaris since with U. humboldtii you don't have to worry about algae. But I guess each has his/her own opinion and methods of growing. Christoph ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 17:25:11 -0800 Subject: Re: Works of God You wrote: >I've yet to see any plant grower who would fill their collection with >labels that all read "individual organism"! :-) > >But as for God, I've not met him, and if he's out there I'll let him >speak for himself! OK Michael, you win...Count me out of this thread lest I say anything else that might offend someone. ..Wouldn't want to start a flame war. 0:-) John -- ################### From: kirk martin Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:15:20 PST Subject: D. platypoda I planted D. platypoda seeds last January 94 and was rewarded with numerous sprouts around July (the same thing happened with D. peltata green) These little g uys grew to about 3-5 cm and crashed. They are in a eastern exposure in a mille d peat mix (which has somewhat solidified over time). Not to be discouraged I k ept this same tray damp and found that they resprouted (both trays) the end of November. They have continued to grow but appear that they have stopped and a f ew have died off again. I'd really like to keep this D. platypoda alive as it's a fantastic plant. Any suggestions. I have tried repotting them to a looser peat and sand perlite mixture 1:1:1 without success. Higher light levels under a flourescent hadn't helped either. Oh well I guess I could send a few bucks to Mr. Lowrie if all else fails.... Also, I've lost a few drosera binata and capensis (embarrassing) the leaves just get smaller and suddenly the whole plant dries up. Is that a rot? I had decreased my watering but possibly not enough? Thanks Kirk Martin ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 14:52:45 +0930 Subject: D. platypoda -Reply Kirk, These are tuberous species and so require a summer dormancy. If I am not mistaken your summer is about July. At this time the plants will die back and you should remove them from the water and let them dry out completely. Begin to water them in Autumn and they should re-emerge from their tubers. If you keep them wet over summer the tubers will rot. Stick to an open compost 50:50 peat:sand does the job. Cheers Terry ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 22:56:36 -0700 Subject: Utrics and fertilizer and off track For fertilizing my plants, I use label strength miracid. It is applied as a foliar spray once/week to my tuberous _Drosera_, once/month to my Mexican Pings, and a few times/year to my Southeastern USA Pings. For Utrics with large bladders, you're making life hard for yourself looking for _U.humboldtii_ because this plant is considered very desireable to CPers and would be hard to obtain. I suggest you go with _U.longifolia_ which has quite respectable bladders and grows very quickly. You can let stolons grow into soil-free water and then obtain very nice views of the bladders. It is a vigorous grower and will tend to do this anyway out of the bottom of the pot! Regarding plant names, I agree completely with Rick's comment on how cultivars cannot be propagated by seed. Even the selfing of a cultivar, even if the cultivar is a pure species, is not genetically identical to the cultivar. Mass production of cultivars is best done by tissue culture or lots and lots of leaf cuttings (if possible). >Ah! Jan's comments on the task of the scientist "...to collect the existing >opinions of his/her colleagues, to add own knowledge and results, and to >decide..." is very interesting! I'm used to "hard" sciences (e.g., math, >chemistry, physics) where the 'objects' are stable enough that the matter of >personal opinion in classification rarely enters the picture. I've also Funny! I'm in astronomy (a hard science which is really just all the other sciences lumped together and applied towards studying the universe) and I think personal opinion has a great deal to do with it! I took a course on radio astrophysics taught by an astrophysicist who insisted on detailing some dreadful theory that was largely discounted long ago (it involved clusters of black holes). So why did we spend weeks on said theory? If you guessed the instructor was the originator, you're right! Just one example. Tesla vs. Edison, anyone? >How do all of these light measurements equate to microEinsteins? I am >using a Licor light sensor, units are in microEinsteins. TIA, Kathleen >Heldreth Micro-einsteins? Are you kidding? I've never heard of this unit! And I thought *I* was a micro-einstein! Guess I've been relegated to femto-einstein. ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:39:09 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: low energy lamps > > > light. P.emarginata is now continously blossoming since last year's > > summer! (Thanks to Jan and his kind donation. It fills now a 15 cm > > pot! It also (if I bother to pollinate) gives very fertile seeds. ANybody > > interested ?) > > If I'm not being too forward, what are you asking in exchange for the > seeds? I would be extremely interested, particulary since I have > heard so little about P. emarginata, but I'm very drawn towards > easy species of any plants. --CW > Please wait a little. I pollinated 8 flowers yesterday. If you have I am interested in Utricularia. But if you do not, do not bother, either. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:26:03 +0000 Subject: Re: Dormancy Help > ... I also plan > on purchasing more sarracenia this spring. What can I do to keep these > plants dormant in the winter? All I have is a cool basement (40-50 > degrees F) and won't have room in a refridgerator for all the ones I > want. I would have thought the basement would be fine. My Sarracenia are in a greenhouse that maintains 40-50F in Winter and they do fine. I guess your basement would be dark, but I can't see the plants minding too much as they are not in growth. I recommend growing a few from seed too - great fun and saves paying someone else to do it for you. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Tue, 31 Jan 1995 20:21:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Feeding CP's > I would be interested to know how other people are feeding their CPs. Personally, I don't feed my CPs anything whatsoever, apart from the insects that they catch. This includes Drosera, Sarracenia, Darlingtonia, Cephalotus etc. An exception is some Pinguicula spp. which I grow in more nutritious soil and feed occasionally. I don't grow Nepenthes, which I read might benefit from feeding. I think there is a temptation to want to feed CPs because one feeds other plants. They grow perfectly well without. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:19:37 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: big bladders On Tue, 31 Jan 1995, Christopher Waldrop wrote: > > U. vulgaris has almost as big bladders (up to 5 mm) as U. > > humboldtii, and they're easier to show them because it's aquatic. > > Unfortunately for you, I > > > I thought _U. humboldtii_ was an aquatic, although there seems to be > some confusion. I've heard that _U. humboldtii_ grows in the pitcher > of Brocchinia reducta, although the California Carnivores growing > guide describes it as an Australian native. > Utricularia humboldtii is no Australian native, it occurs in the Guyana-highland shield in Venezuela. It is really growing in the leaf-axils of the huge Broccinia tatei (not B. reducta), and in very, very rare cases you can find it in nature also in Heliamphora pitchers :-). It is very funny, because you can find populations of it, which are just growing in Broccinia (e.g. at Cerro Duida) where you never (!) will find it growing in soil and other populations (e.g. at the foot of Roraima), where the same species is growing only in swampy soil, here you cannot find it in Broccinia. Such populations differ slightly in it's appearance; you can grow it both in soil (you do not need a Broccinia, to grow it :-) ). The bladders of it are realy enormous, at least 5-6 mm in diameter; you can also find large bladders in U. tricolor, which is easier to grow then U. humboldtii. Bye Joe N. ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:50:33 +0200 (EET) Subject: Light tubes > > Lower energy flourescents: I use these almost exclusively all my > CP's, and they work great. They seem to be a bit high in the > yellows so I try to work in a bulb with a more purple spectrum > so the plants look cooler but they don't need it. > > Dave Evans > Hi, Uwe told me that he mixes tubes (mind: normal tubes not growlux etc.) of different types (e.g. coldwhite and warmwhite). He prefers to mix color codes (25,20,19) with (33,32,30). He says he is quite successful. ..Michael P.S.: I have not seen yet any energy saving lamps (tubes with bulb socket E27) sold with different color codes. -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:55:26 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Light tubes On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Michael Hasemann wrote: > > > Hi, > > Uwe told me that he mixes tubes (mind: normal tubes not growlux etc.) > of different types (e.g. coldwhite and warmwhite). > > He prefers to mix color codes (25,20,19) with (33,32,30). He > says he is quite successful. > > ..Michael > > P.S.: I have not seen yet any energy saving lamps (tubes with bulb > socket E27) sold with different color codes. > -- > Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation > | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland > | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 > jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ > I think, the easiest and cheapest way to grow CP's under lights are the simple Industrial cold-white tubes, you do not need the expensive Growlux-lights; very bad experience I had with the blue-red 'fluora'-plant-lights! Bye Joe N. ################### From: "Kneen, John X2820" Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 11:18:00 PST Subject: Intro Hi I'm new to the group and thought I'd introduce myself. My name is John Kneen & I live in Johannesburg, South Africa. I am in the aeronautics industry where I function as a software engineer-cum- physicist. I have kept CP's for about two years and currently have success with the following: D. binata, D. capensis, D. spatulata, D. burmannii U. sandersonii S. flava, S. leucophylla, S. minor, S. purpurea N. alata, N. ventricosa, N. x wrigleyana, N. x rokko good 'ol Dionaea muscipula Joburg's climate is not particularly damp, yet my Nepenthes seem to behave themselves - although not with a large profussion of pitchers. I am, however, struggling with an attack of Mealy bugs, esp. on my Sarracenia - where the bugs seem to be particularly interested in the bases of the plants. I have found an aerosol designed for orchids and ferns that does the job, but the bugs just come back. What other approaches can I use? What about placing other plants nearby that may repel Mealy bugs (eg Marigolds)? Are systemic insecticides safe for CPs? Any help would be appreciated. John ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 10:34:56 +200 Subject: Bladder sizes (no, not yours!) Dear CPhiles, I always seem to be joining discussions when the subject has just about been exhausted - perhaps that has something to do with time zones etc.? Two Utricularias which have really large bladders as well are U. prehensilis (up to 4mm) and U. dichotoma (up to 6mm). The size of the bladders seems to increase if the plants are grown in a position (virtually submerged) such that the stolons and attached bladders can grow out into the surrounding water (This is also a good method of separating species that may be growing together in the same container). I hope this is of some use to someone. Cheers for now. Regards Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:27:42 +0200 (EET) Subject: Flavours of Photons Hi, I just resent an earlier posting by Barry regarding light sources... Hope that's ok and of interest. ..Michael -- Michael Hasemann | Technical Research Centre of Finland - Automation | Kaitovayla 1, P.O. Box 13023, 90571 Oulu, Finland | Fax: +358 81 5512320 Tel: +358 81 5512239 jmh@tko.vtt.fi <-email-------------www-> http://www.kau.vtt.fi/~jmh/ ################### From: sctkr@cr41.staffs.ac.uk Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:26:52 +0100 Subject: microeinstein reply Regarding your query, microeinsteins are directly equivalent to u moles m-2 s-1 my friend in physics assure me microeinsteins are "inappropriate units" whatever that means, some SI problem i think, 20 uE mol = 20 u mol Best wishes Dr Kevin Reiling, who may one day actually grow some CP properly, rather than A VFT on the windowsill ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 10:42:24 +0100 Subject: hard science Dear scientists, (...) >>decide..." is very interesting! I'm used to "hard" sciences (e.g., math, >>chemistry, physics) where the 'objects' are stable enough that the matter of >>personal opinion in classification rarely enters the picture. (...) >Tesla vs. Edison, anyone? Yes! And how then about the progression NEWTON-EINSTEIN-HEISENBERG (physics becoming softer and softer), complex numbers, non-Euklidean geometry, chaos theory, &c.? I fear "hard sciences" with "stable" objects is an obsolete concept superseded by better hypotheses... Kind regards Jan ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 04:41 EST Subject: Re: Re: Light tubes > From: Joachim Nerz > I think, the easiest and cheapest way to grow CP's under lights are the > simple Industrial cold-white tubes, you do not need the expensive > Growlux-lights; very bad experience I had with the blue-red > 'fluora'-plant-lights! > > Bye > Joe N. Could you please elaborate on your very bad experience? I am thinking (huh-oh) of building a grow area using some of GE's 33 watt Sho & Gro Bright Stik bulbs; just to try something new. I took a horticultural class last year and we were taught that plants mostly use the reds and blues of the spectrum with near complete disregard for greens and yellows. Is this on the money? If true wouldn't a bulb that produces more reds and blues be more cost effective at least a far as electrical consumption is concerned (more of the electricity is in effect used by the plants)? Thanks, Dave Evans ################### From: John Taylor Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 22:22:59 +1100 Subject: Re: Re: Big Bladders To: Multiple recipients of list >For Utrics with large bladders, you're making life hard for yourself looking >for _U.humboldtii_ because this plant is considered very desireable to CPers >and would be hard to obtain. I suggest you go with _U.longifolia_ which has >quite respectable bladders and grows very quickly. You can let stolons grow >into soil-free water and then obtain very nice views of the bladders. It is >a vigorous grower and will tend to do this anyway out of the bottom of the >pot! I've also noticed that U. dichotoma will produce much larger bladders than "normal" from the stolons growing out of the bottom of my pots (just in the water tray - no soil). These larger bladders are at least a few millimetres across. Another terrestrial is U. praelonga which has largish bladders (2 or more mm across). I find this plant quite undemanding to grow. As a bonus, it has large, attractive yellow flowers. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.edu | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:32:36 +200 Subject: Intro -Reply Dear John, It's nice to hear from somebody else in sub-Saharan Africa! There seem to be quite a few CP lovers in South Africa but very few seem to be on the net. May I be the first to welcome you to the CP group and may I suggest you contact me via private e-mail so I can tell you more about our local CP operation without having to bore the rest of the net to death! Cheers for now. Regards Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 07:12:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Want Nepenthes pollen In several weeks I will have a very lonely N. ventricosa. It is a first time flower so I don't know if it is male or female. Does anyone know if the differences can be distinguished before it flowers? - or, do I have to wait? And in preparation, since I feel that there are already many N. ventricosas, will anyone have any interesting male Nepenthes in bloom in the next few weeks or now? I would like to make an interesting hybrid. Christoph ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 13:54:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: RHS colour chart The RHS colour chart is published by the Royal Horticultural Society in London in association with the Flower Council of Holland. and I think you can get it at the RHS, but I don't have an adress of them (perhaps somebody from the UK can give?). You can also get it at the Flower Council of Holland, the adress is: Flower Council of Holland Schipholweg 1 2316 XB Leiden The Netherlands Good luck, Martin Zevenbergen ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 14:17:18 +0100 Subject: Re: Intro -Reply Dear John & Rogan, Welcome, John, to the virtual cp family. >(...) without having to bore the rest of the net to death! No, please continue to "bore" the rest of the net! At least I find it rather amusing (& not at all boring) to chat with countrymen of so many Droserae & Utriculariae... Kind regards from (wet but still rather dull) Germany Jan ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 14:06:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: D. hamiltonii flower induction Is there anybody who has experience in getting D.hamiltonii flowers? I read in Slack's book that it needs a cold period to induce flower formation. How long has this period to be? A few nights in the fridge will do? I have two D. hamitonii plants for three years now, and there was never any sign of flower formation. I want some flowers to get some seed (and to see the flowers of course, they have to be really big). Martin Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 08:19 EST Subject: RE: flavors of photons > Hi, > > I just resent an earlier posting by Barry regarding light sources... > Hope that's ok and of interest. Resentment is quite ok! We all love a good flame war! (Not!) :-) Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 08:28 EST Subject: More Galapagos (NOT CP) This was e-mailed to me, and although I cannot personally vouch for this information, I thought it worthwile to pass along. > GALAPAGOS CRISIS: > > SCIENTIFIC PERSONNEL AND ENDANGERED ANIMALS HELD HOSTAGE > > CHARLES DARWIN RESEARCH STATION AND GALAPAGOS NATIONAL > PARK SERVICE HELD HOSTAGE BY ARMED FISHERMAN > > -News from Conservation Network International. January 31, 1995 > > Masked fisherman (calling themselves Pepineros/or sea cucumber > collectors) armed with clubs and machetes, seized control of the > properties of the Charles Darwin Research Station and Galapagos National > Park Service boat, on Tuesday, January 3, 1995, in the community of > Puerto Ayora, Galapagos. The launch for the CDRS was sunk and access > to/from the airport was cut off by the vindictive pepineros. The seizure > lasted three days. > > CDRS and Park personnel were confined to buildings. Those who live > within the Park and Station campuses were rarely allowed to leave. In > effect the two institutions, their staffs, the facilities and the > breeding groups of giant tortoises and land iguanas were held hostage in > a World Heritage Site. Apart from a broken arm and an unexploded bomb in > a Park Service, the level of violence has not yet attracted the attention > of the international press. However, those who realize what is at stake > recognize that if the Ecuadorian government continues to submit to the > black market demands of these fisherman, the world will lose the largest > virgin island (Fernandina) in the world, as well as the last significant > population of Hammerhead sharks. > > In recent months, Conservation Network International (CNI) has confirmed: > > -$1billion Sucres (~$40 million US) were transferred thru the two > Galapagos banks. One fisherman cashed a US$ 50,000 check. > -Uncontrolled fishing boats are harvesting everything marketable from > the sea floor. The fisherman continue to cut mangroves for fuel to > boil their catch and there are floating brothels for entertainment. > -Fishing boats carrying chickens, dogs, and inevitably rats and mice are > pillaging the coasts of western Isabela and Fernandina Islands. > -An "experimental" sea cucumber fishery and a shark fishing industry > were endorsed by the government on June 23, 1994. A limit of 550,000 > sea cucumbers was set by the authorities. No means of regulation was > established and an estimated 6 - 10 million were taken before the > government finally tried to stop the "experiment". > -The reason for the violence and hostage situation is that the > fisherman are demanding the reopening of the sea cucumber fishery. > > The crisis has now entered a dramatic level of exploitation while the > current border dispute between Peru and Ecuador is attracting attention > away from the crisis in the Galapagos. > > Due to the political and socio-economic pressure, The Darwin Foundation > has been unable to forcefully denounce and combat the environmental > travesty that has developed. Conservation Network International, Inc. was > formed as a non-profit organization in July, 1994, to oppose a series of > commercial fisheries in the Galapagos. > > WHAT YOU CAN DO: > > 1. Write a letter to the President of Ecuador > > Pres. Sixto Duran Ballen > Garcia Moreno 1043 > Quito, Ecuador > > With copies to: > > Lic. Armando Espinel > Ministerior de Informacion y Tourismo > Quito, Ecuador > > Ab. Gustavo Gonzales > Subsecretario de Pesca > Guayaquil, Ecuador > > Lic. Jorge Barba > Director INEFAN > Quito, Ecuador > > Sr. Director > Diario EL COMERCIO > Quito, Ecuador > > Sr. Director > Diario EL UNIVERSO > Guayaquil, Ecuador > > Lic. Arturo Izurieta Valery > Intendente del Servicio Parque Nacional Galapagos > Puerto Ayora > Islas Galapagos > Ecuador > > 2. Call your travel agent and any journalists who might be interested in > this issue and feel free to refer them to Conservation Network > International. > > 3. Support the efforts of Conservation Network International to expand > our publicity campaign and stop the exportation of shark fins and sea > cucumbers from the Galapagos. > > Conservation Network International will continue to support the local > Galapagos naturalists who are now risking their lives to stop the > exploitation. CNI has no employees and all contributions are invested > directly for the cause. Our intentions are to stop the exploitation of > all marine resources from the Galapagos and do what ever is necessary to > insure the long term preservation of this world heritage site and the > last significant population of Hammerhead sharks. > > Conservation Network International, Inc. > Jack Grove, President > 146 N. Sunrise Drive > Tavernier, Florida 33070 > Tel/Fax 305-852-6004 > > PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO THOSE WHO MAY BE INTERESTED!! > ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 08:33:45 EST Subject: Re: hard science Hopefully, even the "hard" sciences continue to evolve in their concepts, theories, and so forth. But somehow, I've never heard anyone debate whether a given number is a complex number or not, or the definition of Euclidean geometry, or what qualifies as a sucrose molecule. Yes, personalities do enter the picture, particularly (as someone mentioned) in how material is taught and presented to the scientific public. Yes, new theories are roundly debated, and properly so! Perhaps I'm just a bit too sensitized by being in an environment where half of the faculty are concerned about how a given system works, or which process to use to solve a specific problem, and the other half of the faculty are far more concerned about who said what with respect to a given concept. Bob korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: "Michael Hasemann" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 15:42:25 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: flavors of photons > > > Hi, > > > > I just resent an earlier posting by Barry regarding light sources... > > Hope that's ok and of interest. > > Resentment is quite ok! We all love a good flame war! (Not!) :-) Yeah, but it must be a good one. So, who was the guy that sold these ... and is not donating 25% of the sales price to the re-naturalisation project "Save the Lost Worlds" in central Celebes ? ..Michael > > Michael > ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 09:12 EST Subject: Galapagos crisis on TV (NOT CP) I have heard that the crisis at Darwin Station will be covered on the TV program "Day One", thursday night, here in the US. Michael ################### From: "Mr John Peacock" Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 14:26:39 +0000 Subject: Introduction Hi. My name is John Peacock and I live at Banstead, Surrey UK, ten miles south of London. I am very much a "jack of all trades master of none" type gardener. In my lifetime (of some forty-odd years) I have held fairly large collections of both cacti and alpines and at present my time is devoted to CPs, ferns, asymbiotic germination of temperate terrestrial orchids (problems) and generally anything unusual. In the past my major motivation has always been in the challenge of propagation especially from seed (I am inherently too mean to buy plants and am a reformed cutting thief!!). In terms of CPs I currently grow them in three separate ways: i) In a purpose-built sphagnum bog garden in a frost free greenhouse. Here I am moderately successful in growing various species of Sarracenia, Drosera and Utrics as well as Cephalotus but not Pinguics.. Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly! ii) In variously constructed beds and ponds in the open garden (winter frosts to ~ -5 C) where Sarracenia, including S.psittacina and hardy Drosera thrive to varying degrees of success. Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly! iii) Recently I have created a series of purpose-built trough gardens made of hypertufa. Again Sarracenia and hardy Drosera species grow well! Darlingtonia achieves the massive height of at least three inches under these conditions but grows rampantly. As you can gather I have one small problem! D.c. even flowers profusely outside (stems up to 9 inches) but pitchers are always small. Is it because I cannot provide it with a cool root run in the summer? Any other suggestions? Finally I think the list is an excellent idea even though I have only been on for a few days Happy and successful growing and best wishes to all John Peacock (john_p@icr.ac.uk) ----- End forwarded message ----- End forwarded message ################### From: Robert St-Jean Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 10:39:54 -0500 Subject: Superthrive -Reply >>> 01/31/95 02:33pm >>> Robert in Ottawa I have used Superthrive for several years on orchids and found it very good. So far I do not believe that Powerthrive is available in the States. Is it made by the same company? Fred from Long Island Powerthrive is a growth and bloom enhancer that contains vitamin B1 . It is made by Garden Friendly Products of Vancouver, British Columbia. I don't believe it is available in the U.S.A. Cheers, Rob ################### From: tomas polivka Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 15:08:02 MET Subject: Re: D. hamiltonii flower induction I have been growing D. hamiltonii for three years, but I have never seen its flowers. I have read the Slack's book, too,and I have tried to grow D. hamiltonii at approx. 10C during the winter, but no flowers were created in summer. Tomas ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 11:47:19 EST Subject: Re: Introduction Why have we received three copies of the introduction from John Peacock -- the original and two 'forwarded' messages? ################### From: hutchisonb@osprey.nwrc.gov Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 11:00:23 cst Subject: Workshops offered PROPOSED 1995 TRAINING WORKSHOPS NATIONAL BIOLOGICAL SERVICE & U. S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY at the SOUTHERN SCIENCE CENTER IN COOPERATION WITH UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHWESTERN LOUISIANA LAFAYETTE, LOUISIANA JANUARY 10-12 Introduction to SAS for Natural Resources (Southern Science Center) FEBRUARY 9 Introduction to Field Identification of Wetland Forest Trees (Wharton Hall, USL) MARCH 7-9 Advanced Wetland Photo-Interpretation (Wharton Hall, USL) APRIL 5-7 Introduction to FGDC's Metadata Standards (Southern Science Center) MAY 16-17 Introduction to the National Wetland Inventory Classification System (Wharton Hall, USL) JUNE 13-15 Integrating Remote Sensing & GIS for Natural Resource Management (Wharton Hall, USL) JULY 18-20 Introduction to GPS for Natural Resource Assessment & Survey (Wharton Hall, USL) AUGUST 8-10 Introduction to GIS (ARC/INFO) for Natural Resources (Southern Science Center) AUGUST 22-24 Introduction to Wetland Image Processing & Classification (Wharton Hall, USL) SEPTEMBER 19-21 Introduction to FGDC's Metadata Standards (Southern Science Center) OCTOBER 24-26 Introduction to Wetland Remote Sensing & Mapping (Wharton Hall, USL) NOVEMBER 14-16 Advanced GIS (ARC/INFO) for Natural Resources (Southern Science Center) EXPLANATIONS: Workshops are subject to change (topic, date or cancellation). Workshop participants must be aware that workshops can be cancelled due to insufficient enrollment. Several days before the starting workshop date participants will be informed if the workshop is cancelled. Workshop participants will be responsible for their own travel arrangements, schedules and changes. Number of class participants will be dependent upon available computer & optical equipment. First come first served! WORKSHOP COST: Workshop fee is $100 per student per day. OFF-SITE WORKSHOP ARRANGEMENTS: Some of the listed workshops can be held at sponsoring facilities or sites. CONTACT: C. "Pat" O'Neil Workshop Coordinator National Biological Service Southern Science Center 700 Cajundome Blvd. Lafayette, La. 70506 (Phone:318-266-8500 Fax:318-266-8513 E:mail address o'neilc@nwrc.gov) ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 11:05:40 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Introduction > Why have we received three copies of the introduction from John > Peacock -- the original and two 'forwarded' messages? I have no idea. I sent him a message with (hopefully) some helpful information and asking why his message had been duplicated so many times. On an entirely different note, I've finally been able to identify my "mystery pings". They are indeed P. caerulea. I'm incredibly patient until a plant decides to bloom, and then every little thing it does makes me jumpy. The purple flower stubbornly refused to open, then hung facing downwards, and is now turning upwards to face the light. Strange behavior, but as long as it's happy I'm happy. ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 10:34:40 -0700 Subject: D.hamiltonii and incompleteness of science >Is there anybody who has experience in getting D.hamiltonii flowers? I read >in Slack's book that it needs a cold period to induce flower formation. How >long has this period to be? A few nights in the fridge will do? My plant flowers regularly for me each spring. I have about 10 rosettes in a single pot perhaps 12cm in diameter. They grow along with my _Sarracenia_, sitting in water year-round. I think it is important not to disturb them since they did not flower for me the first few years I grew them. I was constantly dividing the plants for other growers then. Now when I am dividing this plant, I very carefully excise tiny plantlets instead of full-sized plants. During the winter they are exposed to a few months of evenings which drop to only 5--10 C. The flowers are stunningly beautiful, although they have never produced seed. Root propagation is the best way to multiply this plant. >Hopefully, even the "hard" sciences continue to evolve in their concepts, >theories, and so forth. But somehow, I've never heard anyone debate whether >a given number is a complex number or not, or the definition of Euclidean Complex systems (complex as in complicated, not as in number systems) require complex treatments and complex solutions. (I think Godel's incompleteness theorem may have applications here!) I think I am correctly paraphrasing TAYLOR in his introduction to his _Utricularia_ monograph when he said that, commenting on errors and shortcomings of his work, ``nothing is perfect except for the plants we study.'' Barry ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 18:48:57 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Re: Light tubes On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, dave evans wrote: > > From: Joachim Nerz > > > I think, the easiest and cheapest way to grow CP's under lights are the > > simple Industrial cold-white tubes, you do not need the expensive > > Growlux-lights; very bad experience I had with the blue-red > > 'fluora'-plant-lights! > > > > Bye > > Joe N. > > Could you please elaborate on your very bad experience? I am thinking > (huh-oh) of building a grow area using some of GE's 33 watt Sho & Gro > Bright Stik bulbs; just to try something new. I took a horticultural > class last year and we were taught that plants mostly use the reds and > blues of the spectrum with near complete disregard for greens and > yellows. Is this on the money? If true wouldn't a bulb that produces > more reds and blues be more cost effective at least a far as electrical > consumption is concerned (more of the electricity is in effect used by > the plants)? > > Thanks, Dave Evans > > Hello Evans, my bad is not the experience of money (they cost 5 times more than my white ones), but with the quality of plants, which I have grown under this lights. When I used this violet 'plant-lights', plants suffered, were green and were oftenly victims of fungi. It is right, theoretically, this violet tubes have a spectrum with 5 times more red and white than the white one (you are right, just the spectrum, which plants like for photosynthesis), but it seems, that first, you have to tell it your plants :-). With the usual white ones, anyway I had much better success and that's also the experience of several other growers, which I know. Why they are growing better, (physics, spectrum ...), maybe somebody else can tell you! Bye Joe N. ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 10:04:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Cephalotus lighting Hello everyone, I was just playing around in my terrarium yesterday when something occured to me. I read somewhere (I think in Marcel Lecoufle's book) that developing Cephalotus plants need to be kept in partial shade. I have a very young Cephalotus with two tiny traps and two tiny leaves on it in my terrarium. It sits approximately 1-1/2 feet under two wide spectrum fluorescent lights without shading. The two leaves I mentioned are new since I got it (around Dec. 15th), so it seems to be doing well. Does anyone think I should shade it a bit with foliage from other plants (epiphytes or something) or should I leave it as is since the light it is getting is much weaker than direct sun? - Trish ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 12:13:14 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: D.hamiltonii and incompleteness of science > My plant flowers regularly for me each spring. I have about 10 > rosettes in a single pot perhaps 12cm in diameter. They grow along > with my _Sarracenia_, sitting in water year-round. I think it is > important not to disturb them since they did not flower for me the > first few years I grew them. I was constantly dividing the plants for > other growers then. Now when I am dividing this plant, I very > carefully excise tiny plantlets instead of full-sized plants. During > the winter they are exposed to a few months of evenings which drop to > only 5--10 C. The flowers are stunningly beautiful, although they have > never produced seed. Root propagation is the best way to multiply > this plant. Could you give a few words of advice on soil, and things like that? My sole D. hamiltonii was killed by an unexpected frost after lingering in a state of poor health. ################### From: "Ch'Ien Ch'Ien Lee" Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:49:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Big bladders & Superthrive I just wanted to thank everyone for the info on the Utricularia and I apologize for my ignorance on the subject (I'm really a nepenthes grower). >From the correspondence, it sounds that species like U. dichotoma, U. longifolia, U. vulgaris, or U. tricolor would serve well for the purpose of classroom demonstration. Can anyone spare divisions of these species for trade ? And onto another subject, I seem to have missed some important discussions concerning the use of Superthrive. Having just bought a bottle, I'm a little wary of using the concentrations listed on the label. What do most people use and what kinds of results can I expect ? Much thanks, Ch'ien ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 08:35:06 +0930 Subject: Re: D. hamiltonii >Is there anybody who has experience in getting D.hamiltonii >flowers? I read in Slack's book that it needs a cold period to >induce flower formation. How long has this period to be? A few >nights in the fridge will do? My experience with this plant basically mirrors Barry's. My plant also flowers every year but no seed is produced. I really need to repot it as the plants are now becoming very congested and starting to grow sideways. I grow mine in peat:sand 2:1 (like everything else ;) )and sit it in a water tray all the year round. BTW Barry, the U.alpina seedlings are still alive ( my fingers are crossed at this point). Heard from a few members that they have had them germinate fine but then die off as you mentioned was in Taylor's book. From what you've written, the Arizona temps are sort of in the same range as here. Do you give your U. alpina any winter heat? Cheers Terry ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 17:10:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Big bladders & Superthrive > > I just wanted to thank everyone for the info on the Utricularia and I > apologize for my ignorance on the subject (I'm really a nepenthes grower). > >From the correspondence, it sounds that species like U. dichotoma, U. > longifolia, U. vulgaris, or U. tricolor would serve well for the purpose > of classroom demonstration. Can anyone spare divisions of these species > for trade ? > Much thanks, > > Ch'ien > > I guess I overlooked the first part of your questions mentioning classroom demonstrations. I have done classroom demonstrations for 6th and 7th graders and they love it! I used venus fly traps, Sarracenia, Utricularia, and Drosera. One of the high points was when I cut open a large S.luecophylla trap and showed them the remains of the bugs it caught. Same with Neps. They also loved letting the fly traps close on their fingers. I would encourage any growers who have the chance to volunteer for this kind of thing. Tom in Florida ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 08:50:02 +0930 Subject: Re: Cephalotus lighting Hi Trish, > I was just playing around in my terrarium yesterday when >something occured to me. I read somewhere (I think in Marcel >Lecoufle's book) that developing Cephalotus plants need to be >kept in partial shade. I have a very young Cephalotus with two >tiny traps and two tiny leaves on it in my terrarium. In the wild this plant apparently grows amongst tall grasses so this would indeed provide partial shade. I have some small plants which I produced from leaf cuttings and I have put them in strong light with no ill effects (yet!). If you find you plant is producing lots of leaves, it isn't getting enough light and conversely I have seen plants grown in very strong light and they have had very few reduced leaves. I think the best way to grow this or any other plant is to just try different things out. You can normally tell pretty quickly if your plant doesnt like it and so you do something different. Sure you may lose a few plants but when you get it right......Ahh! Cheers Terry ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 14:46:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Big bladders & Superthrive On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Tom wrote: > and showed them the remains of the bugs it caught. Same with Neps. > They also loved letting the fly traps close on their fingers. I would > encourage any growers who have the chance to volunteer for this kind > of thing. > > Tom in Florida > Hi Tom (and everyone) I'm not sure if I'm 100 percent correct on this (perhaps someone could set me straight) but I've read that you should not intentionally trigger the traps on VFTs (without feeding them) because they only close so many times during their life for food. If they're triggered enough times; they could die, from what I understand. Does anyone else have something to add, because I may have the wrong information ... Thanks, Trish ################### From: arthur_lauffenburger@macsys.amaranth.