################### From: "Robert Hood" Date: Thu, 1 Jan 98 16:26:34 UT Subject: Re: Lighting I buy my cp lights at hardware stores.They usually have lights called growlights (they come with a mount and all). These are usually located in with all the other lights ( kitchen/ shop). I have also seen growlux lights at local garden stores. I have not used growlux yet ,but have heard they r good. Robert Hood ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:10:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Heliamphora wanted Hi folks, I am writing partly for a friend, not e-mail endowed, and also for myself. We are looking for Heliamphora going spare as either sale or trade. Any one with extra please contact me privatly with the details of what, how many, and how much/whats wanted etc.. and we can work something out. Thanks and happy new year Andrew ################### From: coro63@ihug.co.nz (Brian D Quinn) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:19:35 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: N. lavicola seed Hi all, I have some fresh Nepenthes lavicola seed to offer to fellow CP enthusiasts. This was personally collected by myself on Gunung Telong, around 2000m altitude in the northern Sumatran province of Aceh. I am interested in setting up a trade....though there is one catch!! ;-) I am interested in swapping this seed for large volumes of fresh Sarracenia seed, preferably S. leucophylla and hybrids, S. flava and hybrids, and any other seeds that come from interesting plants e.g. Interesting flowers - petals or flower colour etc. Alternatively, I could easily be tempted with Drosera seed, particularily S. American and S. African species. If anyone is interested please email me privately to setup a trade. Brian D Quinn Waiheke Island, Auckland, New Zealand coro63@ihug.co.nz ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:55:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Cultivars and seeds Jay Lechtman said: > BTW, I learned this the hard way, when I was young(er) and foolish (at > least moreso than I am today ... those who know me keep quiet ). I > was blithely growing D. x 'Marston Dragon' and D. x 'California Sunset' > which I had been given as seedlings (as in from seeds, that is sexually > propagated, which I've already said above is a no no.). On the advice of > others older and wiser than me, I reluctantly destroyed the plants. Errr, ummm, forgive me but I would seriously question the wisdom of those who made that recommendation unless it's flat out illegal to propagate cultivars by seed, even if you're not going to claim them as the original cultivar. (I suppose there could be a law in this nutso world, though.) This is only personal opinion, but, if I had any of the plants you mentioned, or 'Akai Ryu' or that mythical non-existent 'Nepenthes x One-in-a-million' N.aristolochioides x clipeata x bicalcarata x rajah hybrid that set seed, and those seed sprouted into plants that were aesthetically pleasing as the original plant, why shouldn't I continue to grow them, as long as I don't try to claim they're the original cultivar? (i.e. the 'Akai Ryu' becomes 'VFT all-red form'.) I can understand the wisdom of that suggestion if you were to try to resell those plants under the cultivar name, but if they're just going to sit in your personal collection, seems to me, who cares as long as they look nice? I may be way off-base; there may actually be some kind of non-cultivar-sexual-propagation law or something. If there is, someone please straighten me out before I break it and start growing some extra nice-looking plants for myself. :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: CMcdon0923 Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:42:32 EST Subject: Pine Needles for Increasing Acidity? I believe I read that decomposing pine needles are a good natural way to increase acidity in soil. Since the old Christmas tree came down today, I was wondering if it might be a good idea to sprinkle some needles on top of my pots before the tree is picked up? ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:15:14 Subject: Re: Aristilochia deblis Dear TheEdge, > I am looking for any published research concerning insectivorous > activity in Aristilochia deblis. If nobody on the list has access to such a > source, No such source known to me. > a confirmation of Aristilochia deblis being an insectivorous plant > and/or its flowers being as such, No confirmation possible. _Aristolochia_ (many species known and studied) traps insects by the flowers. The insects are released after anthesis/pollination. They are *NEVER* digested although some creatures may not survive their imprisonment. > or confirmation of its not being insectivorous at any stage, This is hereby confirmed (see above). Kind regards and a HNY Jan ################### From: Joe Cumbee Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:28:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Pine Needles for Increasing Acidity? Hi, I use pine needles(pine straw as we call it in the South) in every mix that I make, including nepenthes, Sarracenias are grown in nothing but pine straw(needles) with about an inch of sand sprinkled on top. I have used it in for years in in-ground bogs and children wadding pools as my containers. The reason for using pine is that it is an abundant natural resourse that is raked up in my yard. It is safe to use so don't worry it want hurt plants. Joe Cumbee CMcdon0923 wrote: > I believe I read that decomposing pine needles are a good natural way > to increase acidity in soil. Since the old Christmas tree came down > today, I was wondering if it might be a good idea to sprinkle some > needles on top of my pots before the tree is picked up? ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:41:21 +0100 Subject: Aristolochia - gemmae trouble Hi TheEdge Never heard that an Aristolochia could be insectivorous. And I don't know an insectivorous flower. All the CPs are producing traps with their leaves, sometimes the flower stem is covered with tentacles or glue, but I don't think a flower ever trapped something. Dear list, I guess you're remembering the offer for free gemmae. Though the big success, I realize that some people wouldn't imagine I'd like to know if the gemmae arrived. It could be nice that everyone who received some from me sends me a message to confirm arrival. Since the messages I got are talking about dead-arrived gemmae, I think I wouldn't do that on long distances next year (although they were correctly packed) Laurent (Happy new year to all) ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:57:45 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: N. lavicola seed > Hi all, > > I have some fresh Nepenthes lavicola seed to offer to fellow CP enthusiasts. > This was > personally collected by myself on Gunung Telong, around 2000m altitude in the > northern Sumatran province of Aceh. I am interested in setting up a > trade....though > there is one catch!! ;-) > > I am interested in swapping this seed for large volumes of fresh Sarracenia > seed, > preferably S. leucophylla and hybrids, S. flava and hybrids, and any other > seeds that > come from interesting plants e.g. Interesting flowers - petals or flower > colour etc. > If anyone is interested please email me privately to setup a trade. > > > Brian D Quinn > Waiheke Island, > Auckland, New Zealand > coro63@ihug.co.nz > > Brian: I would be interested in a trade for your Nep seed. I have a fair bit of fresh Sarr. seed (this fall) Particularly lots of S flava, (cutthroat and red vein) and some crosses, and S lueco. I do not require 1 seed for 1 seed swap, as I have a fair amount of the Sarr seed. I would like enough Nep seed to have a reasonable shot. If you are interested, send me your complete address. Tom Massey 16404 Norwood Drive Tampa, Florida 33624 USA ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:54:00 -0500 Subject: Re: VFT SOS PDQ >1) Please don't do it! Named cultivars should not be sexually propagated. Now Jay , you don't really mean this. Of course they should or rather could be sexually propagated. They just need a new name as you pointed out. >BTW, I learned this the hard way, when I was young(er) and foolish (at least >moreso than I am today ... those who know me keep quiet ). We have all been younger and more foolish, so move over. (Sorry, this was just too good to pass up.) >I was blithely growing D. x 'Marston Dragon' and D. x 'California Sunset' which I >had been given as seedlings (as in from seeds, that is sexually propagated, >which I've already said above is a no no.). On the advice of others older and >wiser than me, I reluctantly destroyed the plants. You purposely destroyed cp's when some of us are struggling to grow them. I just killed a D. x Marston Dragon because I didn't notice that the media dried up. You could have kept them and started a dynasty. Let's see: D. x MD L235 and D. x CS AOL.com See how easy it is . My New Year's resolution is not to tease people. I failed. Of course, since you're an officer and hence a public figure, rules and promises don't apply David ################### From: JEFFREY WELCH Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:15:11 -0500 Subject: Re: VFT SOS PDQ Hi Folks, I can only partly agree with Jay about the selfing of cultivars. I do agree that any plants that result from self pollination of a cultivar are not that cultivar. Similarly selfed hybrids are no longer that hybrid. As to whether the crosses should be made, of course they should as long as the grower doesn't try to pass them off as the original cultivar/hybrid. Fifty seedlings of Akai Ryu x self are now fifty unique plants, *not* fifty Akai Ryu. Some may have characteristics that improve upon Akai Ryu, most probably will be inferior plants. So make the cross, keep good records, and be honest about the origin of the plants. Take care! Jeff ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:41:00 -0500 Subject: New Year's gift In my recent posting offering almost free Sarr seed for $2. the $2 charge covers everything, regardless of the number of species you request. If we end up trading, there is no charge. Of course, there was one chap who very eloquently begged to send an extra $5 and I just couldn't say no. So this means, I'll get some Vietnamese food for lunch out of this. P.S. This is not a plea for more money, just an observation about the generosity of humans. I have been quite amused by so many of you starting out with saying, "if there's any seed left." It must be reverse pyschology because it just makes me more determined to make sure that everyone with a request will get seed. I will make every effort to send the seed off this weekend so you can start your stratification. Will let you by email if it truly happens. David ################### From: "Jim & Karla (c223@rollanet.org)" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:53:08 -0500 Subject: Sexual Reproduction of cultivars Hi, Selfing of select, superior plants that are named cultivars is one = very good way of possibly creating another superior plant. The parental = name cannot be used on the seedlings derived from this method, but the = opportunity might exist to name one of them ourselves. Orchid growers = do it all the time. Cloning of select plants is a wonderful way to = share the wealth. Selfing or sibbing is an exciting way to improve on = what mother nature has given us. Its fun to see what develops.=20 Sincerely Jim Farrelly ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:32:00 -0500 Subject: Stratification I thought I would let everyone know how I stratify Sarracenia seed in case someone is new to stratification. The basic idea is to incarcerate the seed in a cold, wet environment for a period. I place the seed in a small, sealable container, add a few drops of rainwater, add a couple of sprigs of live sphagnum moss, and then add enough rainwater so that it looks like there's a slight excess of moisture. All this is by the touch, feel, and sight method. I like live sphagnum because it makes me feel that it might keep down microbes, it absorbs lots of water, and it increases the surface area for contact with seed. I like rainwater because I feel that it has the right pH, at least in the beginning. I like extra moisture because it makes me feel like I'm providing enough moisture to get the right biochemical reactions going. I like small containers because if makes me feel like everything in the container is in contact with everything else. Last year, I stratified for about 6 months in the refrigerator and got excellent germination. Based on what I've read this year, though, I plan to stratify for 6 weeks -- another feeling. If you don't have live sphagnum, a paper towel might do. Are you getting nauseating with this feeling stuff. My point is, this is more art than science or rather it's art based on a small knowledge of science. I'm posting this to the list in hopes that other people might share how they stratify and then you can choose what you feel will work for you. David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:37:00 -0500 Subject: stratification revisisted One more point on stratification. I think it was one of our friends from Oz that pointed out a few months ago that if you want to store your Sarr seed for long keeping, you should store it dry in the refrigerator. David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:05:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Pine Needles for Increasing Acidity? >Sarracenias are grown in nothing but pine straw(needles) with about an inch of sand >sprinkled on top. I have used it in for years in in-ground bogs and children wadding >pools as my containers. Hi Joe, I'm going to try this in a new outdoor bog so I thought I would quiz you to make sure I understand this simple concept. I'll probably run the pine straw through a mulcher, add it to the lined bog, and top it off with acid sand. It's truly that simple? How much settling takes place? No other ingredients? This just amazes me. Do you see any advantages over the standard milled sphagnum/sand mix. David ################### From: anggrek@juno.com (Tsuh Yang Chen) Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 12:35:49 EST Subject: plant lists first of all, many thanks for all who answered my recent inquiry. second, to jakub, i had sent this message to your e-mail address but it did not go through. here it is again: to subscribe to the orchid list, send "SUBSCRIBE ORCHIDS" message to "mailserv@scuacc.scu.edu to subscribe to the bromeliad list, send "SUBSCRIBE BROM-L FIRSTNAME LASTNAME" message to: listserv@ftpt.br to subscribe to the cacti and succulent list, send "SUBSCRIBE CACTI_ETC FIRSTNAME LASTNAME" message to: listproc@opus.hpl.hp.com also, if you are looking to trade or buy orchids, check out these two sites: www.orchidmall.com www.pollinia.com hope this helps. happy year of the tiger to all. tsuh yang chen, new york city ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:29:00 -0500 Subject: FW: Auto-reply... [Re: RE: Sarracenia seeds] Hi Aaron, When I replied to your request for seed, I received the automatic message below, so I thought I would post a message here. Do you want me to send your seeds to the college address on your other email or to another address? David ---------- To: dam7@cdc.gov Automatic reply to: "RE: Sarracenia seeds" I am on sabbatical leave from until June 31, 1998. I'll respond to your message as soon as I can. Thank you for being patient. Aaron Ellison ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:23:00 -0500 Subject: personal thank you Bon dia Marcelo, I don't have your email address so I'll post my thank you's here for the seed you sent me last month (or so). Several of them I do not have so it was a pleasant surprise. Now if I just knew the secret to germinating Drosophyllum's and keeping them alive. Ate logo, David ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:23:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Sexual Reproduction of cultivars Okay, time for me jump in. I'm not a specialist in genetics, however, if you self a plant, like S. flava for instance, don't the seedlings of that S. flava x self have the same genetic makeup of the original plant? If this is the case wouldn't any plant selfed reproduce an exact copy of itself? I was always under the impression that if you created a nice cross you could self it to maintain its identity. If this is not the case, a red vft x a second of the same clone = a genetically new plant? Can someone straighten me out? Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome >Hi, > > Selfing of select, superior plants that are named cultivars is one = >very good way of possibly creating another superior plant. The parental = >name cannot be used on the seedlings derived from this method, but the = >opportunity might exist to name one of them ourselves. Orchid growers = >do it all the time. Cloning of select plants is a wonderful way to = >share the wealth. Selfing or sibbing is an exciting way to improve on = >what mother nature has given us. Its fun to see what develops.=20 > > Sincerely > > Jim Farrelly > ################### From: Joe Cumbee Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:50:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Pine Needles for Increasing Acidity? Mellard, David wrote: > >Sarracenias are grown in nothing but pine straw(needles) with about an > inch of sand >sprinkled on top. I have used it for years in > in-ground bogs and children wadding >pools as my containers. > > Hi Joe, > > I'm going to try this in a new outdoor bog so I thought I would quiz you > to make sure I understand this simple concept. > > I'll probably run the pine straw through a mulcher, add it to the lined > bog, and top it off with acid sand. It's truly that simple? How much > settling takes place? No other ingredients? This just amazes me. Do > you see any advantages over the standard milled sphagnum/sand mix. > David David and other Interested CPers,I have never shredded the pine straw (needles), but it should be ok to do so. Mulching them might make them decompose faster (I don't know if this would be good or bad). I just soak the straw (whole) in water for about a week or two, or longer if you can wait. (If I am in a hurry, I take a potato rake and pull up straw that has fallen into our pond and settled to the bottom.) Once the needles are well soaked there is very little settling. The sand on top pretty well holds the needles down. Using pine needles makes weeding an easy, very easy and almost enjoyable task. The roots of the weeds just slide right out. I think that shredding the needles might make them more compact thus holding on to weed roots tighter. One advantage over milled sphagnum is the cost, with over 100 acres of pine trees I have an inexhaustible supply of straw, and there's more just across the road. I use enough peat moss as it is with other mixes. I apologize for my first letter, I had several misspellings that my son pointed out to me. I hope this helps. Joe ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:53:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Pine Mulch Over the past two years my local source for pure pine needle (straw) mulch has evaporated. I am now using a semi-coarse grade of pine bark mulch in my CP potting mixes. The results are just as good. The last pH reading I took on some drosera and dioneae soil containing this ingredient came in around 4.5 - 5.0 . The pine bark is often sold in large bags and can be quite easy to come by at a garden center when you can't find pine needles! My CP mixes (except Nepenthes) contain 10-20% of this product. Just stir it in with the silica sand and peat! By the way, I cover all my outdoor Sarracenias with an 8" mulch of pine bark to overwinter them in the frozen tundra of Northeast Ohio. Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:21:19 Subject: Re: Sexual Reproduction of cultivars Dear Carl, > (...) if > you self a plant, like S. flava for instance, don't the seedlings of that S. > flava x self have the same genetic makeup of the original plant? The problem is the (usually; in order to prevent impertinent comments) statistical distribution of allelic chromosomes during meiosis, i.e. the paternal (pollen) and maternal (ovule) chromosomes that make up the (nuclear) genome of the plant are not divided as unchanged sets to the gametes but *any* chromosome of an allelic pair may be grouped with those of the other pairs to form a haploid set. This results in gametes that have a mixture of paternal and maternal chromosomes. In selfing the plants, the mixed sets of pollen and ovule are combined, and the resulting embryo may either become a +/- exact copy of the parent plant or several allelic pairs may be entirely paternal or entirely maternal (relative to the parent plant). In the extreme case it is thus also possible to reconstruct diploid clones of the maternal or paternal gametes (that formed the parent plant). Therefore, usually several alleles are lost by selfing (i.e. the maternal or paternal allele is eliminated because both alleles are from the same original parent: homozygous condition). So a genetic degeneration is frequently encountered among the offspring. Because repeated selfing eliminates almost all heterozygous alleles, this strategy is utilized in breeding +/- genetically pure lines with +/- uniform properties. This enables breeders to produce hybrids with predictable characteristics. Crossing over (the exchange of +/- homologous DNA *between* two allelic chromosomes) is a mechanism to further complicate the process of sexual reproduction (i.e. to increase the variability among the offspring). Moreover, extranuclear inheritance, mutations at all levels, transposition, and other factors permanently affect the genetical makeup of most living beings. Thus, the idea of identical clones, even if produced by vegetative division, is an essentially theoretical one. Multiplicate all the trouble mentioned above by the ploidy/2. > If this is > the case wouldn't any plant selfed reproduce an exact copy of itself? This is not the case (see above), so the result is not as stated. > I was > always under the impression that if you created a nice cross you could self > it to maintain its identity. It would be better to forget this impression ASAP. > If this is not the case, a red vft x a second > of the same clone = a genetically new plant? Yes. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "quintn" Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:10:17 -0500 Subject: a VFT in Akai Ryu clothing Maybe I should have just said VFT "unknown cultivar"... Not being a "seasoned veteren" of CP's, I'm a little (young and?)inexperienced with their sexual propagation. Fear not, I don't intend to flood the CP world with incorrectly-named VFTs, I'd just like to see if i can produce some seed and successfully grow a plant from it. If it is such a "crime" to grow CPs simply to appreciate their beauty, then 99% of those on the list should destroy their collections immediately! brian ################### From: Davil Dane Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:18:57 EST Subject: Sarracenia x 'Ladies in Waiting' The December 15th (1997) issue of American Nurseryman introduces (on page 77) a new cultivar of pitcher plant. It's a multispecies hybrid developed by Rob Gardner and Larry Mellichamp and is propagated by tissue culture. The source is given as Niche Gardens in Chapel Hill. My questions are: Is there any more information about this plant? Is there a mail order source? Is there a master list of Sarracenia cultivars somewhere? I've seen lists of Sarracenia color forms which are very helpful. Thanks for your help. David Lane Dover, NH ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 13:06:04 PST Subject: Wanted: D.petiolaris complex / Seed update Hi list, hope everyone's having a happy new year! I would like to grow plants belonging to the drosera petiolaris complex - has anyone got any plants available? dilatato-petiolaris used to thrive for me. any tips on growing falconeri or others would be much appreciated. Finally, for everyone who requested seed from me, I hope to be able to send stuff out in 1-2 weeks, depending on my schedule. Happy growing! Matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: Ron Lane Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 17:49:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia x 'Ladies in Waiting' At 07:34 AM 1/3/98 -0800, you wrote: > The December 15th (1997) issue of American Nurseryman introduces (on page 77) >a new cultivar of pitcher plant. It's a multispecies hybrid developed by Rob >Gardner and Larry Mellichamp and is propagated by tissue culture. The source >is given as Niche Gardens in Chapel Hill. My questions are: Is there any more >information about this plant? Is there a mail order source? Is there a master >list of Sarracenia cultivars somewhere? I've seen lists of Sarracenia color >forms which are very helpful. Thanks for your help. > >David Lane >Dover, NH > <> Niche Gardens is a native plants (not exclusively) nursery. I have not received their latest catalog to see if this cultivar is included for sale. They normally carry un-named Sarracenia hybrids in their catalog so they may have added this clone. They are known for selling incredibly high quality plants. Their phone number: 919-967-0078 Ron Lane RL7329@sprynet.com Central NJ, USA ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 15:28:42 PST Subject: Re: Sarracenia x 'Ladies in Waiting' > The December 15th (1997) issue of American Nurseryman introduces (on page 77) >a new cultivar of pitcher plant. It's a multispecies hybrid developed by Rob >Gardner and Larry Mellichamp and is propagated by tissue culture. The source >is given as Niche Gardens in Chapel Hill. My questions are: Is there any more >information about this plant? Is there a mail order source? Is there a master >list of Sarracenia cultivars somewhere? I've seen lists of Sarracenia color >forms which are very helpful. Thanks for your help. > >David Lane >Dover, NH > The source of this in formation, Niche Gardens in chapel hill, is the seller of the new cultivar of pitcher plant(Ladies in Waiting). They are a mail order organization and you can reach them through the following ways: Phone= (919)-967-0078 Fax= (919)-967-4026 WWW= The plant is a bit expensive ($20.00) but I have seen it in cultivation at Niche Gardens and think that it is well worth the price. Justin T. Arthur 308 Summerfield Crossing Road Chapel Hill, NC 27514 United States Of America ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: "Haakan Murevaern" Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 00:59:20 +0100 Subject: Me in pitcher Hello list! I am trapped. I was was not careful when I was feeding my extra big Texas size pitcher. See it on my page. I have also updated with pictures of P.primuliflora (flower) S.rubra D.dichrosepala You can now go directly to "My Plant List" and point on a plant name to see the image of only that plant. Happy surfing Haakan Murevaern See my Carnivorous plants at http://www.algonet.se/~murevarn ################### From: Joe Cumbee Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:57:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia x 'Ladies in Waiting' I was fortunate enough to purchase a "Ladies in Waiting" at the ICPS Convention at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens this past May. It is a very nice plant, and it held up to the South Georgia heat very well. Just to say that you own a plant that was cultivated by Rob Gardner and Larry Mellichamp is worth much more than the $20.00, I wish now I had also gotten the "Dixie Lace" also. Joe Cumbee Justin Arthur wrote: > > The December 15th (1997) issue of American Nurseryman introduces (on > page 77) > >a new cultivar of pitcher plant. It's a multispecies hybrid developed > by Rob > >Gardner and Larry Mellichamp and is propagated by tissue culture. The > source > >is given as Niche Gardens in Chapel Hill. My questions are: Is there > any more > >information about this plant? Is there a mail order source? Is there a > master > >list of Sarracenia cultivars somewhere? I've seen lists of Sarracenia > color > >forms which are very helpful. Thanks for your help. > > > >David Lane > >Dover, NH > > > > The source of this in formation, Niche Gardens in chapel hill, is the > seller of the new cultivar of pitcher plant(Ladies in Waiting). They are > a mail order organization and you can reach them through the following > ways: > Phone= (919)-967-0078 > Fax= (919)-967-4026 > WWW= > > The plant is a bit expensive ($20.00) but I have seen it in cultivation > at Niche Gardens and think that it is well worth the price. > > Justin T. Arthur > > 308 Summerfield Crossing Road > Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > United States Of America > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:07:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Pine Needles for Increasing Acidity? CMcdon0923 writes: >I believe I read that decomposing pine needles are a good >natural way to increase acidity in soil. Since the old Christmas >tree came down today, I was wondering if it might be a good idea >to sprinkle some needles on top of my pots before the tree is >picked up? I can't comment on whether decomposing pine needles will increase acidity in soil, however, I would caution that Christmas trees are often treated with various things such as dyes, flame retardants and preservatives and I suspect these things could be potentially toxic to CP. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 03:13:49 GMT Subject: Nepenthes x Coccinea Someone recently gave me a large N. x Coccinea in a hanging basket. It = has sphagnum moss of the top, but I haven't looked deeper. My greenhouse is = still a month or so away from completion. Does anyone have "home" cultural = suggestions? Thanks. Jim James Aldridge - Fort Worth, Texas, USA jaldr@onramp.net or jaldr@fwcds.pvt.tenet.edu http://rampages.onramp.net/~jaldr ################### From: "Thomas W.Hanley" Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:26:42 -0600 Subject: Re: acid sand After all the discussions about using pine needles and acidic sand, I have one question. What is a good source of acidic sand if you must rely on commercial sources? Being in Dallas, Tx, the closest pine woods are about 100 miles or so. Besides you cant always take samples without permission Any ideas? Thanks Tom Hanley ################### From: "Edward Read" Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 19:47:53 -0800 Subject: small ping from Oaxaca Hello All, There is a pinguicula that grows in Oaxaca, is self fertile, and grows only as big as your thumb nail. If you know what this plant is named, please tell me. I'll be in Oaxaca again. If you know locations of pings in this state I would like to talk with you. Thank you again to all who have helped me. Happy New Year, Edward Read ay080@lafn.org http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/9848/ ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 04:09:55 EST Subject: Making water acidic. Hello all! Hope everyones year is off to a good start....I've used these three methods of "acidizing" my cp water.First,I can definitely go along with Pine needles,because i've constantly seen S. minor in the wild ,growing in solid,soaked mats of the stuff and quite large also! Secondly,i've used it for years to prepare and maintain the acidity in my aquatic Utric. tanks....Sometimes, i even use it on my Sarrs right before they break dormancy to enhance their coloration a little{ especially rich colored forms such as S. flava"red" varieties}. I've never used it on my Drosera though, but some peat tea in the water trays works quite well and seems to keep "slime " levels down a bit.Yes,i am a "peat tea fan",and think it's great. But lately i've been using Spaghnum moss tea,derived from boiling live spaghnum instead of peat. Same great effect,only clearer and purer in my belief,but hey,it's all good stuff!! :) Remember, keep them Neps warm!!! :) Brian in Fl. ################### From: Steve Barnier Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:30:41 +1100 XSubject: Making water acidic. Hi There, I have just found messages page and I am interested in details for building a bog garden, and much more. Please direct me to locating this info. Regards, Steve Barnier.... ################### From: Dionaea Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:02:52 EST Subject: N. campanulata Lamb and Phillips and others have stated that this specie might be extingt, due to forrest fires in its former habitat. Does anyone know if this specie was ever brought into cultivation? Would this plant have been considered a lowland plant? Does anyone have any more information about this specie that is not included in the Lamb and Philipps book? Christoph ################### From: Borneo Exotics Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:39:50 +0500 Subject: Nepenthes challenge! Hello Everyone, The nepenthes website www.borneoexotics.com has been updated with new photos and other items. You can view details of the updates on the What's New page. A challenge to all you experienced Nepenthes fans. The species N. sp. #1 featured on the site is a highland species and was found in Mindanao, Philippines. Can anyone identify it? If so please let us know at borneo@lanka.net Also, even better, if anyone has it in cultivation we'd be delighted to know. It may not be the most spectacular species in the genus, but it's facing imminent extinction. Happy New Year! Robert Cantley ################### From: Bassnik Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:02:15 EST Subject: Greetings everybody Hello, my name is Sam. It is quite a pleasure to have found this interesting system you are all using. Not am I only new to this system, however, I am new to carnivorus plants as a whole. They are a big interest of mine and I am VERY anxious to get started. I have mentioned that I am a beginner so I am already asking questions. If anyone has got some time, please respond. My first questions(I hope this is not too embarassing) is where is the best place for me to find seeds for a good plant for starters. I see advertisements for getting them through the mail but is that a good and safe idea? Since I am already bothering everyone with questions(and illustrating my ignorance of CP) i might as well continue. For a report of mine if any one can give me a website of something of detailed information on the soil and light conditions needed for a health venus fly trap please help me out. I would just like to thank anyone who got this far in my message and everyone as a whole for including me in the mailing system. Thank You Sam ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 13:32:59 PST Subject: Re: Greetings everybody >Since I am already bothering everyone with questions(and illustrating my >ignorance of CP) i might as well continue. For a report of mine if any one >can give me a website of something of detailed information on the soil and >light conditions needed for a health venus fly trap please help me out. > >I would just like to thank anyone who got this far in my message and everyone >as a whole for including me in the mailing system. Thank You > >Sam > Sam, you should check out the growing a Venus Flytrap section of the Carnivorous Plant FAQ Justin T. Arthur 308 Summerfield Crossing Road Chapel Hill, NC 27514 United States Of America ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: zzpSsX72C@worktow1est.com Date: 01 Jan 98 11:57:47 PM Subject: Give Your Child "One of the Best Children's Videos"" The holidays are upon us. If you're like a lot of people, you struggle to find gifts for your children that will entertain and amuse them at the same time. Well, here's a gift that will delight your child - A Is For Airplane! "A Is For Airplane" is the award-winning educational video that shows kids all the fun and teamwork involved in running an airline. "A Is For Airplane" gets viewers behind the scenes at the airport! Kids get to see: * The ticket counter! * Inside the baggage system! * On the ramp with the baggage loaders and fuelers! * In the catering kitchens! * Inside the control tower! * In the hangar with the mechanics! * At the boarding gate! * And even in the COCKPIT of a real Boeing 757! Parenting Magazine calls "A Is For Airplane" "One of the Best Videos of 1996!" It's also Approved by the Parent's Choice Foundation! Thousands of copies of "A Is For Airplane" have been sold for $14.95, but as an Internet Special this holiday season you can get "A Is For Airplane" for only $11.95 (plus shipping and handling.) ORDER TODAY FOR GUARANTEED HOLIDAY DELIVERY! You can order "A Is For Airplane" by calling our toll-free number - 800-250-4210. If you'd like more information, visit our Website at www.ppmm.com/jfp/jfp1297.htm or CLICK HERE! Thank you for your time... Johnson Family Productions Madison, WI ################### From: Gill Robinson Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:16:59 GMT Subject: Cultivation I have just joined this mailing list, and am interested in finding out the most suitable species for cultivating in the UK. ################### From: Alexander and Annick Salomon Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:57:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Sexual Reproduction of Cultivars Carl Mazur Wrote: >Okay, time for me jump in. I'm not a specialist in genetics, however, if >you self a plant, like S. flava for instance, don't the seedlings of that S. >flava x self have the same genetic makeup of the original plant? If this is >the case wouldn't any plant selfed reproduce an exact copy of itself? I was >always under the impression that if you created a nice cross you could self >it to maintain its identity. If this is not the case, a red vft x a second >of the same clone = a genetically new plant? Can someone straighten me out? When discussing genetics one refers to the phenotype and the genotype. The first is the expression of a certain pair of genes; the second is the actual pair. Since we have dominant and recessive genes, the expression of a dominant gene does not tell us which pair of genes (two dominants or dominant/recessive) an offspring contains. I do not know whether the red gene is dominant or recessive(probably recessive)but lets say it is dominant and call it R. Lets say green is recessive and call it little r. If we cross a red vft by itself and it is actually a heterozygote Rr we get the following offspring RR 25% red rr 25% green Rr 50% red and this is only for one trait. There are many chromosomes with numerous traits and infinite combinations are still possible by selfing a plant. Even if you cross a homozygous recessive by itself, you are only ensuring the expression of one particular gene. The ONLY way to get an exact genetically identical plant of a cultivar is by asexual reproduction i.e. cuttings, or tissue culture. Therefore a selfing of Aku ryu would be expressed as D.musc. "Aku Ryu"x self. No sexuall produced offspring can be called by the cultivar name. -Alexander E. Salomon, M.D. ################### From: Chris Marsden Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:01:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Greetings everybody Sam, > I have mentioned that I am a beginner so I am already asking questions.= = If > anyone has got some time, please respond. My first questions(I hope th= is is > not too embarassing) Not embarrasing at all. We were _all_ beginners once. > is where is the best place for me to find seeds for a > good plant for starters. I see advertisements for getting them through= the > mail but is that a good and safe idea? Where to buy plants depends on your area... On the list there are people from over 20 countries, so you need to tell everybody where you live (Whi= ch country and which state/county). If you're in the US some people on the list may be able to supply plants. Getting them through the mail (OK.... so you're in the USA) is about the only way to do it unless you have a good nursery near you. As for safenes= s, I presume you mean for the plants. Sending plants between the US and othe= r countries is illegal without all the paperwork, but within the US to some= extent it is OK and providing you order from a good nursery (others on th= e list can help you with that) the plants should be alright. > Since I am already bothering everyone with questions(and illustrating m= y > ignorance of CP) i might as well continue. For a report of mine if any= one > can give me a website of something of detailed information on the soil and > light conditions needed for a health venus fly trap please help me out.= Try the listserver CP web page... I can't remember the address offhand, b= ut it is in the welcome file you were sent when you joined the list. Kindest Regards, Toby -------------------- Toby Marsden -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- ------- Orleton Manor, Orleton, LUDLOW, Salop, SY8 4HR, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- ------- = ################### From: mark.fisher@tpwd.state.tx.us Date: Sun, 04 Jan 98 18:53:16 cst Subject: Never say die Last summer, my D. capensis put out increasingly smaller and fewer leaves until eventually, there was nothing left above the soil line. I assume this was a response to the summer heat here in central Texas. I feared it had died, but I kept watering it anyway. Today, I noticed a new D. capensis sprouting where the old one had been. I know this has been discussed several times before on this list, but I want to reinforce--never give up on a "dead" cp, as it may not be! Regards, Mark ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 04:02:14 GMT Subject: Greetings CP People! Greetings! I have just joined on to the mailing list and wanted to poke in and say 'Howdy' before I get to be a REAL pain! =3D) Actually I'm just starting a new adventure with CP's. I'm an avid gardener either indoor or outdoor and range in many different aspects of gardening including: Bonsai, Tropicals, Orchids, and now CP's! I recently picked up what I thought were 2 VFT's from a respectable = local nursery and came home searching for tid-bit's on the net concerning this wonderful family of plants... Needless to say I knew basically nothing about them other than a general gardening background would have clued me = in on, but was amazed to see such a wealth of information once again for a = new hobby I've been dying to invest time in for awhile now...=20 Kudos to all those with the descriptive web pages which include: The Carnivorous Plant FAQ page (EXCELLENT!) Cook's Carnivores Neal's Carnivorous Plants etc... etc... etc... The list would be huge if I were to mention them all and I've now in = just 2 days have brought my CP bookmarks to over 25+! Well, it's getting late and I had just finished up my NEW terrarium = with now 6 Dionaea's (Multiple Rhizomes From One Plant) enjoying their new = home in a 5 1/2 gallon aquarium with long fibre Sphagnum and some nice tepid water... I hope everything goes fine as this is my first attempt at this family of plants and waiting to enjoy the information contained herein = the listserv...=20 Thanks again to all who have provided such a service of information and= I hope to someday add to that list! Good Eve! ... Richard Berg =BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF= ?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF Richard Berg "Two things are infinite: the universe and human=20 stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe" -- Albert Einstein =BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF= ?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF?=BF =20 ################### From: Mike V Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:23:57 +0000 Subject: too much light for Helis? Is there such a thing as too much light for Helis? I have mine about six inches under six fluorescent bulbs, three of which are very powerful. More specifically, I was wondering if too much light might inhibit their development, as only one out of eight juvenile plants I have has produced adult pitchers. All of the varieties that I grow are doing well, but seem to get much redder than photos I have seen of the same plants, and new plants tend to burn rather badly before adapting. I know that they are otherwise happy, since they have all grown very well, divided, and even flowered, but I would really like to know if reducing their light would help the young ones. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. -Jonathan ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:59:04 -0500 Subject: Spam rebuttal Junk email in CP digest 1317: The holidays are upon us. If you're like a lot of people, you struggle to find gifts for your children that will entertain and amuse them at the same time. Well, here's a gift that will delight your child - A Is For Airplane! A also stands for "absorption". Here's hoping all the spammers in 1998 get fed to a REALLY large N. rajah. Both the plant and all of us on the list will be better off! Absorbing a good cup o' coffee, Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:18:01 -0500 Subject: N. coccinea cultivation In CP digest 1317 James Aldridge wrote: Someone recently gave me a large N. x Coccinea in a hanging basket. It = has sphagnum moss of the top, but I haven't looked deeper. My greenhouse is = still a month or so away from completion. Does anyone have "home" cultural = suggestions? Thanks. Jim N. coccinea is an old Victorian hybrid popular in glasshouses around the turn of the century. Its rafflesiana x ampullaria crossed with mirabilis. This plant is from lowland parentage and enjoys higher temps. I keep mine inside a 50 gallon tank under twin tube flourescents with a 14 hour photoperiod. Make sure your potting mixture is open and acidic. Growing temperatures within a range of 65-85f work best for this plant. Much success, Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: dmjoel@netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:43:54 +0200 (IST) Subject: gemmae Hi Laurent Just to let you know that during the last few days many of the gemmae that you sent me are forming their tiny first leaves. They look great, and this is a wonderful opportunity to thank you again for the gemmae. BTW, they were on their way from Belgium to Israel for a couple of weeks, due to a long general strike in Israel that blocked all mail, but they survived thanks to the excellent packing method. Happy 1998! Danny ________________________________________________________ Dr. Daniel M. Joel Carnivorous Plant Society of Israel Newe-Ya'ar Research Center P.O. Box 1021 RAMAT-YISHAY 30095, Israel. ________________________________________________________ Email: dmjoel@netvision.net.il fax. +972 4 983 6936 tel. +972 4 953 9529 ________________________________________________________ ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:39:45 +0000 Subject: Nepenthes Dear CPers, I just want to let you know that the homepage of THE NEPENTHES NURSERY is now updated with the 1998-pricelist and contains two very interesting special offers for Nepenthes rajah and Nepenthes lowii. You can find the page at http://www.wistuba.com Bye, Andreas THE NEPENTHES NURSERY http://www.wistuba.com Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Fax: +49 621 7152028 nepenthes@wistuba.com ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:37:39 +0800 Subject: N. clipeata question Hi everybody, I have put on my heater last week, and notice that my clipeata is growing faster (around 27 deg C). I thought this was a highland species, but recently R. Cantley put it in the lowland section of his excellent website. Any comment and experience appreciated... ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 03:13:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: New and Improved! With TWICE the Vitamin E and THREE Times the Super-Cleaning Action as before! NOW, with DOUBLE filling and extra sprinkles on top! PLUS an exclusive set of steak knives and a custom luggage set! Ok, not really, but it is new and improved. I have been re-scanning the pictures I have on my website and scanning in tons more that I didn't have up before. The "Great California Darlingtonia Expedition" area now has about three times the content as it had before. I've also been to a bog in Orlando with my camera and will be posting pictures from that sometime this week and also some film I got back of my own plants. So, go to http://www.illusionary.com/~dglidden/cp/ and take a look if you like. As before, comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated. Semi-off-topic: Why this sudden urge to update my website? I just bought the HP PhotoSmart photo scanner. It's a WAY cool scanner that supports direct scanning of 35mm negatives. If you like to scan your photos, CP or otherwise, take a serious look at this scanner. For anyone interested, I've put up some more details of my personal experience so far at: http://www.illusionary.com/~dglidden/scanner.html -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: M & M Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:00:16 +10 Subject: Book & Aquatic Ultirc. Hi, I have some aquatic Utricularia Australis and was wondering whether anyone had ever put som shrimp brine (sea monkeys) into the aquarium as a food substitute for the plants, and although I realise they probably don't need substitute food , whether anyone knows how they would respond to this. I haven't had much luck with the plant to date (for the last month it has been dying from the end back to the front. Although the front has been growing the dying end has almost met the growing front. From reading other recent posts I might try some pine needles in the water, none of the books seem to mention water PH, but as some have had success with this I though I might give it a go. Any other suggesstions? Also, I am looking for the Nephenthes of Borneo Book in Australia, would anyone know of any retailers here who might stock it? I have found it in the states but thought it would probably be faster to get it from somewhere here ofr direct from the publisher (I have also seen posts on doing c/c transactions with the publisher, but couldn't find and direct fax no. e-mail etc.... any help appreciated .) Thanks & regards. Mark - OZ. ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:38:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Sexual Reproduction of cultivars Hi Carl, >Okay, time for me to jump in. Oh, boy, this ought to be fun..... >...... like S. flava for instance, don't the seedlings of that S. >flava x self have the same genetic makeup of the original plant? If this is >the case wouldn't any plant selfed reproduce an exact copy of itself? I was >always under the impression that if you created a nice cross you could self >it to maintain its identity. If this is not the case, a red vft x a second >of the same clone = a genetically new plant? Can someone straighten me out? This should be interesting. I'll be digging deep into the past to all those microbiology and genetic courses and will probably give you more details than you care to know. Most people are familiar with the idea of X chromosomes and Y chromosomes that determine sex in mammals, with XX being females and XY being males. ((FYI, it's the opposite in birds; XX are males and XY are females if you're a bird.)) Normal cells in the body are diploid, having two sets of each chromosome while the sex cells (gametes) have undergone a reductive division so that they have only 1 set of each chromosome. For instance, if diploid cells have 46 chromosomes, then haploid cells will have only 23 chromosomes. When gametes (in mammals its the sperm and the egg) get together, each with 23 chromosomes, the resulting diploid fertilized egg is now back to the orgininal 46. The same thing happens in plants (I hope). But nature has added a fail safe system to increase diversity. Think of an X chromosome as a ladder that has been twisted at both ends. This is the double helix you've heard about. The X chromosome, though, is actually two twisted ladders that are joined together for a short space (technically called the centromere.) Now go back to that one twisted ladder and lets look at the genetics that there. The ladder is actually several miles long and each rung on the ladder is a base pair (thymine, cytidine, adenine, and guanine -- I'm really digging deep now.) It takes hundred or thousands of rungs (base pairs) to make up a genetic trait. A single sex chromosome can have hundred or thousands of genetic traits encoded along the length of the ladder. Now the other ladder (the other sex chromosome) is in one sense the same as the first ladder. By this I mean that along the length of the ladder it will encode for the same set of genetic traits at the same locations along the ladder. Now here is where genetic diversity comes in. I'll use birds as an example because the genetics are simple and familiar for me. We have two chromosomes and the trait we're looking at is feather color. A normal bird will have two chromosome and the same two genes that encode for feather color (normal) will lead to gray feathers. Another bird will have the color cinnamon for its feathers. For this to happen, each of the two chromosomes now has a mutation in each chromosome that causes the cinnamon color to occur. But we can also have another bird that is gray but is split for cinnamon. The two chromosome are now slightly different. One chromosome has the gene for the normal trait and the other chromosome has the gene for the cinnamon color. The normal gene is capable of producing the biochemical reactions that allow for normal gray coloration. The normal gene is dominant and the cinnamon gene is recessive. How did this happen. It happened when the diploid sex cells divided and separated those two chromosome, one going to 1 gamete, the other going to the other gamete. In the case of the normal cockatiel split to cinnamon, one gamete had the gene normal the normal gray trait and the other gamete that it combined with contained the gene for the cinnamon trait. So what does this have to do with whether or not a selfing can produce the same plant. A chromosome has hundred of traits on it and its companion chromosome has the same or slightly different set of the "same traits." When the two companion chromosomes along with other chromosomes in the diploid cell separate into gamete cells, it's like shuffling two decks of cards and dividing them half. Each time you do it, you get a different set of cards. Plants have hundreds or even millions of diploid cells that have separated to form haploid gametes (pollen and ovary -- right terms here?) and when the pollen and ovary combine to form seeds, the genetic diversity can be immense, even when it's a selfing because there's two sets of the same chromosome to begin with. What's likely to happen when you self a plant is that you will get a lot of plants that are phenotypically like the parent plant and a smaller portion of plants that are phenotypically different. We won't talk about genotypic diversity. Plants can be phenotypically similar but genotically different, again because of all the shuffling that goes on in traits (for instance, biochemical reactions, enzyme production) that we can't see by looking at the plant. If you got lost in the above (and sometimes I wonder if I got lost), think of it as each plant has two genes for every trait. Those genes can be the same or the genes can be slightly different. When sex cells are formed, the genes separate into pollen and ovary; when the pollen and ovary unite,the resulting two traits may end up in different seeds and the plant from that seed may be similar or different from the parent plant. We won't get into the idea that several genes may be require for a single trait. That would be like shuffling 5 decks of cards together and then dividing them into several piles. An example for several genes is probably color variation in plants but I'll let a botanist confirm that notion. Hope this was clear, David Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome >Hi, > > Selfing of select, superior plants that are named cultivars is one = >very good way of possibly creating another superior plant. The parental = >name cannot be used on the seedlings derived from this method, but the = >opportunity might exist to name one of them ourselves. Orchid growers = >do it all the time. Cloning of select plants is a wonderful way to = >share the wealth. Selfing or sibbing is an exciting way to improve on = >what mother nature has given us. Its fun to see what develops.=20 > > Sincerely > > Jim Farrelly > ################### From: "Jens Rotthauwe" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:43:10 +0100 Subject: A is for ... >You can order "A Is For Airplane" by calling our toll-free number - >800-250-4210. And I always thought "A" was for Aldrovanda ... 8-) Kind regards Jens ################### From: Leigh.Perkins@sset.com Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:06:57 -0800 Subject: British CPS Journal To other British CPS members Sorry to post this here, but can anyone else tell me if they have received their December CPS letter and the 1997 Journal as yet, or am I just being very impatient. Please mail me direct to save the bandwidth. Happy growing for '98! Leigh ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:11:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Acidit sand Acidit sand, Play Ground sand. Venus doesn't like sand. Go easy with your acid additions at first until you're happy with your results. Most Utrics like at least partial sand. With most Pitcher Plants, liking mostly Canadian peat, (anybody out there able to grow S. Minor, I don't know the procedure),high or low PH. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Craig S Gardner Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:26:22 -0800 Subject: FCC internet charges I thought the following would be of interest to any one in the USA. >Subject: Internet, FCC > >I am writing you this to inform you of a very important matter currently >under review by the FCC. Your local telephone company has filed a >proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet >service. They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation >of the telephone network. >It is my belief that internet usage will diminish if users were required >to pay additional per minute charges. The FCC has created an email box >for your comments, responses must be received by February 13, 1998. >Send your comments to isp@fcc.gov and tell them what you think. >Every phone company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it >in just under the wire for litiagation. Let everyone you know here about this >one. Get the e-mail address to everyone you can think of. > > > >Jack C. Thompson >Thompson Conservation Lab >7549 N. Fenwick >Portland, Oregon 97217 > >503/735-3942 (voice/fax) > >www.teleport.com/~tcl -- Happy Growing Craig S. Gardner 173 Perry St. Ukiah, Ca. 95482 USA (707)462-5331 (707)468-1175 ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 13:39 EST Subject: Re: Sexual Reproduction of Cultivars > From: Alexander and Annick Salomon > > ensuring the expression of one particular gene. The ONLY way to get an > exact genetically identical plant of a cultivar is by asexual > reproduction i.e. cuttings, or tissue culture. Therefore a selfing of > Aku ryu would be expressed as D.musc. "Aku Ryu"x self. No sexuall > produced offspring can be called by the cultivar name. > > -Alexander E. Salomon, M.D. I think it will depend on the kind of cultivar you are dealing with. The International Code of Nomenclature for Cultivated plants (1995) states in article 2.2: A cultivar is a taxon that has been selected for a particular attribute or combination of attributes, and that is clearly distinct, uniform and stable in its characteristics and that, when propagated by appropriate means, retains those characteristics. And in article 2.12: Assemblages of individuals grown from seed derived from uncontrolled pollination may be given cultivar names when they meet the criteria laid down in Art. 2.2 and when they can be consistently distinguished by one or more characters, even though such individuals may not necessarily be genetically uniform. Michael Chamberland ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:49:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Acidit sand Hi Randy, S. minor grows just like the other cp's, in an acid environment so a 1:1 mix of acid sand and milled sphagnum peat moss will do fine. David ---------- To: Multiple recipients of list Acidit sand, Play Ground sand. Venus doesn't like sand. Go easy with your acid additions at first until you're happy with your results. Most Utrics like at least partial sand. With most Pitcher Plants, liking mostly Canadian peat, (anybody out there able to grow S. Minor, I don't know the procedure),high or low PH. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:01:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: phytotoxic styrofoam Hello everyone, I'd like to relate an interesting observation I made recently, which could be very important for others in this forum. It concerns the phytotoxicity of colored styrofoam peanuts, of the sort often used as cushioning material in packaging. In summary, I believe these colored pieces of styrofoam were responsible for setting back several of my Nepenthes. Other growers should be careful. Here are the observations. I repotted several small plants about a year ago. I always put a shallow layer of styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of my pots, followed by a clump of potting media (sphagnum/perlite). Then I put the plant on top of the media, spreading out the roots (old potting media is removed as much as possible). Finally I drop in more media on top of the roots and lightly tap the pot down on a table top a few times to settle the media around the roots. Though the plants grew nicely after a month of adjustment, I recently noticed that some of the plants were dying back. The lower leaves would turn yellow and then dry up, followed by the upper leaves. (These plants were about 7" in diameter and only 4" tall). The change was fairly sudden, occurring over a period of 2 weeks. It was strange, especially after such a healthy growth spurt. This past weekend I repotted some of these plants. Invariably I noticed that the unhealthy ones had roots growing _through_ a _colored_ styrofoam peanut. Then I remembered one line in a posting by Al Bickell (when he recited his recipe for Nepenthes potting media). He described how he puts styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of his pots, and then added in parentheses "white ones; colored ones are phytototoxic". [I'm paraphrasing here.] Suddenly it all made sense. When the plants were enjoying a growth spurt of green tissue, they were also growing more roots. The roots finally came in contact with some colored styrofoam and grew through it. At this point the roots began absorbing phytotoxic material and the plants started to decline in health. Since the rest of my plants are doing well, since I've not seen any sign of other pathogens on the sick plants, and since all the plants experience the same growing conditions, I surmise the colored styrofoam is the problem. (The healthy plants I repotted hadn't yet grown roots into the colored peanuts.) I'm going to repot all my plants over the next few weeks, and use white styrofoam from now on. By the way, I'm trying a different spin on my old recipe for potting media. Instead of soaking the sphagnum in water, I'm soaking it in a 1:1 dilution of peat tea. Let's see what happens. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:55:48 PST Subject: Re: S.X"Ladies-in-Waiting" Hi list, Joe Cumbee wrote: >I was fortunate enough to purchase a "Ladies in Waiting" at the ICPS Convention >at the Atlanta Botanical Gardens this past May. It is a very nice plant, and it >held up to the South Georgia heat very well. Just to say that you own a plant >that was cultivated by Rob Gardner and Larry Mellichamp is worth much more >than the $20.00, I wish now I had also gotten the "Dixie Lace" also. I've seen and I grow the Mellichamp plants that you mention. Joe, you are very correct in saying that a Mellichamp plant is worth more than $20. No other hybrids even compare in beauty and vigor(except possibly, SX'JudithHindle.'). Dr. Mellichamp has been producing these plants for years and he is redefining my expectations of a Sarracenia hybrid. SX"Ladies..." grows about 8-12" tall and has an obvious leuco influence. I'd have to double check, but I think it is a SXleuco X(rubraxpsitt) hybrid. SX"Dixie Lace" is in my opinion even prettier than SX"Ladies..." Each pitcher has a green/orange color with a dense network of red veins. I'm not very good at describing them, but let me say that they are by far the prettiest Sarrs I've ever seen. I've even considered growing only a few "regular" Sarrs and the rest beauties like these. I've spoken to Dr. Mellichamp about his hybrids and he selects plants that are beautiful, vigorous, colorfull, about 12" in height when mature, and easy to grow. Right now he has 3 hybrids in tc, but will have more to follow(IMHO, what follows is even better). The 3 hybrids are SX"Ladies-in-Waiting," SX"Dixie Lace," and SX"Case's Resolve." I understand that there is some trouble with SX"Case's Resolve," so I don't know if it will be available. The only current source that I know of for these plants is David Crump in Charlotte, NC and he has plenty of each. If his computer is up-and-running, maybe he could comment further. Those of you that have seen the Sarrs at the NC Botanical Gardens in Chapel Hill or the McMullen Conservatory at UNCC know what I am talking about. Possibly, the best Sarr displays in the nation. Stefan Ploszak Gastonia,NC ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: L235 Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:13:22 EST Subject: Re: Sexual propagation of cultivars Ok, ok ... consider me suitably chastened. In actuality, I think it's fine to play around with genetics ... to a point. My "official" exhortation was however in response to the huge danger in passing off (innocently or otherwise) named cultivars when they're not, due to sexual as opposed to asexual propagation. If you're not quite sure what you're doing, and actively trading, it can seriously muddy the hobby and give us all a bad reputation (and don't we have enough to worry about with all the indescriminate poaching and CP naturalization we do? ). I think it's important to protect cultivars .... might like to name one myself someday. Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) Reston, Virginia USA ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:40:42 +0000 Subject: Re: British CPS Journal In message <4b0f9bc0@sset.com>, Leigh.Perkins@sset.com writes > To other British CPS members > > Sorry to post this here, but can anyone else tell me if they have > received their December CPS letter and the 1997 Journal as yet, or am > I just being very impatient. Please mail me direct to save the > bandwidth. > > Happy growing for '98! > > Leigh I'll make this a general posting in case there are any other members wondering the same thing. The final newsletter and journal has just been mailed and assuming the post office do their bit ought to arrive by the end of the week. On behalf of the society please accept our appologies but things got a little tight and we didn't quite make a packing session before Christmas. Regards, -- Phil Wilson Journal Editor ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:07:00 -0500 Subject: Drosophyllum I'd appreciate finding out the pH preference of Drosophyllum. David ################### From: Mars Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:11:27 +-100 Subject: Re: Never say die Hi Mark and List, >Today, I noticed a new D. capensis sprouting where the old one had >been. I know this has been discussed several times before on this >list, but I want to reinforce--never give up on a "dead" cp, as it may >not be! Can you tell me what a little D. capensis looks like? I've torn mine apart in 6 smaller plants and in one of the pots I notice this very little CP. It looks like D. intermedia more than it looks like capensis. Now I've been messing around with seeds of D. intermedia so the chance is not zero, but.... Mars ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:55:26 +0000 Subject: Re: Cultivation In message <199801042216.WAA00810@smtpgate2.poptel.org.uk>, Gill Robinson writes >I have just joined this mailing list, and am interested in finding out the >most suitable species for cultivating in the UK. > What are your growing conditions - Greenhouse, outdoors, sunny windowsill etc? Regards, -- Phil Wilson ################### From: Al Bickell Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:36:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: frozen Nepenthes Hi CP'ers, Can anyone tell me if there has been any trial attempts to freeze Nepenthes seeds for storage and then germinate them? This works with tropical orchids and I was wondering if it worked for Nepenthes too. Thanks, Al Alan Bickell Canadian Tissue Culture Labratory Web Site ################### From: "Sara A. Gardner" Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:16:36 -0800 Subject: N. coccinea >N. coccinea is an old Victorian hybrid popular in glasshouses around the >turn of the century. Its rafflesiana x ampullaria crossed with >mirabilis. This plant is from lowland parentage and enjoys higher temps. >I keep mine inside a 50 gallon tank under twin tube flourescents with a >14 hour photoperiod. Make sure your potting mixture is open and acidic. >Growing temperatures within a range of 65-85f work best for this plant. > >Much success, > >Mark Pogany >Cleveland, Ohio >markp@crscms.com > Mark, is this likely to be what I bought in a large hanging pot at a garden shop marked "hanging pitcher plant"? Sara in Grants Pass, OR ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:02:48 +0800 Subject: Help needed for seeds Hi, Further to Laurent Ide's advice I resort to our community to try to set up a new collection here in HK. I would appreciate to get any seeds of droseras (tropical & sub-tropical species), byblis, utrics, genlisea or neps. I don't have much to trade, except from D. spathulata 'HK', D. oblanceolata and N. mirabilis seeds and seedlings. Please e-mail me privately for details. Thanks to you all... ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 04:29:50 GMT Subject: Pinguicula alpina and scented sundew flowers Are any fellow carnivorous plant growers able to provide details on the following two topics? 1. Does Pinguicula alpina occur in Greenland, or is Iceland the westernmost outpost of this species? 2. Do Drosera with scented flowers (to the human nose) occur beyond Australia and New Zealand? That is, is this phenomenon developed outside of the tuberous, pygmy and t-form sundew groups? Kind regards, Robert Gibson (in Cape Town) ################### From: Guy.VanDerKinderen@rug.ac.be Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:31:22 +0000 Subject: Re: too much light for Helis? Hello Jonathan, > Is there such a thing as too much light for Helis? I have mine about six > inches under six fluorescent bulbs, three of which are very powerful. > More specifically, I was wondering if too much light might inhibit their > development, as only one out of eight juvenile plants I have has > produced adult pitchers. To my experience, Helis can receive a lot of light, which I think is consistent with the high light intensities they receive in the tropics at the altitude they grow. I cultivate my plants about 20 to 30 cm under three cool white TRU-LITE lamps. New pitchers turn reddish almost immediately after appearance. Also in nature, they display this colour. Plants grow well and flower. Young, ex-vitro plants do the same, and don't burn. The terrarium in which they grow however receives regular misting to. > All of the varieties that I grow are doing well, but seem to get much > redder than photos I have seen of the same plants, and new plants tend > to burn rather badly before adapting. > I know that they are otherwise happy, since they have all grown very > well, divided, and even flowered, but I would really like to know if > reducing their light would help the young ones. In your case, I would advise to protect some young plants from high light intensities, and see the result. This provided that all other factors are optimal, but since your adult plants do grow well and flower, I think this is not the problem. Kind regards, Guy VdK ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:53:30 +0100 Subject: D. binata multifida extrema I have been growing a D. binata multifida extrema for about three years, and each year it grows a little less vigorous than the year before. The leaves produced last year (summer) became no longer than 15 cm on very thin stalks. I have transplanted it two years ago in a 15 * 15 cm plastic pot with a mixture of about 5 peat / 1 pine needles / 2 perlite / 2 sand. All my other plants (Drosera, Sarracenia, VFT, Darlingtonia) are doing fine in this mixture. During summer it grows in the greenhouse in +- 3 cm water. During winter it is kept frost free in a cold room in our house (after I nearly lost it during its first winter in the greenhouse), the soil is kept moist, but not wet. What should I do to reinitialize its vigour ? To those to whom I have promised seeds, I'm just back from vacation. I will send the seeds this week. Kind regards Wim ################### From: Borneo Exotics Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:21:33 +0500 Subject: re: N. clipeata question Gilles Lardy wrote: I have put on my heater last week, and notice that my clipeata is growing faster (around 27 deg C). I thought this was a highland species, but recently R. Cantley put it in the lowland section of his website. Any comment and experience appreciated... Actually, N. clipeata is not a species I have ever grown, so I don't know much about it's cultivation requirements! The reason I put it in the lowland section is that the mountain it comes from, Gng Kelam is almost exactly 1,000m high which puts it borderline between highland and lowland. It grows on cliff faces, so presumably it doesn't exits on the top of the mountain (if it did it'd be long gone!). 27 deg C sounds about right for the altitude, but beware, if it behaves as a highlander, it may need a night-time temperature a bit lower than this. You may possibly find that growth slows down after a while, or abnormal growth starts to appear if it doesn't get the temperature swing. No doubt others who have growing experience can tell you more. Best of luck! Robert Cantley ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:39:28 +0000 Subject: re: N. clipeata question On 6 Jan 98 at 6:33, Borneo Exotics wrote: > Gilles Lardy wrote: > > I have put on my heater last week, and notice that my clipeata is growing > faster (around 27 deg C). I thought this was a highland species, but > recently R. Cantley put it in the lowland section of his website. > > Any comment and experience appreciated... > > Actually, N. clipeata is not a species I have ever grown, so I don't know > much about it's cultivation requirements! The reason I put it in the > lowland section is that the mountain it comes from, Gng Kelam is almost > exactly 1,000m high which puts it borderline between highland and lowland. > It grows on cliff faces, so presumably it doesn't exits on the top of the > mountain (if it did it'd be long gone!). > > 27 deg C sounds about right for the altitude, but beware, if it behaves as > a highlander, it may need a night-time temperature a bit lower than this. > You may possibly find that growth slows down after a while, or abnormal > growth starts to appear if it doesn't get the temperature swing. No doubt > others who have growing experience can tell you more. > > Best of luck! > > > Robert Cantley > > > > I'd recommend growing N. clipeata in an intermediate range of temperatures - not like extreme lowlanders (e.g. N. bicalcarata), however warmer than real highland species. I must admit that after establishing the first plants from tissue culture last spring N. clipeata has turned out to be easier than I had expected:-) They are not very fast but I had only very little losses. Bye, Andreas THE NEPENTHES NURSERY http://www.wistuba.com Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Fax: +49 621 7152028 nepenthes@wistuba.com ################### From: "E.A.J-C. Valette" Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:05:00 +0000 (GMT) Subject: water ? Happy new year to all. With the raining whether, we have here, I try to recolt the most rainwater as possible. I have a shed in my garden but the roof is made with shingel (spelling?) Do you think I can recolt the water anyway. Perhaps it could have heavymetal which be dangerous to the CP? At the moment, I only use plastic box. On the other hand, how can I keep this water and how long time?. It is safe if I only use plastic bottles? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Eric ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:44:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Niche Gardens Cultivars Hi everyone! Just for the record, the information that people are talking about, regarding the fine Sarracenia selections being developed at Niche Gardens, are NOT cultivar descriptions. Niche Gardens and Larry Mellichamp are arranging with Carnivorous Plant Newsletter to have their cultivars descriptions to appear in CPN. Just to clarify things a bit. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: BillSherren Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:05:27 -0000 Subject: Nepenthes Books Hi, Could anyone tell me where I could obtain these new Nepenthes Pitcher = Plants books that have been published recently.As I live in the UK and I = have been unable to find a supplier here. Thanks Bill ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 17:15:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes Books Bill Sherren asked: > Could anyone tell me where I could obtain these new Nepenthes Pitcher = > Plants books that have been published recently. There are two books in question. Nepenthes of Borneo by Charles Clarke is the most recent. There is also Pitcher-Plants of Borneo by Anthea Phillipps and Anthony Lamb. Both are available from the same publisher: Natural History Publications (Borneo) SDN BHD Sabah, Malaysia If you need the entire mailing address, write me again. But, it's more efficient if you call/fax them, or send e-mail: Tel: 088-233098 Fax: 088-240768 The country code for Malaysia is 60. e-mail:chewlun@tm.net.my I had the best success by faxing them my intent to order. They return-faxed me a credit card order form with the desired book information on it. All I had to do was sign the form, fill in the credit card information, and fax it back. All currency exchange is taken care of automatically. You can also e-mail them with your intentions, and include your fax number. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: stephend@ricochet.net (stephend@ricochet.net) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:54:06 -0800 Subject: CP class at UC Santa Cruz. I found this class listed on the following web page and I signed up for it. I wonder how many classes like this are taught every year? There are only two people signed up as of yesterday so it sounds like a very one-on-one class, but I'm sure it would be more informative and fun if there were others. Looking forward to seeing some of you there. :-) Stephen Davis San Jose, CA January 24: Santa Cruz The World of Carnivorous Plants: Natural History, Propagation, and Cultivation Carnivory or insectivory among the plant kingdom is a highly specialized survival adaptation that evolved in widely unrelated plant families. Participants in this seminar will explore the rich natural history of the world's diversity of carnivorous plants. We will study their distribution and explore their native habitats, evolution, ecology, and adaptations to carnivory. Passive and active methods of capture and digestive mechanisms will be featured and studied. Percipients will also learn how to propagate and grow carnivorous plants through hands-on demonstrations and discussion. Various topics will be addressed, including hybridization, pests and diseases, watering requirements, and indoor and outdoor cultivation. This is a hands-on workshop. The instructor will bring live plants for display and will show slides. Participants will tour the UCSC Arboretum's carnivorous plant displays. Instructor: Brian Jeffers, owner and manager of Darrow Nurseries, Watsonville. Fee: $74 Saturday, January 24 from 10 am to 3 pm (bring a bag lunch). co-sponsored by UCSC Extension and UCSC Arboretum UCSC Arboretum High Street, UCSC, Santa Cruz 1-800-660-8639 Stephen Davis stephend@ricochet.net ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 22:57:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: California and plants I have the chance to take a new job in California, which I like so much better than Florida, but I was told just today that CA has a "No Plants Come Into the State" policy and that all my CP would have to stay behind. Well, I don't have a years'-old collection, but I'd still be pretty bummed about having to get rid of all my plants and it would be a major factor in my considering to move. Does anyone know anything more about this import policy of CA, or if there is a way to get some kind of phytosanitary certificate or something so I could bring my babies with me? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: J Mitchell Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:34:32 +0000 Subject: drying sphagnum? I've been frustrated lately with sphagnum (dried), which I need for several species I grow. Basically, the cheap stuff is filthy, stinky, full of seeds and spores, and generally not something I want to put my Heliamphoras and other rarer plants into. And the expensive stuff is, well, expensive. I have found some clean, nice New Zealand moss, but it's available only sporadically and it's like $10 or $12 for a bag barely big enough to repot a half dozen 4" pots. Well, the other day I was trimming some of my live sphagnum, and just left it out on a table to see if it would dry well. The result was a fairly nice dried moss, somewhat lighter and fluffier than the bagged stuff. I think it would be great if I could grow and dry my own moss; it would be guaranteed pure and weed free, and cost nothing but terrarium space. So, has anyone had experience doing this? Does it work, or is something done to the packaged stuff that is necessary? I know how to grow live sphagnum just fine, I'm only wondering if anyone knows how to turn it into usable dried stuff. Any help would be greatly appreciated- -Jonathan ################### From: Bruce R Salmon Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:59:40 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: * NEP COMPETITION * Yes, I'm feeling generous again. I have 12, thats right twelve, packets of fresh N. lavicola seed to *give* away.... You must be absolutely bananas I hear you say. Well everyone's entitled to their own opinion. BUT there is a catch - well it's not a competition for nothing! To win a free packet you must... Tell me why you think you deserve it in the most *seductive* and *witty* way you can think of. All winners will be notified on this channel so that losers know whose arms to twist. Competition closes same bat time, same bat channel, next bat week. Brucie 13 Rothery Road Manurewa Auckland New Zealand ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:39:50 Subject: Re: Pinguicula alpina and scented sundew flowers Dear Robert, > 1. Does Pinguicula alpina occur in Greenland, or is Iceland the > westernmost outpost of this species? No record known from Greenland. All records from America erroneous (confusion with _P. villosa_ or _P. vulgaris_). Where do you have the information on Iceland from? I do not know of any record of _P. alpina_ from there. I have seen specimens of _P. vulgaris_ from Iceland, however. So the W most occurrence of _P. alpina_ seems to be in Spain (Pyrenees). > 2. Do Drosera with scented flowers (to the human nose) occur beyond > Australia and New Zealand? That is, is this phenomenon developed > outside of the tuberous, pygmy and t-form sundew groups? I do not know of any outside that area. The scented species do belong to subgenera that are (almost) endemic to Au/N.Zeal., so it is not very likely to find these species (except _D. peltata_) somewhere else (how about _D. insolita_? Has any of the many collectors of this species ever sniffed at the flowers? ;-)). However, there is a possibility that scent just has not been noted by the collectors of other species in other regions. Kind regards Jan ################### From: juerg.steiger@iae.unibe.ch (Juerg Steiger) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:31:33 +0100 Subject: Re: Pinguicula alpina and scented sundew flowers Robert Gibson asks: >1. Does Pinguicula alpina occur in Greenland, or is Iceland the >westernmost outpost of this species? P. alpina neither grows in Greenland nor in Iceland. It reaches its northwesternmost distribution sites in Scotland and Norway. The only butterwort occurring in Greenland and Iceland is P. vulgaris. Kind regards Juerg ___________________________________________________ Juerg Steiger, Institut fuer Aus-, Weiter- und Fortbildung IAWF, University of Bern, Medical Faculty, Inselspital 37a, CH-3010 Bern, Switzerland. Phone: +41 (0)31 632 9887, Fax: +41 (0)31 632 9871 ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:48:54 Subject: Re: small ping from Oaxaca Dear Edward, > There is a pinguicula that grows in Oaxaca, is self fertile, and grows > only as big as your thumb nail. > If you know what this plant is named, please tell me. There are several possibilities. The most probable is _P. crenatiloba_, a close relative of the quite frequently cultivated _P. emarginata_. It can be recognized by the flowers that have emarginate corolla lobes (with distinct teeth at the tip). It is one of the smallest species in the genus and the smallest known from Mexico. > I'll be in Oaxaca again. If you know locations of pings in this state I > would like to talk with you. There are localities all over this state. If you visit places in the Sierra that are not yet known as type localities of described species (cf. _P. gigantea, greenwoodii, hemiepiphytica, laueana, mirandae, rectifolia, stolonifera, utricularioides_ in the cp database, all described since 1989!), you will probably find new locations, and perhaps even new species! Visit the 1998 cp conference at Bonn, Germany (May 29 - June 1). Amongst others, Hans Luhrs (who described two of the species mentioned above himself) will tell about his experience in Mexico. Registration forms are in the most recent issue of CPN and on the web: http://www.gfp.org/icps/anmform.htm Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 09:58:15 Subject: list of cp cultivars Dear David, > Is there a master list of Sarracenia cultivars somewhere? What you are talking about is the International Register of Carnivorous Plant Cultivars. This is in preparation as one of the installations of the ICPS as the forthcoming International registration Authority of cp cultivars. If you want to see what information is available already, please use the cp database (searching for single quotes ' will output all cultivars and a few other records). Kind regards Jan ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:31:59 -0400 Subject: Re: drying sphagnum? >I've been frustrated lately with sphagnum (dried), which I need for >several species I grow. >Basically, the cheap stuff is filthy, stinky, full of seeds and spores, >and generally not something I want to put my Heliamphoras and other >rarer plants into. (snip) >So, has anyone had experience doing this? Does it work, or is something >done to the packaged stuff that is necessary? >I know how to grow live sphagnum just fine, I'm only wondering if anyone >knows how to turn it into usable dried stuff. > >Any help would be greatly appreciated- > >-Jonathan If you can grow it so the fibers (stems) reach any length at all, the rest should be easy. Of course, up here in Canada, I can just pick the stuff up during a walk in the woods and stuff it in a bag. When the moss has had some good growth, try giving it a severe haircut and then just spread it out thinly in a warm sunny spot or under a mild heat source (a few bright lightbulbs). It will dry to a greyish colour and feel light and somewhat brittle, in a few hours. At this point it is a dry sponge and can be stored. When you use this on your plants, moisten it just enough so that it becomes workable and pack it into the pot. When you water it (I do it by soaking) the material will expand and should anchor anything you have planted in it quite nicely. If you let it dry out _completely_ after potting, it can be difficult to re-moisten. If you are using Canadian sphagnum, don't be surprised if the stuff starts growing again on the surface of your pots: the spores can survive a lot of tough treatment. HTH. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:08:33 -0500 Subject: RE: water ? > With the raining whether, we have here, I try to > recolt the most rainwater as possible. I have a shed > in my garden but the roof is made with shingel > (spelling?) Do you think I can recolt the water > anyway. > Perhaps it could have heavymetal which be dangerous > to the CP? At the moment, I only use plastic box. > > On the other hand, how can I keep this water and how > long time?. It is safe if I only use plastic bottles? Eric, I collect water from my roof which is covered with asphalt shingles, the standard roofing material in the U.S.A. Since asphalt is a petroleum product, I think that some nasty chemicals probably leach out of it as it sits in the sun. In the summer when rains are infrequent I usually let it rain for a while before I put my bucket out to catch the rainwater. My theory is that the rain will wash off some of the nasty chemicals so that the rainwater I collect will be relatively clean. I store my water in 5 gallon buckets with lids on top to keep mosquitoes from breeding in them. I've had my water get algae growth but to my knowledge it has never turned "sour" or "bad". Hope this helps, Phil URL du jour: http://www.431.org/toast/toasthaiku.html ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:03:43 +0100 Subject: Re: N.clipeata Gilles Lardy wrote: x I have put on my heater last week, and notice that my clipeata is growing x faster (around 27 deg C). I thought this was a highland species, but x recently R. Cantley put it in the lowland section of his excellent website. You can say that Nepenthes clipeata is a montain plant, not highland (over 1500m) and not lowland (below 500m). The (former) location of N.clipeata is Gunong Kelam in Kalimantan (you can see a photo in my homepage), which is 800 m high. The original place, where N.clipeata was found, is now destroyed by a fire and was at an altitude of about 700 m at a steep slope of this montain. During the day it is terrible hot (38 deg. Cel.)at this place and at night it cools down to 18 - 20 deg.Cel. Johannes -- Homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ################### From: mark.fisher@tpwd.state.tx.us Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 10:55:02 cst Subject: Re: Never say die >>Today, I noticed a new D. capensis sprouting where the old one had >>been. I know this has been discussed several times before on this >>list, but I want to reinforce--never give up on a "dead" cp, as it >>may not be! >Can you tell me what a little D. capensis looks like? I've torn mine >apart in 6 smaller plants and in one of the pots I notice this very >little CP. It looks like D. intermedia more than it looks like >capensis. Now I've been messing around with seeds of D. intermedia so >the chance is not zero, but.... Well, it's not simply a miniature version of a full-grown plant. The leaves are out of proportion and are rather short and stubby. Mine has bright red tentacles. I agree it looks more like a full-grown D. intermedia than capensis (I do not have any intermedia in the greenhouse, so that's not it). I've got tons 'o D. spatulata popping up everywhere, but that's easy to distinguish. Regards, Mark ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:19:03 +0800 Subject: Pix-Check this out... Hi everybody, Thank you for those who have answered my message regarding seeds, and for those who will answer soon :).... I will answer to the first ones tomorrow (today very busy...) However, here is the address where, further to many requests (Hi Ivo...), are displayed some pix of HK CPs Hope you'll appreciate it, more to come soon. http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.htm Gilles ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:58:37 Subject: Re: N.clipeata Dear clipeatologists, > You can say that Nepenthes clipeata is a montain plant, not highland > (over 1500m) and not lowland (below 500m). The (former) location of > N.clipeata is Gunong Kelam in Kalimantan (you can see a photo in > my homepage), which is 800 m high. The original place, where > N.clipeata was found, is now destroyed by a fire and was at an > altitude of about 700 m at a steep slope of this montain. During > the day it is terrible hot (38 deg. Cel.)at this place and at night > it cools down to 18 - 20 deg.Cel. In addition to these climatic factors (elevation, geographical latitude), also edaphic (soil, etc.) factors determine the endemism of this most remarkable species. G.Kelam is an inselberg (an isolated outcrop of siliceous rock). _N. clipeata_ (unlike other plants inhabiting a similar geographical setting) is adapted to this peculiar rock surface situation that is almost devoid of other plants, so it is very unlikely that this species can be found somewhere in the close neighbourhood of G.Kelam (i.e. in habitats in which it would not survive competition by other plants that are more vigorous in these more "normal" habitats). In fact the known specimens indicate that this mountain is the only station of the species at all. It is quite remarkable that this (almost?) extinct species was never protected more than any other _Nepenthes_ (cf. N.mirabilis_!). Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Jim & Karla (c223@rollanet.org)" Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:29:10 -0500 Subject: Rain water collection barrel Hi, I live in an area of Missouri, USA that has very hard water. = When used on my orchids, bromiliads, and CP it slowly caused then to = lose vigor and die. So I bought a 30 gallon plastic trash can, cut a = small rectangular hole in the lid to conform to the shape of the gutter = downspout and placed it on a three foot high wooden platform under the = downspout. I also installed a plastic faucet in the bottom front of the barrel so = that I can draw off the water that I need for the green house plants and = save the rest in the barrel. I put the water into twenty gallon = Rubbermaid containers. Any large, clean plastic container will do. Make = sure it has a lid for safety. Little kids love water. The black = coloring of the collection can helps to quickly melt the outer few = inches of the can when it is frozen solid. That is more often than not = here in Missouri in the winter. My roof is asphalt shingle and the = plants have been using water collected this way for two years. They are = very vigorous and healthy. Jim Farrelly ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 20:20 EST Subject: Re: D. graminifolia > From: -Tom- > > > Hey Dave - any of the ones I gave to you survive? How were you > growing them? Hi List, At first I couldn't recall Tom giving me any D.gram., but then I realized we each planted some seeds of this species last year over the holiday break. I think Tom had the D.gram. seeds originally. Well, most died with the heat of summer. As Fernando mentioned, these S.American Drosera like things cool, like Darlingtonia. I have one D.gram. left out of about a dozen. It was the one in the most shade and hence, the coolest. Fernando, do you have any ideas about how to induce flowering in this species by changing the hours of light per day? Also, how large should (can?) a plant be before flowering. Thank-you, Dave Evans ################### From: ss66428 Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 12:32:02 +0900 Subject: Re: D.graminifolia Hi Dave, Your question on how to induce flowering in D.graminifolia is interesting. Before going into any details, first you have to keep in mind that the type plants on the Caraca (= Ka-RA-ssa) Highlands flower in late summer, which corresponds to March in Brazil. This is the wet season. A small number of plants will then flower again in September, which is at the end of winter and height of the dry season. At all other D.graminifolia populations I have studied (Diamantina, Grao Mogol, Itacambira, and Botumirim, further north from Caraca, all in the state of Minas Gerais, southwestern Brazil) the plants flower around September. I'm not sure if there is an ideal size for it to begin flowering at. I've seen rather small plants flowering in the wild on numerous occasions. I can think of two factors involved in the induction of flowering in this species: soil humidity and photoperiod. For D.graminifolia from Caraca, I would say photoperiod is the important factor, since in March (when they flower) the soil has been wet for many months and has not yet started to dry out. As for the more northern populations of D.graminifolia, I'm not sure which of the two possible factors is more important, if any. So first you would have to find out where your plants came from. If you don't know, I could send you more info on how to tell the Caraca form apart from the otehrs based on morphology. If the plants are too small though, it would be difficult to tell apart the Diamantina form from the Grao Mogol/ Itacambira/Botumirim form, the latter being very distinct when in flower (bigger, beautiful flowers!) and also having differen shaped styles, stamens, and seeds. All the Best, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 04:25:52 GMT Subject: Re: Pinguicula alpina in Iceland Dear Jeurg, Jan and other Pinguicula growers, Whilst in Iceland I saw a copy of the book "Flora of Iceland" by A. Love, published in 1983, by Almenn Bokafelagid, in Reykjavik. In it was the gem of information about Pinguicula alpina, complete with a line drawing. This species has been recorded only three times, between 1785 and 1932, in western and northwestern parts of the island. It is thus very rare; which may in part be due to an incredibly short growing period at this northern lattitude. It would be interesting to know if this population differs from that in Scotland and Norway. Cheers, Robert ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 01:39:36 -0500 Subject: A bookseller URL Below is the URL of a place that has a good supply of the new Nepenthes book by Charles Clarke. Someone on the list posted it just before New Year's so here it is again in case anyone missed it. http://www.orchidweb.com/orchids/ Orchids Limited 4630 Fernbrook Lane Plymouth, MN 55446 Phone: (612)559-6425 Toll Free: 1-800-669-6006 Fax: (612)557-6956 The guy that I talked to on the phone said they received a supply of that book direct from the publisher in Malaysia. Switching gears I have a Nep question. How long does it generally take for highland and lowland neps to strike? I have several stem cuttings of khasiana, gracilis, and coccinea stuck in 4" pots with sphagnum/perlite mix. These in turn are inside sealed transparent plastic food jars and are under high intensity flourescents for 14 hours a day. Does the time of year have any bearing on this? Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:27:29 -0000 Subject: venus flytrap Hi everyone, I am new here to this mailing thing. I have bought some packet from a garden shop in the U.K which includes a packet of seeds and some dried up soil and a 2" pot. I have now successfully germinated the seeds into tiny plants, these are suppose to be venus flytraps but they haven't any traps formed yet. Is this normal, do they have to grow a bit to form traps? I am new to this whole thing about carnivorous plants and know nothing much about it. Could anybody give me some advice on how to grow these Venus flytraps and what soil is best to use etc.. I also want to start tissue culturing, could anybody advice on that too? And could somebody tell me what is the best carnivorous plants to grow in terms of both easyness and beauty. email me at eyhm@btinternet.com thanks ernest ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 18:18:24 GMT Subject: SACPS fieldtrip to Silvermine, Cape Town Greetings fellow cp enthusiasts, Robert here in Cape Town with a brief hot-off-the-press account of a South African Carnivorous Plant Society fieldtrip to the Silvermine area, in the Cape Range, today. Dot and Mark Cappaert (secretary and president of the SACPS), their Belgiun friend Elizabeth, Eric Green and I spent the afternoon near Silvermine, approximately 10km south of Table Mountain. The highlight of the afternoon was the discovery of a natural hybrid, by Elizabeth. It was also interesting to experience highly localised rain in this coastal hilly region. The following species were seen - D. capensis, D. aliciae, D. trinervia, D. glabripes, D. ramentacea, U. bisquamata and D. hilaris. All but the last species were in flower; D. hilaris was dormant. Where D. capensis and D. aliciae grew together a superb example of the natural hybrid between both species was found. It has a semi-erect rosette, to 8 cm across; is effectively stemless; the scape has an initially downcurved base, and for the vertical portion, is covered in short-stalked retentive glands. From this it appears that its parentage is D. aliciae (seed parent) x D. capensis (pollen parent). Whilst this hybrid has been produced artifically on almost every continent it was still brilliant to see that it does occur in nature. The expedition certainly demonstrates how revisiting favourite fieldsites can continue to yield pleasant surprises:-) It was also a pleasure to meet Dot, Mark and Elizabeth. Cheers, Robert PS. For further information on the South African Carnivorous Plant Society please write to Dot Cappaert, PO Box 1378, KRUGERSDORP 1740, Republic of South Africa; fax [South Africa] (0)11 956 6444. ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:46:36 +0100 Subject: Re:N.clipeata Jan wrote: In addition to these climatic factors (elevation, geographical latitude), also edaphic (soil, etc.) factors determine the endemism of this most remarkable species. G.Kelam is an inselberg (an isolated outcrop of siliceous rock). _N. clipeata_ (unlike other plants inhabiting a similar geographical setting) is adapted to this peculiar rock surface situation that is almost devoid of other plants, so it is very unlikely that this species can be found somewhere in the close neighbourhood of G.Kelam (i.e. in habitats in which it would not survive competition by other plants that are more vigorous in these more "normal" habitats). In fact the known specimens indicate that this mountain is the only station of the species at all. It is quite remarkable that this (almost?) extinct species was never protected more than any other _Nepenthes_ (cf. N.mirabilis_!). That is true. But you must know, that there is a another montain nearby Kelam, which is much lower but also an "inselberg". Nobody has been there until now. And what about the sumit-plateau? It is well known, that there is N.bicalcarata, albomarginata ...growing. In over 800 meters! And it is told, that on the slippery and steep rockfaces should be more clipeata. I heard, that the Indonesian government has a scientifical station there. And there is only a small liana up to the last part of the montain! Left and right of the very small and wet path you can fall down a few hundret meters. What will happen, if you cut it? I know, that the Dayaks there use this montain for hunting. I believe we should think about bringing seeds (or invitro speciments) of cultivated clipeata any time back to this montain! Perhaps the Indonesian government can help. -- Homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:50:00 -0500 Subject: Update -- New Year's gift of seed It's almost done. Most of the envelopes went out today to people who requested seed. I'm waiting on a couple of addresses to come in for the remainder. I thought it would be fun to let you know what kind of response this got. I sent out 246 seed packets with each packet hopefully containing about 50 to 100 seeds. Several people requested large quantities of certain seed so when it was available, they got it. I estimate that somewhere between 17,000 to 34,000 seeds went out. Whew! People from 9 US states and 11 countries are receiving seed. The most seed went to Daniel Joel because he mentioned the words conversation and setting up a seed bank in Israel. He got 51 packets and almost 5,000 seed. I'd say Merry Christmas but it probably doesn't work in this situation and I can't spell the other one. I hope you have fun with the seed. David ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:26:44 -0000 Subject: VFT from seeds, HELP! Hi there, I am completely new to this insect eating of the plant kingdom. I have recently got some VFT seeds and they have already germinated.I wonder what is the best time to start planting venus flytraps from seeds. I also want to know what is the best time to plant the other CPs from seeds? could you please give me some advice. thanks, Ernest. (eyhm@btinternet.com) ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 08 Jan 98 18:20 EST Subject: Re: D.aliciae/D.hamiltonii, B.gigantea > From: "Jens Rotthauwe" > > I asked this before but got no answers: > How do I tell D.aliciae from D.hamiltonii when they are not in flower ? > I received a plant labelled hamiltonii and it looks exactly like my aliciaes Hello Jens, D. hamiltonii's leaves seem to have more of a petiole than D. aliciae. Can anyone say what species sp. floating (South Africa) might be? I think it is D.aliciae, but am not sure... Dave Evans ################### From: Michal Dworaczek Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:26:10 -0600 Subject: Looking for Sphagnum moss Does anyone know where to get some seeds of Sphagnum moss? Is it easy to grow? ,-~~-.___. <----------------------------------------> / | ' \ -=| Michal Dworaczek |=- ( ) 0 -=| dworaczek@usa.net |=- \_/-, ,----' -=| (306)-477-2083 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |=- ==== // -=| C A N A D A |=- / \-'~; /~~~(O) <----------------------------------------> / __/~| / IBM | Check out my home page!!! =( ______| (_________| http://dworaczek.home.ml.org YOU CAN ALSO CONTACT ME USING ICQ - MY NUMBER IS 5922615 ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:45:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Looking for Sphagnum moss >Does anyone know where to get some seeds of Sphagnum moss? Is it easy to >grow? > > ,-~~-.___. <----------------------------------------> > / | ' \ -=| Michal Dworaczek |=- Mike: You are in Canada, the largest producer of the stuff. Since it is winter, go to your nearest plant nursery and ask for a bag of live sphagnum moss. I get a shopping bag full for a couple of bucks. It has spores instead of seeds and a handfull of the stuff will quickly spread if you keep it damp and give it bright light. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:38:27 +0800 Subject: Re: Re:N.clipeata Hi Johannes, Thank you for these precisions, but could you also describe the soil and humidity conditions in which the plants grow ? Does siliceous rock means that they grow in sand, or is it sphagnum, and do they have water running on the roots ? Cheers. Gilles >That is true. But you must know, that there is a another montain >nearby Kelam, which is much lower but also an "inselberg". Nobody has >been there until now. And what about the sumit-plateau? It is well >known, that there is N.bicalcarata, albomarginata ...growing. In over >800 meters! And it is told, that on the slippery and steep rockfaces >should be more clipeata. I heard, that the Indonesian government has a >scientifical station there. And there is only a small liana up to the >last part of the montain! Left and right of the very small and wet >path you can fall down a few hundret meters. What will happen, if you >cut it? I know, that the Dayaks there use this montain for hunting. > >I believe we should think about bringing seeds (or invitro speciments) >of cultivated clipeata any time back to this montain! Perhaps the >Indonesian government can help. > >-- >Homepage: >http://home.t-online.de/home/johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm > > > > ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:24:28 -0500 Subject: Lowrie Book I have an extra copy of Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Volume 2 by Allen Lowrie for sale. Anyone interested can contact me at: markp@crscms.com (This is the second of three volumes and covers in detail all of the pygmy droseras with many pictures and line drawings.) Plotting world-wide conquest with D. capensis, Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 04:34:15 EST Subject: D.hamiltonni and D.sp. "S. Africa". Hello to all!!! Bri here...Hmmm,Well,about all i can do is give a comparison of my plants.My D.hamiltonni are a darker green than D.alicae,and twice the size...I've had D.hamiltonni get to about 3" in diameter,while my D.alicae are smaller,maybe 2""....The only real difference i've seen is ...darker coloration{green} and larger size...My D."S. Africa " Looks kinda like a spatulate version of D.slackii,with small,tight rosettes maybe an inch in diameter...This sp. definately seems to hate cooler weather...anything below 55 deg.F,as some African sp. do.......Feeding my flytraps Filet Mignon,Brian:).....Hey,any one got any Heliams for sale or trade??LOTS of them?? email me.......Brian ################### From: "E.A.J-C. Valette" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:43:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: sphagnum moss Can someone tell me what the difference between moss and sphagnum moss? Is the sphagnum moss in Canada differente of this in France for example? The plants I bought in my garden center have no moss!! and It is drying quite quick. I thougt use the moss which growing all the year under the christmas trees in my garden (Framce). This moss grows very vigorous under the trees. It is like a cushion 2 cm depth and It propagates with creeping extension. I think this moss is used to create flowers decoration. Is it wrong if I m going to use it? thanks of advices Eric ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 05:46:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Ernest The trap on the Venus grows out 3/4 of an inch before you'll see the begining of the formation of the trap and then it will unfold. As for the medium find the darkest/richest Canadian peat type. You might also want to use some white styafoam (spelling) pellects, to help allow air around the roots. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 06:21:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Venus Ernest When to plant seeds. Tomorrow, after you put seeds in cup of water over night. Just place the seed on top of peat where you want to grow, it is possible to move to another potbut for a short time bring water to the height of the soil so that the plant can absorb enough until it start to grow again. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: -Tom- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:28:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Update -- New Year's gift of seed David, >requested seed. I'm waiting on a couple of addresses to come in for >the remainder. Like I said before, I am in no big hurry - whenever:) >I thought it would be fun to let you know what kind of response this >got. I sent out 246 seed packets with each packet hopefully containing >about 50 to 100 seeds. Several people requested large quantities of >certain seed so when it was available, they got it. I estimate that >somewhere between 17,000 to 34,000 seeds went out. Whew! That is a hell of a lot of seed! >I hope you have fun with the seed. I just hope it germinates:) The fun will come when I get to see them grow up! Take care & keep on growing, Thomas K. Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS dangerous_plants@hotmail.com tkhayes@mail.microserve.net http://www.infinicom.com/~thayes ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:59:06 -0500 Subject: RE: venus flytrap > I am new to this whole thing about carnivorous > plants and know nothing much about it. Could anybody > give me some advice on how to grow these Venus > flytraps and what soil is best to use etc.. > I also want to start tissue culturing, could anybody > advice on that too? Ernest, There are some excellent pages on the Web. The CP FAQ is at http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/faq/faq.html There's another very good page (including at least one link to tissue culture info) at http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cparchive.html You can also learn a great deal from lurking on the CP list. Good growing, Phil URL du jour: http://www.squirrelnutzippers.com/ ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 17:41:10 GMT Subject: Drosera sp. "floating" Dear Dave and all other cp fans, Drosera sp. "floating" is allied to D. admirabilis (ie in the D. cuneifolia complex). I have yet to see the flower structure but the leaf, to 2 cm long, is cuneiform, with very few white hairs on the leaf undersurface (cf D. aliciae). The scape has an ascending base which clears the rosette edge before becoming erect (this is closer to D. aliciae than D. admirabilis). This variant grows in a shallow, perennial creek adjacent to D. regia, in a mountain valley NE of Cape Town. It's ambiguous fieldname is derived from some plants in the colony which grow in a few cm of water, and which have short, flexible stems and leaves with up arched bases, so that the rosettes are at the water surface and may be moved around a little on the flexible, but definitely strongly fixed stem. This field name has led to some confusion on how to cultivate this variant. One additional feature of this variant, apparently not shared by other perennial flat rosetted Drosera in South Africa is the pressence of sessile, small red, retentive galnds on the leaf undersurface. Before the month is out I look forward to revisiting the site, and , hopefully, see the open flowers. More details, with a sketch, are in the September Bulletin of the Ausytralian Carnivorous Plant Society, or check out photos taken by Fernando or myself. This variant is readily available from nurseries in Europe, especially Germany, and those plants in cultivation appear to have a more extensive hair cover on the leaf undersurface. Stay tuned for further details.... Robert Gibson ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:57:00 -0500 Subject: off to the islands I will be travelling to Puerto Rico the week of Jan 12 to investigate a hazardous waste site. If you have questions about your seed request, I will answer them after January 20. Also, the rest of the seed requests will go out today. If you do not receive your seeds in a reasonable amount of time for where you live, please send me an email, and I will check whether or not I sent your seeds. I try to be infallible, so much is expected of government employees , but there is a chance that I may have misplaced someone's email request. David Atlanta USA ################### From: "the drake" Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 21:25:59 -0700 Subject: GREAT BRITAIN CP COLLECTORS If there are any CP collectors in Great Britain who live near "Cambrian Carnivores", know the telephone number for the place, or know the owner or his personal telephone number, please reply to me with this information. I had sent an order and want to change the order, but am unable to get in touch with the owner (Peter Cole) at Cambrian Carnivores. I am trying to find out if there is anybody on this list who can deliver a message in person for me, or can provide any of the info I asked about. Thanks. Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:49:13 -0000 Subject: I need help with T.C I am living in the U.K now and wish to start tissue culturing but I do not have any pressure cooker. I wonder if it is possible to do tissue culturing without this pressure cooker provided I have a microwave and an oven.Can somebody advice please. ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 21:04:57 -0500 Subject: Re:Striking Nep Cuttings Trent here in the office. Your description of how you are taking cuttings sounds like it should work. Allow the khasiana cuttings to experience a significantly lower night temperature drop than the gracilis and Coccinea. For the two lowlanders try nights around 65 F and the khasiana may not strike at all unless down to 55-60 degrees F. Here in Florida, I can only take cutting of highlanders in the dead of winter, when I have night temp drops that Neps all seem to love. They seem to root quicker and are less prone to black rot. I have struck maxima with 100% sucess by waiting to take the cuttings in mid Dec. As for light, I put them under the benches and don't touch until they produce a pitcher. Very important where cuttings are concerned-Do Not Move Them Around! -Don't even rotate the pot! Good luck. I hope this helps. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: patfi Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:41:38 +1300 Subject: changing e-mail address Hi all... I am just trying to tell this list that I have changed address from... patfi@iconz.co.nz to.....patfi@xtra.co.nz. Unfortuneately the list info was on my old Eudora stuff that got turfed ages ago...HELP!!!!! how do I go about this minor task????? Thanks for your help Fiona - a newsgroup newbie!! ################### From: TANWK Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:51:26 +0800 Subject: N.lowii photo Dear Fellow-CP'ers, I have photos of (a) a $5 Brunei currency note showing N. lowii (on the note itself it is given as Somboi somboi, probably its native name); (b) Malayan stamps showing Nepenthes lowii, rajah, sanguinea, and macfarlanei; (c) Malaysian $20 currency note showing N.rafflesiana. Would someone who has a CP website showing Nepenthes photos like to have the above on his/her website as well? I also have photos of the natural hybrid (N. rafflesiana x N. gracilis). Although N. rafflesiana and N. gracilis are common here in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, the natural hybrid itself is not. [There are no photos of it in the following books: Nepenthes of Borneo (Clarke) Pitcher Plants of Borneo (Phillipps & Lamb) Pitcher Plants of Malaya and Singapore (Shivas) Nepenthes of Mount Kinabalu (Kurata)] Happy CP'ing to all, TAN Wee Kiat from Singapore ################### From: Joe Cumbee Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:20:23 -0500 Subject: Re: I need help with T.C Ernest, Try http://www.home.turbonet.com/sati/tcinfo.htm I think you find what you need. Eric Cumbee Ernest Ming wrote: > I am living in the U.K now and wish to start tissue culturing but I do not > have any pressure cooker. I wonder if it is possible to do tissue culturing > without this pressure cooker provided I have a microwave and an oven.Can > somebody advice please. ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:39:39 +0100 Subject: Growing conditions of clipeata Hi Gilles, >Hi Johannes, >Thank you for these precisions, but could you also describe the soil and >humidity conditions in which the plants grow ? >Does siliceous rock means that they grow in sand, or is it sphagnum, and do >they have water running on the roots ? It is hard to say how the conditions have been before the fire there (by the way, I do not believe, that the all the plants have been stolen by collectors, as Clarke write in his book; the end of these plants was the fire). I saw many chared trees and only less protecting Vegetation and no more clipeata. On the right photo of my homepage you have a few over the landsscape near Sintang nearby the location of clipeata. Nep. clipeata grew there in gras and mould on outlets of rock. Siliceous means the kind of rock which Kelam consists of. There was a lot of running water but I don't know if it was running on the roots. I don't think so, because running water will wash all soil down. N.clipeata is easy to grow. A well drained soil ( I use dried clay-pearls, quarzsand = siliceous and peat), not too cold and too hot temperatures (18-30\260Cel.) and a ventilation in summer, this is a good method. My plants are 25 years in culture and flowered several times. Bye Johannes -- Homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:52:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Growing conditions of clipeata Hi Johannes >It is hard to say how the conditions have been before the fire there >(by the way, I do not believe, that the all the plants have been >stolen by collectors, as Clarke write in his book; the end of these >plants was the fire). I saw many chared trees and only less protecting >Vegetation and no more clipeata. On the right photo of my homepage you >have a few over the landsscape near Sintang nearby the location of >clipeata. Nep. clipeata grew there in gras and mould on outlets of >rock. Siliceous means the kind of rock which Kelam consists of. There >was a lot of running water but I don't know if it was running on the >roots. I don't think so, because running water will wash all soil >down. Was this fire that you speak of a natural event? In Canada as, indeed, most of the world in certain biosystems, fire is an event that enables regeneration of endemic flora and fauna (bugs are the first entry into a burn zone). Is it possible that N. clipeata is adapted to, or has an adaptation for, regular or sporadic, fire events? I think of our Canadian plains and prairie grasses and shrubs, or Australia's outback "bush" where fire is a necessity for germination and re-establishment of dormant species, when I ask this question. Perhaps there is no applicable comparison, here? Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:28:11 -0000 Subject: where can I find Spagnum moss in the U.K? Hi everybody, I am from the U.K and wonder if anybody can give me some idea into which I can get good Spagnum peat moss and Life spagnum from? ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 13:48:14 GMT Subject: where can I find Spagnum moss in the U.K? On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:45:07 -0800, "Ernest Ming" wrote: >Hi everybody, I am from the U.K and wonder if anybody can give me some = idea >into which I can get good Spagnum peat moss and Life spagnum from? I get my live sphagnum from Marston Exotics near Hereford. It's about 40 mins drive from me and I can't find anywhere else to get it from. Andrew --=20 Andrew Bate andrew@astilla.demon.co.uk http://www.astilla.demon.co.uk ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:59:29 +0100 Subject: N.clipeata conditions Hi Gilles, >Hi Johannes, >Thank you for these precisions, but could you also describe the soil and >humidity conditions in which the plants grow ? >Does siliceous rock means that they grow in sand, or is it sphagnum, and do >they have water running on the roots ? It is hard to say how the conditions have been before the fire there (by the way, I do not believe, that the all the plants have been stolen by collectors, as Clarke write in his book; the end of these plants was the fire). I saw many chared trees and only less protecting Vegetation and no more clipeata. On the right photo of my homepage you have a few over the landsscape near Sintang nearby the location of clipeata. Nep. clipeata grew there in gras and mould on outlets of rock. Siliceous means the kind of rock which Kelam consists of. There was a lot of running water but I don't know if it was running on the roots. I don't think so, because running water will wash all soil away. N.clipeata is easy to grow. A well drained soil ( I use dried clay-pearls, quarzsand = siliceous and peat), not too cold and too hot temperatures (18-30\260Cel.) and a ventilation in summer, this is a good method. My plants are 25 years in culture and flowered several times. Bye Johannes -- Homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ################### From: M & M Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:10:11 +10 Subject: I need help with T.C Hi Ernest; you can simply fill up your glass bottle (clear beer bottles thoroughly cleaned ok) with agar solution to be sterilised and place it on some cloth in the bottom of a large pot. Fill the pot with water half way up your bottles and simmer for about 75minutes with the lid on the pot. Let everything cool down with the lid still on (will take 3-4 hours to reach room temp.) & presto sterilisation !! !! Goodluck! Mark - OZ ################### From: "Gerrie Buckley" Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:11:48 +0200 Subject: venus fly trap Dear Mr Green My venus fly trap"s traps don't open after i had to drown it because of the bug. Do you know why this could have happened, Best Wishes Stuart ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:00:38 +0100 Subject: To Philippe Wauters Hi all Sorry for posting this here, but I'm seeking for a friend (seems his address is definetely out-of-order). So I'll be glad if anyone could help me to contact : PHILIPPE WAUTERS Philippe, si tu lis ces lignes contacte-moi Laurent Ide ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 19:40:50 GMT Subject: Drosera sp. "Ceres" South Africa Greetings all, Today Eric Green, Gunther, Kathy and Dieter Eitz and I had a wonderful and successful field trip to the Ceres area, in the moutains NE of Cape Town around Ceres. Our main aim was to find an interesting evergreen Drosera, allied to D. aliciae, and given the field name D. sp. "Ceres". About 10 years ago Gunther Eitz and Thomas Carow (Hi Thomas) undertook fieldwork in this area and discovered this red rosetted Drosera which they recognised as different. Today Gunther refound the site, easily, as it turned out. The sundews, to 4 cm across, have spathulate leaves with retentive glands on the oval lamina only; the broadly triangular petiole is hairless. The leaf undersurface is moderately covered with white hairs. No open flowers were seen today on the slender scapes. This variant is allied to D. aliciae but the leaf shape is a little different (more like that of D. dielsiana), and it is not vigorous for only 3 to 4 leaves of each rosette are ever bedewed and capable of trapping insects. The flower structure has not yet been studied. It grows with D. capensis, U. bisquamata and sphagnum moss. Not far away we had the pleasure of seeing a few plants of Roridula dentata, and, on the edge of a large dam, an abundance of D. capensis and U. bisquamata. In a zone of constant water seepage over rocks D. trinervia rosettes were actively growing. What a brilliant day. Cheers, Robert ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 03:18:34 -0500 (EST) Subject: more photos Done scanning, done Photshopping, done writing. I've put up some more pages with photos of my recent trip to a bog in Orlando, FL. I've made it more of a narrative this time, so be warned if you're just looking for pictures. (Although I think it's nice to read, anyway. :) There are some interesting things in these new pages: photos of a very variable D.capillaris or maybe there are hybrids there? An unidentified Utricularia! One, maybe two species of Pinguicula, you tell me. There's even a frog and a turtle! What more could you want? http://www.illusionary.com/~dglidden/cp/ Once again, feedback is requested and appreciated. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: Johannes.Marabini@t-online.de (Johannes Marabini) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:34:00 +0100 Subject: Re:N.clipeata fire Hi, sorry for mailing my comment twice! Hi Rand, < Was this fire that you speak of a natural event? I don't think so. I believe there was the same reason as this year: El Ninio! In 1983 was a very strong El Ninio and thousands of square miles burned down. The fire at Kelam was later. But the reason was - so I think - the same: the natives there burned the rainforest for agriculture. I also don't believe that clipeata is adapted to fire. You can compare this case with the destiny of Nepenthes campanulata: died out by a fire. So I often think about CITES-regulations on the one hand and destroying of natural living space of carnivorous plants on the other hand. No protection by law will help to stop the dieing out of species, if the locations will be destroyed by sattlement, new roads or mining of natural resorces (including trees). In my opinion N. clipeata is not the last carnivorous plant, which will die out in the next time. Johannes -- Homepage: http://home.t-online.de/home/johannes.marabini@t-online.de/index.htm ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:29:48 -0400 Subject: Re:N.clipeata fire >Hi Rand, > >< Was this fire that you speak of a natural event? > >I don't think so. I believe there was the same reason as this year: El >Ninio! In 1983 was a very strong El Ninio and thousands of square >miles burned down. The fire at Kelam was later. But the reason was - >so I think - the same: the natives there burned the rainforest for >agriculture. I also don't believe that clipeata is adapted to fire. >You can compare this case with the destiny of Nepenthes campanulata: >died out by a fire. > >So I often think about CITES-regulations on the one hand and >destroying of natural living space of carnivorous plants on the other >hand. No protection by law will help to stop the dieing out of >species, if the locations will be destroyed by sattlement, new roads I have often railed against the indiscriminate stupidity of CITES as it now stands. It is so loose and open to interpretation (_not_ a unifying policy of standards) that it is unworkable. Designed to protect and preserve, it instead insures that many rare and endangered plants will find no sanctuary in the gardens, greenhouses and homes of what is (in my opinion) becoming one of the last bastions of preservation of species; the amateur grower, or hobbyist. These people should be recognized for what they are: An amazing resource with untapped potential. Under CITES they are often treated as pests, no matter what their credentials. There are private unsubsidized collections that have plants that can be found nowhere else in the world, because their habitats no longer exist; much for the same reasons that you describe above. >or mining of natural resorces (including trees). In my opinion N. >clipeata is not the last carnivorous plant, which will die out in the >next time. > >Johannes Reluctantly, I must agree with you. A sobering thought. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:03:00 -0000 Subject: Use of vermiculi According to some people you could use sand and vermiculi to aerate the soil composition whilst the vermculi could retain some water.Is this vermiculi made from rice?if so would it not induce the growth of moulds? can somebody tell me please. Ernest. ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:36:49 -0400 Subject: Re: Use of vermiculi >According to some people you could use sand and vermiculi to aerate the >soil composition whilst the vermculi could retain some water.Is this >vermiculi made from rice?if so would it not induce the growth of moulds? >can somebody tell me please. > >Ernest. Vermiculite is made from a mineral and, as such, _initally_ is not prone to fungus or molds. The downside is that the stuff degenerates and compacts after a few months and is a great host to algae and other slimes, eventually degrading the quality of the medium (in _my_ experience) that you use for CPs. I avoid the stuff, entirely, for any kind of plants. As a suggestion, try substituting equal amounts of perlite and milled (brown) peat for the amount of vermiculite that you use when you make up your planting medium. Incorporated with sand, I find this an excellent medium for growing Cephalotus. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:23:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Stuart Malathyon for bugs. if Venus leaves turn black, to much water. In Winter water enough to keep soil moist but don't keep a dish under to keep it standing in water. If you have seen the plants in the little cups in the store, there is somthing to that little clear plastic cup on top, for reasons the cup top keeps humidity right for plant and keep the wind from drying out the trap. Kill a fly or two tape the top off and put in trap. Either that or move to North Carolina, or the Pan-Handle of Florida. (thats take the top off not tape) Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Volvo 850R Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:30:28 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes I use a soil substrate of orchid bark, charcoal, peat, sand, perlite. Is this OK? Thanks ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:23:15 PST Subject: Sarracenia growth habits in the wild Hi. For those of you that have seen Sarracenia growing in the wild[Carl, Tom, Dave, Peter, etc.], can you tell me how often their roots penetrate down into the waterline? I am looking at using a Rubbermaid 150 gallon plastic livestock watering trough as a giant pot/bog. The watering trough is oval at the top roughly 5 feet by 3 feet by 2 feet deep. Currently I grow all my Sarracenias in pots sitting in standing water. They have flourished under these conditions despite our low [as compared to their native habitat] humidity in the summer. I am concerned that if I transplant the Sarracenia into the watering trough, I will not be able to safely raise the waterline to the plants's roots. [Having a foot or more of peat constantly submerged underwater would lead to anaerobic conditions.] As it stands now, in the summer the waterline drops substantially during the course of a day on the Sarracenia pots. By the evening most of the potting media is getting oxygen. This sharp daily waterline fluctuation would not occur with the watering trough setup I envision. The volume of water stored is just too great. Why mess with what works already, one might ask. During the summer I have to add water daily to the multitude of Rubbermaid dish pans the Sarracenia sit in. During the winter I have to bail out the dish pans after every rain storm for my plants submerge rapidly. In the Spring I have to repot everything to accomodate the new growth. I now longer have the free time to continue with this practice. I also can't afford to leave town for any length of time. Before embarking on this endevour, I need to get some kind of idea how much extra benefit Sarracenias get having their roots reach into the waterline in hot dryish weather as opposed to growing in just moist to wet conditions in similar circumstances. I also could use input on how well peat/perlite mixes wick up water. [There might be a foot to a foot and a half of peat/perlite mix between the waterline and the surface of the watering trough. Might the bottom of the media be sopping wet while the top is bone dry?] I am looking for insight and opinions before I take the plunge and do this. No one will be held at all acountable for any bad advice. Any sort of relevant experience would be much appreciated. Thanks a lot, --Zachary-- e-mail: zkaufman@hotmail.com P.S. The watering trough is designed to sit entirely above ground. It would basically be a massive pot. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com (Michael A Sankovich) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:36:14 -0500 Subject: Rubbermaid tubs Zachary, I have used rubbermaid stock watering tanks for about 8 years. I have used the 50 and 100 gallon sizes. Of the two I prefer the 50 gallon size. I fill them with a 50-50 pete sand mixture, and build wooden trucks with castors for wheeling them around. I have found that the 100 gal size used about 6 cubic feet of peat. with the depth anaerobic conditions develop and it seems a big waste of peat. However the 50 gallon size works really well. Both have the same surface area. I currently have one with six different clumps of Sarracenias in it. They are growing in live sphagnum moss and through a matrix of cranberry vines. The water levels fluctuate with rainfall and evaporation. I can usually push my hand down between the moss and the sides to check the moisture level, and water accordingly. Standing water has never seemed to bother them. they all flower and produce seed. This year I was even able to harvest cranberries for the first time. In the past I have wheeled them to an enclosed unheated porch for the winter, and yes they have even frozen with no ill effects. This winter I have decided to cover one with plastic and place in an unheated garage,(filtered light) which has the potential for longer and harder freezes. Wish me luck as I have had this tub for 6 years. So far we have had a mild winter here in the north eastern U.S. My other potted plants will spend the winter in standing water outdoors at the mercy of the elements and I will just wait till spring and see what happens. I have also built an in the ground rubber lined seepage bog with a water collection sump in the bottom and pump the water to the other end for 15 minutes of every hour, every day. This never has the chance to go anaerobic. and is doing well into it's 3rd winter. It measures 3ft X 16 ft and 18 in deep. I hope that I have been of some assistance to you . Any questions can be directed to me at my Email address. Michael A Sankovich >I am looking at using a Rubbermaid 150 gallon plastic livestock >watering trough as a giant pot/bog. The watering trough is oval at >the top roughly 5 feet by 3 feet by 2 feet deep. Currently I grow all >my Sarracenias in pots sitting in standing water. They have >flourished under these conditions despite our low [as compared to >their native habitat] humidity in the summer. I am concerned that if >I transplant the Sarracenia into the watering trough, I will not be >able to safely raise the waterline to the plants's roots. [Having >a foot or more of peat constantly submerged underwater would lead to >anaerobic conditions.] As it stands now, in the summer the waterline >drops substantially during the course of a day on the Sarracenia pots. >By the evening most of the potting media is getting oxygen. This >sharp daily waterline fluctuation would not occur with the watering >trough setup I envision. The volume of water stored is just too >great. > >Why mess with what works already, one might ask. During the summer >I have to add water daily to the multitude of Rubbermaid dish pans >the Sarracenia sit in. During the winter I have to bail out the >dish pans after every rain storm for my plants submerge rapidly. >In the Spring I have to repot everything to accomodate the new >growth. I now longer have the free time to continue with this >practice. I also can't afford to leave town for any length of time. > >Before embarking on this endevour, I need to get some kind of idea >how much extra benefit Sarracenias get having their roots >reach into the waterline in hot dryish weather as opposed to growing >in just moist to wet conditions in similar circumstances. I also >could use input on how well peat/perlite mixes wick up water. [There >might be a foot to a foot and a half of peat/perlite mix between the >waterline and the surface of the watering trough. Might the bottom of >the media be sopping wet while the top is bone dry?] > >I am looking for insight and opinions before I take the plunge and do >this. No one will be held at all acountable for any bad advice. Any >sort of relevant experience would be much appreciated. > >Thanks a lot, >--Zachary-- >e-mail: zkaufman@hotmail.com > >P.S. The watering trough is designed to sit entirely above ground. > It would basically be a massive pot. > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >------------------------------ > >End of CP Digest 1324 >********************* > ################### From: "the drake" Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:58:20 -0700 Subject: CAMBRIAN CARNIVORES WHAT IS GOING ON WITH CAMBRIAN CARNIVORES???? ANYBODY OUT THERE KNOW? PLEASE SOMEBODY RESPOND. THANKS drake Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ################### From: Guy.VanDerKinderen@rug.ac.be Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:51:32 +0000 Subject: Re:sphagnum moss Dear Eric, I saw that you still needed some explaining about sphagnum. Here's some information. > Can someone tell me what the difference between moss and sphagnum moss? Sphagnum itself is a genus of mosses (Bryophyta); there are several species, some of which may be cosmopolytic. > Is the sphagnum moss in Canada differente of this in France for example? No. There is indeed some difference between the species and the appearance may be influenced by the growing site, although in nature, all of them have their own niche. For instance, S. compactum grows, as its name indicates, very compact to the substratum, while S. squarrosum is a long and leggy growing species. > The plants I bought in my garden center have no moss!! and It is drying > quite quick. I don't know which plants you are dealing with here, but normally CP do not really need sphagnum, although they may grow better in it. Maybe something else is wrong with your plants. > I thought use the moss which growing all the year under the christmas trees > in my garden (Framce). This moss grows very vigorous under the trees. It > is like a cushion 2 cm depth and It propagates with creeping extension. I > think this moss is used to create flowers decoration. Since Sphagnum mosses exclusively grow in wet, nutrient-poor and acid conditions (bogs), I do not think your moss is Sphagnum. According to the description you give, it may be a Rhythidiadelphus species which indeed is very often used in flower arrangements. It has not the typical properties as Sphagnum, such as water-uptake, and very important: its aseptic properties (that is live moss!). > Is it wrong if I m going to use it? It may be usefull for certain plants, but I would advise to not use it as a replacement for Sphagnum. Kind regards, Guy VdK ################### From: dmjoel@netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:04:10 +0200 (IST) Subject: Sarracenia roots Hi Zachary. >For those of you that have seen Sarracenia growing in the wild[Carl, >Tom, Dave, Peter, etc.], can you tell me how often their roots penetrate >down into the waterline? A Sarracenia hybrid (probably purpurea X flava) grows on our kitchen window, now for two years. The pot lies in a big mug that is daily filled with water. The roots penetrated the water, and seem to develop happily there (I inspect the roots everyday when adding water). Is that the sort of relevant experience that you were looking for? Danny from Israel ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:01:32 +0100 Subject: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature Dear Barry, I have received the three seed mixtures coming from the location of the anthocyanin free Darlingtonia's (from the UK CPS). In your article in the ICPN Newsletter you write that you discovered the differences between the normal and the variant Darlingtonia's by means of the (lack of) coloration of the flowers. I am willing to support the scientific experiment you have set up. When will I be able to differentiate between the normal and the variant Darlingtonia's ? Will that be in about 5 years when the plants start flowering, or can it be done earlier, by looking at growing shoots, pitcher coloration, ... ? You write that you "do not want to see that invalid name [Darlingtonia californica F. heterophylla] thrown around by growers!". Can you tell me why this would be invalid and when one can speak (nomenclatury correct) of a subspecie, form, ... Kind regards Wim ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:00:04 Subject: Re: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature Dear Wim, Barry has had some email problems recently, but possibly I can comment on some of your questions: > You write that you "do not want to see that invalid name [Darlingtonia > californica F. heterophylla] thrown around by growers!". Can you tell me > why this would be invalid and when one can speak (nomenclatury correct) > of a subspecie, form, ... As you will probably know (but perhaps there are some listeners who would like to read this as well), there are principally two different aspects in a scientific plant name: taxonomy and nomenclature. Taxonomy is the process of grouping organisms into mutually exclusive entities (taxa). Nomenclature is the process of naming these entities correctly. The rules (International Code of Botanical Nomenclature) apply only to the latter process. Any name published according to these formal rules is *valid* (or "nomenclaturally correct"). This does *NOT* mean that this name has to be *accepted* (or "taxonomically correct") by all authors. There are in fact a lot of valid names that are nevertheless considered (taxonomic) synonyms of other names by at least some authors. The problem with the white _Darlingtonia_ is its not yet established taxonomic status. Perhaps some people think it should be segregated from the normal (anthocyanin-containing) plants, and others do not. If it is to be segregated, the rank (form, variety, subspecies) has to be determined at which it should be separated. While the rank may not matter much in taxonomy (as long as the relative limits of the groups are clear; in our case _D. californica_ as a species would clearly include the white plants at some rank below species), it is quite essential for nomenclature (any newly described taxon must have a clearly stated rank). There are some people (incl. myself) who think that a taxon at whatever rank must have some evolutionary meaning (i.e. represent an adaptation to environmental factors). In a complicated biosynthesis like for anthocyanins, there are plenty of possibilities for mutations to preclude formation of the final metabolite. Still, an anthocyanin- free plant does survive because its primary metabolism is not or only marginally affected by the defect. Only after generations (if at all), the different colouration of the flowers will lead to decreased cross-fertilization, i.e. to genetical drift, i.e. potentially to the elimination of such mutants from a population. In the meanwhile other mutants may appear that have the same phenotype (even if the mutation occurred in another gene of the same pathway). This may even lead to a +/- constant percentage of white plants within normal populations. I therefore maintain that anthocyanin albinos (which are known in almost any anthocyanin-containing species) do *not* have any taxonomic relevance, as long as they do not constitute separated populations that behave ecologically and chorologically independently from their ancestral taxon. They can be of horticultural value, but this is no taxonomic issue. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:37:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Sarracenia growth habits in the wild > Hi. > > For those of you that have seen Sarracenia growing in the wild[Carl, > Tom, Dave, Peter, etc.], can you tell me how often their roots penetrate > down into the waterline? In the wild you see a lot of variety. However, my experiences suggest that for the most part the plants are definitely "waterlogged". In many cases the waterline is only about two or three inches below the surface, and of course in the Okefenokee swamp, S. minor and S. psittacina are just about aquatic (well okay, not quite). Your experiences (cut for brevity's sake) with sitting Sarrs. in water are similar to mine and other growers - the quality of the plants is great but it gets to be a real pain. The good news is that plenty of people have very good results using the approach you want to use. Begin with good quality materials, - be careful of the kind of peat you use - and get it good and wet. I'm not even sure you need perlite, I would probably use a peat/sand mixture. Someone else should comment on this. Then be prepared to spend all your time weeding out all the grass, dandelions, oak tree sprouts, etc. etc. that find their way into your pristine bog. You don't get out of any of the work, the tasks just change! Tom in Fl > Thanks a lot, > --Zachary-- > e-mail: zkaufman@hotmail.com ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:57:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature Wim, You asked me when you will be able to detect the difference between the normal (anthocyanin-containing) and variant (anthocyanin-free) Darlingtonia. I have a lot of experience with Sarracenia, and think I would be able to detect the difference in seedling plants (a year or so old). Look for lime-green coloration in the variant plants, while the growing points of the normal plants (apical meristem area) will be blushed with red or pink. > You write that you "do not want to see that invalid name [Darlingtonia > californica F. heterophylla] thrown around by growers!". Can you tell me > why this would be invalid and when one can speak (nomenclatury correct) > of a subspecie, form, ... If and when this plant is formally described in a botanical journal, it can be given a name like Darlingtonia californica f. luteola or something like that. Because an anthocyanin-free variant of Sarracenia purpurea subsp. purpurea has been botanically described as f. heterophylla, some CP enthusiasts add "f. heterophylla" onto any anthocyanin-free variant. This is incorrect. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: Joe Harden Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:08:57 -0600 Subject: Scanning! I have already helped someone out...and I am offering the same to anyone else --- If you have some photos you want scanned (.jpg, .bmp, etc etc) I will be happy to do so. I have a scanner here at work...and whenever it gets slow, I need something to do :) Email me if you're interested. Joe Harden jharden@txdirect.net ################### From: "Kamil Pasek" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:32:50 +0100 Subject: Gemmae free I have a lot of gemmae of this pygmies: D.dichrosepala (limited) D.manni D.microscapa D.nitidula ssp. omissa x D. pulchlella D.pulchella Orange Flower D.pulchella Pink Flower D.pulchella White Flower, Red Centre D.roseana D. sp. Lake Badgerup I will send this species everyone free - only for postage and package - $6 for each parcel. If you are interested in something write me please your concrete request. Happy growing, Kamil _____________________________________________________ Kamil Pasek, L. Podeste 1871, 70800 Ostrava 8, Czech Republic e. mail : kamil.pasek@usa.net, adela.revue@post.cz _____________________________________________________ ################### From: Ernest Ming Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:15:10 -0000 Subject: cambrian carnivores unknown query Hi there, could somebody tell me how I can contact the staff in Cambrian carnivores in U.K? I have trouble querying through email cause I never get a reply. telephone number? fax number? please tell me if you know, thanx a lot, Ernie ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:15:03 GMT Subject: Re: Gemmae free On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:24:01 -0800, you wrote: >I have a lot of gemmae of this pygmies: >If you are interested in something write me please your concrete >request. Kamil, We could use to expand our school collection in this area. We would be interested in gennae of all of these plants. Tell me what I need to do to= send you the necessary payment if the plants are still available. Thank you for making the offer. Dr. James Aldridge =46ort Worth Country Day School 4200 Country Day Lane =46ort Worth, Texas 76109 USA 817-732-6631 James Aldridge, Ph.D. - jaldr@onramp.net OR jaldr@fwcds.pvt.tenet.edu =46ort Worth Country Day School =46ort Worth, TX USA ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:45:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia growth habits in the wild >Hi. > >For those of you that have seen Sarracenia growing in the wild[Carl, >Tom, Dave, Peter, etc.], can you tell me how often their roots penetrate >down into the waterline? It all depends on the plants your are looking at, the time of year and where they are growing. I've seen psittacina growing about 8 inches below water level in the summer and also growing, floating on the surface of 2 foot deep pond. I've also seen minor growing in places that looked so dry, that you'd never imaging it would support a wetland plant! I can't say I've ever dug a hole to see where the actual water table exists in any bogs, however, I'd guess that a least the tipps of the roots have access to the water table most of the time. >Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome ################### From: "the drake" Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:11:17 -0700 Subject: Re: cambrian carnivores unknown query >Hi there, could somebody tell me how I can contact the staff in Cambrian >carnivores in U.K? >I have trouble querying through email cause I never get a reply. >telephone number? fax number? >please tell me if you know, > >thanx a lot, > >Ernie > Ernie, I have had the same problem. I sent a money order and cannot get my money back unless Cambrian Carnivores sends me back my money order. I have sent email numerous times, posted to this list numerous times, and last week sent postal mail to them telling them to cancel my order and send my money order back to me. I sent the order to them in December. I once purchased something from them before and I was pleased with my order, but now I need that money back and I cannot reach them! Anybody out there who can help? PLEASE SOMEBODY RESPOND! thanks drakeofusa@mailexcite.com Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ################### From: Volvo 850R Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:47:51 -0800 Subject: MAD CUSTOMERS James and Patricia Pietropolo and employees, I am a young, 15 year old carnivorous plant (mainly Nepenthes) enthusiast. I currently have: N. ampullaria (Cantley's red) N. lowii N. inermis N. ventricosa N. rajah Some sarracenia's and Droseras. I get my friends and relatives into buying and liking this wonderful hobby, but I NEVER show them your useless, rip-off, list! Your Nepenthes are unbelievable rip-offs! Those are the most common species available, and you're selling them for $27.95? That's BS! I can get that Shit for 7.50 each! Awhile back when I just began to like Carnivorous plants, I ordered a Darlingtonia Californica from you for $6.95 (I was stupid to buy from you). It arrived with only 1 wilted pitcher. I was fuckin' mad. From that day on, I never told anyone about your list and I even have my own homepage that tells CP hobbyists to not buy from a rip-off bullshit operated couple. (MIND MY LANGUAGE, when I get mad) Here are some sites that your FUCKIN' employees and you 2 should check out! www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/pp.html (YOU BETTER CHECK THIS PAGE OUT) -After I read it, I thought, it's a black-hearted couple that's trying to gyp customers. OTHER WEBSITES DON'T EVEN HAVE YOU GUYS LISTED!!!!! Here is what some unhappy customers said on that page: -One guy stated that Peter wanted a buyer to "MASS RAPE" the land since he was going to the native Sarracenia habitat and buy them for a lousy. .50 each! -He gets "suckers" to pick plants for him from the wild! -One guy ordered a PRICEY Rafflesiana, but it turned out to be a hybrid that only a "mother could love!" -One guy ordered a bushel of live sphagnum moss and they said it would be sent out tomorrow. They said, "NO PROBLEM" The person was only 200km from PETER PAUL'S, so postage should be quick. 2 WEEKS later and STILL haven't received moss. After 2 whole months, it arrives with bugs, stick, and berries. ....once bitten, twice shy.... -Many bad stories about this guy (Jam, and Pat) -MANY PEOPLE SUGGEST NOT TO BUY FROM HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Your a crook. -Everyone else, please tell friends and family members to not buy from this guy. He's no good. Don't believe me? Check out the site yourself. A fuck of a guy ################### From: Volvo 850R Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:03:48 -0800 Subject: Re: MAD CUSTOMERS Volvo 850R wrote more: (13 total Nepenthes reared) > > James and Patricia Pietropolo and employees, > > I am a young, 15 year old carnivorous plant (mainly Nepenthes) > enthusiast. I currently have: > N. ampullaria (Cantley's red) > N. lowii > N. inermis > N. ventricosa > N. rajah N. other species > Some sarracenia's and Droseras. > > I get my friends and relatives into buying and liking this wonderful > hobby, but I NEVER show them your useless, rip-off, list! Your Nepenthes > are unbelievable rip-offs! Those are the most common species available, > and you're selling them for $27.95? That's BS! I can get that Shit for > 7.50 each! > Awhile back when I just began to like Carnivorous plants, I ordered > a Darlingtonia Californica from you for $6.95 (I was stupid to buy from > you). It arrived with only 1 wilted pitcher. I was fuckin' mad. From > that day on, I never told anyone about your list and I even have my own > homepage that tells CP hobbyists to not buy from a rip-off bullshit > operated couple. (MIND MY LANGUAGE, when I get mad) > > Here are some sites that your FUCKIN' employees and you 2 should check > out! > > www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/pp.html (YOU BETTER CHECK THIS PAGE OUT) > > -After I read it, I thought, it's a black-hearted couple that's trying > to gyp customers. OTHER WEBSITES DON'T EVEN HAVE YOU GUYS LISTED!!!!! > > Here is what some unhappy customers said on that page: > -One guy stated that Peter wanted a buyer to "MASS RAPE" the land since > he was going to the native Sarracenia habitat and buy them for a lousy. > .50 each! > -He gets "suckers" to pick plants for him from the wild! > -One guy ordered a PRICEY Rafflesiana, but it turned out to be a hybrid > that only a "mother could love!" > -One guy ordered a bushel of live sphagnum moss and they said it would > be sent out tomorrow. They said, "NO PROBLEM" The person was only 200km > from PETER PAUL'S, so postage should be quick. 2 WEEKS later and STILL > haven't received moss. After 2 whole months, it arrives with bugs, > stick, and berries. ....once bitten, twice shy.... > -Many bad stories about this guy (Jam, and Pat) > -MANY PEOPLE SUGGEST NOT TO BUY FROM HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > -Your a crook. > -Everyone else, please tell friends and family members to not buy from > this guy. He's no good. Don't believe me? Check out the site yourself. > > From: > A fuck of a guy I myself have 13 species of NEPENTHES NOT BOUGHT FROM YOU!!!! ################### From: "Neal Nagata" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:15:54 PST Subject: Live Sphagnum Moss - Purchase of hiya all, I am looking to purchase some live sphagnum moss for my cp this season. the only place i know that i can get it is, Peter Pauls Nurseries.. The price is rather steep and after shipping it is not worth it. Does anyone know of any other suppliers? or does anyone have any moss they can sell? Also I have lost my addresses for: Lee's botanical Gardens and orgel's orchids Does anyone have these addresses? okay that's it Thanks in advance, Neal Nagata, Jr. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:16:32 +0100 Subject: I'm looking for Heliamphora's pollen Hi all, my Heliamphora heterodoxa will be blooming at first. I'm looking for fresh pollen from arbitrary Heliamphora species for my H.heterodoxa. As soon as my H.heterodoxa will bloom, I can send pollen on request. How long is Heliamphora's pollen live? Thank you. Jan Jan FLISEK Roznovska 342 Frenstat p.R. CZ-744 01 Czech republic ################### From: prion@abdn.ac.uk (Prion Gwyn) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:10:51 -0800 Subject: Cambrian Carnivores To all who are concerned, I am reliably informed that Peter Cole, owner of Cambrian Carnivores has been in hospital of late and is recovering from illness. It would be resonable to expect therefore that his orders are not of prime concern, more like keeping his collection afloat... Give the guy a break for now especially if you have been happy with his plants and service in the past. Could anyone direct me to a list of CP nurseries in the UK, mine is rather dated. And could 'Volvo 850R' bloke remember that although his comments concerning plants and supplies bought from a well known plantsman MAY well be justified. There are young kids about and there is no need to get yourself barred over some overheated 'comments'. All the best and good growing Prion Gwyn Aberdeen Scotland UK ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:16:43 -0000 Subject: sarracenia nursery - the whereabouts of.. hi there, does anybody know where sarracenia nursery is in the U.K situated around Mill Hill and Burnt Oak? if so could you please write to me as I need their address or telephone or fax. Thankyou Ernest ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:01:22 GMT Subject: Re: Gemmae free >We could use to expand our school collection in this area. Sorry for sending this to list. Wrong button! Jim James Aldridge, Ph.D. - jaldr@onramp.net OR jaldr@fwcds.pvt.tenet.edu =46ort Worth Country Day School =46ort Worth, TX USA ################### From: jaldr@onramp.net (James Aldridge) Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:05:00 GMT Subject: Re: MAD CUSTOMERS > Here are some sites that your ****IN' employees and you 2 should check This language is inappropriate *everywhere*. Please omit it from = messages. James Aldridge, Ph.D. - jaldr@onramp.net OR jaldr@fwcds.pvt.tenet.edu =46ort Worth Country Day School =46ort Worth, TX USA ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:30:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Live Sphagnum Moss - Purchase of Neal, I sell live sphagnum moss. If interested, contact me privately. Thanks, Charles Brewer I am looking to purchase some live sphagnum moss for my cp this season. the only place i know that i can get it is, Peter Pauls Nurseries.. The price is rather steep and after shipping it is not worth it. Does anyone know of any other suppliers? or does anyone have any moss they can sell? Also I have lost my addresses for: Lee's botanical Gardens and orgel's orchids Does anyone have these addresses? ################### From: -Tom- Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:09:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Sarracenia growth habits in the wild Zachary, >For those of you that have seen Sarracenia growing in the wild[Carl, >Tom, Dave, Peter, etc.], can you tell me how often their roots penetrate >down into the waterline? >From my personal experience, I would say that the best plants always seem to be the ones with wet feet. Carl Mazur mentioned S. minor growing in very dry areas. This is true, but if you think about it, the best S. minor are the ones in the Okefenokee where they.....drum rolll.... Float over water! The ones outside the swamp survive while the wet ones thrive. >growth. I now longer have the free time to continue with this >practice. I also can't afford to leave town for any length of time. Sort of makes you feel like a parent, doesn't it? >Before embarking on this endevour, I need to get some kind of idea >how much extra benefit Sarracenias get having their roots >reach into the waterline in hot dryish weather as opposed to growing >in just moist to wet conditions in similar circumstances. I also The plants really love the root room. In two years your plants will look better than you have ever seen them! >could use input on how well peat/perlite mixes wick up water. [There >might be a foot to a foot and a half of peat/perlite mix between the >waterline and the surface of the watering trough. Might the bottom of >the media be sopping wet while the top is bone dry?] Dave & I skip the pearlite in our bogs and NEVER have a problem with the top drying out. We have about 60% peat and 40% sand. The water just wicks throughout the peat and you shouldn't have a problem. You might want to drill several holes an inch or so below the surface to help keep the crows above the water table, in case you have a lot of rain. >Then be prepared to spend all your time weeding out all the grass, >dandelions, oak tree sprouts, etc. etc. that find their way into your >pristine bog. You don't get out of any of the work, the tasks just >change! This definitely becomes a problem..... but I would much rather weed a bog once in a while, as compared to watering all your trays, every day :) To see a photo of one of the bogs, please visit my web page and look at the section on how I grow my plants. Take care & keep on growing, Thomas K. Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS dangerous_plants@hotmail.com tkhayes@mail.microserve.net http://www.infinicom.com/~thayes ################### From: j sullivan Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:15:46 -0800 Subject: Greetings, questions and comment Hello all! Just subscribed, so this is my first posting. I've been interested in cps for many years and have a modest corner of my library devoted to the subject (5 volumes on cps, many more of plant biochemistry, classification, etc.). I live in NJ and am very involved with the cactus & succulent hobby at the moment and plan to erect a greenhouse this spring. I think this would be a great chance to study cp biology. I am a chemist and have always been interested in the interelationship between between chemicals and living things, as in chemical communications between species. Not being current on the cp literature, could anyone comment on the presence (or lack) of chemical attractants in cps, such as aromatic plant volatiles, nectars, etc.? Lit. references would be appreciated, if available. I'm also curious about the apparently ongoing debate concerning the taxonomic and nomenclaturial implications of anthocyanin + and - forms of the same plant. Isn't this sort of thing usually considered a sport or result of inbreeding resulting in an apparently stable but inducable genetic trait? The biosynthesis of the anthocyanins is catalyzed by only a few enzymes (and hence a few genes, perhaps under the overall control of a single gene). Anthocyanin production can also be affected by environmental factors by as much as 50% (see Ref. p. 382). It has been demonstrated that anthocyanins can be produced in tissue culture, another field of interest of mine. I would be interested in learning of references where these non-pigmented plants have been studied in tissue culture under more controlled conditions than they might get in the field. Quoting the reference (p. 387), "One of the most striking examples is the is Machaeranthera gracilis, which produces relatively large amounts (usually 3% dry weight) of the 3-glucoside and 3-rutinoside of cyanidin in cultured cells. It is remarkable that the plant from which these cultures are derived shows no signs of anthocyanine colour in normal growth." REF: Encyclopedia of Plant Physiology, New Series, vol. 8, "Secondary Plant Products," ed. Bell & Chartwood (Springer 1980) I would also like to hear from cp enthusiasts in the NYC-Phila. metroplex area. (I live midway between the two). Jack ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:29:54 -0500 Subject: Re: MAD CUSTOMERS Volva 850R, Although you may be MAD over your resent purchase from Peter Paul Nursery, Please direct your filthy comments directly to him. This is a family channel which does not care to read such trash. You have the right not to purchase plants from his nursery, I suggest you exercise this given right. In closing, I suggest you be very careful on what you are accusing Peter of doing. Be it true or false, your comments could easily come back and hunt you financially. Just a friendly suggestion I am a young, 15 year old carnivorous plant (mainly Nepenthes) enthusiast. I get my friends and relatives into buying and liking this wonderful hobby, but I NEVER show them your useless, rip-off, list! ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:45:08 +0100 Subject: Re: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature > The rules (International Code of Botanical Nomenclature) apply only > ....... > (any newly described taxon must have > a clearly stated rank). > Thank you for your explanation. > There are some people (incl. myself) who think that a taxon at > whatever rank must have some evolutionary meaning (i.e. represent an > adaptation to environmental factors). In a complicated biosynthesis > ... > So you are not in favour of the name "S. purpurea purpurea f. heterophylla" neither, unless of course the lack of anthocyanin would give this plant a certain benefit. I did notice with Dionaea that greener plants grow bigger than the redder ones. Kind regards Wim ################### From: dalford@norfolk.infi.net Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:28:33 -0500 Subject: Styrofoam peanuts Hello all I have been lurking in the background of this group for about a year now. Until now I didn't think I had anything to contribute to the group. As a long time orchid grower and somewhat of a newbie to the cp's I have just sat back and learned from the more experienced and knowledgeable among you. But now I would like to add my 2cents worth on the styro peanut issue from first hand experience. About 4 years ago I came into a large quantity of what I call figure 8 peanuts they have two holes through them and they are 'GREEN'. I gleefully used these in the place of the white ones I had been using to crock the bottoms of all of my orchid pots for increased drainage (as well as reducing the amount of potting media required). In the past the roots kept right on growing right on thru the peanuts with no ill effects. After about 6 months some of the plants started to look sickly but with 1500 or so orchids without pulling tags it was impossible to tell when they were potted. After a while they not only looked sick they were DEAD. Well you always loose a few plants but these were mature,robust, previously blooming plants, something was wrong here! Finally got around to knocking some of them out of their pots and sure enough there were those *&^%$#&*)) figure 8 peanuts. Then I remembered a guest lecture George Marcopolis from California Orchid Conservation Project had given to our society and he also had a one line comment on the toxicity of 'Green' peanuts. I immediately checked the tags in all of the pots and knocked the ones potted in that time period out of their pots and sure enough if they weren't dead they were in bad shape. This stuff even leaches out with each watering and seriously damaged plants in baskets of fir bark only (no peanuts)that were situated below the pots containing figure 8's. Some recovered - most did not. My loss and the passing on of the information prevented an entire orchid society from re potting at a re potting party with the deadly figure 8's. I was not aware of the cause other than type of styrofoam used to make the green ones, but have also stayed away from the pink ones that are treated with an anti static compound. Never had any trouble with any shape of the white peanuts 'S' '7' 'chip' or 'mini S'. ################### From: Ron Schlosser Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:45:07 -0800 Subject: Re: Sarracenia growth habits in the wild On 11-Jan-98, Zachary Kaufman wrote: >Hi. >For those of you that have seen Sarracenia growing in the wild[Carl, >Tom, Dave, Peter, etc.], can you tell me how often their roots penetrate >down into the waterline? >I am looking at using a Rubbermaid 150 gallon plastic livestock >watering trough as a giant pot/bog. The watering trough is oval at >the top roughly 5 feet by 3 feet by 2 feet deep. Currently I grow all >my Sarracenias in pots sitting in standing water. They have >flourished under these conditions despite our low [as compared to >their native habitat] humidity in the summer. I am concerned that if >I transplant the Sarracenia into the watering trough, I will not be >able to safely raise the waterline to the plants's roots. [Having >a foot or more of peat constantly submerged underwater would lead to >anaerobic conditions.] As it stands now, in the summer the waterline >drops substantially during the course of a day on the Sarracenia pots. >By the evening most of the potting media is getting oxygen. This >sharp daily waterline fluctuation would not occur with the watering >trough setup I envision. The volume of water stored is just too >great. Zach, I am using a Rubbermaid 150 gallon stock tank to grow my Darlingtonias in since this spring. I buried the whole thing in the ground intending that the surrounding soil act as an insulator. I took the advice found in the CP books I have and put a "small" 1/2 inch hole in the drain plug. To keep the hole from being plugged by the media, I hot glued a piece of filter fabric over the larger hole on the inside and another over the smaller hole in the plug. I filled the container with a mix of Manatoba coarse peat moss and pumice at about a 4 to 1 ration peat/pumice. The mix stays damp quite a long time and still has drainage, there is about a 2" deep area at the bottom of the tank that never drains. The peat does tend to shrink and pull away from the sides of the container, but that can be filled in. I might try one using coconut coir in place of the peat, same water holding and wicking properties with out as much shrinkage. I also have several large 45 gallon pots also set into the ground with small holes in the bottom for drainage. These I've had "planted" for several years now and the plants winter over just fine. I live in Oregon and our humidity is not high here eather. When I have had to move the plants because they are filling the containers, the root system is quite extensive and penitrates almost all the way down. >Thanks a lot, >--Zachary-- >e-mail: zkaufman@hotmail.com >P.S. The watering trough is designed to sit entirely above ground. > It would basically be a massive pot. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:00:56 PST Subject: peat moss fuzz and slime Hi list. Although the label on the packages claimed the stuff was heat-sterilized to kill weeds etc, the last batch of sphagnum peat I bought (from Frank's) has grown green fuzzy stuff and a few weeds as well. Anybody know what this green stuff is or more importantly how to get rid of it? I'm worried that it will effect seed germination. Anyone have any suggestion as to which U.S. brands of peat are "cleaner" or better for CP culture? Mail-order preferred. As if this wasn't bad enough, the dried sphagnum moss I also bought at Frank's quickly grew white hairy stuff... My guess is that both of these unwanted guests are mold. Anyone else dissatisfied with Frank's products? Please email me if you know of a good mail-order source for high quality dried sphagnum and peat! Thanks in advance. Matt PS. To all those who have requested seed, I'm now in the process of dividing it all up and it's taking a lot longer than I had anticipated. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:31:56 PST Subject: Wanted Hello again. I'm looking for seed or small, pest-free plants of S.American Drosera (particularly D.chrysolepis, villosa, montana, graminifolia, meristocaulis, roraimae, etc), D.neocaledonica, D.petiolaris family, falconeri and smaller Heliamphora spp. or hybrids. Please email me privately if you've got any extras. Thanks in advance! Matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:57:00 +0100 Subject: Re: Greetings, questions and comment Dear Jack Welcome to the CP list. > ... I think this would be a great chance to study cp biology. > I hope you will share your questions, thoughts and results with the list. > I am a chemist and have always been interested in the interelationship > > between between chemicals and living things, as in chemical > communications between species. I am (was) a chemist too, but have never practised it (I studied further to become computer scientist). When I subscribed to this list one year ago, someone (hi Niels) asked for a way to convert tap water into nutrition free water. As you will know, as a general rule, CP's are best watered with rain water (or distilled or Reverse Osmosis (RO) water). I know that oxalic acid is used to precipitate chalk. I've been trying to calculate the optimal pH of the solution with the least amount of chalk, but the knowledge I need is lost a long time ago. I found out that if one keeps adding oxalic acid to a solution, the solubility increases after a certain point. Can you (or any other active chemist on this list) help ? Kind regards Wim ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:19:31 Subject: Re: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature Dear Wim, > So you are not in favour of the name "S. purpurea purpurea f. > heterophylla" neither, unless of course the lack of anthocyanin would > give this plant a certain benefit. I did notice with Dionaea that > greener plants grow bigger than the redder ones. _S. p. heterophylla_ does apparently have a range that is partially independent from (but still within the total range of) the typical form. If it was a mere colour mutant, I would not accept it as a taxon. Kind regards Jan ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:20:34 EST Subject: Re: Foul language on the listserve..... Hey!! Bri here.....Boy, am i glad my little boy wasn't reading the list with me!!!Firstly,i think everyone with a problem should direct it to the person defacto...Secondly, young cp'ers with that attittude should stick to Beanie Babies and G.I. Joes..Much less troublesome,and no waiting required!!! Bri ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:25:48 EST Subject: Re: CP Wanted! Hello Gang!! Bri from Fl. here.....I'm wanting to increase my collection a bit...anyone got any cp for sale{not the D.capensis category of plants!!} You know, the good rare stuff!! Let me know!, Brian ################### From: Ignacio Rojo Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:50:34 +0200 Subject: South America cp growers. Estimados amigos: Me llamo Ignacio Rojo Herguedas y trabajo en el Departamento de Microbiologia III de la Facultad de Biologia en la Universidad Complutense de Madrid, Espa=F1a. Desde hace ya algun tiempo estoy realizando un estudio comparativo de los liquidos digestivos de la planta carnivora Sarrracenia purpurea. Se trata de una investigacion, llamemosla internacional, puesto que han sido muchos los "cultivadores" de plantas carnivoras, de Europa, Norte America y Australia, los que han contribuido, enviandome muestras de los liquidos digestivos de sus plantas para completar mis estudios. Es por esto que me dirijo a vosotros por si alguno esta interesado en contribuir en este estudio. Por ahora se han encontrado "cosas" muy curiosas que, como supongo que entendereis, es pronto para desvelar. De todas formas, en breve, sabremos mucho mas sobre los procesos digestivos de la Sarracenia purpurea. Creo que vuestra cooperacion puede ser de gran ayuda. Si estais enteresados, poneos en contacto en mi e-mail. Os mandare todos los detalles para recoger las muestras y el material necesario. Sin mas y agradeciendos vuestra colaboracion de antemano, me despido deseando lo mejor para el a=F1o 1998. Un saludo. Ignacio Rojo Herguedas Dpt. Microbiologia III Fac. Biologia. U.C.M 28040 Madrid.Espa=F1a. =20 e-mail: rojohi@eucmax.sim.ucm.es =20 ################### From: Lilian M C E Bueno Ladeira Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:38:06 -0200 (EDT) Subject: Drosera burmanii Hi people, I'd like to know where this species is originally found. We have a science project in Brazil using some carnivorous plants. We have another question: what the carnivorous plants absorb from prey - minerals or macro molecules. thanks for that, Lilian ................................. Lilian Escobar Bueno Ladeira . Escola do Futuro - USP . Grupo de Ciencias Via Telematica. tel: (55 011) 818-4928/6325/6326. Sao Paulo - SP - Brasil . e-mail: ladeira@usp.br . ................................. ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:12:30 +0800 Subject: Homepage updated...more pix... Hi all, Just a small message to tell you that my homepage has been updated with the description of D. oblanceolata. Any comments welcome regarding the page or the botanical vocabulary which, I'm afraid is not always very accurate... Bye. Gilles ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:47:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Madagascariensis Cultivation Hello, Has anyone been able to grow N. madagascariensis to a decent size, say beyond the "baby plant" stage? And, has anyone been able to do this with the TC clone that's being sold far-and-wide in garden shops (in the US)? Is this clone slow, or is N. madagascariensis a particularly slow grower in general? For those who have been successful with N. madagascariensis, what sort of growing conditions does it enjoy, e.g. soil, light, temperature... ? Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: Necropsy69 Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:51:55 EST Subject: Re: MAD CUSTOMERS >I myself have 13 species of NEPENTHES NOT BOUGHT FROM YOU!!!! >Your a crook. >Everyone else, please tell friends and family members to not buy from >this guy. He's no good. Don't believe me? Check out the site yourself. Hey, did I miss out on somethin' here? Who didn't you buy 13 species of neps from? Peter Paul's? When did this topic come up? Who's the crook? Please fill me in. Bye for now Behrad ################### From: Joe Cumbee Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:16:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Madagascariensis Cultivation Perry, I have several N. madagascariensis from a chain store and some tc plants from AgriStartsII that I purchased last spring that are growing just fine. I have mainly neglected them and have not even removed many of them from the original pots. The plants are mostly 12 inches or higher, leaves are healthy. The only problem is that none of them has set a pitcher. The N. gracillis that were purchased at the same time have pitchers galore. One of my sons is doing a science fair project using an anti stress agent to see if it helps in pitcher formation. To early for any results just yet. Joe Perry Malouf wrote: > Hello, > > Has anyone been able to grow N. madagascariensis to a decent > size, say beyond the "baby plant" stage? And, has anyone > been able to do this with the TC clone that's being sold > far-and-wide in garden shops (in the US)? Is this clone > slow, or is N. madagascariensis a particularly slow grower > in general? > > For those who have been successful with N. madagascariensis, > what sort of growing conditions does it enjoy, e.g. soil, > light, temperature... ? > > Regards, > > Perry Malouf ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:18:25 +0800 Subject: OOoops, forgot to give the address... So the address is http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.htm Gilles LARDY ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 20:46 EST Subject: Re: Re: Madagascariensis Cultivation Dear Joe, > The plants are mostly 12 inches or higher, leaves are healthy. > The only problem is that none of them has set a pitcher. The N. > gracillis that were purchased at the same time have pitchers > galore. One of my sons is doing a science fair project using an > anti stress agent to see if it helps in pitcher formation. To > early for any results just yet. What is the anti-stress agent? Do you know how it works? I was wondering if you're game for trying some SuperThrive on your pitcher-less N.madacascarensis? Peter Damato (sp?) of CA Carnivores reported that his pitcher-less N.rajah started grower pitchers after he started using SuperThrive on it... Oh, it could just be too cool for them too. (you never know) Dave Evans ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:24:06 GMT Subject: VFT's Responding Well?!?! =) Greetings again! Since I've just joined this discussion group and have thoroughly = enjoyed over 2 weeks of messages now, I wanted to post a question or two and = maybe an observation about the 9 VFT's I've taken under my wing and hopefully nurtured over the past 2-3 weeks... To start things off I basically have a generic setup so far with only a= 5 1/2 gallon aquarium with a glass lid that keeps the heat and humidity = up... Added to this setup is a reptile 'Under Tank' heating pad that keeps the temps around 86 F (daytime) high 60's F (evening) which has seemed to = work quite well... I"ve been growing some regular tropical's so I have the = basic setup with timer (photo period 16 hours), and check's & measures... All seems fine and I've noticed one really neat aspect of these new plants...= =20 At first potting (sphagnum) most plants reacted a little funny with some traps going black and leaves turning yellow... But after a few weeks I've noticed a new leaf poking it's way upward almost daily... All leaves are nice and bright green and the traps are lovely... But the other day I noticed something quite remarkable... Well I wouldn't say it's all that remarkable but rather the first time I've seen such reaction in a plant form... About 4 days ago I found some nice small insects under a log and promptly allowed 3 of the plants to feast while the others I let go... = Over the past few days I've noticed that the plants I've given insects to have shot out new leaves faster and more robust than the plants I didn't = feed... At feeding time 2 plants of similar size had started putting out a new leaf... After about 2-4 days the one plant that did get fed had grown = this new leaf nearly twice as fast as the one that did not feed... WoW!.. = This really made me grin with delight!... Just wondering if anyone (I'm sure = you have) has noticed this or even done a study on the effects of outside nutrients (insects) play on the speed a plant develops/lives...=20 Well this is getting drawn out and boring and I applaud those still reading! I'm now searching for more plants of different species to start growing!.. Thanks so much for listening and for having such a form.. without great discussion groups as these us newbies would never learn!... Kudos to all!!!! Thanks! ... Richard Berg * . . . * .. * . . . * =20 . . . * * . . .=20 * * * . * * * *=20 * // . * * . * .* . =20 // ___o |=3D// Richard Berg \ \/ //|\ / / | \ =20 ` ` ' ' =20 ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:04:18 -0500 Subject: N. madgascariensis cultivation In CP digest 1327 Perry Malouf wrote: ... ?Has anyone been able to grow N. madagascariensis to a decent size, say beyond the "baby plant" stage? And, has anyone been able to do this with the TC clone that's being sold far-and-wide in garden shops (in the US)? Is this clone slow, or is N. madagascariensis a particularly slow grower in general? All the madagascariensis plants that I have were were from tissue culture. In the first few months of cultivation I noticed very little growth. These were from plants no more than 6" across and 6" high. I began watering them using a very dilute (3 drops a gallon) solution of rain water and the snake oil SuperThrive. Still no immediate results. This species seems to be a slow grower both from my experience and talk with other growers. I keep the pots inside a 50 gallon aquarium tank under high intensity flourescents for 14 hours a day. The medium consists of pink bark chips, chopped osmunda fiber, long-fibered sphagnum, hort. charcoal, peat, large grained silica sand, and orchid bark. The humidity hovers around 80-90% and the temperatures vary from 65-74f. In the last three months all the plants have produced larger 1 to almost 2 inch cherry red pitchers. The tendrils connecting the pitchers to the leaves are also starting to elongate. This species has always been a sticky wicket with me, behaving differently than my other neps. I guess you should try to establish conditions that are intermediate between high and lowlanders and just wait! D. adelae taking over, Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio (15f and cloudy) markp@crscms.com ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:42:18 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Madagascariensis Cultivation Perry Malouf wrote: > Hello, > > Has anyone been able to grow N. madagascariensis to a decent > size, say beyond the "baby plant" stage? And, has anyone > been able to do this with the TC clone that's being sold > far-and-wide in garden shops (in the US)? Is this clone > slow, or is N. madagascariensis a particularly slow grower > in general? I guess I will throw in my 2 cents worth for what it' worth. I'm like Joe, I purchased several plants from a local HQ store. I immediately repotted them up using a mixture of peat/perlite/sand/bark/burnt pine straw. I kind of just threw a few handfuls of each in a bucket mixed it together. I re potted all plants and put them in the greenhouse sitting in a little water. They seem to do just fine until cold weather set in, then the plants started to show sighs of stress so I transferred them to a aquarium inside the house. I keep a light on them 24 hours a day and the room that they are in will cool down at night to about 68 degrees and rise to 75 degrees during the day. Inside the aquarium the temps will drop to about 70 degrees and raise to about 80 degrees during the day. I clipped the growing spike off, not to force it bush out, but because it turned brown when it was in the greenhouse. Now, I have a bunch of pitchers popping out all over. I don't know if it was due to the change of weather(greenhouse to house) or the removal of the center stalk. All I know is the darn thing is a very slow grower, but has produced pitchers. Even the new side growth has a small pitcher on them. One last thing, I did give a a misting on mild orchid fertilizer. I believe it was 1/4 strength and they are still sitting in a small amount of water. I hope this helps. Charles Brewer > ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:44:34 -0000 Subject: UK Darlingtonia Pest/E-mail Problems (off-topic)/Lovely Windows (off-topic) After the recent storms subsided, I decided it was time to harvest this year's crop of Darlingtonia seed. To my disgust, I found that every flower had been 'glued' into a ball, the innards eaten away, and the shed skin of a winged beastie was on the outside where the culprit had emerged and flown away. Is there such a thing as a Darlingtonia sawfly? Does this happen in the wild, or is it purely a European pest taking advantage of a new opportunity? We are having e-mail problems again - I am assured by our mail administrator the the problems are at the demon end, and everything sent to me should get here eventually. If I owe anyone an e-mail, please be patient. At a cactus society meeting yesterday, I heard someone say 'lovely windows'. I hunted for the culprit, prepared to inflict grievous bodily harm on the Microsoft stooge, but found someone examining a rather nice Lithops. (I am assured by a Botanical Greek expert that Lithops is the singular). Good Growing, NigelH ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:46:21 EST Subject: So ya'll want some sphagnum,huh?? Hello all! Brian here....I've been noticing that alot of you guys have been searching for live sphagnum..Well,your old friendly neighborhood cp dealer here has some.....It's not on my pricelist because i tried it one year and no one bought any,so i didn't waste the time to print it..I don't really know what it goes for these days,and i want to be fair about my prices,so if anyones interested in some,email me and also tell me the going price per bag,etc...Nice pure Florida sphag !!!! Let me know........Trimming my D. capensis hedges,Bri :) ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:09:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Joe Harden This message is for Joe Harden, I have tries about 8 times to return a message to you, but it keeps getting bounced back. Yes, I still have sphagnum for sale. I sell it for $10.00 per bag(12 x 12") which includes shipping. Money order please. Address is as follows: Charles Brewer 2413 Farmers Court Va. Beach, Va. 23456 Phone(757) 430-2786 ################### From: Lance Jerale Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:31:04 +0000 Subject: Re: Nepenthes madagascariensis Having killed several tc N. madagascariensis "babies", I hereby join the ranks of those unable to grow this species. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Some of them lasted as long as a year or so with little or no growth, some even tried to send out tiny branches or side growth-- but these never got much past the bud stage, then the plants turned black and died like the rest. I wonder-- would a fungicide help us out here? Is a virus plaguing us? We can't all be guilty of cultural abuse, can we? Most of my other Neps do just fine. I've tried warm, cool, and in between with madagascariensis. No luck. If anyone out there KNOWS why so many of us can't grow this species, please clue us in. Thanks in advance, Lance -- ---------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- Lance F. Jerale 414-775-9520 voice 414-775-9509 fax ljerale@valders.k12.wi.us Valders Middle School 201 West Wilson Street Valders WI 54245 ################### From: BillSherren Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:03:23 -0000 Subject: CPs for sale Hi everyone, I am preparing my 1998 list of Carnivorous plants for sale shortly. If = you would like a copy, just drop me your address via e-mail or write to = the address at the end of this letter. I am currently only supplying = plants to UK & EEC customers. I hope to cover further afield later on. Happy & Successful growing... Bill Sherren's Carnivorous Plants. 63 Cross Road Walmer Kent CT14 9LA England ################### From: "Alessandro Delfrate" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:55:29 +0100 Subject: P. gypsicola is hard to die Hi list I have two considerations: 1) first of all my compliments for the December issue of CPN. Full of interesting informations and valuable contributions. Every time I read a CPN I always wandering about the high quality of the contributions and the selection of the various articles that makes the reading a really fantastic experience. Thanks to all! 2) Plants want to live, and only our actions contribute to their death. This spring I had a nice plantlet from a winter leaf of P. gypsicola. When the plant was 1 cm of diameter, due to unknown reasons suddenly rotted. I carefully placed the only leaf I could save from the disaster, (about 1 cm length) in live sphagnum under artificial lights, 14 our photoperiod and about 25 - 30 \260C temperature. After 4 weeks from the single leaf I obtained n\260 5 nice plantlets, that now are growing in my small greenhouse. A question for the experts: my adult P. gypsicola are now in with the winter bud ( bone dry conditionsof the substrate) , while the five small plants (same greenhouse conditions of the adult plants) are slowly growing without the formation of the winter bud (wet conditions). It is normal that small plants do not develop the winter buds? Another note: I placed 5 winter leafs from my adult plants in live sphagnum, 10 hours photoperiod, 5 - 10 \260C (here in Italy is winter time) and I obtained 4 plantlets. This is a lucky winter for me!! Regards Alessandro Delfrate (alex.gizmo@iol.it) ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:18:57 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Nepenthes madagascariensis I wonder-- would a fungicide help us out here? Is a virus plaguing us? We can't all be guilty of cultural abuse, can we? Most of my other Neps do just fine. I've tried warm, cool, and in between with madagascariensis. No luck. If anyone out there KNOWS why so many of us can't grow this species, please clue us in. Thanks in advance, Lance Good question Lance, I guess I should mention that I did spray my plants with a fungicide before bringing them in the house. I can't say that this helped them or not, but I can say that they seem to be growing nicely, but slow. I would say, fungicide can't hurt if applied correctly. Charles Brewer -- ################### From: Bassnik Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:26:08 EST Subject: Hello Dear CP growers I am ready. I am ready to start growing my first carnivorous plants. Terrarium is getting done.(good idea right????) A good person by the name of Ross told me to grow Drosera capensis. I am very excited. Where should I start? Can anyone tell me where to get the seeds. Hopefully soon, I can by a carnvorous plant grower myself....just like all you good people out there. Sam ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:45:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Hello Hello Sam, If you are a member of the ICPS (International Carnivorous Plant Society), you can purchase seeds from the ICPU seedbank. Check a recent issue of the CPN (Carnivorous Plant Newsletter) for a seedbank list. Otherwise, it depends on where you live. Are you in the USA? If so, look for one of the home improvement superstores. They carry some CPs at certain times of the year. Also check this maillist for other members who have seed or plants for sale. - Carl On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Bassnik wrote: > Dear CP growers > > I am ready. I am ready to start growing my first carnivorous > plants. > Terrarium is getting done.(good idea right????) A good person by the > name of Ross told me to grow Drosera capensis. I am very excited. > Where should I start? Can anyone tell me where to get the seeds. > Hopefully soon, I can by a carnvorous plant grower myself....just like > all you good people out there. > > Sam > ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:07:34 -0700 Subject: Nep project still alive Wee Kiat, I am so sorry that it has been so long since I have emailed/spoke to you. I emailed you to thank you for sending out the Nature Malaysiana article when I got it, but the email was returned after 10 days of not getting through. Let's hope this one gets through. First off, thanks again for sending the magazine to me. Your pictures in it are great! Speaking of pictures, I just got my copy of Clarke's book in the mail today. The picture of N. gracilis x N. mirabilis (=N. neglecta) on page 159 looks a lot like Nrg to me. What do you think? Overall, the book is incredibly beautiful, but there is not as much new science in it as I thought there might be. While progress on my project has gone a lot slower than I had hoped (it feels like time has gone faster), the project is still alive and kicking. I have analyzed much of my data from the first trip (including sorting out all the prey I collected from the pitchers). Much of the data is quite encouraging. For various reasons, the isozyme work got put off and off until now. I am currently running the gels full time now and just starting to get results. Its not as easy as just following a recipe, unfortunately. Nepenthes appears to have a lot of "gunk" in it and several enzyme systems aren't working with best guess buffer systems. It is taking a lot of trial and error to find buffers and enzyme systems that will work. Its a little frustrating, but I will get it to work. I know it must be frustrating to you that it has taken me so long to get this part going. I apologize and hope that it is some comfort that we will know soon as to the "true" identity of Nrg. The big news is that my family and I are coming out to Singapore for the final push to get this project done. I have prepared a detailed proposal for what I will be doing while I am out there which has been approved by my committee. I am very excited about the work and I can't wait to get out into the field again. I have limited the scope of my project to just the three Singapore species and their hybrids, that is, I gave up all pretenses of expanding the project to the Borneo or Northern Peninsular Malaysian species. I still have plenty to do! We plan on coming out the last week of February and will probably stay for about 6 months. I have a big grant propsal in to NSF, but I won't here if it gets funded until March or later (it takes them six months to decide). We have our fingers crossed, but even if we don't get it, we'll have to get the project finished anyway. I am hoping that coming at the end of February will get me there just when plants are beginning to flower. Any feelings about this? If I understand it correctly, the weather has been pretty wierd this year for you. I hope El Nino hasn't screwed up the Nepenthes too much. Anyway, I look forward to talking Nepenthes with you in person soon. Give my best to Mr. Wong. Sincerely, Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 (505) 277-0683 Fax: (505) 277-3781 Homepage: http://redtail.unm.edu/ ################### From: dave evans Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 19:54 EST Subject: Re: Re: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature > So you are not in favour of the name "S. purpurea purpurea f. > heterophylla" neither, unless of course the lack of anthocyanin would > give this plant a certain benefit. I did notice with Dionaea that > greener plants grow bigger than the redder ones. Dear Wim, The largest VFT I have seen was an all-red clone. With VFT the conditions play a very large role in what the plants will look like. This is true of most CP's, BTW. I have noticed that redder plants do better than their greener sisters (most plants are at least female) of the same type in areas that receive very bright light. While it's the greener plants which do better in dimmer conditions. Dave Evans ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:13:24 PST Subject: Drosera oblanceolata / D.sp.Borneo Not sure if I got the species name right. I checked out whoever's web page it was with the photos and description of this Drosera oblanceolata and was very impressed. I'd like to know more about this species. When was it discovered? Is it related to D.petiolaris? Has anyone got extra seed or plants of this species? I'd definitely like to try growing it. I would also like to hear from others whove got "D.sp Borneo" = sp.8. Last time I posted this request, I got only 1 response. Surely more of you have this tiny plant! Free seed update: I have finally packed up all the seed I promised people and am ready to send it out (as soon as I can get to the P.O>). Unfortunately, I ran out of seed after trying to fill the first 20+ people's requests so there may be a couple of you who dont receive anything. If youre one of those people, you'll know in a couple weeks max. Email me and I'll try to send you some fresh seed once I've collected some. Happy growing, Matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: L235 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:07:37 EST Subject: Re: N . madagascariensis cultivation Ok, Perry, I can't believe I'm chiming in on this one .... but: I have ONE Nepenthes, a tc N. madascariensis I bought at a garden shop in Atlanta, GA USA. It's doing pretty well for me. About 9-10 inches high, it is pitchering and seems fairly robust. I'm growing it in a 4 inch standard plastic pot, in a terrarium (very high humidity) in pure sphagnum moss. I mist it irregularly with a dilute solution of miracid and Super Thrive and the sphagnum is very damp (pot stands in between one-fourth and one-eighth of an inch of water). I much prefer Sarracenia and Drosera due to very limited growing space, and bought this one because ... I felt sorry for it, and thought I'd give it a try. I've promised it to Tim Topoleski in Baltimore, but otherwise you could have it ... I'm running out of room for the thing. Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) Reston, VA USA ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:43:31 PST Subject: Nepenthes madagascariensis I too have had a lot of difficulty with this plant. Originally, I was growing N. madagascariensis in a long-fiber sphagnum/orchid bark/ perlite/lava rock mix. The plant kept getting bigger and bigger, but at the same time, each new leaf produced was a lighter shade of green. I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I tried it in various environments, but could never seem to please it. Finally, when it was on death's doorstep, I decided to transplant it to new media. It certainly was done for in its current state. When I removed the plant from the pot and began washing away the media I got a heck of a surprise. The base of the stem was not at all what I had expected. It looked as if the madagascariensis had losts its root system, re-rooted and then lost its root system again. I decided to try a different media. I cut into the plant's stem in several places with a knife to aid rooting and potted up, burrying most of the stem in a 50/50 peat/perlite mix. The N. madagascariensis recovered, but seeing that its not in the most ideal of conditions currently [light and humidity starved], its kind of hard to pass any sort of judgement on the growth potential of this plant. I certainly can't account for why its root system would collapse. It wasn't kept overly wet. Is this a common problem with this plant? --Zachary-- ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: CMcdon0923 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:44:27 EST Subject: Re: N. madagascariensis I have five or six plants, all purchased from Home Depot, and according to their original tags, all from TC. I have done basically nothing to them since purchasing them last February. They are still in their original 3" pots. I keep them in about 1/2 inch of distilled water in a 10 gallon aquarium with a hinged lid to provide air circulation. Temperatures range from about 60F at night to into the 90s on a bright day. I have to cover the setup with an opaque cover on really bright days (Texas winters). I'll have to move it to a less sunny window when summer rolls around, or figure out how to really shield the tank. Humidity averages between 70 to 85%. For the first few months after purchase, they just sat there. I then began adding about a cap full of Superthrive to each gallon of their water. About two months later they began developing pitchers, BUT around the same time, I also rearranged them and placed them in a much sunnier location. So, I can't be sure which action may have contributed more to the sudden pitchering. Right now, the plants average about 6 inches in height, and are up to 8" or maybe a little more, in diameter. Every plant has six to eight pitchers in various stages of development/death. The pitchers all show a bright pinkish- red color at the top, changing to a pale yellow-green at the base. Some of the leaves also have some mottled red color. Pitcher size ranges from about 1/2 inch for newer ones, to a few of about 1-1/2 inches. To the best of my knowledge, none of the plants has ever trapped anything. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:22:20 Subject: Re: _Drosera oblanceolata_ Dear Matt, > Not sure if I got the species name right. Yes. > I checked out whoever's web page it was It was Shing Lam's page. > I'd like to know more about this species. You are certainly not the only one on this list who'd like this. > When was it discovered? The type specimen was collected in 1934. It was discovered (as a new species) around 1981. > Is it related to D.petiolaris? Definitely not. Why did you think so? Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Dr W.R. Tribe" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: intro, questions and answer I've been on the list for a couple of weeks now - already a couple of my questions have been answered, so it is already worth joining! I've been growing for a couple of years, and have about 40 species, most of which are doing well, which is hardly a surprise as they are amongst the easiest! I have a couple of questions, but first (hopefully) an answer. I can't remember off-hand who it was, but someone asked about sources of live sphagnum in the UK. I had the same problem, and bought from Marston Exotics in Hereford, which was inconvenient. Certainly, all common garden centres, while claiming they had sphagnum, in fact did not. However, it is curious that virtually every garden centre I've been to in the Newcastle-upon-Tyne region DOES have sphagnum - at least it is visually identical to the stuff I used to buy, and my plants have done well in it. I think this is because most garden centres buy from a national company, whereas there is small company in the North East who supply the local centres, seem to know what they are actually selling, and profess to harvest in a sustainable manner. I have two questions. Firstly, I have started growing pygmy sundews under lights. Can they be grown evergreen, or do they need a dormancy? I have conflicting information here. I want gemmae, but if I can vary the growing conditions to my own schedule this will take the hassle out of it! Secondly, my Darlingtonias set seed this year, but I am unsure of the best approach to raising seedlings. Slack simply recommends the same approach as Sarracenias, and I have had little success tracking down other recommendations. It seems to me that there are a number of obvious questions; i) Is it best to use live sphagnum? ii) Do they require a longer (colder?) stratification than Sarracenias? iii) Since the roots are closer to the surface, and therefore given less insulation from the growing medium, do you have to be more careful to limit the root temperature, than in the mature plants? Perhaps there is a dilemma here - how do the seeds know that the growing season is approaching if the soil temperature remains low - i.e. is germination (after stratification) triggered by increased photoperiod alone? I'd very much appreciate any help anyone can offer. It would be great if someone could send out a comprehensive approach to Darlingtonia seeds, above and beyond the questions above. Cheers Bill Tribe ################### From: "Jens Rotthauwe" Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:27:17 +0100 Subject: Peter Cole / Cambrian Carnivores Hello ! There have been some comments/queries concerning Peter Cole / Cambrian Carnivores on the list lately. I just received the plants I ordered about three months ago ... They were in excellent shape and very carefully packed (the same goes for the plants I got in the past). He wrote that his email is still down. Kind regards Jens ################### From: lim_ivan@jpmorgan.com Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:46:24 -0500 (EST) XSubject: Peter Cole / Cambrian Carnivores >From lim_ivan@jpmorgan.com Fri Jan 16 07:43:37 1998 Received: from nyc_ntgw_n02.ny.jpmorgan.com (nyc_ntgw_n02.ny.jpmorgan.com [198.75.84.103]) by mrszip.ny.jpmorgan.com (8.8.8/8.7.6) with SMTP id HAA14598 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 07:43:36 -0500 (EST) Received: by nyc_ntgw_n02.ny.jpmorgan.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.4 3-18-1997)) id 8525658E.003C55CC ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 05:59:01 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: JPMORGAN@SMTP To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Message-ID: <4825658E.003B5901.00@nyc_ntgw_n02.ny.jpmorgan.com> I must say that I have had similar experience with Richard Berg where the VFT is concerned. They seem to grow much better when I feed them with flies as opposed to when I just leave it up to them to catch their own dinner. With feeding, my plants put out healthier looking leaves & at a better rate too. They also start growing new offshoots as well :). I have been growing VFT & S. purpurea for more than 3 years now in equatorial weather (my plants are in Malaysia, but I work in Singapore. their feeding schedule depends on how often I cross the border to go home). Because of the constantly hot & humid weather, my plants never go into dormancy. Other than that, they seem to do fine except that my VFT has only flowered once, that was when I bought the first plant 3 years back. It has since mulitiplied into abt 5-7 plants (I lost some along the way) but none of them have flowered since. Does anyone have an explanation for this? If there is anyone out there on this list that is from Malaysia or Singapore, I would like to hear from them. And if someone knows David Wong from Canada, please let me know how I can contact him. Thanx!! Happy growing :)!! Ivan ################### From: -Tom- Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:58:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Nepenthes madagascariensis Dear list, > I wonder-- would a fungicide help us out here? Is a virus plaguing us? > We can't all be guilty of cultural abuse, can we? Most of my other Neps do > just fine. I've tried warm, cool, and in between with madagascariensis. No > luck. If anyone out there KNOWS why so many of us can't grow this > species, please clue us in. I was just pondering the beauty of tissue culture...... Hundreds of thousands of plants can be grown from a single seed. Which at first seems like a good idea. But what if a really crummy clone ends up getting picked and is mass produced? Then everyone is trying to grow a really difficult plant. Perhaps this is the case here? Anyone who has grown N. madagascarensis to decent size from seed out there? Or perhaps it is a symbiotic fungal relationship, that we can't establish, due to not having the correct fungi in our locales? Due to the easy spread of spores, I don't know if this is a problem, but who knows? Anyone ever get cuttings and root them from the wild? It would be interesting to hear how plants originating from the wild compare to TC or seed raised plants. Take care & keep on growing, Thomas K. Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS dangerous_plants@hotmail.com tkhayes@mail.microserve.net http://www.infinicom.com/~thayes ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:42:47 PST Subject: _Drosera oblanceolata_ Hi Jan, > I checked out whoever's web page it was >It was Shing Lam's page. Do you have the URL for it? I unfortunately lost it. I did web search on excite and found 1 site with a description of it as well as the other Chinese spp. of Drosera. http://www.herbaria.harvard.edu/china/small_families/droseraceae.htm > Is it related to D.petiolaris? >Definitely not. Why did you think so? Thanks to the low resolution of my monitor, it looked similar to some of the photos ive seen in the past of plants belonging to the petiolaris family. It was just a question, not a statement :) I think I just saw someone on the list offering D.oblanceolata, N.mirabilis and maybe something else to either me (in a response regarding this free seed i'd offered) or to the list in trade for something else. If i wasnt dreaming, could that person please email me? I would love to try growing this plant and would like to hear from anyone growing it. Happy growing, Matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: "Sarver.Cindy V3I" Date: 16 Jan 1998 08:33:45 -0800 Subject: Nep Madagascariensis cultivation All, This may not be relevant, because the plants that I saw in Madagascar are not exactly the same as those that are sold everywhere, but the growing conditions there were actually much different than most people have described for cultivation. The plants that I saw were growing in pure sand. There hadn't been any rainfall for quite a while, and, in fact, they don't get much rain at all in the winter in the southern part of Madagascar. This was near the "spiny forest" area, which is quite desert-like. The humidity was fairly low (50% perhaps? this is a guess). It was winter when I was there, and temperatures went from perhaps the mid-70's F during the day, to mid-50's at night. They received light about 14 hours per day. Summer, of course, would be hot and wet. They appear to flower all year round. The seedlings that I have at home from these plants appear to be appreciating the wide temperature swing that Southern California provides from day to night. Perhaps these plants need changes in environment from winter to summer. I am keeping mine a little drier this winter, and will increase the humidity and watering in the spring and summer. Good growing, -cindy ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:56:22 PST Subject: CP List Response - Is anyone out there? Hi guys, I'm currently on several other internet mailing lists and was wondering why the posts I've made here have gotten such limited response. On the other lists I subscribe to (which have fewer members than this one), a single message will often trigger 20 responses. Where is everybody?! Am I one of the only people on this list who's interested in S.American, African and other unusual Drosera? Anyone have any D.petiolaris or related FS or T? Heliamphoras? Anyone else have D.sp.Borneo? Know about D.oblanceolata? Know what this green fuzz on my new peat moss could be or know how to get rid of it? Know a good source for *high quality* dry sphagnum / peat moss? Please help! Private responses definitely welcome! Thanks in advance and Happy Growing, Matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: Steven Stewart Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:04:44 -0500 Subject: Introduction & _N. madagascariensis_ Hello, I am Steven Stewart in Sanford,Florida,U.S.A.. I have been following this group now for a while, because cp and other unusual plants have taken up a good part of my life for more than 25yrs..I have been working at a private college in central Florida for the past 12 yrs.. I have a small wholesale plant business and a number of Florida native and other unusual plant species from around the world. I have been growing _N. madagascariensis_ for about a year now (thanks Cliff). This Nep. seens to be an exception to the "general" culture of others.I allow this species to become completely dry out between waterings,potted in long-fibered sphagnum rootbound in 1 gallon plastic pots. I soak when dry but keep it too dry for the live sphagnum on the surface to thrive. My plants are about 2 ft. tall with upper pitchers a bright green, 4" in size, and basal pitchers apple red 2". The leaves are dark green with some red tint from direct sunlight. The main problem with this clone is it's lack of resistance to "Black Spot" fungus, which occurs on plants under mist. This is the way I grow this species in central Fl. I hope this information is of some help. Steve Stewart ################### From: Paul Burkhardt Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:09 -0600 (CST) Subject: N. madagascariensis Hi list, I have one tc N. madagascariensis about six inches tall or so, and a bunch of seedlings. All are doing fine. I've found that this species likes it warm and humid, in a damp medium, but not too wet. The pitchers are 1-2 inches, squat and a nice red color throughout. I water it once a week, and the medium is 2:2:1 peat, silica sand, and charcoal. Temperatures around 75-80 F seem optimal. Paul Burkhardt ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:19:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Nep Madagascariensis cultivation Hi Folks, It starting to sound like some of the Madagascariensis growing kinks are beginning to be worked out. Thanks to Cindy Saver and Steven Stewart, both have offered us 'somewhat' similar growing tips and conditions. It appears, from what has been posted recently, that "what" may be considered good growing condition for these plants are: Dryer then normal condition, well drained soil(airy mixture) average to high humidity, warm temperatures, bright light with "some" full sun for color, good air circulation and some preventative fungicide maintenance, on occasions (optional of course). I would think that good air circulation would limited the use of having to use a fungicide. This plant is starting to sound more and more like a good candidate for a house plant. I think I might pick up a few more this weekend and try my luck at turning them into a house plant. The big question now is to figure out which one of my wife's house plants, I call weeds:), I want to dump to make room for a beautiful N. Madagascarienses. In closing, I do not consider these growing tips to be 100% correct. I do expect some challenges, comments and additions, but at least, it seems like we are starting to learn more and more about their growing conditions. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va. ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:26:56 -0700 Subject: Gel Electrophoresis of Nep CPfolk, Has anyone out there tried gel electrophoresis of Nepenthes, Droseraceae, Drosophyllum or know of published references to this? I am doing an isozyme study of N. gracilis, N. ampullaria and N. rafflesiana and their hybrids and am having trouble getting good enzyme/buffer combinations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 (505) 277-0683 Fax: (505) 277-3781 Homepage: http://redtail.unm.edu/ ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:40:02 -0500 Subject: re: German peat moss I am looking for a good source for German peat moss. If you know where I can purchase some in the US or around the East Coast, let me know. Thanks in advance Charles Brewer ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 04:25:51 +0800 Subject: D. OBLANCEOLATA HERE... Hi Matt, Jan, No, you were not dreaming, I have posted the address of my new homepage to list last week (updated a few days ago with clearer pix), and was also proposing some trade on plantlets... http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.htm ################### From: "Ermine!" Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:40:23 -0800 Subject: VFTs, d.capensis flowering Qs, fungus, and more! > From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) > Subject: VFT's Responding Well?!?! =) > At feeding time 2 plants of similar size had started putting out a new > leaf... After about 2-4 days the one plant that did get fed had grown > thiis new leaf nearly twice as fast as the one that did not feed... WoW!.. > This really made me grin with delight!... Just wondering if anyone > (I'm sure you > have) has noticed this or even done a study on the effects of outside > nutrients (insects) play on the speed a plant develops/lives... I haven't done any sort of peer-reviewed study, no. (I've only been into CP for the last few months myself!) But I've definitely seen a difference in fed plants versus non-fed ones. I had a large clump of VFT seedlings I got from Home Depot, and teased all of the intertwinded plants apart. A couple of them I found insects smell enough to feed, but the rest went without until they had larger traps (Or I could find more small bugs.) Within a month, the fed plants were twice the size of the others, and putting out large traps rapidly. After that, I take care to keep my VFTs fed! I also notice the same reaction from S. purpurea and my one Nepenthes. Each of them began growing and pitchering much larger and faster after the first time I fed them. ============================== Now, on a personal note to the rest of you, *I* have some questions. :) First, I've got a d.capensis that's flowering. I know, I know, most of you wonder why I didn't snip the scape so 'that weed' didn't spawn, but I am new to the whole hobby, and really wanted to let it flower. I get seeds this way, too - and that's the question. Right now, all but one of the flowers has opened and closed. how long should I wait before snipping the stalk and bagging it for seeds? Should I wait till the seedpods turn brown or black? Everything is still green yet. Any help would be appreciated. Second question! I've got a fungus among us here.. At least two pots, one with a VFT and one with a newly-potted plant are showing a lot of white, cottony fungus. In the newly potted plant, it looks like the soil itself that's suddenly bloomed into white fuzz. The same sort of thing happens to any insect on my d.adelae - within two days of being ensnared, it looks like a cotton ball from fungus. What is the recommended procedure? I've never used a fungicide or anything of the sort, and don't want to hurt the plants. Help? Thank you! Matt O. ermine@aimnet.com ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 15:43 EST Subject: Re: Drosera madagascariensis var major Dear Robert and Eric, > Robert Gibson here again in Cape Town with some thoughts on the robust, > green madagascariensis-like sundews from Magaliesberg. Could these be > what Burtt Davy described, in 1926, as var major? Eric Green grows some > of these robust plants, which came from the same area as the type > location. I have also seen very similar plants growing under the name of > sp "Botswana". Food for thought. I have been growing D. sp. from Magaliesberg for little over a year and D.nidiformis since the summer. While they have both at least started to flower, I didn't get a good look at the Magaliesberg plants' flower stems or flowers. The D.nidiformis now has a nice spike rising up and I'll be sure to pay closer attention this time. While the two "species" look a lot alike (D.anglica-like growth habit), the D.nidiformis is much more robust and has about twice as many active leaves as the sp. Mag.... Can anyone say if they have also noticed this about their plants, if you have them both? Thanks, Dave Evans P.S. Does sp. Botswana have a stem? ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:09 EST Subject: Re: CP List Response - Is anyone out there? > Hi guys, I'm currently on several other internet mailing lists and was > wondering why the posts I've made here have gotten such limited > response. On the other lists I subscribe to (which have fewer members > than this one), a single message will often trigger 20 responses. Where > is everybody?! Dear Matt, Well, I only have e-mail at my (currently) part-time job so it takes a while for me to respond to e-mails... > Am I one of the only people on this list who's interested in > S.American, African and other unusual Drosera? I sure am! I'm trying to grow as many South African Drosera as I can. > Anyone have any D.petiolaris or related FS or T? > Heliamphoras? Anyone else have D.sp.Borneo? Know about > D.oblanceolata? Know what this green fuzz on my new peat moss > could be or know how to get rid of it? Some people have mentioned that green fuzz can be *prevented* by using pine needle straw, but I'm not sure how much you use or if it's more involved than jut grinding some up and sprinkling it on the surface of your mix or not. Dave E ################### From: AKIRA1688 Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:17:39 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes Hi people, I just receieved a Nepenthes Ampullaria and Nepenthes Ventricosa. Is it possible to put them both together in a tank? What temp to keep at? -Thanks- ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:42:23 GMT Subject: FYI - Gardenweb CP Fourm! Just wanted to inform the subscribers of the list that the excellent web site GardenWeb has just opened a NEW CP forum... All messages/replies are in the form of web-boards and are easily accessible from their fast site!... Many have asked for some time now for a CP forum and now we've gotten it!.. Take a gander over to http://www.gardenweb.com for details.. Enter the 'GardenWeb Forums' link to access a variety of forums' ranging from Bonsai to Roses... A must site for us Plant Nutz!...=20 Good Growing... ... Richard Berg --=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D-- -=3D[ Richard Berg ]=3D- =20 bergrd@valunet.com ICQ#2671110 Astronomy, Bonsai, CP's, Tropicals http://www.valunet.com/~bergrd --=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D-- ################### From: "Peter Lowden" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:40:51 +1300 Subject: Looking for Drosera Seed. I am looking for Drosera seed, as the only thing I really can find is capensis (and heaps of it!). Does anyone know where to get anything more intersesting, preferably close to New Zealand. Thanks, Peter. ################### From: "Jens Rotthauwe" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:15:16 +0100 Subject: D. petiolaris complex photos / D. neocaledonica Hi List ! I have grown some D. petiolaris complex plants from seed and want to make sure they really are what they should be(They look pretty similar so far...). Are there any photos or other information concerning the D.petiolaris complex on the web ? Does anybody know if the photo of D. petiolaris in Pietropaolos book is correct (is D. petiolaris always that pubescent ? My plants are not ...) BTW has anybody got seed of D.neocaledonica (or any information on this plant)? Thanks a lot for your help ! Kind regards Jens _____________ ______________________ Jens Rotthauwe Tel.: 0228 /253216 Im Jagdfeld 61 Email: uzsb09@uni-bonn.de 53125 Bonn GERMANY ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 07:50:08 PST Subject: Free Seed Update / D.neocaledonica /D.oblanceolata Good news, I finally sent out that old CP seed that I had kept in the fridge for the last few years. I sent seed to about 20 other list-members. Unfortunately, I didn't have enough to send to 2 or 3 of the people who responded. :( If you are one of those people (you'll know in a week or 2 max), email me and I will try to send you some fresh seed once i get some! If you do receive seed from me, please email me once you get it so I know that it's arrived and please also keep me posted as to germination success! Re: D.neocaledonica - I too am looking for seeds or small plants of this 1, if you've got any extra, please email me. am also curious to know how people grow this 1! Re: D.oblanceolata, i know what D.petiolaris looks like and now that ive seen the close-up photos, i dont know what i was thinking when i asked if it was related to petiolaris! oops. happy growing matt ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: Mike V Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:51:09 +0000 Subject: Brocchinia pupping Hello all: Recently I discovered that my 9" tall Brocchinia reducta had produced a pup; it is about 1/4" tall. Just now I found another, about half the size. So, how many more can I expect? How fast will they grow? When, if ever, should I separate them? How will this end? Will it just keep pupping indefinitely, die after awhile, flower, or what? Thanks- Jonathan Mitchell :) ################### From: Necropsy69 Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 23:22:34 EST Subject: Nepenthes propagation. Hey fellow cpers, Have you ever had a very large nepenthes with several stems that you wanted to cut back, and after you cut the plant back, you still had a large plant left? Well, instead of removing more of the mother plant's stem, allow it to begin to grow the new stems. I've noticed if you allow the mother plant to grow those secondary stems, and then you remove them and plant them, they will produce healthier plants with more definate results. And the good thing is, if your plant is large enough, even after you take the secondary stems off for rooting, you'll still have a good amount of the mother plant left to produce new stems. Well, this is not really a method for people who aren't in the condition I am in. I just thought I should share that with you. See ya guys later and let me know if you have questions. Bye Behrad ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:33:13 GMT Subject: Bargain Find / Cultivating Sphagnum... Greets, Was wondering the best way to cultivate live sphagnum moss within a CP terrarium...=20 Today I called most of the local nurseries in my area and ran into a major dead end finding live sphagnum... All of the retailers had none or even didn't know it came in 'live' forms (this was fun explaining how = they get it dried and dead ;) With all the roadblocks still in place I visited one of these local nursery's and found some rather sickly VFT's... Since I'm just starting I have only VFT's at this moment and curiously scanned the lot only to find nearly 70% of them either dead or on their way to checking out... Within= a few moments I noticed that many of the already dead plants had been overgrown with healthy green spahgnum and instantly thought of a way to propose to the keeper she should allow me to buy the dead plants for the sole reason of the living moss...=20 She took kindly to this and actually gave me 3 pots for free with mucho live spahgnum... I've added this to my already established setup ( 5 1/2 gallon terrarium) and thought to ask the group the best way to cultivate this moss so I can eventually grow in mostly live moss...=20 Also to my DELIGHT while opening the pots to weed out the moss I found the most beautiful plant I now have... I've seen this only on web sites = so far but am excited to now own an all red variant VFT... She was just sitting there, albeit covered in total moss, in the center as planned... = I was shocked to find this since at first I only saw moss and the other plants offered were quite yellow-green... Pretty healthy so far with deep red coloration the lobes/teeth of the traps and new leaves forming from center with a red hue... Not to bad for a little quick thinking and ingenuity!...=20 Please email regarding the moss if anyone has time and I PROMISE next post will be shorter and less melodramatic! =3D) ... Richard --=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D-- -=3D[ Richard Berg ]=3D- =20 bergrd@valunet.com ICQ#2671110 Astronomy, Bonsai, CP's, Tropicals http://www.valunet.com/~bergrd --=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D--=3D*=3D-- ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 01:25:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Misc. Where I live here in Florida, the "winter" is the season where it gets a little colder outside and a lot of the little creepy-crawly beasties like to start coming inside where the people usually keep it much warmer than necessary. In the apts in which I live, this is also the season when I typically see the little pharoah ants (I've heard them called sugar ants, too) come into my kitchen. As I'm sure everyone here is aware, Nepenthes use nectar to attract their prey. Well, it seems that "my" pharoah ants are attracted to Nepenthes nectar, I have just recently discovered; very attracted. In particular, my N.alata x maxima usually has several dozen teeny little ants running around its peristome. Needless to say, many fall in. So here it is, the cold part of the year when bugs are typically scarce and my Nepenthes are gorging themselves. I'm trying to avoid the urge to start leaving candy wrappers lying around in the other terrarium for my other plants.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Jens Rotthauwe" Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:27:45 +0100 Subject: Drosophyllum Hi list ! Does anybody have spare seed (about 10) of Drosophyllum for sale or trade. Please ask for my seedlist if you are interested. Kind regards Jens _____________ ______________________ Jens Rotthauwe Tel.: 0228 /253216 Im Jagdfeld 61 Email: uzsb09@uni-bonn.de 53125 Bonn GERMANY ################### From: "Dr Pamela Burns-Balogh" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 05:20:27 -0600 Subject: Balogh Scientific Books- Carnivorous plant books I have the following books available which you might be interested in.. shipping charges are added but only at cost.. if you are interested in purchasing any of these please email us.. Pam PITCHER-PLANTS Phillipps, A. & A. Lamb. 1996. Pitcher-Plants of Borneo. This work deals with the genus Nepenthes (Pitcher Plants) in Borneo, some of which are cultivated by enthusiasts in many parts of the World. There are chapters on discovery and history, ecology and natural history, pitcher plants in folklore, and an account of the 40 species and hybrids known from Borneo. All are illustrated in colour from paintings by Susan Phillips. x + 171 pp. Hard cover with dust jacket. Many colour and b & w illustrations. ISBN 983 812 009 X $42.00 Simpson, RB. 1994. Pitchers in Trade. Kew, Royal Botanic Gardens. 61p. $15.00 LENTIBULARIACEAE Taylor, PG. reprint 1994. The genus Utricularia: a taxonomic monograph. Kew, Royal Botanic Gardens, reprinted 1994. Now once again available. xii + 724 pp. Soft Cover. ISBN 0 947643 72 9 $80.00 NEPENTHES Jebb, M & M. Cheek. A skeletal revision of Nepenthes (Nepenthaceae). Blumea volume 42, No. 1. 1997. pp. 1-106: A world revision of the genus is presented to accompany a family account for the Flora. of Malesiana. 82 species are recognized, of which 74 occur in the Malesiana region. 6 species are described as new, 1 species if raised from infraspecific status, and 5 species are restored from synonymy. Many names are typified for the first time. Full descriptions are given for 6 new and 7 recircumscribed species. Critical notes are supplied for all species. An index to all published names and an index to exsiccatae (herbarium specimens) are given. In addition, there are keys to species arranged by islands (Sumatra, Borneo, Molucca, etc. Each species account includes the name, authors, original citation, type specimen, distribution, notes, ecology (short). several line figures, some B&W photos, and maps. paperback. $35.00 PINGUICULA Casper, S. Jost. 1966. Monographie Der Gattung Pinguicula L. Bibliotheca Botanica Heft 127/128, Band XXXI. covers history, systematics, morphology, genetics, ecology, physiology, evolution. Subgenus Isoloba: 20 species, Subgenus Temnoceras: 9 species, Subgenus Pinguicula: 17 species. in German, 241 pp., 28 B&W photos, 46 drawings or maps. $155.00 Dr. Pamela Burns-Balogh balogh@balogh.com Balogh Scientific Books, http://www.balogh.com 1911 N. Duncan Rd. , Champaign, Illinois 61821 USA fax: +1 217 355 9413; phone: +1 217 355 9331 ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:13:05 EST Subject: Re:Heliams wanted!! Hello List! Brian from Fl. here...Hey,that's great news about the cp chat on gardenweb.com Cool!! I'll have to scoot over there in a bit! I'm looking for Heliams,maybe ....a flat of them would do nicely..to mass produce as an item on my list in the future. Preferably H.nutans or H.heterodoxa,but H. minor is fine also...I'm also looking for Drosera seed..nothing hum - drum though...Any ideas or replys are appreciated....Thanks, and enjoy CP!! Bri :) ################### From: dmjoel@mail.netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:34:56 +0200 (IST) Subject: Winter Meeting in Israel To all CP lovers in Israel, The winter meeting of the CP Society of Israel will take place on Tuesday January 27 at 17:00 in room 02, the Sherman Building, Tel-Aviv University. Dr. Moshe Agami (Director of the Botanical Gardens of Tel-Aviv University) will talk about the Nepenthes habitat in madagascar, and Mrs. Sara Giladi (the University Botanical Garden in Jerusalem) will discuss winter treatments that are required for CP. Plants will be offered for sale at 16:30. All welcome. ________________________________________________________ Dr. Daniel M. Joel Carnivorous Plant Society of Israel ________________________________________________________ ################### From: "R. Beer" Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 20:06:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: raising live Sphagnum Hi Richard, thought I'd put in my $0.02 worh. I'm lucky to live in an area where there is live sphagnum within walking distance of my house. But being conservation minded, I don't believe in going out and digging up armloads of the stuff for my pots. At the high point of my CP cultivation, I had maybe 10 flats of pots and a large tub planter, as well as various and sundry aquaria and fishbowls. All the moss I ever had was the descendent of about three handfuls taken from a local bog on lake Washington about 9 years ago. I simply took a sharp knife and cut the moss up into tiny pieces - minute really. I was tempted to try the food processor but thought that might mutilate it a bit much (anyone tried it? Sphagnum cookery? ). :) One small handful, cut like that, sprinkled over a large planter of peat and watered in, will produce a lush cover in a season. Unless of course local raccoons get their own idea, but that is another story... From then, I would just "mow" the moss with scissors from time to time and cut up the trimmings for other pots. No shortage now. One thing I have *not* been successful with is trying to grow it from dry long-fiber sphagnum moss. Theoretically the spores must be there but either I didn't give it the right conditions for germination, or it was too old and the spores weren't viable any more. Bob ################### From: "Peter Lowden" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:58:38 +1300 Subject: Drosera binata germination What are peoples experience in germinating this species? I got some seed a few months ago. It took about five weeks to germinate. Some seed I planted last Sunday, has just germinated. Thats just over a week! Has anyone else managed to get it to grow that quickly? I wish I could get my Sarracenia to germinate that quickly, my last lot took three months! ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:09:49 Subject: Re: Gel Electrophoresis of Nep Dear Chris, > Has anyone out there tried gel electrophoresis of Nepenthes, > Droseraceae, Drosophyllum or know of published references to this? Yes, cf. T.Lowrey, Am.J.Bot.78:200 (1991). > I am > doing an isozyme study of N. gracilis, N. ampullaria and N. rafflesiana and > their hybrids and am having trouble getting good enzyme/buffer > combinations. Any help would be greatly appreciated. What kind of extract are you working with? Which enzymes do you want to investigate? Do you use antioxidants? It frequently helps to add physiological concentrations of coenzymes of the investigated enzymes to the extraction buffer. Which detection methods do you (want to) apply? I suppose you use cellulose electrophoresis for your isozyme analyses. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Davil Dane Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:35:19 EST Subject: Sarracenia x 'Ladies in Waiting' - Thanks Thanks to everyone for all the useful information about this new cultivar. I ordered one from Niche Gardens' website. It's also listed as a "TOP PICK" in the February, 1998 issue of Horticulture (text, page 34; picture, page 36). BTW, the January 1st, 1998 issue of American Nurseryman has a story on page 14 about a new "All-Green Purple Pitcher Plant" (S. purpurea subsp. venosa var. burkii forma alba) to be introduced by the Atlanta Botanical Garden. Apparently, the plant will be available through CPN this spring or summer. Stay tuned! David Lane Dover, NH ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:08:27 PST Subject: SUPERthrive source Hello CP-DUDES Does anyone know of a source of SUPERthrive that sells it for less than $8.45 for a 4 oz. bottle. I would also like to know of the cheapest source of nepenthes. Justin T. Arthur Chapel Hill, NC 27514 United States Of America ################### From: Joe Cumbee Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:42:00 -0500 Subject: Re: SUPERthrive source Justin, Try A World of Orchids, I know you can buy it by the gallon from them at about $55.00 http://www.orchidmall.com/awoo/index.htm joe Justin Arthur wrote: > Hello CP-DUDES > Does anyone know of a source of SUPERthrive that sells it for less than > $8.45 for a 4 oz. bottle. I would also like to know of the cheapest > source of nepenthes. > > Justin T. Arthur > > Chapel Hill, NC 27514 > United States Of America ################### From: anggrek@juno.com (Tsuh Yang Chen) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:24:24 EST Subject: stratifying seeds dear cp'ers, i have a few seeds of sarracenia thanks to david meillard's generosity. i wanted to know if it is possible to stratify them dry, and if it is necessary that they be stored wet in the fridge, can i use ziploc bags for that purpose? thanks for any info. tsuh yang chen, new york city ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:03:34 -0500 Subject: Re:Sugar Ant Remedy >Nepenthes >use nectar to attract their prey. Well, it seems that "my" pharoah ants >are attracted to Nepenthes nectar, I have just recently discovered; very >attracted. Trent here in the office, once again on Richard's computer. I found Derek's posting amusing. The sugar ants appear in my kitchen (also in Florida), and I could never figure out what was attracting them, as I keep the kitchen spotlessly clean. I tried eveything to get rid of them, without resorting to strong insecticides. I solved the problem overnight with a single plant of N. alata. I placed the plant next to the sink, turned out the lights and called it a night. The next morning there were no more ants. A single pitcher was full of drowned ants, with a few stragglers still running around the peristome or clinging to the lid . The plant went back outside and the kitchen ant problem was solved. Helpful housekeeping tips for CP ers. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Ross.Rowe@ea.gov.au (Ross Rowe) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:18:38 +1000 Subject: Re: stratifying seeds I have tried the following methods of stratification of seed with good success. These techniques have been published in the Australian Carnivorous Plant Society Newsletter (mostly refer to article by Allen Lowrie, I think in vol 16.1, 1997). Refer to ACPS website (http://www.camtech.net.au/acps/framed.html) for subscription details. Simply place the seed in a paper envelope, immerse in water and freeze for 36 hours. Thaw and sow (seed can dry again before sowing or place the whole ice block on top of soil if not using a paper envelope). Used for Darlingtonia, my observations showed signs of germination (swelling and splitting of seed coat) after 1-2 weeks. This freezing method also works for Sarracenia with germination c. 4weeks later. Another method is to treat the seeds with a gibberelic acid solution (10ml per litre of water). Soak the seed in labelled envelope for 24 hours, dry and sow. Germination times similar to the above freezing technique for both Darlingtonia and Sarracenia. When seeking supplies of Gibberelic acid (a plant growth hormone) shop around, cost varies, obtained from agricultural product suppliers. One source is called "Gallop Growth" by NUFARM. The liquid is apparently better than the powder forms. For VFT, no treatment necessary, a test of the above 2 techniques and no treatment on a batch of seed showed little variation in germination time. Note all the above seed was from the ACPS seed bank and had I believe been stored dry in a fridge (refer to previous notes on this list from Russell Elliot, seed bank coordinator). A friend recently sowed his fresh VFT seed straight after harvesting (early summer) and the seed germinated a few weeks later. Allen Lowrie's article also gives direction for breaking dormancy in Drosera seed using a smoke treatment. Hope this helps Ross Canberra ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: anggrek@juno.com (Tsuh Yang Chen) at Internet dear cp'ers, i have a few seeds of sarracenia thanks to david meillard's generosity. i wanted to know if it is possible to stratify them dry, and if it is necessary that they be stored wet in the fridge, can i use ziploc bags for that purpose? thanks for any info. tsuh yang chen, new york city ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:50:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Drosera Binata germination Peter, In CP Digest 1332 you wrote: What are peoples experience in germinating this species? I got some seed a few months ago. It took about five weeks to germinate. Some seed I planted last Sunday, has just germinated I think, though I'm not positive, is this species requires a short stratification. Last winter I received a small pack of binata seed from Dean Cook. It was immediately sown in a pot in one of my plant tanks under lights. After 1 month I only had two seedlings. I transplanted these to a different pot then used the leftover peat/sand for mix in other pots. Around the first of April (fool's) all my indoor CP were relocated outside on my patio. The first part of this month in Ohio is like riding a rollercoaster, one day its 75f, the next you've got 6" of snow in your driveway. There were some nights when temps got down to the low 30's. By early June many of my pots of VFT, Drosera, and Sarracenia were EXPLODING with D. binata! I'm still pickin' them out now..... If your seed is still fresh germination might not be a problem. Try sprinkling the binata seed on a damp piece of paper towel, roll it up, and stick inside the fridge for a few weeks. After that, remove it and sow on 50/50 peat-sand, then set in a well lit place with high humidity. Hope this helps, Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: Ploobutt Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:45:40 EST Subject: Ants in my nepenthes Hi, I was wondering what I should do, two of my nepenthes have alot of ants burrowing in their pots. Is that going to harm them? The main difference I noticed is that all of the usually whole sphagnum is ground up to powder. I was thinking of soaking them in distilled water, but they would just go out of the pot and onto the plant. Any ideas? Thanks, Gabriel ################### From: CMcdon0923 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:38:03 EST Subject: Calling Joe Harden Sorry to clutter up the list with this, but Joe, I couldn't respond to your 'Re. Texas?' mail item. My reply keeps getting bounced back (several attempts) from your ISP due to "address permanent fatal errors". So, in reply: I'm located just north of Dallas. Again, my apologies to the rest of the list. And while I'm at it, I certainly enjoy when "posters" to the list include a comment as to where they are located. Perhaps more of you (us) could include a short blurb as to where you're located. Seems like we have quite a geographicaly diverse membership. Thanks, Craig (just north of Dallas, Texas) Craig ################### From: lmbuddenhagen@ucdavis.edu (Leilani Buddenhagen) Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:16:39 -0700 Subject: some advice Hello! I am an Environmental Horticulture student at the University of California at Davis. I am researching a project which will outline the complete production requirments of a carniverous plant. My interests in conservation and personal enjoyment of carniverous plants are not necssarily embodied by the market focus of the assignment. But I would like to try it anyway. I am hoping that your expertise might lead me to either the facts them selves or referals to the information I need. What is the most easy (i.e. energy/time efficient) to propagate/produce carniverous plant species? Which species has the most potential for public interest? What species has the most information availiable about its production requirements? Where is my best bet for finding these details of production? (books, magazines, growers, hobbyists, university departments, etc) Do you know of anything in particular? I appreciate you helping to nudge me in the right direction. Thanks alot. Gratefully, Leilani Buddenhagen "In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart". --Anne Frank 1929-1944 ################### From: "Jens Rotthauwe" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:44:24 +0100 Subject: Superthrive contents ? Hello list ! Does anybody know the active ingredients (and their concentration)of Superthrive ? At what dilution is superthrive used. I guess it probably contains some cytokinin (and maybe some auxin) which is rather inexpensive. Kind regards Jens _____________ ______________________ Jens Rotthauwe Tel.: 0228 /253216 Im Jagdfeld 61 Email: uzsb09@uni-bonn.de 53125 Bonn GERMANY ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:44:40 -0000 Subject: Re: N madagascariensis No I don't grow any Nepenthes, but I do have a few 'succulents' (mainly Kalanchoes, some of which are in flower at the moment) from Madagascar. The successful regime for N madagascariensis sounds very similar to that which I give the succulents - very open, free-draining growing medium, allow to dry out between waterings and partial shade. Do these plants grow in the same locations in the wild? NigelH ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:58:52 -0000 Subject: Re: intro, questions and answer Hello Bill, Good to hear from another pygmy grower. In my experience there is no easy answer to your pygmy question. Dormancy and gemmae production both seem to be governed by similar factors; photoperiod, light intensity and temperature. Some of my pygmies reliably go dormant then produce gemmae at the right time, some never go dormant but produce gemmae at the right time, and some do odd things whenever the feeling takes them - ie I have some simultaneously producing gemmae and flowers at the moment. I think I give them reasonable photoperiod and temperature regimes, but I don't think I manage sufficient light intensity during the summer; this probably explains the behaviour of the odd ones, plus the fact that I find some species (eg citrina, sewelliae) very difficult. Good Growing, NigelH ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com (Michael A Sankovich) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:05:36 -0500 Subject: re: Carnivorous plants cool site listed, The Official Komando Dear List, Found this listed in another list serve. The kool sites are usually broadcast on her nationally syndicated radio show, and then listed in her weekly E-zine. I guess the subject has caused some national recognition. Michael Sankovich "Ashes to ashes, Dust to dust, If the misery don't get you, The raspberry julep spring tonic, (with the persimmon sap,) Must!" --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- To: Message-ID: <199801141643.JAA255.18@server01.komando.com> ===================================================== The Official Komando Weekly E-Zine for January 13, 1998 ===================================================== What's in This Sporty Issue! ~ Kim's Komputer Column --- Getting SAT Score Help for Free Online ~ Kool Site Preview --- Carnivorous Plants, Study Web, and Skiing Safety ~ Komputer Tip of the Week --- Printing Small Envelopes ~ The Lawyers Made Us Do It and Subscribe/Unsubscribe Details ==================================================== Copyright 1998, The Komando Corporation. All rights reserved. Kim Komando is a TV host, syndicated talk radio host, author, and entrepreneur. You can visit Kim on the Internet at http://www.komando.com .. ***ATTENTION SENIOR CITIZENS*** ===================================================== Kool Site Preview! ===================================================== --}Carnivorous Plants For millions of years animals have eaten plants, but occasionally some plants bite back. Visit this site to learn more about types of carnivorous vegetation and how to grow them yourselves. Who needs a guard dog when you can have a garden full of Venus Flytrap's! http://www.algonet.se/~murevarn/ --------------------------------------------------------------- =================================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------- Internet Home Page: http://www.komando.