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 16:59:00 GMT Subject: cp discussion group Please tell me what I need to do to become a member of your carnivorous plant deiscussion group, I am writing a paper on the genus Nepenthes, and would like to be informed of the discussions that are going on currently within your group. A friend of mine has let me in on some of the letters of Sept 1994. and I would like to see what has been posted since then. I am very new to the internet, so I'm kind of fumbling around. My address is: artlauff@macsys.amaranth.com. Thank you Arthur Lauffenburger ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 18:03:16 +0500 XSubject: cp discussion group My name is Tom Hayes and I wanted to let fellow CP'ers to be aware of the following events that transpired between James Pietrapolo (sp?) and myself three years ago. I called him and wanted to buy misc. CP (cephalotus/ darlingtonia etc....) and mentioned that I was planning to go on a trip down south to see CP in their native habitat. The main purpose of the trip was to collect seed of the SE pinguicula so I could establish those species into my collection. He then offered me .50 cents for as many as 300 of each species of sariacenia that I could collect. Even though I needed money, there was no way that I would mass rape the land and put even more stress on these endangered plants. Several months prior to this phone call, I was planning a trip to see Niagra Falls, and noticed that I would be passing his house on the way. I was told he would not let me in to see his plants because he did not have insurance. I now suspect he simply didn't want me to see that he really doesn't have any plants in there. He gets the plants in and fills the orders that have accumulated. (Does he really grow plants other than darlingtonia and cephalotus). But then again, why bother growing the plants when he can get "suckers" to pick them from the wild? He risks nothing and offers near nothing in exchange. Whoever is caught collecting the plants will have to deal with the law. What a nice position for him to be in. Just wanted to let you all know where the plants from Peter Paul's really come from. Comments??? Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- Hayes (& Krissy) ################### From: davin.stewart@factory.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 95 11:50:00 -0500 Subject: Visiting Houstan Texas What motivated me to come forward out of the woodwork was the fact that I'm going to staying in Houstan Texas for about four weeks starting Febuary 6 and was wondering if there was anything to see or do regarding cp's down there. Anyone know of any juicy bogs around there? Any gardens to visit? I'll have access to a car, so I'll have a fairly good range. Any suggestions would be most welcome, Davin --- . SLMR 2.1a . ################### From: davin.stewart@factory.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 95 11:50:00 -0500 Subject: Hello... Hello all, I've been hanging in the background for some time now following the various threads. It's been some time since I posted here, so here's some background on me. I've been growing cp's for six or seven years now, ever since college. I'm working in New York City as a computer consultant and growing whatever cp I can in my small (and over-priced apartment) where I've got a 3'x1.5' growing chamber. Right now I've got _N. rafflesiana_, _alata_, _alata_ red, _khasiana_, and _burkii_ (sp?). I've got a two-year old _Cephalotus_ clump with 1" pitchers and a barely living _Heliamphora minor_ (at least it was alive this morning). Also, I've got a thriving _Drosera falconeri_ with leaves about 1" across. Those are the highlights of my collection. Here's the rest of it (hopefully spelled correctly): _Dionaea muscipula_ _Drosera binata_ _Drosera hamiltonii_ some unID'd tuberous _Drosera_ _Utricularia reniformis_ _Utricularia tricolor_ _Utricularia sandersonii_ _Utricularia prehensilis_ _Utricularia livida_ _Pinguicula ehlersae_ some unID'd Pings One day I'll get off my butt and send my growlist to Rick. More next letter, Davin --- . SLMR 2.1a . --- . SLMR 2.1a . ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 19:15:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Peter Paul's Howdy, I have been keeping my dealings with Peter Paul's to myself. However, Tom's story has prompted me to come forward. I am big in to getting kids to grow CP. I have a nice size group of kids whom I encourage. Several of them have been quite taken with my Nepenthes collection, primarily my N.rafflesiana. Several years ago (about 4 or 5) I gave them Peter Paul's brochure and it had a listing for an N.rafflesiana. It was a bit pricey (for a kid), so I subsidized the purchase. The plant we received from Peter Paul's was _not_ an N.rafflesiana. This thing was a pure bred mutt. It seemed to have a bit of N.gracilis in it. Instead of dealing with this place further, I made a cutting of my plant and helped root it (more of a learning experience anyway). This Nepenthes is still cluttering up my collection. It has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. It has _huge_ internodal distances and thin leaves with small traps. Truly a plant only a mother could love. This is not the only shady deal with Peter Paul's I have heard of. I would suggest you steer clear, at least when it comes to Nepenthes. There are plenty of good, honest dealers. If anyone would like a listing, I would be happy to give you a copy. Chris ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 20:12:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Peter Paul's I too have a bad experience with Peter Paul's I once needed to get a lot of live sphagnum moss in a hurry and didn't really want to go out and collect some (lots and lots near here) so I ordered a bushel from Peter Paul's. I called them up and said I needed a bushel quickly and was it possible. They said "No problem, if you pay by Visa will send it out tomorrow" fine I said and thought I'd have it in a couple days. I'm only 200 km from them and the post should be quick. 2 weeks later still hadn't received my moss. Called them up, "Sorry, we ran out the day you called but are getting more today. We'll send it out tomorrow." 2 weeks later moss still isn't here but Visa bill is, they charged it the day I called. I called them up and got the same song. This went on for 2 whole months when I finally got my soggy box with a garbage bag full of moss. There was lots of ants and cranberry and sticks and grass and whatever. Harold ...once bitten, twice shy... ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 20:35:35 +0500 Subject: Peter Paul's..... Yet again Chris Creel mentioned another thing that I have also encountered: plant id from Peter Paul's. I can't tell you how many stories I have heard about their sending incorrectly named plants. But then again, if he doesn't grow the plants in the first place, how is he supposed to know what they are? I forgot to mention one other thing. He also offered me .50 to .75 cents for each drosera/ping (from other countries) that I could send him. I was truly offended. Needless to say, I did not take him up on this offer either. He told me flat out that he is only interested in this for the money. I think it is a real shame. I grow these plants because I really find them fascinating. I still get excited watching a VFT close around an insect! Pardon me for venting here, I just think everyone should know. Take care & keep on growing, -Tom- Hayes ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 20:56:29 +0500 Subject: Sphagnum..... Eventually Harold, It probably took him a while to find the spot you know about...... -Tom- ################### From: Ron Gagliardo <74002.1371@compuserve.com> Date: 01 Feb 95 21:29:39 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes pollen available Hi Folks, I saw Christophs message regarding Nepenthes pollen. I have a few things coming into flower in the next 1-3 weeks (roughly): N. maxima male N. ventricose male and female N. burkei (personally, I have a hard time telling it apart from ventricosa, but for what it's worth, it's flowering) male N. truncata (yes, truncata) N. spathulata (female) (Andreas, N. maxima pollen going out tomorrow, per our private email last week) If anyone is interested in pollen, please post your requests to my private email address (should appear above), rather than to the list. Thanks. If you're successful, I could use a few seeds for in vitro work. Many thanks! Ron Gagliardo Atlanta Botanical Garden ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 19:45:13 -0700 Subject: Intoduction & Nepenthes Hello CPers, My name is Chris Frazier and I have been listening in for the last month. Very little has been published in the mainstream journals on the ecology of Nepenthes, so I am glad to find such a good resource here in cyberspace. I get the feeling that there is a lot of expertise around in the people who participate in this group. My interests are in how interfertile species can cooccur in nature and the role of hybridization in the evolution and ecology of such successful groups as the Nepenthes. My advisor, Tim Lowrey, worked with Nepenthes when he was at the U. of Singapore. He got me interested in the group even though my Master's work was with Ceanothus, a nonCP genus of California shrubs. The more specific goal of my Ph. D. study is to compare divergence in reproductive biology and pollinations systems of Nepenthes with geographical isolation and divergence in feeding strategy. I intend to work in Singapore, using the three species there, and to have another site in peninsular Malaysia or Borneo, looking again at the same three species plus others including some highland species. I am just starting out and still have a lot of work to do just becoming familiar with the taxa. I have a small cutting of a plant that was labeled as N. papauna, but besides that I am pretty new to CPs. If anyone out there has information the'd like to share about Nepenthes pollinators, flowers and inflorescences, feeding strategies or hybridization, I would be most appreciative to here about it. I'll probably be posting more specific questions later on. I look forward to talking with you, Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, Castetter Hall, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 Wk: (505) 277-0683 Home: (505) 255-2176 E-mail: cfrazie@unm.edu ################### From: bosco@interaccess.com (Doug Bosco) Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 23:04:32 -0600 Subject: ants and cps Last night I saw a fascinating Nova special (Public Broadcasting System) on Ants and their relationship with nature, especially plants. I wonder if certain ants have symbiotic relationships with specific CPs. Doug Bosco ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:56:30 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Intro -Reply On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Rogan Roth wrote: > Dear John, > > It's nice to hear from somebody else in sub-Saharan Africa! > There seem to be quite a few CP lovers in South Africa but very > few seem to be on the net. May I be the first to welcome you to > the CP group and may I suggest you contact me via private e-mail > so I can tell you more about our local CP operation without > having to bore the rest of the net to death! Dear Rogan, don't be shy, I think some of us (like e.g. me ;-) ) are really interested in the local activities of our few S-African CP-lovers. Maybe I can learn something about the fascinating Cape-flora! Isn't it? Bye Joe N. > Cheers for now. > > Regards > Rogan Roth. > > (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) > ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:00:40 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Want Nepenthes pollen On Wed, 1 Feb 1995 eheick@acs.bu.edu wrote: > In several weeks I will have a very lonely N. ventricosa. It is a > first time flower so I don't know if it is male or female. Does > anyone know if the differences can be distinguished before it flowers? > - or, do I have to wait? > And in preparation, since I feel that there are already many > N. ventricosas, will anyone have any interesting male Nepenthes in > bloom in the next few weeks or now? I would like to make an > interesting hybrid. > > Christoph > Dear Christoph, I hope, that soon a male N. carunculata (Malintang) will flower at me, if you are interested in. It is difficult to find out, if your N. ventricosa is male ore female, before your flowers are opened. Open some single ones, at the male ones you will find starts of anthers. Bye Joe N. ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:03:03 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: RHS colour chart On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, martin zevenbergen wrote: > The RHS colour chart is published by the Royal Horticultural Society > in London in association with the Flower Council of Holland. and I > think you can get it at the RHS, but I don't have an adress of them > (perhaps somebody from the UK can give?). You can also get it at the > Flower Council of Holland, the adress is: > > Flower Council of Holland Schipholweg 1 2316 XB Leiden The > Netherlands > > > Good luck, Martin Zevenbergen > Sorry, but what is a RHS colour chart? Joe ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 09:17:32 +0100 (CET) Subject: re: fluorescent light >I also noticed that there are different brands sold, e.g. coldwhite/ >warmwhite. Earlier (or other brands) are not labelled with respect >of the type of light. I read once in a book about aquariumlighting (I can search for the title if somebody is interested) that the colournumbers (which are sold by Philips), 82, 83 and 84 a little less, are the most efficient ones for plant-growing. I think these colour-codes are only used by Philips, so they're not interchangable between brands I think. These are fluorescent tube lights, which are available in 60 cm and 120 cm. Martin Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl ################### From: davin.stewart@factory.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 23:13:00 -0500 Subject: Peter Paul's CC>This is not the only shady deal with Peter Paul's I have heard of. CC>I would suggest you steer clear, at least when it comes to Nepenthes. I have to put my input in here about Peter Pauls. I have heard MANY bad stories about this guy, although the field collecting one is a first. I have called him up myself and gotten the same insurance excuse and I've also gotten mislabelled plants from this guy. In short, I would STRONGLY advise against buying anything from him. my $.02 Davin --- . SLMR 2.1a . ################### From: davin.stewart@factory.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 23:28:00 -0500 Subject: Hello... -Reply BE>If so have your U.prehensilis and U.tricolor flowered? I can't BE>get them to flower so any info would be helpful. Nope, of course, I've only been growing them for a couple of years though. When I received the U.tricolor it was sending up some flower spikes without any buds on them. The spikes eventually went black from the tip down without ever producing flowers. From what I've heard from other growers, this is a regular occurance with this species. Actually, I've never had much luck with Utricularia flowers (except for _U.sandersonii_ of course :). I think that they need a lot of room to expand before they will throw up a flower. Just a theory, Davin --- . SLMR 2.1a . ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:50:02 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Want Nepenthes pollen > On Wed, 1 Feb 1995 eheick@acs.bu.edu wrote: > > > In several weeks I will have a very lonely N. ventricosa. It is a > > first time flower so I don't know if it is male or female. Does > > anyone know if the differences can be distinguished before it > > flowers? - or, do I have to wait? > > And in preparation, since I feel that there are already many > > N. ventricosas, will anyone have any interesting male Nepenthes in > > bloom in the next few weeks or now? I would like to make an > > interesting hybrid. > > > > Christoph > > > Dear Christoph, > > I hope, that soon a male N. carunculata (Malintang) will flower at me, > if you are interested in. It is difficult to find out, if your N. > ventricosa is male ore female, before your flowers are opened. it's not too dificult ;-) Usually +/- ovate or slender buds turn out to be female, the rounder ones are male (....and this is no joke!!!) > Open some single ones, at the > male ones you will find starts of anthers. > > Bye > > Joe N. BTW my N. dubia (male) is still not open. Currently I can offer pollen of N. maxima (Sulawesi) and very soon pollen of N. dubia, tobaica, spectabilis and a no-name-hybrid. Anyone interested just drop me a line _with_ your snail mail adress. (The pollen suffer a lot from being faxed or e-mailed....) Bye, Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 13:22:13 +200 Subject: Utric flowers and flowering problems Dear Everybody (with & without utric problems), I grow U. prehensilis and U. tricolor outside, under 40% shade cloth and with periodical (automated) overhead misting - both flower very well for me (i.e. at the moment!). Of course U. prehensilis grows naturally not far from here so it should be happy, but I think the answer is constant moisture. Overhead misting is probably not practicable for many amateur growers but sufficient can probably be applied by using a hand atomiser two or three times a day. I did try and cultivate U. tricolor under lights where it did very well but never flowered - the inflorescences kept dying back. Our winters are relatively mild with the temperature seldom dropping below 0 deg.C for any length of time. I have six different forms of U. livida, two forms of U. sandersonii, U. prehensilis, U. tricolor, U. gibba, U. appendiculata (I think!) and a few other unidentified species flowering in my collection at the moment. They have done very well this year and are putting on quite a memorable display. Cheers for now. Best regards from Rogan in South Africa. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 13:32:49 +200 Subject: Re: Intro -Reply -Reply Dear Joe (and others), I did not mean to sound like a snob by by using personal e-mail and not spreading info and news about our local operation to others on the net - I just did not want to bore you all by posting colourless personal info. etc. instead of interesting plant orientated stuff. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but I am happy that you care enough to want to know more about CP (and other plants) in South Africa - I shall prepare something of general interest regarding SA's CP and post it to the group shortly. Cheers for now. Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 03:59:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Plans.uue (Tissue Culture) Here are the Plans for the Laminar Flow case, along with th a Glove Box and a Cheap rotator. They are now the same as from my Book, those I couldn't pull from my hard disk, by they should do. I will be happy to answer any questions. Rick Walker wrote this: > > FILE: laminar.shar, 45266 bytes, John Laroche's plans for a laminar > flow hood, glove box, and rotator. This file is in UNIX uuencoded > shar format with GIF images. > > FILE: laminar.zip, 29592 bytes John Laroche's plans for a laminar > flow hood, glove box, and rotator. This file is in ZIP uuencoded > format with BMP images. > >You can get these files by sending the command "GET CP laminar.shar" or >"GET CP laminar.zip" to the address "listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com". > >A complete list of all available files can be had with "INDEX CP". > Enjoy all, Good Luck! John -- ################### From: kevin.snively@pstbbs.com Date: Wed, 01 Feb 95 22:31:10 -0700 Subject: PNWCPC Begining thursday jan 26 95 I developed E-mail trouble I tryed to post this but have no idea if i was sucessfull so I'm sending it again. Sorry if you have already seen this. krs. P.N.W.C.P.C. is planning a work party for Feb. 11, 1995 @ 13:30 weather permitting at the Rhododendron Species Foundation in Federal Way, Wa. U.S.A. To continue construction on the outdoor Cp. bog project. >From I-5 take exit # 142 A and go East onto State Highway 16. Take the first exit "Weyerhaeuser Way S." and turn Left "North" Go about 1 mile to the main entrance to he Weyerhaeuser complex and follow the signs to the R. S. F. & Bonsi display. We will be meeing in the parking lot and admission is free for the work party. All intrested Cp'ers in the area are welcome. krs +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ # I.C.P.S. C/O Kevin Snively | 206-252-2911 # # P.O. Box 1013 | ksnive@pstbbs.com # # Everett Wa. 98206-1013 U.S.A. | Secretary/Treasurer I.C.P.S. # +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ ################### From: "Patrick Cox" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:10 AST Subject: Re: Peter Pauls' / mass raping the land On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Tom Hayes [as klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott)] wrote: =>My name is Tom Hayes and I wanted to let fellow CP'ers to be aware of =>the following events that transpired between James Pietrapolo (sp?) and =>myself three years ago. => =>I called him and wanted to buy misc. CP (cephalotus/ darlingtonia etc....) =>and mentioned that I was planning to go on a trip down south to see CP in =>their native habitat. The main purpose of the trip was to collect seed of =>the SE pinguicula so I could establish those species into my collection. => =>He then offered me .50 cents for as many as 300 of each species of =>sariacenia that I could collect. Even though I needed money, there was =>no way that I would mass rape the land and put even more stress on these =>endangered plants. => =>Several months prior to this phone call, I was planning a trip to see =>Niagra Falls, and noticed that I would be passing his house on the way. =>I was told he would not let me in to see his plants because he did not have =>insurance. I now suspect he simply didn't want me to see that he really =>doesn't have any plants in there. He gets the plants in and fills the =>orders that have accumulated. (Does he really grow plants other than =>darlingtonia and cephalotus). But then again, why bother growing the plants =>when he can get "suckers" to pick them from the wild? He risks nothing and =>offers near nothing in exchange. Whoever is caught collecting the plants =>will have to deal with the law. What a nice position for him to be in. I've had a similar experience with him as well. I wanted to purchase _Cephalotus_ and _Nepenthese_ seeds from him (no import permit needed). He said that he didn't sell seeds for these but would trade for them. What he wanted in return was a rare _Sarracenia_ species that grows wild here in Nova Scotia. Since the area where it grew was distant to me and in a remote location, I didn't think that this was a fair trade and decided I didn't really need these seeds. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it! (Damn sundew... I'm sticking to it too.) TTYL, ''' Plant Science Computer Technician Patrick Cox (o o) Nova Scotia Agricultural College ---------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------------ Gold is tried by fire, brave men by adversity. --Seneca ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:33:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Peter Pauls' / mass raping the land I too have had problems with Peter Paul's. I will never do business with these guys again. I ordered the Nepenthes (sp) from him. The plant arrived and was broken along the stem. Needless to say I contacted him and he very nicely said to send it back immediatley and he would replace it. I sent it back and after 2 months, several nasty phone calls, and a report to the Better Business Bureau, I recieved a letter from him saying that I had returned a defective plant that I broke and that he would not replace it. I was furious. This happened 3 years ago. Since then I have found more business that back up their plants. Watch out for P.P's Thanks, Ronnie Spears ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:18:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Big bladders & Superthrive > and showed them the remains of the bugs it caught. Same with Neps. > They also > > loved letting the fly traps close on their fingers. I would > > encourage any growers who have the chance to volunteer for this kind > > of thing. > > > > > > Tom in Florida > > > > > Hi Tom (and everyone) I'm not sure if I'm 100 percent correct on this > (perhaps someone could set me straight) but I've read that you should > not intentionally trigger the traps on VFTs (without feeding them) > because they only close so many times during their life for food. If > they're triggered enough times; they could die, from what I > understand. Does anyone else have something to add, because I may > have the wrong information ... Thanks, Trish > > Trish: In general thats right, a trap will only work so many times before it dies. However, triggering a trap with your finger only stimulates the first phase of closing, and traps can go through that phase a number of times. Besides, they can only be triggered once during a demonstration and even triggering every trap on the plant once is not going to produce any ill effects for the plant as a whole. (This is not to say you should make it a daily habit) Tom in Florida, with his finger still caught ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 09:08:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: Peter Pauls I'm a little disheartened by all this talk about Peter Pauls, not because I endorse them in any way, but because I trust in the honesty of the people on this list. The one order I placed with them arrived in fair condition, with no mistakes, but it took over a month even though the check cleared the bank within two weeks. Since I will not be placing another order with them, does anyone know of another source for U. praelonga and U. tricolor? Thanks for all the information on D. hamiltonii. One of the other things that killed mine was fungus infection, and, although Green Light fungicide worked wonders, it was apparently too late, although I did manage to save my D. aliciae and U. prehensilis. ################### From: MBT1159@ACS.TAMU.EDU Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:58:13 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: Visiting Houstan Texas Davin, I am going to school in College Station, TX, about 90 miles north of Houston. I am reasonably familiar with the city. Unfortunately, there is very little to see in the way of CPs. The only thing I know of that is there is a man (from an in the CPN) who sells _Sarracenias_ in floating pots for pools and the like. There are a few gardens, Moody Gardens in Galveston and maybe one or two others around, but the last time I was there, they didn't have any CPs on display. I was not terribly impressed by that fact, but the conservatoy was otherwise wonderful. This is not to say that there aren't any, but I don't know of them. There's always my humble CP collection here in College Station! It's not terribly spectacular, however. Is anyone else on this group from the Houston area, or even Texas for that matter? Additional input? Matthew Thompson Texas A&M University ################### From: jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 12:30:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: U. tricolor Source Christopher Waldron asked about a source for U. tricolor. I got one from Lee's Botanical Gardens last fall. I got it as a substitute for another species I had ordered (it's not on his sales list so he may only have it in limited quantities. I'm at work and don't have the address handy, but you should be able to find it in CPN or in the CP archives. john ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:55:02 GMT+1 Subject: Re: ants and cps > Last night I saw a fascinating Nova special (Public Broadcasting System) on > Ants and their relationship with nature, especially plants. > > I wonder if certain ants have symbiotic relationships with specific CPs. > Indeed! The hollow tendrils of N. bicalcarata are somtimes inhabited by highly specialised ants. As far as I've heared the queen sits in the hollow tendril and a part of the minute colony only consisting of 10-20 ants lives under the peristome and fishes for the plants' victims in the fluid of the pitcher. The plant might be protected from insect diseases and has to pay by giving som of it's victims away. There are some other insect/CP-relationships (...not the usual predator-victim ones...anyway round...) e.g. bugs living on Byblis and Roridula, Spiders (no insects of cause but nevertheless fascinating...) inside Nepenthes pitchers, Diptera larvae living in pitcher fluids... Bye Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:24:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: your mail On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Kristin L. Mott wrote: > Subject: Peter Paul's / mass raping the land. My name is Tom Hayes > and I wanted to let fellow CP'ers to be aware of the following events > that transpired between James Pietrapolo (sp?) and myself three years > ago. > > I was planning to go on a trip down south to see CP in the wild. He > then offered me .50 cents for as many as 300 of each species of > sariacenia that I collect. > > why bother growing the plants when he can get "suckers" to pick them > from the wild? Whoever is caught collecting the plants will have to deal with the law. Hi Tom (& everyone), I wish I heard about this two months ago (before I bought a Cepholotus from Peter Paul's). This is really disturbing news and that man should be put out of business. It's unfortunate that so many nurseries do this sort of thing. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I for one, am very glad people like you aren't afraid to speak out. - Trish ################### From: R Britt Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 10:44:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Greenhouse Plans Does anyone have a favorite book or equivalent of greenhouse plans or blueprints? I would like to set a good size hobby house up this spring. Thanks, -Dave B ################### From: arthur_lauffenburger@macsys.amaranth.com Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 14:36:00 GMT Subject: Nepenthes carnipla@aol.com Topic: Nepenthes To: Y'all: My name is Arthur Lauffenburger, I have been a grower of Orchids as well as CP for about 25 years. Although I now live here in Sarracenia Heaven on the Gulf Coast, I've always had a particular fondness for Nepenthes. I am currently working on 2 projects: 1. A list of the Nepenthes Hybrids, trying to standardize and determine the actual original hybrid names and which are merely cultivars of the original cross. I am finally coming to the home stretch on that project and hope to publish it for everyone's scrutiny in the CPN. Some of you have already seen the preliminary work (YES, I KNOW there are still a TON of mistakes, but unless people point them out I won't know where they are!). 2. A complete set of botanical descriptions of each of the species of Nepenthes. Here is a list of plants for which I haven't yet found descriptions, nor have a good enough representative in my meager collection. I'm trying to rekey the genus Nepenthes, laugh, well, I've got plenty of time, and it is helping me to learn the species a lot better. The point is this, many of the descriptions of plants that were made back in the early years are sketchy at best, even IF the journals are available. I'm trying to get a complete collection of the botanical descriptions of each of the species. This poses a problem: WHAT ARE THE SPECIES and what are the variations on the species? I find that by examining the original views of the botanist, as well as the plant material itself, I can see justifications (or lack) for species status; i.e., burkei vs ventricosa: difference in number of veins on the lid as well as variation in the mouth shape, (is that enough?) -or- anamensis vs. kampotiana and geoffrayi, aren't they merely geographically distinct populations of the same species? There are 25 or so that I havenUt been able to find described. They are as follows: N. adnata Tamin & Hotta (described in 1986) N. anamensis Macfarlane 1908 N. aristolochioides 1994 N. bellii Kondo 1969 N. borneensis Adam & Wilc. 1989 N. burkei Masters 1889 N. campanulata Kurata 1973 N. danseri Waig. & Hamal. 1994 N. deaniana Macfarlane 1908 N. densiflora Danser 1940 N. diatas 1994 N. distillatoria Linne 1753 N. glabrata Turnb. & Middle. 1984 (aka N. rubro-maculata, illegal) N. hamata Turnb. & Middle. 1984 (aka N. dentata) N. khasiana Hook. f. 1873 N. macrophylla Marabini 1994 N. mapuluensis Adam & Wilc. 1990 N. muluensis Hotta 1966 N. murudensis Culham 1994 N. pervillei Blume 1852 N. philippinensis Macf. 1908 N. rhombicaulis Kurata 1973 N. spathulata Danser 1935 N. thorelii Lecomte 1909 N. truncata Macfarlane 1911 N. ventricosa Blanco 1837 Please use the following criteria and describe any of these that occur in your collections, I would REALLY appreciate it. Be sure to use adult plants only. Stem: Climbing? Prostrate? Other? Length: Stem Shape: Width: Leaves: Petiolate or Sessile? Petiole Shape? Type of attachment to the stem: Leaf Shape: Length x Width (Range): Margins: Apex Shape: Base Shape: Number of Longitudinal Veins: Where Veins are Located: Pennate Veins: Lower Pitchers: Complete Shape Description: Length x Width (Range): Wings or Ribs: Width of Wings: Peristome Shape: Width of Peristome: Mouth Shape: Lid Shape: Size: Lid Apex Shape: Lid Base Shape: Lid Glands or Appendages: Spur Shape: Spur Length: Upper Pitchers: Complete Shape Description: Length x Width (Range): Wings or Ribs: Width of Wings: Peristome Shape: Width of Peristome: Mouth Shape: Lid Shape: Size: Lid Apex Shape: Lid Base Shape: Lid Glands or Appendages: Spur Shape: Spur Length: Inflorecence: Raceme or Panicle: Length,Including Axis: Number of Flowers on Pedicel: Length of Pedicel: Bracts or not: Indumentum: Color: DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: MOST IMPORTANT! Why is this species DIFFERENT, & what JUSTIFIES it as a species! (If you donUt know, donUt guess; leave it blank.) I would especially like to hear from J. Schauer, A. Wistuba, J. Nerz, T. Carow, M. Jebb, M. Cheek or R. Walker, if any of you have the time or inclination to respond. I have been able to see Jebb's discussion in Nature Malaysiana, as well as Kurata's book and the monograph by Danser, as well as viewing many of the species at Fuqua in Atlanta. If anyone cares to help, I'll be foerever indebted and be happy to give credit where credit is due. Good growing, Arthur Lauffenburger P.S. I was given copies of Nepenthes discussions through mid September 1994, how can I get archives of the remaining discussion letters to date? I'm brand new to the NET and very inexperienced. artlauff@macsys.amaranth.com ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 12:18:00 -0500 Subject: ants and cps Doug Bosco said: DB>Last night I saw a fascinating Nova special (Public Broadcasting DB>System) on Ants and their relationship with nature, especially DB>plants. DB>I wonder if certain ants have symbiotic relationships with specific DB>CPs. I saw the special also (even taped it so my daughter could watch it later). I was wondering the same thing about Ants and CPs. As stated in the program the ants are the most successful insects that there are and have developed many different symbiotic relationships with plants and animals and some of the relationships seem quite complex. It seems to beg question about ants and CPs. Greg Long greg.long@factory.com --- . POW 1.1 0043 . A truly wise man never plays leapfrog with a moose. ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:42 EST Subject: RE: Galapagos Crisi on TV > > I have heard that the crisis at Darwin Station will be covered on the TV > program "Day One", thursday night, here in the US. My "source" now tells me this episode is being held till a later date. Sorry. Michael ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:20:02 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 243 To:Eheick@acs.bu.edu re: sexing preopened Neps. Nepenthes can be sexed long before flowers are open with pretty good accuracy by the shape of the inflorescence. Male inflor. will look like an inverted cone tapering to a point, females are very cylindrical. Also males may produce multiple inflorescences on one shoot, while this is more rare in females. Please forgive any lack of protocol on the net as this is my first letter out. Good Growing, Cliff ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 16:28:58 -0700 Subject: Various topics So many interesting topics in the most recent batch of CP mail.... Regarding _D.hamiltonii_ and _U.alpina_.... >Could you give a few words of advice on soil, and things like that? >My sole D. hamiltonii was killed by an unexpected frost after >lingering in a state of poor health. Chris, I use pure milled, dead _Sphagnum_. The 12 cm pot is only about 8cm tall (it is a ``dwarf'' pot). It sits in 2--5 cm of water all year, slightly lower during the winter. Sometimes it goes through phases of dormancy in which the leaves stop producing mucous on the tentacle glands, but most of the time it is dewey. Flowers are produced on very long scapes in the spring (I expect to see signs of these in the rosette center very soon). >BTW Barry, the U.alpina seedlings are still alive ( my fingers Terry, glad to hear it! Do I give them winter heat? I keep them above around 15C (60F), but that is it. Regarding Peter Paul's and low-down slimy behaviour.... All these comments on Peter Paul's are interesting and are things I've heard before. I too have received field-plants and incorrectly ID'd plants from them and have long stopped doing business with them for this reason. But just a word of caution....remember that from a legal point of view emailing to a newsgroup is probably the same as publishing. So make sure you don't write anything that is too slanderous if you can't back yourself up on it. You don't know what kind of legal action PP's may take. Regarding Texas bogs...... >Anyone know of any juicy bogs around there? Any gardens to visit? >I'll have access to a car, so I'll have a fairly good range. I like the phrase ``juicy bogs''! Eastern Texas has a few CP, and if you could perhaps you might drive all the way to Angelina Co. to look at _S.alata_. Out here in Arizona distances seem smaller so such drives are not too impossible. Regarding ants and CP...... >Last night I saw a fascinating Nova special (Public Broadcasting System) on >Ants and their relationship with nature, especially plants. >I wonder if certain ants have symbiotic relationships with specific CPs. Doug, Indeed they do. In the much-touted _Nepenthes_ issue of _Nature Malaysiana_ there is mention of a solitary species of ``drummer ant'' that lives with _Nepenthes_. Also _N.bicalcarata_ has an inflated tendril which supposedly is colonized by ants, much like _Myrmecodia_ (sp?). Barry ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:57:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hey, it's Cliff Dodd!!! Cliff Dodd wrote: > Please forgive any lack of protocol on the net as this is my first > letter out. > > Good Growing, > > Cliff Hey, aaaaaalriiiiight! I'm happy that you're finally hooked up with us, Cliff. Your nepenthes cultivation skills, and your impressive collection, have quite a reputation in the U. S. CP community. Now all we need to do is get Bill McLaughlin from U. S. Botanic Gardens, and Rob Sacilotto both on line. Doesn't look like it'll happen soon, unfortunately. Regards, Perry Malouf pmalouf@access.digex.net ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 16:38:18 PST Subject: D. gigantea from seed? Hi, Does anyone out there have experience growing D. gigantea from seed? Does it germinate quickly, or does it take 2-3 months with just the right cold temperatures? Does it do any better with a smoke treatment? For tuberous drosera, I've seen a wide range of behavior. The D. ramellosa and D. platypoda I planted last October took till the end of December (outside, where the temperature got down to just above freezing at night) to come up. D. planchonii, on the other hand, sprouted in three or four weeks sitting inside on a window sill. I made up two pots with D. platypoda seeds, one of which I gave a short smoke treatment. It didn't seem to make any difference. In both cases I got around 20-30% germination. Glenn Rankin rankin@hpl.hp.com ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:45:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP digest 243 > > To:Eheick@acs.bu.edu > From:Cliff Dodd > re: sexing preopened Neps. > > Nepenthes can be sexed long before flowers are open with pretty good accuracy > by the shape of the inflorescence. Male inflor. will look like an inverted > cone tapering to a point, females are very cylindrical. Also males may > produce multiple inflorescences on one shoot, while this is more rare in > females. Please forgive any lack of protocol on the net as this is my first > letter out. > > Good Growing, > > Cliff > Using this info and the one given by Andreas, I think I have a male N. ventricosa. Thanks for the info and I will keep you posted. Cliff do you know what Bruce Bednar's N. sp. Sumatra is? Any help would be appreciated in IDing this plant. Christoph eheick@acs.bu.edu ################### From: sportman@students.wisc.edu (Scott Portman) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 17:15:15 -0600 Subject: Peter Pauls I have not dealt with Peter Paul's. However, their price list is included on the CP sell sheet available through this list. Perhaps their posting should be deleted if so many people agree that they are violating basic standards of plant conservation. I don't know what legal issues are involved, but I certainly think it's appropriate to decline advertising from those who sell large numbers of wild-collected plants. ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 15:59:52 GMT Subject: Re: Utrics > From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) ... > For Utrics with large bladders, you're making life hard for yourself looking > for _U.humboldtii_ because this plant is considered very desireable to CPers > and would be hard to obtain. I suggest you go with _U.longifolia_ which has > quite respectable bladders and grows very quickly. You can let stolons grow > into soil-free water and then obtain very nice views of the bladders. It is > a vigorous grower and will tend to do this anyway out of the bottom of the > pot! Hmmm, this got me pondering, and I came to the conclusion that a good way to deal with the relative invisibility of the 'best bits' of Utrics and similar plants, while keeping a tidy tray, would be to grow them in those cyanoacrylate beer glasses that seem to be gaining favour at outdoor events and in certain pubs ( ones with public order problems one suspects. ) Not the flimsy plastic, throwaway ones ( though they would probably do OK too. ) Just drill a couple of holes in the base and treat it as a normal pot. Should look good for Genlisea too I guess. I know I've seen these glasses sold in some shops as picnic-ware too. For that matter with a carbide drill bit and a steady hand, you could probably use a jam jar... It might even make Dactylella or other carnivorous fungi interesting to grow. Hell, there are 140 or so carnivorous Cryptograms out there - that's more than there are species of Drosera! Anyone know anything about these? - I don't remember any mention of them since I've been on the list, but I'd sure be interested... Happy growing, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | Email addresses of the future: Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | # 136 - root@flytrap.ve ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 22:48 EST Subject: RE: Peter Paul's > I have not dealt with Peter Paul's. However, their price list is included > on the CP sell sheet available through this list. Perhaps their posting > should be deleted if so many people agree that they are violating basic > standards of plant conservation. I don't know what legal issues are > involved, but I certainly think it's appropriate to decline advertising > from those who sell large numbers of wild-collected plants. Indeed. Why does it seem we've all done business with Peter Pauls? They have been one of the best-advertised and long-lived of the CP providers. They are listed in the "source" list in the back of nearly all CP books, while the alternative businesses listed there are often defunct. I second Barry's warning about potential lawsuits. I heard about such happening in another newsgroup. There the FAQ file had discouraging words about a certain business, which later threatened lawsuit against the FAQ writer. On the other hand, I think these stories about Peter Paul's have been very valuable and quite entertaining! I'd hate to see us initiate self-censorship out of fear. Perhaps we could use some legal counsil in this matter. Is there a carnivorous lawyer in the room? :-) Michael ################### From: wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl (Wim Osterholt) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 04:51:02 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: Utrics Peter, > Utrics and similar plants, while keeping a tidy tray, would be > to grow them in those cyanoacrylate beer glasses that seem to be -^^^^^^^^^^^^^- Are you shure about this? Cyanoacrylate is the glue that wil harden in a few seconds when brought in narrow capillairs and when in contact with some humidity. It is sold everywhere for years now and it isn't quite healthy. Could be that beer drinkers are resistent.. :-) Regards, Wim. ----- wim@djo.wtm.tudelft.nl ----- (wim@morgana.gds.nl) ################### From: bosco@interaccess.com (Doug Bosco) Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 23:17:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Peter Pauls > >I have not dealt with Peter Paul's. However, their price list is included >on the CP sell sheet available through this list. Perhaps their posting >should be deleted if so many people agree that they are violating basic >standards of plant conservation. I don't know what legal issues are >involved, but I certainly think it's appropriate to decline advertising >from those who sell large numbers of wild-collected plants. > > I'll agree with this. I also had a bad experience with Peter Paul's. It involved a dead Drosera which he wouldn't take back. He said it was in hibernation. I said it was deceased, ceased to be, it was a DEAD Drosera (it wasn't pining for the bloody fjords!) which he sent me. I didn't send it back, however, figuring it wouldn't be easy to get my money back (I guess I was right). And I'm not even mentioning the questionable state of several VFTs I got from him. Doug Bosco ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:05:39 -0700 (MST) Subject: Thanks & PP First I want to thank everyone for their feedback on dormancy and feeding of carnivorous plants. It appears I will be using my basement more next winter for storage. I have not chosen to put them outside because the winters in Colorado can have temperatures of -10 or more (although this winter has been amazingly mild). Regarding the practices of various nurseries such as Peter Paul's. I believe we should be able to express our like or dislike of any distributor. However, in a litigious society there could be legal ramifications if accusations are made that they engage in illegal practices. I am not a lawyer so I don't claim to understand all the intricacies of this. I believe the safest way to post messages would be limiting it to personal testimonies of poor service. Let the group "read-between-the-lines" as to whether this indicates illegal environmental practices. I thank those who have been willing to post their experiences. Half of my current plants came from Peter Paul's Nursery the rest from a local greenhouse who buys them from an individual grower. Having been enlightened by the previous posts I shall have to place much thought into who I am willing to buy from in the future. I must state, though, that my plants from PPN did arrive in reasonable time and only one drosera died from drying out during shipping (I had ordered around 12 plants). If any has any good/bad experiences with other nurseries let me know as I plan to buy more this Spring. If you don't want to post the message to the group then E-mail it to me direct! :) Thanks! John Peredur@usa.net ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 00:20:10 -0500 Subject: Various Subjects Hi All, Here in south Georgia (GA, for all those who hate those abbrev.) where the temperature is 70 F I am wondering if anyone knows if Ron Determan (No offense if I spelled it wrong) is on the CP server? I have never seen any comments from him. In addition, Thanks for the kind response to my plea for plant sources etc... Everyone is so nice to read and talk too on this server compared to others. I will soon be rejoining ICPN. Sorry for my abscence for the past three years. Grad school tends to force one into the poverty level. How much are dues now? I know they are reasonable. Georgia Southern University has a great, small Botanical Garden that concentrates on showing the species that grow here on the Coastal Plain. In the future plans for the Gardens is a PITCHER PLANT BOG. It looks great on paper. It is going to cost about $10,000 to build this bog garden. It will show all of the native Georgia carnivores in a natural setting with orchids and the like. The Gardens are being built by sponsers who enjoy coming to the Gardens. Most people just give to help. We also have many species of carnivores here in south GA. So stop by if you are in the area. Someone can show you around. Thanks, Ronnie Spears gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu ################### From: Brian Jones Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 21:19:41 PST Subject: RE: Peter Paul's I have never dealt with Peter Paul's (though I had thought about it); anyway, it's neither slander or libel if you speak the truth. That leads me to a question: Is the wild collection of CPs illegal, or merely immoral? If the collection of CPs is illegal, is the possession of such plants also illegal? If it is immoral, then we need to assert our rights as consumers and purchase plants from responsible people. Furthermore, with some of the bright lights in CPdom reading and writing on this list, perhaps those who know can inform authors of books and periodicals that they shouldn't provide free advertising to ecologically-destroying companies: it worked for tuna, why not plants? -BJ ################### From: "Rupert G. Goldie" Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 15:38:59 +1100 Subject: Re: Peter Paul's "Michael.Chamberland" wrote: > > I have not dealt with Peter Paul's. However, their price list is included > > on the CP sell sheet available through this list. Perhaps their posting > > should be deleted if so many people agree that they are violating basic > > standards of plant conservation. I don't know what legal issues are > > involved, but I certainly think it's appropriate to decline advertising > > from those who sell large numbers of wild-collected plants. > [...] > I second Barry's warning about potential lawsuits. I heard about such > happening in another newsgroup. There the FAQ file had discouraging > words about a certain business, which later threatened lawsuit against > the FAQ writer. The safest thing to do is simply not list Peter Paul's in the sell sheet that way there is nothing defamatory/libellous but you're not promoting them either. -- Rupert G. Goldie, Research Scientist rgg@aaii.oz.au Australian Artificial Intelligence Institute /\/\|| Level 6, 171 Latrobe Street, Melbourne, Australia ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 14:59:32 +0930 Subject: RE Utrics Peter, > Hmmm, this got me pondering, and I came to the >conclusion that a > good way to deal with the relative invisibility of the >'best bits' > of Utrics and similar plants, while keeping a tidy tray, >would be > to grow them in those cyanoacrylate beer glasses that >seem to be > gaining favour at outdoor events and in certain pubs ( >ones with > public order problems one suspects. ) Not the flimsy >plastic, > throwaway ones ( though they would probably do OK too. ) We do something for our annual show so people can get an appreciation of what Utrics do. It is easily achieved by planting your Utric in a small pot (or clear plastic glass) with holes in the base and then placing this in one of the plastic glasses you mentioned (yes the flimsy ones work). The water level is kept up in the outer glass and soon the utric will grow out of the pot into the plastic glass, much the way they do in the water trays. You can then view the world through the clear plastic. Terry ################### From: bertozzi.terry@wpo.pi.sa.gov.au Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 16:25:23 +0930 Subject: Holidays Hi all, Will be offline for a couple of weeks so be patient for a reply if you send mail direct. I'll go through the archived messages when I get back. Finally get to have some annual leave and give my plants some TLC :) Cheers Terry ################### From: barry@mips3.as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 23:12:36 -0700 Subject: Utrics and PPs too There have been some inquiries about Utrics (_U.tricolor_, _U.praelonga_, _U.longifolia_ etc). I suggest you try Lee's Botanical or asking others on this list for it. If you can't find them in a few months I could send some to you myself as I'll have more free time then. A few $$$ per plant would be exchanged if you lack trading leverage. But maybe there are some other growers with it available. Rogan, I'm very interested that you get _U.tricolor_ to flower. I have two clones, very distinct from each other in leaf, which produce endless scapes which dry at the tips. This happens in the greenhouse and in the terrarium. Very frustrating. >I have not dealt with Peter Paul's. However, their price list is included >on the CP sell sheet available through this list. Perhaps their posting >should be deleted if so many people agree that they are violating basic >standards of plant conservation. I don't know what legal issues are This is a very interesting idea. Perhaps the address could be deleted and the throwaway disclaimer that ``Due to the unfortunately short lifetimes of CP nurseries, this list may not be complete. Firms with a documented history of field collection may also be excluded.'' A basic C-Y-A statement. >good way to deal with the relative invisibility of the 'best bits' >of Utrics and similar plants, while keeping a tidy tray, would be >to grow them in those cyanoacrylate beer glasses that seem to be I use the cut-off bottoms of 2-liter soda-pop bottles for some species. It works reasonably well. Barry ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 8:55:54 +200 Subject: Peter Pauls -Reply Dear Christopher (and all), I don't have U. praelonga but I do have several U. tricolor and several other South African utricularias available if you are interested. Cheers for now Rogan Roth. (ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA) ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 23:16:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP digest 244 I notice that Arthur is describing hybrids in a form I recognise, i.e., N. thorelii Lecomte, N. pervillei Blume, N. macrophylla Marabini, etc. Species in loweer case followed by hybrid name capitalized. I have NEVER understood why CPers use something like "Nepenthes x jackson" as a description. Can someone explain why? Cheers Phil ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:51:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Big bladders & Superthrive > I'm not sure if I'm 100 percent correct on this (perhaps someone could > set me straight) but I've read that you should not intentionally > trigger the traps on VFTs (without feeding them) because they only > close so many times during their life for food. If they're triggered > enough times; they could die, from what I understand. Does anyone > else have something to add, because I may have the wrong information No - I'm pretty sure it is bad for them, but as long as you don't keep closing them all the time... For the last two years, most of my plants have been taken to an exhibition visited by children, and by the end of the day there isn't a single open VFT trap to be found, but it's only once per year so I don't mind. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:47:45 +0000 Subject: Re: Cephalotus lighting > I read somewhere (I think in Marcel Lecoufle's book) that developing > Cephalotus plants need to be kept in partial shade. I have a very > young Cephalotus with two tiny traps and two tiny leaves on it in my > terrarium. It sits approximately 1-1/2 feet under two wide spectrum > fluorescent lights without shading. The two leaves I mentioned are > new since I got it (around Dec. 15th), so it seems to be doing well. > Does anyone think I should shade it a bit with foliage from other > plants (epiphytes or something) or should I leave it as is since the > light it is getting is much weaker than direct sun? I can't speak from huge experience, but my two plants are doing fine in full sun - mind you, full sun in a British greenhouse might not be as intense as full sun in other places :-). They are gradually getting bigger, with traps now 1.5 inches (4cm) from top to bottom. >From what I read, this is quite a respectable size. The traps get quite red on the sunward side (until I turn the plants round), so I guess that too much sun might cause excessive redness. I notice that the traps seem to secrete a liquid on their toothed lip. It looks quite enticing, but does not seem to be sticky. Do these plants ever catch anything? I have never found anything in the old traps. The two older ones have now been joined be a 1994 seedling, but it is still very small after its first year. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:20:49 GMT+1 Subject: Re: CP digest 243 > Good Growing, > > Cliff > Hello Cliff, I just saw your posting regarding Nepenthes flowers. I did not realize you're here on the list and suppose that you might have joined recently. In this respect - Welcome! Best wishes from Germany All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Martin.Zevenbergen@ALGEM.PT.WAU.NL (martin zevenbergen) Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:46:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: re: RHS colour chart >On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, martin zevenbergen wrote: > >> The RHS colour chart is published by the Royal Horticultural Society in >> London in association with the Flower Council of Holland. and I think you can >> get it at the RHS, but I don't have an adress of them (perhaps somebody >>from >> the UK can give?). >> You can also get it at the Flower Council of Holland, the adress is: >> >> Flower Council of Holland >> Schipholweg 1 >> 2316 XB Leiden >> The Netherlands >> >> Good luck, Martin Zevenbergen >> >Sorry, but what is a RHS colour chart? > >Joe I'm sorry I didn't quote the question I answered, but a few days ago somebody was asking where to get the colour chart. Now, what is the colour chart? It is a pattern-card consisting of 3 'fans' with all kinds of colours. It is used to standardize the description of colours. So, instead of just saying that a flower is purple (very subjective) you can look for the most resembling colour in the colour chart, and conclude that the most resembling colour is (for example) purple-violet no. 06. It's common used to describe cultivars, so it can be useful when you want to describe a colour, because it's well known all over the world, so you can communicate about colours without being subjective. (at least, if the other person has the colour chart). The chart is not only made to describe the colour of flowers, but it also includes a lot of different foliage colours, so abberations in foliage colour couldn't be a problem. A problem is that colour of flowers and (even more) foliage, depends not only on the genotype, but also on the environment, especially light intensity (and low night temperatures?). All the best, Martin Martin.Zevenbergen@algem.pt.wau.nl ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:35:39 +0100 Subject: Re: fungi Peter, > It might even make Dactylella or other carnivorous fungi interesting > to grow. Hell, there are 140 or so carnivorous Cryptograms out > there It is quite a lot more species than that! But I would hesitate to call fungi cryptogams (if you do not include animals and bacteria in this taxon). They are more properly classified as derived protists (probably closer to animals than to plants!). > - I don't remember any mention of them > since I've been on the list, but I'd sure be interested... One reason might be that they are *not plants*... Kind regards Jan ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:45:42 +0100 Subject: Re: Nepenthes Arthur, >I am currently working on 2 projects: (...) >2. A complete set of botanical descriptions of each of the species of >Nepenthes. It seems this is rather close to the project by Matthew JEBB and Martin CHEEK (hi, Matthew and Martin!) for Flora Malesiana. Be sure to avoid unnecessary duplicate work! >Here is a list of plants for which I haven't yet found descriptions, nor >have a good enough representative in my meager collection. There is a list of publications concerning the original descriptions of cps (yes, I am -again- referring to my synopsis; well, if noone else does...). You may check this first. I do have some of the literature as xeroxes. Please indicate which you need (i.e. which you are not able to obtain via interlibrary loan). I will try to tie up a bundle for you. >i.e., burkei vs ventricosa: difference in number of veins on the lid as >well as variation in the mouth shape, (is that enough?) Well, there are differences in pitcher shape, too. But I am not really sure if _N.burkei_ is not a hybrid involving _N.ventricosa_. >-or- anamensis >vs. kampotiana and geoffrayi, aren't they merely geographically distinct >populations of the same species? Not even geographically distinct! N.kampotiana & geoffrayi are based on material not only colected the same day at the same locality but even with interdigitating (!) collection numbers. Some material of which being so similar that it could be different fragments of a single individual. These all are to be united under _N.anamensis_ as the first valid name (publ. in prep.). > There are 25 or so that I havenUt been able to find described. They are >as follows: Many of these have been described, actually: > N. adnata Tamin & Hotta (described in 1986) I have a xerox (=hax). Validated in 1994 by (Joe NERZ & yours truly). hax. > N. anamensis Macfarlane 1908 hax. > N. bellii Kondo 1969 hax. > N. borneensis Adam & Wilc. 1989 hax. > N. burkei Masters 1889 hax. > N. campanulata Kurata 1973 hax. > N. deaniana Macfarlane 1908 hax. > N. densiflora Danser 1940 hax. > N. glabrata Turnb. & Middle. 1984 hax >(aka N. rubro-maculata, illegal) Legal but illegitimate (later homonym). BTW, the hyphen is an orthographic error. hax. > N. hamata Turnb. & Middle. 1984 hax. >(aka N. dentata) hax. > N. khasiana Hook. f. 1873 hax. > N. macrophylla Marabini 1994 Not yet validated at specific rank. hax. > N. mapuluensis Adam & Wilc. 1990 hax. > N. muluensis Hotta 1966 hax. > N. pervillei Blume 1852 hax. > N. philippinensis Macf. 1908 hax. > N. rhombicaulis Kurata 1973 hax. > N. spathulata Danser 1935 hax. > N. thorelii Lecomte 1909 hax. > N. truncata Macfarlane 1911 hax. > N. ventricosa Blanco 1837 hax. >I would especially like to hear from J. Schauer (...) (you do not mean me , do you?) 8-) Kind regards Jan ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 07:56:44 EST Subject: RE: Peter Paul's RE: BJ's comment "it's neither slander [n]or libel if you speak the truth." Unfortunately, in our present society such niceties don't stop people -- and quick buck lawyers -- from instigating costly lawsuits. Bob korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 08:22 EST Subject: Colo(u)r chart > The chart is not only made to describe the colour of flowers, but it also > includes a lot of different foliage colours, so abberations in foliage colou > couldn't be a problem. A problem is that colour of flowers and (even > more) foliage, depends not only on the genotype, but also on the environment > especially light intensity (and low night temperatures?). Another problem is the eventual fading of your color chart! (especially if it is left out in the greenhouse :-) Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 08:30 EST Subject: Cryptogasm, I mean, Cryptogams > Peter, > > It might even make Dactylella or other carnivorous fungi interesting > > to grow. Hell, there are 140 or so carnivorous Cryptograms out > > there > > It is quite a lot more species than that! But I would hesitate to call > fungi cryptogams (if you do not include animals and bacteria in this > taxon). They are more properly classified as derived protists (probably > closer to animals than to plants!). Hmm, I had not thought of this... Fungi though, are often placed in their own kingdom, no? And lichens are usually labelled as cryptogams, even though they are a combination of a fungus (kingdom Fungi) and an alga (kingdom Protista)! Michael ################### From: orchard@geoinfo.tuwien.ac.at (Irene Orchard) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:11:29 -0500 Subject: final call cosit ******************************************** * * * Final Call for Papers * * * * COSIT 95 * * * * Conference on Spatial Information Theory * * * * September 21-23, 1995 * * * * Semmering near Vienna (Austria) * * * ******************************************** Chairs: Andrew U. Frank (Technical University Vienna) Werner Kuhn (Technical University Vienna) David M. Mark (NCGIA, Suny Buffalo) THEME AND TARGET GROUP The second international Conference On Spatial Information Theory, COSIT 95, will concentrate on theoretical aspects of space and spatial information. It will deal with all aspects of "large scale" or "geographic" space and the description of objects, processes or events in it. Spatial information theory is the basis for the construction of Geographic Information Systems (GIS), but also necessary for other uses of geographic information and useful for information system design in general. The use of GIS technology reveals a large number of interesting research questions which require an interdisciplinary approach for their solution. COSIT will bring together researchers from different disciplines, e.g. - Geography - Engineering - Geodesy - Computer Science - Cognitive Sciences - Environmental Psychology - Artificial Intelligence - Administration - History - Sociology The conference organizers welcome all contributions on Spatial Information Theory. An idea of the conference's orientation can be gained from the proceedings of COSIT 93, published by Springer-Verlag, Lecture Notes in Computer Science 716. The following topics are indicative for the field of interest and do not exclude other research areas: - Cognitive structure of space - Social and cultural organization of space - Languages of spatial relations - Structure of geographic information - Time in geographic information - Spatial and temporal reasoning - Quality aspects of geographic information - Treating incomplete or imprecise spatial data - Spatial data integration - Presentation of spatial information - Cartographic generalization - Computational geography - Spatial analysis and modeling - Simulation of processes in geographic space - User interface design - Design of generic elements for GIS interfaces - Metaphors for GIS - Virtual Reality - Cooperative work with spatial information - Administrative and legal processes in space CONFERENCE PROGRAM At the conference, results from recent research will be presented and discussions about work in progress will take place. The conference program will be determined by an international, interdisciplinary scientific committee. Papers will be selected through a rigorous review of full paper contributions and the proceedings will be printed by a major publisher before the conference. Panels will discuss the relevance of research questions and compare possible approaches. Before the conference, Tutorials or Workshops introducing the topics of the conference will be organized, lasting from half a day to two days. Topical Meetings ("birds of a feather sessions") can be organized and proposals from convenors are welcome at any time before or during the conference. A NOTE ON THE SITE The small town of Semmering is a nice mountain resort, only an hour by train from Vienna on the main railway line to the south. It offers a calm and productive conference environment with great views, fresh air, and ample opportunities for outdoor activities. The conference will be held at a beautiful, recently remodeled classical hotel, offering accommodation for approximately $80 in a single and $55 in a double room (including a breakfast buffet). Hotel Panhans Hochstrasse 32 A-2680 Semmering Tel. +43-2664-8181 fax +43-2664-8184-513 =46or reservations at the conference hotel, please contact Hotel Panhans directly. For information and booking of alternative accommodation in the immediate neighborhood, please contact the local tourist office, Tel. +43-2664-2539 or Fax +43-2664-2335. We recommend early booking as the area is quite popular at that time of the year. SUBMISSIONS Papers: Authors are requested to submit full papers, not abstracts, in English to the program chairs in Vienna. The title page of the paper should contain the title, author(s), affiliation(s), the submitting author's mailing address, telephone number, fax number and e-mail address, as well as an abstract. The total length of a paper should be less than 18 pages double spaced (less than 6000 words), including figures and bibliography. The Program Committee will evaluate the papers based on scientific significance, relevance to the conference, novelty, relation to previously published literature, and clarity of presentation. Posters: Proposals for poster presentations should include a title and an extended abstract of up to 1000 words. Tutorials and Workshops: If you are interested in holding a tutorial or workshop, please submit a brief proposal describing the topic, objective, and intended format as soon as possible. So far we have received tentative proposals for tutorials on - Voronoi applications (Chris Gold, Universit=E9 Laval) - Experientialism (David Mark, Suny Buffalo and Andrew Frank, Technical University Vienna) - Spatial Cognition (Stephen Hirtle, University of Pittsburgh) SCHEDULE * Deadline for receiving full papers: March 13, 1995 * Program committee meeting: April 28, 1995 * Information on acceptance sent out: May 2, 1995 * Poster proposals: May 31, 1995 * Papers due in camera-ready form: June 12, 1995 REGISTRATION, FEES AND PAYMENT =46or registration please use the attached form and return it to us (email preferred). The following registration fees cover full participation at the conference, a copy of the proceedings volume, and social events: Payment before June 12, 1995 AS 2640.- (US $ 240) Payment after June 12, 1995 AS 2970.- (US $ 270) Student registration AS 1100.- (US $ 100) Payment is possible by bank transfer to the Austrian bank DIE ERSTE (20111), Account No. 025-63592, or by a personal cheque in U.S. Dollars, drawn on a U.S. bank, made out to Andrew U. Frank. Credit cards can not be accepted. PARTICIPATION AND FURTHER INFORMATION If you intend to participate, present a paper or poster, propose a tutorial or workshop, or suggest a panel, please send us a preliminary title for your contribution together with your name, affiliation, email address, and fax number. Please address all correspondence to: Department of Geoinformation Technical University Vienna Gusshausstrasse 27-29/127 A - 1040 Vienna, Austria Attn.: Irene Orchard Phone: +43 1 58801 3787 fax: +43 1 504 3535 Email: cosit@geoinfo.tuwien.ac.at The conference will be organized primarily by using email. We would greatly appreciate further distribution of this announcement and are particularly grateful for inclusion in newsletters and other outlets. =46or conference up-dates, more information and wayfinding instructions, please access our World-Wide Web server: http://mc4.geoinfo.tuwien.ac.at/Department/cosit.html SCIENTIFIC COMMITTEE Marc Armstrong (USA), Antonio Arnaud (Portugal) Norbert Bartelme (Austria), Patrick Bergougnoux (France) Ralf Bill (Germany), Peter Burrough (The Netherlands) Barbara Buttenfield (USA), Irene Campari (Italy) Kai-Uwe Carstensen (Germany), Shi-Kuo Chang (USA) Jean Paul Cheylan (France), Nick Chrisman (USA) Helen Couclelis (USA), David Cowen (USA) Max Craglia (UK), Costancio Castro (Spain) Leila De Floriani (Italy), Pierre Dumolard (France) Jan Willem van Eck (The Netherlands), Max Egenhofer (USA) Greg Elmes (USA), Carola Eschenbach (Germany) Giacomo Ferrari (Italy), Manfred Fischer (Austria) Ubaldo Formentini (Italy), Wolfgang F=F6rstner (Germany) Georg Franck (Austria), Wm. Randolph Franklin (USA) Christian Freksa (Germany), Chris Gold (Canada) Reg Golledge (USA), Mike Goodchild (USA) Oliver G=FCnther (Germany), Ralph Hartmut G=FCting (Germany) Thanasis Hadzilacos (Greece), Daniel Hernandez (Germany) John Herring (USA), Klaus Hinrichs (Germany) Stephen Hirtle (USA), Erland Jungert (Sweden) Marinos Kavouras (Greece), Fritz Kelnhofer (Austria) Milan Konecny (Czech Republic), Cliff Kottman (USA) Karl Kraus (Austria), Benjamin Kuipers (USA) Robert Laurini (France), Mirjanka Lechthaler (Austria) Duane Marble (USA), Matt McGranaghan (USA) Robert McMaster (USA), Martien Molenaar (The Netherlands) Mark Monmonier (USA), Dan Montello (USA) Jean-Claude Mueller (Germany), John O'Callaghan (Australia) Harlan Onsrud (USA), Peter van Oosterom (The Netherlands) Dimitris Papadias (USA), Giuseppe Pozzana (Italy) Enrico Puppo (Italy), Jan van Roessel (USA) Tapani Sarjakoski (Finland), Matth=E4us Schilcher (Germany) Hansgeorg Schlichtmann (Canada) , Michel Scholl (France) Roberto Scopigno (Italy), Timos Sellis (Greece) Richard Snodgrass (USA), Heinz Stanek (Austria) Joseph Strobl (Austria), Eric Stubkjaer (Denmark) A Min Tjoa (Austria), Andrew Turk (Australia) Barbara Tversky (USA), Michael Wegener (Germany) Robert Weibel (Switzerland), Michael Worboys (UK) *************************************************************************** REGISTRATION FORM Email: cosit@geoinfo.tuwien.ac.at COSIT 95 (Conference on Spatial Information Theory) September 21 - 23, 1995 Semmering near Vienna (Austria) ------------------------------------- Name: Affiliation: Street/P.O.Box: Postcode, City: State/Country: Email: fax: Phone: -------------------------------------- I intend to submit a paper with the preliminary title: I intend to present a poster on: I intend to participate in a tutorial/workshop on: -------------------------------------- Please return the completed registration form to: Email: cosit@geoinfo.tuwien.ac.at Department of Geoinformation Technical University Vienna Gusshausstrasse 27-29/127 A - 1040 Vienna, Austria Attn.: Irene Orchard Phone: +43 1 58801 3787 fax: +43 1 504 3535 *********************************************************** ################### From: Rick Skalsky Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 06:07:23 PST Subject: Your message to CP list about floating pots Hi, Could you tell me a little more about teh Sarracenias in floating pots for pools and the like that you mentioned on the CP list? I'd be interested in details for a small water garden I have. What kind of pots, soil, etc. were used? How did they float? Were they able to pull water from the pond, or just humidity? Any other details are appreciated? What other CP's might do well in similar floating pots? Were they in full sun? Thanks, Rick Skalsky ################### From: "Walter Greenwood" Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:41:41 EST5EDT Subject: Re: D. gigantea from seed? > Does anyone out there have experience growing D. gigantea from seed? > Does it germinate quickly, or does it take 2-3 months with just the > right cold temperatures? Does it do any better with a smoke treatment? The only time I ever sowed D. gigantea, (about 15 years ago) it germinated within a few weeks. However, it never grew big enough to positively ID. The seed came from the CPN seed bank. WG ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 15:42:08 +0100 Subject: Re: Cryptogasm, I mean, Cryptogams Michael, >Hmm, I had not thought of this... Fungi though, are often placed in their own >kingdom, no? Yes. And this is probably the best solution. > And lichens are usually labelled as cryptogams, even though they >are a combination of a fungus (kingdom Fungi) and an alga (kingdom Protista)! This can only rely on their (very) superficial similarity with mosses. Well, cyanobacteria (procaryotes!) have also been classified as algae etc. in the past. Anyway, cryptogams (all "plants" which are not phanerogams) have not always been a clearly defined taxon, and in the broadest (historical) sense the group is obviously paraphyletic. I just want to stress that fungi (and also lichens) should not be classified as plants as long as any distinction between animals and plants is retained (the inclusion of fungi and exclusion of animals would make "plants sensu lato" a paraphyletic group). Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Patrick Cox" Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:29:17 AST Subject: RE: Peter Paul's - collection law On Thu, 2 Feb 1995, Brian Jones wrote: [snip] =>leads me to a question: Is the wild collection of CPs illegal, or =>merely immoral? If the collection of CPs is illegal, is the possession =>of such plants also illegal? If it is immoral, then we need to assert [snip] I think in a recent BEN (Botanical Electronic Newsletter) that was posted here about VFT's, that it was illegal to collect wild VFT's from public lands (Gov't owned, parks, etc.). But it was legal to collect from private property with the owner's permission. This was for NC. I'm not sure about possesion of illegally collect plants. Is there not some consevation law in Georgia for a species of Pitcher Plants, that I've read about here? TTYL, ''' Plant Science Computer Technician Patrick Cox (o o) Nova Scotia Agricultural College ---------------oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------------ If you always postpone pleasure you will never have it. Quit work and play for once. ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 11:04:31 -0500 Subject: Is any one out there? Hi All, Am I coming through? I don't seem to be getting my messages placed on the server. Email me directly at gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu. Also how do I get the CP source lists? Thanks, Ronnie ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 12:01:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: D. gigantea germination and Peter Paul's Hi Folks, Brian Cochran had a very successful method of germinating D. gigantea described in the Dec CPN under Don Schnell's review of the Southeastern CP meeting. For the full protocol send me your snail address and I'll send it out to you. It involved a 24 hr soak in a gibberelic acid solution (1g/L), careful watering, and fungicide treatments. Just my 2 cents about Peter Paul's. I ordered from them many years ago and was unhappy with the size and quality of their plants so I didn't go back. HOWEVER, I believe their plant listing should remain in the archives for the following reason: It gives everyone a way to compare PP's offerings with the other suppliers and if the are unhappy with PP's (as I was) find an alternate source. Just because they are listed doesn't means they are endorsed by the list or *have* to be ordered from. Ask the list for recommendations, that's what we're here for isn't it? *end Peter's Paul's discussion* For new grower's information, field collected plants are bad for many reasons including: -they are more difficult to grow having not been acclimated to greenhouse conditions -they are more likely to contain insect pests or diseases -they may have been collected illegally (increasingly likely as more and more CP are being protected by law) -over collecting has eliminated many CP stands, esp. Venus FT. -how are you going to verify that your plants were not wild collected when the Department of Agriculture agent shows up to investigate field collecting of endangered and protected plants, fine you and/or confiscate those plants that came from a disreputable dealer? Take care! Jeff in North Carolina ################### From: Robert St-Jean Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 12:23:55 -0500 Subject: Wild collected plants for sale Although this does not relate to CP's, since we were on the subject of plants collected from the wild for commercial sale, I'd like to relate some information on the sale of wild collected native orchid species. I have recently attended a lecture given by several orchid conservationists. They claim that native orchid species such as the ladyslipper orchid sold through the mail by commercial growers in Canada is likely to be collected from the wild at some point before distribution. If asked, the grower is likely to claim that the plants are not wild-collected. The conservationists base their claims on the fact that there are no distributors of artificially propagated plants dealing on any large scale in Canada at this time. R.S. ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 03 Feb 95 12:45 EST Subject: Re: BEN What is BEN (Botanical Electronic Newsletter)? Is this a listerv group? What kind of botanical discussions transpire there? How do I subscribe? Thanks, Michael ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:00:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: THE BOOK Greetings all: I have read ALL the archives and I am impressed with how much knowledge exists in this group on the subject of CP s. I also note how scattered this information is and how it cries out for organizing and editing to create a book or manual on everything we know about CP s in an efficient and easily retrieved form. This would be the ultimate FAQ resource for CPs. I must be out of my mind but I am willing to be the editor of such an undertaking IF THERE IS GENERAL SUPPORT for this activity. I would assume that we would eventually maintain an electronic copy of this work in the archives. Ok Rick? It would be a living, growing, document and take a long time to compile. I do not have the know-how to write this myself, I am only offering to organize and edit your contributions. I have done/am doing this for aquatic plants in BC so I know what I am getting in for. IF there is support for this I will post some suggested chapter headings for comment and start press-ganging certain people for certain tasks. Comments please. Should I forget this or is there any interest?-Pat. Please use the subject heading THE BOOK for discussion/contributions on this topic. ################### From: NBS/Haleakala Field Station Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 08:49:49 -1000 Subject: Re: CP digest 245 > Regarding the practices of various nurseries such as Peter Paul's. I > believe we should be able to express our like or dislike of any > distributor. However, in a litigious society there could be > legal ramifications if accusations are made that they engage in illegal > practices. I am not a lawyer so I don't claim to understand all the > intricacies of this. I believe the safest way to post messages would be > limiting it to personal testimonies of poor service. Let the group > "read-between-the-lines" as to whether this indicates illegal > environmental practices. A company could rape the environment and provide excellent service, or vice versa. Try not to get sued, but REAL INFO on solicitations of field-collected plants/etc. are the kind of info that it's really hard to come by and very valuable. Thanks to all--including to the above poster-- for expressing concerns, viewpoints, and sharing info. -Philip Thomas ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:36:16 -0500 Subject: Re: error messages I have had some weird error messages come back lately. Would someone post back if I am getting through to the group. Thanks, Tom in Florida, looking for my voice ################### From: Robert St-Jean Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 15:49:56 -0500 Subject: Re: error messages -Reply Loud and clear in Ottawa. ################### From: HStevenC@aol.com Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 16:25:06 -0500 Subject: Re: error messages I got your message. Steven Coonrod ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 15:30:23 -0800 Subject: Re: THE BOOK You wrote: > >Greetings all: I have read ALL the archives and I am impressed with how much >knowledge exists in this group on the subject of CP s. I also note how >scattered this information is and how it cries out for organizing and editing >to create a book or manual on everything we know about CP s in .......>>>>>>>>S N I P<<<<<<<<.......... It sounds Great to me and I would be glad to help. My I suggest that several formats be used. For example, for our windows users, a win help format would be very useful, (hypertext etc.). Again, I would be glad to help out. John -- ################### From: Adolf Ceska Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:28:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: BEN > What is BEN (Botanical Electronic Newsletter)? BEN is an electronic newsletter which deals with botanical topics, especially those related to the Pacific Northwest of North America (California to Alaska). I try to include a good deal of general topics that are of interest to people from outside of that geographical area. > Is this a listerv group? I am trying to put it of listserv, but at this moment I manage the mailing list by myself. > What kind of botanical discussions transpire there? BEN is an electronic journal, not a discussion list. Past issues of BEN are archived on gopher vifa1.freenet.victoria.bc.ca and you can go through them there. Choose 4/ Environment and then 4/Botany on the gopher menus. > How do I subscribe? If you want to subscribe or unsubscribe, write me at aceska@freenet.victoria.bc.ca I will put your name on my mailing list and you can see if you want to stay on. There are about 430 BEN subscribers at this moment. BEN is also posted on the USENET in bionet.plants. > > Thanks, > Michael Thank YOU for the interest in BEN Adolf ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 19:00:37 -0700 (MST) Subject: CP FAQ/Book I would love to have a FAQ or book based on the knowledge of the growers on this list. Most of the CP books I have offer little reliable information on CP growing. Cultivation sheets are offered for orchid growers through the internet and various clubs and they seem to be well liked. Why not have our own? I'm certainly eager for something like that. The orchid sheets list info for temperature, light, water, humidity, fertilizing, and potting. I recommend that measurements be as specific as allowable (i.e., light measurements in Lumens or Foot-candles). Given percenatges seems meaningless to me. 25% shade in London I doubt would the same as in Denver. Relative humidity could be determined with a hygrometer. I would also recommend adding a section for growing the plants from seed (something absent from the orchid sheet due to the fact that orchids are extraordinarily difficult --if not impossible-- to grow that way). Well, that's my $.02. :) John ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sat, 04 Feb 1995 01:49:44 GMT Subject: oops 'cyanoacrylate' - probably not... Wim points out: >Peter, > >> Utrics and similar plants, while keeping a tidy tray, would be >> to grow them in those cyanoacrylate beer glasses that seem to be > -^^^^^^^^^^^^^- > Are you shure about this? > Cyanoacrylate is the glue that wil harden in a few seconds when brought in > narrow capillairs and when in contact with some humidity. > It is sold everywhere for years now and it isn't quite healthy. > Could be that beer drinkers are resistent.. :-) Oh dear, no I don't think I did mean cyanoacrylate. In my defence I can only plead that I am no chemist :-) I think I probably mean acrylic ( or perspex, or ummm, something like they make motorcycle helmet visors out of...? ) Happy growing, Peter ( now, if I could only get this beer glass off...:) Peter Cole |carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk| Unexplained mystery #527 - Why Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | cats prefer drosera to catfood? And a big THANKS to all who came up with all that good lighting advice... ################### From: maxd@computek.net Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 21:22:11 -0800 Subject: Re: A plant order Tom (& Krissy), I sent you an order, perhaps you have it now. I was in Kansas City when I sent it and kind of in a hurry, and I wanted to confirm to you my address: Max Dahlgren 1401 Treeline Dr. Desoto, Texas 75115 Hope all is well, and I hope to hear from you soon. Max ################### From: davin.stewart@factory.com (Davin Stewart) Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:56:00 -0500 Subject: D. falconeri GR>Recently you posted to the CP list that you had a thriving D. GR>falconeri. What are the growing conditions you have it in: light, GR>humidity, temperature, soil mix, etc? Believe it or not, I've got it growing on my windowsill. I've got it potted in a peat/perlite (2:1) mixture. To ensure high humidity I covered the pot with the bottom of a plastic soda bottle. It gets about 2 hours of direct sunlight a day and I water it whenever I see the soil get dry (usually not more than once a week). I was a little concerned about putting a plant in an semi-enclosed container in direct sunlight, but it seems that the petiolaris complex like things hot. BTW, I've found that my _Cephalotus_ likes these conditions as well. I'm trying to propagate this thing via leaf cuttings, hopefully I'll have enough to trade sometime. Davin --- . SLMR 2.1a . ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 10:43:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: TC media A while back someone posted a message about what TC medium to use for different species of CP. I was wondering if someone could post it again, or if they could send it to my email account so as not to clutter up the listserver. I would appreciate it. Christoph eheick@acs.bu.edu ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 10:45:41 -0500 Subject: Re: error messages -Reply Fine in California! ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 11:22:59 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 244 to: eheick@acs.bu.edu Re: B. Bednars spps. Sumatra Dear Christoph< I do not know to which plant you refer, if you could send a photo (if you are in possession of the plant) I may be able to I.D. it. However, the Sumatran species are in a big mess taxinomically, the American growers often have one name, the Germans another, etc. I have three plants all labeled pectinata and none are similar. Whether this is species variation or individual species I haven't a clue. I do have at least one unnamed lowland weedy plant from Sumata that so far defies I.D. , it may be a gracilis hybrid but can't I.D. the other parent. Anyway if you want to send a photo: Cliff Dodd c/o The Aku Tiki Inn 2225 S. Atlantic Ave. Daytona Beach, FL 32118 Good Growing! ################### From: Brian Cochran Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 12:03:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Introduction I recently saw my name in a posting on the CP list and thought it was time to introduce myself. My name is Brian Cochran and I was mentioned in a letter about using Gibberellic acid to start Drosera Gigantea seeds. The article was actually about using Gibb acid to start Byblis Gigantea seeds. First, I must admit I was a little surprised as to how detailed my method was described in the newsletter since I had submitted the same information in my own article to the CPN to be published in March 1995. Nonetheless, I have added some improvements this year to the technique which have yielded a near 100% success rate of germinating and growing Byblis Giganteas to maturity (well as mature as they can get in 2-3 months which is the critical time for these plants.) These improvements will appear in the March article. (I have to add: Please no inquiries. I am growing these plants to get enough seed to send out to the seed bank and to others who can possibly duplicate this success. I already know of one person who has followed this technique and now has several plants in his collection! Maybe he will post his comments.) About the tuberous drosera, Allen Lowrie told me that they take from 90 to 120 days to germinate. Which has pretty much proven true. I sow mine in pots and leave them out all Spring and Summer with the other CP and during the cool of the Fall and early winter they begin to germinate. And yes, you can use Gibb acid as a treatment for any hard to germinate plants. I have dripped what I had left from the Byblis plantings on stubborn seeds and soon after obtained germination (i.e. Drosera Cistiflora.) But I'll leave that subject for others to write about. After 15 years of burning hundreds of Byblis Gigantea seeds and being very disappointed (like so many others) I believe I've hit on a fairly reliable technique of starting these beauties (and honestly there's nothing new here. Just a path as it were...) My goal is to see Byblis Giganteas (and all the new wonderful forms of Byblis Liniflora) commonplace in CP collections. Brian C. ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 18:58:49 +0100 Subject: Re: THE BOOK-WWW Pat and the rest of virtual & material cp world, WE NEED YOU (and your $.02)! (...) >and how it cries out for organizing and editing >to create a book or manual on everything we know about CP s in an efficient >and easily retrieved form. This would be the ultimate FAQ resource for CPs. Yes, indeed. As a prodromus for such a book, the www page has been installed. The information retrievable from this is until now rather incomplete, and any contribution is most cordially invited. In Germany, the local cp society GFP has started a monographing project ("Merkblaetter & Monographien", M&M) collecting available information on cp. The work is organized in such a way that individual authors "adopt" one or several species and try to find answers to a catalog of questions. After some discussion of input formats and required information, a standardized monograph framework was designed (available from Wolfram Diester or from myself). Together with Rick and Barry, an English version of this framework was created. I may send a copy of which to anyone interested. Presently, about 20 species of various genera are dealt with by members of the GFP. This work is co-ordinated and edited by Wolfram Diester, and I have seen some really encouraging output already (monographs on _Drosera rotundifolia_ and _Nepenthes khasiana_). The first printing (in German) is scheduled for this year. In future it is planned to translate the monographs (or better to write them in English already) and to create a link between GFP and www. It would of course be fine if further monographers could be recruited from any place on this planet. I think already a few English monographs would be sufficient to convince the (until now exclusively) German authors that there is some need to "internationalize" the project. > I must be out of my mind but I am willing to be the editor of such an >undertaking IF THERE IS GENERAL SUPPORT for this activity. As there are editors for the various activities already in operation (GFP-M&M: Wolfram Diester, and www page: Rick Walker), it is not further editors who are needed but contributors! > I would assume >that we would eventually maintain an electronic copy of this work in the >archives. Ok Rick? It would be a living, growing, document and take a long >time to compile. This does exist already: the cp www home page. So general structures for input are ready. What we need now is input. We have an index, several pictures (Andreas und Joachim: wo sind Eure Bilder? Die Welt braucht sie!), two keys, and an article on _Darlingtonia_ (Christine: could this perhaps be expanded into a monograph?) as a start, but I think much more is possible. I am going to publish a key for the whole genus _Drosera_ soon, and this will be included in the web page afterwards. Keys for _Sarraceniaceae_, _Genlisea_ and _Utricularia_ can be extracted from literature and adapted to the needs of the web page. I think it is possible to construct a preliminary key for (the rapidly growing genus) _Pinguicula_. Perhaps someone in the IPSG would be interested? A _Nepenthes_ monograph for Flora Malesiana is forthcoming, and some of the information from which could be used, too (how about you, Matthew and Martin?). As the work is organized by taxa, and my nomenclatural synopsis is an index to the files on the web page, authors do not need to bother with nomenclature (if they want to, however, they are invited). For the time being, M&M monographs do contain a short diagnosis of the taxon covered. As soon as keys are available for all genera (and this should be possible within one year, perhaps two for _Nepenthes_...), these diagnoses will of course be superfluous. Further ideas and especially INPUT are welcome! Kind regards Jan PS: Do not ask what the web page could do for you, but ask yourself what you can contribute to the web page! ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 13:23:17 -0800 Subject: Re: TC media You wrote: > >A while back someone posted a message about what TC medium to use for >different species of CP. I was wondering if someone could post it again, or >if they could send it to my email account so as not to clutter up the >listserver. I would appreciate it. > >Christoph >eheick@acs.bu.edu > > > I've missed quite a bit of mail recently, but I posted my favorite medium for vft GERMINATION: 1/2 strength MS Salts, full strength minimal organics, 100mg/l Casien, 100mg/l inositol, 30000 mg/l sucrose and 7 g/l agar Ph at 5.9 Replate medium as above but with 0.2 mg/l NAA and 5.0 mg/l 2iP. This is a good starting point for Pings,Sundews and Pitchers. If anyone one is interested in a standing liquid medium for the permenant cultivation of Utrics in vitro, let me know and I'll post it in the archive. John -- ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 13:27:46 -0800 Subject: Re: THE BOOK-WWW You wrote: > >Pat and the rest of virtual & material cp world, > >WE NEED YOU (and your $.02)! > >(...) >>and how it cries out for organizing and editing >>to create a book or manual on everything we know about CP s in an efficient >>and easily retrieved form. This would be the ultimate FAQ resource for CPs. > >Yes, indeed. > >As a prodromus for such a book, the www page has been installed. The >information retrievable from this is until now rather incomplete, and any >contribution is most cordially invited. > >In Germany, the local cp society GFP has started a monographing project >("Merkblaetter & Monographien", M&M) collecting available information on >cp. The work is organized in such a way that individual authors "adopt" one >or several species and try to find answers to a catalog of questions. After >some discussion of input formats and required information, a standardized >monograph framework was designed (available from Wolfram Diester or from >myself). Together with Rick and Barry, an English version of this framework >was created. I may send a copy of which to anyone interested. > >Presently, about 20 species of various genera are dealt with by members of >the GFP. This work is co-ordinated and edited by Wolfram Diester, and I >have seen some really encouraging output already (monographs on _Drosera >rotundifolia_ and _Nepenthes khasiana_). The first printing (in German) is >scheduled for this year. >an > >PS: Do not ask what the web page could do for you, but ask yourself what >you can contribute to the web page! > > > > Count me in, I'll collect all the TC literature sources I have, scan them and send them to you. Also, I can provide photos literature, anything you want. Let me know what I can do. John -- ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 13:30:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP digest 246 Pat - a wongerful idea. imho. I suggest that you work it into a web page, as this is the most versitle internet resource and is cutting edge technology. Cheers, Phil ################### From: John Taylor Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 11:39:43 +1100 Subject: Utric descriptions wanted (urgent!!) Can someone post me (brief) descriptions of the following Utricularia species please? I'm mainly interested in the size & colour of the flowers. I think they're all South American (most from Brazil): U. hispida U. laxa U. pusilla U. simulans U. species "Taylor 17003 (K)" in the Genus Utric. page 104 U. tridentata Has anyone grown these (or similar S.American species) from seed sucessfully? The seed I'm looking at comes from Allen Lowrie in Western Australia. Any other info regarding these & similar species (eg. U. alpina & U. endresii) would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 01:53:47 GMT Subject: cryptogams... Jan Schlauer writes: >Peter, >> It might even make Dactylella or other carnivorous fungi interesting >> to grow. Hell, there are 140 or so carnivorous Cryptograms out >> there > > It is quite a lot more species than that! But I would hesitate to call > fungi cryptogams (if you do not include animals and bacteria in this > taxon). They are more properly classified as derived protists (probably > closer to animals than to plants!). I must confess to some ignorance in matters taxonomical - I had been looking at the table in Marcel Lecoufle's book which includes these as cryptograms (sic). As the spelling amd the 19th century illustration hardly inspire confidence, I guess he is either out of date or just plain wrong... or is this part of a lumpers/splitters- type disagreement? I'm not quite sure what a 'derived protist' is, but does this mean fungal cells are endowed with nucleii? Happy growing, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | a trifle confused... Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 02:33:48 GMT Subject: Re: THE BOOK Sounds an excellent idea - I'm not going to have as much free time as previously for a few months ( finally got a job - well sort of, :) but I'd be glad to help out if I can. Happy growing, Peter Peter Cole |carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk| planted all my weeds in 1 pot - Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | what the hell, live & let live... ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 00:00:22 GMT Subject: wintering sarracenias John Rising writes: > First I want to thank everyone for their feedback on dormancy and feeding > of carnivorous plants. It appears I will be using my basement more next > winter for storage. I have not chosen to put them outside because the > winters in Colorado can have temperatures of -10 or more (although this > winter has been amazingly mild). Sounds like Wales - we've had 3 or 4 nights down to -11C ( I assume you're using centigrade? ) Last year we had a cold snap that went down to -15C for a few nights - my Sarracenias were fine outdoors ( except leucophylla, ) in pots and larger bowls. X catesbaei, purpurea, flava, X ( alata x flava 'maxima') and several mixed hybrids of dubious parentage - all winter perfectly well outdoors. I suppose if you were worried you could bubblewrap the pots, but I don't bother and I haven't lost one yet. I'd worry about light in a basement ( though I guess they're pretty dormant... ) Happy growing, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | the terrariums are breeding... ################### From: arthur_lauffenburger@macsys.amaranth.com Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 05:03:00 GMT Subject: Nepenthes Dear Jan, et al., Please excuse the typo, I try very hard to make sure that I donUt mispell names, mine is brutally mangled repeatedly; but my fat fingers are too big for the keys. I had no idea that anything I was doing was duplication, and I SINCERELY hope IUm not stepping on anyoneUs toes; itUs just that there are NO monographs on the genus Nepenthes out there, definitely none in print, and the journals, forgive me, are difficult to get when you live in a town like this (Pensacola) and are not affiliated with a University. I applaud your listing of the CP. Truly a phenominal work! My project #1 has been to establish priority and duplication in naming of the Nepenthes hybrids in cultivation and of record, the project became a little difficult when I came to realize that there are so many disagreements as to the exact number of and names of the species. IUm truly at a loss. Perhaps you can clue me in as to the current accepted list of Nepenthes species. CAUTION, if you do this on the Net, IUm sure it will offer the same result as letting loose a cat among the pigeons. (forgive me, at this time IUm not comfortable using the RquoteS feature of replying. N. burkei is a HYBRID? well there goes the edit mode again! Yes Kevin, itUs a chore. but IUm not giving up yet! Phil - the capitalized name following a (normally) italicized species epithet was intended to be the author. I do however believe in the use of capitalization for hybrid names, unless with respect to a natural hybrid that is questionable as to possible species status, at which point I normally use the RxS before an italicized name. IUm merely trying to adopt as many of the standard rules of nomenclature, as put forth by the RHS, as I can. My reason for project # 2 was to help me to visualize some of the parents of the hybrids, and realize what were the dominant characteristics that were passed on to progeny With no complete monograph available, I set about trying to compile one myself: inre. M. Cheek and M. Jebb, if they are creating that monograph, BRAVO!, please hurry, and how can it be made available to someone such as myself in rural North Florida? Jan, how can I get a recent copy of your synopsis? do you have it on 3 1/2 inch disk in text file, any format? if so my Rsnail mailS address is: P.O. Box 31, Gulf Breeze, FL 32562-0031 USA. I would welcome with enormous gratitude the xeroxed descriptions of the 25 or for that matter text-file of them if possible, although I realize it may be a lot to ask. Realize, please, that this is my second day ever using a modem, and that I donUt understand everything yet, (By the way, Welcome Cliff Dodd!), perhaps these can be sent to my E-Mail? For those of you that might also be interested, IUm really quite charged up about the creation of this RGuide to Nepenthes HybridsS, and am trying desperately to get it finished, I think it is a long time in coming, but I must ask you to be patient, I tried sending out copies (PO$TAGE!!!), to those that said they would like to help, but with few exceptions, (BIG THANK YOUUs to them), I received few replies, few thank youUs, little ASSISTANCE, it seems that most people merely wanted another addition to their libraries. TNuff said. The previous was not meant to sound sour, sorry if it does. It also CERTAINLY does NOT apply to those people that I sent copies to unsolicited, most of which were VERY gracious, thank you again. Good growing Arthur Lauffenburger ################### From: amoeba@cix.compulink.co.uk (Howard Osborn) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 14:40 GMT Subject: INTRODUCTION Hello - I'm Howard, and I live in a very rainy part of the north of England called Rossendale in Lancashire. I've been lurking for a few days and felt that it was time to speak out. Firstly let me say that as far as plants are concerned my main interest to date have been cacti - but this mailing is firing my interest for carniverous plants, which only really needed a small nudge to get it going. So what advice would you give to an absolute beginner? Propagation from seed is one of my keenest interests- which carniverous plants would survive the fumblings of a newcomer? Any and all advice would be gratefully received. I also have some spare cacti seed if anyone would like it. Thanks, Howard O. ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 16:20:13 +0100 Subject: Re: THE BOOK-WWW John & ALL, >Count me in, I'll collect all the TC literature sources I have, scan >them and send them to you. Also, I can provide photos literature, >anything you want. Great! But please do not send the material to me but to our master Rick. If you want to supply general info, this could certainly be linked some way with the archives or the web page. About picture formats, please consult Rick directly. >Let me know what I can do. If you have info on or if you are interested in a specific taxon (or few taxa) of cp, it would be especially welcome if you could decide to do the compilation job of a monograph. In this case I would send you the framework (a rather long file), so your input is in conformity with the other contributions. This framework does in no way mean you have to find info on *all* topics (this is simply impossible for most taxa), it should rather help you to arrange the information in a standardized form. Use the framework as a checklist, and submit your monograph to Rick as soon as no further additions (from literature available to you or from your own experience) seem possible. A monographer (monograph author) does not need to be the world expert in the specific taxon covered, he/she should only spend some time (this is perhaps the most critical factor) compiling information (mainly from literature or from the world expert...) on that taxon. Correct citation is of course a prerequisite for this work. Users of the web page will see if they can supply some further information as soon as the first version of the monograph is accessible. These users may then contact Rick (who will inform the author) or the author of the monograph directly, and the monograph can be augmented by the author this way. The obvious advantage of this procedure is that the author always keeps control over the monograph, and he can be consulted for further information (original literature, etc.). I will post the names of the taxa already dealt with by the GFP-M&M project in one of my next messages. It seems sensible that each species is monographed by only one author. But there is no reason to worry yet: a few species (=approx. 500) are still left for anyone interested! This all may sound like science fiction, but I have really seen some (fine) output already, and it does work! The intended book can only be as good as the input supplied by you all. Kind regards and thank you for your help! Jan ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 16:21:35 +0100 Subject: Re: cryptogams... Peter, > these as cryptograms (sic). As the spelling amd the 19th century > illustration hardly inspire confidence, I guess he is either out of > date or just plain wrong... or is this part of a lumpers/splitters- > type disagreement? The concept is rather out of date (& the spelling is a misprint). > I'm not quite sure what a 'derived protist' is, but does this > mean fungal cells are endowed with nucleii? Fungi should be addressed as an own kingdom derived from protist ancestors +/- directly without having taken the "plant" way. They have nuclei (protists have nuclei, too). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Rick Skalsky Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 08:30:11 PST Subject: 2 questions regarding sources 1. Where in the USA might one get a hold of gibberelic (sp.) acid? 2. Where in the USA might one get a hold of TC supplies? Anyone know of a catalog of TC chemicals and supplies? Thanks much. Rick Skalsky ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 09:18:14 -0800 Subject: Re: 2 questions regarding sources You wrote: > > >1. Where in the USA might one get a hold of gibberelic (sp.) acid? > >2. Where in the USA might one get a hold of TC supplies? Anyone know of >a catalog of TC chemicals and supplies? > >Thanks much. > >Rick Skalsky > > Aldrich Chemical Supply P.O. Box 355 Milwaukee WI 53201 -Chemicals,Equipment,Supplies Sigma Chemical Company P.O. Box 14508 St. Louis MO 63178 -Chemicals,Media,Equipment,Supplies These are the two companies I use. Introduce yourself to them as a "Professional" or they may not sell to you. They have an extensive list of materials, not just Plant TC but everything. With what they offer you could easily make Plastique or Nerve Gas or just about any Terrorist Type weapon. For this reason they are selective as to who they sell to and what they sell. Regards to all, John -- ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 09:53:52 +0100 Subject: Re: THE BOOK-WWW taxa Dear prospective monograph authors, Here is the list of taxa already monographed by GFP-M&M activists: _Sarracenia purpurea_ _Drosophyllum lusitanicum_ _Dionaea muscipula_ _Drosera anglica_ _D.capensis_ _D.intermedia_ _D.regia_ _D.rotundifolia_ _Nepenthes distillatoria_ _N.khasiana_ _N.madagascariensis_ _N.masoalensis_ _N.pervillei_ _Pinguicula agnata_ _P.alpina_ _P.esseriana_ _P.gypsicola_ _P.rotundiflora_ _P.vulgaris_ _Genlisea glabra_ _Utricularia australis_ _U.bremii_ _Utricularia gibba_ _U.intermedia_ _U.minor_ _U.ochroleuca_ _U.vulgaris_ Kind regards Jan ################### From: =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCOWIwZiEhOHkbKEI=?= Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 00:10:00 +0900 Subject: RE:Utric descriptions wanted (urgent!!!) Dear Mr.John Taylor, You wrote: >Any other info regarding these & similar species (eg. U. alpina & U. endresii ) >would be greatly apprecianted. Now in my greenhouse, Utric hybrid (U.alpina x endresii) is blooming. May I send a few photos to you? Now in my friend's greenhouse(in Japan), maybe U.simulans is still blooming. Barry-san: How do you like your Utrics? Kind regards from Japan Isao Takai BXA04262@niftyserve.or.jp ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 09:33:03 -0600 (CST) Subject: Flowering pings The first of my pings to flower has proven itself to be _P.caerulea_ beyond any shadow of a doubt. I was amazed that the flower has lasted such a long time, but as long as it decides to remain, I'm not going to complain. Now I come to a slightly different problem. The second one--which I also thought was _P.caerulea_ has not fully opened yet, but it is obvious that it is going to have white flowers. I never knew there was a white-flowered version of this plant, although in every other respect the structure is the same. The only other noticeable difference is the height of the scape. In the _P.caerulea_, it is close to a foot in height, but the newer one is less than half that. I considered that it could be _P.ionantha_, since that is one of the few white flowered pings I've seen listed, but I've not seen this one in bloom. Any ideas? ################### From: shlam@hkueee.hku.hk (LAM Shing) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 23:48:07 --800 Subject: Drosera oblanceolata? A friend of mine hiked the other day and found some sundews that looks similar to locally common Drosera spatulata, but the leaves of the former is noticeably longer and the leaves are not growing close to the ground as spat does. I found Drosera oblanceolata listed in Jan's list and would like to know more about it. Thanks in advance. --- Shing LAM shlam@hkueee.hku.hk Dept. of EEE, HKU, Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 18:09:06 GMT+1 Subject: Re: TC media > I've missed quite a bit of mail recently, but I posted my favorite > medium for vft GERMINATION: 1/2 strength MS Salts, full strength minimal > organics, 100mg/l Casien, 100mg/l inositol, 30000 mg/l sucrose and 7 g/l > agar Ph at 5.9 > Replate medium as above but with 0.2 mg/l NAA and 5.0 mg/l 2iP. > > This is a good starting point for Pings,Sundews and Pitchers. I once used MS with Nepenthes and it worked but finally learned that Knudsen gave me far better result though it's quite poor (...maybe because it's poor???). All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:28:52 +0100 Subject: Re: Drosera oblanceolata? Dear Shing LAM, >I found Drosera oblanceolata listed in Jan's list and would like to >know more about it. _D.oblanceolata_ is a species so far known only from and endemic to mountain regions in SE China (i.e. it has not yet been found in Hong Kong, but it is perhaps not completely impossible). It is related to _D.spatulata_ but it differs from this and other relatives in the repeatedly divided styles (the related Chinese species have the 3 styles basally bifurcate but there is no further division between this primary one and the stigma). Leaf forms are *very variable* in the collective species _D.spatulata_ (consisting of many local "races" which are nevertheless rather uniform in floral details). In the other related species the leaf lamina is not longer than broad. In _D.oblanceolata_ leaf laminae are (from obovate to) oblanceolate (to oblong). >(...) and the leaves are not growing close to the ground as spat does. Judging from RUANs illustrations (in the protologue of _D.oblanceolata_ and in "Flora reipublicae popularis sinicae"), the leaves of _D.oblanceolata_ are growing +/- close to the ground (+/- like in _D.spatulata_). So this may not be too conclusive. Please try to examine (microscope or hand lens recommended) the flowers (especially the styles). Hong Kong would be a very interesting supplement to the known range of _D.oblanceolata_. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Harry Dewey Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:03:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: Announcement of a New Electronic Mailing List on Rock Gardening The Rock Gardening Journal an Electronic Mailing List on Rock Gardening, Dwarf and Alpine Plants, including Their Botany Editor: Harry Dewey, 4605 Brandon Lane, Beltsville MD 20705 USA, member NARGS. harryd@capaccess.org 301 937-1446 Fax: 301 595-5468 (by appointment) The RGJ seeks a home in a listserv or other automated environment. It hopes for sponsorship by NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society). As the name "JOUR"nal implies, it will be updated daily (assuming there are postings by subscribers), beginning February 7, 1995. There is no charge for subscribing; it's free. Unless author-contributors specifically claim copyright, the act of posting is assumed to convey permission to reproduce the posted material. Please don't post published material that has been copyrighted for sale, i. e. for commercial distribution. Send all postings (questions, answers, articles or letters) to: harryd@capaccess.org To subscribe, send the message SUBSCRIBE RGJ To unsubscribe, send the message CANCEL RGJ ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 16:06:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Flowering pings >The first of my pings to flower has proven itself to be _P.caerulea_ >beyond any shadow of a doubt. I was amazed that the flower has lasted >such a long time, but as long as it decides to remain, I'm not going >to complain. >Now I come to a slightly different problem. The second one--which I >also thought was _P.caerulea_ has not fully opened yet, but it is >obvious that it is going to have white flowers. I never knew there >was a white-flowered version of this plant, although in every other >respect the structure is the same. The only other noticeable >difference is the height of the scape. In the _P.caerulea_, it is >close to a foot in height, but the newer one is less than half that. >I considered that it could be _P.ionantha_, since that is one of the >few white flowered pings I've seen listed, but I've not seen this one >in bloom. Any ideas? Hi, I too have seen _P. caerulea_ flowering white in the wild. I mentioned this to a friend who grows pings and he also said he had never seen a white flowered _P. caerulea_. Could this be possibly a mutant that has not yet been described? If so what are the chances of producing a white flowered version in a natural population. Just a thought. Ronnie ################### From: Kay.Klier@uni.edu Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 16:50:50 -0600 (CST) Subject: Ronnie wrote: > I too have seen _P. caerulea_ flowering white in the wild. >I mentioned this to a friend who grows pings and he also said he had never >seen a white flowered _P. caerulea_. Could this be possibly a mutant that >has not yet been described? If so what are the chances of producing a >white flowered version in a natural population. Just a thought. The mutation from colored to white flowers is probably the most common color mutation in flowers: white flowers to colored flowers would be much more "difficult", and therefore rarer. Floral pigments are produced by a chain of biochemical reactions, and a mutation in any of the enzymes responsible can stop pigment production, giving white flowers. Kay Klier klier@cobra.uni.edu ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:58:49 -0800 Subject: Re: TC media You wrote: JoHN: >> I've missed quite a bit of mail recently, but I posted my favorite >> medium for vft GERMINATION: 1/2 strength MS Salts, full strength minimal >> organics, 100mg/l Casien, 100mg/l inositol, 30000 mg/l sucrose and 7 g/l >> agar Ph at 5.9 >> Replate medium as above but with 0.2 mg/l NAA and 5.0 mg/l 2iP. >> >> This is a good starting point for Pings,Sundews and Pitchers. ANDREAS: >I once used MS with Nepenthes and it worked but finally learned that Knudsen gave >me far better result though it's quite poor (...maybe because it's poor???). I must confess, nepenthes have always been rough for me, what were you trying to do, callus, embryogenesis, single node...etc? I've not persued it fully, but when I was doing Nepenthes, I had good results with both Ringe and Nitsch(1968) and Nitsch and Nitsch (1969)modified with common sense to prune out some of the extra salts. Did you use the Morel modification of Knudson C? I prefer this becasue of the excess Ca in the original formula. What we really need to do is find a surefire way to eliminate polyphenolic blackening and the native filth that Nepenthes seem to carry. Then if some kind soul with a lot of space and time would run a broad spectrum experiment a la de Fossard, we'd be set. John -- ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 16:11:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: the book I received number of positive responses both privately and on the net to my CP book idea but there appears to be another group already involved in a similar, but not identical project, who may be understandably loath to duplicate efforts. I wish that this other work had been well known on the net since I was not aware of it or I would not have made my suggestion. I am still open to suggestions but it does not look to me like there is general support for this book idea as is, but rather an invitation to contribute to the other project. I am therefore of the opinion that I should withdraw the proposal. I will probably continue to collect cp data for my own use in the format I had in mind but without full support it will not be the kind of document it could be. Perhaps the results of this other project will fill the same data gap niche in the end. Thanks for the support some of you offered. Pat. ################### From: kby@alumni.caltech.edu (Kimo B. Yap) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 17:13:19 -0800 Subject: Aldrich & Sigma For what it's worth Aldrich and Sigma are different parts of the same company. They sell specialty chemicals. They're the usual place you go to if you're doing chemical research in a lab. On the other hand, their stuff is not normally mean for pharmaceutical uses (except basic research) and they do have varying grades of stuff. Their cataloges are each about 4-5 inches thick (and about maybe 6x8. If you want to see one, go to any nearby research university's chemistry department.-kby ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 21:19:04 +0500 XSubject: Aldrich & Sigma Reply-To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Ronnie wrote: > I too have seen _P. caerulea_ flowering white in the wild. >I mentioned this to a friend who grows pings and he also said he had never >seen a white flowered _P. caerulea_. Could this be possibly a mutant that >has not yet been described? If so what are the chances of producing a >white flowered version in a natural population. Just a thought. The above mentioned plant has been formally described, and is known as: _P. caerulea var. leucantha_ (if my memory serves me correctly......) I found a similar plant and Ron Gagliardo was kind enough to send me a copy of the article that described the plant. Unfortunately, the article is two hours away at my parent's house at the moment, so therefore I can not confirm my spelling etc. -Tom- (& Krissy) ################### From: SteveB4706@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 22:17:14 -0500 Subject: Andreas Andreas, I have try both email address but they keep coming back. What is your address? Steve Baker ################### From: bosco@interaccess.com (Doug Bosco) Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:56:07 -0600 Subject: RE: PETER PAULS >BO>I'll agree with this. I also had a bad experience with Peter >Paul's. It BO>involved a dead Drosera which he wouldn't take back. He >said it was in BO>hibernation. I said it was deceased, ceased to be, >it was a DEAD Drosera (it > >Your message does not contain enough information for anyone to be of >help to you - what species was it that he said was in hybernation? You >mentioned questionable VFTs - what was the question? Without that >information, the message is just saying, "yeah, me too". > >ps I don't mean to pick on you - it is just that, of 52 personal >messages (this includes messages forwarded from echoes such as the CP >group), nearly half are repetitions of complaints about Peter Pauls; >while valuable to know, it can wear thin after awhile when there is no >other information of value in the missive. My message was simply a me-too message meant to warn others of bad experiences in the CP field. I'm a novice to this field and as most novices, quite naive. It doesn't reflect well on other merchants in a field when one merchant does not treat their customers with respect. And as for keeping a merchant with a bad reputation on a merchant's list you are asking for trouble with newbies such as myself who may need assistance in finding a reputable merchant. Should't providing information (good or bad) about merchants be a function of this group? Or should we practice self-censorship? :-((( As for the Drosera. It was a Drosera dichotoma which was quite black. I planted it anyway and absolutely nothing happened (it didn't move a muscle) and it soon rotted away. As for the VFTs, I tried tender loving care with lots of light but they didn't budge and soon joined the dichotoma in CP Heaven (one of them was there when I got it). I live in an apartment where growing CPs or any other plant is tough enough without having assistance from someone who should help. Merchants in any business should realize that they could make alot more money by being helpful to their customers (Re: Walmart). Doug Bosco (bosco@interaccess.com) ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:03:25 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Andreas > Andreas, > > I have try both email address but they keep coming back. > > What is your address? > > Steve Baker Hello Steve, none of my adresses has changed but both are sometimes down :-(. I hope to have a new one soon :-) All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Inet: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 10:02:58 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Flowering pings Dear Ronny, you can realy find sometimes white - flowered Pinguicula in the wild; the same phenomen I have seen at some very few plants of P. leptoceras in Austria. At CP's I know this phenomen also from several other species, like P. moranensis ('alba'), Byblis gigantea, Drosera capensis ..... , it's a genetic defect like albinos at humans. Bye Joe N. ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 04:05:27 -0800 Subject: Re: the book You wrote: > >I received number of positive responses both privately and on the net to my >CP book idea but there appears to be another group already involved in a >similar, but not identical project, who may be understandably loath to >duplicate efforts. I wish that this other work had been well known on the net >since I was not aware of it or I would not have made my suggestion. I am >still open to suggestions but it does not look to me like there is general >support for this book idea as is, but rather an invitation to contribute to >the other project. I am therefore of the opinion that I should withdraw the >proposal. I will probably continue to collect cp data for my own use in the >format I had in mind but without full support it will not be the kind of >document it could be. Perhaps the results of this other project will fill the >same data gap niche in the end. Thanks for the support some of you offered. >Pat. > > Please do not give up Pat, the web project and yours sound like two very different things and there is room for both...I think the web idea overshadowed yours because everyone loves hypermedia. Why not explain more about the format you intended? J -- ################### From: James Powell Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 08:32:49 -0500 Subject: Re: the book I was under the impression that what you were proposing would target hobbyists and growers rather than the professional biologist/botanist community. I would like to have a browsable hypertext CD that includes photos, brief descriptions in layman's terms of the plant, its habitat and geographic distribution, and growing info such as light, temperature, and propagation. Something that would appeal to younger growers as well as hobbyists - something to capture their imagination. A lot of us probably got hooked on these plants as kids anyways. I can almost see the package on the shelf at Babbages... --- James Powell - Library Automation, University Libraries, VPI&SU jpowell@borg.lib.vt.edu - NeXTMail welcome here Owner of VPIEJ-L, a discussion list for Electronic Journals Archives: http://borg.lib.vt.edu:80/ gopher://borg.lib.vt.edu:70/ file://borg.lib.vt.edu/~ftp ################### From: James Powell Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 08:32:49 -0500 Subject: Marcel Lecoufle dies X-Mts: smtp +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG I've just heard that Marcel Lecoufle has died. In case people aren't sure who he was, he was best known for his work with orchids. He had a secondary but still very significant interest in Bromeliads. He had many other interests including CP, and you're probably all familiar with his recent book (about 1 year old now). For CP, his expertise was in my opinion limited to Nepenthes hybrids. He had a really good nursery in the Paris which I guess will continue. I don't know any more but as far as I can see, this is offician, i.e. not a rumour. Regards Paul ################### From: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de (Andreas Wistuba) Date: 06 Feb 1995 22:42:00 +0100 Subject: Re: INTRODUCTION > ... Propagation > from seed is one of my keenest interests- which carniverous plants > would survive the fumblings of a newcomer? Any and all advice would > be gratefully received. Try to get some seeds of easier ones like Drosera capensis or Drosera binata or how about Sarracenias. If you think the plants have already caught you (Yes Droseras can be very sticky!), join one of the Carnivorous plant societies. You have one in Great Britain, which gives you the chance to meet people with the same interest and get a good start with seeds or offsprings. A must for the serious enthusiast is the International CP Society (ICPS) with it's CPN (Carnivorous Plant Newsletter). All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Tel.: +49 621 705471 Fax: +49 621 711307 e-mail: a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de a.wistuba@dkfz-heidelberg.de ## CrossPoint v3.02 ## ################### From: JH2@scires.com Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 10:13:59 EST Subject: Hello Again!! Hi Gang, My computer system here at work has been seriously broken for about a month or so. We hired NOVELL to come in and fix our problems at the rate of $10,000 per hour...after 4 hours they told us we were fine. We went down for 6 hours the very next day!! Oh well, as I just told a friend (also on the CP list) not a very good bang for $40,000 bucks! Anyway, my plants are doing poorly (CP plants). A friend of mine that built his own grow box took in my D. Capansis, and I was shocked at how big it had grown in a month. I loaned it to him for 4 weeks, it was about an inch tall, and about an inch wide....I got it back last week-end and it is now over a foot tall and a foot wide! Unbelievable. I sent away for those plans but still have not received them yet, it's been about 3 weeks I think. Did anyone else send for the "Build Your Own Grow Box"?? If so, did you get your plans yet?? The only reason I ask is because I seriously need one of those now seeing how well my D. capensis did. I think I may have shocked it a bit by putting it on the same window sill with my other CPs. Now, all my CPs are sitting on the window sill watching the days grow slowly longer, and I hope that helps bring them (my CPs back)... I have some other plants that were sent to me by a couple other friends on the CP list that are "sleeping" in my garage at the moment. I'll be short, since I have over 500 CP messages in my inbox to look over. Great to be back again! My best to you all....btw, Ron Gagliardo, I'll be in touch with you very soon to plan the trip to the Botanical Gardens. Thanks, Jim Houston -atlanta- ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 08:32:29 -0800 (PST) Subject: Grow Box Plans A previous poster mentioned sending away for plans for a grow box. Can someone tell me where to send? (I know this must have been posted many times but I missed it...) thanks Bob Beer "If Casper is a friendly ghost, bbeer@u.washington.edu where did they bury the body of No, I'm not in D.C.! :\ Casper the friendly dead kid?" --Bongo ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 16:51:42 +0000 Subject: e-mail address wanted +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Anyone got an e-mail address for Oliver Gluch (Burgdorf-Ehlershausen, Germany). Better still - Oliver are you there? If so please e-mail me so I can reply! Regards Paul ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 09:09:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Book Ok. I do think that the book I had in mind is different than the monograph that Jan has mentioned. Is it different enough to warrant the effort? Many of the people working on the monograph have the necessary knowledge to help make the book a success? Perhaps little extra effort would be required on their part since they could use the material they have already prepared. I had intended it to be a more or less popular compendium of what we know about the plants: where they grow, descriptions, interesting tidbits, common and latin names, identification keys and our experiences in how to grow them successfully under various conditions (greenhouses, outdoors, windowsills, growth rooms, pots, bog gardens, and propagation from seeds, cuttings, tissue culture etc.). Some technical descriptions and synonymy would be required (and for this I would like Jans help) so that we know exactly what entities we are talking about ( we need a self consistent list of accepted species and an arbiter of what is a species and what is a synonym). I want to keep the book useful and interesting to the hobbiest rather than a fully cited monograph. The value of doing it here on the net is that we could hopefully avoid the errors everyone talks about finding in the published books. We have botanists, writers, editors, librarians, growers, educators and people on the ground all over the world; we also have hundreds of contributors and proof readers so we should be able to get it right. One persons experience is probably not adequate as published books seem to indicate. Having recently joined the list I am aware of how trying it can be to get up to speed and know what has already been discussed to death and what is new and interesting. Such a book would be a useful read-me-first addition to the archives for new subscribers. I will post, shortly, a brief suggested chapter outline of what I have in mind. Pat ################### From: "Philip F. Wight" Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:41:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: Marcel Lecoufle dies (fwd) I am forwarding this from the bromeliad forum. Phil ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: Multiple recipients of list -------- +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG Some people may wish to know that the death of Marcel Lecoufle has been announced. As well as his senior role in the Bromeiliad Society, Marcel was well known, perhaps best known, for his interest in orchids. Marcel also had interest in Carnivorous Plants, recently publishing a book on this subject. In my opinion, his CP skills were best shown in his love of Nepenthes, especially hybrids which he helped develop. I don't know anything more concerning his death. Regards Paul ################### From: amoeba@cix.compulink.co.uk (Howard Osborn) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 17:59 GMT Subject: DISASTER! Erk! I've managed to erase a lot of unread email! If you've written and I've not replied, please send copies! A thousand apologies for my idiocy! ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 20:09:30 +0100 Subject: Re: The Book-WWW Dear Pat, >Ok. I do think that the book I had in mind is different than the monograph >that Jan has mentioned. Is it different enough to warrant the effort? OK, I do not think so. Have you seen the topics of the monograph framework I have mentioned, already? You want: 1. where they grow, 2. descriptions, 3. interesting tidbits, 4. common and latin names, 5. identification keys 6. and our experiences in how to grow them successfully (...) 7. Some technical descriptions 8. and synonymy We have (direct citation from framework, comments in "# #"): #4.# scientific name 4.# vernacular name 5.# diagnosis #obsolete as soon #as keys for all taxa are available in database# 8.# Synonyms #already #included in database# 8.# Homonyms #already included in database# 2.# #Description 2./5.# Variability #including keys to infraspecific taxa# #1.# Geographical distribution 1.# Habitats 6.# Cultivation 6.# Hybrids Please describe your "3. interesting tidbits" a bit more exactly. I am rather sure I will find some equivalent even for this one in the framework. >I want to keep the book useful and interesting to the hobbiest rather than a >fully cited monograph. And I think a monograph indeed can (and should) be both, fully cited and useful/interesting. >Such a book would be a useful read-me-first addition to the archives >for new subscribers. I will post, shortly, a brief suggested chapter >outline of what I have in mind. Yes, and I bet my socks it can be done by monographs for the world wide web page. Why do you still want to do your own thing? The number of professional botanists involved in the monograph project so far is close to zero (at least this number would increase considerably if I could persuade YOU to participate). They are all cp enthusiasts who want to help each other (and I do not want to exclude myself from these). Kind regards Jan ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 13:03:27 -0700 Subject: Re: The Book-WWW Jan and Pat, Just to chime in on the topic of "interesting tidbits" that might be included in either/both of these monographic treatments, consider the following items: 1. Conservation info. What is the status of the taxon in the wild: endangered/ threatened/common/not present. Who is working on the conservation of the group, if anyone? 2. Ecological interactions. Who are thenatural pollinators? Are there associated endemic fauna? Is there a flowering period for the species? How are the seeds dispersed? Is there a seed bank and what is the period of seed dormancy? What is the usual prey in the wild (this may vary, for example, among Nepenthes). Etc. Even the most horticulturally oriented enthusiasts must be concerned with what's happening to the plants in the field, especially when it concerns loss of habitat or overcollection. With the pace of human development, keep in mind that we may never get to know the role of some carnivorous plant species with respect to the plant and animals with which they cooccur. I, for one, would like to see whatever we know at this point collected in the monographs. Happy planting, Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, Castetter Hall, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 Wk: (505) 277-0683 Home: (505) 255-2176 E-mail: cfrazie@unm.edu ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:00:34 -0500 Subject: Re cp digest 240 To: Peter Cole Re: scale and pesticides Dear Peter, I have found that most of the systemic pesticides available here in the U.S. have no ill effect on Nepenthes when used at recommended strength. I use a produce called Cygon 2E at 1 tablespoon/gallon. This is very effective against scale but you may need a second application in 10 days. If this is not available in your area try a local product on a test plant. When using a new pesticide you can do a 1X and a 4X test on a couple of seedlings or something relatively common like N. alata that you would not be overly concerned with losing. If a 4X test does no harm it should be safe with virtua lly any Nepenthes. I have heard however that Nepenthes are damaged or killed by copper based fungicides. Most of our local scale are easy to kill, however one species known as snow scale requires repeated treatment with at least two systemic insecticides over a month or more. It is widespread in the eastern U.S. and may occur in Europe as well. Good Luck! Cliff ################### From: barry@as.arizona.edu (Barry Meyers-Rice) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 13:40:44 -0700 Subject: Utrics and Pings Greetings, >Now in my greenhouse, Utric hybrid (U.alpina x endresii) is blooming. >Barry-san: >How do you like your Utrics? Isao-san, It is very interesting your hybrid is blooming. My specimen of this plant is doing very well, and I am looking forward to when it flowers. The other things you have sent are doing very well. Arigato! Are the flowers on your hybrid like _U.alpina_ or _U.endresii_ or both? Regarding the white-flowered _Pinguicula_ from the US... >Now I come to a slightly different problem. The second one--which I >also thought was _P.caerulea_ has not fully opened yet, but it is >obvious that it is going to have white flowers. I never knew there >was a white-flowered version of this plant, although in every other >respect the structure is the same. The only other noticeable >difference is the height of the scape. In the _P.caerulea_, it is >close to a foot in height, but the newer one is less than half that. I've keyed out the occasional strangely coloured US Ping, and so can empathise with your situation. In keying variant US Pings, you cannot use scape height, sadly. Look through SCHNELL and pay attention to the nature of the palate---is it exserted or not? I have or heard of white specimens of several species. For example I am growing a white-flowered _P.primuliflora_. You can easily determine if you have _P.caerulea_ by the nature of the hairs on the scape base, which will be particularly easy since you have a normal clone of the plant. Note that the scape base has long hairs which are not glandular, while the upper scape has short glandular hairs. _P.caerulea_ is the only US species with this nature to the hairs. Good luck, Barry ################### From: klmott@planetx.bloomu.edu (Kristin L. Mott) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:45:12 +0500 Subject: CPN article submission I guess this one is for Steve Baker, but input from anyone is welcome. How does one go about submitting an article to the CPN? What is required as far as pictures accompanying articles? Even though this is available in old CPN's, I think there are people out there who don't subscribe who might like to know. Thanks in advance. ################### From: MBT1159@ACS.TAMU.EDU Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:51:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: RE: Grow Box Plans Ditto. Matt Thompson mbt1159@zeus.tamu.edu ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 14:25:37 -0800 Subject: Re: Marcel Lecoufle dies You wrote: >I've just heard that Marcel Lecoufle has died. > > > >For CP, his expertise was in my opinion limited to Nepenthes hybrids. > >He had a really good nursery in the Paris which I guess will continue. > >I don't know any more but as far as I can see, this is offician, >i.e. not a rumour. > >Regards > >Paul > > Lord, he was such a nice man. I had the oportunity to meet with him several times here in the US and I must say he ranked among the leaders of horticulture, world wide. He will be missed.... Thank-you Paul for posting this John -- ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 14:29:44 -0800 Subject: RE: Grow Box Plans You wrote: > Ditto. I am the author of the "infamous plans". They have been posted in the CP archives, Enjoy! Feel free to post any questions about them. J -- ################### From: JH2@scires.com Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 18:13:51 EST Subject: Grow Box Plan Info... I see (since I've been gone) that there must have been more discussion about Grow Box plans... Anyway, since some of you are asking me, the company that puts out the Grow Box plans that I sent away for is somewhere here in Atlanta. If you wish, and you haven't already done so, please feel free to email me offline regarding any more info I can pass along... What I do know is that the company H2 (as in H squared) has plans to build 3 different kinds of grow boxes ranging in interior lights and size. They sell plans to build the three grow boxes, and if you want you can buy the electrical components from them, or hunt around and find the stuff you need locally. The plans I ordered is the same one my friend built (the one that I had my D. capensis in). It hosts 9 plants and seems to be perfect for growing indoors. My friend built his in one day, and it cost him around $250., and should last a lifetime. The bulbs, etc., are guaranteed for life (I always question things like that)... I have seen indoor growing lights and boxes before, and in my opinion, the ONLY thing that may be better is a 1,000 Super Metal Halide. I simply don't have the space for that, although I would love to have one. The address for the Grow Box plans is: H2 (as in H squared) Enterprises P.O. Box 723593 Atlanta, Ga 31139-0593 Send them a check for $20 and tell them what size grow box plans you want; they sell plans for a 3-light 9,000 lumen grow box, a 4-light 12,000 lumen, and the one I personally was amazed with, the 8-light 25000 lumen grow box. The last time I was getting mail from the CP list regularly, there was a big fight over people using the internet to sell stuff. Well, I'm not trying to do that - I'm only sharing knowledge that I feel will benefit CP growers, period. Jim Houston -atlanta- ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:33:18 GMT Subject: gibberelic acid Rick Skalsky writes: > 1. Where in the USA might one get a hold of gibberelic (sp.) acid? and John Laroche replies: > Aldrich Chemical Supply ... Just my 2 pence worth, but if anyone's looking for gibberelic acid in the UK, it's available from: Sunlight Systems, 3, St Mary's Works, Burnmoor Street, LEICESTER LE2 7JJ They do lighting systems and hydroponics kits too, but they're a bit on the pricey side. The gibberelic acid appears to be 10 lb/g - I don't know if that's good or bad - they also do hormone rooting powder by the kilogram ( enough to last several lifetimes I'd have thought :) Happy growing, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | RIP Nepenthes X 'coccinea'... Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | ################### From: JH2@scires.com Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 18:20:07 EST Subject: Also saddened I am also saddened to learn of the death of Marcel Lecoufle. Paul Temple edited his colorful CP book that we discussed here so much. Can you give us any further information Paul regarding Marcel's address, or a means that we can send our condolences? Marcel's book still ranks as my favorite for it's colorful photos of CPs. Admittedly, it's the book I reference 99% of the time for information. Although it seemed to have gotten a lot of bad press, I find the book quite useful. Jim Houston -atlanta- ################### From: SteveB4706@aol.com Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 20:21:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Andreas Andreas, Do you wish to put your ad in the March issue of CPN? Thanks , Steve Baker ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 18:19:58 -0800 Subject: Re: Grow Box Plan Info...(or "I'm a fool"...) You wrote: > > I see (since I've been gone) that there must have been more discussion > about Grow Box plans... > Anyway, since some of you are asking me, the company that puts out the > Grow Box plans that I sent away for is somewhere here in Atlanta. > If you wish, and you haven't already done so, please feel free to > email me offline regarding any more info I can pass along... > What I do know is that the company H2 (as in H squared) has plans to > build 3 different kinds of grow boxes ranging in interior lights and > size. They sell plans to build the three grow boxes, and if you want > you can buy the electrical components from them, or hunt around and > find the stuff you need locally. The plans I ordered is the same one > my friend built (the one that I had my D. capensis in). It hosts 9 > plants and seems to be perfect for growing indoors. My friend built > his in one day, and it cost him around $250., and should last a > lifetime. The bulbs, etc., are guaranteed for life (I always question > things like that)... I have seen indoor growing lights and boxes > before, and in my opinion, the ONLY thing that may be better is a > 1,000 Super Metal Halide. I simply don't have the space for that, > although I would love to have one. > > The address for the Grow Box plans is: > > H2 (as in H squared) Enterprises > P.O. Box 723593 > Atlanta, Ga 31139-0593 > > Send them a check for $20 and tell them what size grow box plans you > want; they sell plans for a 3-light 9,000 lumen grow box, a 4-light > 12,000 lumen, and the one I personally was amazed with, the 8-light > 25000 lumen grow box. > > The last time I was getting mail from the CP list regularly, there was > a big fight over people using the internet to sell stuff. Well, I'm > not trying to do that - I'm only sharing knowledge that I feel will > benefit CP growers, period. > > Jim Houston > -atlanta- > > > I was so upset when I heard about Marcel, I looked at grow box and saw glove box. My apologies... However, the fern curator at the New York Botanical Garden has the most amazing air-conditioned grow box I've ever seen. Prehaps you could place a call there and get the design plans from them. John -- ################### From: kirk martin Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 18:40:22 PST Subject: out of print I recently tried to order a second copy of Mr. Lecoufle's book Carnivorous Plants Care and Cultivation and was informed that it was now out of print. I happened to know a shop that had a copy in stock some distance away a nd found a copy. This was belated information I received last week that I had n ot managed to post. I was sorry to hear of Mr. Lecoufle's passing. Kirk ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 09:22:02 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: U. tricolor Sorry, that I write it on the public net: Dear Ch'ien, can you give me please your snail-mail-address, so I can send you a start of U. tricolor. Bye Joe N. (zxmxo07@student.uni-tuebingen.de) ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:33:55 +0100 Subject: Re: The Book-WWW DEAR FOLKS interested in the book stuff, May I propose that you order the framework from me and read it through BEFORE you propose any "tidbits that might be included", please. You will see the people who designed the framework were also not completely devoid of ideas. This will cost YOU only the time to read it through, and it will save a lot of time for ME posting excerpts from the framework to this list, and for those SUBSCRIBERS not interested in this stuff reading and/or deleting it. In order to improve discipline a bit, for future messages I will not reply but send the framework unasked to anyone proposing "tidbits that might be included" on this list to his/her private email account rather than to bother the group with it. I know this is not really netiquette but I hope you appreciate this. One important feature of a MONOgraph is that it should include all information available in ONE work. So why can't we do this ONE thing and do it as properly as we can rather than to diffuse our efforts in dispersed partial solutions to essentially the same problems? Dear Chris, I see, you have not read the framework either. You want: >1. Conservation info. What is the status of the taxon in the wild: >endangered/ threatened/common/not present. Who is working on the >conservation of the group, if anyone? > >2. Ecological interactions. Who are thenatural pollinators? Are there >associated endemic fauna? Is there a flowering period for the species? How >are the seeds dispersed? Is there a seed bank and what is the period of >seed dormancy? What is the usual prey in the wild (this may vary, for >example, among Nepenthes). Etc. We have (again, direct citation from framework): QUOTE- Threat CITES, endangered species lists. Population development, destroyed habitats and the main reasons for extinction. Which protection measures do exist, and which efficiency do they have? Habitats (this information is especially important if experience with culture is scant) Climatic and topographic limitations: Rain, temperature, humidity, exposition to wind and sun, etc., and the seasonal fluctuations of these parameters as far as they are of relevance to distribution and survival of the species. Topology of the habitats: N or S facing slopes, throughs, shade or full sun light. Substratum: Synopsis of the different soil types the species can grow in. Main components, geologic profile; height and seasonal fluctuations of ground water level, soil-inhabiting animals with influence on soil composition, decomposition, generation of vegetable mould, density, coarseness, pH at different depths, chemical (Ca, K, N, P,...) and mechanical (mould content, ash content, water retention) analyses, comparison with own experimental results. Synecology Accompanying flora, Plant-sociology: Synopsis of vegetation types and plant communities the species is found in. Stating the most important accompanying plant species. Response to natural and artificial environmental influences: Competition with other species. Does the species survive e.g. inundation, desiccation, fires, grazing, collection for commercial purposes, alteration of habitat, cutting down, drainage, reclamation, herbicide application, pollution, etc.? Influence of these parameters on growth of plants, flowering, fructification and seed set. How do accompanying plants respond to these alterations? Floral biology, Seed production and dispersal, strategies of dispersal, effective reproduction: At which age do the plants flower for the first time? How frequently do they flower, is seed set each time? Pollination by insects (which?) or wind or...? Amphi- or apomixis, vivipary? Autogamy possible? Under which circumstances are cleistogamous flowers produced? Number of seeds per fruit and plant. Microphotograph of seed. Method and rate of vegetative reproduction and dispersal. Comparison of generative and vegetative reproduction. Viability of seeds, germination, and seedling morphology: How do external conditions (temperature, light, humidity, duration of influence) during storage of seed affect viability? Dormancy, stratification. Experimental data should be accompanied by detailed description of experimental conditions. Optimal conditions for germination? How does the seedling develop? May the species be recognized by the seedling, already? Physiology Metabolism, mycorrhiza: Microclimatic influence, water equilibrium, osmotic potential, reasons for withering, rate of transpiration, stomata, cuticle, influence of chemical composition of substratum, What does influence flower production? Experimental results or field observations? Mycorrhiza: which type, if present? Carnivory: Mechanism, variety of prey, extent, importance. Influence on the species. Symbionts: For which animal species is the species completely or partially important as a habitat? Animal feeders, parasites, diseases: Insects, snails, or other animals which consume the species completely or partially. Threat for the species? Symptoms and causing agents of fungal, bacterial and viral diseases, influence of habitat and season? -UNQUOTE Thank you very much for co-operation. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Michael Livingston Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 08:26:31 PST Subject: RE: Grow Box Plans I just tried to get the plans from the CP archive and either couldn't find them or didn't know how. I got the CP INDEX from the list processor and didn't see it there. I also tried to FTP (couldn't find host opus.hpl.hp.com or ftp. ....) and NetScape but couldn't get in. How can I get in? Michael Livingston NetCraft Software Development, Inc. ################### From: dik.hagenbeek@Sg1.OC.WAU.NL (Dik Hagenbeek) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 15:39:52 -0800 Subject: Re: Error Condition Re: >We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which may >have been inadvertedly sent to this list: > >SET CP > >If your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and resend >your mail message, making sure you do not include anything that may >look like a request in the first line of the body of the actual >message. If this was indeed a request please resend it to >listproc@opus.hpl.hp.com Your entire message is copied below. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >set cp ################### From: Carl.Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Carl Gustafson) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 10:36:24 -0500 Subject: Cygon use Cliff Dodd refered to the use of Cygon in knocking out scale on Nepenthes: It is a very effective pesticide, and does a great job on lots of critters, but can have nasty effects on people if it gets in contact with skin, as I know from sad experience. A small amount of wind drift caught me in the face and gave me a great set of leaking blisters that lasted for about two weeks. Moral of the story: Use it, but be very careful. Carl ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 10:53:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Miscellaneous Hi gang. My P. caerulea plants are blooming happily, and both show signs of putting up a second flower. Does anyone know if these critters set viable seed without too much difficulty, and if so, does it require any sort of stratification? Also, my wife and I are planning a trip to Florida, St. Petersburg to be more specific, in April. I know this is a little early, but I would be interested in any nurseries/sites/events down there. ################### From: scott meissner Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 12:00:03 CST Subject: help on plans >I am the author of the "infamous plans". They have been posted in the CP >archives, Enjoy! Feel free to post any questions about them. >J > Brought to you by: > Sabercat@ix.netcom.com Hello, I have down loaded the plans, and tried to decondense them. I do not understand how the condensation works for "zip" or "gif" files so all I got was the "plans.txt" and no graphics. Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe the unix system here just does not have the functions necessary to do this? We do have an old system here. Can you please give advise to the "neo-netters" like me on how to decondense the plans for the laminar flow hood? Or, if it is just my college's computer system being old, could I send you a SASE and ask for a hard copy of the plans? If so, could you post your address? Thanks Scott T. Meissner Division of Science and Mathematics McKendree College 701 College Road Lebannon, IL 62254 smeissne@a1.mckendree.edu ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:38:41 -0800 Subject: RE: Grow Box Plans (I'm a fool 2) You wrote: > >I just tried to get the plans from the CP archive and either couldn't find >them or didn't know how. I got the CP INDEX from the list processor and >didn't see it there. I also tried to FTP (couldn't find host opus.hpl.hp.com >or ftp. ....) and NetScape but couldn't get in. > >How can I get in? > >Michael Livingston >NetCraft Software Development, Inc. > > > Maybe you didn't see my post (RE:Grow Box Plans (I'm a fool). Please read to find out why I'm a fool. Again, my apologies... John -- ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:42:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Cygon use You wrote: > >Cliff Dodd refered to the use of Cygon in knocking out scale on Nepenthes: > >It is a very effective pesticide, and does a great job on lots of critters, >but can have nasty effects on people if it gets in contact with skin, as I >know from sad experience. A small amount of wind drift caught me in the >face and gave me a great set of leaking blisters that lasted for about two >weeks. > >Moral of the story: Use it, but be very careful. > >Carl > > I may add that severe poisoning may cause permenant heart and liver damage, which I can report from personal experience, is agonizingly painful. Be careful! John -- ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:48:54 -0800 Subject: Re: help on plans You wrote: >Hello, > I have down loaded the plans, and tried to decondense them. >I do not understand how the condensation works for "zip" or "gif" files >so all I got was the "plans.txt" and no graphics. > Maybe I'm missing something, or maybe the unix >system here just does not have the functions necessary to do this? >We do have an old system here. > Can you please give advise to the "neo-netters" like me on >how to decondense the plans for the laminar flow hood? Or, if it is >just my college's computer system being old, could I send you >a SASE and ask for a hard copy of the plans? If so, could you post >your address? > **********SNIP************ Friends my experience is limited to the good ole PC, Unix: I know from nothing....You Need the Pictures. They are not .gif, only plain old .bmp. Zip is a PC compression scheme, similar to say tar. To make everyone's life easier, (and further complicate mine), you can request the plans from me by snail mail; please do not freely distribute my address, I live the life of a hermit and enjoy it. John Laroche 420 Northeast 176 Street North Miami Beach, Florida 33162 USA > -- ################### From: "Robert L. Briggs" Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 22:30:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Vacation Hello Everyone, My wife and I are planning to take our vacation to North Carolina with intent to view and photograph Carnivorous plants in the wild. Can anyone suggest any locations, parks, field trips or greenhouses to visit so as to get the most out of our one week stay. The more natives we see the happier we'll be. For my second question: what's the best way to put CP's into a refrigerator for hibernation? I've tried several methods. Some work, some Not-so-work! I have the Lecoufle book and have always considered it one of my favorites. It's sad to think there will be no more reference from him.:-( God's speed! ============================= Robert L. Briggs rbriggs@ozarks.sgcl.lib.mo.us ============================= ################### From: bosco@interaccess.com (Doug Bosco) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 23:47:48 -0600 Subject: RE: PETER PAULS Douglas Wiggins Said: >The only thing I can suggest to new growers to give them an edge >with these plants is to tell them to use CO2 - that is how I got my >start. I bought plants from reputible dealer who is now out of >business because he gave up on trying to change the world >(practically the identical sentiment that I finally developed), but >they didn't grow well. I was painting with my airbrush, using CO2 >for propellant, and got the idea that plants like CO2 - after a >short time of squirting CO2 into the terrarium a few times a day, >my plants were thriving. I can't recommend it enough. Plants >require CO2, and the nearly-closed terrariums don't allow enough >air-flow to exchange the exhausted air under the leaves (where it >is exchanged); just increasing the ventilation might help (but not >for dead plants). > Interesting..I tried to convert my oven into a mini greenhouse by setting up my aquarium hoodlight inside and my plants underneath it. Since I have a gas oven, I believed that the pilot light would generate extra CO2 (and heat) which would assist the plants in growing. Unfortunately my Darlingtonia was not amused and promptly keeled over. I still think there might be a possibility here but I may be doing it wrong. Doug Bosco - bosco@interaccess.com ################### From: bosco@interaccess.com (Doug Bosco) Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 23:58:08 -0600 Subject: RE: PETER PAULS > Douglas Wiggins said: >The only thing I can suggest to new growers to give them an edge >with these plants is to tell them to use CO2 - that is how I got my >start. I bought plants from reputible dealer who is now out of >business because he gave up on trying to change the world >(practically the identical sentiment that I finally developed), but >they didn't grow well. I was painting with my airbrush, using CO2 >for propellant, and got the idea that plants like CO2 - after a >short time of squirting CO2 into the terrarium a few times a day, >my plants were thriving. I can't recommend it enough. Plants >require CO2, and the nearly-closed terrariums don't allow enough >air-flow to exchange the exhausted air under the leaves (where it >is exchanged); just increasing the ventilation might help (but not >for dead plants). Hmm..interesting. I tried to utilize the benefits of CO2 by trying to set up a greenhouse in my oven. I set up an aquarium hood inside it above my CPs (in large glass jars). I was trying to utilize the excess CO2 (and heat) generated by my pilot light (a gas oven). Unfortunately, my Darlingtonia was not amused and promptly keeled over. My VFTs weren't happy either. Of course, I had to remove the unit periodically to generate a pizza dinner. Has anyone else tried this? If you have, has it worked for you? Doug Bosco bosco@interaccess.com ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 16:09:12 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: PETER PAULS According to Doug Bosco: > >Douglas Wiggins Said: > < suggestions for using CO2 to help plant growth deleted for brevity> > >Interesting..I tried to convert my oven into a mini greenhouse by setting up >my aquarium hoodlight inside and my plants underneath it. > >Since I have a gas oven, I believed that the pilot light would generate >extra CO2 (and heat) which would assist the plants in growing. Unfortunately >my Darlingtonia was not amused and promptly keeled over. > >I still think there might be a possibility here but I may be doing it wrong. > I suspect that the other nasties produced by the gas combustion may have something to do with that. If you want a cheap, easy CO2 source then you cannot go past a jar with some sugar, water and yeast in it the by-product of the yeast digestion of sugar is CO2 gas plus alcohol :*) Replenish the jar as necessary but if you want to drink the contents you really should arrange an "airlock" - a U tube filled with water to let the CO2 gas out and keep the oxygen out otherwise you will only get acetic acid. Oh, and be careful as you may not get C2H5OH (ethyl alcohol aka booze) but some other alcohol which can make you sick/dead :*( Yes, I did try distilling this stuff when I was much younger - the yeild was not great but boy the stuff had a real kick! -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 08:59:40 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: new subscriber On Wed, 8 Feb 1995, MR BRUCE D DUDLEY wrote: > Hi if this is reaching anyone please respond. > > > Good morning, Bruce, we all can hear you clearly Joe N. ################### From: "Rogan Roth" Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:18:22 +200 Subject: Off-line discussion - Aristolochia sp. Dear all, Please forgive me for broaching a subject so far removed from CP (although this is not strictly true - Aristolochia flowers do trap insects for short periods of time, although not for nutritive reasons but rather for polination purposes!). Does anybody specialize/grow Aristolochia species or know of a source of seed? Thanks for your indulgence. Best regards Rogan B. Roth. P.S. Please contact me via private e-mail with your replies at: ROTH@GATE2.CC.UNP.AC.ZA ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 09:54:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Miscellaneous > > > Hi gang. My P. caerulea plants are blooming happily, and both show > signs of putting up a second flower. Does anyone know if these > critters set viable seed without too much difficulty, and if so, does > it require any sort of stratification? Also, my wife and I are > planning a trip to Florida, St. Petersburg to be more specific, in > April. I know this is a little early, but I would be interested in > any nurseries/sites/events down there. > > Chris: I didn't notice an answer to your question so I'll throw in my experience. First, I have never had an American Ping self when being kept indoors. I use a toothpick wrapped with a little tissue - which seems to work about 90% of the time. Schnell's book gives you a good idea about the process. I will usually try for several days in a row. Once pollinated the flower falls off quickly, leaving the developing seed pod. If the flower hangs on for a long time, it probably hasn't been pollinated. The seed pod takes a while to dry, then suddenly you glance back and it's split open. The seed sprout readily without stratification, but are subject to damping off. As far as St. Petersburg, Marie Baumgarthl(sp) of Maire's Orchids is in St. Pete. The USF botanical garden in Tampa has a small collection of plants just started. Selby Gardens (maybe 1/2 or 2 hours South) has a number of Neps. and Sarrs. altho few are displayed. Selby Garden has their twice annual sale sometime in the spring, as does the USF Botanical Garden, both offer a big variety of all kinds of plants. Tom in Florida where it is cold! ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 10:05:54 -0500 Subject: Re: cold in Florida Just a note: the coldest night of the year was last night here in Florida. Overnight temps here were in the high to mid twenties. A freeze was expected even further south inland toward Sarrasota. So expect to pay more for orange juice, tomatoes, and all your other winter crops As far as the more important stuff (CPs :) ), I went out this morning to find all my plants frozen into their water trays. Can you imagine, ICE! At this point I am not worried about my Sarrs. or Drosera, but I don't know what happens to live sphagnum when it is frozen solid. It does look weird. Tom in Florida, with a chance to wear an overcoat. ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 09:37:02 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: cold in Florida > stuff (CPs :) ), I went out this morning to find all my plants frozen > into their water trays. Can you imagine, ICE! At this point I am not > worried about my Sarrs. or Drosera, but I don't know what happens to > live sphagnum when it is frozen solid. It does look weird. In my experience, freezing does very little to sphagnum except stop it growing for a short time. Sphagnum is very weedy stuff--all my live sphagnum came from about four square inches which, potted in a wide, shallow tray, eventually invaded surrounding pots. What of it I've got outside has even survived being frozen solid and light snowfall. ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:01:32 GMT+1 Subject: CITES Hello, I was just wondering whether somebody here knows any details: There are rumours here that some American CP-collectors are in trouble with the authorities for whatever reasons, that collections have been confiscated and some people will have to go to court. Is this just a rumour or what's going on? As far as I've heared the whole thing started a few months ago. I realize that it's not my business but I'm just interested. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany E-Mail: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: Carol Meeds WPB 407-433-2650 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 17:12:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Miscellaneous HI This is Carol in South Florida where it is cold too. I subscribed to this list out of curiosity about C.P. I don't have any. Never had any. Maybe would like to, but not sure why... Since the volume is quite high and very detailed, I'm going to drop off, but would appreciate some C.P. 101 type info. e-mail to meeds_c@wpb1.dep.state.fl.us snail to Carol Meeds, 333 Hibiscus St., Jupiter, Fl. 33458 ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 12:53 EST Subject: Re: cold in Florida Sphagnum grows well up into Canada, where it freezes and still survives :-) Michael ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 10:26:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: The Book Here is the abbreviated, tentative, chapter outline I promised. Chapter 1. Intro: what is a CP, definition;conservation topics, information sources on the net via netscape, mosaic, gopher, ftp sites; information in libraries, key words for searches; contributers to this book, names and email addresses for those willing to list them; Chapter 2. Lists: quick reference listings of families, genera, species, chromosome numbers, common names, synonyms, Chapter 3. Descriptions: brief technical info on roots, stems, leaves, flowers, traps, etc.; a more general laymans description of the plant and the type of variation found in cultivation and nature; Chapter 4. Keys: by genus, for specific regions, vegetative only, floral, non-dichotomous methods, by growth forms or habitats, Chapter 5. Natural history/ecology: brief ecology and habitat data; narratives of the places and conditions under which the plant lives, interesting tidbits about the plant; pollinators, prey, natural dormancy and seed germination requirements, Chapter 6. Distribution: ideally a world map with dots or shading to show the general area of distribution and more detailed maps showing more specific location data; site lists by lat and long or site descriptions to indicate where it has been found?; Chapter 7. Culture/Propagation: window sills, growth rooms, green houses, outdoors, in artificial bogs, seed germination conditions, tissue culture techniques?, cuttings, dividing, lighting, watering, humidity, forcing flowering or vegetative growth, feeding/fertilizing, Chapter 8. Bibliographies: general and comprehensive, adult books, juvenile books, popular periodical articles, referreed papers in scientific journals, treatments in floras and texts, monographs, by genera, Chapter 9: Illustrations: black and white line drawings of whole plants, habitat sketches and details of parts? Jan my friend: What s the problem? I would like to have you on-side if this proceeds. There is obviously a lot of content overlap in what we are proposing but that is to be expected, we are dealing with the same subject matter. Our presentation methods, formats and styles are somewhat different and (looking beyond this cp group on the net) our audiences will be somewhat different. There could be an advantage to the two approaches going on together in that when someone goes to the time and effort to pull some data together it can be used twice. I don t have a problem with contributing to your efforts. Send me the checklist of topics you want addressed and I will start by working on 2 aquatic Utrics for you, U. vulgaris and U. intermedia. How do you want to send this list, email, fax or snail? Whoops I just checked your list of what has already been assigned and I see I am too late to do the local Drosera and Utricularia with which I am familiar so I will have to rethink what I would like to work on. Pat ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 23:35:49 GMT Subject: Neps and scale insects... Cliff Dodd writes: > Dear Peter, > > I have found that most of the systemic pesticides available here in the U.S. > have no ill effect on Nepenthes when used at recommended strength. I use a > produce called Cygon 2E at 1 tablespoon/gallon. This is very effective > against scale but you may need a second application in 10 days. If this is > not available in your area try a local product on a test plant. Sadly my N. X coccinea shuffled off it's mortal coil after all my efforts to save it. I had tried spraying with pyrethrin, alcohol on cotton buds, and picking the little !@#$%s off by hand. Maybe I overdid the chemicals, I don't know ( as a rule, I don't use any chemicals at all, except the occasional wipe with alcohol to get aphids off Sarracenia shoots etc. ) - there were still scale insects alive after it had died though, so maybe I underdid it. At least I managed to isolate it before they spread to any other plants ( fingers crossed... ) It was the first time I've had trouble with scale insects - hope it's my last ( well, I can hope can't I? :) I'll try a systemic if it ever happens again - 'natural' growing's got its place, but if these !@#$%s show up again they're toast! ... > I have heard however that Nepenthes are damaged or killed > by copper based fungicides. I've heard the same - I don't plan on putting it to the test though... > Most of our local scale are easy to kill, however one species known as snow > scale requires repeated treatment with at least two systemic insecticides > over a month or more. It is widespread in the eastern U.S. and may occur in > Europe as well. That may have been the ones - some of them were sort of fluffy and white - I'd thought those were larvae, but they might have been a different species. Oh well, c'est la vie an' all that - good growing, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | Down to my last Nep... Swansea, WALES | new mailbox, same account | ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:25:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Hmmmmmm I have a question for you pest experts. On a few of my Nepenthes, there are these little bitty white things on the tendrils. Sometimes they appear around spots on the leaves. They don't seem to be alive. They don't spread much. Upon close examination, they really don't seem very bug like. I first though they were aphids, but they have been on the plants for about a year with no ill effect. They don't seem to be harming the plants. What is this stuff? Chris ################### From: Carol Meeds WPB 407-433-2650 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 19:47:00 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Hmmmmmm Could it be salt crystalizing out? ################### From: Ronnie Spears Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:02:12 -500 (EST) Subject: Re: The Book Sounds great! And expensive. Ronnie Spears ################### From: goldberg@blaze.cs.jhu.edu (Harry R. Goldberg) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:23:36 -0400 XSubject: Re: The Book hello - i am trying to locate a service that carries aldrovanda vesiculosa. would certainly appreciate feedback. thanks harry goldberg goldberg@blaze.cs.jhu.edu ################### From: Robert St-Jean Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 15:37:55 -0500 Subject: Re: cold in Florida -Reply but I don't know what happens to live sphagnum when it is frozen solid. It does look weird. Tom in Florida, with a chance to wear an overcoat. Hi Tom, Yes, believe it or not, it still looks green when it's frozen. It continues to grow again when it thaws. Rob in Ottawa ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:57:48 -0500 Subject: Re: CITES > Hello, > > I was just wondering whether somebody here knows any details: > > There are rumours here that some American CP-collectors are in > trouble with the authorities for whatever reasons, that collections > have been confiscated and some people will have to go to court. > Is this just a rumour or what's going on? > As far as I've heared the whole thing started a few months ago. > I realize that it's not my business but I'm just interested. > > All the best > > Andreas Personally I have no knowledge of this happening or even any situation which would allow it to happen. Property laws are pretty strong here in the US. I know of no situation which would allow the wholesale confiscation of personal property. Tom in Fl ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 13:02:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Hmmmmmm (also Neps and Scale) You wrote: > >I have a question for you pest experts. On a few of my Nepenthes, there are >these little bitty white things on the tendrils. Sometimes they appear >around spots on the leaves. They don't seem to be alive. They don't ************S N I P************ It sounds like the scurge of Nep growers everywhere....Snow Scale....! A creature delivered by the Antichrist if there ever was one! Do they have a kinda grey sheen? Are they sort of cylindrical (maybe bent into ess's or ell's)? Is there a tiny necrotic (yellow or black spot) under each one? If so....you've got the plague. These things are Hell to get rid of.... Cygon 2E works resonibly well, but must be applied in the shade. High like will cause a reaction and likely damage the plant. Oxymal Granular is the best. Very deadly to humans...thankfully also to most sucking insects and mites. Like Cygon it is a systemic insecticide, but it is a granular powder which is applied to the root zone. I have seen no evidence of phytotoxicity with it. Notes about application...water it in very well...must be reapplied every 6 weeks...follow the directions on the package, but use common sense and increase or decrease dosage based upon the actual biomass of the plant (not pot size). A note on Copper...I have used Kocide (a copper based fungicide) on Neps with no ill effects. I like Daconil much better though. Sorry to ramble... J -- ################### From: Trisha Coene Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 14:28:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: cold in Florida On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Tom wrote: > > stuff (CPs :) ), I went out this morning to find all my plants frozen into > > their water trays. Can you imagine, ICE! At this point I am not worried about > > my Sarrs. or Drosera, but I don't know what happens to live sphagnum when it is > > frozen solid. It does look weird. > > Hi Tom, Just wanted to tell you that there is live sphagnum all over the forests out here in Oregon and it freezes almost every night throughout the winter. Seems to do just fine, spreading itself over every thing. Trish ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 14:57:13 -0800 Subject: CP Confiscation >From Andreas: > > There are rumours here that some American CP-collectors are in > > trouble with the authorities for whatever reasons, that collections > > have been confiscated and some people will have to go to court. Is > > this just a rumour or what's going on? As far as I've heared the > > whole thing started a few months ago. I realize that it's not my > > business but I'm just interested. I would definitely advise everyone to NOT collect live plants in the field. In the US at least, you are violating international law (CITES), IRS regulations (Tax Evasion of undeclared goods), and Customs Regulations (Smuggling). Several countries have occasionally intercepted illegal plant mailings and are pushing for maximum enforcement of CITES law. Anyone who has been to Malaysia, etc, is subject to scrutiny. Once you get a CITES inspector in your house, they have every authority to impound all plant material on the CITES list that does not have valid import certificates. (do you have CITES paperwork for you N.khasiana?) Inspectors are notoriously bad taxonomists, and are quite likely to impound anything possessing a pitcher. Collecting live Nepenthes from the field is particularly bad practice because such plants cannot be tissue cultured (due to fungal contamination). Such plants contribute little to further propagation of the species (except for pollen and seed production years down the line). Wild collected plants often do not adapt to cultivation and die. Seed grown under cultivated conditions is genetically selected towards cultivation conditions (assuming only a small percent of the seed actually germinates). Seed collection, with permits, is the only acceptible way to import endangered plant material. >From Tom (in Fl): > Personally I have no knowledge of this happening or even any situation > which would allow it to happen. Property laws are pretty strong here > in the US. I know of no situation which would allow the wholesale > confiscation of personal property. Cars, houses, boats, planes, and bank accounts are routinely taken away by the police if there is a suspicion (even unproven) of laundering drug money. If you are rich, and are found with marijuana, some juridictions will happily finance their police department by confiscation. In the US, having an in-vitro flask with 500 identifiable Hemp plants merits a mandatory federal death penalty. Here in the Pacific Northwest, picking the wrong wild mushroom is counted as possession of a Schedule I drug, and is subject to prosecution as a Felony (imprisonment and property forfeiture). There is trend to make these penalties mandatory, so that judges have no leeway to use common sense. I readily admit that there are stupid laws (CITES, etc), but we should work to change them, rather than to break them. -- Rick Walker ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 15:12:32 CST Subject: Re: CITES In Message Thu, 9 Feb 1995 13:08:08 -0800, Oliver T Massey CFS writes: > > >> Hello, >> >> I was just wondering whether somebody here knows any details: >> >> There are rumours here that some American CP-collectors are in >> trouble with the authorities for whatever reasons, that collections >> have been confiscated and some people will have to go to court. >> Is this just a rumour or what's going on? >> As far as I've heared the whole thing started a few months ago. >> I realize that it's not my business but I'm just interested. >> >> All the best >> >> Andreas > >Personally I have no knowledge of this happening or even any situation which >would allow it to happen. Property laws are pretty strong here in the US. I >know of no situation which would allow the wholesale confiscation of personal >property. > >Tom in Fl I have "heard" stories of this sort of thing happening. The story went that people's N. rajah plants were confiscated if they did not possess the proper paper work. Government officials were tipped off by another collector who did have the proper paper work and wanted to be among a select few to possess this plant. I have also heard of DEA agents combing the buyers lists of suppliers of lighting systems, and then raiding the homes of these people. John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: eheick@acs.bu.edu Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:09:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Andreas Rick, you raised, probably sarcastically, an interesting point. You asked if "you had permits for your N. khasiana?" This is interesting. I obtained seed from an US collector and the plants are rather large now. Now - I need a permit for this, even when it was obtained in the US? Where would I get a permit like this? I have heard this before, can you explain this? Christoph eheick@acs.bu.edu ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:54:46 -0700 (MST) Subject: S. purpurea Here is yet another question from a complete amateur. I have read conflicting information about wintering S. purpurea. Some sources state that the plant requires very cool conditions and recommend cutting off the pitchers and placing the plant in cool storage. Another source (CPN as I recall) stated that the plants need the pitchers during the winter as that is where they store the nutrients required for Spring growth. Which is correct? One year I did cut off the pitchers and put the plant in the fridge. It grew fine. Currently has the old pitchers and is in my family room. Most of the pitchers are turning brown at the edges. Should these be cut off? Should I wait until the whole leaf is history before lopping it off? Any and all help will once again be most appreciated! John ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:10:43 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects... According to Peter Cole: > > I'll try a systemic if it ever happens again - 'natural' growing's > got its place, but if these !@#$%s show up again they're toast! > Amen to that :-) > That may have been the ones - some of them were sort of fluffy and > white - I'd thought those were larvae, but they might have been a > different species. > No they sound more little the second rider in the sap sucking apocalypse: mealy bugs. Fortunately they can also be controlled by a systemic poison. On the subject of systemic poisons, I have applied the recommended strength of Rogor to all my plants (sarra, drosera, vft, nepenthes) with no obvious effect on the plants. Just watch those handling instructions though, these poisons are rather nasty and even a mild dose can give you symptoms very much like a very bad cold/influenza i.e. aching joints, headaches, lethargy. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 18:46:18 -0800 Subject: Re: S. purpurea You wrote: > >Here is yet another question from a complete amateur. I have read >conflicting information about wintering S. purpurea. Some sources state >that the plant requires very cool conditions and recommend cutting off >the pitchers and placing the plant in cool storage. Another source (CPN >as I recall) stated that the plants need the pitchers during the winter >as that is where they store the nutrients required for Spring growth. >Which is correct? One year I did cut off the pitchers and put the plant >in the fridge. It grew fine. Currently has the old pitchers and is in my >family room. Most of the pitchers are turning brown at the edges. Should >these be cut off? Should I wait until the whole leaf is history before >lopping it off? Any and all help will once again be most appreciated! > >John > > I would never recommend pitcher amputation unless necessary (ie a rot) in the case of purpurea, throughout the warmer parts of it's range, it dosent loose it pitchers in the winter. I've seen plants in situ in Clearview Fla, filled with ice in the dead of winter; returned a month later to find those very same plants catching bugs. Just my 2 cents... John -- ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:56 EST Subject: Re: S. purpurea > Here is yet another question from a complete amateur. I have read > conflicting information about wintering S. purpurea. Some sources state > that the plant requires very cool conditions and recommend cutting off > the pitchers and placing the plant in cool storage. Another source (CPN > as I recall) stated that the plants need the pitchers during the winter > as that is where they store the nutrients required for Spring growth. > Which is correct? One year I did cut off the pitchers and put the plant > in the fridge. It grew fine. Currently has the old pitchers and is in my > family room. Most of the pitchers are turning brown at the edges. Should > these be cut off? Should I wait until the whole leaf is history before > lopping it off? Any and all help will once again be most appreciated! > > John S. purpurea doesn't "need" the old pitchers, but removing them does take alot of the plant's stored nutrients away. On my adult plants there are between 3-5 perfect (not dried at the edges) leaves per growth point while active growth is happenning. I leave the older leaves on until they have declined to the point when I consider them to be detractive to the appearance of the plant. This leaves 6-8 pitchers at any given time. I follow this through the winter and early spring by not removing the old leaves until new one have grown to replace. Because of it's rest cycle the plant just doesn't look too good for part of the year and that is why I grow all Sarr. (except seedlings and cuttings) outdoors where they can be mulched and/or covered with snow. Dave Evans ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:02:28 -0800 Subject: Re: Andreas You wrote: > >Rick, >you raised, probably sarcastically, an interesting point. You asked if >"you had permits for your N. khasiana?" This is interesting. I obtained seed >from an US collector and the plants are rather large now. Now - I need a >permit for this, even when it was obtained in the US? Where would I get a >permit like this? I have heard this before, can you explain this? > >Christoph >eheick@acs.bu.edu > > I have had quite a bit of experience in this sphere. If you want an account of my exploits with Endangered Plants and (believe it or not) American Indians...Pick up a copy of the January 23 issue of the New Yorker. Yes that arrogant man feature therein is me. Anywhy, practically, to own any endangered plant that is NOT native to the US is not a problem. No one is going to mess with your Neps. However, if you are caught smuggling ALL your plants permitted or not are as good as gone. If you want to ship them out of the country, you will need to prove that they have been cultivated. In the past (with orchids and cycads as well as CP's)I have used germination logs, reciepts of sale and the common sense of the inspector to get this done. NATIVE American species are very different and CITES is so screwed up I washed my hands of it. I'm sure many of you know Clyde Bramblett; from what he told me, he was denyed a permit to ship VFT's that he had intentionally cultivated. Why? He grow them in a natural Bog (I forget but I think he owned it.leased it?)that was located in Central Florida. As you all know, this is a long way from their natural habitat! >From my own personal experience...don't rely on the "law" the law will protect you only as far as the people enforcing it will allow it to. Yes this may be cynical, but if you read my story, you will see that I am right. Sorry to ramble on...this thread hit a nerve. John -- ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 22:58 EST Subject: Re: S. purpurea Hi John, The same happenned here in Northern New Jersey but in a different manner. Earlier, in November we had some freezing weather for about a week (I should point out that we normally have freezing weather from mid Nov. thru Feb. and into March, but this time around winter didn't make his/her/it's appearance until last week.). The S. leuco- phylla's were frozen solid, the ground and the water in the leaves. Well a week and much warm weather later, the leuco's were back in business catching bugs (mostly flies). In fact some of the pitchers remained viable until beginning of Jan. thru many frost and freeze- thaw periods. Dave Evans ################### From: bosco@interaccess.com (Doug Bosco) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 00:52:52 -0600 Subject: Carnivorous Sponge I have read a fascinating article in SCIENCE NEWS (Feb 4) about a deep water sponge which is unlike any other known sponge in existence. Sponges are normally filter-feeding critters which sit around and filter huge quantities of water to get plankton and bacteria and other similar organic matter to eat. This sponge, however, has developed filaments which capture small crusteacans by using hook-shaped, pointy structures called spicules. These spicules are simular to velcro. Once the crusteacean gets caught on the spicules they will struggle for a day or so. As the prey stuggles, new spicules develop which further envelop the creature. The sponge looks like a drosera (except it dosen't use sticky liquid). Most of the prey is digested by the sponge directly but the spicules help out in the process. It is a deep-sea sponge, normally found between 100 and 8840 meters in the Northern Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, although some isolated specimens have been in shallower waters (in caves) of the Mediterranean. It thrives in nutrient-poor water (sounds familiar). It is a member of the genus Asbestopluma and hasn't been named yet. I guess sooner or later this little guy might find itself in the possession of a CP enthusiast. :-) Doug Bosco (bosco@interaccess.com) ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:23:00 +0100 Subject: NEW: heterotrophic animal!!! Doug, >It is a deep-sea sponge, normally found between 100 and 8840 meters in the >Northern Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, although some isolated specimens have >been in shallower waters (in caves) of the Mediterranean. It thrives in >nutrient-poor water (sounds familiar). It is a member of the genus >Asbestopluma and hasn't been named yet. > >I guess sooner or later this little guy might find itself in the possession >of a CP enthusiast. :-) Never. Only in the possession of a CA enthusiast (sponges are still rather straightforward animals, or do you want to lump the kingdoms?). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Pekka Ala-Siuru Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:27:17 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: cold in Florida On Thu, 9 Feb 1995, Christopher Waldrop wrote: > > stuff (CPs :) ), I went out this morning to find all my plants > > frozen into their water trays. Can you imagine, ICE! At this point > > I am not worried about my Sarrs. or Drosera, but I don't know what > > happens to live sphagnum when it is frozen solid. It does look > > weird. > > > In my experience, freezing does very little to sphagnum except stop it > growing for a short time. Sphagnum is very weedy stuff--all my live > sphagnum came from about four square inches which, potted in a wide, > shallow tray, eventually invaded surrounding pots. What of it I've > got outside has even survived being frozen solid and light snowfall. I have actually collected ICY sphagnum because it is easy to break into peaces.. (-15-20 C). No problems, once it is melting it is living again.. BTW, I mentioned earlier that I will try to grow my _Nepenthes ampullaria_ in windowsill without any coverage.. it has been now over a month in such conditions in my office window and bringing up new leaves.. and growing new pitchers! The humidity is about 40%, temperature 20 C and light moderate. ..Pekka ______________________________________________________ Pekka Ala-Siuru Senior Analyst, Embedded Knowledge-Based Systems VTT Electronics, P.O.Box 1100, FIN-90571, Oulu,Finland Tel. +358 81 551 2461, Telefax +358 81 551 2320 ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 03:55:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Sponge You wrote: >Asbestopluma and hasn't been named yet. > >I guess sooner or later this little guy might find itself in the possession >of a CP enthusiast. :-) > >Doug Bosco (bosco@interaccess.com) > > > Doug your note was interesting, thanks for the info. Why would you think CP'ers would want to grow sponges? They are not even plants. To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Anyone want to grow a carnivorous dog I have? ;-). Sorry,Doug...just a joke. -- ################### From: korfhage@lis.pitt.edu (robert korfhage) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 08:04:53 EST Subject: germination & baggies As many of you probably know (at least those of you in the U.S.) Ziploc now has on the market some vegetable baggies, which feature 'micropores' to control the humidity in the bag. While these were designed for storing vegetables in the refrigerator, it has occurred to me that they might be good for germinating seeds. Does anyone have experience and/or advice on this? Thanks! Bob Korfhage korfhage@lis.pitt.edu ################### From: Michael Livingston Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 08:52:50 PST Subject: Carnivorous Dog >To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Anyone want to grow a carnivorous dog I have? What, are you offering tissue cultures? M ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:13:50 -0500 Subject: Re: CP Confiscation > I would definitely advise everyone to NOT collect live plants in the > field. In the US at least, you are violating international law > (CITES), IRS regulations (Tax Evasion of undeclared goods), and Customs > Regulations (Smuggling). Several countries have occasionally > intercepted illegal plant mailings and are pushing for maximum > enforcement of CITES law. Anyone who has been to Malaysia, etc, is > subject to scrutiny. Once you get a CITES inspector in your house, > they have every authority to impound all plant material on the CITES > list that does not have valid import certificates. (do you have CITES > paperwork for you N.khasiana?) Inspectors are notoriously bad taxonomists, > and are quite likely to impound anything possessing a pitcher. > > Collecting live Nepenthes from the field is particularly bad practice > because such plants cannot be tissue cultured (due to fungal > contamination). Such plants contribute little to further propagation of > the species (except for pollen and seed production years down the line). > Wild collected plants often do not adapt to cultivation and die. Seed > grown under cultivated conditions is genetically selected towards > cultivation conditions (assuming only a small percent of the seed > actually germinates). > > Seed collection, with permits, is the only acceptible way to import > endangered plant material. > > >From Tom (in Fl): > > Personally I have no knowledge of this happening or even any situation > > which would allow it to happen. Property laws are pretty strong here > > in the US. I know of no situation which would allow the wholesale > > confiscation of personal property. > > Cars, houses, boats, planes, and bank accounts are routinely taken away > by the police if there is a suspicion (even unproven) of laundering drug > money. If you are rich, and are found with marijuana, some juridictions > will happily finance their police department by confiscation. In the > US, having an in-vitro flask with 500 identifiable Hemp plants merits a > mandatory federal death penalty. I never knew this. >Here in the Pacific Northwest, picking > the wrong wild mushroom is counted as possession of a Schedule I drug, > and is subject to prosecution as a Felony (imprisonment and property > forfeiture). There is trend to make these penalties mandatory, so that > judges have no leeway to use common sense. > > I readily admit that there are stupid laws (CITES, etc), but we should > work to change them, rather than to break them. > > -- > Rick Walker > Yes, drug confiscation laws do preempt property laws here in the US. I guess I thought we were talking about Cps. :) As far as collecting from the field, you are not to my understanding violating CITES, IRS or Customs - you may be if you then tried to smuggle them out of the country for profit. But only if they are listed in CITES. (This is not to say that field collection is ethical or good or whatever.) As far as regulators storming down the door, I would guess it is possible, but does anyone have any first hand knowledge of it happening for a noncommercial enthusiast? I'm working from common sense not experience, but it just doesnm't seem likely to me. Tom in Florida ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:21:40 -0500 Subject: Re: NEW: heterotrophic animal!!! > Doug, > > >It is a deep-sea sponge, normally found between 100 and 8840 meters in the > >Northern Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, >I guess sooner or later this little guy might find itself in the possession > >of a CP enthusiast. :-) > > Never. Only in the possession of a CA enthusiast (sponges are still rather > straightforward animals, or do you want to lump the kingdoms?). > > Kind regards > Jan Picky, picky, picky, animal, plant, whats the difference? :) ################### From: "Walter Greenwood" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:31:04 EST5EDT Subject: Re: Carnivorous Sponge > ... Why would you think > CP'ers would want to grow sponges? They are not even plants. Don't put me in a pidgeon hole! I'd be willing to bet that a lot of us "grow" animals too. I have iguanas, ducks, goats, horses, and hedgehogs, just to name a few. Animals are fun too. Besides, when they die, you can feed them to your plants. A good sized Bassett hound can keep a _d. pulchella_ happy for years! And, yes, way back in my marine aquarium phase, I had live sponges. I even had baby octopi in the ninth grade. :-) wg ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 10:08:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: NC Poaching Laws/Tangential to CP Hi Folks, A problem I see with trying to obtain a retroactive CITES permit is that you don't know how the office will react. They may thank you for your concern and send you a permit. Or they may say sorry, but we have to confiscate the plant(s) :-(! Property seizure by the North Carolina Fish and Wildlife service can include any property used while committing a violation. Example: Poachers are shooting deer 1) at night, 2) from a boat, 3) using high-powered lights (1,2,3 are illegal here). They load the deer into the boat and are spotted by Wildlife Officers. The officers wait until the poachers have loaded their boat onto a boat trailer hitched to a truck. They are *then* arrested found guilty, fined *and* forfeit their guns, boat, trailer, and truck since all of these were used in the commission of a crime. I think the fine is small, but the total forfeiture was better than US$20,000. Similar penalties have been imposed for killing nesting sea turtles, and recently for tuna poaching. The laws governing Dionaea poaching have been strengthened and may now (hopefully) carry this threat. Take care! Jeff in North Carolina ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:15:04 GMT+1 Subject: Re: CP Confiscation >... but > does anyone have any first hand knowledge of it happening for a noncommercial > enthusiast? I'm working from common sense not experience, but it just doesnm't > seem likely to me. The reason I asked was simply because of rumours. The whole thing sounded strange to me and therefor I wanted to know more. But possibly it's nothing more than rumours. All the best Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany E-Mail: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 08:15:23 CST Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects... In Message Thu, 9 Feb 1995 17:51:27 -0800, blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) writes: >According to Peter Cole: >> >> >> I'll try a systemic if it ever happens again - 'natural' >> growing's got its place, but if these !@#$%s show up again >> they're toast! >> >> > > >Amen to that :-) > >> That may have been the ones - some of them were sort of fluffy >> and white - I'd thought those were larvae, but they might have >> been a different species. >> >> > > >No they sound more little the second rider in the sap sucking >apocalypse: mealy bugs. Fortunately they can also be controlled by a >systemic poison. On the subject of systemic poisons, I have applied >the recommended strength of Rogor to all my plants (sarra, drosera, >vft, nepenthes) with no obvious effect on the plants. Just watch those >handling instructions though, these poisons are rather nasty and even a >mild dose can give you symptoms very much like a very bad >cold/influenza i.e. aching joints, headaches, lethargy. > >-- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries >=============================================================================== >"Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" > - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury I've had great success w/ Safers insecticidal soap against aphids, thrips, mealy bugs and scale. I buy the weaker concentration they sell for use on fruits and vegetables. This stuff is not only much safer for the grower, but I would also like to point out that our concern for the environment and the endangered cp species we all love should not end with the plants. Polluting this beautiful yet finite planet with horribly toxic chemicals that endanger ourselves and other organisms is a facet of the same consciousness that sees no consequences in filling in wetlands, pirating stands of endangered cp's, or the logging and burning of tropical rainforests from Kalimantan to Brazil to Madagascar. The Earth has a way of regaining its equilibrium when disturbed. But if we disturb the current equilibrium too greatly, we won't be part of the overall equation when equilibrium is restored. Our plants suffer and die from insect infestation when they are already weakened from growing in less than ideal situations. First we should strive to provide the plants with a home where they can thrive. If they need defending from some kind of infestation, we should seek the least toxic solution. Every organism on the planet would benefit if we ALL approached life here from this perspective. My 2 cents worth...Happy growing! PS. I should also add that my truly mercenary brother has found this same approach to work with great success in his gardening and landscaping business on the Big Island in Hawaii, where he swears there is an invasion of some newly introduced "pest" at least every 2 months. John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:18:07 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Sponge >... > they die, you can feed them to your plants. A good sized Bassett > hound can keep a _d. pulchella_ happy for years! > ...not just years......, decades or even centuries....;-) Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany E-Mail: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:29:23 GMT+1 Subject: Re: Hmmmmmm (also Neps and Scale) > >I have a question for you pest experts. On a few of my Nepenthes, > there are > >these little bitty white things on the tendrils. Sometimes they appear > >around spots on the leaves. They don't seem to be alive. They don't > ************S N I P************ > > It sounds like the scurge of Nep growers everywhere....Snow Scale....! A > creature delivered by the Antichrist if there ever was one! Do they have > a kinda grey sheen? Are they sort of cylindrical (maybe bent into ess's I have not followed this thread and therefor my suggestion might be a repeat....