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:10:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Calling Joe Harden >And while I'm at it, I certainly enjoy when "posters" to the list include a >comment as to where they are located. Perhaps more of you (us) could include >a short blurb as to where you're located. Seems like we have quite a >geographicaly diverse membership. > >Thanks, >Craig (just north of Dallas, Texas) > >Craig This is a good idea and can be very helpful. It is quite often done on other lists as well as including the hardiness zone. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 04:59:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Nep project/ Electrophoresis CPfolk, First off, I apologize for inadvertantly sending a personal message to Tan Wee Kiat to the list by mistake. I hate it when that happens. In any case, as my email mentioned, I will be out in Singapore and Peninsular Malaysia from about March 1 to the end of July studying Nepenthes and their hybrids for my PhD project. I would be glad to meet with anyone from the region or anyone who might be visiting the region during that time to talk Nepenthes and/or explain more about my study (Joseph, send me your phone # and I'll ring you up when I get there!). As for Jans response to my query concerning any other electrophoretic studies on Nepenthes: I am well aware of Tim Lowrey's work- he is my advisor and the data you refered to is sitting on my desk right now. Unfortunately, his study addressed whether Nepenthes show evidence of gene duplication consistent with polyploidy (they don't) and I am trying to study the genetic population structure in hybrid zones. Much of his data do not have the resolution I need. >What kind of extract are you working with? Which enzymes do you want >to investigate? Do you use antioxidants? Leaf extracts; any that show allelic variation between species and yes. I used an extraction buffer originally designed for spruce that is supposed to be great at cutting through the gunk of even the ickiest of plants (from a protein's point of view). >It frequently helps to add physiological concentrations of coenzymes >of the investigated enzymes to the extraction buffer. Nice idea, but it's a little late to be changing the extraction buffer since I am approximately on the opposite side of the planet from my study plants. The other problem is that while adding coenzymes to the extraction buffer might help resolve one enzyme, they tend to screw up resolution for other enzymes that I might potentially want to look at. >Which detection methods do you (want to) apply? I suppose you use >cellulose electrophoresis for your isozyme analyses. Starch gels. I am getting some better results now, but it is tedious experimenting trial and error style with enzymes and buffers and I have a somewhat limited supply of leaf extract on hand to experiment with. It would save me a lot of time if someone else had already worked out some enzyme systems in this region of plant taxonomy. But, if no one's done it, then I guess I get to be the one to do the grunt work. By the way, there is a really interesting paper on the use of insect nutrition by carnivorous plants in last month's Oecologia (Dec 1, 1977, vol 112(4), starting on page 464). Using nitrogen stable isotope discrimination they (I think it is Schultz et al., I don't have the paper on my desk) were able to determine that N. mirabilis gets 67% of its nitrogen from captured insects. They also report the figures for Cephalotus, Darlingtonia and Drosera. Pretty neat stuff. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 (505) 277-0683 Fax: (505) 277-3781 Homepage: http://redtail.unm.edu/ ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:55:21 -0000 Subject: Re: Gardenworld CP Forum This may be a two-edged sword. Although it is to be welcomed for increasing the interest in our subject, we should hope that it doesn't turn out to be a competitor for this listserver. Is someone planning to publicise this listserver within the forum? NigelH ################### From: "Haakan Murevaern" Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:04:57 +0100 Subject: Re: D. petiolaris complex photos / D. neocaledonica Hello Jens and list! >Does anybody know if the photo of D. petiolaris in Pietropaolos book is >correct >(is D. petiolaris always that pubescent ? My plants are not ...) The _Drosera petiolaris_ I have are not exactly like these. Mine have a more flat petitole and not so pubescent. There is a image of it on my page. It is my only _Drosera_ from petiolaris complex. Any comments from some with more knowledge would be appriciated. Happy trapping Haakan Murevaern See my Carnivorous Plants at http://www.algonet.se/~murevarn ################### From: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de (Oliver Gluch) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:47:39 +0100 Subject: seed of P. planifolia and P. lutea Hi folks, I am looking for fresh seed of Pinguicula planifolia and P. lutea. If anyone is interested in a trade, please contact me privately. I could offer plants of many Pinguicula species. Oliver ---------------------------------- Oliver Gluch Lindenallee 44 26122 Oldenburg Germany Phone/fax: +49-441-72618 email: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de ---------------------------------- ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:54:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Anthocyanin free Darlingtonia - nomenclature >I therefore maintain that anthocyanin albinos (which are known in >almost any anthocyanin-containing species) do *not* have any >taxonomic relevance, as long as they do not constitute separated >populations that behave ecologically and chorologically independently >from their ancestral taxon. They can be of horticultural value, but >this is no taxonomic issue. Hi Jan and list members, This conversation has probably already passed me by since I've been out for a week but since it's one that interests me greatly, I'd like to ask a question and point out an observation from my bog. Your point about combining morphology and ecology sounds logical and reasonable. I'm surpirsed sometimes to read that some taxonomists base their decisions just (or maybe I should say predominantly) on morphology when looking at a specimen and deciding where it fits in the taxonomic scheme. Applying your ideas mentioned above, is it right to assume that S. purpurea purpurea f. heterophylla is a distinct taxonomic entity because it predominates in some wild populations of S. purpurea purpurea? Whereas, in other Sarr species with the occassional anthocyanin-free variant in a wild population, such designations are not warranted? Now, I'll add a superficial observation from my outdoor bog. The lone S. purp purp f. heterophylla seems to be in better shape than S. purp purp and S. purp venosa that are growing in the same outdoor conditions. The purp purp and purp venosa species have a few pitchers that are weathered and probably no longer functional while the f. heterophylla pitcher's are in perfect condition. It may be that it's in slightly more protected position in the bog or maybe the lack of anthocyanin allows the chlorophyll to be more efficient at producing energy for the plant.. To end up predominating in a wild population the anthocyanin free mutant must have some type of ecological advantange, which ends up being the justification for giving it taxonomic status. David ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:45:19 +0000 Subject: Re: intro, questions and answer Hi, > I have two questions. Firstly, I have started growing pygmy sundews >under lights. Can they be grown evergreen, or do they need a dormancy? I >have conflicting information here. I want gemmae, but if I can vary the >growing conditions to my own schedule this will take the hassle out of it! > Some pygmy species can be grown without a dormancy, others will take one whether you give it or not. > Secondly, my Darlingtonias set seed this year, but I am unsure of the >best approach to raising seedlings. Slack simply recommends the same >approach as Sarracenias, and I have had little success tracking down other >recommendations. It seems to me that there are a number of obvious >questions; > >i) Is it best to use live sphagnum? >ii) Do they require a longer (colder?) stratification than Sarracenias? >iii) Since the roots are closer to the surface, and therefore given less >insulation from the growing medium, do you have to be more careful to >limit the root temperature, than in the mature plants? Perhaps there is a >dilemma here - how do the seeds know that the growing season is >approaching if the soil temperature remains low - i.e. is germination >(after stratification) triggered by increased photoperiod alone? > Darlingtonia seed do not require a cold stratification period. They are best sown as fresh as possible. At this time of the year however you are unlikely to get germination unless you give them heat. I use a standard Sarracenia mix to germinate them Darlingtonia is notoriously susceptible to high temperatures. However, you are unlikely to have problems when growing in the UK unless we get an exceptionally hot summer. We tend to get a marked drop in nightime temperatures even during the hottest summers and this seems sufficient to cool things around the Darlintonia roots. I've not found seedlings to be any more suseptible in this respect that the adult plants. Regards, -- Phil Wilson ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:08:00 -0500 Subject: FW: Stratification The seeds I sent recently to some members on the list were not stratified. I thought I would post again the email below since I've gotten questions about stratification. David ---------- To: 'CP List' I thought I would let everyone know how I stratify Sarracenia seed in case someone is new to stratification. The basic idea is to incarcerate the seed in a cold, wet environment for a period. I place the seed in a small, sealable container, add a few drops of rainwater, add a couple of sprigs of live sphagnum moss, and then add enough rainwater so that it looks like there's a slight excess of moisture. All this is by the touch, feel, and sight method. I like live sphagnum because it makes me feel that it might keep down microbes, it absorbs lots of water, and it increases the surface area for contact with seed. I like rainwater because I feel that it has the right pH, at least in the beginning. I like extra moisture because it makes me feel like I'm providing enough moisture to get the right biochemical reactions going. I like small containers because if makes me feel like everything in the container is in contact with everything else. Last year, I stratified for about 6 months in the refrigerator and got excellent germination. Based on what I've read this year, though, I plan to stratify for 6 weeks -- another feeling. If you don't have live sphagnum, a paper towel might do. Are you getting nauseating with this feeling stuff. My point is, this is more art than science or rather it's art based on a small knowledge of science. I'm posting this to the list in hopes that other people might share how they stratify and then you can choose what you feel will work for you. David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:48:00 -0500 Subject: Re: stratifying seeds Hi Ross, > Simply place the seed in a paper envelope, immerse in water and freeze > for 36 hours. Thaw and sow (seed can dry again before sowing or place > the whole ice block on top of soil if not using a paper envelope). > Used for Darlingtonia, my observations showed signs of germination > (swelling and splitting of seed coat) after 1-2 weeks. > This freezing method also works for Sarracenia with germination c. > 4weeks later. What an intriguing method for sterilizing Sarr seed. I'll have to do a comparison with the stratifying method I use. I thought it odd in Phil Sheridan's recent paper in the ICPS journal that he got what I thought was a low germination rate. I don't remember the percentage exactly but it was somewhere around 25%. I've never calculated the rate of germination for my method, always being satisfied with a blanket of seedlings in the 3 or 4 inch pot used for sowing. For those of you that received Sarr seed from me, what do you think of reporting back the various germination rates along with the stratification method you used? One of the few things I remember from those horrendous statistics courses was that it's better to use 10 pots with 20 seeds in each pot than 1 pot with 200 seeds. It could turn into one gigantic, nightmarish meta-analysis but it would be fun anyways. Oh, well, the challenge is there. David ################### From: Ross.Rowe@ea.gov.au (Ross Rowe) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:35:22 +1000 Subject: Re[2]: stratifying seeds David or others, I have not read Phil Sheridans article, what approach was he taking to stratification? Ross Canberra ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: "Mellard; David" at Internet Hi Ross, > Simply place the seed in a paper envelope, immerse in water and freeze > for 36 hours. Thaw and sow (seed can dry again before sowing or place > the whole ice block on top of soil if not using a paper envelope). > Used for Darlingtonia, my observations showed signs of germination > (swelling and splitting of seed coat) after 1-2 weeks. > This freezing method also works for Sarracenia with germination c. > 4weeks later. What an intriguing method for sterilizing Sarr seed. I'll have to do a comparison with the stratifying method I use. I thought it odd in Phil Sheridan's recent paper in the ICPS journal that he got what I thought was a low germination rate. I don't remember the percentage exactly but it was somewhere around 25%. I've never calculated the rate of germination for my method, always being satisfied with a blanket of seedlings in the 3 or 4 inch pot used for sowing. For those of you that received Sarr seed from me, what do you think of reporting back the various germination rates along with the stratification method you used? One of the few things I remember from those horrendous statistics courses was that it's better to use 10 pots with 20 seeds in each pot than 1 pot with 200 seeds. It could turn into one gigantic, nightmarish meta-analysis but it would be fun anyways. Oh, well, the challenge is there. David ################### From: CALIFCARN Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:41:09 EST Subject: Re: Brocchinea division and Superthrive and growing live sphagnum Howdy folks. Jonathan Mitchell inquired about dividing Brocchinea reducta. In my experience, while offshoots develop occasionally on a plant, like most bromeliads it is after flowering that several offshoots will form rapidly, and the mother plant usually kicks the bucket after several months. I would recommend waiting until the offshoots are at least one quarter the size of the mother plant before dividing them. Before this time, roots may not be strongly developed on the baby plants: I have lost them when I have divided them too early. Concerning another message about Superthrive, the bottles are pre-priced by the Vitamin Institute. Four ounce bottles are $8.45, which is what we sell at California Carnivores. Two ounce bottles are also available for $5.24 (we, however, don't market that size). Concerning the growing of live sphagnum moss from dried long fiber, I usually do this in winter, when the moss grows best. I lay out the moss in seed trays, about two inches deep, and soak it so the moss is virtually waterlogged, and cover the tray with a clear plastic dome. I place the tray under the greenhouse bench, where it is cool and bright. The moss starts growing like crazy in a couple of months. Since I use Mosser Lee moss from Wisconsin, this moss is not really fond of continuously hot conditions, and generally succeeds only in a cooler environment, such as cold and cool greenhouses. By the way, I spend a few pages on the pros and cons of live sphagnum moss in my upcoming book. Peter D'Amato ################### From: L235 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:57:58 EST Subject: Re: D. binata germination Peter Lowden asked about D. binata germination times: I found that D. binata seed I planted from New Zealand (thanks, Len!) last year germinated fairly quickly (perhaps a bit slower than you reported ... a week and a half or so for the first sprouts), so it's apparently not unheard of. Since then they have been VERY slow growing, but that's another issue. Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) Reston, Virginia, USA ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:32:08 -0500 Subject: Re:Mystery maxima Trent here on Richard Brown's computer. Saw a new Nepenthes being wholesaled out through the usual channels. It is coming from DeRoose, and is their third mass produced Nepenthes clone. It is sold as N. maxima, which it most definitely is not. It is a hybrid. I was looking at some of these plants today trying to figure out what it might be. It looks more like a mirabilis hybrid than a maxima hybrid, in fact, if there is any maxima parentage, it would be a grandparent. Anyone out there in CP-Land have any knowledge as to the origin of this clone? Also as a word of warning to beginners with Nepenthes: sometimes Neps are sold at chain store garden centers with the pitchers dried out beyond recognition. If you encounter any N. maxima plants like this you may not be getting the species you think. While this clone is attractive, and a great beginners plant, it 's no N. maxima. Nothing against the above mentioned nursery, but I wish they would keep the facts straight. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:50:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Danser's Synoptic Statement Trent here again. I've got a Nepenthes question for the botanists out there in CP-Land. Danser broke the genus Nepenthes into groups , bases on what I understand to be similarities in morphology: Vulgatae, Montanae, Nobiles, Regiae, Insignes, and Urceolatae. Is this considered valid today? If so, has anyone done any further work on this topic, especially where new species come into the picture? Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 20 Jan 98 21:59 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes > From: AKIRA1688 > > I just receieved a Nepenthes Ampullaria and Nepenthes Ventricosa. Is > it possible to put them both together in a tank? What temp to keep at? Hi, Yes, you can put them both into the same terrarium. However, since N. ventricosa likes it cool at night (or not hot for more than a couple days) you will have a better looking N.ventricosa if you keep it in cooler temps than N.ampullaria which likes it warm or even hot. Dave Evans ################### From: "Tom Hulse" Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:01:56 -0800 Subject: Superthrive Jens Rotthauwe wrote: >Does anybody know the active ingredients (and their concentration)of >Superthrive ? .09% Vitamin B1 and .048% Napthyl Acetic Acid. >At what dilution is superthrive used. I use anywhere from 1 drop to 1/4 tsp. per gallon of water everytime I water, depending on the condition of the plant. I recently read the label of Black Flag's B-1 solution at a local home center and it listed the same 2 ingredients, but in higher concentrations, and at a tiny fraction of the cost. Does anyone have any knowledge or opinions on the other mystery ingredients that supposedly make Superthrive so much more expensive? Good Growing! Tom Hulse Marysville, Washington ################### From: AL850R Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:39:07 -0800 Subject: NEPENTHES ARISTOLOCHOIODES, NEPENTHES INERMIS, ETC. Wassup CP enthusiasts, Yeah, just got 6 Nepenthes cuttings, the rare ones. I received from friend, CP grower: N. Ampullaria Cantley's red (people sell it for $100 everywhere!!) N. dubia (funny upper pitchers and very clean-cut looking) N. inermis (a hella cool looking plant with almost no lid) N. rajah (King Monkey Cup, received as a 5 inch plant) N. burbidgeae (tight looking pitchers) N. talangensis (SLOW grower but very very nice colored pitchers) My friend specializes in only RARE Nepenthes. He's 17, I'm 15. Wanna get plants off him? His comp. crashed, so E-MAIL me for an order!!! ---Plants range from 3" in height to 10" in height------- Here's his grow list and plant prices: N. aristolochoiodes...........$70.00 (very rare, very unusual) N. ampullaria green...........$15.00 (clean looking) N. ampullaria spotted.........$$20.00 (nicely flecked w/red) N. ampullaria Cantley's red...$65.00 (very rare, beautiful) N. talangensis................$45.00 (slow grower, rare, nice) N. rajah......................$15.00 (typical giant, slow) N. ventricosa yellow w/ red p.$5.00 aka ex-japan (typical form) all red form....$10.00 (nice looking) black peristome.$20.00 (hard to find) N. burbidgeae.................$40.00 (nice choice, big pitchers) N. Lowii (both forms).........$30.00 (very unusual shaped urns) N. Eymae......................$65.00 (hard to find, very nice green) N. macfarlanei (white)........$45.00 (nice form, purple form avail.) N. pilosa.....................$35.00 (fast grower, large amounts) N. dubia......................$100.00 (our FAVE!!!! VERY RARE) N. ephippiata.................$55.00 (related to Lowii, larger) N. viellardi..................$15.00 (New Caledonia, green/red) ---More to come----- MANY 'rare' HYBRIDS AVAILABLE, e-mail for prices and info Also, Heliamphora available Thanks, Bruce=CP Grower...... Andrew-helper ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:59:29 Subject: Re: Danser's Synoptic Statement Dear Trent, > Danser broke the genus Nepenthes into groups , bases on what I > understand to be similarities in morphology: Vulgatae, Montanae, > Nobiles, Regiae, Insignes, and Urceolatae. > > Is this considered valid today? Not entirely. Vulgatae is certainly a vastly heterogeneous group uniting many unrelated species. Urceolatae are at least disputable. Nobiles includes at least two distinct groups. Regiae is remarkably homogeneous and probably a natural group. > If so, has anyone done any further work > on this topic, especially where new species come into the picture? Rudolf Schmid-Hollinger. I recommend his whole series "_Nepenthes_- Studien" that appeared during the 1970ies. Joe Mullins (Reading, UK) is presently working on a molecular phylogeny of the genus (so far without any published results). Heubl (Munich, Germany) wants to launch a RFLP study on the genus. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:33:56 -0800 Subject: Introduction Hello everyone I just joined the discussion group on 15/1/98 Introduction:- My name is Denis Daly from Sydney Australia. I am the President of the Carnivorous Plant Society of New South Wales (CPS of NSW), based in Sydney Australia. I am also editor of the CPS of NSW's news letter "FlyTrap News". Regards to one and all Denis Daly President of The Carnivorous Plant Society of New South Wales, Sydney Australia. ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:36:54 -0800 Subject: Feeding Carnivorous Plants Hellow All. Feeding Carnivorous Plants:- I have noted the discussions on feeding carnivorous plants. Some of you are noting improvements in your plants growth. I have been advocating fertilising carnivorous plants for some time now. In the case of Nepenthes most people apply reasonable amounts of fertiliser already. Nepenthes are not evaluated in the references referred to below. Being lucky enough to live in Sydney, Australia, my plants are outdoors all year and catch their own prey. The real significance of that fact became apparent only last week when I obtained a copy of a review of Mineral Nutrition of Carnivorous Plants (reference 1).There are two other related articles that were published in CPN in 1992 and 1996. (references 2 & 3) I must say that after reading reference 1 I learnt a lot from them on how I might improve my mineral fertilisation of Carnivorous Plants. Feeding of carnivorous plants is not simply a matter of either either ensuring that plants trap prey or of using very dilute fertilisers. While either helps BOTH together work wonders. Unless you grow hydroponically using distilled water you are fertilising the plants. Not all carnivorous plants have been investigated (references 1, 2, 3) as the scientific community has not assigned a high priority to the study of mineral nutrition of carnivorous plants. The articles are a valable starting point that we laymen (as most of us are) should be gratefully for to improve our techniques for the cultivation of carnivorous plants. References:- 1) "Mineral Nutrition of Carnivorous Plants: A Review." by Lubomir Adamec, of the Institute of Botany, Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, Section of Plant Ecology, Dukelska 145, CZ-379 82 Trebon, Czech Republic. PUBLISHED in The Botanical Review Vol. 63 No 3, July to September 1997 pages 273 to 299 inclusive. COPIES may be obtained from the Scientific Publications Department, The New York Botanic Garden, Bronx, NY 10458-5125 USA. (There is a large list of references that would also be worth studying.) 2) "Growth Effects of Mineral Nutrients Applied to the Substrate or onto the Leaves in Four Carnivorous Plant Species" by Lubomir Adamec et al. PUBLISHED on page 18 to 24 of the Carnivorous Plant NewsLetter, Vol. 21 No 1 & 2, March and June 1992. 3) "The Growth of Carnivorous Plants on an Acidified Fen Soil" by Lubomir Adamec. PUBLISHED on page 7 to 10 of the Carnivorous Plant NewsLetter, Vol. 25 No 1, March 1996. Regards Denis Daly dalymob@bigpond.com ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:41:09 -0800 Subject: SuperThrive Hello all, SUPERTHRIVE Some, but by no means all, orchid enthusiasts use SuperThrive in Australia. There are a lot of orchid growers who having tried it think it is a waste of money. I have yet to find a SuperThrive proponent who can demonstrate that their orchids or Nepenthes are bigger and or better than others who do not use SuperThrive. Thus without some proof of benefit matching the price I have not been inclined to use it. It is reputed to have auxins, cytokinins and gibberellins in it. When you start mixing those hormones the ratio between them, season, age of plant, species and/or cultivar of plant and many other factors can influence the result. Other potential components would be amino acids. It might even have renin in it. There could also be small quantities of inorganic mineral fertilisers. Does anyone know exactly what is in it and what concentration each component is? Has anybody analysed it or conducted a comparative growing trial? Does anyone know of other more economical products? Regards Denis Daly dalymob@bigpond.com ################### From: Laurent Legendre Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:33:55 +0100 Subject: D. neocaledonica, N. vieillardii and New Caledonia Hi everyone, I' m back from a one-month trip to New Caledonia where I saw millions of plants of D. neocaledonica, N. vieillardii and U. uliginosa. Seeds where scarce since all three carnivorous plants where barely starting to bloom. I was however able to collect a few seeds from D. neocaledonica and N. Vieillardii and I'll share them as much as possible since I already have these plants growing at home (seeds collected and planted after my last visit last year). They are of course one year old (not fresh) since they stayed on the plants all that time. I have already promised some seeds to a couple of people and they should recieve them this week. But, by looking at the CP digest of december, I've noticed that many more people are interested in these seeds. So please, email me privately if you're still interested. I took a large amount of pictures of all of these plants and I'll make them available on the Net as soon as possible. I'm not a computer expert but some people have already proposed their help. D. neocaledonica grows from sea level up to 1000m either in running water or where rain falls often. In culture, plant do well at conditions similar to the ones suitable to the northern Australian species. This did not seem to be a variable species even though mature rosettes vary from 1 cm to 12 cm in diameter. This reflects the growing conditions mostly. I've heard of all-green plants growing half-way north on the main island. Sadly, I haven't had any chance to check on that information. N. vieilardii is extremely variable even within one population with pitchers as big as 1l. Plants near Prony have a brown tint which others do not have. A lot of work should however be mdone on Utrics. These are rare and herbarium specimen even rarer. U. uliginosa is really extremely variable from one spot to the next but with a carelull look all plants fit the criteria described by Taylor. Once, I saw a weird utric growing under the water, attached to the soil in a river. It was mostly growing at 5 m below the water surface (as low as could go without air bottles) with a heavy stream. Some plants could be seen at only one meter below the surface and some at 18 m (!?!) if my calculations are corect. I did not collect any specimen because the flow of water was too heavy but I was told that one specimen has been sent to Taylor a few years ago (in alcohol) and he never identified the plant. The stolons are white and the plant has an unusually high number of pitchers. What was funny is that this plant was always growing along with a water fern and a fresh water sponge. Two nice plants too. A last thing, Yan I effectively saw the parasitic gimnosperm you talked about. I saw it at two places gowing on roots or at the base of the trunk of other gimnosperms (always the same tree). This is a wounder island. Happy growing, Laurent Legendre. ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:03:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Germination % Hi Matt, Thanks for the update. It's wonderful to know that you got such good germination rates. I think you may be right about the purpurea purpurea seed needing longer stratification. Maybe someone from the list has some experiences with germinating this species that they can share with us. David ---------- To: dam7@cdc.gov Hi, you sent me 6 packs of sarracenia seed a while back. I each different species's seeds in a wrapped up paper towel that was dampened with rain water that had superthrive in it. I then put the paper damp papertowels full of seed into 6 different plastic baggies. I then put all of the baggies into my refrigerator. I used no fungucide. 5 1/2 weeks later I removed the baggies and sowed the seed into 6 tuperware containers full of peat moss, saturated it and waited. 3 weeks later the seeds began to sprout. I am very pleased because I got around 85 % or the seeds of each species to sprout, and I now have pots just full of seedlings putting up their first juvenile pitchers. However I only got about 25% of the S. purpurea purpurea to sprout. All of the other species had around 85% sprout. Im not sure why but I believe it is because this pitcher plant is located farther north than many of the other pitcher plants and its seeds might expect or reqire a longer stratification period. Thanks Again For The Seed, Matt Miller ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 21 Jan 1998 14:15:32 +0100 Subject: Mail Problems CPers For some unexplained reason I have not been receiving Internet E-mail since the 17th Jan though every thing appears normal again now. If anyone has sent me messages between the 17th and the 20th please remail them. Thanks Loyd ################### From: dmjoel@mail.netvision.net.il (Daniel M. Joel) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:45:22 +0200 (IST) Subject: ants in the kitchen >Trent here in the office, once again on Richard's computer. I found >Derek's posting amusing. The sugar ants appear in my kitchen (also in >Florida), and I could never figure out what was attracting them, as I >keep the kitchen spotlessly clean. I tried eveything to get rid of >them, without resorting to strong insecticides. I solved the problem >overnight with a single plant of N. alata. I placed the plant next to >the sink, turned out the lights and called it a night. The next morning >there were no more ants. A single pitcher was full of drowned ants, with >a few stragglers still running around the peristome or clinging to the >lid . The plant went back outside and the kitchen ant problem was >solved. Hi Trend, Your description of ant trapping in the kitchen by Nepenthes reminds me of a similar situation that I had with Sarracenias: Ants in our kitchen tend to go to the pitchers rather than wonder around and stick to our Milk and Honey. I wonder, though, what species of Nepenthes have you used.Could you tell? Shalom from Israel, Danny ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 09:18 EST Subject: Re: Anthocyanin-free Darlingtonia > From: "Mellard, David" > Hi Jan and list members, > > Your point about combining morphology and ecology sounds logical and > reasonable. I'm surpirsed sometimes to read that some taxonomists base > their decisions just (or maybe I should say predominantly) on morphology > when looking at a specimen and deciding where it fits in the taxonomic > scheme. This is likely true for older taxonomic work, but most contemporary systematic studies combine other evidence (chemical, cytological, ecological) data with the morphological data, to support a phylogeny. Because some of the other (non-morphological) techniques require specialized equipment, you maynot often find a paper that combines several multiple techniques in one publication. Application of the other techniques may be another study in itself. Look for other studies cited in the morphological papers, since the chemical, cytological, and ecological papers may not always be well known to hobbyists, who as a group usually favor the morphology-based articles. I also think that plants with attractive morphology tend to generate an abundance of morphological studies, to the risk of redundancy. I hope nobody here is thinking of doing morphological study of pretty plants :-) :-) > Applying your ideas mentioned above, is it right to assume that S. > purpurea purpurea f. heterophylla is a distinct taxonomic entity because > it predominates in some wild populations of S. purpurea purpurea? > Whereas, in other Sarr species with the occassional anthocyanin-free > variant in a wild population, such designations are not warranted? I noticed Jan's statement about the distribution of Sarracenia purpurea f. heterophylla a while back, but I was too busy to say something then. As far as I know, the Michigan populations of this plant are the best documented ones. From what I've seen in Michigan, both the red and anthocyanin-lacking forms grow together in the same populations. The only paper I've seen on the distribution of the forma heterophylla is Fred Case's old paper in Rhodora, which also records the two forms growing together. Are there other publications on this plant's distribution which I've missed? Like Jan, I also have problems with the use of the rank of forma. Especially because forma ranking seems to usually be arbitrary. That is, a variant plant will be named as forma usually only if the variation is a conspicuous one in a showy plant, or one of horticultural interest. In most cases I think these variants would be better named as cultivars if they are grown; and if not grown, then referred to as "forms" (in the vernacular) and not given a latin forma epithet. I could go on and on about why forma names are bad, but I won't bore you all. > Now, I'll add a superficial observation from my outdoor bog. The lone > S. purp purp f. heterophylla seems to be in better shape than S. purp > purp and S. purp venosa that are growing in the same outdoor conditions. > The purp purp and purp venosa species have a few pitchers that are > weathered and probably no longer functional while the f. heterophylla > pitcher's are in perfect condition. It may be that it's in slightly > more protected position in the bog or maybe the lack of anthocyanin > allows the chlorophyll to be more efficient at producing energy for the > plant.. To end up predominating in a wild population the anthocyanin > free mutant must have some type of ecological advantange, which ends up > being the justification for giving it taxonomic status. Perhaps your anthocyanin-free plant has a better established root system, or is in a better corner (micro-habitat) in your bog? Difficult to say with a sample size of one! :-) Michael Chamberland ################### From: wOb Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:04:07 +0100 Subject: CP: Off topic: Mimosa Pudica seeds Hello from France to all CP growers :) I'm back again to bother you all with my Mimosa Pudica.... Just one thing: my beloved plant seems to be almost dead :( Many of you in response to my last message about the sensitive plant told me it is an annual plant so I was warned.... Though my plant is not completely dead (I cut it about 5cm above the ground and it seem to try to send out some new green leaves, maybe with the longer days coming it will survive through winter, I'm looking for seeds to replace it if should die. I've phone the people who sold me plant to ask for seeds and they said they don't seel seeds :( Now for the question: Do anyone know where to get some seeds in France ? Thanks for your help, and sorry for this off topic posting. Happy growing to you all Sincerely Cyril -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyril 'wOb' Fournillon Drop me a message: cyril.fournillon@inforoute.cgs.fr wOb@mail.dotcom.fr wOb@chez.com Visit my HomePage: http://www.inforoute.cgs.fr/fournill [Voice: +33 1 42 21 78 03] [Fax: +33 1 42 21 76 88] [ICQ: 1397712] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! I'm a .signature virus (mutant version), copy me to your .signature file to join in. ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:11:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Anthocyanin-free Darlingtonia Hi Mike, > Now, I'll add a superficial observation from my outdoor bog. The lone > S. purp purp f. heterophylla seems to be in better shape than S. purp > purp and S. purp venosa that are growing in the same outdoor conditions. >>Perhaps your anthocyanin-free plant has a better established root system, >>or is in a better corner (micro-habitat) in your bog? Difficult to say >>with a sample size of one! :-) I agree absolutely about the sample size of one. That's why I said superficial observation. This is an intriguing question, though. Why does the anthocyanin-free form predominate in a few locations in the northern US but not anywhere else or with any of the other species of Sarr. Is it because the anothocyanin-free form gives the plant an advantange in the north but not anywhere else? What's that advantage? Just musing, I'll repeat my earlier point about better energy production. Or maybe, the anthocyanin gives plants better tolerance to heat in the warmer southern US and that's why the sourthern Sarr species don't exhibit populations where anthocyanin-free forms predominate while in the cooler northern US, the presence of anthocyanin is not as crucial. I'm just speculating. Anyone got some facts that could be used to support or refute this idea or offer another explanation. David ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:25:27 EST Subject: Re: CP SUPER THRIVE When using SUPER THRIVE on my Venus along with Serra. my plants turn orange and wanted to croke. To off set the acidit nature and nutrualize, I used my 1 tablespoon of Baking Soda, 2 tablespoons of Corn cooking oil in 1 gallon of water and kept watering with it until the orange went away. Although some have had success with SUPER THRIVE on Nepenthes. Be careful. ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 07:35:12 PST Subject: Re: Ants in my Nepenthes Hi Gabriel, > I was wondering what I should do, two of my nepenthes have alot of >ants burrowing in their pots. Is that going to harm them? > > Thanks, > Gabriel A while back, I saw a little thing on ants on the Discovery Channel(maybe someone else on the list saw the same show). It was mentioned that ants don't directly harm plants, but they physically carry scale and mealy bug to your plants. The ants will attach the pest to your plant and let them do their thing. Every once in a while, the ants will "milk" the pest like a cow. It was quite amazing to see the video footage of an ant attaching a mealy bug to a plant and later returning to rob the mealy bug of it's plant nectar. So, get rid of those ants. I'd think about uprooting the plant and letting it sit in water for a while to loosen all the soil away from the roots. You may not have to use any chemical means to kill the ants, but it probably wouldn't hurt. Once you feel your plant is free of the ants, repot it in new soil. Stefan ################### From: "Lindblom, Mats" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:59:57 +0100 Subject: Sphagnum Hi=20 I=B4ve noticed some questions about sphagnum moss lately. Here=B4s a = site with some pictures of various types. Unfortunately not in english, but for what it=B4s worth....We have a lot of it here in Sweden.... http://www.nrm.se/kbo/krypt/vitmossa.html.se /Mats ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:08:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Ants in my Nepenthes >It was mentioned that ants don't directly harm plants, but they physically >carry scale and mealy bug to your plants. The ants will attach the pest >to your plant and let them do their thing. So, get rid of those ants. Only a few species of ants farm mealy bugs so it may not be necessary to get of your ants for this reason. My Sarr minor made short order of a population of ants that wandered into its terrarium so there are other ways if they keep coming back. David ################### From: -Tom- Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:13:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP: Off topic: Mimosa Pudica seeds Cyril & Anyone who loves Mimosa Pudica, >I'm looking for seeds to replace it if should die. >I've phone the people who sold me plant to ask for seeds and they >said they don't seel seeds :( I have quite a lot of fresh seed available. It is *free to anyone as long as the supply lasts. * Completely free If you have seed to trade, let me know what you have available. Please visit my web page to see if I have other plants/seed you want. OTHERWISE>>> If you have nothing to trade and live in the USA, just send a S.A.S.E. with .55 postage. Outside the USA, please send $1.00 for shipping and padded envelope. My address: GRAPHICMASTERS 236 Basin St. Williamsport, PA 17701 USA Take care & keep on growing, Thomas K. Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS dangerous_plants@hotmail.com tkhayes@mail.microserve.net http://www.infinicom.com/~thayes ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean De Witte) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:46:11 +0100 Subject: maxima Re the _weird_ maxima from De Roose. I remember giving him some seeds four years back, so it could be maxima. Anybody having a picture, please e-mail it (but not larger than 70KB!) Take care, Jean De Witte mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de home:http://home.t-online.de/home/j.dewitte ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:53:27 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Ants in my Nepenthes Ants are sometimes given a bad rap. It's true that they can carry aphids and scales to plants, but they are also a very good source of food for some CP plants like the S. Minor and Cephalotus and some Nephs. Charles Brewer >It was mentioned that ants don't directly harm plants, but they physically >carry scale and mealy bug to your plants. The ants will attach the pest >to your plant and let them do their thing. So, get rid of those ants. Only a few species of ants farm mealy bugs so it may not be necessary to get of your ants for this reason. My Sarr minor made short order of a population of ants that wandered into its terrarium so there are other ways if they keep coming back. ################### From: "Michael.Chamberland" <23274MJC@MSU.EDU> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 12:11 EST Subject: Re: Anthocyanin free > From: "Mellard, David" > > > I agree absolutely about the sample size of one. That's why I said > superficial observation. This is an intriguing question, though. Why > does the anthocyanin-free form predominate in a few locations in the > northern US but not anywhere else or with any of the other species of > Sarr. Is it because the anothocyanin-free form gives the plant an > advantange in the north but not anywhere else? What's that advantage? Well, having hiked around a good deal in prime habitat for this plant (if it really has a "prime habitat"), I would say it doesn't predominate where it occurs. There are a few bogs which have a high proportion of anthocyanin-lacking plants. But the number of red-flowered plants is also high, and plus or minus equal in number to the white-flowered forms. (this is just a very general count based a couple bogs which may actually be the same bog system.) What I find interesting is that the red-flowered plants growing in these bogs have very little red pigment in their leaves. This suggest that ALL the Sarracenia in these bogs have reduced anthocyanin production. I have never seen white-flowered S. purpurea in a population of "normal" red-flowered plants. I bet this can happen, but perhaps as a result of different genetic controls than exhibited in the bogs I've seen. I should point out though that my observed sample size is small, and perhaps one! ;-) As for the advantage of lacking anthocyanin? I don't think there needs to be an advantage. It only needs to have no disadvantage. It fact, the variant condition probably needs only be NOT lethal for the plants to survive! The plants might not even be pollinated and may not set seed... if more white-flowered plants are spontaneously produced from red-flowered parents (heterozygotes?), then white-flowered individuals will be found. Michael Chamberland ################### From: "Haakan Murevaern" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:50:17 +0100 Subject: SV: D. petiolaris complex photos / D. neocaledonica Hello Jens! > >The _Drosera petiolaris_ I have are not exactly like these. Mine have a > >more flat petitole and not so pubescent. > > > Could it be that your plant is D. dilatato-petiolaris ? > Did you grow it from seed ? I did not grow it from seed. I have bought it from Nature et Paysages under the name _D.petiolaris_. They also sell D. dilatato-petiolaris. Best regards Haakan Murevaern See my Carnivorous Plants at http://www.algonet.se/~murevarn ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:39:10 -0000 Subject: d.petiolaris could anybody also advice me on how to grow D Petiolaris from seeds? and the requirements there after, Thanks in advance. Ernest. ################### From: saharris@iafrica.com (Eric Green) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 19:01:57 GMT Subject: North eastern South Africa fieldwork Greetings all, Robert Gibson here. I have just return from an interesting few days in north eastern South Africa where, thanks to Dot and Mark Cappaert and Lis Rodriqus, I had the pleasure of seeing some native carnivorous plants in the wild. Drosera madagascariensis var. major. This robust, green form of D. madagascariensis was seen at two spring heads around Pretoria. They grow gregariuosly in stretches of open water and water covered rock. Some plants were submerged and were anchored very poorly to the thin soil. Drosera burkeana. Seen at one site where it grew in abundance. It looks very like D. rotundifolia. Utricularia gibba. Formed a green mat, and living mulch in shallow, slow moving water over sandy soil. Utricularia bisqamata. Abundant at both sites near Pretoria. The scapes grow to 30 cm tall amongst sedges. The flowers have a purple brown colour to the free edge of the lower lip. A cleistogamous form was also found at one site but was not common. Utricularia livida. Found at one site in the northern Drakensburg. Scapes, to 5cm tall, with up to 3 flowers. Generally hidden by sedges. Many promising sites were also seen but they will need to wait until my next visit to South Africa. For more information on plants in this area I suggest you contact Dot Cappaert, Secretary of the South African Carnvorous Plant Society, PO Box 1378, Krugersdorp, 1740. South Africa. Kruger National Park is certainly worth a visit if you are in the area. Cheers and great cp growing, Robert ################### From: "Marcelo Andre' Karklin Fontana" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:43:52 -0200 Subject: Source for peat moss Fellow CPers, Does anyone knows of a commercial suplier that sells peat moss and perlite (or at least peat moss) worlwide and doesn't requires those huge minimum orders ? Thanks in advance (and sorry if this is an off-topic message). Marcelo Andre' Karklin Fontana makf@unisys.com.br ____________________________________________________________ Carnivorous Plants - http://www.mcef.ep.usp.br/carnivoras/ ################### From: Ross.Rowe@ea.gov.au (Ross Rowe) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:22:20 +1000 Subject: Re[2]: D. binata germination I have not really checked it out systematically, but I wonder if warm soil temperatures are more important. My observations are that fresh seed will germinate soon after falling and stored seed will germinate without specific stratification treatment. Compare with the infamous D. capensis! Ross Canberra ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: L235 at Internet Peter Lowden asked about D. binata germination times: I found that D. binata seed I planted from New Zealand (thanks, Len!) last year germinated fairly quickly (perhaps a bit slower than you reported ... a week and a half or so for the first sprouts), so it's apparently not unheard of. Since then they have been VERY slow growing, but that's another issue. Jay Lechtman (L235@aol.com) Reston, Virginia, USA ################### From: CALIFCARN Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:28:51 EST Subject: This so-called "N. maxima" Howdy, folks, Peter D'Amato here. Trent's message caught my attention, about this new mass produced Nepenthes marked "maxima". By the way, Trent, I'd rather be in southern Florida than dank northern california this winter, maybe sometime you'll invite me down to visit! A friend gave me a big pot of a plant he got from Florida, and it was tagged N. maxima 'superba'. Is this the same one you're talking about? While healthy, the plant was obviously grown in low light conditions, and the pitchers not well developed, but it's obviously not maxima, and I won't be able to guess until it repitchers in my conditions. (I also transplanted it from the dense peat mix it was in). Anyway, if you figure out what this thing is, I'd be interested in knowing. On a similar subject, has anyone found out what this N. "hybride" is, this Holland produced mass marketed Nepenthes? Mike Ross told me last summer that when he visits the place in Holland where this plant is produced, he'll try and find out its heritage. I'm rather impressed with it. Another friend, Curtis, picked one up last spring and gave it to me when it was a feeble rosette barely four inches across. It's now large with six inch pitchers, and actually looks like it may be similar to this N. maxima 'superba'. I truely agree with the comments of others who wished these wholesalers would at least have the foresight and courtesy to put real names of their plants on these mass-produced Nepenthes. Th-th-th-th that's all folks. ################### From: AL850R Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:24:02 -0800 Subject: Nepennthes Ampullaria Hi CP lovers, My Nepenthes Ampullaria that I received is beginning to wilt, any information? I sprayed it with dilluted SUPERTHRIVE about 10 times. I use reverse-osmosis water and humidity 84%. The temperture I keep it in ranges about 92*F in morning/afternoon tops, and night lowest 65*F. Any suggestions? My freind that specializes in Nepenthes is not available at UCBerkeley. I can't seem to get a hold of him, so I'm asking u guys!!! -Thanks- ################### From: "the drake" Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:50:02 -0700 Subject: Cambrian Carnivores - I made contact! and apology I received a letter and my money order returned to me by Cambrian Carnivores in the mail a few days ago. My order had gotten delayed by the postal service during the Christmass rush, and was not delivered to Cambrian Carnivores until recently. Since my money order was in US dollars, it could not be processed by Cambrian Carnivores, so everything worked out well since I was not sure when I sent it if they would be able to cash it and also wanted to change my order after I had sent it. I apologize for any showing of frustration in my postings asking how to contact Cambrian Carnivores. Having ordered from them in the past and been pleased, I was mostly worried that it was a problem with the postal service, and did not know about the recent email problems that Cambrian Carnivores had been having (which is why I had not received replies to my emails to them). Peter Cole, the owner of Cambrian Carnivores, sent me a very nice letter with my money order, and I appreciate his quick reply soon after receiving the postal-service-delayed order that I sent. Thank you! :) Drakeofusa@mailexcite.com Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com ################### From: RSbra123 Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 01:49:01 EST Subject: H. nutans problem I have something growing(?) on some of the juvenile pitchers of my H. nutans. It's a brown scum-looking coating that I've seen to a small extent since I've had the plants, about 2 years now. It's getting worse on one plant. I've tried spraying with Orthenex a few times and it *seemed* to help a little but didn't stop it. I sprayed it once with Benomyl once with no effect. I have photos of two plants at http://members.aol.com/RSbra123/cp.html . If anyone can identify it I'd appreciate being told what it is and how to get rid of it. Or, what sort of laboratory could I bring it to for analysis? Thanks. Ron Sbragia ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean De Witte) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:33:01 +0100 Subject: rare nepenthes Re rare nepenthes Looks like our bigmouth Volvo850 has changed names but forgot to change his ID. Would like to see a CITES (if he knows what that is) from him re his rajahs and co. Further, for somebody spitting at other peoples prices, wouldn't hurt to look in the mirror. Harley rules! Jean De Witte mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de home:http://home.t-online.de/home/j.dewitte ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:14:33 +0100 Subject: Byblis stratification ? Hi List I've received some Byblis seeds (hi Kenneth !). It's Byblis liniflora and I'd like to know if they are requiring any kind of stratification, and if a 'cooking time' is necessary as for B. gigantea. Laurent in Belgium Web site at http://www.dvddd.com/CP ################### From: "kamikaze" <011114@hillstrath.on.ca> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:42:20 -0400 Subject: VFT germination Dear list, This year I bought a VFT in late December and did not put in into formancy. Instead I placed it in a heated terrarium. The VFT is now flowering....I want to harvest seed at the end of the season....do I need another VFT to pollinate the plant or should I just leave it alone? adwait ################### From: Thomas Nowell Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:13:15 -0500 Subject: Re: VFT germination At 10:57 AM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote: >Dear list, > >This year I bought a VFT in late December and did not put in into >formancy. Instead I placed it in a heated terrarium. The VFT is now >flowering....I want to harvest seed at the end of the season....do I >need another VFT to pollinate the plant or should I just leave it >alone? > >adwait > I have one flowering now too. Please answer to the list. Thanks. Thomas Nowell Malden, MA USA ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:27:41 PST Subject: Re: Ants in my Nepenthes Charles wrote: >Ants are sometimes given a bad rap. It's true that they can carry >aphids and scales to plants, but they are also a very good source of >food for some CP plants like the S. Minor and Cephalotus and some >Nephs. I agree that the plants can all benefit from a steady supply of ants, but is it a good idea to have a colony of ants nesting in your pots? Having had infestations of scale and mealy bug in the past, I'm not about to let a potential source for the pests near any of my plants. If left alone, these pests will quickly spread to adjacent plants and eventually kill them. I'll go to the pet shop and buy a bunch of crickets, instead of feeding with ants. I've seen your growlist Charles, you have many rare and one-of-a-kind plants. Are you saying that if a colony of ants wanted to call one of your pots "home," you wouldn't take exception? I still say, "prevention is best, kill the ants!" All the best, Stefan ################### From: iwilliams@dist.gov.au (Ian Williams) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:26:24 +1000 Subject: Pollination and germination of VFT seeds It is wonderful to be able to respond to a question to which I know the answer. During our last southern Spring October, I allowed about 5 of my VFTs to develop flowers. I was careful to cross fertilise the plants which were from different sources. I thne allowed the flower pods to mature and then after they had gone black, I obtained about 150 seeds (i didnt count to find the precise number). No stratification is required (see Ross Rowe's recent posting on this issue). I then sowed the seeds in my glass house onto peat moss contained in brocholi boxes (polystyrene boxes) and germination was achieved between 4-6 weeks later (I was away during the time the seeds came up). I now have about 70 - 80 healthy VFT seedlings about 1 cm in diameter. A few extra stragglers have also appeared steadily as well. if you have specific varieties of VFT eg Royal red, I recommend you obtain extra plants through leaf cuttings. Ian Williams Canberra, Australia ################### From: "Andy Falshaw" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:01:13 GMT+1200 Subject: bugs, pygmies Hi folks. I have some little bugs crawling round in some of my pots. They are 2-3mm long, and <1mm wide. They are very shiny, they look silver, but not like silverfish, more like wing cases of little flies. Are these the dreaded fungus gnats?? If so, what damage do they do, and what should I do to be rid of them?? My d. scorpiodes are putting out what look like aerial roots. They are red, coming off the stems, and where they hit soil they are going in. Anyone seen this before? Two other lots of pygmies are just finishing flowering - should I cut off the dead flowers? Will I get viable seed? Are they likely to have cross pollinated, being sat next to each other, so I'll get nitidulaxallontostigmataxpulchella? Andy ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:16:42 PST Subject: re: Heliamphora rot hi there, your heliamphora rot sounds (and looks) like something that effected my heterodoxas shortly after i got them way back in the 1980s :) i believe it was joe mazrimas who suggested i pull them out of their pots and soak the entire plants, roots and all, for several hours(???) in a water and fungicide mix. i just got back into CP after several years so could be wrong but i think the fungicide was benomyl. thats a fungicide, right? that of course was my only experience using fungicide, id never had any other problems. just be careful when you move the plant - make sure you exercise extreme caution so you dont break any roots or pitchers as theyre VERY fragile. good luck! matt ps. i'm still looking for some small heliamphora species or hybrids. anyone have any extras?? ################### From: "Capestany" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:38:52 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes pitcher questions Somewhere I read that if you take a cutting from the top of a Nep with upper pitchers, the resulting plant will never produce lower pitchers... does anybody know if this is true? I was also wondering if there is any way to get older and taller Nepenthes to start producing lower pitchers again, since I don't find the upper pitchers very attractive :-) Thanks for any suggestions! dr.cap Alexandria Virginia, USA ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:12:17 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes pitcher questions > Somewhere I read that if you take a cutting from the top of a Nep with upper > pitchers, the resulting plant will never produce lower pitchers... does > anybody know if this is true? I was also wondering if there is any way to > get older and taller Nepenthes to start producing lower pitchers again.. I have found that apical cuttings of Nepenthes (upper growth with upper pitchers) often keep producing upper growth when they start growing vines from the dormant buds. Once this upper growth has become well established with a good root system, it often produces a basal growth from the crown. The basal growth produces lower pitchers. One way to encourage basal growth is to allow Nepenthes vines to hang over the edge of the pot so that the growth tip is below the root level. This technique has worked for many of my plants, encouraging them to produce new basal shoots. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:17:01 -0500 Subject: A lighting survey To all Nepenthes growers, How about a quick survey? 1. What type of lights do you use to grow neps in? 2. Photoperiod? 3. Lighting output used for highlanders/ lowlanders? 4. Any past results from various lighting experiments? Please post any and all results to this list. Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: Bruce R Salmon Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:46:18 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Rare Nepenthes >Re rare nepenthes >Looks like our bigmouth Volvo850 has changed names but forgot to change his >ID. >Would like to see a CITES (if he knows what that is) from him re his rajahs >and co. Further, for somebody spitting at other peoples prices, wouldn't >hurt to look in the mirror. >Harley rules! > >Jean De Witte >mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de >home:http://home.t-online.de/home/j.dewitte I would also like to know where they get plants like N. dubia and N. aristolochioides! Sounds like a scam to me. Bruce 13 Rothery Road Manurewa Auckland New Zealand ################### From: Bruce R Salmon Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:47:07 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: RECIPIENTS CP 13 Rothery Road Manurewa Auckland New Zealand ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:41:24 -0500 Subject: Re:Ants in the kitchen >What species of Nepenthes have you used. Could you tell? Hello Danny, Trent here in the office. The most successful Nepenthes as far as catching insects, for me here in south Florida, is N. alata. Since I have several different varieties of alata, and all are prolific growers and pitcher producers, it is the plant I used in the kitchen. The particular plant I used came from Bruce Bednar, and he got it from the University of Washington (pacific Northwest, not the U.S. capitol). Even though it is a highlander, it has no problem with the terrible summer heat of south Florida. Ants love it. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:15:44 -0500 Subject: Re:so called N. maxima Hey Peter! Trent once again at Richard's place, "borrowing" the WWW. We're supposed to be working on a new story, but sometimes there are, well, diversions. So. You seem to have one of these N. "maxima" plants. Mine has nice large pitchers that are most definitely not maxima. I have three different varieties of maxima now, and have seen about a zillion pictures. The peristome, neck, and lid are all wrong. More like a mirabilis. The red tessellations on the pitcher are maxima-like. So far, I have only seen lower pitchers, averaging about five inches in length. It is a handsome, vigorous Nepenthes hybrid. Jean DeWitte also made comment about giving some seed of N. maxima to DeRoose, but I doubt if this plant came from that seed. So far, I haven't raised this "mystery maxima" during the summer, and that will tell me if it is in any way highland in nature. Right now , I'm experiencing 60 degree F nights and 85 degree F days with humidity between 60 and 80 percent. No heaters, evaporative pads, auto misters. Al naturale...All Nepenthes are happy. Hope your friend's visit to Europe answers some questions. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida. ################### From: "Judy Clark" Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:13:17 -0500 Subject: Propagation of Mexician PINGS Hello all With the onset of colder weather and lower light levels its time to propagate the Mexician Pinguiculas . First of all you will have noticed that they srank down three or four inches .This is there winter rosetts or resting buds. Besides removing plants that have clumped up into seperate pots I grow them in shallow flats so I can have more room to grow a entire season without having to be moved again.First dig up the ping carefully (the roots are very fragile) I use a pencil or like object next you carefully break off the lower leaves with a downward motion lay them top side up in a 8" pot at random over the soil surface . Do NOT bury them they will rot very fast . Put them in the best light available and around 60 to70 degrees .In about two weeks you see small plantlets growing from the ends .At theend of the first year they will be about as big as a US half dollar.It takes two years to become adult plant and the cycle becomes complete and you can do it all over again . They do respond to fertlizer very well. Mist sprayed with Miracid ect. one half tablespoon per gallon mist about every two weeks while actively growing.The soil mix I use is 2 parts vermiculite 1part peat moss .I might add ,the adult plants sould be barely moist during this winter growth period. These are wonderful litte plants that if you have alot of them will be in FLOWER all year long.They always bring a smile to my poor face in the dead of winter when everythang else is asleep. David Crump@Carolina Carnivorous Gardens....... ################### From: Gordon Wells Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:22:48 +0100 Subject: Nepenthes labelling by wholesalers Hi, On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Peter D'Amato wrote: > I truely agree with the comments of others who wished these > wholesalers would at least have the foresight and courtesy to > put real names of their plants on these mass-produced Nepenthes. I visited a large CP wholesaler in Holland recently who supplies a major part of the CP imported to Spain. Their Nepenthes are typically labelled as "Hybride", or "Maxima", or "Alata". When I asked why they didn't use more specific (and accurate) labels, they said it was because it simply costs too much to have 10 or 15 different labels printed, so they just make 3 or 4. Although they usually know the heritage of most of the varieties they produce, if none of the specific labels fits a particular plant, they just put a "Hybride" label on it and away it goes. After all, the vast majority of their buyers couldn't care less about the exact species name. Gordon ----------------------------------------------------- Gordon Wells Instituto de Robotica e Informatica Industrial Edificio Nexus, planta 2 Gran Capitan 2-4 Tel: (343) 401-5805 Barcelona E-08034 Fax: (343) 401-5750 SPAIN e-mail: gwells@iri.upc.es ----------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:11:37 -0800 Subject: Ants in your pants Dear List members Nepenthes love to eat ants. So if there are ants crawling into your pitchers rejoice. They won't leave. But if they are building a nest in your potting mix they will probably physically damage the roots. Repot the plant. (80% live sphagnum 20% peat in a wick fed self watering pot.) Don't bother with dead sphagnum. Nepenthes are tough and provided that they are rested in the shade for a few days and introduced to 50% to full sun over a week or so, as you would with any plant, no problems. If you are growing indoors under weak lights do not worry about reducing the light. If under really bright lights (400 to 1000W plus high pressure discharge lamp or similar) move them back under full light over 3 days to a week. Regards Denis Daly ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:24:14 -0800 Subject: Byblis liniflora Hi list Byblis liniflora is a annual. You must pollinate between flowers by using a small brush. Unless the seeds are soaked in gibberellic acid (GA3) germination will be very poor or could take up to 12 months. Use 100 g/L strength GA 3. Take 0.2 mL and top up to 20 mL water. Soak seeds for 24 hours. Sow on top of seed raising mix. (Fine sand peat.) Water tray. Humid atmosphere but wit air movement. Prick seedlings out, sow into coarse sand 75% and peat 25%. Stand in water tray. Do not use sphagnum on this CP. I got heaps up this way a few years ago from one plant that arose from one untreated seed that itself took 12 months to germinate. (The remaining thousand or so untreated seeds never germinated.) And then disaster struck:- I gave them away except one plant. It got eaten off at the base. Now I don't have Byblis liniflora. Forget the fire, forget the smoke use gibberellic acid. Same applies for B. gigantea. Regards Denis Daly ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:38:04 -0800 Subject: N. amphularia and Superthrive Ron Sbragia Dear Ron Bad news, I'm afraid. Hormones should only be given to plants in minute quantities on infrequent occasions or they will kill the plant. If it was OK before you applied lots of superthrive then the problem could be too much superthrive. (Another reason why it is important to know exactly what is in superthrive.) One of the reasons I hesitate to use it besides the expensive> I don't know what's in it. But I use auxins on Nepenthes. However if it went crook soon after you got it then it may be either: 1) A plant that has not been properly rooted after it came out of tissue culture. 2) A cutting that has not been allowed to form sufficient roots. See my article on Buyer Beware under another cover. 3) The stem has rotted off. Only solution is to take it out of the pot and look at the roots, feel the stem to see if any section feels hollow (not in a green section of stem) to confirm this. Take cuttings immediately. Place cuttings in water until turgor returns. Put water in pitchers if they are empty. Slit base of cutting, apply IBA (idole 3 butyric acid. It is an auxin.) in a gel, leave dry (several hours ... cutting will wilt again), place in water again for a week to let callus form, then place cutting into perlite in a wick type self watering pot to strike. High humidity over green cutting helps. To reduce leaf surface on the cutting cut out the sides of the leaf but leave the mid rib and pitcher in place. Put water in pitcher. In sydney with a water conductivity of around 180 micro siemens per cm I would use tap water. But I do not know anything about your water and so reverse osmosis water is probably needed. Regards Denis Daly ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:25:35 -0800 Subject: Dionaea Flowers "kamikaze" and all Dionaea pollen in any one flower does not "ripen" at the same ime as the stigma in that flower is receptive. Once a day take a brush and rub it in each open flower. Cycle around all open flowers twice. Trying to bend the scape will surly break it. Thus two plants are often used as one pot can be put on theground and the other moved so as to rub flower into flower. But it is nit necessary to have two plants. Regards Denis Daly ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:39:30 -0500 (EST) Subject: nitidulaxallontostigmataxpulchella On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Andy Falshaw wrote: > Hi folks. > [ stuff deleted ] > Are they likely to > have cross pollinated, being sat next to each other, so I'll get > nitidulaxallontostigmataxpulchella? > > Andy Whoa! Take it easy Andy. You might have just started a new thread to construct the newest, biggest, most unpronounceable, etc, hybrid name in all of CPdom. ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:11:18 PST Subject: Has anyone else received the seed I sent? Hi folks, I'd appreciate it if everyone who has received seed from me let me know that it's arrived. Thanks! Matt ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:53:48 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Ants in my Nepenthes A man after my own heart, Actually, I agree with you 100%. Although I am not able to carefully check each plant daily, I have noticed that some of my harder-to-fed plants had acquired a pitcher full of ants. I feel regardless how careful you pick your outside spots to grow CPs in, Ants and ether pesky insects will always find their way to them. I just wish ants did not bring their cattle(Aphids and Scales) with them. By-the-way, the only plants that I found ants, spider mites, aphids and mealy bugs on were the plants that I'm keeping for you. For some reason, my plants are clean as a whistle:)...All kidding aside, This spring, I do plan to experiment with feeding Cephalotuses ants. I understand Cephs feed well on ants. Charles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles wrote: I've seen your growlist Charles, you have many rare and one-of-a-kind plants. Are you saying that if a colony of ants wanted to call one of your pots "home," you wouldn't take exception? I still say, "prevention is best, kill the ants!" All the best, Stefan ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:23:19 GMT Subject: Flowering VFT... Group, Got a quick question... One of my VFT's is starting to send up a flower stalk now and I'm in debate whether to allow it to grow and flower with = the possibility of acquiring more seed in the long run, or rather snip it to allow better trap development... I'm torn because I've yet to see a VFT flowering and since this is my first time (only 2 months into CP's!) it's really exciting to see results of my labor these past 2 months... I guess I'm doing something right ;) Just looking for pro's and con's about the issue... I have 12 other = VFT's in the same terrarium but only one (the oldest) is showing the flower stalk... If those of you who say 'Snip It!' could you please tell me = when.. I"ve read ASAP or maybe after a certain height... thanks for the info up front...=20 BTW: David Mellard... The money for seed is in the mail!... =3D) ... Richard=20 ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:38:36 -0700 Subject: Re: Nepenthes labelling by wholesalers Gordon Wells wrtoe: >Although they usually know the heritage of most of the >varieties they produce, if none of the specific labels fits >a particular plant, they just put a "Hybride" label on it >and away it goes. After all, the vast majority of their >buyers couldn't care less about the exact species >name. This sounds quite believable to me. I guess I'm glad they are at least labelling it as a hybrid. The Drosera I have seen for sale (in those pots with the domes) are ALWAYS labelled D. rotundifolia. The company (Gruber's I think?) has been using the same label since at least the 70's when I got into this hobby. So far I have seen D. capensis, D. adelae, D. spathulata, and D. capillaris in those pots but NEVER D. rotundifolia. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:37:39 -0000 Subject: Nepenthes Madagascariensis available for trade, numerous plants Dear subscribers of the CP list, A local nursery has recently gotten a fresh shipment of the-recently-heavily-discussed-on-the-list Nepenthes Madagascariensis. In the past I have bought one of their last remaining Nepenthes Madagascariensis, and if the new shipment is like the old one, the plants are nearly a foot tall, some with 2 or 3 shorter plants growing from the same base as the larger one, for only $4.95 US. As money is sort of limited right now, and since I already have one of their Nepenthes Madagascariensis, I was not going to purchase any. However, if anybody out there has any of the more rare Nepenthes or possibly Heliamphora, I might be interested in purchasing one of the Nepenthes Madagascariensis to trade to you if you would like one (provided that the ones that the nursery just got are the same as the ones that they had before for that price, of course). Since I have recently been spending quite alot of money on my collection, I can really only buy the Nepenthes Madagascariensis to trade for something that is rare and irrestible to pass up. They also told me that they have some for $14.95, and these may be quite large if the one foot tall ones are still $4.95. If you would like to buy one instead of trade, I suppose I can act as a non-profit middleman and send you one if you agree to pay for the plant and the shipping and handling (I will include the receipt for the plant to assure you of my honesty). All of this is only possible if when I go to the nursery the plants are healthy, of course. I MIGHT (and that is a very big might!) be able to get a picture of the plants if people are really interested. Let me know what you think. Sincerely, Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:40:21 +0000 Subject: Re: Byblis liniflora Hi all, > >Unless the seeds are soaked in gibberellic acid (GA3) germination >will be very poor or could take up to 12 months. > >Use 100 g/L strength GA 3. Take 0.2 mL and top up to 20 mL water. >Soak seeds for 24 hours. >Sow on top of seed raising mix. (Fine sand peat.) Water tray. >Humid atmosphere but wit air movement. Prick seedlings out, sow >into coarse sand 75% and peat 25%. Stand in water tray. Do not use >sphagnum on this CP. > While using gibberellic acid for germination of B. gigantea is well known I have never heard of anyone using to germinate B. liniflora and I suspect your seeds germinated in spite of the treatment not because of it. I have found the best method to germinate B. liniflora seed is to pace it in a terrarium and turn the heat up to full. You need about 100% humidity and a temperature of around 40C (about 100f I think). Under these conditions the seed will germinate very quickly - I have had seed germinate in five days. Once germination has been acheived I gradually reduce the temperature to something slightly less tropical, say 25-30C but still keep the humidity well up. I find the small seedlings incredibly slow at first but as they get bigger they rapidly pick up pace. Once the plants to about 2-3 inches they are big enough and the weather is warm enough to transfer them to normal greenhouse conditions. In the UK the trick is to get the plants growing early enough to flower and set seed before the end of summer. This means in practice sowing the seeds in late January/early Feb. Any earlier and the light levels are not enough to get the plant growing well. To get seed I find I need to have the plant in flower by mid-late June. In B. liniflora ssp liniflora the pollen is readily produced and can be transfered to the stigma by a small paint brush or cocktail stick. However, the larger growing ssp occidentalis will only release pollen when touched with a tuning fork or something similar. In this respect the flower structure is similar to B. gigantea. I also find that plants set seed more reliably when cross pollinated rather than selfed. Seed will also germinate in normal greenhouse conditions but definitely takes longer. In fact I had plants for several years which were growing weed-like in other pots. For soil I use a standard 3:1 peat and sand mix. You can also get away with small pots (3" size are ideal) as the plants do not appear to have a very large root system. Hope this helps. -- Phil Wilson ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 19:15 EST Subject: Re: Byblis liniflora Dear Denis, > Byblis liniflora is a annual. You must pollinate between flowers > by using a small brush. So far I've had these plants for less than a year, but I haven't had to pollinate the flowers myself and they are indoors, away from drafts and pollinators, producing lots of seed. > Unless the seeds are soaked in gibberellic acid (GA3) germination > will be very poor or could take up to 12 months. My plants are from seed from ICPS. They came up in two weeks without any treatment... > I got heaps up this way a few years ago from one plant that arose > from one untreated seed that itself took 12 months to germinate. > (The remaining thousand or so untreated seeds never germinated.) Perhaps there is more than one type B.liniflora?/? > And then disaster struck:- I gave them away except one plant. It > got eaten off at the base. Now I don't have Byblis liniflora. Well, when the seeds ripen I'll send some into the ICPS seed bank, or other seed banks. Probably keep some for trades too. Dave Evans ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:01:18 -0000 Subject: Superthrive - False advertising? Superthrive - False advertising? While I will not confirm or dispute the effectiveness of Superthrive, I do wonder how the company avoids false advertising lawsuits and/or penalties. The label claims that 50 hormones are in Superthrive, yet only one, NAA, is actually listed as an ingredient. This hormone does indeed promote growth in plants. I do not think that there even are 50 plant hormones, and if there are, I doubt I have ever seen a list of 50 hormones that are applied to plants to enhance growth. Does anybody know what the mystery 49 hormones are? Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 06:06:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Superthrive - False advertising? >Superthrive - False advertising? > > While I will not confirm or dispute the effectiveness of Superthrive, I >do wonder how the company avoids false advertising lawsuits and/or >penalties. > The label claims that 50 hormones are in Superthrive, yet only one, >NAA, is actually listed as an ingredient. > This hormone does indeed promote growth in plants. I do not think that >there even are 50 plant hormones, and if there are, I doubt I have ever seen >a list of 50 hormones that are applied to plants to enhance growth. > Does anybody know what the mystery 49 hormones are? > >Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net Perhaps you should check with the Olympic drug screening committee to see if any Chinese Nep. growers are using Superthrive. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: KILSMOOTH Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:40:32 EST Subject: El Ninio,and CP dormancy Hello list!! Bri here...Well,El Ninio is really screwing things up here in good old Fl.All of my US. Pings are prolifically flowering....about 3 mos. too early!!Also,all of my Spring blooming orchids are blooming...Interesting...I've managed to keep the Sarrs dormant by keeping them in full shade and keeping the soil drier..I know they have,nt had nearly enough rest yet...I have lots of S."alba" forms and i'm afraid of them flowering one day,and freezing the next....Neps are loving it !! All of the Highlanders and hybrids of highland parentage seem to love the drastic temp. changes,of course.....Any other growers having this problem??? Enjoy CP! Brian in Fl. . P.S. I'll have some fresh P.ionantha and P.Lutea......and P.planifolia seed for trade soon....Any good Drosera seed going around??Let me know...Bri :) ################### From: Ken Skau Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:00:05 -0500 Subject: B. liniflora I have grown Byblis linaflora for over 10 years and have never used gibberellic acid or any other artificial means of germinating the seeds. I sow the seeds on top of peat in the early spring (early April in Cincinnati, Ohio) and keep them evenly moist. I have never determined the germination rate because I get such masses of plants that it is difficult to count them all. Some of them are probably from seeds that have dropped to the medium from the past year's plants. The seeds will sprout as the peat warms and takes only a couple of weeks. The plant is an annual and will produce lilac flowers in the late summer. The flowers may be cross-fertilized, self-fertilized or just left alone and they will produce copious amounts of seed. This past year I was harvesting seeds into December, but we had a mild Autumn that allowed the plants to survive longer than they normally would. Kind Regards, Ken Skau ################### From: "Haakan Murevaern" Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:13:05 +0100 Subject: Re: VFT germination Hello list! If you want seed from your VFT. You must pollinate the VFT but could use a flower from the same plant. I dont know if you could use the same flower. Best regards Haakan Murevaern See my Carnivorous Plants at http://www.algonet.se/~murevarn ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:18:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: sand and Byblis I have two questions: 1) In the Tampa, FL area, does anyone have any suggestions on where to get silica sand? I've tried hardware stores, garden stores, plant nurseries and even a hydroponics shop that a nursery guy recommended and nobody has it and nobody knows where to get it. 2) There has been a lot of talk about Byblis linearis on the list the past couple of days. I recently received some B.gigantea seed from the ICPS seedbank - do the same techniques hold for this species or is it an entirely different beastie? Also, unrelated, the Tampa Bay Carnivorous Plant Club is now online! Check out www.tbcpc.org! It's still in its infancy, but it will soon be a force to be reckoned with! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:27:38 PST Subject: Dormancy and Stratification of CPs Hello Cpers Becuase of the recent mild weather patterns in central North Carolina I have some concerns with my not so dormant CP. First of all none of my plants have gone into dormancy except my Drosera Capensis. I need to know the dormancy requirements (especially temperature) for the following plants: \225Dioneaea Muscipula \225Sarracenia Leocophyllia \225Pinguilica (uknown species) \225Sarracenia Purrpera \225Drosera Capensis I also have some drosera seed (probably rotundifolia) that I don't know how to stratify. Thanks Justin T. Arthur Chapel Hill, NC 27514 United States Of America P.S. Thanks to those who have sent replies to my e-mails in the past. ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:18:40 -0700 Subject: Re: sand and Byblis Derek Glidden writes: >1) In the Tampa, FL area, does anyone have any suggestions >on where to get silica sand? I've tried hardware stores, >garden stores, plant nurseries and even a hydroponics shop >that a nursery guy recommended and nobody has it and >nobody knows where to get it. Around here you can get it at Home Depot which I believe is a national chain. >2) There has been a lot of talk about Byblis linearis on the >list the past couple of days. I recently received some >B.gigantea seed from the ICPSseedbank - do the same >techniques hold for this species or is it an entirely different >beastie? I think this is an entirely different beastie. Check out Brian Cochran's article in CPN volume 24, #1, p. 6 "My Experiences in Growing Byblis gigantea from Seed" Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: "Bernadette Png" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:42:09 +0800 Subject: Hello! Hello everyone, I've just subscribed to the CP list, and would like to say HI to everyone on the list. Yesterday I bought my very first VFT at a dept. store. I'm so excited, but I have to say I'm totally GREEN when it comes to plants. Today my bro and I put a couple of ants on the fly trap. The ants just took a stroll along the triggers and then walked away. One even walked into the flytrap, but escaped unharmed. The leaves didn't even move, or close. What could be the problem? I'm learning as I go along, and hope that I can have a meaningful relationship with my VFT. Regards, Bernie -- Bernadette Png Ginny (Bull Terrier) Pokie (VFT) hoglet@cyberway.com.sg http://www.cyberway.com.sg/~hoglet Singapore ################### From: buckman@interaccess.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:48:04 -0600 (CST) XSubject: Hello! Hi , recently andrew posted a list of nepenthes addressldl68888@pacbell.net, this address does not work if your out there, please contact me.Tom.buckman@interaccess.com ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:55:05 -0500 Subject: Where to find silica sand Derek, In reference to your question about silica sand- try the following. Look in the yellow pages under building materials. The garden store up here in Cleveland gets their shipment from a wholesale supply place that stocks brick, sand, concrete, etc. I buy them in 50-pound bags for $3.95. Silica sand is used for sandblasting, so I guess you could also try that title in the phone book as well. The stuff I have is coarse and slightly damp while in the sealed bag. Be careful if you find the dry, small grained variety. The dust can cause lung damage if not handled properly. Mark Pogany markp@crscms.com ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:05:46 -0500 Subject: D. linearis help I have recently received some Drosera linearis seed. Right now its stratify'in away in the fridge. This plant grows in alkaline conditions. For those on the list that cultivate this species I have some questions: 1. What media do you use for this plant? Should I mix in some hydrated lime to boost the pH? 2. Should I treat it like D. rotundifolia (temps, light, media wetness)? 3. Any other special techniques that I should know about? Thanks for any replies! Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: Tony Camilleri Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:06:49 +0930 Subject: Nepenthes sex ? To all Nepenthes enthusiasts, a general question. Is anybody aware of a method to detect the sex of a Nepenthes plant before they flower? ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard T. Berg) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 03:32:43 GMT Subject: Advice Needed on New Plants... List, I've been doing my homework on CP's and I feel I'm ready to take the plunge into a new plant... I've been growing some VFT's for 2 months and it's been great but as you all well know the need for something new is overwhelming... Any recommendations on a second plant type?... I was thinking something in the Drosera family... I would really like to get into the 'pitcher' family and have some seed on the way... Is there really a deemed 'Second Plant' that would be suitable... As of now I have limited space but will soon be purchasing a larger (55 gallon) terrarium to house all my CP's from now on... Please let me know either via email or the list! Thanks ONCE Again! ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: esikes@anet-dfw.com Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:47:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: Home Bussiness We understand that you are interested in, or are already involved in marketing. We are searching for people to get into the highest paying plan in the world. Contact me for all the details. I have 28yrs. in the business world. 1-(972) 557-0955 Ed Sikes You may also visit my website at: http://www.admaxsilver.com/sikes/ **(( You have recieved this message because you have visited one of our **business opportunity sites in the past. If you have recieved this message in error or simply wish to be removed from our list please reply with the word "remove" in the subject header. We apologize for any inconvience if we have sent this to you in error.))** ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:08:08 -0500 (EST) Subject: Cool hydroponics store I'm sure there are plenty of places like this, but this weekend, while combing the area for plant supplies, I ran across a cool store called "Worm's Way" that deals in Hydroponics and Home Brewing supplies. (What a combination.) Among other really cool stuff, they have HID lighting systems, moving track lighting, really cool self-watering planters, Superthrive and a plethora of natural and chemical pest control stuff. Their catalogue says, "With Retail Stores in Indiana, Florida, Massachusetts and Missouri!" The Tampa, FL store is on 56th street, just south of Hillsborough Ave. It was a neat place to visit and I fully intend to go back and indulge myself on a couple of expensive planters for my home some day soon. You can get them to send you a catalogue by calling 800-274-9676. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Bernadette Png" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:27:39 +0800 Subject: Repotting of VFT? Hello all, I would like to find out what is the appropriate pot size for a young VFT? Thanks. -- Bernadette Png parrotzfreak@usa.net http://www.cyberway.com.sg/~hoglet Ginny (Bull Terrier) Pokie (VFT) Singapore ################### From: ss66428 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:12:21 +0900 Subject: Re: Byblis liniflora To all, Only B.liniflora subsp.liniflora does not need to be hand pollinated and the seeds germinate well without any help. B.liniflora subsp.occidentalis, B.liniflora "Darwin" and B.gigantea, as far as I know, never produce seeds without the external help of an 'artificial polinator' in cultivation. Tuning forks and cross-polinization are commonly suggested. Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: bs Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:06:02 -0500 Subject: Madagascariensis and then some Several questions here: I also have an N. madagascariensis which I purchased about 6 months ago along with an N. sanguinea and N. mirabilis. The N. mad is doing well, producing larger leaves (5" long) and looks nice, but hasn't developed a new pitcher since I got it. In the same terrarium, the N. sang. is slower growing, but is producing pitchers, and the mirabilis is going crazy. I removed the plants from their original 2 1/2" pots to check the roots and was surprised. The roots of the N. mad (potted in a rather dense ball of sphagnum) were coiled around the bottom of the pot. The N. sang. roots, on the other hand, (which had a lighter soil - w/ some perlite, sand, and vermiculite I think) only went about an inch into the soil. The mirabilis had roots about out to the edges of it's pot (again, in the lighter soil mix) Is it time to repot any of these - Especially the N. mad? Has anyone else seen this kind of difference with regard to root development and soil type - or is it more likely a species difference? Any help is appreciated -- brandon http://oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu/personal/bschanba.html ################### From: "Tony D. Meadors" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 05:37:24 -0800 Subject: REMOVE -----Original Message----- To: Multiple recipients of list > >We understand that you are interested in, or are already involved in marketing. We are searching for >people to get into the highest paying plan in the world. Contact me for all the details. > I have 28yrs. in the business world. > >1-(972) 557-0955 >Ed Sikes > >You may also visit my website at: http://www.admaxsilver.com/sikes/ > >**(( You have recieved this message because you have visited one of our business opportunity sites >in the past. If you have recieved this message in error or simply wish to be removed from our list >please reply with the word "remove" in the subject header. We apologize for any inconvience if we >have sent this to you in error.))** > > ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:52:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Madagascariensis and then some Brandon wrote: > ....The roots of the N. mad (potted in a rather dense > ball of sphagnum) were coiled around the bottom of the pot. The N. > sang. roots, on the other hand, (which had a lighter soil - w/ some > perlite, sand, and vermiculite I think) only went about an inch into the > soil. The mirabilis had roots about out to the edges of it's pot > (again, in the lighter soil mix) > Is it time to repot any of these - Especially the N. mad? There are as many philosophies of repotting as there are hobbyists. Here are a few of my observations. First, I've had Nepenthes do okay for a couple of years when the potting medium was densely packed with roots. Might they have done better if they had been repotted sooner? I don't know. But repotting such a dense root ball is difficult if you have to remove the old potting media; removing the old media will involve breaking up that tight root ball and damage to the finer roots is unavoidable even when you're careful. Repotting is called for when the old potting media is going bad. Even when the media is still good, repotting is a good idea if the plant is sucking the media dry fairly quickly. This means that the plant is trying to grow; those roots are pulling as much water out of the (small) pot as they can, so you notice the media going dry sooner. > Has anyone else seen this kind of difference with regard to root > development and soil type - or is it more likely a species difference? Off hand I'd say it's a species difference. I keep all my neps in the same potting media. There are extreme differences in root production from one species (and hybrid) to the next. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:56:40 -0500 Subject: RE: Dormancy and Stratification of CPs > Becuase of the recent mild weather patterns in > central North Carolina I have some concerns with my > not so dormant CP. First of all none of my plants > have gone into dormancy except my Drosera Capensis. > I need to know the dormancy requirements (especially > temperature) for the following plants: > Dioneaea Muscipula > Sarracenia Leocophyllia > Pinguilica (uknown species) > Sarracenia Purrpera > Drosera Capensis Hi Justin, I'm in Durham, NC -- just up the road from you. I have all my Dionaea and Sarracenia (flava, minor & leuco) outside and they are most certainly in dormancy. On my way to work this morning I poked my finger at the sphagnum in the pot containing my S. leuco and it was frozen solid. Sphagnum gets kind of spiky when it is frozen this hard. The folks on the radio tell me it was 27 degrees. Where are you keeping your plants? I don't know much about Pings and Drosera but the others can certainly be kept outside during the winter in this area of the country. We are in the natural range for S. pupurea and almost within the range of Dionaea. I don't think they'd appreciate being thrust outside now because it would be a bit of a shock to them, but they need the cold in addition to reduced light levels to enter dormancy. Hope this helps, Phil URL du jour: http://www.squirrelnutzippers.com/ ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:18:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Cool hydroponics store In addition, they have a web site - go to: http://www.wormsway.com/ It is an interesting place to visit, although I've found that they are rather pricey. But they have a lot of plant oriented stuff in one place, so you don't have to go chasing around to find odds-n-ends. - Carl On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Derek Glidden wrote: > > I'm sure there are plenty of places like this, but this weekend, while > combing the area for plant supplies, I ran across a cool store called > "Worm's Way" that deals in Hydroponics and Home Brewing supplies. (What a > combination.) Among other really cool stuff, they have HID lighting > systems, moving track lighting, really cool self-watering planters, > Superthrive and a plethora of natural and chemical pest control stuff. > Their catalogue says, "With Retail Stores in Indiana, Florida, > Massachusetts and Missouri!" The Tampa, FL store is on 56th street, just > south of Hillsborough Ave. It was a neat place to visit and I fully > intend to go back and indulge myself on a couple of expensive planters for > my home some day soon. You can get them to send you a catalogue by > calling 800-274-9676. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com > Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site > Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing > Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) > > ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:13:00 -0500 Subject: FW: question Which brings us back to genetics..... >Talking of which, how do polyploids fit into the genetic story? For >instance, if a triploid has three sets of chromosomes when the sex cells >split do you get one gamete with two chromosomes and one with one set, >or am I way off course? Hi Phil, I think you're on the right track. Here's my best shot. Let's see if I can do this visually: triploid = XXX all other chromosomes (GG, SS, TT, etc) are the appropriate double set GG represents a double set of chromosomes, all the other double sets of chromosomes behave in the same manner as GG during reductive division to form the gamete cell. Diploid germ cell divides reductively to form a haploid gamete. G1G2 + X1X2 division to gametes G1X1 or G1X2 or G2X1 or G2X2 You can count the chromosomes here (diploid germ cell is showing 4 chromosome; haploid gamete is showing 2 chromosomes). I think the chromosome number for many of the cp's are around 10. In the example above, the 4 haploid gametes will be found in the ovary. Another set of haploid gametes will form the pollen. Each of the above gametes has the appropriate number of chromosomes and upon pollination (the fusion of an ovary with a pollen) will form a diploid germ cell that becomes the seed and later the plant. Now for the plant with triploid chromosomes. Triploid germ cell divides reductively to try to form a haploid (?) gamete. G1G2 + X1X2X3 division to gametes G1X1X2 or G1X2X3 or G1X1X3 or G2X1X3 or G2X1X3 or G2X1X3 Either the above gametes are not live or they cannot fuse with a normal gamete (G1X1 or G1X2 etc) to form a live embryo (seed). I'm not sure which is the case. Someone else know? However, it does work whenever the chromosome number is even, for instance in tetrapoloid plants. Duplicating the chromosomes so that there is a double set of the same chromosome X1X1X2X2 results in live diploid cells. I certainly don't mind someone else adding to this to correct it or to make it more clear. The bottom line is that a triploid plant is not fertile while plants with even numbered (tetraploid, octaploid) chromosomes are fertile. That begs the question, how do you get triploid plants? I think I know the answer but will hold off for fun to see if any of you can figure it out. Now, you Ph.D geneticts types hold onto your answer to see if someone else gets it. David ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:48:44 +0100 Subject: Various Hi list First of all, thanks for the numerous answers about B. liniflora. Someone was talking about D. scorpioides sending a new, red root to the soil. This is normal, I have the same phenomenon here at home, and I've seen the same by another grower. I asked him if I could cut the first 'trunk', but it's not a good idea. Yesterday I finally discovered a surprise from my Nepenthes 'ventricosa' burkei. This plant has sent new vines, as the first one is 'falling' from the pot, and this is the reason why - as it has been frequently explained these last days. I've tried to make some 'aerial cuttings', attaching a bag of wet peat on the mother vine, and trying to see if some roots has came in, I saw at the top my first Nepenthes flower. I guess the new conditions for the plant - growing over an heating source for now - have helped for this. Now, I'm unable to see until now if this will be male or female flowers, but anyone who have, in Europe, pollen or a female flower should keep my message in mind. It's for the next days. Laurent in Belgium. ################### From: John Walker Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:16:11 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Cool hydroponics store I ran across a cool store called "Worm's Way" that deals in Hydroponics and Home Brewing supplies. (What a combination.) Among other really cool stuff, they have HID lighting systems, moving track lighting, really cool self-watering planters, ***************** What a combination indeed, Smoke your bud's and drink them too. I just wonder whether of the likes of DEA & ATF are watching this opperation. DEA tried to subpoena a local "hydroponic" store's customer list. Nothing to worry about if your not doing anything illeagal. John in Phoenix ################### From: Russell Hansen Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:10:44 +1000 (EST) Subject: Help re: Plants That Prey Hi Everyone, I've been looking on the web for info on a book 'Plants That Prey' by Rick someone (Erickson, Ericka?). Can anyone give me an overview, if it's considered a good book, and how much I should pay for a second hand copy? Thanks very much. Russell Hansen | WWW: http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhansen QLD Department of Education | email: Russell.Hansen@qed.qld.gov.au Brisbane, Australia | or: rhansen@powerup.com.au ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:40:36 -0500 Subject: RE: Repotting of VFT? > I would like to find out what is the appropriate pot size > for a young VFT? Bernadette, VFTs don't like to have their roots crowded. I keep mine in pots that are about 8 inches (20cm) deep and 5 inches (13cm) across. This is plenty of room for one large VFT. I've got another pot of the same size with 3 VFTs in it and they need to be repotted -- their traps are growing into one another. Hope this helps, Phil ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 17:38 EST Subject: Re: Re: VFT germination > If you want seed from your VFT. > You must pollinate the VFT but could use a flower from the same plant. > I dont know if you could use the same flower. > > Haakan Murevaern Yes! Dave E. ################### From: Susan Ziegler Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:53:27 -0600 Subject: re: silica sand I noticed someone mentioning silica sand... I work at a hardware store/garden center that is part of the True Value chain of stores in the USA. The silica sand is most COMMONLY called White sand.. so I suggest going to the nearest hardwarestore/garden center (HOME DEPOT is probably a good place...) and ask any of the people there for WHITE SAND... I guarantee that they will probably know exactly what you are talking about then ;) Susan ################### From: "CP-MAN" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:53:01 -0500 Subject: Eric Green Hello fellow cp growers, Eric Green or somebody who knows his e-mail can you you let me know what it is. I have not talked to him since last summer and I lost his e-mail.Or Eric Green if u are out there please e-mail me. Also anyone who has heliamphora seed (not hybrids) for sale can you let me know how much. I am am really looking for enough for a flat ,but really any amount will do. Happy cping, Robert Hood 5807 Fox Brair road Midlothian ,Virginia 23112 U.S.A ICQ# something-ner-other(does anyone really use ICQ anymore?) web-page: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4776 My web page has not been updated in a very long time. Blah,blah,blah ################### From: Matt Miller Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:44:00 -0800 Subject: CP seedling pictures Hello fellow CPers, I have just finished typing up a new section for my web page about the propagation of carnivorous plants. Now I would like to add some pictures to spice things up a bit, however I do not have a scanner ( nor do I have pictures of alot of the things I am describing ). So I was wondering if any of you out there could let me use some of you pictures? Heres what I am looking for: Pictures of seedlings from the genuses: -Dionaea -Drosera -Sarracenia -Nepenthes -Pinguicula -Utricularia -Heliamphora -Darlingtonia -Cephalotus ... yeah I know pretty much all of them, But if you have any of these pictures please e-mail them to my e-mail address at: nuclei@paonline.com Also if you have any pictures of other things like leaf cuttings or division for any of the above families please feel free to send these as well because they would also be very helpful. If you have a CP home page that you would like a link to also send its url along and Ill put in a link. Any pictures would be greatly appreciated... Thank You, Matt Miller Oh the web site is located at: http://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/main.htm ################### From: "Jim & Karla (c223@rollanet.org)" Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:07:48 -0500 Subject: Picture page Hi, Does CP Digest have a "picture page" on the web? What is the address? Also is N. ventricosa a species or hybrid? Sincerely Jim Farrelly ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 23:18 EST Subject: Re: D. linearis help Hello Mark, (re:D.linearis) > This plant grows in alkaline conditions. For those on the list that > cultivate this species I have some questions: > 1. What media do you use for this plant? Should I mix in some hydrated > lime to boost the pH? Wouldn't some limestone soil conditioner do the job? > 2. Should I treat it like D. rotundifolia (temps, light, media wetness)? > 3. Any other special techniques that I should know about? Well, it has a very northern range and hence a very short growing season. Three or four months in growth then dormany for the rest. You'll have to put in your fridge because winter in the US will be too short for them. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 23:58 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes pitcher questions > I was also wondering if there is any way to get older and > taller Nepenthes to start producing lower pitchers again, since > I don't find the upper pitchers very attractive :-) Hello, I feel it depend on the species. N.lowii has better looking upper pitchers, so does N.venticosa. N.ampullaria and N.rafflesiana, on the other hand, have great lower pitchers. Dave Evans ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:03:11 -0000 Subject: Re: bugs, pygmies Hi Andy, Your D scorpioides is entirely normal - in fact it sounds as though you are taking good care of it. The reasons were explained to me in a lecture which specifically discussed Drosera drummondii (now Drosera barbigera). In habitat, the surface temperature can get to 120F, killing the main stem of upright pygmy sundews. An inch or so above the sand the temperature is about 20F lower and the dormant top growth can last out until cooler, wetter times. The top growth will then put out aerial roots which push through the sand until they hit water (the water table from granite run-offs is often only an inch below the surface at this time of year). The pygmy then goes through the normal gemmae/growth/flowering cycle until the next summer. (Laurent - there are good reasons for not cutting the main stem in the wild because it supports the live part of the plant in the cooler air, but I don't see why you shouldn't cut it in cultivation, other than as a commemoration of the plant's age). I thought that seed production in pygmies in cultivation was governed by how close the male and female flower parts are - close together and an accidental jolt could knock some pollen across. All my smaller, more primitive plants (occidentalis, pygmaea) readily set seed. However, as shown in a paper reviewed by Jan in CPN, some pygmies are not self-compatible (mannii). It would be interesting to know whether this is a function of how 'unprimitive' the plants are. My D pulchella are very prolific self-seeders and my D nitidula ssp allantostigma are vary rare self-seeders. I don't know the chromosome counts but crosses between the nitula complex and pulchella are possible. I would have thought that you would be unlikely to get any hybrids just from the plants being sat next to each other unless you gave nature a hand with a paintbrush or flying insects had ready access to both sets of flowers at the same time. However, if I'm wrong, please can I secure a place high in the queue for spare gemmae of your hybrid! Regards, NigelH ################### From: "Marco Lichtenberger" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:36:29 MET-1MEST Subject: Re: Propagation of Mexician PINGS Hi. I find your essay about the propagation of pings quite interesting, because i'm growing these plants for more than seven years. > With the onset of colder weather and lower light levels its time > to propagate the Mexician Pinguiculas . Because i had no information about Pinguicula or any other carnivorous plant when i bought my first moranensis i tried out the best way to propagate them with single leaves, cuttings, etc. i finally came to the conclusion that under my growing conditions (Germany) the best time for propagation is May to June when the plants "awake" and start to get their carnivorous leaves. I only use the first winter-leaves and put them to the terrarium of my Nephentes (of course in seperate pots filled with fertilized peat and sand).Two or three months later they are transferred to single pots and treatet like the adult plants. They are nearly all flowering in the following flowering period in December and January and now they are even as big as the adult plants. Though i wasn't successful to get seeds at all. Does anyone know how to pollinate these plants, at least the "everyday" moranensis, esseriana and gypsicola ? Also i would be pleasant to know if anyone has experience in growing plants of the kind of primuliflora, my young plants grow next to my Nepenthes, but as soon as they have flowered the first time they rot. Thanks and good growing. Marco. ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:23:37 -0000 Subject: Re: Byblis liniflora (Darwin) I have some Byblis liniflora ssp liniflora from Darwin and they readily set seed. Is Byblis liniflora ssp occidentalis also found around Darwin? If so, that would explain Fernando's observation. I was interested to read Phil's observation that B liniflora ssp occidentalis flower structure seems to be intermediate between B liniflora ssp liniflora and B gigantea. I understand that hybridogenic origin has been ruled out. Is there a case for raising this to species rank ie Byblis occidentalis? NigelH ################### From: -Tom- Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:21:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Propagation of Mexician PINGS Marco, >Also i would be pleasant to know if anyone has experience in growing >plants of the kind of primuliflora, my young plants grow next to my >Nepenthes, but as soon as they have flowered the first time they rot. What medium do you grow them in - I have the best luck using a mix with at LEAST 50% sand. Perhaps more. While I keep them wet during the actual flowering period, I let the water completely disappear from the trays to simulate the *somewhat* dryer conditions of summer. Hope this helps. Take care & keep on growing, Thomas K. Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS dangerous_plants@hotmail.com tkhayes@mail.microserve.net http://www.infinicom.com/~thayes ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:42:56 PST Subject: Re: FW Question >That begs the question, how do you get triploid plants? I think I >know the answer but will hold off for fun to see if any of you can >figure it out. How about during meiosis, a set of the chromosomes(for some unknown reason) don't separate? The result is a haploid cell with both copies of a particular chromosome and another cell with no copies. When the haploid cell with both copies of the chromosome fuses to another haploid cell with one copy of the chromosome, you get the triploid cell. How's that for a stab in the dark, Stefan ################### From: "kamikaze" <011114@hillstrath.on.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:15:13 -0400 Subject: VFT pollination Dear list, I was wondering if pollen from "shark teeth" VFT was transferred to a normal VFT plant, what would the offspring look like? I have heard that inbreeding in animals is detrimental and increases suseptibility to diseases, would this be the case with plants also? I know that many plants are often self pollinated, would this make the offspring plants weaker? Many plants try to avoid self pollination...maybe for this very reason. thanks adwait ################### From: ALVIN.CHIN@chase.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:37:23 -0500 Subject: EMAIL PLEASE STOP SENDING ME EMAIL AT THIS ADDRESS. I AM LEAVING THIS FIRM THANK YOU ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:40:00 -0500 Subject: Re: FW Question Hi Stefan >That begs the question, how do you get triploid plants? I think I >know the answer but will hold off for fun to see if any of you can >figure it out. >>How about during meiosis, a set of the chromosomes(for some unknown >>reason) don't separate? The result is a haploid cell with both copies of >>a particular chromosome and another cell with no copies. When the >>haploid cell with both copies of the chromosome fuses to another haploid >>cell with one copy of the chromosome, you get the triploid cell. I hadn't thought of that, but I'm pretty sure that I remember it from my geneticts classess. >> How's that for a stab in the dark, Some of the best scientific breakthrough have come from a stab in the dark. David ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:25:31 -0000 Subject: Update - Nep. Madagascariensis for trade or sale Sometime in the next day or so I hope to get out to the nursery to have a look at the plants. It is about a 20 minute drive from where I live, but I should be able to get out there sometime soon. I am not sure if the $14.95 plants are the same as the $4.95 ones that I bought. When I bought those in the fall, there were only 3 or 4 pots left, and the plants were sick-looking and pitcherless. This could be why they were at that price, being the leftovers. If this is true, then the plants may unfortunately be $14.95 right now. Hopefully this is not the case and they have healthy plants at $4.95 apiece. I will let you know after I go check them out. Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:44:52 -0000 Subject: Best water for CP, where to get it at the best price After buying distilled water in gallon jugs for $1.09 apiece for the past few months, I noticed the large water dispenser at the end of the aisle (in the supermarket) which I had never stopped to look at thinking it was spring water. I was greatly surprised at what I found. Not only was it not a spring water dispenser, but it was a Reverse-Osmosis unit. But it gets even better. It was a machine that takes regular city tap water (from some unseen pipe in the supermarket, I suppose), then passes it through two different filters, one to remove particles, another to remove chlorine. After that the water is Reverse-Osmosified (if there is such a verb). Finally, the feature that most impressed me, the water is exposed to UV light to kill or neutralize bacteria, etc. The cost? Probably cheaper than it costs the hobby grower with a Reverse-Osmosis unit or water distiller to operate their equipment. The prices are around (I do not remember the exact prices) 2 gallon containers for $3.50 and less than a dollar for each refill, 3 gallon containers for $5.50 and about a dollar a refill, and (this is what I bought) 5 gallon containers (with a faucet built in) for $7.50 and about $1.25 a refill. These prices are probably the best possible for water this pure. Check your local supermarket for these units. The one I have begun to use is in a Metro (that is the name of the chain) supermarket. The company that makes the unit is Harmony Brook. Just thought I would pass this info along, it seems to me a good deal, and it would probably be difficult to find water for CP that is any purer. Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:49:00 -0500 Subject: RE: VFT pollination >I have heard that inbreeding in animals is detrimental and increases suseptibility >to diseases, would this be the case with plants also? I know that >many plants are often self pollinated, would this make the offspring >plants weaker? Generally, inbreeding (breeding closely related animals of the same species) is not a problem. Continued inbreeding of the same closely related aminals, however, increases the chances of letting detrimental as well as desired characteristics to surface. Probably the dog is a good example of breeding closely related siblings for desired characteristics while at the same time increasing the possibility of dysplasia. Low fertility is another result of continued inbreeding. What breeders often do is line breed. Breed closely related siblings or sibling/parents for several generations and then outcross to another blood line to prevent undesirable characteristics from predominating in the gene pool. Plant breeding probably follows the same principles. David ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:16:48 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: EMAIL You wrote: > PLEASE STOP SENDING ME EMAIL AT THIS ADDRESS. > I AM LEAVING THIS FIRM > THANK YOU You must unsubscribe yourself from the list. Send an e-mail message to: listproc@opus.hpl.hp.com For the subject line write: unsubscribe cp Also write this as the only line of the message body. Send it off, and that should do it. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:13:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Best water for CP, where to get it at the best price The price of your RO water seems a bit high. I believe we have the same machines which sell water for as low as 35 cents per gallon. Another good source for RO water is outside some Kmart stores. Just some added advice. Charles The cost? Probably cheaper than it costs the hobby grower with a Reverse-Osmosis unit or water distiller to operate their equipment. The prices are around (I do not remember the exact prices) 2 gallon containers for $3.50 and less than a dollar for each refill, 3 gallon containers for $5.50 and about a dollar a refill, and (this is what I bought) 5 gallon containers (with a faucet built in) for $7.50 and about $1.25 a refill. These prices are probably the best possible for water this pure. Check your local supermarket for these units. The one I have begun to use is in a Metro (that is the name of the chain) supermarket. The company that makes the unit is Harmony Brook. Just thought I would pass this info along, it seems to me a good deal, and it would probably be difficult to find water for CP that is any purer. Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:32:05 -0500 Subject: Re: light fictures Hi All, I need a little assistance, I am looking for supplier who sells fluorescent light fixture that holes 4-48" fluorescent tubes and that will not exceed 14 inches wide. Charley's greenhouse supplies sells one for a whopping $100+ dollars. I'm sure there are companies out there that sell the same fixture, but for less. These fixtures fit nicely over 40 gallon long aquariums. If you can help me, please advise privately. Thanks in advance Charles Brewer ################### From: Michal Dworaczek Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:44:22 -0600 Subject: Dave thanks for the Sarracenia seeds Appreciate the labelling! ,-~~-.___. <----------------------------------------> / | ' \ -=| Michal Dworaczek |=- ( ) 0 -=| dworaczek@usa.net |=- \_/-, ,----' -=| (306)-477-2083 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan |=- ==== // -=| C A N A D A |=- / \-'~; /~~~(O) <----------------------------------------> / __/~| / IBM | Check out my home page!!! =( ______| (_________| http://dworaczek.home.ml.org YOU CAN ALSO CONTACT ME USING ICQ - MY NUMBER IS 5922615 ################### From: Larry Mellichamp Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 20:30:58 -0600 Subject: Re: help with address Dear Group, I have long lost my address to contact Alan Hindle in England. Can anyone email me privately with it (don't post it on the CP page). Thanks in advance. By the way, thanks for all the kind remarks about my Sarracenia hybrids 'Dixie Lace' and "Ladies -in-Waiting' on the server. They are selling fast and may be already gone for the season. More in fall. 'Dixie Lace' I know is still available from Niche Gardens. Larry Larry Mellichamp Biology Dept. UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 phone (704) 547-4055 Fax (704) 547-3128 E-Mail FBI00TLM@email.UNCC.EDU ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:00:22 -0000 Subject: Re: Re: Best water for CP, where to get it at the best price On the prices, those are prices for refilling the entire container. For a 5 gallon container, at around $1.25 (+- 5 cents)a refill, comes to only 25 cents a gallon. I know that it comes out to less than 35 cents a gallon, and it is at least 25 cents a gallon. All of this is of course with the 5 gallon container, which is well worth the cost. I am not quite sure how these machines turn a profit, unless they are far more efficient than the simple water distiller units that I have seen for sale for home use, which if I remember correctly can cost around 35 cents per gallon in electricity(?) and do not have the UV sterilization either (I do not know what filters the home units have). ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:04:26 -0000 Subject: Nep. Madagascariensis nursery Today I went to the nursery for the second time since my posting, and once again they were closed. This time I checked their closing time (4 pm, apparently). I should be able to get there before they close sometime this week. I will see if the store ships plants themselves, since they might be able to get a better shipping rate than I can and thus can save those who want the plants some money. I'll keep you posted. ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:34:37 PST Subject: recipients recipients ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:19:05 -0000 Subject: Walmart For the record, I do not own stock in these sources that I have been mentioning lately :) A good place to find all sorts of stuff for your growing and tissue culturing needs is Walmart. I bought an 8 quart pressure cooker to use for tissue culture for about $55 (this is a decent price, btw do not try to be stingy when buying a pressure cooker, they have explosion potential, just spend the small difference in cost if it means a safer model). 4 quart models cost around $30. Then there are containers, lights, water filters, etc.... at decent prices. Just thought I would mention this as I had not thought of Walmart as a good place to find things for the hobby grower until someone suggested that they probably had what I wanted to buy. ################### From: "Capestany" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:38:00 -0800 Subject: Sphagnum moss Is it normal for sphagnum moss to be whitish and brown in the winter? Though the moss is growing in my Nepenthes terrarium and the Neps are doing great, some of the sphagnum which is normally green seems sickly. Both the Neps and the moss grow in a perlite/bark mixture sold for orchids and have high humidity and good light. What could I be doing wrong? dr.cap Alexandria, Virginia USA ################### From: "Judy Clark" Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:44:07 -0500 Subject: Propagation of Pings To: Marco Lichtenberger , It seems you got a handle on proping those pings , but I see you pull them off when there starting to grow again. They do grow better that way ,but the advantage is by taking them in January ,you will all ready have a plant by the time you are going to take the cuttings in May or June . As to how you fertilize the Ping flowers .It is a simple matter of taking a small toothpick and sharping it to a small point ,then dull the end of it a little .Next grasp the flower gently and insert it into the long spur through the center of the flower with a upperward motion deposit the pollen onto the ovary or beard of the flower. You may have to do this once a day for several days for it to take.The flower will fall away and leave the seed pod to ripen. I do not do this because it is so easy to produce them from the little Sedum like leaves,and because vegetively you know that it is the same clone you started with.The Mexician pings are far easier group of plants to grow than any of temperate or tropicals .I thought you might want to know what kinds I'm growing at this time so here's my list : Mexican Pinguicula ; P.ehlerserae X P. oblingiloba P.(moranensis P.ehlersae) X P. sethos P.X mala (caudata X gypsicola) P. kewensis P. rosei P. moranensis. and others . I'm far more interested in the BAD BOY plants like Sarracenia's and Fly Traps .But the Mexician Pinguicula will always have a spot or section of my heart and greenhouse.Any of you can Email me privatly at jclark2712@msn.com David Crump aka "Butch" @ Carolina Carnivorous Gardens......................... ################### From: Minoru Hasebe Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:11:00 +0900 Subject: Tissue cultured CP for sale Over 50 varieties of tissue cultured cp (in vitro) will be available for sale. If anyone is interested, e-mail me for a list. We will send them worldwide. E-mail: FZG04172@niftyserve.or.jp ################### From: ss66428 Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:20:06 +0900 Subject: Re: Byblis liniflora "Darwin" Nigel, There certainly is "normal" B.liniflora in Darwin, I saw some myself there a few years ago (although they were a bit larger - with longer leaves - and with darker flowers than the ones I had in cultivation). What I was reffering to in my previous mail was the plant Allen Lowrie discovered and calls B.sp.aff.liniflora "Darwin" or something like that. I've grown this form and it is really quite different. I believe Allen may publish it soon as a subspecies of B.liniflora. Anyways, it is not an easy one to grow and also sets seeds only when hand-pollinated (and I think it needs the help of a tuning fork as well). Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: koudela@ure.cas.cz Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:33:34 +0000 Subject: Re: Erickson's book Hi Russell (Hansen), >I've been looking on the web for info on a book 'Plants That Prey' >by Rick someone (Erickson, Ericka?). Rica Erickson >Can anyone give me an overview, if it's considered a good book, and >how much I should pay for a second hand copy? Here is the info you can find in the CP book list. I doubt you can find a copy in a second hand bookstore, anyway if you do succeed, let the listserv (or me at least) know about it. Erickson, Rica: "Plants of Prey in Australia".Lamb Publications, Osborne Park, Perth, 1968. ISBN 0855640995, $16.00, ? cover (following ed. University of Western Australia Press, Nedlands, W.A., 1978; 1986?, ?). Descr.: 94 pp., no photographs but 18 plates (B&W and colour) of densely illustrated botanical drawings. Index, Bibliography. Excellent companion to Lowrie's later works. No cultural information. A book covering all the Australian CP known at the time. Hope this helps. BTW, I still need a help with locating info about the books whose entries are not complete in the CP book list. The list itself can be found at http://redtail.unm.edu/cp/cparchive.html#Books. Alternatively, I can send the most recent version to all interested parties. Regards, Ivo *************************************************** * Mgr. Ivo Koudela * * work address: home address: * * IREE AS Okruzni 25/21 * * Chaberska 57 Zdar nad Sazavou * * 182 51 Prague 8 591 01 * * Czech Republic Czech Republic * * tel: +422 6881804 * * fax: +422 6880222 * * e-mail: koudela@ure.cas.cz * *************************************************** ################### From: "Lanham, Steven I." Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:45:22 -0600 Subject: Re: VFT germination In regards to pollinating VFTs last spring I used the pollen from the flower that opened yesterday. It seems the each flower can receive pollen on day one and makes pollen on day two. I planted some of this seed as soon as the pods turned dry and black and in less than two weeks I had new plants. I had only one plant flower so this seed was selfed. Regards Steve I Lanham from near St Louis Missouri USA ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:46:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Tissue cultured CP for sale On 27 Jan 98 at 20:19, Minoru Hasebe wrote: > Over 50 varieties of tissue cultured cp (in vitro) will be > available for sale. If anyone is interested, e-mail me > for a list. We will send them worldwide. > > E-mail: FZG04172@niftyserve.or.jp > What do you offer? Bye, Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Phone: +49-621-705471 / +49-621-7152027 Fax: +49-621-7152028 E-Mail: andreas@wistuba.com ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:57:25 -0700 Subject: Re: VFT pollination Mellard, David writes: >Generally, inbreeding (breeding closely related animals >of the same species) is not a problem. This is something that animal breeders will argue bitterly over and certainly does not need to be settled here, however, I wanted to throw in my two cents regarding differences and similarities in plant and animal breeding. Anytime you breed two closely related living things you have a greater chance of bringing out recessive traits. This would be considered desirable if the trait that you wish to preserve is a normally recessive trait as your offspring will have an excellent chance of showing the recessive phenotype. If, however, the trait is undesirable then the offspring will be at a disadvantage (which I believe the original poster was alluding to). One key difference between many plants and animals, however, is that plants can produce hundreds to thousands of potential offspring (seeds) annually while most mammals will produce only a few. This can have a dramatic effect on the genetics of a population. Plants that readily self fertilize have a very high chance of being homozygous for recessive traits and offspring with undesirable recessive traits will be removed from the population by natural selection. Animals, are much more likely to be carriers of harmful recessive traits. This is of course a broad over generalization but hopefully you get the idea. I have heard that a typical human may have 40 potentially lethal recessive traits. Consequently an inbred human has an excellent chance of not surviving or having severe deformities. I suspect that most D. capensis and D. spathulata (plants that readily self fertilize) have very few. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:53:26 Subject: Re: Byblis liniflora "Darwin" Dear Fernando, > There certainly is "normal" B.liniflora in Darwin The plants cultivated in Europe under the name > B.sp.aff.liniflora "Darwin" from seeds obtained via Dingley Home & Garden are quite certainly the typical subspecies, so there seems to be quite a confusion already surrounding the illegitimate "Darwin" name. > I believe Allen may publish it soon as a subspecies of B.liniflora. He should have done that years ago if he thinks it is distinct. For discussions on bogus names cf. previous messages on this list... Kind regards Jan ################### From: "j.m.haddon" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:19:46 GMT+0 Subject: Plant protection Hi all, I am currently attempting to write an essay on legislation which protects flora. I need some examples of cases in which the legislation has failed and in which legislation has succeeded to protect plants. UK examples would make it easier for me but any are welcome. Thanks JoHn ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:55:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Sphagnum moss Try misting the moss more. It should not be turning brown and the whitish color indicated lack of water or, dying. Did you spray a fungicide or any other type of chemical on your plants?. If so, that may be the problem. I grow sphagnum moss and only have problems when it is to windy outside, otherword it does just fine in my area. Contact me privately and I will offer some more suggestions Charles Brewer Va. Beach Is it normal for sphagnum moss to be whitish and brown in the winter? Though the moss is growing in my Nepenthes terrarium and the Neps are doing great, some of the sphagnum which is normally green seems sickly. Both the Neps and the moss grow in a perlite/bark mixture sold for orchids and have high humidity and good light. What could I be doing wrong? dr.cap Alexandria, Virginia USA ################### From: "Heggood" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:50:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Lighting fixtures Hi Charles! I recently picked up 3 shop light fixtures at Home Depot that are 5.5 inches wide for my new Heli tank. I believe they were less than 10.00 each. The brand was Lithonia from Lithonia Lighting company. These only hold 2 tubes, but 2 fixtures side-by-side will meet you 14 inch requirement. -steve- >Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 15:32:05 -0500 >From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: Re: light fictures >Message-ID: <4CE451A0.@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil> > > >Hi All, > I need a little assistance, I am looking for supplier who sells fluorescent >light fixture that holes 4-48" fluorescent tubes and that will not exceed 14 >inches wide. Charley's greenhouse supplies sells one for a whopping $100+ >dollars. I'm sure there are companies out there that sell the same fixture, but >for less. These fixtures fit nicely over 40 gallon long aquariums. If you can >help me, please advise privately. Thanks in advance > Charles Brewer > > >------------------------------ > >End of CP Digest 1340 >********************* ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:46:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Sphagnum moss >Is it normal for sphagnum moss to be whitish and brown in the winter? Though >the moss is growing in my Nepenthes terrarium and the Neps are doing great, >some of the sphagnum which is normally green seems sickly. Both the Neps and >the moss grow in a perlite/bark mixture sold for orchids and have high >humidity and good light. What could I be doing wrong? White moss means it's too dry. I occassionally get moss with brown tips and suspect that the tips are dead or infected. Since the moss is growing on top of a perlite/bark mix, there's probably not enough wicking action when the mix dries out to draw water into the moss; therefore, the moss turns white. It may not be dead yet though so try rehydrating with water. If it turns green again, it will be ok. You'll have to keep a closer eye on the moss in the current set up and water when it starts to turn white. In the long run, though, this is probably not healthy for the moss since moss likes continuous moisture. David ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com (Michael A Sankovich) Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:58:42 -0500 Subject: Re: silica sand No matter what kind of sand you get, I recomend putting a few drops of concentrated muriatic acid (HCL) on a sample and look for a reaction (foaming). If you get one, DO NOT USE THIS SAND! this indicates the presense of bicarbinate or limestone. I never take anyones word that the product is pure unless I test it. There are too many variables in packaging and handling where impurities can contaminate the product. If it comes up positive then I use it for to mix with concrete or other household uses. After all, we aren't dealing with a food product here Michael Sankovich "Ashes to ashes, Dust to dust, If the misery don't get you, The raspberry julep spring tonic, (with the persimmon sap,) Must!" _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:42:28 +0000 Subject: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail In message <4CE451A0.?@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil>, BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail .damneck.navy.mil writes > >Hi All, > I need a little assistance, I am looking for supplier who sells fluorescent >light fixture that holes 4-48" fluorescent tubes and that will not exceed 14 >inches wide. Charley's greenhouse supplies sells one for a whopping $100+ >dollars. I'm sure there are companies out there that sell the same fixture, but >for less. These fixtures fit nicely over 40 gallon long aquariums. If you can >help me, please advise privately. Thanks in advance > Charles Brewer > Charles, I can't really give much advice for you in the States as things are no doubt different to here but the unit I would go for is two double slim line fittings. These are sold by the thousand to the general electrical contractor trade for commerical lighting. The units we get here are about 5 - 6 inches wide so two will easily fit into your space. Try somewhere that sells electrical fittings to the general electrical trade. They are going to be cheaper than any specialised store. I'm sure you can rig something up to support the fittings so they fit into your tank with a piece of wood or sheet Aluminum. I'd make it for you myself if I lived a bit nearer. ;-) Regards, -- Phil Wilson ################### From: Russell Hansen Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:12:24 +1000 (EST) Subject: Re: Erickson's book and Drosera On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 koudela@ure.cas.cz wrote: > Here is the info you can find in the CP book list. I doubt you can > find a copy in a second hand bookstore, anyway if you do succeed, > let the listserv (or me at least) know about it. > > Erickson, Rica: "Plants of Prey in Australia".Lamb Publications, Thanks for the info. I have actually found a copy in a second hand bookstore for AUS $20. I guess I should get it hey, or I'll never see it again. That'll bring by CP book collection up to two, with Gordon Cheers 'Carniverous Plants of the World' being the other book I got a few years ago on sale for $8. On the topic of Drosera, my brother puchased a block of land about 15 years ago on the southern outskirts of Brisbane. At the time, there was lots of vacan t land around there, but now it's practically all built out. While we were cutting all the long grass when he first bought it, we discovered masses of Drosera all over the ground. At that time, CP's were a new 'Novelty' with a few VT's occassionally appearing in the shops, and I was a naive teenager. Anyway, we did a little research and figured it was a drosera binata (as that was the only drosera species we knew existed). Of course we dug some up, took them home (several times) and they all promptly died, so we gave up in the end. I'm afraid I have to sadly say (now that I realise what exactly we had) that they all ended up being bulldozed to make way for the house. I was wondering if anyone knows of any recorded species of Drosera being found in Brisbane, or what types. Please don't anyone tell me that it may have been a unique collection that was never discovered, or I'll never forgive myself. Russell Hansen | WWW:http://www.powerup.com.au/~rhansen QLD Department of Education | email: Russell.Hansen@qed.qld.gov.au Brisbane, Australia | or: rhansen@powerup.com.au ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:55:36 -0500 Subject: RE: Sphagnum moss > Is it normal for sphagnum moss to be whitish and > brown in the winter? Though the moss is growing in > my Nepenthes terrarium and the Neps are doing great, > some of the sphagnum which is normally green seems > sickly. Both the Neps and the moss grow in a > perlite/bark mixture sold for orchids and have high > humidity and good light. What could I be doing wrong? Dr. Cap, My sphagnum moss is outside here in the North Carolina piedmont and it is a bright green, even when frozen. My moss turns whitish and brown when it is dried out, like when a bird has been digging in the pots and knocked some of it out. I'm sure drying is not the only reason that sphagnum turns color, but that's been my experience. hth, Phil ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:00:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: BACPS This weekend the Bay Area CP society is scheduled to have a San Francisco meeting. I expect to be there and would like to speak with anyone who would like to write articles for Carnivorous Plant Newsletter. Of course, I do not wish to detract from anyone's initiative to write notes for the BACP Society's fine publication! Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 19:15 EST Subject: Re: VFT pollination Dear Adwait, > I was wondering if pollen from "shark teeth" VFT was transferred to a > normal VFT plant, what would the offspring look like? Sounds like a great experiment to me! Tom Hayes has mentioned that at least some self-pollinated "shark's teeth" VFT seedlings come out with "shark's teeth." > I have heard that inbreeding in animals is detrimental and > increases suseptibility to diseases, would this be the case with > plants also? I know that many plants are often self pollinated, > would this make the offspring plants weaker? Many plants try to > avoid self pollination...maybe for this very reason. Well, that's what culling is for. Only some will show detrimental characteristics. Either they will die off or may look sickly even while others are growing robustly. If you don't like them, throw them on the compost heap. Good Luck, Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 22:13 EST Subject: Re: Help needed for seeds > From: "Gilles LARDY" > > Further to Laurent Ide's advice I resort to our community to try to set up a > new collection here in HK. > I would appreciate to get any seeds of droseras (tropical & sub-tropical > species), byblis, utrics, genlisea or neps. > I don't have much to trade, except from D. spathulata 'HK', D. oblanceolata > and N. mirabilis seeds and seedlings. > Dear Gilles, I have a number of Drosera and other CP seeds that you mentioned or might want for your bank. I tried sending private mail, but haven't heard back in a while from you... Let me know if you have any interest. Thank's, Dave Evans ################### From: Al Bickell Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:00:04 -0500 (EST) Subject: stratification Hi everyone, I have a question for the experts on the list. Is it necessary to stratify Darlingtonia seeds in order to have them germinate? Al Bickell ################### From: "Kamil Pasek" Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:35:41 +0100 Subject: Heliamphora pollen wanted ! Hi all, my Heliamphora heterodoxa will be blooming at first. I'm looking for fresh pollen from arbitrary Heliamphora species for exchange. How long is Heliamphora\264s pollen live? Happy growing, Kamil _____________________________________________________ Kamil Pasek, L. Podeste 1871, 70800 Ostrava 8, Czech Republic e. mail : kamil.pasek@usa.net, adela.revue@post.cz _____________________________________________________ ################### From: elliott@nexus.edu.au (Russell Elliott) Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:38:22 +1030 (CST) Subject: Seed Trade Brian, Thanks for the large amount of N.lavicola seed that arrived today! I have processed the trade, and was able to give you all the species you requested, including about 2000 Sarracenia flava seeds. However, I was only able send you one or two or each of the others. Is that OK? I also need your postal address again (I seem to have misplaced your previous emails!) Thanks, -Russell @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ! Russell Elliott, Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society. ! ! Sorry, due to limited stocks, seed only available to members. ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! ! Please Direct membership enquiries to Brian Denton at: ! ! mailto:bdenton@camtech.net.au ! ! ACPS Home Page: http://www.camtech.net.au/acps ! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:19:58 +0100 Subject: FREE (!) CP seeds available, part II I have received a lot of requests on the first offering made at the end of last year. But I have still seeds left. Most of the species are still available, but the amount per specie may vary. I even have spare S. purp. purp stolonifera seed left, due to the fact that I have send so few to the first who requested it. I have not kept any records of who ordered what and who I have send anything to yet, so it has become a big mess. This won't happen again. Will those to whom I have promised seeds, but who have not yet received anything, nor an e-mail nor seeds, during the last 14 day, please contact me ? Here is a copy of the first message, send on 12th of December 1997. I still have a number of CP seeds left that I want to share with members of this list. The seeds are for free. E-mail me privately. Please send me your spare seed list so we can trade. If you don't have any seeds to trade for, I would appreciate it if you would send me a Stamped and Self Addressed Envelope (SAE). Remember you may need an International Reply Coupon, if you like to have your seeds send to you via air mail, you will have to send two IRC's.. Priority will be given to people who want to / can trade. Here is my list of available seeds. The amount of seeds varies. Unless otherwise stated, seeds were harvested in 1997. As more people get this list, some seeds may no longer be available. _Darlingtonia_ californica _Dionaea_ muscipula muscipula green form (very low quantity) _Drosera_ capenis filiformis ssp. filiformis (probably contaminated with D. capensis seeds) intermedia rotundifolia spathulata _Sarracenia_ alata flava flava gigantea flava maxima flava red veined flava red veined / red throat flava rugelii (green) (flava x leucophylla) self pollinated leucophylla 1994 many many seeds leucophylla (leucophylla x purpurea venosa) x leucophylla minor (minor x psittacina) self pollinated x mitchelliana self pollinated oreophylla purpurea purpurea origin : Botanical Garden Ghent (mislabelled, is probably a hybrid between S. purpurea purpurea and S. rubra ???) purpurea purpurea heterophylla purpurea purpurea stolonifera very low quantity purpurea venosa rubra Kind regards Wim ################### From: dinkmaster@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:01:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: Smith Family Reunion Hi there Smiths! It's that time again! It seems like every time we turn around, it's reunion time again. Has it really been five years? Meg and I are in charge of it this go round, so we'd like to start by filling you in with what is going on in these Smith's neck of the woods. We are living in Guam, as most of you know. Meg just birthed a healthy baby in December, named Pat. As most of you know from our Christmas letter, As you may recall, Pat is a eunich. Thank you all for the kind words of inspitation. We love Pat dearly. Speaking of love, we love it here, but it tends to get a bit wet in monsoon season. Our youngest son, Tom Jr. got caught in a gullywasher, but our trusty pooch Lucky pulled him out before the waterfall. (Yay Lucky! Way to go!) Anyway, the reunion is set for April 17th, 18th, and 19th at Yellowstone. We have made special arrangements, and will have a whole campground to ourselves. Take the main road in, and hit side trail #34 up to campground 34c. We will be having a potluck supper Friday night, so everybody bring their best dish and their appatites! (Linda, that means your ambrosia salad!! YUM!) On a sadder note, Uncle Robert fell and broke his hip, so please call him and wish him a speedy recovery so he might be able to make the reunion. Be sure to RSVP to me ASAP. I have to have a complete headcount by Feburary 1st. We can't wait to see you there. Afterall, blood is thicker that water. Daniel "Dinkmaster" Smith P.S. Aunt Becky was cleard of all charges, so it is safe to bring the kids! Yay Aunt Becky!!!!! ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:40:09 +0100 Subject: N. ventricosa I guess N. ventricosa is not an hybrid. N. burkei is as subspecies, if I'm right. Laurent ################### From: "Bernadette Png" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:38:34 +0800 Subject: trimming of VFT triggers Hi, is it alright to trim away the triggers of my VFT while re-potting? There are a number which had somehow remained closed, and some are even found inside another, and there are some broken ones too. Can all those be cut off. If yes where do I cut it off from? Will it affect the overall plant in any way? Thanks. Bernie --- Bernadette Png Singapore parrotzfreak@usa.net http://www.cyberway.com.sg/~hoglet ICQ - #6931263 Petz: Ginny (Bull Terrier) Pokie (VFT) ################### From: "Gerrie Buckley" Date: Thu, 30 Jan 1997 21:52:48 +0200 Subject: Fw: Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... ---------- > From: Ian Leonard > To: Steve & Margaret Bain ; Rob Allart ; Microsource : Norman Marsh ; Lyons - Lynda ; KFM - Steve Wood ; Flint - Trevor ; Creda - Software ; Buckley - Gerrie > Subject: Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... > Date: 29 January 1998 05:35 > > Date: Wednesday, 28 January, 1998 3:42 AM > Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... > > VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open > it. > It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this > letter out > to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious > virus and > not many people know about it. This information was > announced > yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone > that might > access the internet. Once again, pass this along to > EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. > Also, do not open or even look at any mail that says > "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVERY" This virus will attach > itself to your computer components and render them useless. > Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL has > said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is > NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary > measures and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. > > Kind regards > Jerry Boezel > Manager, WW Marketing, Large Systems Storage > Storage Systems Division > 5600 Cottle Road, San Jose, CA 95193 USA; dept. P22/010 > office 426 > Phone (408) 256 5007, Fax (408) 256 7821. Secretary: Sue > Peres at (408) 256 > 5063 or IBMUSM51(SUEPERES) > > ################### From: Matt Miller Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:44:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Fw: Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... Gerrie Buckley wrote: > > ---------- > > From: Ian Leonard > > To: Steve & Margaret Bain ; Rob Allart > ; Microsource : Norman Marsh > ; Lyons - Lynda ; KFM - Steve Wood > ; Flint - Trevor ; Creda - > Software ; Buckley - Gerrie > > Subject: Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... > > Date: 29 January 1998 05:35 > > > > Date: Wednesday, 28 January, 1998 3:42 AM > > Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... > > > > VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > > If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open > > it. > > It will erase everything on your hard drive. Forward this > > letter out > > to as many people as you can. This is a new, very malicious > > virus and > > not many people know about it. This information was > > announced > > yesterday morning from IBM; please share it with everyone > > that might > > access the internet. Once again, pass this along to > > EVERYONE in your address book so that this may be stopped. > > Also, do not open or even look at any mail that says > > "RETURNED OR UNABLE TO DELIVERY" This virus will attach > > itself to your computer components and render them useless. > > Immediately delete any mail items that say this. AOL has > > said that this is a very dangerous virus and that there is > > NO remedy for it at this time. Please practice cautionary > > measures and forward this to all your online friends ASAP. > > > > Kind regards > > Jerry Boezel > > Manager, WW Marketing, Large Systems Storage > > Storage Systems Division > > 5600 Cottle Road, San Jose, CA 95193 USA; dept. P22/010 > > office 426 > > Phone (408) 256 5007, Fax (408) 256 7821. Secretary: Sue > > Peres at (408) 256 > > 5063 or IBMUSM51(SUEPERES) > > > > This is a virus hoax, it has been traveling around the internet for some time now, viruses can not be placed in your normal e-mail document, they could be sent along as attachments so It is advisable not to open attachments from people you dont know. ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 18:22 EST Subject: Re: Heliamphora pollen wanted ! Dear Kamil, > my Heliamphora heterodoxa will be blooming at first. I'm looking > for fresh > pollen from arbitrary Heliamphora species for exchange. You can make true to species seed by selfing your plant. I know Heliamphora can be selfed, but they wouldn't self-pollinate themselves, you must help. > How long is Heliamphora\264s pollen live? Depends on the conditions, in this case the packaging. Dry it out in the fridge, cold and dry are the best conditions for most pollen. Otherwise it will mold. Once dry, mail it in the same manner you would seed. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 19:04 EST Subject: Re: N. ventricosa Hello Ide, > I guess N. ventricosa is not an hybrid. N. burkei is as subspecies, if I'm > right. You are just about 100% correct! There are hybrids being sold as either N.ventricosa or N.alata. They often turn out to be N.* ventrata, the hybrid between N.ventricosa and N. alata. One thing to watchout for here is: N.alata has a petiole, if your N.alata comes without one (or a half-way attempt at one, it's probably N.* ventrata. While N.ventricosa has no petiole, if there is a wave or constriction (half-way attempt at a petiole) near where the leaves join the stem, it will probably turn out to be N.ventrata. (this part below has nothing to do with N.alata) So far, I can't see any diffence between them. N. burkei, in my opinion isn't even a subspecies. Just N.ventricosa with the name N.burkei stuck on the label next to it. Now, the plants labelled with N.burkei tend to be larger for the same conditions compared with those labelled N.ventricosa, but so what? All the N.burkei plants going around are clones made from one or just a few plants. Couldn't there also be other plants from the N.burkei type location that are the same size as N.ventricosa??? The differences between the two seem to be only "personal" (coloration and size) in nature not even a different variety. I have seen more diversity between different clones of N.maxima. However, I haven't been to the type location (if it still exists) to look at the plants. Has anyone else been to the Phillipines to see? **This is just my opinion, and I'm not an expert on Nepenthes morphology yet, so don't go changing your labels until some more work is done.** Dave Evans ################### From: "Neal Nagata" Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:01:09 PST Subject: a little advice..- i need it lol Fellow CPers, hi i have been out of the CP loop for about a year.. all of my plants that i had have died, :-( due to neglect :-(. i just received some Sarrs., a Darlingtonia, some VFTs, a nep, and a Drosera capensis, from Dean Cook (http://www.televar.com/~cooks). They all came in very excellent condition. i have ordered from him on several occasions, since i have been into CP heavily, about a year or so.. Every time my plants came in i was not disappointed. Anyways, i have thusfar planted these plants in a Peat Moss/Perlite mix.. in garden bowls/pots. i am looking for information on how much water/light i can give these plants to keep them flourishing. can anyone help me with this? Last time i had my plants, i was very busy with other affairs, so i could not pay much attention to my plants. Now i can lol. If anyone can help me with some facts about care for these cp, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, Best And kind regards, Neal ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 30 Jan 98 22:49 EST Subject: Re: Re: Superthrive - False advertising? Dear Rand, > >Superthrive - False advertising? > > > > While I will not confirm or dispute the effectiveness of > > Superthrive, I > >do wonder how the company avoids false advertising lawsuits and/or > >penalties. > > The label claims that 50 hormones are in Superthrive, yet only > > one, > >NAA, is actually listed as an ingredient. Hmm... I haven't read my ST label 'cause it's pretty ugly, but I did read the back about NAA and agree that it's the only one listed. I wonder though, if there are several different isomers (or maybe even more than 50) of NAA. I doubt it because I have the impression that it's a fairly small molecule. > > Does anybody know what the mystery 49 hormones are? Not yet, Dave Evans P.S. I'm not sure if it works on Nepenthes, but it I'm a hundred % positive that will increase foliar embryo production in Drosera by about a factor of 3 to 4, at least on leaves of species that will strike. No, I haven't done an exactly the same conditions, side by side test; but after years of striking leaf cuttings in all sort of different conditions I have had just about the same rate. Now using ST, I get about four times as many plants from the same sized leaves. It didn't work on D.linearis, though I used leaves from the end of season so perhaps the plant was already too far into dormancy for the leaves to strike... Any ideas on that? Oh well, I'll try and end this one again, Dave E ################### From: Dickie Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:21:35 +0800 Subject: ICPS logo contest Greetings... I have a web page up and running displaying some of my designs for the ICPS logo contest. and i would like to invite other members working on designs ... to mail me their designs and i will gladly display them on the site! :-) check out www.88.com/revenge/index.htm regards Dickie bungee@XXXhklink.net (take out the triple x to use this address) ################### From: KILSMOOTH@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:17:17 EST Subject: Re:Heliams Hello list! Warning: If you get a piece of email stating"Free Heliams",erase immediately,it's a virus!{hehehe,just kidding!}I am looking to buy a mass quantity of Heliams though....Species unimportant. Please email me if you have some. Enjoy C.P.!, Brian :) ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:26:23 -0800 Subject: Flourescent Lights and possible Danger to those who fiddle Charles I note Phill's advice that you can get cheaper light fittings in UK from an electricians supply shop. You can do so in Australia also but:- It might be worth considering whether fluorescent lights provide sufficient light for your needs. You might need a high pressure discharge lamp of 400 to 1000 watts to provide sufficient light for your plants. You may be able to compensate for reduced lighting by using carbon dioxide at 1000 ppm in the atmosphere (instead of the usual 300 ppm). However as 5000 ppm of carbon dioxide can kill you it is not advisable to try this indoors, particularly in homes that are tightly closed up in the winter. Perhaps a determination of actual lighting intensity required for various plants should be decided upon first. (I really can't help as in Sydney, Australia all my plants are outdoors all year.) Adapting commercial fluorescent fittings:- There is an important aspect associated with adapting electrical appliances rather than just buying them. That is you must know enough about electricity to do it at all and to do it safely. Lack of knowledge of the electrical theory and electrical installations in the USA (or indeed in any country) could cause you to waste your money or, as you fiddle with the fitting, to kill yourself or a loved one. It is difficult to go into the exact details as I do not have intimate knowledge of the USA electrical installations but I hope that amongst the many members of the list there is an US electrician who could elaborate on the specific practical details as they apply in the USA. To start the "ball rolling" I present the most likely possible scenarios below:- If the following bores you then I apologise. But if you do not understand all of it then you should not fiddle with electrical equipment. Even if you understand it you cannot assume that all members of the digest do. The single phase voltage in UK and Australia (and, I believe in most countries) is between 220 to 250. It varies country to country. There is an international standard agreement to go to 220 volts eventually. The fluorescent lights sold for use with phase voltages of 220 to 250 volts can be effected cheaply as there is ample "spare" voltage available to enable the current limiting function of a ballast and to "strike" the "warmed" tube by adding the back voltage of the ballast to the supply voltage as the starter opens. This type incorporates a thermal starter which flicks on off to induce a back voltage (generated in the ballast inductor) which adds to the voltage to the mains supply to fire the tube. The starter keeps flickering until it "opens the circuit" at a time near enough to the peak of the AC (sinusoidal Alternating Current) wave so that a sufficient voltage to fire the tube is generated. While the starter circuit is closed the filaments of the tube are being heated to reduce the tube firing voltage required. Once the tube has "fired", the ballast acts as a current limiter. Without the ballast to limit the current (as the tube's resistance falls instantly as it gets hot) once the tube fires it would blow up in milliseconds and bits of glass would be propelled about the room. As I understand it the single phase voltage (in the power point, power outlet, appliance socket, or whatever else you call it) in USA is 110 to 120 volts. Fluorescent lights for 120 volts would need to incorporate a "step up transformer":- This could be implemented in one of two ways:- 1) "instant start" . (i.e. no flickering to start) As there has to be a step up transformer to provide the "spare" voltage, the step up transformer's "open circuit" output voltage is made to be several hundreds of volts initially to "fire the tube" without using a starter. (This is sometimes called cold start as the tube filaments are not heated to assist starting. Hence the firing voltage must be several hundred volts.) Then the magnetically leaky transformer (between the primary and secondary windings .... designed to be so) causes the loaded output voltage (fictional point in electrical circuit theory which makes the maths easier) to drop to around 200 volts, while the impedance of the secondary winding limits the current through the fluorescent tube. (Step up transformer and ballast inductor are magnetically interconnected and in the one can.) ("Instant start" or "Cold Start" types are sold for 220 to 250 volt supply also.) 2) Alternatively you might find that a 110 - 120 volt fluorescent light fitting has a step up (to around 220V) transformer fitted as well as the current limiting ballast. This transformer would not be magnetically leaky and would be a separate unit magnetically, even though it might be in the same can as the ballast. The ballast starter combination generate the firing voltage. This type flickers when first switched on. (Some more modern, 110 to 120 volt, fluorescent ballasts may be "electronic" but they will still need to "step up the voltage" to fire the tube and provide some "spare" voltage across their current limiting circuitry.) In large scale industrial or commercial lighting installations the premises would probably have its electrical load spread over two or three phases. (I won't elaborate on what a phase is. It would take me all day and confuse you.) While I don't know what is actually done in the USA I suspect that commercial light fittings may be wired across two phases (of a 3 phase system) thus operating on (square root 3) x 120 volts = 1.732 x 120 = 207 volts (1.732 x 110 = 190 volts). While the ballast (inductor, choke) would be different than that for 220 to 250 volt use, it is possible to use the simpler (and cheaper) ballast with thermal starter and without a 110 to 220 volt transformer in each light fitting. Thus if you buy a commercial type fitting in the USA it may not be able to be used in your home simply plugged into a 110 volt power outlet. In the USA it may be possible to have a two phase 220V power outlet installed in your home. You could buy a 110 to 220 volt transformer large enough to run several lights. But in some remote rural locations there may only be a single phase supply available. The fact that the USA uses 60 Hz vrs 50 Hz frequency of electricity does not affect the above voltage considerations. It does have an effect on the design of the components used though. You need to consult an electrician or a friend who has electrical knowledge to determine what is going on. It's not possible for me to do so from Australia. The point is you need expert advice in the USA. Perhaps there is a requirement to be licensed to work on electrical installations in the USA. There is in Australia. Sorry about the complication but I felt compelled to warn you. Electricity can kill you if you don't know what you are doing. Consult an expert. There are other special types of fluorescent lights, including battery operated and those with electronic drivers. I did not address these matters as I presume that what you seek are cheap, reliable lights. Even battery powered fluorescent lights generate dangerous voltages inside. High pressure discharge lamps also present the same minimum supply voltage problems as do fluorescent tubes as I outline above Regards Denis Daly dalymob@bigpond.com (There is no .au on the end. Yes it is in Australia.) ################### From: red1@humboldt1.com (Sylvia De Rooy) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:41:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: tissue culture I am looking for "recipes" for tissue culture and info on what cp's are best to use for tissue culture. Thanks for any info anyone may care to share. Would also like to ditto the messages that some have posted about not assuming a cp is dead- give it time to be sure. Craig Gardner sent me some wonderful plants and I thought I had killed a drosera. It turned black shortly after I had potted it up (I didn't want to tell you, Craig) but I decided to give it time. It is now sending up lovely green arms into the air. ################### From: "Adao Pereira." Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 00:27:56 +0100 Subject: Hi everyone! Hi! I've just subscribed to the CP listserver. My interest in CPs has been growing since I saw a VFT when I was a kid, and some years ago, I bought my first one, but it died after producing seeds, and the seeds don't grow. In fact, most CPs I bought died after flowering except Drosera capensis and Pinguicula. Right now, I'm trying to grow Sarracenia purpurea seeds: I've put them in the refridgerator and I'm waiting till Spring to expose them to the sunlight. Is this OK? Miguel Porto ################### From: "Bernadette Png" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 15:51:37 +0800 Subject: Pot too big? Hello. I've just finished re-potting my VFT. Now I hope it doesn't die! But I've seem to have too little soil. The plastic pot is about 15 cm, and the soil has filled up to only 3 cm below the top. When I put the plant in it, it looked so small and sunk. Some soil has also landed on the triggers. What should I do? Is it alright? Bernie --- Bernadette Png Singapore parrotzfreak@usa.net http://www.cyberway.com.sg/~hoglet ICQ - #6931263 Petz: Ginny (Bull Terrier) Pokes (VFT) ################### From: KILSMOOTH@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 06:57:44 EST Subject: Re: CITES and phytosanitary.... Hello List!! Bri here...I'm planning on getting a large order of Heliams and Drosera from the Czech Republic....The problem is that i haven't dealt with overseas C.P.ers in quite a few years...Would some one please tell me what i need and the cost roughly, to import these plants into the U.S.Some are T.C.,some are bareroot{if that matters at all :) } ....Any help or imput welcomed!! Thanks to all,and Enjoy C.P. !! Brian Barnes in Fl. ################### From: Oreophila@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 14:00:41 EST Subject: Brochinea Reducta Hi, Oreophila here ( Bill Hoyer) I have a Brochinea R. that is in need of transplanting. I would like to hear of any good planting media mixes somone might have, and how large of a pot it likes. Bill Hoyer ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 14:03:31 -0500 Subject: Re: N. ventricosa or burkei? >N burkei, in my opinion isn't even a subspecies. Just N. ventricosa with the name >N. burkei stuck on the label next to it. Now, the plants labelled with N burkei tend >to be larger for the same conditions compared with those labelled N ventricosa, but so >what? Dave, I would have agreed with you 100% a few weeks ago. Then I saw a REAL N. burkei. It is in a collection here in south Florida, where it is now gaining size and producing pitchers with our cool winter nights. It is a young plant, but is most definitely not a ventricosa, nor does it look like any of the hybrids I have seen. Leaf/growth habit is like ventricosa, but the pitchers are different. No doubt it is related, as are N bellii, and N. merrilliana. I intend to take pictures of it in another couple of months as the plant gains size. I will also consult with the owner about where it came from and any other information that may be useful. We both would have agreed with you about n ventricosa: ie. burkei is nothing more than a variety of ventricosa. But then this young plant, a so called N. burkei, began to "grow up". As far as I'm concerned, at this time, N. burkei is a separate species. It is a one and only plant, so I am hesitant to name the owner without permission. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: "Frank Wolpert" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:16:48 +0200 Subject: Cephalotus What is the best method to get Cephalotus seeds to germinate? I have tried various methods including stratification with no success. Frank Wolpert ################### From: jwallace@mail1.nai.net (Frederick John Wallace) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:22:38 -0500 (EST) Subject: label markers? Hi, Does anyone have a marker for labels that lasts. I tried permanent ink and that fades, pen and pencil rub off... any advice appreciated. Thanks! Jon ################### From: jpm Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 18:39:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Brocchinia reducta Hi Bill- My name is Jonathan Mitchell; I have a B. reducta plant that I have had for almost a year now, and it has done very well for me. It is almost 9" tall and is producing several pups. I grow it in peat-sand, with a bit more sand than peat. You might also throw some perlite in. I keep it in one of those one gallon black plastic pots, as it has a very large root system. A bigger pot might be even better. I also think it is important to keep the soil very dry. Good luck- Jonathan ################### From: "angela nichols" Date: Sun, 01 Feb 98 21:23:51 PST Subject: Hi CPers Hi. My name is Angie. I have been growing CP for 20+ years. My main interests are Heliamphora and Nepenthes all kinds of CP. Can anyone tell me what to do for my blooming (from the vase and the roots) B. reducta to get viable seed? Thanks. ################### From: "Aaron Carlson" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:40:23 -0600 Subject: a couple of questions Hello everyone. I have a couple of questions. First, does anybody know the exact parentage of the hybrid Sarracenias being offered by Niche Gardens? i believe their names are "ladies in waiting" and "dixie lace". Second, when do flowers first start poking up from Sarracenias? I have a psittXleuco that looks as if one is starting to form at the crown, but I can't really tell yet. Third, I just bought a couple of Nepenthes madagascarensis from a Lowe's here in town and was wondering what temp. and light requirements would best suit this species. Thanks in advance, Aaron Carlson ################### From: Pnsamm@aol.com Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 22:14:23 EST Subject: Nepenthes ampullaria concern Dear enthusiasts, I have a question concerning the slow, almost nil growth of my N. ampullaria over the past several months. Moreover, I am seeing no pitcher development. I am growing two plants in a sealed 10 gallon aquarium (plenty of humidity I should think). I keep two 40 watt flourescent tubes above the plants, a typical shoplight, around 12 inches from the nepenthes. The tank temperature is around 74 F. Maybe the problem is insufficient light? Too low temperature? Any ideas? Thank You, Peter ################### From: ALVIN.CHIN@chase.com Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:18:07 -0500 Subject: no e-mail this address is no longer valid thank you ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 23:09:54 -0500 Subject: main bounce back If there is a Danny Summit on this list, could you contact me privately. My reply to you keeps bouncing back. Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome ################### From: AL850R Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 22:17:47 -0800 Subject: SARRACENIA SEEDS Thanks David Mellard, I really appreciate your generosity for giving giving me free Sarracenia Seeds. They arrived nicely labeled and with plenty of seeds in a cushioned envelope. The problem is, I need some instructions on how to start off with them. Please help, anyone! Thanks, -A.L.- ################### From: Guy.VanDerKinderen@rug.ac.be Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 08:10:51 +0000 Subject: Free CP seeds and BG Gent Hi everybody, especially Wim, Some digests ago, I discovered a rather strange remark in the 'free' seed list of Wim Leys. > purpurea purpurea origin : Botanical Garden Ghent > (mislabelled, is probably a hybrid between S. purpurea purpurea and S. We're still wondering what the value may be to the people who may be interested to have these seeds? Or is there another purpose? It has been always the policy of BG Gent to leave the CP collection to the concern of CP Society Drosera, namely its board. In the period Mr. Leys took or got this plant from BG Gent, he was member of this board. But it was clear at that time, that certain people where more concerned about their own collection, than checking for instance the BG collection for possible wrong labels, as they were supposed to have some expertise in CP taxonomy. It was also clear that certain people tried to use the Society as an area of distribution for their own trades, and BG Gent as a source for it. They still are harvesting the seeds of it. Fortunately, times have changed. Sincerely, Guy Van der Kinderen Chairman vzw. Drosera Free-lance co-operator of BG Gent ################### From: wOb Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:52:49 +0100 Subject: CP: Off topic: RE: Subject: Itsy bitsy virus warning... Gerrie Buckley[SMTP:gbuckley@ilink.nis.za] wrote: > > VIRUS WARNING !!!!!! > > If you receive an email titled "JOIN THE CREW" DO NOT open > > it. Once again: This alert is a hoax......... see: http://www.kumite.com/myths/ for more info. Sorry for this off topic message. Happy growing to all. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyril 'wOb' Fournillon Drop me a message: cyril.fournillon@inforoute.cgs.fr wOb@mail.dotcom.fr wOb@chez.com Visit my HomePage: http://www.inforoute.cgs.fr/fournill [Voice: +33 1 42 21 78 03] [Fax: +33 1 42 21 76 88] [ICQ: 1397712] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! I'm a .signature virus (mutant version), copy me to your .signature file to join in. ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:05:39 -0000 Subject: Would the real red pulchella stand up please I saw an RHS colour chart at the weekend. 37B is a very washed out pink and 69A is a pale-lilac-purple. Is there a form of Drosera pulchella which a normal human being would claim to have a red flower? Just for the record, my 69A is flowering at the moment, and it is a rather pretty rose pink. Perhaps my question is irrelevant and it depends on the plant's environment. Good Growing, NigelH ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:01:34 -0000 Subject: Pygmy Grower's Eyeball I suffered an attack of pygmy grower's eyeball yesterday. You are carefully harvesting the gemmae from a pygmy sundew when 'ping', a lone gemma defies gravity and Newton's laws of motion and flies upwards and backwards, landing on your eyeball. If you are married, you can seek sympathy from your partner, reassuring them that it is just one of the risks involved with such a dangerous and exciting hobby. If the gemma is large and chunky (eg scorpioides), it is relatively easy to remove. If the gemma is from a choice species, you should leave it there. If you are 30, with 2 eyeballs, you have had the benefit of 60 eyeball-years. If you received 10 sewelliae gemmae in the summer and 6 months later they are all just about dead (normal for the UK), you have had the benefit of 5 sewelliae-years. The latter is obviously far more precious. If the gemma is from a pernicious weed like 'Lake Badgerup' (like mine yesterday), obviously you want to remove it. Unfortunately the gemma is flat and sticks like glue and needs substantial irrigation to shift it. Ouch! NigelH ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 17:59:53 -0700 Subject: Re: label markers? jwallace@mail1.nai.net (Frederick John Wallace) writes: >Does anyone have a marker for labels that lasts. I tried permanent ink >and that fades, pen and pencil rub off... any advice appreciated. > I would be interested in this as well as i am currently growing a Nepenthes I call N. "unknown" because the label faded beyond legibility. I am currently using waxy pencils intended for marking tiles and I'm happy with their durability but they do not have a very fine point. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: Al Bickell Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 07:20:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: stratification Hi everyone, I have a question for the experts on the list. Is it necessary to stratify Darlingtonia seeds in order to have them germinate? Al Bickell Alan Bickell Canadian Tissue Culture Laboratory Web Site ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 02 Feb 1998 14:06:30 +0100 Subject: Mr Lowries forthcoming publications - take 2 I tried to send this message last week but it didn't appear on the digest due to some listserver problem, anyway I'll try again: Dear Fernando, Nigel, Jan etc. >I believe Allen may publish it soon >as a subspecies of B.liniflora. Anyways, it is not an easy >one to grow and >also sets seeds only when hand-pollinated (and I think it >needs the help of a >tuning fork as well). Perhaps all will be revealed in the next Nuytsia? I had a phone conversation with Allen last Sunday and he mentioned that several items should be appearing from him in Nuytsia. Amongst a new Utric and trigger plants he also mentioned Byblis but he didn't go into further details. kind regards Loyd ################### From: "Phill Mann" Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 21:12:29 PST Subject: New Home Page Hi to all the digest members, many of you I already know. I have finally managed to get my home page underway and although it is = still a little rough around the edges at least it is up and going now. For the dedicated Nepenthes collectors there are over 70 photographs incl= uded including some new species and some that have never been seen before= such as:- N. argentii - (Cheek & Jebb) A miniature species and smallest of all = Nepenthes from the Philippines. N. sibuyanensis - A new species about to be named that comes from = the Philippines also, with very large pitchers. N. klossii - Until now has not been seen since 1913 when first = collected in Irian Jaya. N. paniculata - also from Irian Jaya not seen since 1920. N. petiolata - Philippines. This is what is now classed as the = true form of N. petiolata not the plant described = by Kurata. N. philippinensis(?) - Until now this has been grouped with N. = alata but needs closely studying as with = many Philippine species. N. species (?) - A large new species from central Irian Jaya. N. x trusmadiensis - N.macrophylla x lowii a natural hybrid from = Mt Trusmadi Sabah, Borneo. And a heap of others. I hope you enjoy them. Phill MANN P.O. Box 193 Harvey 6220 Western Australia 61 (0) 8 97293417 philmann@altu.net.au SPECIALISING IN NEPENTHES ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:43:00 -0500 Subject: RE: a little advice..- i need it lol >If anyone can help me with some facts about care for these cp, it would >be greatly appreciated. Hi Neal, You can find a lot of culture information at Barry Meyers-Rice's website: www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/faq/faq.html After reading the above, if you have specific questions, I'm sure someone on the list will gladly help you. David ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 00:25:45 +0800 Subject: Re: New Home Page Hey Phil, you forgot to give the address of your Homepage.... ------------------------------------------------------------ Contact me at fytdw@hkabc.net or byblis@hotmail.com Ckeck out my CP Homepage on http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 18:28:19 Subject: Re: New Home Page Dear Phill, dear Listeners, > For the dedicated Nepenthes collectors there are over 70 photographs incl= > uded including some new species and some that have never been seen before= > such as:-(...) The URL that you have forgotten to mention is: http://webnews.altu.net.au/~philmann/page##.html (replace ## by number) For those who have only the time to download the interesting pages, go to ##: 7 ("sibuyanensis"), 14 ("new" sp.), 15 (lamii, paniculata), 21 (argentii, petiolata) NB: N. sibuyanensis is not (yet) a valid name and should therefore not have been published this way at this moment. The allegedly new species is close to _N. insignis_. We will have to wait for a description or better pictures that will clarify the difference. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 19:20:32 +0100 Subject: Burkei versus Ventricosa Hi Dave For what I've seen, in my books, it's actually (as you said) a coloration difference. Ventricosa has a green or 'cream-yellow' pitcher with vive red peristom. Burkei is more tending to purple, but the whole pitcher has a pronounced red coloration, this increases with the age of the plant and the sun exposition. This mix between the two colours gives a brown-red color, with red veines. I've seen a cephalotus pitcher turning to yellow in a few days. Will it die soon ? Mimosa Pudica : seems the plantlets are sensitives (sure, hey)...to the sun and can be severely burned ! Watch out... In the same way, expose the plant to a cool wind and it immediately closes his leaves. Laurent ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 12:52:46 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: label markers? try Charley's greenhouse supplies in Washington State. I use his markers with excellent results. They run about $3.00 each, but they have been the best yet. Also don't discount using a pencil. They never fade and seem to last as long as the label does unless you rub on the marker. I also use a silver paint pencil that you can get from any hobby shop or kmart. I don't know the name right off, but this silver paint pencil last for years. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ jwallace@mail1.nai.net (Frederick John Wallace) writes: >Does anyone have a marker for labels that lasts. I tried permanent ink >and that fades, pen and pencil rub off... any advice appreciated. > I would be interested in this as well as i am currently growing a Nepenthes I call N. "unknown" because the label faded beyond legibility. I am currently using waxy pencils intended for marking tiles and I'm happy with their durability but they do not have a very fine point. ################### From: tundae@juno.com Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 15:35:09 EST Subject: Interviewee from Somalia Greetings I have one question: Is anyone out there a current resident of Somalia or familiar enough with the culture to participate in a short cyber interview? Questions would be about current events, customs, etc..... Anyone intrested can e-mail me at Tundae@juno.com and I will send you a list of questions. All responses would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 16:07:00 -0500 Subject: Spectacular Sarr Hybrid At the following URL, you will find a spectacular Sarracenia hybrid: http://www.jps.net/cgardner/DaveM-1.jpg. What you can't see in the picture is that the underside of the hood is the same color as the rim of the pitcher. Those that went on the field trip sponsored by the Atlanta Botanical Gardens and ICPS will remember this plant from a growers' field in south Alabama. Ron Gagliardo said something about doing some tissue culture with it but I haven't heard if he did or not. Now for some fun. Can you guess the parentage or better yet how and in what order would you breed species and hybrids to get this jewel? Does this resembe any of the hybrids I see listed occassionally? It's a very tall plant, on the order of a large flava or leucophylla and the pitcher at the rim is very large. Many thanks to Craig for putting this picture on his website. David ################### From: Dori Arazi Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 00:03:30 +0200 Subject: VFT Propagation Hi, Is there any way to propagate VFT other than seed germination? (even anything as elaborate as chemical stimulation of samples in a petry dish or something?) ****** *Dori* ****** ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 18:50 EST Subject: Re: Re: N. ventricosa or burkei? > Dave, I would have agreed with you 100% a few weeks ago. Then I saw a > REAL N. burkei. It is in a collection here in south Florida, where it > is now gaining size and producing pitchers with our cool winter nights. > It is a young plant, but is most definitely not a ventricosa, nor does > it look like any of the hybrids I have seen. Leaf/growth habit is like > ventricosa, but the pitchers are different. Hello Trent, Could you please explain what the differences are? So far, I have not been able to understand what those differences are, besides for color and size. Something about the angle of the lid compared to that of the peristome? I did look at the photos displayed on Johanna Marabini's web-page, but still didn't notice the difference. Feeling left out of the N.burkei loop, Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 19:06 EST Subject: Re: stratification > I have a question for the experts on the list. Is it necessary to stratify > Darlingtonia seeds in order to have them germinate? No, Dave Evans ################### From: Matt Miller Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 18:56:27 -0800 Subject: New CP Propagation Section Hello, My new section on the propagation of different types of CP has now been added to my web page at: http://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/propigat.htm I invite you all to come and see it. Some of it was written from my experiences and some was written from what I have read and heard in CP books and over the internet. If there is any info on it that is not accurate please e-mail me privatly and make me aware of it so it can be changed. As before I will still graciously accept any photos that are relevant to the page. It is a section of my origional CP web site at: http://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/main.htm If your not busy you can check out the rest of the page as well, along with the updated Specific Growing Instructions Section. Thank you to all that have contributed photos to the rest of you for making this such an interesting and enjoyable hobby, Matt Miller ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 20:02 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes ampullaria concern Dear Peter, > I have a question concerning the slow, almost nil growth of my N. > ampullaria over the past several months. Moreover, I am seeing no > pitcher development. I am growing two plants in a sealed 10 gallon > aquarium (plenty of humidity I should think). I keep two 40 watt > flourescent tubes above the plants, a typical shoplight, around 12 > inches from the nepenthes. The tank temperature is around 74 F. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ During the day and night? Anyway, if that's you highest temp for the day, I think your plant is feeling a bit chilly. After watching my lowlanders for several years. (Each year I have more and the older ones keep getting bigger and changes in humidity and temp seem to affect the larger plants even more than the little ones...) I have noticed that lowland Neps, like N.ampullaria and N.rafflesiana stall out in winter. Oddly, it seems to take awhile for the lowered temps to slow the growth of lowlanders, while too much heat quickly shows it's face by stopping the growth of pitchers in highlanders. Dave Evans ################### From: mulyk@zoology.ubc.ca (Dean Mulyk) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 17:28:03 -0700 Subject: where to buy Nepenthes in Canada Hi all; No doubt a somewhat oft asked question, but can anyone recommend a Canadian source for Nepenthes? Dean S. Mulyk mulyk@zoology.ubc.ca Dept. of Zoology University of British Columbia Vancouver, British Columbia CANADA V6T 1Z4 "Dogs can smell fear and so do dentists!" ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:53:40 -0000 Subject: Nepenthes Madagascariensis for trade/sale UPDATE Hello CP collectors, The Nepenthes Madagascariensis that I mentioned in previous postings may be for sale at a nursery near me are indeed, unfortunately, $14.95 each right now. As their supply dwindles and the plants decline in health, they may lower the price of the leftover plants to $4.95 as they have in the past. At $14.95 a plant, plus S&H, it is not really saving much (or any) money if you were to buy it from the nursery, or have me send one to you acting as a middleman between you and the nursery (at no additional cost). Numerous CP suppliers offer Nepenthes Madagascariensis at this price, maybe better, so I would personally suggest buying from them if you want one. If you still would like to buy one from the nursery, I would be happy to give you their address and phone number, and/or arrange for them to send you one or I can buy one and send it to you with a receipt. Sincerely, Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: manda@freeyellow.com Date: Mon, 02 Feb 98 22:42:51 EST Subject: Free Advertising For Your Business! Hi, Just wanted to pass along some info about a new piece of software I now call my "secret weapon". It's amazing! Listen to this... Me and hundreds of others can now reach "millions of potential customers" - absolutely FREE! A lot of us are creating immediate "cash flow explosions" - literally overnight! And blowing our competition right out of the water! You have to check this thing out. To get some details, all you have to do is visit our website and you'll get some information: http://206.133.27.106/~macs/netcontact.html Simple. Take care. I'll talk with you later. Mike :-) ______________________________________________ To Be Removed, reply with "remove" in the subject. Or Register with antispam.org ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 23:10:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Silica sand After a few weeks of scouring hardware stores for silica sand, I finally tracked it down at a place here in Tampa called Colorock which is in the Yellow Pages under Building Supplies/Wholesale. All of the Home Depot-type stores I tried said they used to carry it, but now that pre-mixed concrete "ready-mix" is most common, there's no need to carry sand and conrete mix separately. Colorock is a building materials wholsaler, so they have tons of the stuff for people who need tons of concrete at a time where it's still cheaper to mix it instead of buy ready-mixed. Who ever thought sand would be so hard to find in Florida? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:32:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: Angie's B. reducta Hi Angie, I have had two B. reducta bloom now and report the following. The tiny flowers rarely open except in bright sunlight, and then it seemed, only when I was not looking. When I did catch one open, (they did not open more then one at a time, though there were at least 50 flowers on the scape, and a dozen scapes on the plant) it would not self. Pollen taken from one of the basal scape flowers to one of the upper flowers would not set either. Unfortunatly, the two plants that bloomed missed each other by about a month so I could not out cross. In my opinion, it is futile to expect seed. Concentrate on getting pups. If you can, trade off your surplus for different clones so that you have a better chance of successful crossing. Good luck, and let me know what happens. This is one of my favorite plants. good growing Andrew Marshall ################### From: Craig S Gardner Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 22:11:11 -0800 Subject: Re: stratification (Darlingtonia) I have germinated hundreds of Darlingtonia seeds and have never stratified any of them and always get very close to 100 percent germination. > I have a question for the experts on the list. Is it necessary to stratify > Darlingtonia seeds in order to have them germinate? > Al Bickell -- Happy Growing Craig S. Gardner 173 Perry St. Ukiah, Ca. 95482 USA (707)462-5331 (707)468-1175 ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 08:51:26 +0100 Subject: re: FREE CP seeds part II to JoHn Dear John I've tried to e-mail you privately, but the message bounced back. Here it is again. Please send your SAE together with a list of the seeds you'd like. Kind regards Wim Wim Leys Bierbeekstraat 30 3360 Korbeek-Lo Belgium Europe ################### From: koudela@ure.cas.cz Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:45:58 +0000 Subject: Lowrie Vol.3 Dear List, I hope everyone enjoys the info I got from the University of Western Australia Press although it is not too positive :-( Perhaps someone who speaks to Allen (hi Loyd, Eric) could ask him which species exactly will be covered. SPECIES COVERED IN VOL 3 Drosera: -tuberous -pygmy -tropical -miscellaneous Australian species -Utricularia -Nepenthes -Byblis -Aldrovanda -Cephalotus The book is now scheduled for release in August 1998. Most of the book is being typeset at present. Best regards, Ivo *************************************************** * Mgr. Ivo Koudela * * work address: home address: * * IREE AS Okruzni 25/21 * * Chaberska 57 Zdar nad Sazavou * * 182 51 Prague 8 591 01 * * Czech Republic Czech Republic * * tel: +422 6881804 * * fax: +422 6880222 * * e-mail: koudela@ure.cas.cz * *************************************************** ################### From: Joe Harden Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:46:00 -0600 Subject: Soil Acidifier I know I am not the only one out there that bought one of those Home Depot N. magadensis...and I hear of some of you out there with the leaves turning yellow. I tried out a soil acidifier, and I already am seeing a difference...and anyhow, a lot of CP's like this type of condition so here it goes... I bought Green Light brand "iron 4.6% @ Soil Acidifier"...I used the directions for a 6" pot, and cut the application in 1/2 just because this is CP and I really don't want to burn the plants. The reason for the iron applications? Iron chelates are very helpful for any plant - they help the plant in absorbing nutrients through the soil, mainly nitrogen. This is the weakest solution I found on the shelf, and even though I cut the dosage in half, My leaves seem to turning a nicer shade of green after 3 weeks. Also...for anyone that puts VFT's in their fridge for dormancy..my tip to you is DRY OUT THAT SOIL!!! I put 12 VFT's in my fridge, some with soaking wet medium, some with semi wet medium, and others with just about dry (not crumbly dry). 3 of 4 with wet medium were trashed...1 of 4 of the semi-wet was dead (good odds) but all my plants in dry soil are happy! That's all I got to say today...I'm monkey around with other Non-CP today (non cp, but cool plants)! Joe Harden ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 07:04:15 PST Subject: Re: Spectacular Sarr hybrid David wrote: >Now for some fun. Can you guess the parentage or better yet how and >in what order would you breed species and hybrids to get this jewel? >It's a very tall plant, on the order of a large flava or leucophylla >and the pitcher at the rim is very large. You just mentioned the parents. Although this clone looks more spectacular than most, it is a simple SXflava x leucophylla. And judging from the photo, I would say the flava parent is the "cut throat" (rugelii) variety. Pretty plants like this one are what make Sarr hybridizing such an art; you could make this same cross with several different parents and still never create something so spectacular. For those of you that have ordered Dr.Mellichamp's "Ladies-in-Waiting" and "Dixie Lace," you'll be getting the product of an artist's efforts. Can you tell I like these plants? All the best, Stefan ################### From: Denis Daly Date: Mon, 02 Feb 1998 21:55:14 -0800 Subject: Cephalotus Seed. Is it Recalcitrant? Dear Frank and list I have found that Cephalotus seed need to be sown almost immediately they are harvested in autumn. They will remain in the pot (moist) until spring when they will germinate. I used a batch of seeds collected from my own plants. Half were sown immediately (in autumn and germinated the following spring) while half were stored over winter and sown in spring. None germinated. [2] I believe that Cephalotus seeds are likely to be Recalcitrant. Moist cold storage (stratification) is useless if the seeds have dried out and died before you stratified them. The term recalcitrant is applied to seeds that remain viable for as little as a few days, months, or at most a year. [1]. However recalcitrant seeds are short lived primarily due to their sensitivity to reduced moisture content. [1] Recalcitrant seeds must retain a reasonably high moisture content of around 30 to 50% if they are to remain capable of germination. [1] The time of viability of most recalcitrant seeds, particularly temperate species, can be increased if the seeds are stored moist at temperatures just above freezing. [1] Seeds likely to be Recalcitrant:- 1) Seeds that are produced in spring or early summer and germinate very soon after they fall to the ground. [1] (e.g. Dionaea, Sarracenia (possibly if it's early enough in the season), Highland Nepenthes, certain Drosera, Heliamphora.) 2) Seeds of tropical plants that grow under conditions of high humidity and temperature. [1] (e.g. Lowland Nepenthes, some Mexican Pinguicula, certain Drosera.) 3) Seeds that mature in Autumn and spend the winter in moist or even frozen soil awaiting the spring. [1] (e.g. Dionaea, Sarracenia, Darlingtonia, Heliamphora, Cephalotus, certain Drosera, Utricularia, N. khasiana, US & European and some Mexican Pinguicula) 4) Many seeds of temperate aquatic plants. [1] (e.g. Aquatic Utricularia, Genlisea, Aldrovanda,) While I have cited various species of carnivorous plants to fall into the categories of natural seed storage that can lead to the species evolving Recalcitrant seeds it should be noted that it does not necessarily follow that the seeds are Recalcitrant. I do not have scientific proof but I believe that the possibility that many carnivorous plant seeds are Recalcitrant. Note that stratification is the same as moist cold storage. What matters is how much the seed might dry out before you put it into stratification (moist cold storage). For details see reference 3. References [1] HARMANN Hudson T., KESTER Dale E. & DAVIES Fred T. JR, Plant Propagation Principles and Practices, Prentice Hall Career and Technology, New Jersey, Fifth Edition, 1990, ISBN 0-13-681016-0. [2] DALY Denis, Propagation of some Specific Species of Carnivorous Plants, FlyTrap News Vol 9 No 1, July/August/September, 1995, The Carnivorous Plant society of NSW, ISSN 1323-8159. [3] DALY Denis, Storage of seeds .... are we killing them?, FlyTrap News Vol 10 No 4, April/May/June, 1997, The Carnivorous Plant society of NSW, ISSN 1323-8159. Regards Denis Daly P.S. Food for thought? ################### From: Chris Marsden Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:19:25 -0500 Subject: Re: label markers Jon, and I guess this is of interest to all, there was a discussion about marking labels on the Aroid-L a while ago, a= nd there I picked up the following tips: o To read faded labels read them under UV light (but obviously be careful= !) o To remove marker pen use nail varnish remover (acetone) o The best pen to use is 'Sharpie' extra permanent industrial marker. I g= ot mine from a flower show in the UK but I gather it is also available in th= e USA. It has lasted in sun and rain for years with no fading, it has a fin= e tip and is easy to write with and read. It is expensive, but it is worth = it (mine cost I think 4 GBP). Kindest Regards, Toby -------------------- Toby Marsden -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- ------- Orleton Manor, Orleton, LUDLOW, Salop, SY8 4HR, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- ------- ################### From: Dori Arazi Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:21:00 +0200 Subject: Aquatic CP Hello , I am looking for a good way to obtain aquatic CP ( as specially the Aldrovanda ). I have a 60 gallon aquarium which I split in half by a glass plate into a terrarium / aquarium. What type of water do I use for them. what aquatic insects should I grow for food? Do they grow under the same conditions I keep my terrestrial plants? Any help will be most welcome thanks ****** *Dori* ****** ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 12:23:01 -0700 Subject: N. philippinensis Phil Mann's excellent web page has several pictures labelled "N. philippinensis?" (note question mark). I have a plant that was labelled N. alata 'philippinensis' when I got it that I have blithely assumed should now be labelled N. phillipinensis. Superficially, my plants do not look that much like the pictures on Phil's page, but then it appears that Phil is not certain of the identity of the pictured plants either. Can anyone give advice on how to differentiate N. phillipinensis from say a red alata? Thanks, Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: MaxxKills@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 16:05:15 EST Subject: Re: Cephalotus In a message dated 98-02-01 17:29:04 EST, you write: << What is the best method to get Cephalotus seeds to germinate? I have tried various methods including stratification with no success. >> Ceph seeds go bad in a hurry. Lee ################### From: RSbra123@aol.com Date: Tue, 3 Feb 1998 20:23:57 EST Subject: Re: label markers > Jon, and I guess this is of interest to all, > > there was a discussion about marking labels on the Aroid-L a while ago, and > there I picked up the following tips: > > o To read faded labels read them under UV light (but obviously be careful!) > > o To remove marker pen use nail varnish remover (acetone) > > o The best pen to use is 'Sharpie' extra permanent industrial marker. I got > mine from a flower show in the UK but I gather it is also available in the > USA. It has lasted in sun and rain for years with no fading, it has a fine > tip and is easy to write with and read. It is expensive, but it is worth it > (mine cost I think 4 GBP). > On a related note, I heard good suggestion at a BACPS meeting a while back. It was suggested to make a second label and slide it completely below the soil level (shorten it if necessary). Then you have a backup if the first label gets removed or fades. Ron Sbragia ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:23:25 -0500 Subject: Re:Nepenthes ampullaria concerns Peter, In addition to Dave Evans comments; here in Florida, in my "greenhouse" , winter temps get up to 85 degrees F during sunny days, but may be down to 58-64 degrees F the same night. Once temps drop below 55, I turn on the heat. Humidity will vary, dropping as low as 55% during the few warmest hours, but as soon as temps drop it may soar back up to around 70-80%. My ampullarias, from tiny tissue cultured babies to medium sized plants, all seem to like this. I get big, colorful pitchers. However, they do slow down to a painstaking pace. They are never fast growers, even in the summer. I believe the shorter days of winter is the main culprit for the slowdown of growth. I notice you are using artificial light. A "typical shoplight ", if I understand you correctly, probably does not radiate the proper spectrum for plant growth. I'm not experienced in the area of artificial light sources, but perhaps you should check into this. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 20:43:42 -0500 Subject: Re: N, ventricosa or burkei? >could you please explain what the differences are? >...besides for color and size. Hi Dave and other interested CPers, Gladly. The pitchers are the main difference. They are more infundibulate (I don't have my Nepenthes lit. with me as I am at the office. I believe this latin term refers to a "funnel" shape) , that is, the pitcher is narrow at the base, becoming much broader at the peristome. Now, this is a young plant, so I know the difference between an upper and lower pitcher on ventricosa. It looks like neither. The lid is held over the pitcher like a lower pitcher on a ventricosa. The pitcher is bronzy colored in the lower half, becoming red tingued in the upper part. Peristome is red, ridged, strongly reflexed like ventricosa. I have yet to see an upper pitcher. I understand a plant of this same desciption is in the collection at Atlanta Botanical Gardens. It is tagged N. burkei. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida. ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 21:05:12 PST Subject: marker pens for labels >Hi, >Does anyone have a marker for labels that lasts. I tried permanent >ink and that fades, pen and pencil rub off... any advice appreciated. >Thanks! > Jon I bought a special marker pen from Charlie's Greenhouse Supply in Oregon that is meant for this. It works great and doesn't seem to fade. --Zachary-- ################### From: "Edward Read" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:59:50 -0800 Subject: Ping pictures my web page to see Hello everyone, I just wanted to let all the ping fans know that I put some pictures of my pings on my page. No, unfortunately I haven't put up the pictures from my last trip to Oaxaca, but they'll be up some day. Well, have fun and enjoy! Just click on the Taxonomy and Photos section of this c.p.page http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/9848/page3.html Take Care, Edward Read ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 04 Feb 1998 12:51:29 Z Subject: Re. Lowrie Vol.3 Dear Ivo, due to the continued delay in the publication of Vol.3 I long since stopped troubling Allen about it. Regarding species, I remember him telling me 2 maybe 3 years ago that the book would include 18 Utrics from Southern Australia together with the tuberous and pygmy Drosera published since vols.1 and 2. Regards Loyd ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 08:16:00 -0500 Subject: off topic Could I impose on someone in Great Britain to buy a few sheets of the Princess Diana stamps and mail them to me in a heavily protected envelope. I will pay in US stamps, US dollars, international reply coupons, or Sarr seed or whatever. David Atlanta USA ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 16:50:26 +0100 Subject: Re: Free CP seeds and BG Gent Hi everybody, especially Guy, Someone pointed me out that you have send a message to the CP list about the seeds I am offering to members op the CP Discussion Group. > That Guy van der Kinderen guy is quite incredible. As I saw on the list he almost suggests that you are a thief in the > night stealing CP's from the botanical garden in Gent!!! Ignoring him like you did is the best thing to do. > Now it's not that I was going to ignore such a message. It's just that it I've been so busy that I have not had the time to read a pile of digests. > purpurea purpurea origin : Botanical Garden Ghent > (mislabelled, is probably a hybrid between S. purpurea purpurea and S. >We're still wondering what the value may be to the people who may be >interested to have these seeds? Or is there another purpose? I always try to keep the origin of plants with the plant, so if after a while somebody says, hey, this N. maxima from nursery X is in fact a N. x idonowhat I can justify the labels on my plants. This plant differs considerably from my other S. purpurea purpurea's. So I found it important to point that out to the people. But the plant is (was) labelled that way by the BG of Ghent and that's where the parent plant comes from. The flowers were selfed and it generates the same kind of S. purpurea purpurea like plants, so I am in doubt, is it another variety or is it an hybrid. > It has been always the policy of BG Gent to leave the CP collection > to the concern of CP Society Drosera, namely its board. In the period > Mr. Leys took or got this plant from BG Gent, he was member of this > board. > This plant was given to me by the former chairman, Freddy De Coninck. > But it was clear at that time, that certain people where more > concerned about their own collection, than checking for instance the > BG collection for possible wrong labels, as they were supposed > to have some expertise in CP taxonomy. > Some other people and I have pointed this questionable naming out to Freddy, who was in charge of the collection. The fact that this label may never have changed is not due to the fact that it was not mentioned. About the fact that "certain people where more concerned about their own collection", I certainly hope you are not referring to me. As you were well aware that I was a student or in military service at that time and that I have spend many many Saturdays working in the CP collection of the BT garden. It was during one of those times that Freddy gave me this plant. It took me 2 hours (go and return) by train to get there, and I had to pay for the train tickets while you lived a couple of miles away,. Will you please be so kind to say if I belong to those "certain people" ? > It was also clear that > certain people tried to use the Society as an area of distribution > for their own trades, and BG Gent as a source for it. They still are > harvesting the seeds of it. Fortunately, times have changed. > I totally agree with what you are saying here. As I was the treasurer of the society I was well aware of who has spend money on what purposes. So I was also aware of large sums of money that were spend to house people in hotels. When so many time later those persons showed their gratitude towards all this generosity, by sending seeds or plants, they all went straight to one particular collection. When I pointed this out, I was told that as the letter/package was send to Mister xxx, and not to the society, he considered all those benefits his own. Another point. The year after I left the board, I have checked the overview of the finances of the society. About 85000 Belgian franks (+- 2400 $) was missing. I have said this to the present treasurer. He assured me that he would check this out and that he would contact me for further information. Can you tell me what the status of this investigation is ? I haven't heard of it since. So it seems to me that "Unfortunately, times have not changed." Guy, please. I left the society because of all the friction and the fights. Please, don't start this fighting again on this list. If you really want to continue this, do it using private e-mail. You could have done this in the first place. I won't be able to answer your mails until next Monday. Kind regards Wim ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 14:50:54 -0000 Subject: Re: Mr Lowries forthcoming publications - take 2 Hi Loyd, I am not familiar with Nuytsia or how to obtain it. Could you send the details to the listserver please if you think it would be of general interest. Thanks, NigelH ################### From: "Kamil Pasek" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:08:05 +0100 Subject: Gemmae available I have available this gemmae now: D. scorpioides (3 gemmae per portion) D. nitidula ssp. leucostigma D. nitidula ssp. alantostigma D. nitidula ssp. alantostigma x D. ericksoniae D. nitidula ssp. nitidula D. nitidula ssp. omissa D. roseana D. oreopodion I will send this species everyone free - only for postage and package - US$ 6 for each parcel. If you are interested in something write me please QUICKLY your concrete request and SNAIL ADDRESS. Best regards, Kamil _____________________________________________________ Kamil Pasek, L. Podeste 1871, 70800 Ostrava 8, Czech Republic e. mail : kamil.pasek@usa.net, adela.revue@post.cz _____________________________________________________ ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 13:39:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: N. lavicola seed Brian: Received the seed in yesterday's mail. Seed look great, can't wait to get the lil'suckers planted. Good growing Tom in Florida ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:02:36 -0000 Subject: Seeds of various species of Droseras in need of advice Hello to all of you on the list, I am in need of some advice in germinating seeds of various Droseras and the care needed after germination. This is because I am infact very new to C.Ps, only taken up for 1 month or so. I currently have seeds of the following species : d.rotundifolia, d.dichrosepala, d.carlifornian sunset, d.petiolaris, d.stolonifera,dionaea muscipula., d,burmannii, d.pulchella. I understand that most of you would probably not have all of them but saying that any help and advice for any of the above is much appreciated. I would also like to know the time to sow the above seeds though my guess is around spring for most of them, the medium and conditions etc... Also I would like to know which kinds are what type of droseras eg. pygmies, tuberous etc... All kinds of help is welcomed. Looking forward to hearing from you, Thanx in advance anyway, Nice growing all of you. Ernie. P.s - Thanx again for your seeds Leigh. ################### From: pfk6@juno.com (Peter F. Keller) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 10:20:35 -0500 Subject: Lowrie's Vol #3 As of January 21, 1998, Lowrie's Vol #3 was still at the type-setters. From there it has to go to the printer, so at this time it looks like the book will not be out for some time......................... ################### From: "Peter M." Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 00:42:25 +0100 Subject: Re: FREE CP SEEDS & GUY VAN DER KINDEREN Dear Readers, This is the first time I have taken pen to paper.. or more appropriatly fingers to keys. I wished I did not feel the need to post this entry, however upon reading a particularly misleading, incorrect and toally unnecessary entry, written in impeccable english by Guy Van der Kinderen, I felt I had to fire up my PC and post an entry of my own. Before going on I feel that this forum... is not the place to post this sort of entry.. ARE YOU READING GUY????!!! For this interested.. here we go... I was a member of DROSERA (the organisation Guy referred to in his posting here). I would like to convey my disappointment that after so many years Guy felt it necessarry to incorrectly present information that is neither constructive, useful or otherwise of benefit to those readers who would like to take advantage of Wim's generous offer. I have known Wim for many years, if he has a fault which is of any consequence to any of us, then it is that he is to generous. During his tenure as treasurer of Drosera, Wim discharged his obligations with great efficiency and correctness.. he never made misuse of his position.. period! I would like to point out that on Wim's joining Drosera, he was already in possession of one of the most impressive collections of self sown, grown and cared for plants that I have ever seen. During his association with Drosera, Wim, and others like him, had a single goal, to share knowledge, experiences.. and plants. Regrettably these efforts were not appreciated by some of the more protective (jealous??) members of Drosera. Exchange of plants was always the main goal of any meeting.. However not everyone (including myself) had material to exchange.. and so plants were frequently given away.. or 'horror or horrors' sold (forgive the use of a four letter word). This last activity was seen as flagrent commercialism.. a totally absurd accusation, given that those who levelled it were not in a position to provide any of us 'newbies' with any of those so sorely sought after items mentioned above. All the good guys have long since left Drosera. The club grows smaller every year ... I am sorry, I wish it had been otherwise, there is so much we could have learnt from each other. Thanks Wim.. keep up the good work. Guy.. you could take a lesson... in future limit yourself to something that matters... and if you have something of a personal nature you feel you must get off your spleen.. do it in private.... BTW my email address is P.MULLER@USA.NET Sorry for polluting this otherwise excellent forum Cheers Peter ################### From: MaxxKills@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 20:34:18 EST Subject: CP seed Does anyone have any Heliamphora and or Nepenthes seed that they could sell/give me? Thanks! Ma.\\' ################### From: Guy.VanDerKinderen@rug.ac.be Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:59:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Free CP seeds and BG Gent; sorry, one more Hi Wim and friends, > > That Guy van der Kinderen guy is quite incredible. As I saw on the > > list he almost suggests that you are a thief in the night stealing > > CP's from the botanical garden in Gent!!! Ignoring him like you did > > is the best thing to do. Well, clearly he did not. And, btw, it was not during the night. > This plant differs > considerably from my other S. purpurea purpurea's. So I found it > important to point that out to the people. But the plant is (was) > labelled that way by the BG of Ghent and that's where the parent plant > comes from. The flowers were selfed and it generates the same kind of > S. purpurea purpurea like plants, so I am in doubt, is it another > variety or is it an hybrid. Why do you point it out to the people on the list, and not to those who really need to know about this? Again, the BG Gent left the expertise to name and maintain its collection to people who she trusted to have the knowledge. > This plant was given to me by the former chairman, Freddy De Coninck. > Some other people and I have pointed this questionable naming out to > Freddy, who was in charge of the collection. The fact that this label > may never have changed is not due to the fact that it was not > mentioned. That's your story. > About the fact that "certain people where more concerned about their own > collection", I certainly hope you are not referring to me. This was a general remark concerning those who were supposed to keep the collection. And this indeed concerns more people than only Freddy. Unfortunately, some of them were especially seen when new plant materal was arrived at the BG, or they only came for the reward. > As you were > well aware that I was a student or in military service at that time and > that I have spend many many Saturdays working in the CP collection of > the BT garden. You did? > It was during one of those times that Freddy gave me this > plant. It took me 2 hours (go and return) by train to get there, and I > had to pay for the train tickets while you lived a couple of miles > away,. Sorry that I lived closer to the BG than you. We have on the other hand members living in the opposite part of Belgium (including students), never claiming about this, just because they like to give a helping hand. > I totally agree with what you are saying here. As I was the treasurer of > the society I was well aware of who has spend money on what purposes. So > I was also aware of large sums of money that were spend to house people > in hotels. When so many time later those persons showed their gratitude > towards all this generosity, by sending seeds or plants, they all went > straight to one particular collection. When I pointed this out, I was > told that as the letter/package was send to Mister xxx, and not to the > society, he considered all those benefits his own. Strange, we never heard these claims on general meetings of the Society. What I do know is that you were voted away as a treasurer. > Another point. The year after I left the board, I have checked the > overview of the finances of the society. About 85000 Belgian franks (+- > 2400 $) was missing. I have said this to the present treasurer. He > assured me that he would check this out and that he would contact me for > further information. Can you tell me what the status of this > investigation is ? I haven't heard of it since. So it seems to me that > "Unfortunately, times have not changed." Well, we did check your bookkeeping after you left, and did find very, very strange things. Not only 'large sums for hotels', but especially several books which were ordered but never found back in the library, large sums for telephone-bills, ... It looks strange to me that an ex-treasurer overviews the finances of a society a year after he has left the board. Why did'nt you do this during your bookkeeping job, or jus after you stopped? So, if we had to do an investigation (although I never heard about this), we surely do not have to tell people who left the board and the society. > Guy, please. I left the society because of all the friction and the > fights. Please, don't start this fighting again on this list. As I stated before, you were voted away by the members, and there may have been a reason for this. > If you really want to continue this, do it using private e-mail. You > could have done this in the first place. I will. Sorry folks! Nevertheless, from your seedlist, people (of the whole list) might conclude BG Gent is unable to make proper labelling. We were just wondering who's telling us, because we know better. Kind regards, That Guy Van der Kinderen guy ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 10:06:19 -0000 Subject: interesting behaviour of my VFT Hello everybody on the list, I am not sure whether very small seedlings are suppose to behave in this way but I find it quite interesting so thus I want to share my experience with you lot. Well, I have sowed the VFT seeds during early december and they have germinated about 1 month ago and still have its initial leaves on.There were 5 seedlings of which only one came through but guess its myself to blame for sowing them too early and not giving them what they needed etc.. Any way that sole survivor has produced 1 trap and is producing several other which are now visible"just" that oldest trap is the only one that is matured enough to open up or close. Some how or other i have observed its interesting behaviour, it didn't struck be of its unusualness till it did the third time. This was what happened : ( bear in mind that this plant is in a 2" pot with 1" water and its artificial light is my table lamp - halogen type, it sits on my desk.) everyday the trap was opened as it is new then one day it closed, I thus though it caught something as this took place at night and i am out most day time. I was wrong, it opened up the next morning with nothing in it. That night it did it again and so now every night its trap closes and each morning it opens up and has been doing for the past 5 days. I thus is wondering if any of you have seen such unusual behaviour, I also think that it might be related to too much light or self timed mechanism of the plant or some kind of photo sensitive thing with it. Any ideas people? Ernie p.s - read my previous message cause i really need help with those droseras. thanx ################### From: Kent Kratz Date: Wed, 04 Feb 1998 22:35:00 -0500 Subject: Markers I like the Pilot SCA-UF. It is a ultra fine point permanent pen. Comes in several colors and will last for a year in the sun and several in the shade. You can write on the epidermis of leaves and, as long as you do not break through, the ink will last as long as the leaf surface. I use it to label plant parts prior to sterilization in Chlorox and it comes through fine. If you really want something that will last, get the marking pens that they use to write numbers on ear tags for cattle. That ink lasts for years even when exposed to the sun. Not a particularly fine point. You may find that the surface of the plastic label will degrade and the ink will fade due to the loss of the underlieing plastic. Kent ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:15:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Free CP seeds and BG Gent; sorry, one more Re: the story of BG Ghent and Drosera. ok guys, enough of this. I lost interest after the 2nd email on this topic and no longer read them. Plus, I can no longer follow the point for point each of you so carefully make. It's falling on deaf ears so take this debate to just your personal computer screens. Leave this cp list member out of it. David ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 05 Feb 1998 13:49:21 Z Subject: Nuytsia Dear Nigel, >I am not familiar with Nuytsia or how to obtain it. Could >you send the details to the listserver please if you think >it would be of general interest. Ok when I get copies of the relevant article(s) I will provide a summary assuming no one else on the list beats me to it. Regards Loyd ################### From: "kamikaze" <011114@hillstrath.on.ca> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 08:53:29 -0400 Subject: ibeccela lutea I was wondering how to germinate ibicella seeds? adwait ################### From: Larry Mellichamp Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 13:14:48 -0600 Subject: Re: marking labels My experience over 20 years has been that NO ink pen marker will hold up on any label more than 2-3 years outdoors. BUT, plain old No. 2 pencil written on a vinyl label (not polystyrene) or metal (zinc-plated types) will last forever (or 20 years, I haven't gone beyond that). I have plastic labels 20 years old in the grenehouse that are just as good as yesterday. I have 20 year old zinc labels outside that have rusted away on the parts underground, but the pencil writing is still excellent on the above ground label part. Best wishes, Larry Larry Mellichamp Biology Dept. UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 phone (704) 547-4055 Fax (704) 547-3128 E-Mail FBI00TLM@email.UNCC.EDU ################### From: Susan Ziegler Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 20:02:12 -0600 Subject: arguement on seeds I don't know much about the Ghent stuff.. but arguing about where the seeds came from seems quite silly I think... They ARE seeds.. no matter where they came from.. They all were formed by the plant when it was pollinated... To me it seems a little like humans with their discriminations about race.. but thats me.. Perhaps if you wish to continue the argument, take it to private emails, thank you :) Susan Ziegler ################### From: "PHILL MANN" Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 20:54:19 -0800 Subject: New Home Page Hi to all those involved with the CP group, many of you who I already know. I have finally listed my homepage which is still a little rough around the edges but at least up and going. There are over 70 photographs included, and for the dedicated Nepenthes people a treat in the first time published photographs of rare and new species, such as N. argentii (cheek & Jebb) the smallest of all Nepenthes, N. klossii and N.paniculata the two elusive never seen before species from Irian Jaya along with N. insignis , N. lamii and a new species also from Irian Jaya. There is also the unidentified species from the Philippines which is supposedly N. philippinesis and the new described species N. sibuyanensis soon to be published. N. x trusmadiensis (N. macrophylla x lowii) from Borneo and many more of my selections. I hope you enjoy them. The address is http://webnews.altu.net.au/~philmann/ ################### From: "Judy Clark" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 11:51:02 -0500 Subject: Sarracenia Hybrids proper credit Hello list First of all I believe proper credit should be given to Larry Mellichamp of UNCC universty, and Rob Gardner of NCBG.atUNC university, It is for there efforts and years of hard work ,the world is a richer place because of them.In 1997 HISTORY was made when they came out with the first complex Sarracenia hybrids ever in tissue culture.Not simple F-1 hybrids but F-4 F-5 F-6 .That means crosses of crosses and back crosses and so on .For and example take this simple cross.S flava X S.purpurea venosa thats a F-1 cross that with S.leucophylla and you have a F-2 ,so now you see that it takes a long time ,patience and some measure of knowledge of these plants. Larrys plant was Dixie Lace , Robs plant was Ladies in Waiting and Fred Cases was Cases Resovle .These plants were hard to acclimate to soil conditions out of tissue culture,but me and others are giving it a shot .I'm sure that they will have more of them this spring ,and others to follow soon.These plants are a true wonder of the sarracenia kingdom,and with Larrys names like Tweedle Dee Boob Tube Black Ankle Sultry Maid Snorkle Catapult and so on.They can only get better from here ,so keep up the good work boys.and yes I can remember it like it was yesterday when the first multipul complexe sarracenia hybrids were made in T.C. David Crump @ Carolina Carnivorous Gardens 4174 Welling Ave, Charlotte, N.C. 28208 704 399-3045 ################### From: koudela@ure.cas.cz Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 07:58:06 +0000 Subject: a few gemmae available Dear List, I have a few spare gemmae of D.echinoblastus and D.scorpioides which I would like to offer to one or two guys either in exchange or for a small amount of money covering postage & packing. If anybody is interested, don't forget to answer privately, not to the listserv! On a different note, I would like to thank Lorraine Patsco and Stefan P.Wolf for their help with the CP book list. There are a few others who helped me as well but in general they have been only a few so far! Does this mean no one else has new information or nobody is willing to help me? BTW, as regards a recent war among (ex)DROSERA members, I do think it should be left to private message!!! I suspect we cannot find out he is true and who is wrong so why don't you omit the listserv address from the recipients? Regards, Ivo *************************************************** * Mgr. Ivo Koudela * * work address: home address: * * IREE AS Okruzni 25/21 * * Chaberska 57 Zdar nad Sazavou * * 182 51 Prague 8 591 01 * * Czech Republic Czech Republic * * tel: +422 6881804 * * fax: +422 6880222 * * e-mail: koudela@ure.cas.cz * *************************************************** ################### From: "Edward Read" Date: Thu, 5 Feb 1998 22:57:03 -0800 Subject: ibicella seed germination method Hi, about the ibicella seed germination question. I had very good germination by placing the seed on a damp paper towel, sprinkling GA3 on them, folding the paper towel over them and placing them in a plastic bag. I had germination in two weeks. As for the sprinkling of GA3, just get a little bit on the end of a flat tooth pick and sprinkle it right on top. I had questions about this method at first, but it works and is simple. I got all of my B. gigantea seed to germinate using this same method. Well, this is what has worked for me. Take care everyone and have fun! Edward Read ay080@lafn.org http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/9848/ Any chemistry jokes are welcome, my profesor needs them. ################### From: "D.Fraser" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 98 09:42:43 GMT Subject: CP's Hi everyone, I tuned out of CP digest for a while because of the rubbish that has been clogging the system. That is the personal attacks that are taking place through the digest. I grow CP and I want ot share some information about seedling, N. madagascarensis. Do not overwater and they do not like too high humidity. Sorry Cindy, they germinated well but they turned black and died under a plastic propagator cover. Meryl Fraser ################### From: Christophe Bauffe - Zoologie =?iso-8859-1?Q?g=E9n=E9rale_?= et Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 11:50:57 +0000 Subject: utricularia gibba hi list, sorry for the drosera strory's (hello wim (thank you for seeds), hello guy) , that's a bad serial films, a belgian story. Little country and big= trouble. My message is to ask for the conditions to keep utricularia gibba in good conditions. I have received some one to laurent ide (thank you laurent) and it is sick. I have put this in a aquarium with rain water, a lot of peat and most animalcules (daphnie, cyclops, etc..). Nothing to do. It is not in form. Please, help me, what must i make to keep my utricularia gibba.=20 Thanx, thanx, thanx, thanx Christophe ------------------------------------------------------ Christophe Bauffe Unit=E9 de Zoologie g=E9n=E9rale et appliqu=E9e Facult=E9 des Sciences agronomiques=20 Passage des D=E9port=E9s, 2 5030 Gembloux, Belgium T=E9l : 081/62.22.86. - Fax : 081/62.23.12. E-mail : bauffe.c@fsagx.ac.be ################### From: "Kitt" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 07:11:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia Hybrids proper credit > First of all I believe proper credit should be given to > Larry Mellichamp of UNCC. Thank you Larry! Can you please tell me what growing mixture you would recommend using for the lovely Sarrecenia 'Dixie Lace' I purchased through Niche last fall? Here in Zone 7b, I'd like to make certain this little sweetie flourishes. :) It'll be planted outside. Thanks ! @..@ kitt@kaboodle.com (\--/) Scenic Calhoun Georgia USA (.>__<.) ^^^ ^^^ Vuja De - The Feeling You've Never Been There ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:11:47 -0500 Subject: Re: CP's Hi CPers: Does anyone know where I can see a good photo of N. madagascarensis and/or description of it, ie: pitcher and plant dimensions, growth rate, etc? Thanks in advance. Kind Regards, Rand ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 08:34:00 -0500 Subject: Re: marking labels >From Larry Mellichamp, >Dave, I just looked at your web site. That's a spectauclar photo. The >plant is CLEARLY Leuco X flava. Notice the dark cut-throat flava throat. >This would be from western Florida? (Do you have a slide? Send me a copy >and I'll use it in my lecture of SE Sarracenias when I speak at the >International CP confernece in Bonn in May!) I don't have slides but can send you pitchers (gawd, I get confused so easily: pictures). The plant is still where I photographed it. The plant belongs to Bob Hanrahan here in Atlanta and is somewhere between 3 and 4 feet tall. I'm seeing something more so please tell me what you think. I think there's also some alata in there because of the pale yellow on the top side of the hood. I've seen fields of what I thought were alata where the hoods are pale yellow with lots of fenestrations and the underside of the hood is red. I have a couple like that in my bogs, too, that I bought as alatas but now am not sure if they are true alatas or some hybrid because Don Schnell doesn't describe alatas as having fenestrated hoods. Two things are fascinating with this hybrid: the hood and the fantastic pink rim on the pitcher. The underside of the hood is not fenestrated but rather a dark red, which reminds me of the alatas described in the previous paragraph. Also, I can see pink rims on my leuco's as they age but never to this degree and not quite so vibrant. It makes me wonder if one of the parents is a red tube form. Isn't there a red tubed leuco? I know there are red tubed flavas. My guess is that one of the parents is red tubed. I'm trying to remember whether or not red acts as dominant/recessive or whether it's (and I can't remember the scientific name for it) a multigene inheritance that allows varying shades. My guess is the later since we see such variation in red color in pitchers. When you've seen flava x leuco hybrids, do they ever look like this? For those who have the flava x leuco cross in your cp collection, do they look like the one in Craig's website? I find it difficult to believe that one cross could produce this or maybe I should say crossing a typcial flava with a typical leuco. What do you think of this proposal for duplicating this hybrid? red rugelii flava x leuco grow it for 5 years (red rugelii flava x leuco) x alata with pale yellow, fenestrated top hood and red underside hood (and having it with red tubes if alata's come that way.) grow it for 5 years you get www.jps.net/cgardner/DaveM-1.jpg. The order of the cross will certainly affect the outcome, too. Hybrids don't usually excite me so much since I like exploring the natural variation that occurs in species. But this one, sorry to go on like this, but this one takes my breath away. David P.S. Larry, thanks for the source of vinyl labels. ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 21:02:34 -0000 XSubject: Re: marking labels Hi everyone, I just want to simply ask , - What colour are the roots of a healthy VFT seedling? just curious cause mine comes to be jet black but is still growing. I gave it a little fungicide just in case its root rot. the plant is only a month old- still got its initial leaves on but the whole plant is green in colour. ################### From: "Adao Pereira." Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 00:20:57 +0100 Subject: Strange Pinguicula Hi! Some of my Pinguiculas (P. oaxaca) are having a strange behaviour: they are growing without touching the ground! They have no roots at all! This happened when winter began. Till then, they were normal with big leaves, but as winter arrived, small leaves started to appear and they released themselves from the soil! Now they have no roots and the strangest thing is that they are growing! They're just ON the ground! What's the matter? Is this normal? Ad\343o Pereira ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 23:43:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: strange pygmy Drosera My pot of what I thought were D.pygmaea is now blooming and when I noticed that one of the flowers was open this morning when I got up, I took a close look since they've usually bloomed and closed up while I'm at work or otherwise not home. I noticed a few unusual things about the flower: it had five petals, it had a deep maroon-red center, it had four deeply red-maroon sickle-shaped stigmas. In fact, the flower looks very much like the photo of the "rare red-centered white flower" form of D.pulchella from Lowrie's Vol.2 except with only four stigmas and they were as deep red as the center of the flower. My experience with pygmy Drosera at this point is almost entirely based on what I've read of that book, I'm not an expert by any means. I'm almost sure it must have some D.pygmaea in it because the inflorescences are relatively short and single-flowered in every single case. (There are at least 20 plants in this one small pot and they're all flowering right now) Is this some hybrid that's not in Lowrie's book but is relatively common (I bought it at a plant sale - it's not likely to be an extremely rare one-of-a-kind anything) or does D.pygmaea occasionally have D.pulchella-like flowers? I took a few pictures of it and as soon as I get that film developed, I'll scan them in if there is any interest or curiosity. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Alessandro Delfrate" Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:56:42 +0100 Subject: Mexican Pinguicola propagation - CP in Lisbona? Hi list I had really good results in the last 3 weeks with P gypsicola and P paucha propagation. Using winter leafs, placed in living sphagnum, artificial lights (4 x 18 W neon tubes, 12 hours photoperiod), temp about 20 \260C and very high humidity I had 5 gypsycola from starting from 7 leafs and 4 P paucha starting from 2 leafs. 1998 seems to be a nice year for my CP :-) I will be in Lisbona nex weeks for holidays: any CP to see there ? PS: I have fresh (1997) Drosophillum seeds for trade. Best regards Alessandro Delfrate (alex.gizmo@iol.it) ################### From: KILSMOOTH@aol.com Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 05:57:04 EST Subject: Aquatic Utric cultivation.. Hello to all, Brian from El Ninio stricken Fl. here.....I've noticed on the last few lists that there has been a few questions on aquatic Utrics,so here it goes! I've been cultivating these little beasts of the aquatic micro-world for several yrs.with no problems using this method; I grow mine in 5 gal.white plastic buckets,in partial sun{40%shade}..The white buckets keep the water a little cooler in summer by reflecting sun's rays,thus retarding algae growth..I prepare my water by adding a handful of pine needles to rainwater,and letting it set for a week or so...when it is a light "straw" color,i add the Utrics..I change the water once in a while when algae growth finds its way to the plants.I'ts nice to keep some prepared on standby,especially in Summer..As far as feeding goes,mine get it once monthly from a feeding mix as follows;fill a bucket with clean lakewater{if that still exists nowadays!},and add a few handfuls of hay or grass.Let it sit in bright light for a week or so and presto!,a Utric smorgasbord!!I add a cupful of this water once monthly.....Proper feeding produces killer flowers,especially with sp. like U.radiata and U.inflata..Plus,if grown in a clear tank,can be viewed feeding up close with a magnifying glass,a virtual "Little Tank of Horrors" for your viewing pleasure!!Good Luck,and i hope this aids someone:) Most importantly, Enjoy C.P.!! Brian Barnes :) ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:58:23 -0500 Subject: Re: marking labels I agree with Mellichamp 100%, that pencil tends to do the best job when labeling a plant. If you are looking for a short time label marker, almost anything will do, but pencil last the longest. I use a 7mm mechanical pencil with "HB" or "B" lead. This lead is soft and tends to show darker then other pencil leads. I had problems trying to add so much plant information to each label that I started coding each label and pot with a special code. I use this code in a journal to describe each plant, it's location, when planted, etc. For me, this method works the best (now, where did I leave that there journal at). Yes, This info is also going into the computer as well. The reason I add the same code to the pot as I do the label is because I recently moved to another house and during my move, I lost some real important labels off of a bunch of two year old seedling. All pots were the same and all plants were of the same specie. I still have the seedlings, but the plant information is gone. I knew then this would never happen again to me. I hope this helps a few folks. Charles Brewer ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- BUT, plain old No. 2 pencil written on a vinyl label (not polystyrene) or metal (zinc-plated types) will last forever (or 20 years, I ################### From: Borneo Exotics Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 02:38:47 +0500 Subject: Nepenthes Website Updated Hi Guys, We've just updated our Nepenthes website at http://www.borneoexotics.com/ with new photographs including N. distillatoria and N. argentii. Phill Mann beat us to it with N. argentii on his new website, but if you look at the first picture of N. argentii on our site you'll probably see why we've nicknamed this species 'The Bat Plant'. Any comments about the site (good or bad!) are always welcome. Robert Cantley Borneo Exotics ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com (Michael A Sankovich) Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:43:50 -0500 Subject: RE U.gibba >Topic No. 7 Dear Christophe, The U.Gibba that I have grows well during the normal temparate growing season. When Winter arrives I just let it outside in standing water and it appears to die. But when spring arrives it starts to grow and by late summer I have flowers again. It grows in a sand peat mixture in a 4in. pot and thrives on neglect. It freezes and thaws off and on all winter long. But nothing even resembles a living plant until the springtime. Good Luck. >Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 11:50:57 +0000 >From: Christophe Bauffe - Zoologie =?iso-8859-1?Q?g=E9n=E9rale_?= et >To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com >Subject: utricularia gibba >Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980206115057.008eaee4@sigmail> > >hi list, > >sorry for the drosera strory's (hello wim (thank you for seeds), hello >guy) >, that's a bad serial films, a belgian story. Little country and big= > trouble. > >My message is to ask for the conditions to keep utricularia gibba in >good >conditions. I have received some one to laurent ide (thank you >laurent) and >it is sick. I have put this in a aquarium with rain water, a lot of >peat and >most animalcules (daphnie, cyclops, etc..). Nothing to do. It is not >in >form. Please, help me, what must i make to keep my utricularia >gibba.=20 > >Thanx, thanx, thanx, thanx > >Christophe >------------------------------------------------------ >Christophe Bauffe >Unit=E9 de Zoologie g=E9n=E9rale et appliqu=E9e >Facult=E9 des Sciences agronomiques=20 >Passage des D=E9port=E9s, 2 >5030 Gembloux, Belgium >T=E9l : 081/62.22.86. - Fax : 081/62.23.12. >E-mail : bauffe.c@fsagx.ac.be > ################### From: JAnge22821@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 14:08:09 EST Subject: Re: leaves on VFT Does anyone have suggestions as to why a Venus Fly-Trap plant would start to have very wide leaves with very small traps? Some of the traps are only an eigth of an inch long and appear to be malformed. JAnge22821 ################### From: "Sara A. Gardner" Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 15:16:20 -0800 Subject: Book Hi all; hate to take up space with this, but the list doesn't seem very busy right now. What was the name and the title of the book that was mentioned a few weeks ago that was published in Malaysia? Our DS is living in Kuala Lumpur until the end of April and, while I have been totally unsuccessful in getting him to ship me nepenthes or orchids, he says he WILL go to a bookstore. Thanks, Sara mailto:gardner@magick.net ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:20:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: "levitating" Pinguicula To whomever it was that posted a day or two about their Pings "floating" above the soil: my P.esseriana have been doing this, also. I have a few other Pings that have been doing just fine, but my P.esseriana are up on "stilts" of their roots, shoving the plant a 1/2cm or so above the soil. I've assumed this was from the soil being too wet, but over the last couple of months, they've been drying out and still doing the same thing... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 19:25:36 -0000 Subject: Re: Re: leaves on VFT >Does anyone have suggestions as to why a Venus Fly-Trap plant would start to >have very wide leaves with very small traps? Some of the traps are only an >eigth of an inch long and appear to be malformed. >JAnge22821 > What media did you plant the VFTs in? My studies/experiments on Dionea show abnormal leaf characteristics when VFTs are fertilized; this is consistent with the small traps that you describe. The wide leaves may also be a result of fertilization. I have had Dionea with wide, jagged leaves, but these were fertilized the same as others that did not have the abnormal leaves, and now the wide, jagged-leaf VFTs have produced normal leaves for awhile now. If the media you used has decaying matter, fertilizer, or anything that would provide a significant amount of nutrients to the plant, it could be causing the leaf abnormalities. Related to this is PH, since acidity can affect the amount of certain nutrients that the plant is able to uptake. More on this topic is planned to be available in the near future, as I am working with experiments in this subject and plan on publishing my findings. Matt TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 02:06:08 GMT Subject: Cultivating Sphagnum? (I Just CANT do it!) List, I wanted to make public a dilemma I'm having with the cultivation of sphagnum moss... It seems everything I've done or doing is not at all working... I've tried 3 attempts at trying to grow live moss to add to my terrarium for my CP's but every time all I get is dead sphagnum after a few weeks... On my first attempt I just placed some fresh green sphagnum in my terrarium and basically pushed it into the existing dead sphagnum... All requirements were met and after about 2 weeks I had moss that was almost black with some red coloration in the centers...=20 My second attempt was to isolate the moss in a smaller 5 1/2 gallon terrarium with just a little distilled water thinking that it may grow in 100% water... This just ended up in a black muck and as your know already, no live sphagnum... The third attempt (which I'm still crossing fingers) is to cultivate some live strands in a 8" pot of plain peat, kept moist and in the terrarium... Humidity is nearly 100% at all times and temps range from 85 degrees (daytime) to 75 degrees (nighttime)... This has proved better than the original two methods because after 2 weeks the moss is still green but shows no evidence of rooting or expanding...=20 What in the world could I be doing wrong?...I've had great success with the terrarium and the D. muscipula's I have growing there now... I'm at wits end on this subject and again look to the wisdom and knowledge of the masses to help end my pain and suffering ;) Please inform me of the wrongful practices or what I could do to help spur growth in my moss! Thanks up front, since it seems I get such a great response and have trouble replying to everyone who responds! =3D) ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: AL850R Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 18:23:25 -0800 Subject: SEEDS > Hi peepz, > > I just received free packets of seed. These are: > > -Sarracenia alata > -Sarracenia leucophylla > -Sarracenia psttacina > -Sarracenia alata x leucophylla > -Sarracenia flava > -Sarracenia minor > -Drosera neocaledonia > -Nepenthes viellardii > > All these seeds are wild collected and less than a year old. Do these seeds need to be planted right away, or they can be stored for years to come? I know that the Nepenthes and Drosera don't need a stratification period and can be planted right away. How do you stratify Sarracaneia seeds and care for them? Since I don't have a fungal spray, can ROOTONE,the rooting hormone powder with Fungicide be used instead? > > Thanks a lot! > > -Andrew- By the way, if I succeed, I will give away free seedlings once they have been established! ################### From: Susan Ziegler Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 20:43:30 -0600 Subject: RE: making labels I came up with a resourceful way to label carniverous plants.. Since they require distilled water, you have all these empty plastic containers laying around.... I figured, why not cut up the containers into strips and use them to label and separate carniverous plants.. so I cut them up and wrote the labels with permanent ink markers.. I think it works very well.. Susan Ziegler ################### From: "Judy Clark" Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 10:52:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Sarracenia Hybrids proper credit -----Original Message----- To: Multiple recipients of list >Hello list >First of all I believe proper credit should be given to Larry Mellichamp of >UNCC >universty, and Rob Gardner of NCBG.atUNC university, >It is for there efforts and years of hard work ,the world is a richer place >because of them.In 1997 HISTORY was made when they came out with the first >complex Sarracenia hybrids ever in tissue culture.Not simple F-1 hybrids but >F-4 F-5 >F-6 .That means crosses of crosses and back crosses and so on .For and >example take this simple cross.S flava X S.purpurea venosa thats a F-1 >cross that with S.leucophylla and you have a F-2 ,so now you see that it >takes a long time ,patience and some measure of knowledge of these plants. >Larrys plant was Dixie Lace , Robs plant was Ladies in Waiting and Fred >Cases was Cases Resovle .These plants were hard to acclimate to soil >conditions out of tissue culture,but me and others are giving it a shot .I'm >sure that they will have more of them this spring ,and others to follow >soon.These plants are a true wonder of the sarracenia kingdom,and with >Larrys names like Tweedle Dee Boob Tube Black Ankle Sultry Maid >Snorkle Catapult and so on.They can only get better from here ,so keep up >the good work boys.and yes I can remember it like it was yesterday when the >first multipul complexe sarracenia hybrids were made in T.C. > >David Crump @ Carolina Carnivorous Gardens >4174 Welling Ave, >Charlotte, N.C. 28208 >704 399-3045 > > > > ################### From: "Paul V. McCullough" Date: Sun, 08 Feb 1998 23:06:17 -0500 Subject: Re: leaves on VFT > Does anyone have suggestions as to why a Venus Fly-Trap plant would start to > have very wide leaves with very small traps? Some of the traps are only an > eigth of an inch long and appear to be malformed. > JAnge22821 My first guess is insufficient light. This symptom is almost always due to a lack of proper lighting. My second guess is that your plants are in non-acidic soil or have been fertilized with some sort of plant food. VFTs require acidic soil- acid sand and sphagnum peat moss is best. Do not feed with ANY fertilizer no matter what you may read elsewhere. Also, never, never, never, water VFTs with anything other then rain water or distilled water. (Rain water is always best.) If you do think your VFTs are suffering from a lack of proper lighting, move your plant to a sunnier location (if possible). Keep in mind that while VFTs like a lot of light, they hate to be baked (as often happens in terraria in direct sunlight.) Hope that helps! Cheers, Paul -- Paul V. McCullough "3D Animation World" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull "CP Page" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull/pics/cp/carniv.htm ################### From: Michael Gray Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 14:17:06 +1000 Subject: Perlite v Polystyrene I'm looking at using either perlite or polystyrene balls in my nepenthes mix, and I was wondering if there are any differences between them from the plant growth point of view. Is one to be prefered over the other, and if so, why etc etc ????? mikeg ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Michael Gray Software Engineer mikeg@dstc.edu.au Distributed Systems Technology Centre http://www.dstc.edu.au ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 08:57:46 Subject: Re: strange pygmy Drosera Dear Derek, > it had five petals, it had a deep maroon-red center, it had four deeply > red-maroon sickle-shaped stigmas. The petals ought to be four and pure white. The styles must be club- shaped in _D. pygmaea_. > In fact, the flower looks very much > like the photo of the "rare red-centered white flower" form of D.pulchella > from Lowrie's Vol.2 except with only four stigmas and they were as deep > red as the center of the flower. So it is quite possible that you have just this plus a wrong lable. > I'm almost sure it must have some D.pygmaea in it > because the inflorescences are relatively short and single-flowered in > every single case. (There are at least 20 plants in this one small pot > and they're all flowering right now) Too weak evidence IMHO. > Is this some hybrid that's not in > Lowrie's book but is relatively common (I bought it at a plant sale - > it's not likely to be an extremely rare one-of-a-kind anything) It is not very probable that there are any (natural) hybrids of _D. pygmaea_, because the species does not occur together with any other Bryastrum. There are rumours that _D. pygmaea_ was found also in W Australia, but I have not seen any good evidence so far, so I would rather expect that these plants were just unusual forms of _D. occidentalis_. > or does D.pygmaea occasionally have D.pulchella-like flowers? No. And it has not been recorded to have five petals (not even occasionally) yet. > I took a few pictures of it and as soon as I get that film developed, I'll > scan them in if there is any interest or curiosity. Please do so. TNX. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 04:31:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Perlite v Polystyrene Michael Gray wrote: > I'm looking at using either perlite or polystyrene balls in my > nepenthes mix, and I was wondering if there are any differences between > them from the plant growth point of view. Polystyrene, also known as styrofoam, can be used if it is not colored. Colored styrofoam is phytotoxic. You might consider using perlite. It's safer. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 09 Feb 1998 13:19:42 Z Subject: Chinosol Hello list, does anyone know of a supplier of Chinosol preferably in the UK or else where in Europe? I got some many years ago from Sarracenia Nurseries in London when that nursery was still operational but have never seen the material offered for sale since. Regards Loyd ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:01:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Cultivating Sphagnum? (I Just CANT do it!) Sphagnum moss can be a little difficulty to grow sometimes if you don't meet all it's needs, but with a little care it can outgrow almost anything container. I grow and sell this stuff all the time. I will try and give you a little advice to get you going in the right direction. Sphagnum moss likes a cooler condition, semi sunny condition. I grow mine outside all year long even in winter. Freezing weather doesn't seem to brother the moss that much as long as you protected it from dryness. The beat method on how to grow moss is a wet but well drained soil. I use a peat/sand mix and large high sided containers. I add about 3 inches of peat/sand, them the moss and place the container either under the greenhouse tables or outside in a semi shaded area. I water daily and it grows. I try to avoid keeping the moss water logged. If you grow sphagnum in an aquarium be careful as to much light will cause the tips to turn brown. If you have to much water in the aquarium, the moss will sour and die. Moss needs lots of water but to much water will kill it, especially if it is standing warm water. Again, well drained soil, cool temps, high humidity, semi shade, daily misting. Hope this helps. If you need more info, email me privately. Charles ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:26:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Cultivating Sphagnum? (I Just CANT do it!) ....dilemma I'm having with the cultivation of sphagnum moss... It seems everything I've done or doing is not at all working... Hi Richard, I'm not sure what's going wrong so I'll tell you what I do and you can decide if you need to alter something. I put a layer of charcoal on the bottom of the aquarium, maybe 1/2 inch or so. To this I add a thick layer (2 to 5 inches) of the following mix: dead, long fibered sphagnum, perlite, charcoal. I'm not scientific about the amounts of each. Just like the idea of perlite making it airier and charcoal keeping it sweeter. On top of this layer, I add live sphagnum. To this I add rainwater so that I see an inch or so of water on the bottom. I started out using a relatively large fan that I would turn on for an hour several times a week. That become cumbersome so I've recently added an air bubbler, the kind used in aquariums for fish and a small computer fan that runs constantly. I've placed the air bubbler beneath the water line. If you decide to add a computer fan, be sure to talk to an electrician or someone knowledgeable. I had to buy an (what I think is called) amp converter and hook that up to the fan before I could plug it into a 120 V socket. I'm not at all literate in this stuff so someone please correct this or fill in the blanks. Again, though, the sphagnum grew well before I added the bubbler and the computer fan. It just made me feel better that the atmosphere was not getting stale. I have 1 40W shop light above the aquarium and sealed the top with Saran wrap. Someday I'll add a glass top. Sphagnum likes light so the more light you give it (use fluorescent lights at the minimum) and the closer the sphagnum is to the light the better. I also grow sphagnum outside in those 2 inch plastic saucers that you put under plants. It does grows well. It does best in an outdoor bog sitting on top of a sand/sphagnum mix. David P.S. Like the Olympic commercial that's airing now: you've got wings for growing sphagnum, you just haven't found them yet. ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 18:12:47 +0100 Subject: Cephalotus behaviour Hi all Sand/peat mixture for U. gibba ? I'd like to understand. I've got a D. scorpioides growing from a gemma, producing two 'trunks'. Frequent behaviour ? Today I've cut the finally-dead pitcher of my Ceph. I was surprised to see, although dead Nep pitchers are dry, this one was almost full of digestive liquid. I wonder why the plant doesn't absorb this liquid before the pitcher ends. Laurent ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:20:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP Verification To Jan Some Drosera seeds came from the seed bank with the name PLANEHORN written on it. The plants grew up to be larger than the South African sundew. Also a German Drosera UUGANOUS (?spelling like the tennis pro. with two U's) looks like the Capensis but Winter in middle Florida doesn't set it back. Jan I just want to know if these are resgister names. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: Dionaea color types Greetings folks, Does anyone have excellent quality photos (slides or prints) of Venus Fly Trap color types (all red, all green, yellow, red jaws, etc). If I got enough photos, I would consider a nice all-color pictorial for Carnivorous Plant Newsletter. If you have any photos, please email me directly, and not to this site. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 21:26:13 Subject: Re: CP Verification Dear Randy, > Some Drosera seeds came from the seed bank with the name PLANEHORN written > on it. The plants grew up to be larger than the South African sundew. Larger than which S Af species? > Also a German Drosera UUGANOUS (?spelling like the tennis pro. with two > U's) looks like the Capensis but Winter in middle Florida doesn't set it > back. Does it have a winter bud (hibernaculum)? > Jan I just want to know if these are resgister names. Both names do not tell me much. The ICPS has not received either name for registration yet. The names that are acceptable for _Drosera_ are ' California Sunset ' (the only established epithet so far), Caprice, Marston Dragon, Nagamoto, and Watari. "Plains Form", mentioned by Slack, is only acceptable with reservation because the ICNCP (Art.17.15) precludes the usage of expressions like "form" or "variety" in cultivar epithets. Perhaps your "PLANEHORN" is this "Plains Form" of _D. aliciae_ with some orthographical permutations. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Sun, 8 Feb 1998 20:46:33 +0000 Subject: Looking for Martin Cheek Sorry to post this here. Does anyone have Martin Cheek's email address? If so please reply to me privately. Regards, -- Phil Wilson ################### From: Clarke Brunt Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 22:26:49 +0000 Subject: Re: UK Darlingtonia Pest/E-mail Problems (off-topic)/Lovely Wind On 15 Jan 98 at 10:19, Nigel Hurneyman wrote: > After the recent storms subsided, I decided it was time to harvest this > year's crop of Darlingtonia seed. To my disgust, I found that every > flower had been 'glued' into a ball, the innards eaten away, and the > shed skin of a winged beastie was on the outside where the culprit had > emerged and flown away. Is there such a thing as a Darlingtonia > sawfly? Does this happen in the wild, or is it purely a European pest > taking advantage of a new opportunity? I've not been keeping up with the CP list, hence followup to a message of weeks ago. I get lots of these insects whose caterpillars glue leaves (or anything else) together to make a pocket which they then proceed to eat the inside of. I think the culprit is known as 'Tortrix moth'. I've found them very non-specific about what they eat. I get Sarracenia leaves stuck together, Darlingtonia, I've had two cactus plants attacked. They are not too much trouble to deal with if you notice them in time. The caterpillars, initially tiny but growing to about 1cm, wriggle very quickly away if disturbed, and can drop suspended by a thread (I assume they climb back up the plant later). I don't actually know what the adult moth looks like, though I suspect that one of two of them have perished on my butterworts. Like the dreaded vine-weevil, this seems to be a pest which is on the increase. -- Clarke Brunt (clarke@brunt.demon.co.uk) http://www.brunt.demon.co.uk/ Cacti in Mexico, Cacti in flower, Seeds from Cambridge University Botanic Garden ################### From: MOveson@faegre.com Date: 9 Feb 98 17:41:06 CST Subject: Intro; Nepenthes Food Hello CP List People, I subscribed to the list a couple of weeks ago and have been enjoying the messages--at least, the few messages that are basic enough for me to understand. I have been growing orchids for a couple of years and have started growing some CPs as companion plants. I have some species of Pinguicula (a fast-growing, warm-tolerant species with great 3/4" purple flowers), a baby Drosera (again, I don't know the species), a little VFT, and (by far my favorite) a 3-foot-tall Nepenthes, which I believe is N. Ventrata. I grow everything under flourescent lights--the Pings under standard 4-foot 40-watt lights, the others under VHO flourescents (4 bulbs, 160 watts each). My Nepenthes had some pitchers on it when I received the plant, but alas, all of them were brown and dead, perhaps because they got too cold in shipment. But the thing has grown like a weed, putting out approximately one new leaf per month. After cultivating this plant for about 4 months, I finally have my first mature, open pitcher, about 5 inches tall, ready to be fed. Question: What does this plant eat? Is it picky? I have a bit of a gnat population in my growing area, but the Pings have eaten most of those. Bugs are relatively scarce in Colorado this time of year, though worms are available. Will it eat worms? Or should I go to the pet store and buy it crickets or some other fare? Is there a good rule of thumb, i.e., "if it fits in the pitcher, put it in," or should I start with very small bugs? Also, I have a small population of ladybugs in my growing area. Are they doomed? Finally, could someone please explain to me this business about "lower pitchers" and "upper pitchers"? What purpose do the different pitchers serve? Do they differ on N. Ventrata? How do I know which I have? As I said, the mature pitcher is about 5 inches tall, perhaps 1.5 inches around near the bottom, narrowing at the neck to about 1 inch and then widening at the mouth to about 1.25 inches. It is green, faintly tinged with red. Mark Oveson Faegre & Benson LLP; Denver, Colorado Phone: (303) 820-0681; Fax: (303) 820-0600 moveson@faegre.com ################### From: NPLUMMER@hg-basic1mail.hg.med.umich.edu Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 19:53:34 -0500 Subject: re:perlite vs polystyrene Michael Gray asked about perlite vs. polystyrene. Perlite is porous, so it will wick up some water by capillary action. I guess that could be good or bad depending on your watering habits. Perry Malouf has pointed out potential problems with colored polystyrene. I just wanted to note that in some cases perlite may also be phytotoxic. On the Orchids List Digest, one well-known slipper orchid grower reported that his Phragmipedium besseae seedlings suffered unexplained necrosis at the leaf axils. The perlite in his mix was tested and proved to be high in fluoride (!) which was apparently leaching out. When the perlite was removed from the mix, the necrosis vanished. This particular orchid grower is renowned for the quality of his plants and his culture. I haven't had any problems with perlite in orchid and Nepenthes pots, but I wanted to pass along this potential caveat. Perhaps different batches have slightly different mineral content? Nick ---------------------- Nicholas Plummer nplummer@umich.edu http://www-personal.umich.edu/~nplummer/ ################### From: Mike Date: Mon, 09 Feb 1998 19:03:24 +0000 Subject: mini D. capensis? Is there such a thing as a miniature D. capensis? I ask because I have a plant (which came from a pot from Cal. Carnivores labeled as 'D. unidentified') that looks and acts EXACTLY like D. capensis, except for the fact that its leaf blade and petiole have a combined length of only 1"! I know it is not just young, because I have been growing it for several months now; during this time it has thrived, and grown just as FAST as my other sundews, just not increased in size. I don't know how to describe it's appearance other than to say it looks just like a regular D. cap: right down to the scaly stem it has formed. I have not seen it flower yet (which would obviously answer the question), so any other help would be greatly appreciated. BTW, the pot of D. unidentified contained two Drosera species (the other was an unspectacular rossetted plant), so I'm not sure which the 'unidentified' was refering to. Thanks- -Jonathan Mitchell ################### From: aquilla2@juno.com (Michael A Sankovich) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 20:33:53 -0500 Subject: Re:ICPN CDROM? Dear list members, About a year ago, There was a request (on this forum) out for help in copying all volumes and issues of the ICPN to be made into a CD ROM. Does anyone know of the status of this project. Complete In progress or abandoned? Just wondering. Michael A Sankovich "Ashes to ashes, Dust to dust, If the misery don't get you, The raspberry julep spring tonic, (with the persimmon sap,) Must!" ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 09 Feb 98 21:55 EST Subject: Re: Re: leaves on VFT > From: JAnge22821@AOL.COM > > Does anyone have suggestions as to why a Venus Fly-Trap plant would start to > have very wide leaves with very small traps? Some of the traps are only an > eigth of an inch long and appear to be malformed. Could also be too little light. Dave Evans ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:29:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Re:ICPN CDROM? Hello, Carl here. As far as the CPCDROM project goes, I've been working on over the last while in isolation. There were a number of folks who were scanning text, however, submissions of scanned volumes dwindled off, and have been non existant for almost a year now. Unfortunately, lifes commitments get in the way of projects like this, so its been going at a snails pace. At present, I'm in the process of scanning photos, and have complete about 2 volumes or so. My aim is to have from 1990 to present completed in the before fall. As it turns out, it is actually easier for me to scan the pictures myself. That way I can ensure consistancy in size, color and resolution. However, if there are folks still interested in scanning text, I'd love the help. Email me privately to see what is still required. One of the ongoing nitemares of this project is the fact that the text needs to be proof read, mildly formatted and cleaned up. Doing that takes alot of time and effort. I know all of the text that I've scanned is right off the OCR. It hasn't been proofread or anything, so..... If anyone is will to take the time to take on such a project, especially for years 1990 on, that would be great too. As far as coding the HTML, I'll probably take care of that as well. Once a template is agreed on, all volumes will just be modifications of the original. So that should be a piece of cake. Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome >Dear list members, >About a year ago, There was a request (on this forum) out for help in >copying all volumes and issues of the ICPN to be made into a CD ROM. >Does anyone know of the status of this project. Complete In progress or >abandoned? >Just wondering. >Michael A Sankovich >"Ashes to ashes, Dust to dust, If the misery don't get you, > The raspberry julep spring tonic, (with the persimmon sap,) Must!" > > > ################### From: "TheEdge" Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:49:44 -0000 Subject: Re: Perlite v Polystyrene >I'm looking at using either perlite or polystyrene balls in my >nepenthes mix, and I was wondering if there are any differences between >them from the plant growth point of view. Is one to be prefered over the >other, and if so, why etc etc ????? > > > mikeg > Dear Mikeg, I would recommend using perlite. Here is why: -Polystyrene, if what you speak of is what I am thinking of, does not absorb water. Moreover, it will float, and be a messy, ineffective soil-additive. Perlite will not float and can absorb water. I am considering using a form of perlite which is available that comes in larger pieces I think around .5"-1" each piece. -Polystyrene can have a tendency to often be toxic. From a posting I read on the list a few weeks ago (I apologize to the author for not recalling their name) somebody had colored polystyrene figure-eights (I believe coloring may not be the only source of toxicity, by the way) in the bottom of a pot for drainage, and the Nepenthes' roots grew through them and subsequently the plant grew less and less healthy. Obviously small polystyrene balls are a smaller target for roots, but nevertheless toxicity from this risk in addition to any other nasties shed by the polystyrene make it inferior to perlite. -Don't encourage those polluting polystyrene companies by investing in their products in this case when there are much better alternatives! I hope I was of some help. Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net ################### From: lasseter@chemvx.chem.tamu.edu (Benjamin Lasseter) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:58:00 -0600 Subject: Water... Ladies and Gentlemen, Just as a matter of curiosity, if you are going to repot them regularly, why should it really matter whether or not you use tap water or distilled water or rain water for your plants? Admittedly, if you have a high saline concentration in your local tap water, obviously insoluble salts will build up very fast. But for your normal city water, does the build-up of salts become a serious problem in between the time you repot your plants? Is there something even more insidious than sodium fluoride or sodium chloride in tap water? I am not asking this from disagreement to any advice that has been given, nor would I recommend using tap water. Distilled water (or rain water for those who live in damp places) works really well, and I myself do not intend to change. But I am somewhat curious, and any thoughts on the matter would be appreciated. Sincerely, Benjamin F. Lasseter ################### From: "Marco Lichtenberger" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:36:48 MET-1MEST Subject: Pings and VFTs Hi. >To whomever it was that posted a day or two about their Pings >"floating" >above the soil: my P.esseriana have been doing this, also. I have a >few >other Pings that have been doing just fine, but my P.esseriana are up >on >"stilts" of their roots, shoving the plant a 1/2cm or so above the >soil. Happend some years ago to some of my pings too. But they are all quiet doing fine. Maybe it is "normal" and a way for the plants to get around through wind and water. >Does anyone have suggestions as to why a Venus Fly-Trap plant would >start to >have very wide leaves with very small traps? Some of the traps are only an >eigth of an inch long and appear to be malformed. I had the same results with some plants i tried to cultivate without any domancy, which means relatively high temperatures and low light (maybe 8 hours a day). I've only used rainwater and i haven't changed the soil, so i don't think fertilizer was the problem in my case. The mentioned plants startet to grow normal in the next spring. Marco. ################### From: KILSMOOTH@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:19:49 EST Subject: Venus flytrap dormancy and lighting.... Hello cp enthusiasts,Bri here....I've noticed alot of questions on Dionaea,so here's my input on the matter.Firstly,As you all know,flytraps form a Winter rosette prior to dormancy. It becomes much smaller,almost circular,and low to the ground. Plus,after repeated observing of these plants in their natural habitat,most surrrounding vegetation,weeds and grasses die back to expose these little guys to alot of Winter sun....and usually drier conditions{except for when good ol "El Ninio" shows its face!}..My answer to the questions of malformed traps??Give a little more direct sun,keep drier and let nature do it's thing.A properly cared for flytrap will reward you in Spring with lots of big semi-erect leaves and traps...and nice flower spikes too !! Hope this is of help to all these malformed trap troubles :) Also,check the growth centers and underside of leaves for pests{mainly aphids} They are notorious for making malformed,twisted leaves...especially with Drosera sp.But most of all.....Enjoy C.P.!! Brian Barnes in D.binata infested Longwood,Fl. :) ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:08:28 -0000 Subject: Re: Chinosol Hi Loyd, I got a jar of Chinosol tablets from Whitestone Gardens, a UK cactus nursery. Their web address is http://www.demon.co.uk/mace/whitestn.html. NigelH ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 06:26:55 EST Subject: Re: CP JAN The last flowers happen the end of Sept. on both Drosera (names not registered, Uuganous, Planehorn) one of my Planehorns is in a pot at the Tampa Fair looking neat. Also my Drosera do have a Camilan quality, in the sence that they conform to the size of the plant. pot. ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:36:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Perlite v Polystyrene >-Polystyrene can have a tendency to often be toxic. From a posting I read >on the list a few weeks ago (I apologize to the author for not recalling >their name) somebody had colored polystyrene figure-eights (I believe >coloring may not be the only source of toxicity, by the way) in the bottom >of a pot for drainage, and the Nepenthes' roots grew through them and >subsequently the plant grew less and less healthy. Obviously small >polystyrene balls are a smaller target for roots, but nevertheless toxicity >from this risk in addition to any other nasties shed by the polystyrene make >it inferior to perlite. >-Don't encourage those polluting polystyrene companies by investing in their >products in this case when there are much better alternatives! > >I hope I was of some help. > >Matt - TheEdge@amdyne.net I would just like to add to this: A few years ago I grew a hardy lily in a six-inch pot which was to be planted out in the garden after blooming (a common practice of mine to get some early colour after a long dark Canadian winter). When potting up I used two (and just _two_) "peanuts" of light green styrofoam packing among other crocking material at the bottom of the pot, figuring no harm as I had used the white peanuts before. The lily grew normally to just under three three feet and started to bloom with a crown of 8-10 buds on the top. The buds then started to "stunt" and some dropped off. This had never happened to me before with these no-brainer bulbs unless there was a cultural problem (usually uneven watering). Suspecting a critter or a fungus attacking the bulb, I unpotted the plant and found nothing in the soil or on/in the bulb. It had apparently healthy roots _except_ where they had penetrated the green styrofoam peanuts. Older roots were dead or dying while the newer roots around the peanuts were discoloured with few root hairs. I repotted without the peanuts in new soil and the plant lived, but stopped blooming. It took two seasons in the garden to recover. I have since learned that coloured styrofoam of any sort is most likely to contain a glut of toxic chemicals, including fluoride, and the peanuts can be decades old negating many of today's manufacturing standards. I used to keep a large box of them, accumulated over the course of a dozen or so years, to pack boxes sent to family in the NWT. If they can seriously harm and stunt a tough lily, then I am sure that sensitive CPs would quickly suffer severe effects from being in contact with them. I no longer use any styrofoam products in any of my soil mixes. I have used perlite, which is manufactured by heating stone until it expands, much like popcorn, for over twenty years and consider it an excellent soil amendment for cps. One minor point: Algae will grow on the stuff in moist mixes when it is exposed to light. I find this to be more of a cosmetic problem than anything else, but it could become a real problem when used in conjunction with seed germination. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 07:51:16 -0500 Subject: Re: VFTs Hi All: > >>Does anyone have suggestions as to why a Venus Fly-Trap plant would >>start to >>have very wide leaves with very small traps? Some of the traps are only an >>eigth of an inch long and appear to be malformed. > >I had the same results with some plants i tried to cultivate without >any domancy, which means relatively high temperatures and low light >(maybe 8 hours a day). >I've only used rainwater and i haven't changed the soil, so i don't >think fertilizer was the problem in my case. >The mentioned plants startet to grow normal in the next spring. > >Marco. Are we taking into account the propensity for VFTs, as with other CPs to form two sets of seasonal leaves? Spring leaves in Dionea tend to be short and flaring at the ends with smaller traps, sometimes none at all. Later in the season, the leaves tend to be longer, more erect and slender. These usually carry the mature and largest traps. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:04:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Strange pygmy Drosera Thanks to Jan and Nigel for answering my query. My plants have been flowering one-at-a-time, and the flowers don't stay open very long so I usually miss them. I was fortunate enough to catch another one opened a couple days ago and it looks an awful lot like what Lowrie has identified as "D. nitidula ssp. omissa * D. occidentalis ssp. occidentalis." This flower, however clearly had _5_ deep-red stigmas, but were quite club-shaped as they should be. I wonder if maybe the first flower was somewhat deformed and the deep red color in the center may have just been a 5th stigma malformed and wrapped around the center of the flower or something. The plants otherwise pretty closely match the description, other than the inflorescences being completely non-glandular. I would still like to be able to catch a couple more flowers opened, though. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: Antonio Peixoto Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 16:01:04 +0000 Subject: Self-introduction Hi, everyone My name is Ant=F3nio Peixoto, I live in Portugal and just entered the listserver. My interest in CP's comes from the fact that I just finished my degree in Biology and during this I met a friend of mine, who was interested in Orchids, that initiated me in the world of plants. After that the interest in CP's came obviously with time, especially by the fact that they turn around the table in the "normal" food chain of plant-herbivorous-.... Since then I started to grow some CP's, in particularly D. intermedia, D. canpensis, D. alicia, Dionea muscipula, Sarracenia purpurea, Drosophylum lusitanicum, etc. So my interests enlarge my CP collection, know more about CP's biology (because I'm just beginig), how to grow them and of course share information about them The first question that I would like to ask the group is about Byblis liniflora, that I received from Brazil, and what's the best way to grow them from seeds? Hoping to here from YOU soon TOZ=C9 ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:49:37 PST Subject: Re: Mellard's favorite hybrid David wrote regarding s Sarr hybrid: >I'm seeing something more so please tell me what you think. I think >there's also some alata in there because of the pale yellow on the >top side of the hood. Believe it or not, in form this is a very typical leuco x flava hybrid. I guess what makes this one prettier than most is the color, and the color is not too difficult to explain. The red throat of this hybrid is typical of the 'rugellii' flavas of the FL panhandle. As for the red rim, there are 'rugellii' flavas in the wild with red rims. Another feature worth noting is the size. This plant is 3+ feet and has a wide opening. Flavas and their hybrids are usually the only Sarrs with these two characteristics. This is an important feature in eliminating alata as a potential parent. >I've seen fields of what I thought were alata where the hoods are >pale yellow with lots of fenestrations and the underside >of the hood is red. Do you mean fenestrations or do you mean veining? The only alatas with fenestrations( "windows") are the Texas forms. It is believed that the Texas forms are intrabred hybrids with the S.rubra'alabamensis' or S.leuco genes to explain the presence of fenestrations. Also, the Texas forms are simply veined and quite typical. The alatas with red under their hoods are typical of the Mississippi alatas and these alatas usually have accompanying veining. >I have a couple like that in my bogs, too, that I bought as alatas >but now am not sure if they are true alatas or some >hybrid because Don Schnell doesn't describe alatas as having >fenestrated hoods. Check Slack '86. >Two things are fascinating with this hybrid: the hood and the >fantastic pink rim on the pitcher. The underside of the hood is not >fenestrated but rather a dark red, which reminds me of the alatas >described in theprevious paragraph. If this plant were grown in less light, the fenestrations( from the leuco gene) would become obvious. The red under the hood that reminds you of alata, comes from the flava parent. Many flavas in the Fl panhandle have a red throat and red veining radiating from the red throat. >It makes me wonder if one of the parents is a red tube form. Isn't >there a red tubed leuco? I know there are red tubed flavas. There are red tube leucos out there, but it probably isn't a factor in this hybrid. As I've mentioned, there are 'rugellii' flavas with red rims. >I find it difficult to believe that one cross could produce this or >maybe I should say crossing a typcial flava with a typical leuco. That is where luck and years of hybridizing experience becomes important. In this case mother nature came to the FL panhandle and made this hybrid, since it was found in the wild. How many times have you seen a flava x purp hybrid? I assume a thousand times. You'll notice that each is different in it's own subtle way. Some are tall and topple after the slightest breeze. Others have different veining or no veining. The possibilities are endless. Dr.Mellichamp has the most beautiful flava x purp that I have ever seen. He calls the plant 'Black Ankle' and it looks like it has black ankles. The plant is only 6-8" tall and it has a beautiful blend of orange to almost black on the back of the pitcher. As well, the pitcher is very sturdy and never topples. >What do you think of this proposal for duplicating this hybrid? You could come close if you select the right parents. Isn't the plant going to be available from tissue culture? I know that many people(just like yourself) have been raving about this plant after the conference and I thought it was mentioned that the plant may be cloned. >red rugelii flava x leuco >grow it for 5 years >(red rugelii flava x leuco) x alata with pale yellow, fenestrated top >hood and red > underside hood (and having it with red tubes if alata's come >that way.) >grow it for 5 years you get www.jps.net/cgardner/DaveM-1.jpg. Using alata as a parent would probably take away from the size of the pitcher and the diameter of the opening. Most alata x leuco hybrids are short and the hood in no way resembles flava. >Hybrids don't usually excite me so much since I like exploring the >natural variation that occurs in species. But this one, sorry to go >on like this, but this one takes my breath away. This sounds similar to me. I never liked any Sarr hybrids because I thought they were mutts, but the hybrids hold the true beauty of the genus. Best wishes, Stefan ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:06:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: stryo -v- perlite Hi folks, In reference to the question of which would be better for Nepenthes, styrofoam pellets or perlite, I would go with perlite. While both materials are light, and help loosen up tight soils, perlite holds water while styro does not. This helps me in making it so that I do not have to water as frequently. In winter I can get away with watering once or twice a week, in a heated greenhouse. In summer though I water daily, but not to keep the soil moist as much as to keep the humidity high. The use of perlite will provide reservoirs for the roots of the Nepenthes, and other plants of course, to utilize in between waterings. This way, you need not worry quite so much about overwatering the Nepenthes. Echoing Perry's reccomendation, if you chose to use styrofoam, use ONLY white stryofoam, all others are quite toxic to plants. Good growing folks! Andrew ps. I am not the same Andrew who was posting with the seed list yesterday, or the one listed as help to the fellow that annoyed folks recently with a rather heated posting and the list of cheap and quite rare Nepenthes. ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:21:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP live spagnum Richard I think you found it my dear Watson. The third time. Any way they (spagnum) grew in my bowl, with a clear top, growing out of wet peat. If the saying was beyond your time, Watson was a private detective in a movie. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:18:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Watson... Randy, > I think you found it my dear Watson....If the saying was beyond your time, > Watson was a private detective in a movie. And apparently before your time :-) The character of Watson was penned by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in his famous Sherlock Holmes novels. And Watson was not a private detective but rather a physician. Holmes was the detective. Check out the books--they're a lot of fun. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:21:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Self-introduction Hi Antonio and welcome to THEE list. It's nice to have some one from the home of Drosophyllum lusitanicum. I'm trying to successfully germinate and grow Drosophyllum right now and have two young seedlings with more soon to sprout -- hopefully. And thanks to members who sent me Drosophyllum seeds recently. I am determined to grow this plant. Antonio, I'd appreciate it if you could share what you know about the habitat of Drosophyllum, particularly the soil matrix, pH, temperature variation during the year, and rainfall variation. I taught a risk assessment and toxicology course in Portugal about 5 years ago and still remember the warm times I had teaching in Oporto, Portuguese food, a train ride along the Duoro River, coffee, Lisboa, port wine, and the friendly people everywhere. Muito obrigado for you help, David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:31:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Mellard's favorite hybrid Hi Stefan, Thanks very much for the thoughtful response. I may have to start breeding some leuco x flava to seed what kinds of results I get. I'll have to look at the hood of the alata's more closely now to make sure that it's fenestrations that I'm seeing. Chuckle, I just saw the subject line. I guess I'm smitten. David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 14:38:00 -0500 Subject: Mellard's favorite hybrid Stefan and Larry are gently persuading me that it's a flava x leuco hybrid and the likelihood of alata being in their is small to none. It certainly was fun to guess and I was convinced a week ago that alata just had to be there. Now, along with my quest of finding the turbo Darlingtonia (a heat-tolerant clone) and a Drosophyllum that lives with my watering techniques, I'd like to germinate some rugellii flava x leuco. However, I'm a bit impatient and don't want to wait a year to get my own seed. Anyone got any seeds of this hybrid to share? The usual, I'll trade, buy, or whatever applies. David Atlanta ################### From: "Zachary Kaufman" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:49:25 PST Subject: Nepenthes mirablis var. echinostoma It seems that all the photographs I see of Nepenthes mirablis var. echinostoma are of the upper pitchers--showing the wide peristome. Do the lower pitcher have a distinctly wide peristome as well? --Zachary-- ################### From: "CP-MAN" Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 15:55:07 -0500 Subject: CP GREENHOUSES I am ordering one of those greenhouse kits for my cp . I can't wait to get it!Has anyone ever ordered a kit off the net for a greenhouse?What size is everyone's greenhouse? Does anyone have pics. on their web page of the inside or outside of their greenhouse? If so let me know,thanks. Robert Hood p.s. I am looking for any Nep. cuttings people don't want? And/or to purchase some Nepenthes seed (anything OTHER than ventricosa, alata, or rafflesiania). ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 18:06:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Nepenthes food Hi folks, Nepenthes gourmet chef here. I couldn't resist getting in on this question. Here is a list of what I have fed to my Nepenthes, I will preface it with the following... a Nepenthes will 'eat' anything that is put in it's trap. Not being able to regurgitate, it has no choice. It may not digest everything though. The list... flies, crickets, earwigs(pincerbugs), pill bugs (sowbugs), beetles of all sorts and sizes, moths, caterpillars... in short all types of bugs can be safely fed to the plant. Now the wierd list... slugs (chopped in half to prevent escaping) earthworms, pinkie mice and pinkie rats, baby snakes, snails, small frogs, small lizards. Some of these were residents in the greenhouse and actually 'fed' themselves to the plants...lizards, frogs... and the rest were fed either dead ot alive. The plants don't care. There is no need to go to the lengths I have as far as feeding your plants. Most of the time it is overkill anyway. I would go with what ever insects you can purchase from the local pet shop, until spring provides natural ones. Slugs are really good also, but you must kill them, or else they will just crawl out and away, to ravage the plants later. To answer now on 'uppers and lowers'. Upper traps are the hanging ones, produced when the plant is in vine. They are usuallt trumpet or horn shaped. Lowers are produced from the lower leaves of the plant and are often quite different then the uppers in being squat, jug shaped, or urn shaped things with frills and a more pronounced peristome perhaps. They are often more colourful then the uppers as well. If your plant is only producing uppers, and you want to get lowers, let the plant go into vine and let the vine hang downwards. The weight of this vine will stress the base of the plant enough eventually to make it produce basal rosettes, whigh will produce lower traps. Best wishes Andrew ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:58:12 -0500 Subject: Re: CP seeds In CP Digest 1353 Andrew wrote: How do you stratify Sarracenia seeds and care for them? Since I don't have a fungal spray, can ROOTONE,the rooting hormone powder with Fungicide be used instead? > > Thanks a lot! > > -Andrew- Here is what has worked for me in the past stratifying Sarracenia seed. I use ordinary coffee filter paper (the kind your sundry one in the kitchen takes) and damp it down with a solution of distilled water and fungicide. You can probably do the same with Rootone. After thoroughly wetting the paper I take my seed and sprinkle it on. Fold it in half, roll it up, and stick it in a small airtight container. I use 2" glass vials with a rubber top but you could also use a small ziplock sandwich bag rolled up and secured with a rubber band. Then just stick it inside your refrigerator towards the back of a shelf. I leave the seeds there around 8 weeks. A day before sowing I put the seed vials in the freezer for 24 hours. This process mimics a naturally occurring hard freeze in Sarracenia habitats. I prepare pots with pure chopped live sphagnum, take the seed vials out of the freezer and wait for them to thaw out (about an hour). I sprinkle the seeds thinly over the surface of the moss without covering them with any further medium. Then they get a nice soaking blast of distilled water and fungicide and are put in one of my indoor tanks. The pots are positioned about a foot away from a pair of 40-watt full spectrum flourescents on a 14 hour photoperiod. I always keep about a half inch of standing water on the bottom of the tanks to provide high humidity and a sheet of glass over the top. Depending on how fresh your sarr seeds are expect to see signs of germination within 2-4 weeks. Using a magnifying lens of about 15 power you'll notice a small green tendril emerging from the side of the seed and extending down into the medium. Hope this helps! Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:04:38 +0100 Subject: Re: Free seeds : Message to JoHn Message for JoHn Haddon, , other people of the list can ignore it. This is the second message I try to send you that keeps bouncing back. Is there something wrong with your mail server ? Here is the message. Dear JoHn: > I'm sending an S.A.E. as soon as I find out how to do it > internationally. I've been told it is straight forward. Go to a local post office, buy one (surface mail, should be OK as you live in the UK) or two (if you want it delivered by air mail) International Reply Coupons, get two envelopes, on one you write your address and you put the IRC's inside, bend the envelope and put it into the other, put as many local stamps on it to get it in Belgium, put my address on it and put it into a mailbox. As you said, it is straight forward. Kind regards Wim ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:24:31 GMT Subject: Growing Heliamphora from seed Hi, Recently I aquired some Heliamphora Heterodoxa x Nutans seeds. Can anyone recommend the best time to sow these and what method should be used? I am in the UK with a greenhouse and limited size terrarium where a H. Heterodoxa x Ionasii is growing happily. Thanks, Andrew --=20 Andrew Bate | andrew@astilla.demon.co.uk | http://www.astilla.demon.co.uk ################### From: Andrew Bate Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:24:25 GMT Subject: How best to package CP's when selling? Hi, Can anyone give me ideas on how best to package CP's to put in the post when selling them? I want to mainly start selling off some off my Sarracenia and Darlingtonia - the plants range in size from seedlings to mature plants. I've been growing CP's for the last 10 years but have only previously sold them by driving to a nursery and selling them to them or selling them through friends and relatives. Unfortunately I find you need to really sell to people who know what they are buying and not many of my friends and relatives know much about CP! Any advice on packaging for postal transit would be appreciated! Andrew --=20 Andrew Bate | andrew@astilla.demon.co.uk | http://www.astilla.demon.co.uk ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:22:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: How right you are Perry I'm just a Spring chicken, Watson was before my time. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: Christophe Bauffe - Zoologie =?iso-8859-1?Q?g=E9n=E9rale_?= et Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:45:15 +0000 Subject: pollen of nepenthes hi list, i need you. I should wished to receive some pollen for a nepenthes. His flower is opened today. Please, help me. Thank you very much. Christophe =20 ------------------------------------------------------ Christophe Bauffe Unit=E9 de Zoologie g=E9n=E9rale et appliqu=E9e Facult=E9 des Sciences agronomiques=20 Passage des D=E9port=E9s, 2 5030 Gembloux, Belgium T=E9l : 081/62.22.86. - Fax : 081/62.23.12. E-mail : bauffe.c@fsagx.ac.be ################### From: "Andy Falshaw" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 10:37:19 GMT+1200 Subject: Unusual pygmy droseras Derek, Nigel et al I'm confused that your pygmies are flowering now, in the middle of your winter, whilst at the same time mine are flowering in NZ outdoors. How do you grow your plants? Do they flower more than once a year? Andy ################### From: Danny Hammons Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:00:57 -0600 Subject: Spring arrives in Dallas Hello all. Just wanted to let you know that spring has arrived in Dallas. A couple of weeks ago, one of my S. leucophyllas sent up a flower stalk. I was at first alarmed, as it was still January. However, since then, all but a couple of my S. alatas have sent up flower stalks; my S. rubra is sending one up; the D. Binatas are getting ready to bloom; the D. intermedias are coming out of dormancy; a couple of hybrid VFTs have produced flower stalks; and hundreds of D. intermedia seedlings have burst to life in my sphagnum bogs. Needless to say, I'm excited about a new growing season getting under way......(perhaps arriving a little early thanks to El Nino). I've started taking pictures and am currently redesigning my homepage for a new season. I hope to have it up and running in the next week. I'll drop back in with my web address when in it's ready! Good Growing, Danny ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:21:13 GMT Subject: Re: CP live spagnum Richard On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 10:34:02 -0800, you wrote: >I think you found it my dear Watson. The third time. Any way they >(spagnum) grew in my bowl, with a clear top, growing out of wet peat. = If=20 >the saying was beyond your time, Watson was a private detective in a >movie. >=20 > >Randy Palmer >sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us > *Grin*... Ohh I think I've heard of Watson... nearly elementary don't you say 'ol chap?=20 Thanks for the info... I'm formulating a new plan for the sphagnum growing dilemma ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:25:02 GMT Subject: Re: Cultivating Sphagnum? (I Just CANT do it!) On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 07:50:25 -0800, you wrote: >I put a layer of charcoal on the bottom of the aquarium, maybe 1/2 inch >or so. To this I add a thick layer (2 to 5 inches) of the following >mix: dead, long fibered sphagnum, perlite, charcoal. I'm not >scientific about the amounts of each. Just like the idea of perlite >making it airier and charcoal keeping it sweeter. On top of this layer, >I add live sphagnum. To this I add rainwater so that I see an inch or >so of water on the bottom. David, Thanks for the in-depth reply... Actually my 'ol 5 1/2 gallon tank is well suited to this... I already have the peat, charcoal, and long fibre sphagnum already (was my VFT tank until the big 55 gallon one showed up!)... I think I'll try this just to see... I did have some live moss in the tank as the VFT's were living there and had no sign of new growth, however, I'm assuming it was because of the high temps and humidity I kept my VFT's.. I think I'll try yours first since I have most of it setup already ;) Thanks again for everything! ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: "Capestany" Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:43:39 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes Stuff Okay... I have held back all my questions about Nepenthes long enough thinking that I might find out on my own in books or from this listserve, but so far they have not been asked or answered, so here it goes... 1. Is there really a need to separate highland and lowland species because of temperature? Couldn't they all just grow together in the same terrarium with a "medium" temperature? 2. Is there any big difference in the type of soil needed between highlanders and lowlanders? Is an "all live sphagnum with a bit of charcoal and perlite" mixture okay for Neps? Which soil mix can go the longest without going bad? 3. To support my Nepenthes as they get taller I was thinking of adding some kind of branch or something natural that would add a nice touch to my terrarium. Is the "driftwood" sold at pet shops for aquariums O.K. for my Neps? Can I just go to the forest and cut off any old branch and stick it in my terrarium, or is there a special process that it has to go through to prevent it from rotting or releasing bad chemicals into the soil? 4. Does the legendary "Superthrive" really exist? I have gone from Wal-Marts to super-specialized nurseries asking about it but no one knows what it is!!! Is there any place in Virginia that sells it? Thanks a bunch for any helpful answers! -dr.cap Alexandria, Virginia USA ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:12:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Nepenthes Stuff dr.cap wrote: > 1. Is there really a need to separate highland and lowland species because > of temperature? Couldn't they all just grow together in the same terrarium > with a "medium" temperature? You will find, after enduring pain, suffering and frustration, that Nepenthes _thrive_ when they're given exactly what they want. Otherwise they just "casually exist" which means they don't look their best. Yes, you can grow some highlanders and lowlanders together in "compromise conditions". Although they'll survive, they won't look that great. Pitcher production will suffer, growth will be slow.... Some growers are proposing _four_ growth zones for Nepenthes: lowland, highland, ultrahighland, and a level between lowland and highland (medium- land?). Bicalcarata and ampullaria would be examples of lowland, tentaculata and fusca would be examples of highland, rajah and villosa would be examples of ultra highland, and maxima and sanguinea (I think) would be examples of "medium-land". This is based on some peoples' experience that the plants do best when given the conditions of their natural habitat. > 2. Is there any big difference in the type of soil needed between > highlanders and lowlanders? Is an "all live sphagnum with a bit of charcoal > and perlite" mixture okay for Neps? Which soil mix can go the longest > without going bad? Some growers have found that ultra-highlanders do better in a soil that has a high mineral content. Spahgnum/perlite/charcoal will do nicely for a wide range of Nepenthes, though. As to which soil mix goes the longest without going bad, it depends on the conditions you're providing. For me, rehydrated dry sphagnum and perlite lasts a while. For Cliff Dodd, the stuff breaks down very fast (he lives in Florida, where the conditions are warmer than the DC area most of the year). > 3. To support my Nepenthes as they get taller I was thinking of adding some > kind of branch or something natural that would add a nice touch to my > terrarium. If you let the vines hang under the pot, you'll promote more basal growth. But I understand that that's hard to do in a terrarium. > 4. Does the legendary "Superthrive" really exist? Yes it exists. If you live in Alexandria, VA then you're not too far away from Kensingon (MD) Orchids. They sell it. I don't know who carries it in the Commonwealth. Anyway, your plants are not lacking much without it. You'd do best to concentrate on temperature, lighting, and humidity first. Regards, Perry Malouf (Bethesda, MD) ################### From: Matt Miller Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:41:28 -0800 Subject: CP Chat Room on My Page Hello Everybody out there in CP land, I have just made a new addition to my web page. I have added a section with a chat room in in. The chat room is called Carnivorous Plant Chat. It is very easy to use, and requires no plugins or special downloading. It is also unlisted on any other part of the web so only you guys and other cp enthusiast who visit my site will know it exists. That way we can keep out anyone who is not interested in talking about CP or related topics (ie. people who come on those chat rooms and say kinky sex stuff and use inappropriate language. The only down side to it is that you need a java enabled browser to chat there. I was hoping if you guys like it we could have a regular discussion like around 5 pm (Standard US Eastern time) each night, and we could chat in real time about the subjects that are currently being discussed on this listserve. Come on over and check it out. You can find it through my web site under the CP chat room link. My web site is at: http://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/main.htm or you can follow this link directly to the chat page: http://www.paonline.com/mrmiller/cpchat.htm Hope to see some of you there, Matt Miller ################### From: Borneo Exotics Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:37:23 +0500 Subject: re: Nepenthes mirabilis var. echinostoma Zachary wrote: .... It seems that all the photographs I see of Nepenthes mirablis var. echinostoma are of the upper pitchers--showing the wide peristome. Do the lower pitcher have a distinctly wide peristome as well? Yes they do, but not to the same extent as the uppers. All the mirabilis var. echinostoma that I ahve observed in the wild only seems to produce lower pitchers whilst quite juvenile and start to climb early in life. The peristome on lower pitchers is much wider than on the more common mirablis forms, but lacks the upraised ribs that (I presume) gives rise the the name 'echinostoma'. I have some photographs around here somewhere which I will dig out and put on the website www.borneoexotics.com Rob ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:38:29 +0100 Subject: Re: How best to package CP's when selling? Dear Andrew > Can anyone give me ideas on how best to package CP's to put in the > post when selling them? I want to mainly start selling off some off > my Sarracenia and Darlingtonia - the plants range in size from > seedlings to mature plants. > I have received CP's in very good health that were sandwiched between damp Sphagnum, put into a plastic bag and packaged in a diskette box. Another way that worked well is to take some kitchen roll paper, put the seedlings with their roots between the sheets, put it into a plastic bag and add some rain water. Seal the bag, including some air. Put all the bags in one plastic bag and seal that one too, including some air, so it fits nicely in a box. The air will provide the plants with protection against shocks and insulate them. Kind regards Wim ################### From: KILSMOOTH@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 05:31:54 EST Subject: Packing C.P. for postal transit Hi-de-ho cp'ers! Brian here...Here's how i've been packing cp for years and i've had no problems at all;...First,knock the plant gently from it's "home",and remove most loose soil..Secondly,remove dead growth and rinse plant in a bucket of water{tapwater is fine}...Thirdly,place plant in a ziplock bag,add a big pinch of sphagnum{moist} to keep a little moisture in the bag......Fourth,place plants in a suitable box and remove extra spacing in box with crumpled newspaper{See,that junkmail stuff is good for something!!!}Seal tightly and awwwaaayyy we go!! :) The most important thing is to remove all extra space in the box after plants are added,and to keep a little air in the ziplocks to aid in cellular respiration....Good luck and Enjoy C.P.!!!!Bri :) ################### From: de Waal Cobus Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 13:08:05 +0100 Subject: Feeding VFTs Hi, I've recently joined the CP mail list. I live in Namibia which is just Northwest of South Africa. Our humidity is very low here (we have the oldest desert in the world (the Namib), in our country), but I've managed to keep my 2 VFTs (which I bought in South Africa) alive and well for a few months now. I've planted them in a 50 : 50 mix of sand and dried moss. I'm not sure whether the moss is Sphagnum, because I have seen it in the 'wild' in South Africa. The moss is sold at nurseries as an esthetic ground cover for pot plants. I've tested its pH and it is very acidic. My questions: 1) Does sphagnum moss only grow in Canada, the USA and Australia, or can it be that they are indigenous to South Africa as well ? 1) Can a VFT survive without food ? If not, how long ? What would happen if it gets too hungry, will its growth slow down ? 2) I've seen pictures of VFT where the leaf length : trap length ratio is about 1.5 : 1. Mine is about 3 : 1 to 4 : 1. What determines this ratio, could it be light intensity ? ################### From: Antonio Peixoto Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 13:39:32 +0000 Subject: What does D. lusitanicum like? HI members of THEE list, First of all I would like to thanks the reception of the list members, especially David Mellard and Andre Marcelo. Now to answer David Mellard's question about the habitat of the D. lusitanicum. Since I live in the contry where they grow naturally, I never came across any problems in growing D. lusitanicum but for someone who doesn't live here in Portugal it may be a little dificult. The reason that I think so is that this CP is not like any other CP's I've ever seen,in terms of habitat. This CP grows in a hill with almost no vegetation to protect them, the soil is hard, full of rocks and a little bit "yellow" (sorry for the expression but I can't find the correct word in English), sorry but I know the pH of the soil. About the temperature and rain, as far as I can tell this CP must be a tough one, because it gets heavy rain and cold in Winter and Fall, and in the Summer it gets a lot of hot and the soil becomes very dry that time of the year. BUT my experience in growing them tells me that you must be careful with the cold especially whem they are sedlings and you may only water them twice a week. After that and when you have the grown plant you don't need to feed them because I can tell you that the leaves on this CP will capture aything that comes by. I hope this will help in any way TOZE ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:02:21 -0000 Subject: Pygmies - more Hi Laurent, Although unusual, I have had a few pygmies produce multiple growing points, including scorpioides. I think the record belongs to something labelled D pygmaea NSW, which looks as though it is about 10 plants but is actually one plant with multiple heads. I suspect I may have damaged the original growing point when harvesting gemmae. Regarding my comment about cutting the stalk of D scorpioides after it puts out aerial roots, don't do it if the stalk is still alive, as may be the case if the plant received inadequate conditions for summer dormancy. Hi Derek, Bad luck if your strange pygmy does turn out to be the 'Lake Badgerup' hybrid. I have received this under a variety of names including occidentalis 'South Coast', sp 'Beermullah' and lasiantha! Hi Andy, Most of my pygmies are well-behaved, but because I keep them under relatively poor conditions some of them do odd things from time to time. I have one that is concurrently producing flowers and gemmae! Good Growing, NigelH ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 11:28:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Mellard's favorite hybrid > Stefan and Larry are gently persuading me that it's a flava x leuco > hybrid and the likelihood of alata being in their is small to none. It > certainly was fun to guess and I was convinced a week ago that alata > just had to be there. > > Now, along with my quest of finding the turbo Darlingtonia (a > heat-tolerant clone) and a Drosophyllum that lives with my watering > techniques, I'd like to germinate some rugellii flava x leuco. However, > I'm a bit impatient and don't want to wait a year to get my own seed. > Anyone got any seeds of this hybrid to share? > > The usual, I'll trade, buy, or whatever applies. > > David > Atlanta David: I should have one or two different S. x mooreana seed sets around. As I recall one set is from a selfed hybrid and another set is from an F1 lueco x cutthroat. I have no idea about the amount of red in them. The picture that got this all started had a lot of red as compared to what I have seen in most S. x mooreana. In addition, most mooreana have dimorphic pitchers. Early pitchers are very flava like in shape with the lueco apparent in heavy aerole production and veining on the lid and upper tube while late summer pitchers are very lueco-like with more rolling of the column and flattening of the lid. This hybrid has always appealed to me, maybe because it was one of the first I found in the wild years ago. I would hazard to guess the picture (BTW, is it me or is the picture no longer available at that web site?) was an early pitcher - the early pitchers are the real beauties. Anyway, drop me a note for trade etc. Tom in Fl. ################### From: Glenn Rankin Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 8:47:42 PST Subject: Lowrie's '97/'98 catalog Hello list, The text of the new catalog is available from the listserver. To get a copy send the one line message >get cp cat.lowrie< to listserv@opus.hpl.hp.com. The file is just over 40kB. Lowrie offers the most extensive selection of commercially available CP seeds that I am aware of, but be forewarned that many species are notoriously hard to germinate. As time goes on, and as he (and we) learn more about what works, better yields can be expected. He offers tropical (Australian) drosera plants "up to February", but it is not clear whether he means the beginning, the end, or somewhere in the middle of the month. Tubers from Australian tuberous Drosera are available till March. Gemmae from pygmy Drosera must be ordered by April. His CP seeds are available year round. He also offers seeds and tubers of Australian and non-Australian terrestrial orchids. Glenn Rankin rankins@ix.netcom.com ################### From: James Tovee <106361.2125@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:09:32 -0500 Subject: Perlite v polystyrene It would be safer to use horticultural perlite. All polystyrene cannot be bad as it is used for pots and trays to rear plants commercialy= =2E Jim Tovee ################### From: James Tovee <106361.2125@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:12:51 -0500 Subject: Saracenia hybrid >Two things are fascinating with this hybrid: the hood and the fantastic= pink rim on the pitcher. The underside of the hood is not >fenestrated b= ut rather a dark red, which reminds me of the alata's described in the previous paragraph. Also, I can see pink rims on >my leuco's as they a= ge but never to this degree and not quite so vibrant. It makes me wonder if= one of the parents is a red tube form. >Isn't there a red tubed leuco? = I know there are red tubed flavas. >My guess is that one of the parents is red tubed. I'm trying to remembe= r whether or not red acts as dominant/recessive or whether >it's (and I can't remember the scientific name for it) a multigene >inheritance that allows varying shades. My guess is the later since we see such variation in red colour in pitchers. >When you've seen flava x leuco hybrids, do they ever look like this? For= those who have the flava x leuco cross in your cp collection, >do they lo= ok like the one in Craig's website? I find it difficult to believe that on= e cross could produce this or maybe I should say >crossing a typical flav= a with a typical leuco. What do you think of this proposal for duplicating this hybrid? red rugelii flava x leuco >grow it for 5 years (red rugelii flava x leuco) x alata with pale yellow= , fenestrated top hood and red underside hood (and having it with >red tubes if alata's come that way.) grow it for 5 years you get www.jps.net/cgardner/DaveM-1.jpg. The hybrid you described sounds similar to one I received from Peter Cole last summer. It has the fenstrations of leucophylla and a definite red rim all round the edge of the hood. It was about two foot high, it may grow taller this coming year. It was called Lynda Butt. I believe that hybrids have the potential to be the most attractive plants = as in all other cultivated plants. I thought the venus fly trap produced large leaves with small traps, When they were well fed and did not need to catch any more food. = Jim Tovee ################### From: John Walker Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:41:48 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Feeding VFTs At 03:21 AM 2/12/98 -0800, you wrote: >My questions: >1) Can a VFT survive without food ? If not, how long ? What would happen >if it gets too hungry, will its growth slow down ? Yes, a vft can live and grow without ever being fed. It will grow faster and be more robust if fed occasionally. I generally feed each trap once before it dies. >2) I've seen pictures of VFT where the leaf length : trap length ratio >is about 1.5 : 1. Mine is about 3 : 1 to 4 : 1. What determines this >ratio, could it be light intensity ? Light intensity may have some to do with this but seasonal changes also occur. Winter leaves tend to be shorter and broader and in Summer the leaves tend to be thinner and longer. Hope this helps, John in Phoenix ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:52:17 -0500 Subject: RE: Feeding VFTs Congratulations on keeping your VFTs alive in a challenging environment, and welcome to the list! > Can a VFT survive without food ? If not, how long ? > What would happen if it gets too hungry, will its > growth slow down ? I kept a VFT alive on a screened porch for over a year. It got (almost) nothing to eat and less than full sun. By the time I finally gave it away to someone who could take care of it properly, it was still alive but looking weak. The lack of food and sun certainly inhibited its growth. On the flip side, there are many stories of people noticing growth spurts in their CPs after feeding. My VFTs did particularly well this summer feeding on the squash bores (grubs) that I removed from my dying zucchini plants. > I've seen pictures of VFT where the leaf length : > trap length ratio is about 1.5 : 1. Mine is about 3 : > 1 to 4 : 1. What determines this ratio, could it be > light intensity ? Light intensity is a large factor. I have heard mentioned that the moistness of the soil also has an effect. I would think that VFTs growing in very wet locations would be likely to grow long leaves in order to avoid having their traps inundated when it rains, but that's pure speculation. Last but not least, my plants seem to grow wider, shorter leaves when heading into dormancy. Since my plants always experience dormancy as cooler temperatures and reduced light, I can't rule out one or the other as a contributor to leaf shape. Cooler temps might also have an effect. Good growing, Phil ################### From: Necropsy69@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:51:36 EST Subject: Re: Nepenthes Stuff Capestany wrote: >1. Is there really a need to separate highland and lowland species because >of temperature? Couldn't they all just grow together in the same terrarium >with a "medium" temperature? Well, from my experience of growing both highland and lowland species in the same terrarium, I've noticed that a large percentage of my highland plants are not producing pitchers, since the termperature and humidity is only significant to lowland nepenthes, which makes up a large portion of my nepenthes collection. Highland nepenthes enjoy temperatures around 60-65, which is around the middle of the their temperature range. IT's not too high and it's not too low. But, lowland nepenthes don't grow properly in these temperatures. Lowland nepenthes enjoy temperatures around the 75-85 degree range(or higher), which highland species don't grow that great in. >2. Is there any big difference in the type of soil needed between >highlanders and lowlanders? Is an "all live sphagnum with a bit of charcoal >and perlite" mixture okay for Neps? Which soil mix can go the longest >without going bad? Well, alot of growers prefer to have some sort of mixture, some of them being extremely complicated. I have successfully grown both highland and lowland nepenthes in live sphagnum moss. It provides a nice green background, it doesn't decompose quickly(since it's alive), and it absorbs water and retains it very well. Not only that, but it provides humidity around the plant as well. So, you don't really need to get technical when it comes to soil types. At least, I don't think so. >3. To support my Nepenthes as they get taller I was thinking of adding some >kind of branch or something natural that would add a nice touch to my >terrarium. Is the "driftwood" sold at pet shops for aquariums O.K. for my >Neps? Can I just go to the forest and cut off any old branch and stick it in >my terrarium, or is there a special process that it has to go through to >prevent it from rotting or releasing bad chemicals into the soil? Well, alot of growers cut the stem back, because as the plant grows larger, not only does it put stress on the plant, but the leaves growing near the base of the plant begin to die, decreasing the plant's beauty. So, instead of allowing it to grow larger with some type of a support, the stem is cut into sections and placed in containers to produce new plants(vegetative reproduction). This is very significant and beneficial because you still have the mother plant producing new stems, and you also have many cuttings which will eventually grow into plants identical to the mother plant. But, if you don't want to cut your nepenthes back, you can go outside and cut a small stem off of a tree (preferably a pine tree) and support your plant with it by inserting the stem into the soil which accupies the space around the plant and rap a string around the stem of the tree and the stem of your plant, thus connecting them. But, the when doing this, make sure you don't damage the roots of your nepenthes. And one more thing; the stem of the tree will not last a lifetime, remember that. It will eventually die and get moldy, especially when contained in a humid area. This could infect your nepenthes. >4. Does the legendary "Superthrive" really exist? I have gone from Wal-Marts >to super-specialized nurseries asking about it but no one knows what it i>s!!! Is there any place in Virginia that sells it? Superthrive, from what I know, is not this very popular solution. But, then again, I haven't used it, so you're better off asking someone else. Well, I hope this answers most of your questions. If you have any more questions to ask, feel free to e-mail me. I'm always willing to answer 'em. Bye for now Behrad ################### From: Necropsy69@aol.com Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:03:50 EST Subject: Re: Feeding VFTs >1) Does sphagnum moss only grow in Canada, the USA and Australia, or can >t be that they are indigenous to South Africa as well ? In some of the pictures I have viewed on the internet of nepenthes, I noticed that in some of pictures, there was sphagnum growing around the nepenthes, which were photographed in the wild. So, I believe sphagnum moss grows in Indonesia as well. >1) Can a VFT survive without food ? If not, how long ? What would happen >if it gets too hungry, will its growth slow down ? Well, they don't get "hungry," but if they are not fed at all for a long period of time, there might be some growth problems. But, all VFTs really need is direct sunlight, high humidity, and a nice wet medium. If you can provide these conditions, essencial for VFT growth, you don't really need to worry about feeding. But, it wouldn't hurt to throw in a small cricket into one of the traps every month or so. >2) I've seen pictures of VFT where the leaf length : trap length ratio >is about 1.5 : 1. Mine is about 3 : 1 to 4 : 1. What determines this >ratio, could it be light intensity ? The overall conditions is what determines their growth. But, there are different types of VFTs. Such as the 'dentate,' 'dentata,' bear trap form, and all of those mutants. So, I can't tell ya what exactly is causing the plants to grow so large. But, light is one of the major ingredients. Well, if you have any other questions, let me know. Bye for now Behrad ################### From: Palindro Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:37:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Want to become a parent I have a few CPs that I have had good luck with over the past couple of years despite the whole paragraph my houseplant book devotes to the care of VFTs ending with: "...don't be surprised if they shrivel up and die after a few months. Venus Fly Traps don't fare well in captivity..." My Sundews propagate just fine by themselves. I've already split the parent plant a dozen or so times in the past couple of years for repotting projects. My VFT and Purple Pitcher are another story. They grow like crazy but I have no clue how to create new plants from them. My VFT just sent up a flower stalk and I wonder if I can use this for propagation. Any suggestions? -Pal ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:53:51 +0800 Subject: Updated Homepage : new pix added Hi all, I have just updated my homepage with some new pictures of D. oblanceolata (flowers), as well as a little bit of organisation... ;-] I'm working on a page dealing with utrics, and an other one on neps... Gilles LARDY ------------------------------------------------------- Contact me at fytdw@hkabc.net or byblis@hotmail.com And check out my HK CP site on http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.htm ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:41:26 Subject: Re: Updated Homepage : new pix added Dear Gilles, > I have just updated my homepage with some new pictures of D. oblanceolata > (flowers), as well as a little bit of organisation... ;-] Is there any reason why nobody succeeded yet in taking photos of these flowers such that the styles are in focus and good contrast? It is almost *only* these styles that distinguish _D. oblanceolata_ clearly from _D. spatulata_, but all people who have possibly seen _D. oblanceolata_ in flower recently have wasted their time by examining and describing in great detail the leaves, peduncles, sepals, petals, filaments, anthers, but NEVER the styles. I fail to understand this. Kind regards Jan ################### From: mlysne@ccsmtp.syscon.