(sorry in this case). In case of scale insects and their relatives, Malathion works quite well. It's not as dangerous as these little blue beads you can put onto the soil (their name in Germany is Temik and I guess it's the same you mentioned). Temik horribly poisonous and a very good cure for Nematodes but for the danger I would not use it in case of pests which are more easy to control. Another cure for scale insects and relatives is a special kind of mineral oil. I did not dare to use it so far......;-) ....but I know several people who told me they use it with good success. Bye Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany E-Mail: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 ################### From: R5M@aol.com Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 11:46:08 -0500 Subject: Re: CITES >. I >know of no situation which would allow the wholesale confiscation of personal >property. >Tom in Fl Oh, Tom, apparently you have never seen a pot bust in Humbolt. Becky in the tule fog ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:11:00 -0500 Subject: Hmmmmmm (also Neps an JL>It sounds like the scurge of Nep growers everywhere....Snow JL>Scale....! A creature delivered by the Antichrist if there ever was JL>one! Do they have a kinda grey sheen? Are they sort of cylindrical JL>(maybe bent into ess's or ell's)? Is there a tiny necrotic (yellow JL>or black spot) under each one? If so....you've got the plague. How big are these things? Can they be spread out over the leaves? A more exact description would be useful - I am afraid I may have them too! Greg Long greg.long@factory.com --- . POW 1.1 0043 . A belly button is for salt when you eat celery in bed. ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 10:34:00 CST Subject: Re: Hmmmmmm (also Neps and Scale) In Message Fri, 10 Feb 1995 08:35:23 -0800, "Andreas Wistuba" writes: > >> >I have a question for you pest experts. On a few of my Nepenthes, >> there are >> >these little bitty white things on the tendrils. Sometimes they appear >> >around spots on the leaves. They don't seem to be alive. They don't >> ************S N I P************ >> >> It sounds like the scurge of Nep growers everywhere....Snow Scale....! A >> creature delivered by the Antichrist if there ever was one! Do they have >> a kinda grey sheen? Are they sort of cylindrical (maybe bent into ess's > > >I have not followed this thread and therefor my suggestion might be a >repeat....(sorry in this case). > >In case of scale insects and their relatives, Malathion works quite >well. It's not as dangerous as these little blue beads you can put >onto the soil (their name in Germany is Temik and I guess it's the >same you mentioned). Temik horribly poisonous and a very good cure >for Nematodes but for the danger I would not use it in case of pests >which are more easy to control. >Another cure for scale insects and relatives is a special kind of >mineral oil. I did not dare to use it so far......;-) ....but I know >several people who told me they use it with good success. > >Bye > >Andreas > > > Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany >E-Mail: a.wistuba@dkfz-Heidelberg.de / a.wistuba@carnivor.rhein-neckar.de >Phone: +49-621-705471 Fax: +49-621-711307 A great remedy for nematodes is ground shrimp shells. You can keep them in the freezer till you're ready to grind them up. The presence of the shells causes a population explosion of a bacteria which digests chiton. These bacteria in turn eat the eggs of the nematodes. A great trick I learned in Hawaii where nematodes can be a problem. Another 2 cents worth... John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 10:36:02 CST Subject: Re: CITES In Message Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:22:18 -0800, R5M@aol.com writes: >>. I >>know of no situation which would allow the wholesale confiscation of >personal >>property. > >>Tom in Fl > >Oh, Tom, apparently you have never seen a pot bust in Humbolt. >Becky in the tule fog And getting ones property back if found innocent can be a problem at best. John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 11:11:00 -0500 Subject: Mineral content of peat Hello, I have a question that came up in a discussion with another faculty member. We both work with heavy metal toxicity and started discussing the sensitivity of CP to minerals and the fact that these plants grow in acid peat and should be watered with distilled or deionized water. My question is this: Does peat contain a lot of soluble minerals and metals or few? Metals are much more soluble in acid conditions than at neutral or basic pH. But if there are already a lot of dissolved minerals/metals then why the concern about watering with mineral free water? Or in a peat bog are there actually fewer dissolved minerals because of the chronic acidic conditions (the minerals are 'washed out')? Any information or references about this would be very helpful. We had even discussed the possibility of doing a nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) study on some roots and add various metals and watch for changes in intracellular pH and metal composition, comparing CP roots to 'normal' plant roots. Greg Long greg.long@factory.com --- . POW 1.1 0043 . "We must laugh at man, to avoid crying for him" Napoleon ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:52:18 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Miscellaneous > As far as St. Petersburg, Marie Baumgarthl(sp) of Maire's Orchids is > in St. Pete. The USF botanical garden in Tampa has a small > collection of plants just started. Selby Gardens (maybe 1/2 or 2 > hours South) has a number of Neps. and Sarrs. altho few are > displayed. Selby Garden has their twice annual sale sometime in the > spring, as does the USF Botanical Garden, both offer a big variety of > all kinds of plants. > > Tom in Florida where it is cold! Hello Tom in Florida, I hope you don't mind me contacting you like this, but I didn't want to clutter up the list with a question like this. You wouldn't happen to have the address for Marie's Orchids, would you? I checked the sellerlist on here, and "Gardening by Mail", and can't find it. I figured I could check the St. Pete phone book, but I don't have one handy, and would like to get some idea where it's located. Also, do you have any idea what they sell? I got the impression from the sellerlist that it was very little other than nepenthes, but it could be out of date by now. Thanks. --CW ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:29:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Miscellaneous > Hello Tom in Florida, I hope you don't mind me contacting you like > this, but I didn't want to clutter up the list with a question like > this. You wouldn't happen to have the address for Marie's Orchids, > would you? I checked the sellerlist on here, and "Gardening by Mail", > and can't find it. I figured I could check the St. Pete phone book, > but I don't have one handy, and would like to get some idea where it's > located. Also, do you have any idea what they sell? I got the > impression from the sellerlist that it was very little other than > nepenthes, but it could be out of date by now. Thanks. --CW > > CW: I don't have Marie's address available here, I'll try to remember to bring it in. I don't know what Marie has for sale right now, she is more into orchids and Neps than anything else. Very nice woman tho, her son Bill was the one running for ICPS prez. Tom in Fl ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:18:47 -1000 Subject: Re: new subscriber > Hi if this is reaching anyone please respond. > > > got your mail... Earl ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:02:48 -0800 Subject: Re: The Book Dear Pat, > Here is the abbreviated, tentative, chapter outline I promised. > > Chapter 1. Intro: > Chapter 2. Lists: > Chapter 3. Descriptions: > Chapter 4. Keys: > Chapter 5. Natural history/ecology: > Chapter 6. Distribution: > Chapter 7. Culture/Propagation: > Chapter 8. Bibliographies: > Chapter 9: Illustrations: I am excited about your book proposal, and hope to see it eventually in print. What I want to do in this note is to explain why I think the monograph / database project is the most appropriate way to initially collect the information for such a book. Because the CP WEB page is on the internet, it allows collaboration across many countries, and facilitates contributions from experts world-wide. The monograph project is well underway by the German Plant Society, which have agreed to allow their work to be translated to english and integrated into the CP database. Although there is no work currently underway outside of Germany, I hope that CP enthusiasts in the US and other countries will soon start to contribute. Secondly, the state of the art in taxonomy and horticulture is a moving target. The WEB page is a "living" entity that can be kept constantly up-to-date with new developments. A book starts going stale the moment it is printed, so is most useful for describing a stable body of knowledge. (But I suppose you can always have 1st, 2nd, 3rd editions! :-)). The long-term plan (maybe 1-2 years out from now) is to press a CD-ROM of the WEB page, making it cheaply available for use on Macintosh and MSDOS computers. I expect that such a disc could be sold for ~$20 US, and could be distributed to enthusiasts, libraries, high schools, etc. This disk could contain about 1.5 Gigabytes of information, including 3000 color pictures - ( a very big book indeed!). Except for the indexing feature, most of this data will not be "heavy-duty" hypertext, allowing the database to be published in paper form, with a conventional table of contents and index. One critique I have of your chapter proposal is that it is organized by topic rather than species. I am constantly annoyed by Slack's books that are split into two sections: descriptions, and cultivation information. To find information on one specific species, I'm sent on a treasure hunt across multiple chapters. Your proposal would further split things up into even more divisions. Just think - if you want to be *complete*, you will need to list all 800+ species at least 9 times - once for each chapter. Just this redundancy could make such a book *very* thick, and hard to use. The monograph approach sounds scholarly and inaccessible, but it really is just a way of saying that all the information about each species is in *one* place (mono=one, graph=writing). All we are trying to do is get volunteers to work on one species at a time, conscientiously research the plant (using Jan's framework as a guideline), and then write it up in *one* place (again using the framework as an outline). These 800+ write-ups (including summary overviews for Genus and Families) will then be accessible as a font of information from which numerous derivative books can be written. There is also room in the database project for Keys, Habitat descriptions, etc. We already have keys for South African, and North American Drosera, and a paper on the ecology of Darlingtonia. Soon we will have copies of Jans's comprehensive Drosera key. Although not yet on the WEB page, the CP archive maintains growlists for members of the CP mailing list, and also contains current pricelists for most major CP suppliers. This information will eventually be accessible through the WEB page, and will be constantly updated. Finally, the nomenclature for Nepenthes and Sarracenia hybrids is a terrible wreck. We need is a central clearing house for maintaining records and names for cultivars, hybrids and clones. The CPN can serve the role of publishing new names, but the database is the ideal clearing house for maintaining the names in a public way. Please don't take these comments as an "attack" - I'm simply giving you my "spin" on things so that we can work towards the most productive synthesis of our ideas and skills. I'm looking forward to hearing more of your views, and I'm hoping we can find a way to work towards a common goal! Best regards, -- Rick Walker ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 15:34 EST Subject: Minerals and CP > > > Hello, > > I have a question that came up in a discussion with another faculty > member. We both work with heavy metal toxicity and started discussing > the sensitivity of CP to minerals and the fact that these plants grow in > acid peat and should be watered with distilled or deionized water. If I recall correctly, I believe Dr. Beaman mentioned that (many) Nepenthes species on Mt. Kinabalu grow in the vicinity of ultramafic (serpentine) soils. Michael ################### From: Christopher Waldrop Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:02:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: Tom and Krissy, Although it may not be safe to send you my pings for another week or so, I've noticed that both are going to bloom a second time (very strange--I didn't know P. caerulea was so free-flowering) within about a month's time (based on the amount of time it took the previous flowers to develop from buds at the center of the plant) so hopefully there will be another opportunity. I've considered trying to do the pollination myself, but the pistils (pollen bearing parts, right?) are harder to get at than they were on D. capillaris (which turned out to be self-pollinating anyway). Also, the procedure as described in Schnell's book was a bit difficult to follow, but I'm going to give it a shot all the same; if it doesn't work, I'll send them on to you. By the way, how well does this species do from leaf-cuttings? Thanks. --CW ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 16:30:12 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Field Collecting I have been following the thread *CP Confiscation* with some interest. In one of Rick Walker's replies, he recommended against field collecting of plants. I think that I can elaborate on the consequenses of field collecting in Florida. Recently, I asked a representative of the DPI (Division of Plant Industries) in the Dept of Agriculture in Florida to come to a meeting of the Suncoast Native Plant Society in Tampa. We asked them for a presentation on the law in Florida as it concerns taking plant material from *the wild*. The nitty-gritty of Florida law is that it is illegal to take *ANY* plant material from anyone elses property without the property owners' written permission. *ANY* includes seeds, leaves, cuttings, whole plants, etc. In addition, if the plant species is listed as endangered on the state or federal list, you must also apply for and receive and have in your possession a permit to harvest endangered plants or parts thereof. ( This is form PI-51 Rev 10/92 ) This permit application is processed by the DPI. And they do not *have* to issue such a permit although if the property owner is agreeable, and you have enough information and the information is correct, you will probably get the permit. (It is worth noting, that almost every species of CP in Florida is either listed as endangered or threatened.) In addition, if the plant species is listed as *commercially exploited*, you must have a permit to harvest 3 or more plants or parts threrof. (This is form PI-133 Rev 5/94) At this time there are 12 species on the commercially exploited list in Florida. This application is also processed by DPI. These permit regulations are in response to "... the *Preservation of the Native Flora of Florida* law, section 581.185 of the Florida Statutes and Rule Chapter 5B-40. The purpose is to prevent the wanton destruction of native plants and to encourage propagation and salvage of plants being destroyed through property development. Those persons wishing to deal in endangered plants are encouraged to harvest plants from areas that are being cleared for highways, farming, reforestation, or development. Propagation of endangered plants is encouraged." (Quoted from DPI form PI-51 Rev 10/92) I have participated in one *Plant Rescue* with the proper permits and everything went smoothly. The important thing is to send in the application at least 5 weeks ahead of the scheduled harvest date, so that you can get the permit back in time. It often takes 4 weeks for the permit application to be processed. The penaltied for violation can be severe, monetary fines and/or jail time. I don't know what the law requires in other states, but it is worth while finding out how to do it legally, so that you don't get into serious trouble with the law. - Carl Strohmenger cstrohme@com1.med.usf.edu ################### From: "Warrington, Pat" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 13:31:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: the book Thanks Rick Perhaps I have unwittingly caused some confusion by calling it the _BOOK_. I had always intended it to be an electronic _book_ stored in the CP archives and thus readily and regularly updated. I agree that a paper copy is already history. People can always run off paper copies for interim use, I certainly would, but commercial publishing was not intended. Perhaps I am also jumping the gun. I agree than the monograph database is an ideal source of data from which numerous derivative works could be produced, what I had in mind is one of those derivative works; but we do not yet have the data base. Whenever I do something like this I always agonize over whether to use the monograph format, by species, or the subject format. I am open to suggestions here. I chose the subject format because many people may not care about the taxonomy, description, etc. but only want to know how to grow or tissue culture specimens. This way they only need to retrieve/download/print the chapters of interest. I will give this some more thought and I solicit suggestions from anyone on what would be the most useful format. Pat ################### From: ddls@power.ufscar.br (Denis Luis Paula Santos) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 18:13:23 -0300 Subject: Re: new subscriber Hi Earl ! I'm a new subscriber, tooIf you want to contact me, my address is: Gustavo de Paula Internet: ddls@por.ufscar.br or Candido A. Botelho, 1875 13563-300 Santa Felicia Sao Carlos SP Brazil Phone: +55-162-7263 Happy Growing ! ################### From: "Jeffrey Michael Stein" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:15:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects.. Concerning the discussion on scale and mealybug; Plants have defense systems of their own. However, when grown in large numbers indoors and when the plants are grown in less-than-perfect situations they can become massively infected. For example, have you ever heard of an outdoor plant having a massive scale infestation? It's rare, because the plant's own defenses combined with natural preditors keeps the scale population down. When infestations occur you should always try the safe methods first. Soaps, oil, alcohol, etc are very effective. Toxics chemicals shoudl always be a last ditch effort. Has anyone ever tried using other insects to destroy eat the scale? The MSU Botany Greenhouse manager uses a bug he dubbed 'The Mealybug Terminator' to eat the scale and mealybugs on the Cycads. Maybe it would work on CP. Just a suggestion, JMS ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:12:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: germination & baggies I have been using zipper -type baggies for seed germination for a few months now. A 2 gallon baggie will hold a 6 by 6 starter tray (Half of a regular 6 by 12 tray) although it is difficult getting the tray into the baggie without getting dirt in the zipper, so I have started cutting the starter trays into 3 sections each 4 by 6. Then there is room to put a wood or wire support to hold the plastic above the sprouts (in case the air leaks out of the baggie). I use tap water from the city water supply. It has some chlorine in it which probably serves as a fungicide. So far, I have successfully sprouted several members of the Aster family, some milkweeds, and some members of the Pea family as well as native Blue Curls. I have 2 Lobelia species (L. cardinalis and one of the blue lobelias) in baggies now, but no sprouts yet. same for a couple of morning glory species. I am also trying to get cuttings of wild cotton started in baggies. Results in a few weeks or months. Generally, I store the germination setup in an out of the way, shaded location until I notice sprouts, then I move it to an area with diffuse light. When the sprouts are an inch or so high, I open the baggie and let the humidity level decrease gradually, before removing the tray from the baggie. - Carl On Fri, 10 Feb 1995, robert korfhage wrote: > As many of you probably know (at least those of you in the U.S.) > Ziploc now has on the market some vegetable baggies, which feature > 'micropores' to control the humidity in the bag. While these were > designed for storing vegetables in the refrigerator, it has occurred > to me that they might be good for germinating seeds. Does anyone have > experience and/or advice on this? Thanks! > > Bob Korfhage korfhage@lis.pitt.edu > ################### From: greg.long@factory.com (Greg Long) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 14:26:00 -0500 Subject: germination & baggies RK>As many of you probably know (at least those of you in the U.S.) RK>Ziploc now has on the market some vegetable baggies, which feature RK>'micropores' to control the humidity in the bag. While these were RK>designed for storing vegetables in the refrigerator, it has occurred RK>to me that they might be good for germinating seeds. Does anyone RK>have experience and/or advice on this? Thanks! No I don't have first hand knowledge, but from the commercial I saw on these they are sort of like leaky plastic bags (Dialysis bags). As such they allow the passage of water vapor which has a smaller molecular size than oxygen. It seems that you would simply reach equilibrium with conditions outside the bag (you would actually lose water vapor) over time, and would therefore have lower humidity. Anybody else know anything about these bags? Greg Long greg.long@factory.com --- . POW 1.1 0043 . Powerline Offline reader for Windows - New Windows OLR ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:25:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects.. > When infestations occur you should always try the safe methods first. > Soaps, oil, alcohol, etc are very effective. Toxics chemicals shoudl > always be a last ditch effort. It's a good attitude but sometimes it is not really effective in practice, at least with scale. If the infestation is very light and new, you can sometimes nip it in the bud by just getting the individuals, but too often they are already established and there are lots of tiny larvae and eggs. In this case, with tough things such as scale, the light stuff serves to control them but not eradicate them, and you end up treating over and over and over. For scale I will go ahead and carefully use the nasties. Mealybugs - alcohol will do it but you have to be diligent and spray the whole plant every few days for a couple of weeks, otherwise they will be right back. I like to do a treatment with alcohol, then use Enstar to keep them from returning. (Enstar is a hormone - it doesn't kill the mealybugs, but it sterilizes them and whatever is left dies out without reproducing. Reports of women missing their periods in commercial greenhouses where Enstar is used seem to be botnical "urban legends," and I have never heard of anyone I know having any problems with it. Spider mites - another nasty that often gets controlled but not eradicated. There is one semi-nasty chemical that gets them once and for all, but it is not cheap. It is called "Avid," and only comes in 8-oz bottles that sell for about 90 bucks. The dilution is 1/4 tsp per gallon, so it lasts. :) Other treatments are like throwing rocks at them, Avid is nulear warfare. It kills all the mites and the eggs and I have never had them come back when I use it. (Except in a reinfestation months later.) Has anyone ever tried using other insects to destroy eat the > scale? The MSU Botany Greenhouse manager uses a bug he dubbed 'The Mealybug > Terminator' to eat the scale and mealybugs on the Cycads. Maybe it would work > on CP. I have seen these - it is the larva of a ladybird beetle species from Australia. They look like big fast mealybugs (the curator of the UW greenhouse called them giant racing mealybugs :). They ate the mealybugs but not fast enough to really control them in a greenhouse situation, and they were really expensive too. Maybe on a small scale they would be effective, but I think if I had valuable plants that had scale I would want to nip it in the bud and not risk having it spread to other plants as I was waiting for my order to arrive. They were fun to have around though...it was startling to see this big mealybug take off down a stem at full speed! ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 19:51 EST Subject: RE: Neps and scale insect > ditch effort. Has anyone ever tried using other insects to destroy eat the > scale? The MSU Botany Greenhouse manager uses a bug he dubbed 'The Mealybug > Terminator' to eat the scale and mealybugs on the Cycads. Maybe it would wor > on CP. Uh huh. Is this "Mealybug Terminator" of the new "liquid metal" version, or the old "love bug ladybird" standby? :-) Michael ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 20:14 EST Subject: RE: Gordon Cheers book > From: sportman@students.wisc.edu (Scott Portman) > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: Re: Gordon Cheers Book > X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas > X-Comment: Carnivorous Plants Distribution List > > > John Ford notes that many people have had difficulty locating Gordon > Cheer's Carnivorous Plants of the World. I read about a source here on > this list last Nov - so for those of you who are looking for this book, > here it is again: > > Discount Garden Books > PO Box 8354 > Portland OR 97207-8354 > > The price was $17.95 + $5.00 shipping. I bought a copy - it's worth it for > the fine photographs and cultivation info, but has numerous minor errors. > In particular, some photos are mis-labeled or switched. In one case, the > same photograph is used to illustrate two different species - Genlisea > repens and Utric. quelchii - not even in the same genus! (I recall someone > on the list edited a CP book, and was upset that the publisher disregarded > all their corrections - if this was the book, no offense is intended!) When I saw this message around Jan 20, I ordered the book. It arrived today. This is a very nice CP book, and although I have not read it through, I am _very_ impressed by the photos and presentation. Many of the photos are habitat shots, and most are exceptionaly clear and colorful (uh, except that Triphyophyllum photo). Small distribution maps are provided for the genera. A species list is provided in back (includes species authors on the names, and it also lists hybrids). There is an interesting "field trip" section too. At this price the book is a must-have! (The full title is _Lett's Guide to Carnivorous Plants of the World_, by Gordon Cheers. It has 174 pages and is hardcover, not to be confused with the little paperback _Carnivorous Plants_ by Gordon Cheers.) Michael ################### From: doug.fung@ednet.bc.ca Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 15:28:45 Subject: David wong I'm passing on some information from a CP enthusiast who may be familiar to some of the members of this list. David Wong is temporarily relocating to Singapore to open an office in his firm. David, as some of you may recall, had a break-in last year in which most of his collection was stolen. He has contributed past articles to the CPN and has been growing and trading plants for many years. David has actually been in Singapore since the middle of last year and has made numerous contacts. He will be leaving Vancouver on February 15th and in early March will be on his way to Kinabalu with group from Malaysian Government. This group has all the neccessary documentation and permits to do some collecting in the park! He would like to hear from people who have knowledge of specific locations of plants in the area. Seeds may be available to select individuals. He does not have an e-mail address but can be reached at: SLH International Architects 350 Orchard Road Unit 18-08/10 Shaw House Singapore 0923 Fax (65) 733-0809 I will be seeing him on Sunday and can pass any information or addresses for correspondence if I receive it within the next day or so. ################### From: ddls@power.ufscar.br (Denis Luis Paula Santos) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 23:37:08 -0300 Subject: Who knows other list ? Who knows about a Orchid list ? Please, send me the address. Thank you. :) Gustavo from Brazil ################### From: Aaron Hicks Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 19:17:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects.. I need to get a baaaaad case of scale routed out of my staghorn fern (Platycerium bifurcatum). I don't normally use insecticides, but I have been considering nuking it (it's been going on for 6 years now, and I'm getting pretty tired of it... a systemic infection, really). I would like to know if you could point me along the right route towards appropriating a small amount of Enstar, or any other curatives that might come to mind. I'm in the middle of New Mexico (Welcome To Nowhere), and getting ANYTHING other than a 50# sack of malathion is pretty much out of the question! So, well, er... help! -AJHicks NMTech Dept. of Entropy ################### From: Harold Slater Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 22:30:58 -0500 Subject: Re: S. purpurea -=> Quoting Peredur@usa.net to Multiple Recipients Of Li <=- Pe> Here is yet another question from a complete amateur. I have read Pe> conflicting information about wintering S. purpurea. Some sources Pe> state that the plant requires very cool conditions and recommend Pe> cutting off the pitchers and placing the plant in cool storage. My S. purp. purpurea are grown outside here in Toronto, Canada. They are in a small artifical bog (actually a slowly draining plastic liner) and are not covered by any mulch etc. They have survived very cold (-25c) well with all of the pitchers frozen into brown papery leaves. They always come back fine and grow normally by late May. I cut the dead leaves off before new growth begins in late April to clean them up with no ill effects. Cutting off the leaves before new growth doesn't seem to affect my plants. Harold ... ...working......1,293,383,595,283,503,394 bytes free... ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ################### From: jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 23:03:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Alcohol for Mealies Greetings everyone, lately there has been a lot of discussion about how best to terminate mealies with a lot of people recommending an alcohol spray. As with any treatment, I would recommend a test prior to going full speed ahead with it. While I have used alcohol successfully on mealies on jade plants, orchids and some other tough skinned plants, I have also killed a number of other plants with an alcohol spray. Sensitive plants (both Mimosa pudica and Biophytum sensitivum) do not take kindly to alcohol - the one time I used it on these plants, they were dead in less than 48 hours. The leaves turned yellow less than 24 hours after spraying and fell off by the next day - the plant shriveled on the growing tips and that was that. I have also killed a couple of ferns - Adiantum sp. and Davallia sp. and one totally unknown variety. All of these plants had very delicate foliage and perfer humidity so I think that the spray may have killed by dehydrating the foliage rather than through any direct toxic effect - this is just a hypothesis though, all I know for sure is that all of the plants that died, died almost immediately following the treatment. If this is the case, then some of the more tender leaved Utricularia and Drosera might also be susceptible. Hmmm, come to think of it, I don't remember seening any body mention any insect pests for these genera - are there any? Good growing, John jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 20:29:40 -0800 Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects.. You wrote: > > I need to get a baaaaad case of scale routed out of my staghorn >fern (Platycerium bifurcatum). I don't normally use insecticides, but >I have been considering nuking it (it's been going on for 6 years now, and >I'm getting pretty tired of it... a systemic infection, really). > I would like to know if you could point me along the right route >towards appropriating a small amount of Enstar, or any other curatives >that might come to mind. I'm in the middle of New Mexico (Welcome To Nowhere), > I try to help you out... I'll make a call I have a friend in El Paso.... J -- ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 20:31:18 -0800 Subject: Re: Who knows other list ? You wrote: > Who knows about a Orchid list ? There is a newsgroup rec.gardens.orchids ################### From: "Sharon D. Luedtke \"super mom\"!" Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 00:11:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: new subscriber You are doing fine. The things that seem very hard right now will become second nature to you in a few dozen network hours. Always remember: it's only hard when you don't know how. You will know how very shortly. Best of Luck, SDL ################### From: dave evans Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 00:57 EST Subject: Re: Re: Alcohol for Mealies > immediately following the treatment. If this is the case, then some of > the more tender leaved Utricularia and Drosera might also be susceptible. > Hmmm, come to think of it, I don't remember seening any body mention > any insect pests for these genera - are there any? > > Good growing, > John > jford@ruacad.ac.runet.edu > I have seen aphids on D. capensis, adalae and binata. Once a larva that normally borrows into corn found its way into my CP. There it ate up all of D. indica plants (two big ones some babies) over night. When I found it the next day, I fed it to a VFT from which it promply escaped by chewing its way out and then disappeared. The moral: kill such pests on sight. Dave Evans ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 08:35:45 +0000 Subject: Re: CITES > I have "heard" stories of this sort of thing happening. The story went that > people's N. rajah plants were confiscated if they did not possess the proper > paper work. Government officials were tipped off by another collector who > did have the proper paper work and wanted to be among a select few to > possess this plant. Or you might interpret it as "tipped off by a responsible citizen who had no time for others' flagrant disregard of the laws on trade in endangered species". So get propagating. Grow your plants from seed and cuttings. Swap the resulting plants with others. Build up your collections using your cultivation skills, rather than by using huge amounts of money. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Edi Vache Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 03:26:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Who knows other list ? On Fri, 10 Feb 1995, John Laroche wrote: > You wrote: > > Who knows about a Orchid list ? > There is a newsgroup rec.gardens.orchids there is also an orchid list at MAILSERV@SCUACC.SCU.EDU in the message line put SUBSCRIBE ORCHIDS Cray Fish (or whatever your name is) that should work. if it doesn't, they will send you a message back saying what will. i am unclear as to whether this list is simply postings from the newsgroup or not. overwhelmed w/ millions & millions of other lists & life, always life. your friend -edi ___________________'why be good? be beautiful & be sad!'______cbaudelaire ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:53:25 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 251 To:Rogan Ruth Dear Rogan, Don't know of a seed source but should mention that Aristolochia macrourii (? spelling) has the most Nepenthes-pitcher like flowers I have ever seen, with lid hairs like a Sarr. leuco. Wouldn't surprise me if it trapped insects for pollination. Cliff ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:53:22 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 251, use of cygon To: CPers I noticed some responses to the use of Cygon 2E and I concur that the pes ticide must be used according to directions given, which include full body covering, eye wear and a respirator. I also turn on my greenhouse fans and work away from the exausted air. If reasonable care is taken Cygon is an effective control of scale, thrips, mealys, mites, etc. It is better to use as a spot control rather than a broad drenching for all plants. Florida is likely the pest capital of the U.S. and greenhouse cultivation would be diffic ult without Cygon. As a side note, I have lots of the Cuban Anole, Anolis sagrei, in my greenhouse, also for pest control and have seen there back legs paralyzed after using Cygon (perhaps they drank from puddles). They did recover but:BE CAREFUL! Cliff ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:53:18 -0500 Subject: Re: CP digest 251 to: Christopher Waldrop Dear Christopher, In that part of Florida one of the best botanical places to visit is Marie Selby Botanic Gardens, 800 S. Palm Ave. (? better check), Sarasota, FL. At one time Ron Determann worked there and they had an excellent collection of CP. They sill maintain some Nepenthes, beyond that I'm not sure, but the place is very nice, lots of rare plants, huge tropical display house, and great grounds. The Univ. of South Florida at Tampa also has a nice collection of tropicals and a few CP. We just had a freeze go through Central Florida, so I hope these places are up to par. Cliff ################### From: ddls@power.ufscar.br (Denis Luis Paula Santos) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 19:29:47 -0300 Subject: Re: Who knows other list ? Thank you, Edi. Gustavo. :-) ################### From: ddls@power.ufscar.br (Denis Luis Paula Santos) Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 19:40:51 -0300 Subject: Re: Who knows other list ? Thank you by your information, John. Gustavo. ################### From: ShaktiMan@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:17:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Who knows other list ? To subscribe to the Orchids list, send mail to MAILSERV@SCUACC.SCU.EDU the body of the message should be SUBSCRIBE ORCHIDS ################### From: ShaktiMan@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:14:24 -0500 Subject: Hello everyone Just wanted to say hello to all. I was on this list about a year ago as Mukti. Nice to see it is still going well here. Wayne Blake ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 21:45:36 -0500 Subject: Re: snow scale To: Greg Long Snow scale show up as 1/2 mm long rod-shaped white organisma. They usually appear on the underside of leaves and cause yellowing of the surrounding leaf tissue. By the time you notice one there are often hundreds. They do not seem to spread easily and plants hanging in a greenhouse seperated by a small gap is often enough to prevent spread. I have not noticed them to be spread by ants. These things are a bear to get rid of. Repeated application of at least 2 systemics is suggested. Cutting off and destroying infected leaves first will reduce the population but in itself is not an effect control as the scales will get into the leaf axils, between pitchers and tendils, etc. The best preventative is removal of old leaves and pitchers and not overcrowding the growing area, something I am guilty of. N. mirabilis is a favorite target, as is albo-marginata. They also have a taste for Sarracenia and a wide range of ornimental plants. Removing hosts plants from your growing area is a good idea. I have seem them from Florida to Maryland.If all else fails.....napalm. Good growing Cliff ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 14:40:49 +0000 Subject: New subscribers It seems to me that almost every new subscriber at some point posts a message asking whether we have seen their posts. These unfortunately usually result in a series of replies to the list, which are a waste of time to most of us, and might not reach the person asking, if for some reason they are having mail problems. Please try to mail any responses direct to the person asking. I suspect the reason we get these messages is that a new subscriber's mail status is set to NOACK, so their own messages are not sent back to them. Can this be clearly pointed out in the new subscriber info? If you *do* want to see your own messages, then mail to listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com putting: set CP mail ACK in the body of the message. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 14:58:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects.. > Has anyone ever tried using other insects to destroy eat the > > scale? The MSU Botany Greenhouse manager uses a bug he dubbed 'The > > Mealybug Terminator' to eat the scale and mealybugs on the Cycads. > > Maybe it would work on CP. > > > I have seen these - it is the larva of a ladybird beetle species from > Australia... The usual one is called Cryptolaemus, I believe. I am yet to be convinced that predator insects can be a success in amateur greenhouses - maybe they are OK on huge comercial monocultures of e.g. tomatoes. The predators always seem to have a disadvantage e.g. they breed slower than the pest unless the temperature is higher than it is in my greenhouse. In the case of Cryptolaemus, the adult beetles can fly out of the greenhouse if they have chance. I'd love to use these if it was certain to work, but you can't wait for your plants to die while you experiment. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 15:18:40 -0800 Subject: Re: CP digest 255 Clark wrote: > I suspect the reason we get these messages is that a new subscriber's > mail status is set to NOACK, so their own messages are not sent back > to them. Can this be clearly pointed out in the new subscriber info? Here's a quote from the .welcome message that has been sent to every subscriber since 1/6/95: Notice that the default mode for your account does NOT send you a carbon copy of your postings. This is to cut down on email clutter. If you don't like this, you can change it by using the "SET CP MAIL ACK" command. -- Rick Walker ################### From: fbroom@HRR1.HORT.CRI.NZ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 1:58:36 +1200 Subject: Gordon Cheers Book I got a copy of this from the local library over the weekend. The illustrations seem excellent, but the proofreading seems to have been a bit superficial. What about the taxonomic accuracy? Fraser Broom HortResearch Hamilton New Zealand "broomf@hort.cri.nz" ################### From: Alexander Salomon Date: Sun, 12 Feb 95 20:43:08 EST Subject: Heat Mats I have found that bottom heat is beneficial for germinating some CP seeds. I currently have one multi tap thermostat and one heat mat and would like to add an additional 2 or 3 heat mats but not a t a cost of $35 apiece. Is there any way to build your own? Will the cheap drug store heating pads use the thermosta t or will I succeed only in creating a horrible fire hazard? -alex ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 21:48:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: PETER PAULS Please, please, natural gas is very lethal to plants. To the dismay of many Victorian gardeners, the early natural gas lines in cities leaked like crazy. Even small amounts seeping up into greenhouses wiped out many collections. So, if you have natural gas, your houseplants are sick, and your silver tarnishes like crazy; have your house checked for a natural gas leak. Happy trapping, Chelsie ################### From: "Charlotte Vandaveer (BIO)" Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 23:19:46 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects.. Concerning mealybugs and scale, I purchased a great gadget called a Water Wand for Spider Mites. It attaches to the end of the hose and produces a fine but powerful mist. I have used it at home and at the USF Bot Garden to knock scale, mealybugs and spidermites off of plants. You have to use it on a regular basis and if you knock the nasties off before the infestation gets too bad, you won't need chemicals. The wands are made by Walter Vinton in Springfield, Mo. (417) 862-4666. Happy trapping, Chelsie ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:51:42 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Mineral content of peat According to Greg Long: > >My question is this: Does peat contain a lot of soluble minerals and >metals or few? Metals are much more soluble in acid conditions than at >neutral or basic pH. But if there are already a lot of dissolved >minerals/metals then why the concern about watering with mineral free >water? Or in a peat bog are there actually fewer dissolved minerals >because of the chronic acidic conditions (the minerals are 'washed >out')? > IMHO the only reason for watering with de-ionised/distilled/(maybe)rain-water is to minimise the build up of salts in the peat. Since the common method for watering CP's is a tray then there is not much chance for any salts to be flushed out of the system so they just build up. In extreme emergencies I have had to resort to using Adelaide tap water on my plants this stuff is notorious for dissolved salts and the like. After a few days of using boiled Adelaide water (I boiled it to try and get rid of the chlorine and so on) I noticed a white deposit on the top of the peat in some pots. A quick taste showed that it was common salt (Sodium Chloride). When I got some rainwater I flushed all my plants by top watering without a tray to get rid of the salt. Needless to say my plants were not too happy about the high salt diet. I personally use rainwater which is not too bad here in South Australia (not too much pollution). I could use distilled/deionised but I don't think I could afford my plants' 10-20 litre a day summer habit - evaporation is something viscous here in summer time. Speaking of which it was supposed to be 37 deg C today, I think it made it :-) -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 16:07:26 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Hmmmmmm (also Neps and Scale) According to Andreas Wistuba: > >In case of scale insects and their relatives, Malathion works quite >well. Hmmmm I thought that malathion was more for spraying things and were not as effective for scale/mealy-bugs because both have a waxy coating that prevented them being wetted and hence picking up the poison. I think the actual toxin is the same, or at least the same family - i.e. anticholinesterase. From what I understand of biology (not much) cholinesterase is the stuff used to transfer nerve impulses from one nerve cell to the next, the poison in rogor/malathion/di-systron interferes with this so it acts like a "nerve gas" >Another cure for scale insects and relatives is a special kind of >mineral oil. I did not dare to use it so far......;-) ....but I know >several people who told me they use it with good success. > Yeah, it's normally called "white oil" and is quite effective in killing scale. My SO uses it on her Cymbidium orchids, I have no experience with anything more delicate. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: "Kneen, John X2820" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 08:58:00 PST Subject: mealy bugs Hi all A while back my CP's were suffering from mealy bug attacks. I lost quite a few plants and in particular a range of Sarracenia. The mealy bugs came back a few weeks ago, but so did a pair of praying mantis - which now inhabit my collection. The mealy bugs vanished (the mantis's got fatter) & I have even caught both mantis's fishing for bugs in my Sarracenias. Seems to be quite a beneficial relationship. John ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 07:57:59 GMT Subject: wordsearch Well, last month's wordsearch got a good response ( and was won by Jan Schlauer, ) so I thought I'd post another one to tax a few more brain cells. As usual, all words are in straight lines horizontally, vertically or diagonally, forwards or backwards, and you may want to consult a book if your taxonomy's a little shaky ( feel free - I did to construct it. ) no spelling mistakes this time :) There are 19 specific names hidden in this grid. I could tell you which genus of CPs they all belong to, but I'm not going to - I'm kinda mean that way :) R S I S N E P A C A S G O U A P S I R A E N I L T P L A T Y S T I G M A U Y L T T S I A A L R N N G I H R A D N L I O D D M S U R E T A B C F U I A U L L E A L A A I L F E P A A I P I E B L I O A E T L E W S C P I G L I N A A C I D N I F E I N T E R M E D I A L R A N A I N O S R E D N A First complete and correct list of names, and the name of the genus to which they all belong, into my mailbox wins, umm... fame, glory, the usual sorta stuff... I'll announce the winner in a few days. Have fun, Peter Peter Cole | carnivor@bunyip.demon.co.uk | Don't look a gift tiger in Swansea, WALES | | the mouth... ################### From: blymn@awadi.com.AU (Brett Lymn) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 19:27:23 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: Neps and scale insects... According to John Phillips: > >I've had great success w/ Safers insecticidal soap against aphids, thrips, >mealy bugs and scale. I buy the weaker concentration they sell for use on >fruits and vegetables. This stuff is not only much safer for the grower, but >I would also like to point out that our concern for the environment and the >endangered cp species we all love should not end with the plants. I agree with you - I have tried all sorts of things to get rid of some bugs but there comes a time where I have to choose between something more toxic and losing my plant. Me, being biassed towards the plant, chooses to not sacrifice a plant. When I have an alternative I always choose the least toxic one - using poisons is a real hassle and I hate the rigmorole involved with them. Also the poisons I use, I believe, breakdown quickly and are in a closed system so the possibility of them getting where I don't want them is small - I also favour systemic rather than sprays as I can control the systemic application to where I want it. > Polluting >this beautiful yet finite planet with horribly toxic chemicals that endanger >ourselves and other organisms is a facet of the same consciousness that sees >no consequences in filling in wetlands, pirating stands of endangered cp's, >or the logging and burning of tropical rainforests from Kalimantan to Brazil >to Madagascar. Ummm I can see what you are saying but you need to be careful - some people may not. > The Earth has a way of regaining its equilibrium when >disturbed. But if we disturb the current equilibrium too greatly, we won't >be part of the overall equation when equilibrium is restored. Something along the lines of "You throw Mother Nature out the window and she comes back through the door with a pitchfork" - I cannot remember who said this but it is very true. > Our plants suffer and die from insect infestation when they are already >weakened from growing in less than ideal situations. First we should strive >to provide the plants with a home where they can thrive. My plants are already stressed - they live in plastic pots rather than the ground. From my experience with all sorts of plants there is really no substitute for real soil under their roots. They may do fine in a pot but it's not the same. > If they need >defending from some kind of infestation, we should seek the least toxic >solution. Every organism on the planet would benefit if we ALL approached >life here from this perspective. I agree wholeheartedly. I use poison only as the last resort not my first defence but you must remember that in most regions they plants are not native and the predators that control the bugs are not present so there is nothing to control their population. >My 2 cents worth...Happy growing! My AUS$0.027 worth reply :-) >PS. I should also add that my truly mercenary brother has found this same >approach to work with great success in his gardening and landscaping >business on the Big Island in Hawaii, where he swears there is an invasion >of some newly introduced "pest" at least every 2 months. > We got a chicken and a duck to cope with the garden pests - they do the job very well. -- Brett Lymn, Computer Systems Administrator, AWA Defence Industries =============================================================================== "Also, it takes a lot longer to get up North ..... The slow way" - "Clever Trevor" Ian Drury ################### From: WELCH@NIEHS.NIH.GOV Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 08:45:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dutchman's Pipe/Aristolochia Is A. macrourii substantially different from A. elegans (seeds available from Doug Rowland)? Jeff in North Carolina ################### From: "John Phillips" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 08:49:10 CST Subject: Re: CITES In Message Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:34:40 -0800, Clarke Brunt writes: >> I have "heard" stories of this sort of thing happening. The story >> went that people's N. rajah plants were confiscated if they did not >> possess the proper paper work. Government officials were tipped off >> by another collector who did have the proper paper work and wanted to >> be among a select few to possess this plant. > > >Or you might interpret it as "tipped off by a responsible citizen who >had no time for others' flagrant disregard of the laws on trade in >endangered species". > >So get propagating. Grow your plants from seed and cuttings. Swap the >resulting plants with others. Build up your collections using your >cultivation skills, rather than by using huge amounts of money. > >-- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) The siezed plants I mentioned above were obtained through trade w/ other growers and were originally grown from cuttings. Because the cuttings were traded between friends and acquaintances, they hadn't bothered w/ any paper work. Peter D'Amato of California Carnivores was the person who recounted this story to me. Plants seized in government raids are usually destroyed rather than given to a botanical garden or reintroduced to the wilds. John Phillips UCSF Health Sciences Library Rm 202 Interlibrary Loan (415) 476-8383 ################### From: RPVT@cbs.nl Date: 13 Feb 1995 18:01:26 MET Subject: Unexpected Aristolochia reaxion for Rogan To : Rogan Ruth From : Rolf R. van de Pavert (rpvt@cbs.nl) via CP-list Subject: Aristolochia CP digest 251 Dear Rogan, The answer Cliff sent you was found by me. Maybe the following is of interest to you. (1) Through the Botanical Garden of Amsterdam University I have obtained a checklist of Aristolochia species. I believe I had it scanned in. If you're interested I'll find it for you. (2) I know for a fact that the BG of the UoA sell seeds of 3 or four species of A. (I've bought some packages for a friend). (3) I remember seeing a slideshow at our local orchid chapter that featured a shot of an insect that got its tongue trapped in such a way that it had to pull very hard and was forced to carry away a pollinium (pollen package). I seem to remember that this concerned some species of Asclepias. I'd have to look it up. I did not see your actual question but Judging from Cliff's reaxion this might be of interest. ======================================================================== Rolf R. van de Pavert Office: Home: -------------------------- ----------------------- Statistics Netherland Div. LMI: Dept Nature PO Box 959 Meppelrade 13 2273 XZ Voorburg 2544 XL The Hague The Netherlands The Netherlands RPVT@CBS.NL Tel: 070-3673557 ======================================================================== ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 11:49:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Introduction Re: > > My name is Ronnie Spears. I am a graduate student at Georgia >Southern University. I only have a hobbyist interest in CP, but I do know >several that are working on pitcher plants here. > Ronnie, Joe (J.T.) Mullins and I are trying to figure out everyone who is doing academic work on Nepenthes. I'm pretty sure you meant that people there are working on Saracenias, but I thought I'd check anyway. I should get their names anyway, if that's O.K., as some of our interests may overlap despite the different genera. Thanks, Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, Castetter Hall, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 Wk: (505) 277-0683 Home: (505) 255-2176 E-mail: cfrazie@unm.edu ################### From: "Paul Temple" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:04:25 +0000 Subject: Correction? Lecoufle! +---------------------------+ TM From: Paul Temple | | | | | | | | Dept: Digital | d | i | g | i | t | a | l | Func: Net Comms | | | | | | | | DTN: 7781-1582 +---------------------------+ Easynet: fangio::temple_p Internet: temple_p@bst.dec.com Loc/MS: UCG A "reliable" source had informed me that Marcel Lecoufle (famed CP, Bromeliad and Orchid lover) had died. I now receive subsequent confirmation that he is very much in good health. Evidently a different M Lecoufle, equally interested in flora, was the unlucky person who really did move on. Since my most recent contact knows someone who actually spoke to Marcel, I tend to think this update is more reliable than the initial story. So, for once, I can use that age old saying to express frustration and truth in one go, so ..... .....c'est la vie. Regards Paul ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:38:47 -0800 Subject: Re: Correction? Lecoufle! You wrote: >A "reliable" source had informed me that Marcel Lecoufle (famed CP, >Bromeliad and Orchid lover) had died. > >I now receive subsequent confirmation that he is very much in good >health. Evidently a different M Lecoufle, equally interested in flora, >was the unlucky person who really did move on. >Marcel, >I tend to think this update is more reliable than the initial story. >>Paul > > REALLY? GREAT! If someone saved the comments we made about him...he would get a kick out of seeing them... ################### From: Sabercat@ix.netcom.com (John Laroche) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:43:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Dutchman's Pipe/Aristolochia You wrote: > > >Is A. macrourii substantially different from A. elegans (seeds >available from Doug Rowland)? > >Jeff >in North Carolina > OH YES! Like the difference between N rajah and gracilis......! Elegans is an open flat flower (similar ones include brasilensis and gigantea) macrourii (it is spelled wrong i think) is very nepenthes like with a very very long tail.......similar species would include trilobata. I have all of the above species along with several more including genus Pararistolochia and would be happy to share seeds with anyone who asks...only pods available now are A. tagula and A brasilensis..... J -- ################### From: "Ch'Ien Ch'Ien Lee" Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 13:47:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: N. carunculata (?) Attn: Nepenthes growers The University here just received a cutting of an interesting plant labelled as N. carunculata. However, it is much different from all other N. carunculata plants I have seen in that the pitcher tendril is attached to the leaf before the apex (as in N. rajah). The pitchers (as I recall from seeing the parent plant) are purplish-brown in colouration with a broad dark peristome. Is this a true variety of N. carunculata? Can anyone give me a clue as to its place of origin? Thanks, Ch'ien ################### From: dik.hagenbeek@Sg1.OC.WAU.NL (Dik Hagenbeek) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 14:41:32 -0800 Subject: introduction Hello everybody, According to the tradition I will shortly introduce myself. My name is Dik Hagenbeek and because of my proffession I became interested in CP's. I'm doing research about the attractivity of Sarracenia's for insects (not for CP members) at Wageningen Agricultural University. I'm glad to join the club. Dik ################### From: Carl.Gustafson@cbis.ece.drexel.edu (Carl Gustafson) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:01:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Malathion mode of action (was: Hmmmmmm (also Neps and Scale)) >Hmmmm I thought that malathion was more for spraying things and were >not as effective for scale/mealy-bugs because both have a waxy coating >that prevented them being wetted and hence picking up the poison. I >think the actual toxin is the same, or at least the same family - i.e. >anticholinesterase. From what I understand of biology (not much) >cholinesterase is the stuff used to transfer nerve impulses from one >nerve cell to the next, the poison in rogor/malathion/di-systron >interferes with this so it acts like a "nerve gas" Actually, it acetylcholine that does is responsible for transferring the nerve signals. Cholinesterase breaks down the acetylcholine after it has done it's job. Many organophosphorous compounds interfere with cholinesterase activity, resulting in the nerves being in a constant state of firing, so effectively preventing signals from getting through. Since insects have different biochemistry than mammals, it is possible to design compounds that have minimal effect on us, and maximal effect on them. Malathion is in this class. And yes, these are basically nerve gas analogs. There are basically two modes of action, of which the specifics I no longer recall. However one is moderated by nicotine-like compounds, the other by atropine, I think. I did a fair amount of reading on this in my days as a chemist (I worked for Stauffer Chemicals, managed into the ground by an inept executive committee, IMO, and now gone), and my father worked on nerve gas antidotes during a stint in the US Army in the early '50s, so I learned some from him, too. Carl Carl Gustafson =============================================================================== Imaging and Computer Vision Center | Software Guy Drexel University | Macintosh spoken here Philadelphia, Pennsylvania | I only speak for myself =============================================================================== ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:59:14 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: N. carunculata (?) On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Ch'Ien Ch'Ien Lee wrote: > > Attn: Nepenthes growers > > The University here just received a cutting of an interesting plant > labelled as N. carunculata. However, it is much different from all other > N. carunculata plants I have seen in that the pitcher tendril is attached > to the leaf before the apex (as in N. rajah). The pitchers (as I recall > from seeing the parent plant) are purplish-brown in colouration with a > broad dark peristome. > > Is this a true variety of N. carunculata? Can anyone give me a clue as > to its place of origin? > > Thanks, > > Ch'ien > Dear Ch'ien, it seems to be realy N. carunculata. Some variations of it are quite vigorous with a very robust appearance and a broad peristome (like in N. veitchii, e.g. in N. c. var. robusta ;-) ). At vigorous plants you can find in N. carunculata the described subpeltate insertion of the leaf. It would be interesting to know, WHERE (at which mountain) this plant has been found. Bye Joe N. ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 09:14:10 +0100 Subject: Re: N. carunculata (?) Ch'ien, >Is this a true variety of N. carunculata? Can anyone give me a clue as >to its place of origin? _N.carunculata_ as well as recent splitoffs thereof (e.g. _N.ovata_) do come from C Sumatra. I cannot tell you what you have from the scant description you have posted. But be careful if it is really _N.carunculata_, as this will be lumped with _N.bongso_ soon (Hi, Matthew)! You could perhaps keep an eye on your plants if you notice some change with this nomenclatural rearrangement. ;-) Kind regards Jan ################### From: zxmsl01@student.uni-tuebingen.de (Jan Schlauer) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 08:59:04 +0100 Subject: Re: Introduction Chris, > (...) Joe (J.T.) Mullins and I are trying to figure out everyone who is >doing academic work on Nepenthes.(...) as some of our interests may >overlap despite the different genera. What are you doing with _Nepenthes_? Kind regards Jan ################### From: John Taylor Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 15:32:52 +1100 Subject: Heliamphora seed - how to germinate? Hi all. I've just got some seed (well, two seeds actually) of Heliamphora heterodoxa from Allen Lowrie. I'm wondering what the best way to germinate them is. I've read that you treat them like Sarracenia seed - but do they require stratification in the fridge? BFN +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | John Taylor [Catweasel] | Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology | | rphjt@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au | Department of Applied Physics | | | Melbourne, Victoria, AUSTRALIA | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 21:03:27 -0500 Subject: BAD journal articles(no CP) Hello, I need some help from my fellow scientific colleagues. I am looking for journal articles in the study of animal behavior that are just plain BAD. That is, if the assumptions, conclusions, even the methods are just outrageous. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Sorry this isn't about our herbaceous friends. Cheers, Ronnie Nancy Maxwell Georgia Southern University Department of Biology Landrum Box 8042 Statesboro, GA 30460 ################### From: gsi0816@gsaix2.cc.gasou.edu (Ronnie Spears) Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 20:54:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Introduction The names of the students are Helena Cantrell, Prof. Don Drapalik, and Carol Helton. I think they are working with S. purpurea. Hope this helps. Your work sounds interesting. Cheers, Ronnie Nancy Maxwell Georgia Southern University Department of Biology Landrum Box 8042 Statesboro, GA 30460 ################### From: Date: 13 Feb 95 20:32:20 EST Subject: BUILDING WARDIAN CASE Hello everybody, I have been thinking about building a Wardian Case type growing chamber and wanted to solicit tips from anybody who has built one. The current design is simply a plexiglass box 4' x 2' x 2'. I will use 1/4 inch thick plexiglass and attach the sides together using glue (made for plexiglass). This is essentially a large fish tank. I will use standard 4' fluorescent tubes to light the plants so the 4' dimension of the box is pretty much fixed. The CP's I will grow are: nepenthes, pinguicula, drosera, and cephalotus. In addition to these, I will grow certain orchids that may require different conditions, so I may divide the box into cool and warm chambers (2'x2'x2' each) for the different growing conditions. My concerns are: 1) Is the 2' height tall enough? Most of the plants are small (short) and 2' would be plenty of height. Nepenthes are, of course, the exception. One drawback to a tall case (aside from the extra expense) is the diminished light at the "ground level". 2) Do CP need good air circulation or can I just leave them in a totally enclosed chamber? I know orchids are much less likely to get certain diseases if they are grown in a gentle breeze. Is the same true for CP? Assuming yes: do you think it would be good enough to just put a small fan in the chamber and let it run? 3) For the cool chamber, how can I keep it cool? Basically I am trying to simulate highland nepenthes conditions. I once saw somebody who had a plexiglass fish tank with a 2 inch hole drilled in the side. Through the hole, he had a tube that was connected to an ultrasonic humidifier. Every hour or so, the humidifier would turn on and create a cool fog in the chamber. It seemed to work well. 4) Orchid growers: Has anybody successfully grown highland nepenthes and masdevallias together? Seems they should do well together (masdevallias grow in the Andes). 5) Any other suggestions? What do you like the most/least about your growing case. What would you do differently if you were to build a new case? I look forward to hearing about any of your experiences with growing chambers. Regards, Scott Brown hsbrown@arnold.princeton.edu ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:31:47 +0000 Subject: Re: Natural Gas > Please, please, natural gas is very lethal to plants. To the dismay of > many Victorian gardeners, the early natural gas lines in cities leaked > like crazy. Even small amounts seeping up into greenhouses wiped out > many collections. So, if you have natural gas, your houseplants are > sick, and your silver tarnishes like crazy; have your house checked for a > natural gas leak. Not immediately related to CP, but do we all mean the same thing by 'Matural Gas'? Most gas in the UK used to be made from coal - I assume its main component was Carbon monoxide (certainly bad for humans, don't know about plants) and it no doubt had lots of other things in it which might have tarnished silver (Sulphur?). For several decades now, all our gas has come from under-sea reserves. This is mainly Methane, and we refer to it as 'Natural Gas'. I doubt it being harmful to plants. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) ################### From: Steven Klitzing Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 14:58:28 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes issues Hi all: Having some trouble with my Nepenthes. N. Rafflesiana, about six inches across, is not setting pitchers in my greenhouse environment. N. Mirabillis is doing okay, but the leaves are still a little yellow rather than green since it was started from a cutting. No pitchers on N. Mirabillis as of yet, since the three new leaves are small. What can I feed these two plants to green them up and get them healthy so they can set pitchers and catch bugs? To get an idea of the environment within the greenhouse, one small Nepenthes Ventricosa is doing marvelously, sending out new leaves, and putting out new pitchers, each larger than the last. I planted seeds of N.Alata, N. Maxima x. Sulewesi, and N. Ventricosa in a mini greenhouse sprout tray inside the greenhouse. Starting to get a mild green slime on top of the milled wet spaghnum where the seeds reside. They've been like this for about 6 weeks with no signs of sprouting. I'm still crossing my fingers and hoping they do something. Environment is fine for Drosera and terrestrial utrics. Not so good for Sarracenia. Cattleya, Dendrobium, Epidendrum, and Phaelenopsis orchids do well in it, as well as Amaryllis. ---Steve ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:11:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Introduction >Chris, > >> (...) Joe (J.T.) Mullins and I are trying to figure out everyone who is >>doing academic work on Nepenthes.(...) as some of our interests may >>overlap despite the different genera. > >What are you doing with _Nepenthes_? > >Kind regards >Jan Jan, First off I was trying to send that question t to Ronnie Spears, but I forgot automatic reply goes to the list, not the sender. Sorry!. Second off, I posted an introduction about my Nepenthes research interests on 2/1/95. Did you get it? If you (or anyone else out there) didn't get it and is interested, email me direct & I'd be glad to send you out another copy. ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, Castetter Hall, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 Wk: (505) 277-0683 Home: (505) 255-2176 E-mail: cfrazie@unm.edu ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 13:36:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes issues N. rafflesiana needs really warm sweaty conditions to pitcher well. At the U.W. greenhouse, most of the Nepenthes species are grown in the open but N. rafflesiana consistently refuses to pitcher if it is not in the hot mist tent. On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Steven Klitzing wrote: > Hi all: > > Having some trouble with my Nepenthes. N. Rafflesiana, about six inches > across, is not setting pitchers in my greenhouse environment. N. Mirabillis > is doing okay, but the leaves are still a little yellow rather than green > since it was started from a cutting. No pitchers on N. Mirabillis as of yet, > since the three new leaves are small. What can I feed these two plants > to green them up and get them healthy so they can set pitchers and catch > bugs? To get an idea of the environment within the greenhouse, one small > Nepenthes Ventricosa is doing marvelously, sending out new leaves, and > putting out new pitchers, each larger than the last. > > I planted seeds of N.Alata, N. Maxima x. Sulewesi, and N. Ventricosa > in a mini greenhouse sprout tray inside the greenhouse. Starting to > get a mild green slime on top of the milled wet spaghnum where the > seeds reside. They've been like this for about 6 weeks with no > signs of sprouting. I'm still crossing my fingers and hoping they > do something. > > Environment is fine for Drosera and terrestrial utrics. Not so good > for Sarracenia. Cattleya, Dendrobium, Epidendrum, and Phaelenopsis > orchids do well in it, as well as Amaryllis. > > ---Steve > ################### From: Christopher Creel Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:26:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: Nepenthes > > N. rafflesiana needs really warm sweaty conditions to pitcher well. At > the U.W. greenhouse, most of the Nepenthes species are grown in the open > but N. rafflesiana consistently refuses to pitcher if it is not in the > hot mist tent. > Ahhh, Mother Nature is so surprising. I am currently growing my N.rafflesiana, my most favorite of the Nepenthes, in a Phototron where the humidity is about 40% (same as the house). It pitchers well and grows like a weed. The one thing it hates is to have inconsistant watering routines. I have to keep it consistantly wet all the time, otherwise the traps die (quickly). It responds very well to Superthrive and a 1/8 teaspoon of Miracid mper gallon of water fertilizing every two months. Chris ################### From: CMDodd@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 19:14:25 -0500 Subject: Re: E-mail adress To: CP Digest I am trying to get the E-mail adress of Dr. Tom Gibson and understand that he was on the net several weeks back before I signed on. Does anyone have a copy of his adress? Thanks Cliff ################### From: Bob Beer Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 17:05:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes It would be interesting to have information on seed provenance of some of the forms and what behaves how. The ones at the greenhouse here are always fairly humid and never get dry, but as soon as they are out of the really sweaty conditions, they go nowhere fast. It sounds like you have yourself a great variety there; make sure you propagate it! bob On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Christopher Creel wrote: > > > > > > N. rafflesiana needs really warm sweaty conditions to pitcher well. > > At the U.W. greenhouse, most of the Nepenthes species are grown in > > the open but N. rafflesiana consistently refuses to pitcher if it is > > not in the hot mist tent. > > > > > Ahhh, Mother Nature is so surprising. I am currently growing my > N.rafflesiana, my most favorite of the Nepenthes, in a Phototron where > the humidity is about 40% (same as the house). It pitchers well and > grows like a weed. The one thing it hates is to have inconsistant > watering routines. I have to keep it consistantly wet all the time, > otherwise the traps die (quickly). It responds very well to > Superthrive and a 1/8 teaspoon of Miracid mper gallon of water > fertilizing every two months. > > Chris > > > ################### From: peredur@usa.net (John Rising) Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 18:50:49 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: BUILDING WARDIAN CASE The case I built, although not a true wardian case, might serve as a useful comparison. I built a 3 foot high case with wood sides and clear heavy plastic for the front and back. The case fit over 2 cat litter boxes where I put the plants sitting in water. This made the case about a metre wide. My lighting consisted of two 2' long workshop flourescent light fixtures with Vita Lights for a total of 4 bulbs. The problems I had were 1) the lighting was insufficient for the smaller plants 2) the lighting was to weak for the Sarracenia (they grew thin weak pitchers even with the addition of one extra side light) 3) the ventilation was inadequate even with the plastic raised to expose a 4" long slit in the front 4) the humidity was inadequate. Contrary to what I've read about sitting plants over trays of water I have yet to see any verifiable difference in humidity. The growing box had the same humidity (35-40%) as the house humidity when checked with a hygrometer. Lava rock added to the bottom made little difference and rapidly mineralized. 5) the temperature was too hot and killed off my Darlingtonia and damaged several of the Sarracenia during the summer. This has been my only experience and is serving to guide my future growing area that I will be building in the basement. I hope this is helpful. John Rising peredur@usa.net ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 22:08 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes issues > Hi all: > > Having some trouble with my Nepenthes. N. Rafflesiana, about six inches > across, is not setting pitchers in my greenhouse environment. N. Mirabillis > is doing okay, but the leaves are still a little yellow rather than green > since it was started from a cutting. No pitchers on N. Mirabillis as of yet, > since the three new leaves are small. What can I feed these two plants > to green them up and get them healthy so they can set pitchers and catch > bugs? To get an idea of the environment within the greenhouse, one small > Nepenthes Ventricosa is doing marvelously, sending out new leaves, and > putting out new pitchers, each larger than the last. I don't know if this helps, but I have a N. mirabillis (Kuchang), not really sure what the last part means but I guess it's the orignal site. When I got it, it was a newly rooted cutting and it was yellow with some green. It kept drying out on me (the pot it was in) and was getting really stressed. So I put the pot and all into a clear plastic bag. There it recovered and is growing new leaves and pichers and is still yellow with some green. The plant is in much better heath and yellow seems it's normal color. But if it isn't making pitchers there probably is some under lying problem as N mirabillis is one most pitcher prolific Nep's there is. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 22:33 EST Subject: Re: Re: Nepenthes issues > From: Bob Beer > > N. rafflesiana needs really warm sweaty conditions to pitcher well. At > the U.W. greenhouse, most of the Nepenthes species are grown in the open > but N. rafflesiana consistently refuses to pitcher if it is not in the > hot mist tent. I just moved all my Nep.'s into a 55 gallon terrarium. They are near completely enclosed to hold in the humidty and are given a "bath" in cool mist 2-3 times a day. The temp. inside ranges between 65 to 75 F. The N. rafflesiana doesn't have any pitchers on it now (it did but all of died before it was moved the tank), but new leaf unfurling now looks quite robust and does look like it will pitcher. I will let you know. Dave Evans ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 22:44 EST Subject: Heliamphora seeds > > Hi all. > > I've just got some seed (well, two seeds actually) of Heliamphora heterodoxa > from Allen Lowrie. I'm wondering what the best way to germinate them is. Real generous ain't he!? It would be curious for you to weigh the seeds, multiply by the price, and see if they really ARE worth their weight in gold! True, I have heard that Heliamphora seed is rare (perhaps rarer than TC Heliamphora plantlets?) If so, you might want to do a photographic sequence of germination and seedling development. Michael ################### From: SteveB4706@aol.com Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 23:44:27 -0500 Subject: Re: CPN article submission Tom and all eager acticle submitter, Here is what was published in the March 94 issue of CPN. when we had a call for articles and photos. CALL FOR ARTICLES AND PHOTOS Now that CPN is caught up and publishing on time, our supply of articles, notes, etc. is getting thin again. Before spring and then summer come on and you get busy outdoors or with your plants, consider doing that article to submit for consideration in CPN. Several folks have sent nice articles on CP companion plants and other things somewhat peripheral to CP and we have had to turn them down since there are other venues for other kinds of plants and we believe our readers wish us to stick as close to CP as possible. When doing your article, please refer to requirements printed on the inside back covers of recent CPN issues, partciularly regarding typing, word processing and spacing of lines. The time has come to put out a call for quality photos for front and back cover use. Again, we have pretty well run through our supply of contributor photos for covers and rather than run pictures from private editorial collections all the time, we would like to look at more reader material. A few basic rules on the photos. We prefer 35 mm slides but good quality prints can now be accepted. Number the slide margins and lightly on backs of prints and write identification and other legend info on a separate sheet of paper for each photo number. Do not write on the backs of prints. All material must be sharp with backgrounds that do not absorb the subject. We prefer subjects that have not appeared often on covers or in the pages of CPN previously, although unusual shots of some common material may be used. We will project slides and examine prints closely and promptly return those that seem not technically useful. Those we hold, with your permission, may not appear for a year or more since there will only be eight front and back covers per year. We may use occasional photos as spot illustrations in an issue where the articles do not have photos submitted by the authors. We will endeavor to return all material held for use promptly after use. However, the safest course is to submit a duplicate in case of loss so you will have the original. One other point. Usually, photographers and growers are anxious to be credited for a photo, and that is general policy in most publications including CPN. However, we have regrettably been informed that theft of plants is again on the rise and some grower/photographers do not wish to publicize that they are so successfully growing a certain species. We certainly abhor the practice of plant theft and do not wish to indirectly contribute to it. Therefore, if you wish to submit photos for the sake of reader enjoyment, and knowing that you grew or photographed certain plants, we can use them without acknowledging the identity of the grower and/or photographer. We do not want to discourage submission of super material because of unscrupulous people in the world and we hope that those of you who may be at risk will consider CPN anyway. We also pledge not to privately reveal the source of the plant or picture. Remember to request anonymity if you wish, otherwise we will assume acknowledgement is desired. Written material (and photos to accompany it) can be sent to either Joe or Don. Send "unattached" potential cover photos to Don. I hope this helps and I am looking forward to many more articles. Thanks for your support because without YOU there is no ICSP. Steve Baker ################### From: Joachim Nerz Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 09:18:53 +0100 (MEZ) Subject: Re: Nepenthes issues On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Steven Klitzing wrote: > Hi all: > > Having some trouble with my Nepenthes. N. Rafflesiana, about six i