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 98 08:38:09 -0500 Subject: Virginia source for superthrive > 4. Does the legendary "Superthrive" really exist? I have gone from Wal-Marts > to super-specialized nurseries asking about it but no one knows what it > is!!! Is there any place in Virginia that sells it? > Thanks a bunch for any helpful answers! > -dr.cap > Alexandria, Virginia > USA The Merrifield Virginia branch of Merrifield Gardens Nursery has stocked Superthrive in the past. I have not been into the nursery recently to know whether they have it in stock now. Mark Lysne Falls Church, VA ################### From: John Walker Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 08:11:00 -0700 (MST) XSubject: Virginia source for superthrive I had an internet bookstore search for the book written by Slack entitled "Carnivorous Plants" and they were able to find it. Unfortunatly they are charging $114.50 for it! I guess this explaines why the City of Phoenix library's three copies of the book are all listed as "lost". Does anybody know of a cheaper source for this book? Regards, John in Phoenix ************************************* >Hello from Amazon.com! We have new information about your order and >need to hear from you before proceeding. > > Ordered item: Adrian Slack "Carnivorous plants" > > Price: $114.50 > Shipping & handling charge: $3.95 > Total charge for item: $118.45 > Binding: Hardcover > >Amazon.com guarantees that our out of print matches are in >good condition - or better. "Good condition" refers to a >previously-read book that shows some signs of wear and may have >minor flaws, but has all pages and leaves present. ################### From: "Dan Tenaglia (BIO)" Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 10:35:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Intro. + Drosophyllum Hey list, Allow me to briefly introduce myself. I'm Dan Tenaglia form Tampa Fl. USA. I am a novice in the cp world having only grown some Sarracenia, Nepenthes, Dioneae, and Drosera species in the past (and present). I am currently the curator elect of the cacti and succulent collection at the University of South Florida Botanical Garden. Which brings me to my request. It was mentioned to me that Drosophyllum would make an interesting addition to our collection because of it's fairly xerophytic growing habits. I agreed and am now setting out to gather just a small quantity of seed to start some plants. If any of you kind, generous cp'ers out there have any seed or know where I can aquire some I would be grateful for your input. I have sent mail to Cambrian carn. but have gotten no response. I am more than willing to pay for the seed or I have plenty of surplus cacti and succs. if you're interested. Please email me privately if you can and thanks. Dan Tenaglia USF Botanical Garden dtenagli@chuma.cas.usf.edu ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:03:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Slack's book One of those un-enviable moments in life occurred seven years ago. I had just purchased a new, soft-bound copy of Slack's book, when I received a flier in the mail from one of those bulk bookclub discounters. They had 13 copies of Slack's book for sale for about $7 each. I thought about buying them for either re-sale or as gifts, but passed on the opportunity, thinking that I would NEVER find 13 other people who would want a copy of the book. I have mentally kicked myself many times since then. - Carl On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, John Walker wrote: > I had an internet bookstore search for the book written by Slack entitled > "Carnivorous Plants" and they were able to find it. Unfortunatly they are > charging $114.50 for it! I guess this explaines why the City of Phoenix > library's three copies of the book are all listed as "lost". Does anybody > know of a cheaper source for this book? > > Regards, > John in Phoenix > ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 15:05:53 EST Subject: Hanrahan's hybrid Greetings folks: Peter here in muddy California, which hasn't seen sun since thanksgiving. Concerning that fabulous Sarracenia hybrid on Bob Hanrahan's property, it is certainly one of the most beautiful plants I have ever seen. After the crowds left during the field trip, Bob, Marilee, myself, and someone else (can't remember the fourth person, but it may have been Ron Gagliardo) removed and divided the plant, so it could be tissued cultured. Someone took a photo of the event as I dug it out. Pieces were replanted, and Bob left with a couple of divisions. I certainly hope the plant is or was being worked on by Ron, so one day we all may grow this gorgous hybrid. As far as I can recall, Bob believed it to be a cross of S. flava "red tube" and leucophylla. It is really stunning. Incidentally, Marilee got a joyous call from Ron G. a couple of weeks ago, with the news that S. x 'Judith Hindle' is now in production. California Carnivores should have it available perhaps later this year. Hopefully further good news about S. x 'lamentations', S. purpurea 'red ruffles' and other of our cultivars will follow. Also, Ron was working on some of Adrian Slack's cultivars that I gave him. When finally distributed, profits from those handsome plants will be sent to Mr. Slack. Th-th-th-that's all, folks! Peter D'Amato ################### From: noman@aol.com Date: 13 Feb 1998 13:16:59 -0800 Subject: Action Advisory Notice 2/13/98 Hi there, It's our understanding that you have an interest in stocks and the stock market, therefore; I know that you can appreciate the following information. Stocks go up based on perception and recognition, our job is to find young, and emerging company's not yet recognized by the market. Once found, these company's are featured to our subscribers first and then the public. Our recognition program includes constant communication with stock brokers, conference calls, featured on our web site, and showcased in our e-mail network system. Our PR firm has, after building an extensive Investor Resource Center, highlighted some quality stocks, and all of our hard work is now paying off. We have had some great success with our recent stock picks, which has created a loyal following, and now we are ready to announce our newest stock pick. This is your opportunity to now get involved at the ground floor. Next week we will be highlighting a new and exciting company. You will have the opportunity to get involved with this company prior to our promotional campaign, which is geared towards the general public. This can be of substantial benefit to you. This is a technology company with some very exciting recent developments. The beauty about technological companies is that they tend to trade at very high P/E multiples, so the stock upside can be quite substantial. We have had some tremendous winners recently. Our most recent pick , Saf T Lok NASDAQ Symbol (LOCK) is up 100%, in just two months. We expect this company's stock to move up even more as they implement their business plan. You can look forward to receiving the information on this new company over the coming weekend. We will be featuring this company to all of our Broker Network and extensive e-mail database, don't let this new technology company get away. Remember the stock market is closed on Monday, so we suggest you act first thing Tuesday morning before the positive upward activity of this stock happens. Remember you got this information first, so act fast and take advantage of it. Talk to you in a couple of days. ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 19:58:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: Utricularia flowers Do only a few species of Utrics produce cleistogamous flowers, or is it a more or less common trait in the Genus? I'm trying to ID a Utric that doesn't appear to match any of the possible species it could be. (It is a Florida, USA native) It sent up an inflorescence a couple of weeks ago, so I thought, "Good! Now I can ID it!" but the flower has stayed cleistogamous... If I know that only a few species produce flowers like that, maybe I can narrow it down a little, anyway. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: CMcdon0923@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 20:24:06 EST Subject: Re: Slack's CP Book << I had an internet bookstore search for the book written by Slack entitled "Carnivorous Plants" and they were able to find it. Unfortunatly they are charging $114.50 for it! I guess this explaines why the City of Phoenix library's three copies of the book are all listed as "lost". Does anybody know of a cheaper source for this book? >> >From my understanding, it is rather difficult to find. I got my copy about 6 months ago through Collins' Books, and it cost me US $95. They had searched for 6 months for a copy for another person, who passed on it. I jumped at it! Expensive, yes, but a true joy to read. ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 21:48:51 -0500 Subject: CP of Australia book With all the recent talk of Adrian Slack's fine book I thought I'd post this request about another CP publication. And I know this is a longshot but here 'goes- Does anyone have a copy of " Carnivorous Plants of Australia Volume 1" they would like to sell? Anyone? I would be more than willing to pay a good price including shipping costs for this book. Thanks for any responses! Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 18:49:02 PST Subject: propagation of S.oreophila Hello again Cp-Dudes I have a inquiry for the propagation experts on the list. I just received some Sarracenia oreophila from Tom Khal of the Nepenthes Club. Many of the plants have off sets coming from the central rhizome. I have never asexually propagated a plant before so I was wondering if anybody can provide me with a simple procedure to follow on dividing off sets. Thank you -------------------------------------------- Justin T. Arthur 0 0 & Chapel Hill, NC 27514 \___/ United States Of America ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 11:13:55 +0800 Subject: Answer to a lack of style... Dear Jan, >Is there any reason why nobody succeeded yet in taking photos of these >flowers such that the styles are in focus and good contrast? It is >almost *only* these styles that distinguish _D. oblanceolata_ clearly >from _D. spatulata_, but all people who have possibly seen _D. >oblanceolata_ in flower recently have wasted their time by examining >and describing in great detail the leaves, peduncles, sepals, petals, >filaments, anthers, but NEVER the styles. I fail to understand this. Sorry to have wasted your time in watching such pictures, actually, the photography equipment I have available does not enable me to make closer shots. Anyway, I hope that giving away some plants to other collectors will enable some more skilled ones to fulfill your expectations. As regarding the styles, which are supposed to be twice forked (cf. drawing on Shing Lam Homepage), I doubt it is really the only characteristic distinguishing this species from D.spat_. Indeed, flower stalks are definitely different, as well as flowers themselves. The pictures I have on my page are from the only adult specimen I keep at home, but now that the weather is getting warmer and that the water starts to drop from the walls (drives me crazy....), I think I'm gonna make some shots in wild. Cheers, PS : I may seem a little bit upset, but that's just that, as you do, I wish I could make better shots... :-p ------------------------------------------------------------ Contact me at fytdw@hkabc.net or byblis@hotmail.com Ckeck out my CP Homepage on http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 02:21:07 -0500 Subject: Return of the Son of Superthrive >4. Does the legendary "Superthrive" really exist? I have gone from Wal-Marts >to super-specialized nurseries asking about it but no one knows what it i>s!!! Is there any place in Virginia that sells it? I've only been using this stuff since 1996 and the only thing that I can attest to is that superthrive DOES help out quite a bit with transplant stress. I use a capful per gallon of water and soak the roots of whatever I'm potting up in it for an hour or so. The plants seem to recover much quicker using it. I've noticed NO other differences, such as enhanced growth or pitcher production. The two places that I know carry it are California Carnivores (a link to them is in the CP Archive page), and Marie Selby Botanical Gardens in Sarasota, FL. (they also have a homepage). You might want to consider getting yourself a bottle, if not for the supposed results then for the GARISH snake oil label. A true piece of cheesy marketing Americana! Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: "Haakan Murevaern" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 17:23:46 +0100 Subject: Support for Nepenthes Hi all, >3. To support my Nepenthes as they get taller I was thinking of adding some >kind of branch or something natural that would add a nice touch to my >terrarium. Is the "driftwood" sold at pet shops for aquariums O.K. for my >Neps? Can I just go to the forest and cut off any old branch and stick it in >my terrarium, or is there a special process that it has to go through to >prevent it from rotting or releasing bad chemicals into the soil? If you want a branch that last long you should choose oak or larch. I have a larch branch in my terrarium right now. It is standing on a "foot" of a plastic dish. Then it has no contact with water in bottom of terrarium. Good luck Haakan Murevaern See my Carnivorous Plants at http://www.algonet.se/~murevarn ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 09:44:52 PST Subject: Re: SX'JudithHindle' Peter wrote: >Incidentally, Marilee got a joyous call from Ron G. a couple of weeks >ago, with the news that S. x 'Judith Hindle' is now in production. >California Carnivores should have it available perhaps later this >year. That's great news. I know I'm anxious to get a couple plants for myself. I've been familiar with the plant for about 2 years and had the fortune to see it in person last July. It is a beautiful plant and I appreciate your efforts in making this cultivar available to all. >Hopefully further good news about S. x 'lamentations', S. purpurea >'red ruffles' and other of our cultivars will follow. Also, Ron was >working on some of Adrian Slack's cultivars that I gave him. Is it just a coincidence or has the successful sale/introduction of the 'Red Dragon' VFT caused many more growers to introduce previously limited clones/cultivars into tissue culture? If my estimates are correct, there should be at least a dozen more CP cultivars(and plants not yet formally named) available from tc in the next couple years. I don't think that there has ever been such a conserted effort. Whatever the reason, CP growers will have a great selection of plants to grow. I know I'm anxiously awaiting. Please keep the list informed about the status of these long-awaited introductions. Thanks, Stefan Ploszak ################### From: AL850R Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:52:25 -0800 Subject: SLACK'S BOOKS I have both books written by Slack and published in 1979, 1986. I bought these at the library for $10.00 each. I don't see why they are priced so high? ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 00:57:26 +0000 Subject: I'm back Hi everyone, after several months unplanned absence, I'm back on the net. Any customers still waiting for orders from Cambrian Carnivores, please contact me and tell me what I still owe you - I'm afraid I lost my order book and address book when the computer crashed, though I've managed to rescue some (most I hope...) of it, so I've been unable to contact everyone individually. I am awfully sorry about the delay - I'll get the backlog sorted out ASAP. Happy growing, Peter ps: please reply to me personally - I'm running 4 months behind on following the CP list, so I probably won't see any postings here. +++ Peter Cole, 17 Wimmerfield Cr.,Killay,SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK +++ mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk - http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ ++++ Carnivorous Plants, seeds and tissue culture kits for sale ++++ ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 23:32:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Superthrive You can also get Superthrive through the hydroponics store "Worm's Way" which has a website at www.wormsway.com. You can check there to see if their Massachusetts store is anywhere naerby, or just get a catalogue and order it mail-order. Like everyone else, I've not done any real scientific tests, but I feel that it's helped my Nepenthes grow healthier. A couple of them were not doing so well until I started regular foliar spraying of a weak Superthrive mixture and they have since responded with new basal shoots and lots of new growth. Of course, it may entirely just be that they finally got acclimatized to their terrarium. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:08:37 +0000 Subject: Re: SLACK'S BOOKS On 14 Feb 98 at 17:02, AL850R wrote: > I have both books written by Slack and published in 1979, 1986. I > bought these at the library for $10.00 each. I don't see why they > are priced so high? > I'd call $10.00 for one of his great books _very_ cheap considering how many people are trying to get a copy. Both books are great and many people certainly would like to pay much more to get one of them. The German translation of his first book was priced more than DM 100,- (more than $50) originaly and this certainly was not too expensive. Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Phone: +49-621-705471 / +49-621-7152027 Fax: +49-621-7152028 E-Mail: andreas@wistuba.com ################### From: "Paul V. McCullough" Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:24:10 -0500 Subject: Plants waking up! My sundews, which have been sleeping in the Klima-gro for the past six months, have begun to grow again! The most robust is my drosera intermedia while my drosera rotundifolia has been a little less so. The drosera capillaris and drosera adelae continued to grow right through winter. Drosera adelae has in fact marched across the "plains" of my now dead pings (sigh...) and I've actually had to weed them out. (In fact it was during such a weeding that I discovered that the intermedia had resumed growing! One of the adelaes had leaves long enough to cover new growth on the intermedia...) Back a few months ago, I reported here that there were some unusual drosera growing beneath other adelae plants... at this point the tiny plants looked like branching peltata, but once the over growing adelaes were removed, the tiny plants ceased this growth behavior and began to grow in a rosette pattern. They have spathulate leaves rather then lance-shaped leaves like adelae. Is it possible that these are baby adelaes (from seed)? If so, that fountain of flowers last summer actually did produce seed- although, I could never find any. These aren't at all like the adelae plantlets, which sprout all over the place and go through some short lived trap shape mutations until settling into the standard adelae leaf shape (And they do this very quickly). On the other hand, the traps sort of share characteristics with adelae- strong central vein, color, etc. I'll try to get some photos (I'll need to dig out some macro lenses for this) and let the list know when they're posted. Cheers, Paul PS- My Venus Flytraps seem to be resuming normal growth again, too. -- Paul V. McCullough "3D Animation World" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull "CP Page" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull/pics/cp/carniv.htm ################### From: PTemple001@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 09:17:32 EST Subject: Not another field trip! And so my long silence breaks. Since mid-last year I have hardly used email and have many CP Digests (over 100) yet to read. My friends have been granted a wonderful break from my incessant electronic chatter but some have also suffered from a lack of response! Apologies those who found the silence depressing rather than satisfying!!! And so I'm off to the Dominican Republic again. This time for 4 whole weeks. And yes, there is always the hope that I'll visit exciting CP locations. But the honest truth is different. For those who followed my earlier episodes of trekking in the tropics, you know that I met a delightful young lady called Sol. Well, we shall be married in two weeks time, so the CP hobby really did blossom!!! A true story of beauty and the beast, but alas, unlike in the fairy tale, the kisses do not appear to allow me to revert to my naturally hansome form so I remain trapped in this body of a beast. Still, I will keep trying!!! (There is no truth whatsoever in the rumour that I just bought the top of the range Sony digital videocam to photograph P. casabitoana in habitat. Obviously it was entirely essential that I buy this to record the wedding!!!) So, thanks to all of you who showed any interest in my reports on Cuba and the Dominican Republic. Thanks to, to the many friends I've made via this internet conference, and their support and patience. I hope very much to meet some of you (old friends, new friends, silent friends that emigrated to the USA [hint! hint!], yet to be friends) at the CP Conference in Germany and to thereafter rejoin this conference as a slightly more active member. Best regards Paul ################### From: Chris Teichreb Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:30:55 -0800 (PST) Subject: Looking for Cathy ? Hi all, Apologies for putting this on the list. Would the Cathy who gave out Nepenthes madagascarensis (sp?) seed a few months back please contact me. I have some interesting news about the seed! Again, apologies to the list and to Cathy for forgetting your name! Happy growing, Chris ********************************** Chris Teichreb Department of Biological Sciences Simon Fraser University Burnaby, B.C. cjt@sfu.ca ********************************** ################### From: Stefan.Sehnbruch@t-online.de (Stefan Sehnbruch) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 23:26:24 +0100 Subject: Drosera adelae flowering Hi everyone, I think I need some help about my Drosera adelae. It is flowering and I want to collect seed from it. I never had problems about that with my other Droseras (capensis, binata, aliciae). The problem is, that the flowers have dried yet, but the ovary does not enlarge, as it is usual on D.capensis or D.binata, so I am not sure if the plants will develop any seed. Do I have to pollinate it manually or does it need cross pollination between two plants? I usually do not pollinate my other Droseras manually. Thanks in advance -- Stefan Sehnbruch Gelsenkirchen, Germany --- Experience is quite useful, --- normally you have it a short time after you needed it ! ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 19:12:58 -0500 Subject: D. adelae Paul McCullough wrote: Drosera adelae has in fact marched across the "plains" of my now dead pings (sigh...) and I've actually had to weed them out. You too, huh?!! My adelae's regularly grow out of the drainholes in the bottom of my pots. They are more weedy than, dare I say, D. capensis. Back a few months ago, I reported here that there were some unusual drosera growing beneath other adelae plants... at this point the tiny plants looked like branching peltata, but once the over growing adelaes were removed, the tiny plants ceased this growth behavior and began to grow in a rosette pattern. They have spathulate leaves rather then lance-shaped leaves like adelae. Is it possible that these are baby adelaes (from seed)? If so, that fountain of flowers last summer These are more D. adelae! The plantlets sprouting from the underground roots can look like a variety of drosera until they get larger. I find that if you want alot of this plant just take a nice big portion of the parent root and pot it up in loose sphagnum, just below the surface. If they are kept in high humidity conditions with moderate temps you can expect a jungle within a couple months! Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: "Fernando Olmos" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:38:21 +1100 Subject: Can someone take me off this list please? As per above. Thank you in advance. I lost my instructions on how to do it myself. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:25:08 Subject: Re: Hanrahan's hybrid Dear Peter, > Hopefully further good news about S. x 'lamentations', S. purpurea 'red > ruffles' and other of our cultivars will follow. The best news possible for these creatures would be that their names were going to be established (published with a description and further details and *registered* with the ICPS) subito! Has anyone thought about this already? Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 09:09:39 Subject: cultivars Dear Peter, > Hopefully further good news about S. x 'lamentations', S. purpurea > 'red ruffles' and other of our cultivars will follow. The best news possible for these creatures would be that their names were going to be established (published with a description and further details and *registered* with the ICPS) subito! Has anyone thought about this already? Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Jens Rotthauwe" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:01:42 +0100 Subject: Tissue Culture Hello TC - experts ! I have managed to establish some cp (D.regia, D.petiolaris, D.falconeri, Da.californica ...) from seeds in vitro. They are doing fine but so far I have failed to multiply them. I have tried cuttings but they always died after a while. If you have any advice or know some tricks please let me know. Thanks a lot for your help ! Kind regards Jens _____________ ______________________ Jens Rotthauwe Tel.: 0228 /253216 Im Jagdfeld 61 Email: uzsb09@uni-bonn.de 53125 Bonn GERMANY ################### From: "Bernadette Png" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:44:26 +0800 Subject: My VFT Hi, my VFT is really disappointing. Last night I caught one of those flying ants or something like that, and put it on my VFT pot. The ant just made a fun tour round the triggers and the played with the soil etc. None of the trigger managed to catch the ant! And it was such a big one at that! Do u think that VFTs can take partial dead insects instaed of live ones? Is it ok to put that insect INTO the triggers, and then trigger the closing action? -Bernie parrotzfreak@usa.net Singapore ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 13:10:38 +0100 Subject: protecting seeds for mailing I have send a quite large number of CP seeds over the last years to people all over the world. Now recently I received two messages from people whose seeds were crushed during transport, one from Germany another from the USA. The strange thing is that in both cases it happened with S. purpurea seeds. In one case the seeds were send together with Drosophyllum lusitanicum seeds. Drosophyllum seeds are a lot bigger than Sarracenia seeds, but they were OK. Drosophyllum seeds are hard as rock, I thought they would protect the smaller S. seeds, keeping the rollers from touching them. Are the rollers used in certain post companies more muscled than in other ones ? Is this just a coincidence or should I consider changing the way I protect seeds ? This is the way I package seeds : - put seeds in a little plastic bag, including a paper label, heat seal the plastic bag (writing on plastic seed bags at the outside is a bad idea, all too often it is faded away when arriving) - glue bags on a sheet of thin bubble plastic (not the kind with two plastic layers with nice round airbags in between) about twice as big as the envelope, the glue is to keep them from sliding all to one side, glue opposite sides of bubble plastic together so the result fits in the envelope. I have received seeds in good health packaged between paper handkerchiefs instead of bubble plastic (hi Jens). Any other suggestions on protecting seeds ? Kind regards Wim ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:14:39 +0100 Subject: Harmful prey? Hi CPers! I wonder if I can feed wood lice (aka sow- or pill-bugs) to my CP (esp. Dionaea and Cephalotus). I know these animals are no insects but land isopods (Crustacea) -- little ugly land lobsters :-) I found some flytrap animation (venus.mov) on somebody's homepage which shows a Dionaea trap a wood louse. Are they (and cephs) able to digest them and can they be any harm? What about certain poisonous critters like house spiders and ants. Can their poison/acid hurt the plants? What about lady-bugs (aka lady-birds) and their yellow secretion? Bye, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ..................................................... Inst. f. Medizinische Informatik und Statistik (IMIS) Klinikum der Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel mail : IMIS, Brunswiker Str. 10, 24105 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 597-3173 --- fax: (+49 431) 597-3193 >>>>>> http://www.uni-kiel.de:8080/medinfo/ <<<<<<< ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:22:22 +0100 Subject: Intestinal flora of Heliamphora Hi! I have a nice H. minor and would like to know if it is able to "eat" in culture. As it produces no digestive liquid but gets help from bacteria living in the rain-water in it's pitchers I wonder if and how these bacteria get into my plant. I fill the pitchers with osmose water as that's all I have. Bye, Stefan. -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ..................................................... Inst. f. Medizinische Informatik und Statistik (IMIS) Klinikum der Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel mail : IMIS, Brunswiker Str. 10, 24105 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 597-3173 --- fax: (+49 431) 597-3193 >>>>>> http://www.uni-kiel.de:8080/medinfo/ <<<<<<< ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 16 Feb 1998 13:29:46 Z Subject: On Tour Dear all, due to some caper I'm involved with at an ice cream factory in St Dizier France, I will have very limited E-mail access between now and the end of April. None the less I will get to read all E-mail sent to me over this time and will also respond when I have the opportunity - though this may take some time. Regards Loyd ################### From: wOb Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 17:05:09 +0100 Subject: RE: My VFT Bernadette Png[SMTP:hoglet@cyberway.com.sg] wrote: > Hi, my VFT is really disappointing. Last night I caught one of those flying [stuff deleted] > to put that insect INTO the triggers, and then trigger the closing action? Hello from France :) I have not a great experience in growing VFT (or any CP...) but I think you should only leave you VFT alone in a sunny wet place. No feeding, no touching, no anything but water and sun. if you need company, ya should get a dog, not a VFT as it won't bring the piece of wood back.... Please do not take offense of what I said, I could not resist :) More seriously, I got a pair of VFT growing along with Sarrs and Drosera, I never feed them and they seem to be good hunters (when in full sun). Happy growing to all -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyril 'wOb' Fournillon Drop me a message: cyril.fournillon@inforoute.cgs.fr wOb@mail.dotcom.fr wOb@chez.com Visit my HomePage: http://www.inforoute.cgs.fr/fournill [Voice: +33 1 42 21 78 03] [Fax: +33 1 42 21 76 88] [ICQ: 1397712] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! I'm a .signature virus (mutant version), copy me to your .signature file to join in. ################### From: jan.flisek.fei@vsb.cz Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 18:49:16 +0100 Subject: Warning against incorrect action Dear CP list, I would like to warn for incorrect action of Mr. Jakub Sladecek (Jakub Sladecek, Folia, Kafkova 35, 16000 Praha 6; or U zelezne lavky 6, 11800 Praha 1, Czech Republic, e. mails: sladecek@mbox.vol.cz, jak0001@hotmail.com) In April 1997 we made an agreement about CP exchange. Though I sent my CP to Mr. Jakub Sladecek during May 1997. (He confirmed to me their taking over and good condition.) I din't get any promised CP from Mr.Jakub Sladecek till today. He have been reacht on my e. mails and he neither for telephon message. Though be answered to another people imediately. Later on have shown that I am not the only one person who swallow the bait to Mr. Jakub Sladecek and therefore recommand you don't send him any CP, TC, seeds and money before without getting your promised items from him or you will be in the some situation like me and you swallow the bait of swindler. And you will be very disappointed. I am sorry this is only way how to defend against diserious people. This is good meaning advance and I wish you the best in other to never happened something similar like me. I am very sorry that I have to write this bad message. I would like to write better about CP. Jan ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:04:38 PST Subject: Re: Harmful prey? > >What about certain poisonous critters like house spiders and ants. >Can their poison/acid hurt the plants? What about lady-bugs (aka >lady-birds) and their yellow secretion? > Hello Stefan, I have found that with my VFT if an ant takes too long to digest the trap will deteriorate where the ants abdomen is located. This sometimes happens with large Grandaddy Longlegs as well. ______________________________________________ Justin T. Arthur | | | 0 0 | | & | Chapel Hill, NC 27514 | \___/ | United States Of America --------- ______________________________________________ ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 10:14:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Derek's Utricularia >Do only a few species of Utrics produce cleistogamous flowers, or is it a >more or less common trait in the Genus? I'm trying to ID a Utric that >doesn't appear to match any of the possible species it could be. (It is a >Florida, USA native) It sent up an inflorescence a couple of weeks ago, Hey Derek, Yes, only a few species of Utrics produce cleistogamous flowers. Your Florida plant is probably either U. subulata (perfectly round cleistogamous flowers) or U. juncea (usually more elongated cleistogamous flowers). If you want to send me a few pressed or live plants I could verify your ID for you. For those uncertain about this "cleistogamous" term, it refers to a certain type of modified flower. Instead of normal flowers (which are called chasmogamous), the plant may produce flowers which never open---they never progress beyond a bud. Still, they self fertilize and produce seed. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: Terry Boomer Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 15:19:04 -0800 Subject: Introduction My name is Margaret Boomer. I have been growing CP's for about 4 years. I started with orchids and kept killing Disas. They are a stream growning orchid from South Africa. After I bought a mixed pot of CP"s from California Carnivores I was told if I could grow CP's I could growth Disas. This is true for me. I have since joined the Bay Area Carnivorous Plant Society (BACPS) that meets in the San Francisco area. I am also looking for anybody who grows in Spain. I will be going there in March and would like to visit a grower. Thanks, Margaret Boomer ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:40:07 GMT Subject: Re: Harmful prey? On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 05:22:44 -0800, you wrote: >Hi CPers! > >I wonder if I can feed wood lice (aka sow- or pill-bugs) to my CP=20 >(esp. Dionaea and Cephalotus). I know these animals are no insects=20 >but land isopods (Crustacea) -- little ugly land lobsters :-)=20 > >I found some flytrap animation (venus.mov) on somebody's homepage >which shows a Dionaea trap a wood louse. Are they (and cephs)=20 >able to digest them and can they be any harm? > >What about certain poisonous critters like house spiders and ants. >Can their poison/acid hurt the plants? What about lady-bugs (aka >lady-birds) and their yellow secretion? > > >Bye, Stefan. Stefan, Being in the northern U.S. pill-bugs are numerous and even in the dead of winter I've been able to find many under rocks, logs, and debris in my yard... I have been feeding my Dionaea these for about 2 months without problems... It's actually been quite nice to use the semi-frozen bugs because they don't move as fast but still trigger the traps effectively... The traps digest them perfectly fine and all that's left is the chinton shell... I would say they would be fine for you also but be sure they are not contaminated by pollutants as these little critters seem pretty at ease near pollutants... I've fed my Dionaea's house spiders at times but fear of the above mentioned pollutants keeps me digging pill-bugs! ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: "Michael Reardon" Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 11:36:22 +1000 Subject: Re: Harmful prey? Hi Stefan, > I wonder if I can feed wood lice (aka sow- or pill-bugs) to my CP > (esp. Dionaea and Cephalotus). I know these animals are no insects > but land isopods (Crustacea) -- little ugly land lobsters :-) > I found some flytrap animation (venus.mov) on somebody's homepage > which shows a Dionaea trap a wood louse. Are they (and cephs) able > to digest them and can they be any harm? I don't know about Lady Bugs but I kept a VFT alive for years feeding it almost entirely on Wood Louse - it thrived on them. >What about certain poisonous critters like house spiders and ants. >Can their poison/acid hurt the plants? What about lady-bugs (aka >lady-birds) and their yellow secretion? Small spiders seemed to be digested OK. Ants were not so well received. I guess they're too acidic since the traps tended to rot away. Cheers Michael ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 20:06 EST Subject: Re: Re: Hanrahan's hybrid > > Hopefully further good news about S. x 'lamentations', S. purpurea 'red > > ruffles' and other of our cultivars will follow. > > The best news possible for these creatures would be that their names > were going to be established (published with a description and further > details and *registered* with the ICPS) subito! Has anyone thought > about this already? Dear Jan, Perhap's it would benefit the CP community if a guide-line for naming species and cultivars as an article or supplament was included in CPN. If I were not on this digest, I would not know about the naming of plants. Why would a lay person who grows plants understand the rules *and understand their importance** to naming plants? It's not standard education in the US. While growers on this list this should know better, especially long time members, where else are other ICPS members going to get this infomation, besides CPN? If it's *not* a lack of knowledge, then the situation of undocumented cultivars strikes me as laziness. Dave Evans ################### From: j sullivan Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 20:36:18 -0800 Subject: CPs in Amsterdam During a recent vacation trip to Amsterdam I had the opportunity to observe CPs in several different locales: 1. Hortus Botanicus - The otherwise excellent display inside the botanical garden was marred by the nearly complete lack of CPs inside the special enclosure built for them in a climate-controlled chamber. 2. Local shop near 300 on Herrengracht canal - this corner store had several healthy-looking "Sarracenia hybrid" pitchers for sale in 5" plastic pots. 3. Bloemenmarket - the flower sellers on the Singel canal offered just about everything, including CPs. Pitcher plants labeled "Venus schoen" were seen in one shop (aboard a floating barge). These were not VFTs. 4. I purchased a book in Amsterdam entitled "Plants and Flowers of Malaysia." There are excellent photos of Utricularia aurea, Nepenthes bicalcarata (Two-spurred pitcher plant), and 7 other species of Nepenthes. The shot of N. macfarlanei is interesting in presenting the habit of 2 apparently pigment-free pitchers (both chlorophyll and anthocyanin). The author is Ivan Polunin. Times Editions, Singapore, 1992 reprint date. Cost about $25. ISBN 981-204-021-8. Jack ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:14:45 -0500 Subject: Re:N. merrilliana cultivation Trent here in the office at R.B.'s. I have brought up this topic before, in less direct fashion, so here it is: anybody having success with Nepenthes merrilliana? I have gained the following information concerning its natural habitat via site photos or direct responses from some of you out there who have had the opportunity to see this species growing in its natural habitat. 1. N merrilliana grows on sloped land (ie. hillsides) implying rapid drainage. 2. N merrilliana grows in a reddish, iron rich soil, probably lateritic in composition. 3. very high rainfall in its natural habitat (like most Nepenthes) $. A true lowlander. (I get red spotting on the leaves if the temperature drops below 55 dgrees F., just like rafflesiana and bicalcarata) So far, I have met its needs in temperature, sunlight, water/humidity., but I don't think it likes traditional Nepenthes soil (you Nep growers know what I mean- perlite, peat, fir bark ). Anybody out there in CP land have any ideas or experiences to relate? Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:02:39 -0500 Subject: Slack's Book Who'd have thought a CP book would become such a collector's item? And I though a Wayne Gretzky Rookie card or Diana stamps were a good investment!!! ;-) Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:09:18 -0500 Subject: Speaking of TC Hello List, Any news on the green purpurea venosa var burkii plant? I understood that this plant was in tissue culture and was going to be released soon? Speaking of green (anthocyanin free) plants. Does anyone have a green Sarracenia minor for sale or trade? Also, anyone have any knowledge of any green plants other than below? S. rubra jonesii S. rubra gulfensis (leuco x gulfensis natural hybrid) S. purpurea f. heterophylla S. purpurea venosa var burkii S. psittacina S. leucophylla S. minor Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome ################### From: lasseter@chemvx.chem.tamu.edu (Benjamin Lasseter) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:14:53 -0600 Subject: Re: Intestinal flora of Heliamphora > >I have a nice H. minor and would like to know if it is able to >"eat" in culture. As it produces no digestive liquid but gets >help from bacteria living in the rain-water in it's pitchers I >wonder if and how these bacteria get into my plant. I fill the >pitchers with osmose water as that's all I have. > >Bye, Stefan. > > >-- >Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf >..................................................... >Inst. f. Medizinische Informatik und Statistik (IMIS) >Klinikum der Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel >mail : IMIS, Brunswiker Str. 10, 24105 Kiel, GERMANY >phone: (+49 431) 597-3173 --- fax: (+49 431) 597-3193 >>>>>>> http://www.uni-kiel.de:8080/medinfo/ <<<<<<< Dear Stefan, I like the joke about referring to H. minor's "intestines". Regarding these bacteria, they live in symbiosis with the plant. On the average, there are about 100,000 per square inch of surface area inside the trap. You could not possibly get rid of them without killing the plant first, and even then I am not entirely sure the bacteria would go. Filling the pitchers with distilled water certainly couldn't do it, nor should you particularly desire to try. After all, they do help the plants thrive! Benjamin F. Lasseter ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 22:47 EST Subject: Re: Speaking of TC Hello Carl! > Speaking of green (anthocyanin free) plants. Does anyone have a green > Sarracenia minor for sale or trade? Also, anyone have any knowledge of any > green plants other than below? Yes, I have a green N.albomarginata. BTW, now that I have been keeping it drier, it has been growing much faster and is producing traps on a more regular schedule than before. The pitchers on this species last for an amazingly long time! I haven't checked to see if it's just green (no normal red coloration, but not anthocyanin-free) or all-green (antho- free). I'm not sure if the 'poke a hole in the pitcher/leaf' test for Sarracenia will give reliable data in Nepenthes.... Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 16 Feb 98 23:01 EST Subject: Re: Re: Intestinal flora of Heliamphora Hi Benjamim, > >I have a nice H. minor and would like to know if it is able to > >"eat" in culture. As it produces no digestive liquid but gets > >help from bacteria living in the rain-water in it's pitchers I > >wonder if and how these bacteria get into my plant. I fill the > >pitchers with osmose water as that's all I have. > > You could not possibly get rid of them without killing the plant > first, and even then I am not entirely sure the bacteria would go. > Filling the pitchers with distilled water certainly couldn't do it, > nor should you particularly desire to try. After all, they do help the > plants thrive! I think he was asking how the pitchers are inoculated with the symbiotic bacteria. I'm writing because I'd like to know also. Where do TC plants get these bacteria from? Are these bacteria only found on the tepuis inside the plants or are they widespread and happen to fall into a pitcher and then become symbiotes? Dave Evans ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:11:55 Subject: naming of plants Dear Dave, > Perhap's it would benefit the CP community if a guide-line > for naming species and cultivars as an article or supplament was > included in CPN. Incidentally, there will be such an article in the March 98 issue of CPN (there was such a text in CPN as early as 1979, already). But anyway, everyone breeding plants for the purpose of distribution should be aware of the ICNCP just like everyone who drives a car must know the (few and intellegible) rules of traffic regulation. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Leigh.Perkins@sset.com Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 14:20:02 -0800 Subject: Seeds Hi all I have a small quantity of S Purpurea seeds (50 ish) and D Capensis seeds (1000), and still need some S Flava seeds - if anyone would like to do a swap, please contact me directly. Happy growing for the year ahead! Leigh leigh.perkins@sset.com ################### From: David Konerding Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 08:38:05 -0800 Subject: "wimpy" leaves on my flytrap Dear CP aficionados: I have recently purchased a venus flytrap. After reading the care FAQ, I have done basically what is necessary to have a healthy VF. I'm using reverse osmosis water. I've fed it a few times and it seems to like flies, potato bugs, and cockroaches. The leaves don't have any "rigor"; they all basically hang down over the edges of the pot. Two new leaves have grown in the 3-4 weeks that I've had the plant, and they are beginning to form the trap (it's fascinating to watch the traps grow, by the way). However, these leaves also seem to lack rigor . Does anybody have any advices? It doesn't seem to be harmful to have the leaves hanging down, although it's aesthetically not as pleasing, the leaves may dip into the standing water below the pot, and they seem less able to attract flies on their own this way. Anybody have any suggestions on how to increase the rigor of the leaves? Dave ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Email: dek@cgl.ucsf.edu David Konerding WWW: http://picasso.ucsf.edu/~dek ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ################### From: Paul Burkhardt Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 10:52:27 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: My VFT Hi Bernadette, > trigger managed to catch the ant! And it was such a big one at that! Do u > think that VFTs can take partial dead insects instaed of live ones? Is it ok > to put that insect INTO the triggers, and then trigger the closing action? Oh, yes, the vft will take dead insects. You'll have to trigger the trap, but the key is, after the trap has closed, you will need to gently squeeze the trap a few times with your fingers. This is supposed to simulate a struggling insect, otherwise, the stimulus for digestion doesn't occur, and the trap will reopen. Becareful about the size of the insect. If it is too large, most likely the trap will rot during the digestion period. Paul Burkhardt ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 12:00:52 -0500 Subject: RE: Harmful prey? > What about certain poisonous critters like house > spiders and ants. > Can their poison/acid hurt the plants? My flytraps eat a lot of Daddy Longlegs spiders. Often the trap turns black afterwards, but I can't tell whether this is the result of an overly large meal, ordinary trap death, or some chemical inside the spider. > What about > lady-bugs (aka lady-birds) and their yellow > secretion? I've never seen a flytrap eat a ladybug, but I know that the Sarracenia flava in the Green Swamp in North Carolina catch ladybugs in droves and don't seem to suffer for doing so. Good growing, Phil URL du jour: http://birding.miningco.com ################### From: "GayBoy" <011114@hillstrath.on.ca> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 15:29:37 -0400 Subject: VFT feeding Dear list, I have seen some questions concerning feeding VFT. I feed my VFT with ants, spiders, and flies. I often find that it is necessary to remove the wings and legs off of flies and ants and then triggering the traps with a tooth pick. good luck, adwait kulkarni P.S. make sure that the insect is small compared to the trap as trap rot may result from large prey. ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:19:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Tissue Culture > Hello TC - experts ! > I have managed to establish some cp (D.regia, D.petiolaris, D.falconeri, > Da.californica ...) from seeds in vitro. They are doing fine but so far I > have failed > to multiply them. I have tried cuttings but they always died after a while. > If you have any advice or know some tricks please let me know. > Thanks a lot for your help ! > Kind regards > Jens I don't have any trouble multiplying D.regia if using whole leaves plucked from the in vitro plantlets and recultured - these will bud up at the base and form new plantlets which can be plucked apart, etc. Plucking whole leaves off seems more succesful than cutting them, though sometimes leaf tips or sections will work as well, so you could try cutting leaves in half. I think cutting them damages the tissue more and causes it to produce harmful phenols, as the medium around the cut surface often discolours and the cut edge turns black - the main techniques that can help reduce the damage are any of these: - keep flasks in dark for first 72 hours (to limit phenol production) - add 2-5g/L activated charcoal to the medium (to absorb phenols - you can get this from tropical fish shops) - reculture onto fresh medium after 72 hours (to replace contaminated medium) It is certainly not a sp. that seems as amenable as many of the weedier S.African/Australian spp. to fine shredding onto the medium, but not difficult. Also new plantlets will often emerge spontaneously from the roots if you reculture whole plants in fresh medium after letting them deplete the original for 12 weeks+ (prompts rooting.) This seems irrespective of which medium they're in (I've tried MS, Knudsons, Vacin & Went.) I haven't had much luck with petiolaris - I don't like working with seeds (fiddly and I always seem to overdo the bleach), and on the few occasions I've managed to sterilise leaf tissue, it has browned and died in a few days. I guess it doesn't like the bleach :( Ooh - D.falconeri - I'm envious :)... Darlingtonia - I have to confess I've never had to sterilise (found a vesutor flasked plant in the local garden centre a couple of years ago, and worked from that :) It seems quite prolific once it gets going - the clumps can be pulled apart with tweezers, but I don't know how long it takes to get going from seed. It never seems to make bigger (adult) pitchers, but you can make many one-year-old-seedling-look-a-likes quite quckly. It needs to be starved in depleted medium for couple of months to get it to root I find, but you don't need many roots to transplant to soil safely. Hope this helps - happy cloning, Peter. +++ Peter Cole, 17 Wimmerfield Cr.,Killay,SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK +++ mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk - http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ ++++ Carnivorous Plants, seeds and tissue culture kits for sale ++++ ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 20:43 EST Subject: Re: Re:N. merrilliana cultivation > From: Richard Brown > > Anybody out there in CP land have any ideas or experiences to relate? I don't grow it, but you could try the same mix, but with a higher % of sand. Could also add some iron chelate, but don't over do it. Dave Evans ################### From: Larry Mellichamp Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 21:45:25 -0600 Subject: Re:cv registration Perhap's it would benefit the CP community if a guide-line > for naming species and cultivars as an article or supplament was > included in CPN. In CPN Vol. 16, June 1987, page 37, [good reason to acquire back issues!!!] was published guidelines for publication and registration of cultivars. In that issue I (and Rob Gardner) registered5 new cultivars of Sarracenia, perhaps the first Sarracenia cultivars to be registered. Those write-ups could serve as guidelines. Various cultivars of CP's were registered in subsequent issues of CPN. One of the problems with all the hybrids and cultivars in Nepenthes is that cultivars names were never registered, and so no=one really knows what some of them are; and of course many are errors, whre the grower may have misidentified the parents, or mis-identified the hybrids, and then various names have gotten out into the "trade." I am working on acquiring a copy of the latest code of cultivated plants to see what rules have changed (if any) since 1969, and will prepare something for CPN in the near future. I believe I am also to register some new cultivars in the June issue. My goal is NOT to release any cultivars that have not been registered. That should be everyone's goal. Unfortunately, a few cv's are already out (Dixie Lace and Ladies-in-waiting), but my goal was to register them very soon anyway. There are very firm rules about regiatering, and CPN is (or officially will be) the official registration authority (place of registration) for all CP's worldwide. By the way, in response to other comments on green plants, I have a Sarracenia purpurea venosa - normal red pitchers but with pure yellow flowers!!! That is at least unusual, and perhap the first one found in the wild. I am growing selfed seeds now to see how they come true. Larry Mellichamp Biology Dept. UNC Charlotte Charlotte, NC 28223 phone (704) 547-4055 Fax (704) 547-3128 E-Mail FBI00TLM@email.UNCC.EDU ################### From: dave evans Date: Tue, 17 Feb 98 21:01 EST Subject: Re: Re: Propagation of Mexician PINGS Dear Marco, > Though i wasn't successful to get seeds at all. Does anyone know how > to pollinate these plants, at least the "everyday" moranensis, > esseriana and gypsicola ? I'm not sure if they are all self-fertile or not, but of the few Mexican species I've selfed did set seed. Look inside the flower, you should see a tiny hole and below that is a flap. Under the flap is the pollen. A tooth pick can be used to gently remove some pollen from under the flap and then the pollen needs to be placed into or very near the hole. Some flowers are large enough to see all the details, others are too small and a hand lens might help. > Also i would be pleasant to know if anyone has experience in growing > plants of the kind of primuliflora, my young plants grow next to my > Nepenthes, but as soon as they have flowered the first time they rot. Well, P.primuliflora might do well with Nepenthes that like their soils very wet, wet enough for Sphagnum moss to grow. P.primuliflora can be easily grown in a wide pot with a layer of peat:sand (1:1) topped with living Sphagnum moss. I've have seen these plants in the wild and can tell you that they grow very well in Sphagnum moss as some plants were approaching six inches wide. I'm unaware of any other way to grow this plant successfully besides TC. Maybe sand:peat at 6-8:1 would also work... Dave Evans ################### From: lasseter@chemvx.chem.tamu.edu (Benjamin Lasseter) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 00:11:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Intestinal Flora of H. Minor >> >I have a nice H. minor and would like to know if it is able to >> >"eat" in culture. As it produces no digestive liquid but gets >> >help from bacteria living in the rain-water in it's pitchers I >> >wonder if and how these bacteria get into my plant. I fill the >> >pitchers with osmose water as that's all I have. >> >> You could not possibly get rid of them without killing the plant >> first, and even then I am not entirely sure the bacteria would go. >> Filling the pitchers with distilled water certainly couldn't do it, >> nor should you particularly desire to try. After all, they do help the >> plants thrive! > >I think he was asking how the pitchers are inoculated with the >symbiotic bacteria. I'm writing because I'd like to know also. >Where do TC plants get these bacteria from? Are these bacteria >only found on the tepuis inside the plants or are they widespread >and happen to fall into a pitcher and then become symbiotes? > > >Dave Evans Thank you, Dave. I did misunderstand the question. I am going to go out on a limb here to speculate as to the answer. I am not sure if anyone is really sure about how the bacteria get there. I am going to draw a comparison to H. tatei Gleason, a cousin of H. Minor, but which does produce its own digestive enzymes. Both have the ability to absorb nutrients, when they have been broken down. Both create a number of fascinating chemical signals, which attract insects. Both trap and kill their prey. Genetically, they are not very disparate, though there is no complete genome for either one (It is, by the way, an enormous project.) It is quite likely that both actually get their digestive enzymes from bacteria. That would not be an unheard-of occurrence. H. tatei always has those enzymes available, and H. Minor needs to build up a significant bacterial culture inside its pitcher before it can digest anything... Bacteria regularly live inside the cells of eukaryotes (e.g. plants), to the great benefit of both parties. If a bacteria living inside H. tatei started secreting the digestive enzymes, and the plant cell could in turn transport those enzymes into the fluid of its pitcher, then the plant cell itself would seem to be secreting the enzyme. Tissue cultures from such cells would always produce clones which would secrete the enzyme, because the bacteria would always be there. You could not get rid of the bacteria without killing the plant cell first. And the bacteria would multiply and divide along with the cells just as chloroplasts do. What about H. Minor? I read once that the bacteria with pitcher plants live on the surface of the cells inside the trap. Is that true? I never heard it confirmed. But it makes very good sense. Nor would it be the only case in existence. The same strain (or a close cousin) which lives inside the cells of H. tatei would live on the surface of the trap, and would flourish as soon as water got into the trap. A reasonable explanation, but I do not know if it is the correct one. ***---***---*** A quick and dirty test to find out if you have the digestive bacteria in your H. minor: purchase a can of Campbell's clear beef broth. Add to one 12 oz can a package of Jello-brand gelatin (any flavor, though flavorless is the closest to laboratory conditions). Make sure the gelatin gets dissolved. Dump the mixture into a shallow glass pan, so that you have a layer 1/4" to 1/2" thick. Cover the top with tin foil. Cook in your oven for 30-45 minutes at 450 degrees Fahrenheit. Then remove it from the oven and let the gelatin/beef mixture cool. Do not remove the cover. It should form a slightly tougher mixture than your normal Jello. If not, back to the drawing board. Get an eye dropper on hand. Get two H. Minor at hand: one in which you know the digestive bacteria are present, and one about which you are not sure. Set up an open flame (A normal candle should suffice. It worked for Pasteur...) Pass the eye dropper through the flame once or twice. It doesn't take much heat to sterilize it. Take a few drops from the known H. Minor and put it onto the surface of the gelatin at one end of the pan, spread it around in a to about 4" away with the tip of the dropper. Then close the lid again and sterilize the eye dropper as before. Take a few drops from your unknown H. Minor and put it on the surface of the gelatin (AT THE OTHER END OF THE PAN), spreading it around as before. Examine the colonies that grow. If they tend to be the same shape and size, they are probably the same species. Any molecular biologist reading this will find some very big flaws in terms of generating PUBLISHABLE data, but the experiment is pretty sound. If you were to do the experiment with several tissue culture H. Minors, with the tissue taken from different parts of the plant, and if you then found the same type of bacteria growing, it might be evidence that the needed bacteria live in symbiosis on the surface of these cells EVERYWHERE on the plant. No one knows that, yet. And it would be interesting to find out. Also it might start a craze of amateur biochemistry as popular and useful as the amateur astronomy one! ***---***---*** Like I said at first, I am only making an educated guess as to the bacterial relationships among heliamphora. If anyone knows better, or is more caught up in this particular field of literature, I should be pleased with a list of which articles I need to read. Sincerely, Benjamin F. Lasseter ################### From: Sundew1802@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 01:24:28 EST Subject: aquatic affixed utric germination Greetings, my question is directed to the Utric buffs. I recently recieved some seed for several affixed aquatic species, and Im wondering about the proper germination protocol for them. I presume that I follow the normal method but as they germinate i increase the water level to the proper depth. Should I keep the medium wetter(soggy) than what is normal for terrestrial species until germination? I am looking for U humboldtii if anyone has extra. Cheers, Bob ################### From: "Gilles LARDY" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:20:53 +0800 Subject: Personnal message to Lee GENTRY Hi Lee, Your N. mirabilis seeds have been sent today. Please advise me once you receive them. Cheers Gilles LARDY ------------------------------------------------------- Contact me at fytdw@hkabc.net or byblis@hotmail.com And check out my HK CP site on http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/1244/MainFrame.htm ################### From: "Niels.Asger.Nielsen" Date: 18 Feb 1998 09:30:56 +0100 Subject: Hanging flytraps Hi Dave >The leaves don't have any "rigor"; they all basically hang down over the = >edges >of the pot. Two new leaves have grown in the 3-4 weeks that I've had = the >plant, >and they are beginning to form the trap (it's fascinating to watch the = >traps grow, >by the way). However, these leaves also seem to lack rigor . The hanging traps could be the result of too little light, I think. = Towards the end of last season (oktober) the traps on my all red VFT's = also started to hang over the edge of the pot. Be patient until spring = and you'll see some rigorous traps. Niels Asger Nielsen, Denmark ################### From: "Stuart, Mark" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 98 17:35:00 PST Subject: Re Nepenthes merrilliana in cultivation Trent Meeks recently wrote: Trent here in the office at R.B.'s. I have brought up this topic before, in less direct fashion, so here it is: anybody having success with Nepenthes merrilliana? I have gained the following information concerning its natural habitat via site photos or direct responses from some of you out there who have had the opportunity to see this species growing in its natural habitat. 1. N merrilliana grows on sloped land (ie. hillsides) implying rapid drainage. 2. N merrilliana grows in a reddish, iron rich soil, probably lateritic in composition. 3. very high rainfall in its natural habitat (like most Nepenthes) $. A true lowlander. (I get red spotting on the leaves if the temperature drops below 55 dgrees F., just like rafflesiana and bicalcarata) So far, I have met its needs in temperature, sunlight, water/humidity., but I don't think it likes traditional Nepenthes soil (you Nep growers know what I mean- perlite, peat, fir bark ). Anybody out there in CP land have any ideas or experiences to relate? Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida I also have difficulty in growing this species. I agree with Trent, it loves the heat!!!. My plants were suffering from the cold despite minimum temperatures of 18C approx. 65F, and daytime air temperatures of 30C to 40C during Spring, Summer and Autumn and 25C to 30C during Winter. To help them along I placed the plants on my hot bed, located in my low land greenhouse. The hot bed is set at 35C. The heating panels are covered with 10 to 15 cm of perlite Pots are buried in the perlite. The depth is dependent on the temperature required. For example on the surface the temperature may be 20C halfway down, 25C and so on. (thermometers placed in the pots provide the best indicator of the temperature at a specific depth.) The pots of N merrilliana are placed to within 2 cm of the heating panels. This gives a temperature in the pot of 30C to 35C. To my surprise they started to grow and produce pitchers. Even more to my surprise the roots have grown out of the pots and invaded the pure perlite, in mass. I have also found that even with bottom heat the tops of the plants suffer from the cold (18C) especially in winter when the air temperature in my lowland greenhouse is at 15 to 18C for most of the night. The exposure to these temperatures for extended periods sets them back severely. Despite this limited success I find the species difficult to grow. It never seems to have the vigorous vegetative growth that other species produce, instead remaining in the rosette stage with relatively small leaves (20 cm long). Perhaps it will grow out of this stage, only time will tell. For what its worth I grow the plants in a mix of equal parts of peat, perlite and pine bark, with some vermiculite thrown in for good measure to increase the water holding capacity. The house is misted regularly every 30 minutes and there is some air movement from a fan. I would be interested in any other experiences in growing this species. Cheers Mark Stuart Perth, Western Australia ################### From: Alastair Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 04:44:16 -0500 Subject: Re: N.merilliana cultivation Although I do not grow the species, and therefore make no pretense at knowing which technique would best suit it, I would have thought that the= plant would be fairly happy in your average Nepenthes mix - I say this because I do grow N.truncata and a N.globamphora hybrid, both of these in= a pine bark/peat (3:1) mixture with great success. The relevance here is that these species are often found in the same localities as one another (eg. Mt Legaspi) so N.merilliana *may* tolerate the same sort of conditio= ns as the other two (disregarding the possibility of species specific intolerance etc etc!). Regards, Alastair. ################### From: Kate Collins Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:11:42 +0100 Subject: Harmful prey Hi - Concerning daddy longlegs which rot VFT traps... I've forgotten the name of the acid, but daddy longlegs (longlegses?) contain one of the most toxic substances of any arthropod. Luckily, their mouths are too small to take a chunk out of us (but I've heard that aphids object strongly to them). This acid will kill VFT trap cells, as will the formic acid in ants. /Kate Collins ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 07:41:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Harmful prey Kate Collins wrote: > Concerning daddy longlegs which rot VFT traps... > ...daddy longlegs... contain one of the most toxic substances > of any arthropod...This acid will kill VFT trap > cells, as will the formic acid in ants. I didn't know this. It catches my attention because my VFT's eat a lot of these spiders. For some reason the spiders crawl all over the plants at night. In the morning you see a lot of closed traps with spindly legs sticking out. I haven't paid attention to the longevity of the traps that have caught the spiders, mostly because there are plenty of traps on my VFT's and new ones replace the dying ones rather quickly. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:03:23 +0100 Subject: Re: Harmful prey Some kind of synopsis of "Harmful Prey?": I wrote: >> I wonder if I can feed wood lice (aka sow- or pill-bugs) to my CP >> (esp. Dionaea and Cephalotus). I know these animals are no insects >> but land isopods (Crustacea) -- little ugly land lobsters :-) >> [...] >> What about certain poisonous critters like house spiders and ants. >> Can their poison/acid hurt the plants? What about lady-bugs (aka >> lady-birds) and their yellow secretion? From: "Justin Arthur" (Message-ID: <19980216180438.28654.qmail@hotmail.com>) > I have found that with my VFT if an ant takes too long to digest > the trap will deteriorate where the ants abdomen is located. This > sometimes happens with large Grandaddy Longlegs as well. The latter should be caused by the oversized prey. As for ants: I received quite some answers that these can actually burn the traps of VFT. Maybe the ant thinks it is attacked and sprays it's acid while in pither plants it does not (it should be able to distinguish between beeing crushed and drowning) so it is not harmful to pitchers. Just an idea... ### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Message-ID: <34e8cd05.1942286@valunet.com> > Being in the northern U.S. pill-bugs are numerous and even in the > dead of winter I've been able to find many under rocks, logs, and > debris in my yard... Thats's why I wanted to use them - I don't find many insects now in winter. They are easy to find and to keep alive for some provisions. A box with smooth walls (they can't climb these) and some compost. They eat rotting plant/veggies. > The traps digest them perfectly fine and all that's left is the > chinton shell... Sounds good - I was curious because I did not know until after my posting that crustacean's exo-skeletons are made of chitin like those of insects and spiders. > you also but be sure they are not contaminated by pollutants as > these little critters seem pretty at ease near pollutants... > > I've fed my Dionaea's house spiders at times but fear of the > above mentioned pollutants keeps me digging pill-bugs! What pollutants do you refer to? Pill bugs near streets might be contaminated by exhaust fumes but house spiders? ### From: "Michael Reardon" Message-ID: <199802170036.LAA26505@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au> > I don't know about Lady Bugs but I kept a VFT alive for years > feeding it almost entirely on Wood Louse - it thrived on them. Okay, I am convinced. I will feed one or two to my VFT now - stay tuned! . . . . . . . . . . Arggggghhhhh! It wasn't as easy as I thought as they are damned hard! I feed with tweezers and they make pill bugs do as their name makes you expect -- form a pill. This is not appropriate! I have other wood lice that don't curl up and they are easier to handle. But two managed to run over the triggers so quickly that the trap closed behind them. One escaped in my fishtank and dug into the big black gravel around the pots. Result: ------- VFT - I managed to get two in + two empty closed traps :-( Ceph - One balanced on the brink and slipped into the pitcher (I really missed a audible "plop" :-))) Tank - One escaped in the tank :-((( Oh, by the way: what killed your VFT after 4 years??? ### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Message-ID: > I've never seen a flytrap eat a ladybug, but I know that the > Sarracenia flava in the Green Swamp in North Carolina catch > ladybugs in droves and don't seem to suffer for doing so. As this is a pitcher plant there is the possibility of similar effects as with ants. As far as I know the ladybug's yellow secretion only pours out when the bug feels like being attacked. ### Thanks for all contributions!!! Bye, Stefan -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ..................................................... Inst. f. Medizinische Informatik und Statistik (IMIS) Klinikum der Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel mail : IMIS, Brunswiker Str. 10, 24105 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 597-3173 --- fax: (+49 431) 597-3193 >>>>>> http://www.uni-kiel.de:8080/medinfo/ <<<<<<< ################### From: "Stefan P. Wolf" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:04:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Intestinal flora of Heliamphora Some kind of synopsis of "Intestinal flora of Heliamphora" I wrote: >> I have a nice H. minor and would like to know if it is able to >> "eat" in culture. As it produces no digestive liquid but gets >> help from bacteria living in the rain-water in it's pitchers I >> wonder if and how these bacteria get into my plant. I fill the >> pitchers with osmose water as that's all I have. From: lasseter@chemvx.chem.tamu.edu (Benjamin Lasseter) Message-ID: > Regarding these bacteria, they live in symbiosis with the plant. > On the average, there are about 100,000 per square inch of surface > area inside the trap. You could not possibly get rid of them without > killing the plant first, and even then I am not entirely sure the > bacteria would go. I was curious how the bacteria get into the plant if it is grown in culture. I was told they are in the air and on the prey but I feared that it takes a certain (maybe rare) type of bacteria for the Heliamphora. I am more than happy if everything works fine without intervention. > Filling the pitchers with distilled water certainly couldn't do > it, nor should you particularly desire to try. After all, they > do help the plants thrive! I only mentioned the reverse osmosis water to make sure I don't use rain water (with another possible source for bacteria). ### From: dave evans Message-ID: <199802170413.UAA13121@hplms26.hpl.hp.com> [to Benjamin] > I think he was asking how the pitchers are inoculated with the > symbiotic bacteria. I'm writing because I'd like to know also. > Where do TC plants get these bacteria from? Yes, that was my intended question. > Are these bacteria only found on the tepuis inside the plants or > are they widespread and happen to fall into a pitcher and then > become symbiotes? Exactly my train of thought as I often found references to papers on special species of pitcher plant micro-organisms. Thanks for all contributions!!! Bye, Stefan -- Dipl.-Inform. Stefan P. Wolf ..................................................... Inst. f. Medizinische Informatik und Statistik (IMIS) Klinikum der Christian-Albrechts-Universitaet zu Kiel mail : IMIS, Brunswiker Str. 10, 24105 Kiel, GERMANY phone: (+49 431) 597-3173 --- fax: (+49 431) 597-3193 >>>>>> http://www.uni-kiel.de:8080/medinfo/ <<<<<<< ################### From: Randall Palmer Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:27:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: CP David Your plant has enough moisture, put a plastic cover over it and your Venus will perk up and grow again. Randy Palmer sfdzeqe0@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:39:10 PST Subject: milled sphagnum / agar for germinating drosera? hi guys since id been experiencing problems with green slime and moss growth on a recent batch of peat moss, i decided to plant some drosera seed on a new batch of canadian peat, topped with 1 cm of "no damp off" by mosser lee = dead milled sphagnum. i was wondering if anyone else has used this to germinate drosera seed. if so, i would like to know if you had much luck. i would also like to know more about germinating seed atop agar or alternate, cleaner ways to germinate seed where mold, fungus, slime and moss growth are much less likely. please email me if youve got any suggestions. i am dealing mainly with african and south american drosera seed (since space is a major factor) but may try others as well. thanks in advance matt h. ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:25:20 +0100 Subject: Eau de Nepenthes for Men Today, my nose and I discovered the sweet fragrance of the Nepenthes flowers. I'm really wondering what kind of pollinators do they attract with such a... 'perfume'... Johannes, Perry and the others, could you answer me ? Laurent ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 14:27:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Eau de Nepenthes for Men Laurent wrote: > Today, my nose and I discovered the sweet fragrance of the Nepenthes > flowers. I'm really wondering what kind of pollinators do they > attract with such a... 'perfume'... > > Johannes, Perry and the others, could you answer me ? I'm not as qualified as Johannes, though I probably have a better nose for detecting the 'perfume'--it has a large sampling volume :-) Various sources have mentioned the role of small flies and/or beetles in Nepenthes pollination. Having experienced the 'perfume', you might agree that this makes sense. Flies and beetles are often attracted to foul-smelling things. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: cfrazie@unm.edu (Chris Frazier) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:30:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Eau de Nepenthes for Men >Today, my nose and I discovered the sweet fragrance of the Nepenthes flowers. > >I'm really wondering what kind of pollinators do they attract with such a... >'perfume'... What species is it? N. ampullaria smells like a sweaty horse and is probably attracting flies. N. rafflesiana has no smell as far as I know and may be pollinated by beetles. N. gracilis has a sweet smell. The latter appears to produce its nectar in the evening and night and it is likely to be polllinated primarily by moths. There is very little published data on pollination in Nepenthes even anecdotally. Chris ----------------------------------------------------------- Chris Frazier Dept. of Biology, UNM Albuquerque, NM, USA 87131 (505) 277-0683 Fax: (505) 277-3781 Homepage: http://redtail.unm.edu/ ################### From: Alexander and Annick Salomon Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:14:57 -0500 Subject: CP Books Available I have recently been to several bookshows/bookshops and have acquired the following books which are extras: Slack, Adrian- Carnivorous plants -hardcover edition Schwartz, Randall- Carnivorous Plants -hardcover Kurata, Shigeo- Nepenthes of Mount Kinabalu -softcover Swensen, Allen- Cultivating Carnivorous Plants -hardcover Most of these are out of print and difficult to find. If anyone is interested, please email me privately for further details. -Alexander E. Salomon, M.D. asalomon@bigfoot.com ################### From: P Mui Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:12:45 -0500 Subject: Non-pitchering Nep. Hi, All I have a Nep. question. I currently have a Nep. Gracilis (that's what = it was labeled), it putting out leaves on a regular basis. The plants = seems to be growing fine, the leaves are dark green but it has not = pitchered from the day I got it. I got the plant back in Aug.97. Does = anyone have any technique or hints on making this plant pitcher. I'm currently watering the plant twice a week, with a weak solution of = Superthrive. The Gracilis sits in a 29gal. tank with 4 Flour. tubes = above it. It has a photo period of 14hrs. and a temp from 60-85deg. and = a Humidity level from 40-70 percent. Thank for any advice you can give me. Peter ***************************** e-mail: Pmui@asan.com ################### From: "CP-MAN" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:14:35 -0500 Subject: Thanks to Bruce I lost your e-mail so sorry sending it to the list. Thanks Bruce for the N. lavicola it arrived in great condition. ################### From: "CP-MAN" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 19:17:39 -0500 Subject: Rare nepenthes seedlings Hi, anyone out there have any rare nep. seedlings( highlanders or lowlanders) for sale? If so just send me an e-mail. Thanks, Robert Hood ################### From: iwilliams@dist.gov.au (Ian Williams) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:36:45 +1000 Subject: Feeding the Traps I have noticed a penchant among those who live in the Northern Hemisphere to talk about feeding VFT's pill bugs and the like. I live in Australia and I never feed my VFTs at any time of the year. I just let them do it naturally as my grocery bill is big enough as it is. If you do insist upon feeding your VFTs try fast food, there is no preparation time. Perhaps this peculiar practice is an incident of the Northern Winter. In Canberra today I think it will be about 28 degrees C but someone has to do it. Cheers Ian Williams ################### From: Dreyseth@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:48:38 EST Subject: VFT strange occurance I have been growing some basic CP's for about four years now, and have never before seen the following occurance: One recent day, a spider was trapped by one of my Venus Flytraps, but it was only half inside the trap, its back half was sticking out. The next day I discovered that the trap had folded over or rolled onto itself along the length of the trap. Now, rather than the spider's exposed abdomen protruding out into the air, it is nearly sandwiched within the outer layer of the trap. The trap appears healthy and undamaged from such a contortion, and I anxiously wait to see if it will be able to fully unfold and reform into a viable trap again. Has anyone else witnessed extra trap folding besides the usual mechanism? -Kerry Tyler ################### From: "charles drury" Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:12:47 -0600 Subject: first time this is my first message and I'm 14/male and have been interested in CP's for two years now I have 2 VFT's,2 sundews,and one darlingtonia,I will be glad to sell or trade the plants(exept the darlingtonia)freely. my concern is for my dionea,it has lost 3 leaves in a week or two and stopped growing.it was doing well long enough to flower but steeply declined since.is this type of behavior normal? ################### From: Andrew Gibbons Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 14:55:09 +1000 Subject: Intro + Dividing VFT's Hi. My name is Andrew Gibbons. I'm kind of new to CP growing, having recieved a VFT as a gift a few weeks ago. I did try growing one about 6 years ago but it soon died within 1-2 months (Probably due to the fact that I didn't know a great deal about CP growth requirements). So, being relatively unfamiliar with growing VFT's, or any CP for that matter, I'll apologise in advance for any stupid questions I ask, or any question's for which the answer is blatantly obvious. Anyway, I've decided to give my current plant more of a chance at life. I've looked around the internet, read the FAQ and other growing instructions on various homepages and after following their advice the plant is still alive and what's more seems quite healthy. When I received the plant it was quite large to begin with ~20-30 traps with active traps ranging between 1-4 cm. So, I've decided it's best to try to divide and re-pot it. Which, eventually, leads me to my first question. Can division of these plants be carried out at any time during the year without detriment to the plant or should I wait for a particular time in the year until I re-pot it? Secondly I've read that when a trap begins to blacken, cutting the trap off will promote the growth of new traps. Should the leaf be cut at the "neck" of the trap or at the base of the leaf to best promote regrowth? Thanks Andrew .................................. Andrew Gibbons Rm 340 Developmental Neurobiology Department of Biological Sciences Monash University Wellington Rd Clayton Vic 3168 Australia Email: A.Gibbons@sci.monash.edu.au ################### From: SCTRFCS@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 00:00:49 EST Subject: CP's of Australia, Vol. 1 With regard to the situation of sold out copies of Allen Lowrie's 'Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Volume 1': Has Allen been approached to consider doing a reprint of this book given the apparent relative demand. It might be necessary for those of us who are interested to 'presubscribe' in order to determine if the numbers would be workable. Even with the color photographs it is hard to imagine the cost rising above the $200 level that appears to be the starting point for used copies. I know there are other factors that come into play however I would be interested in hearing what they are. After all we are not dealing with medical textbooks. Bob Sheppard, Los Alamos, NM. ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 09:41:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Non-pitchering Nep. > Hi, All > > I have a Nep. question. I currently have a Nep. Gracilis (that's what = > it was labeled), it putting out leaves on a regular basis. The plants = > seems to be growing fine, the leaves are dark green but it has not = > pitchered from the day I got it. I got the plant back in Aug.97. Does = > anyone have any technique or hints on making this plant pitcher. > I'm currently watering the plant twice a week, with a weak solution of = > Superthrive. The Gracilis sits in a 29gal. tank with 4 Flour. tubes = > above it. It has a photo period of 14hrs. and a temp from 60-85deg. and = > a Humidity level from 40-70 percent. > Thank for any advice you can give me. > Peter Peter: N gracilis tends to be easy pitchering and it sounds like your conditions are reasonable (even though 60F is lower than ideal for this one). So, you might consider 1) increasing the photo period slowly to about 18 hours over the next few months, 2) closing the terrarium (assuming a 70% humidity means the top is open), and 3) cutting out superthrive. FWIW, your regular use of superthrive is the only thing that sounds out of the ordinary to me. Tom in Fl. ################### From: "Kamikaze" <011114@hillstrath.on.ca> Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:36:00 -0400 Subject: tissue culture Dear list, I have tried tissue culturing many varities of CP...especially VFt with some white bulb material attached. When culturing, I sterilized the plant material in 15% bleach solution for 10 minutes. I then carefully removed the cuttings into an aquarium that had been filled with rags soaked in isopropyl alcohol and left inverted on the rags overnight...in short the aquarium was quite sterile. The media I used was also well sterilized and did not have any fungal or bacterial contamination. I then carefully transplanted the sterile (so I thought) VFT into the TC media inside the aquarium. The VFT culture after 4 days was contaminated with fungus. I repeated this experiment several time with varying strengths of bleach and alcohol. In each case, I either failed to sterilize properly or over sterilized (thus killing the plant material) the plants. I am at wits end. Please let me know any experiences that people have had with effective sterilization agents. I know that the media and aquarium were quite sterile. adwait kulkarni ################### From: John Walker Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:50:28 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Non-pitchering Nep. At 04:16 PM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, All > > I have a Nep. question. I currently have a Nep. Gracilis (that's what = >it was labeled), it putting out leaves on a regular basis. The plants = >seems to be growing fine, the leaves are dark green but it has not = >pitchered from the day I got it. I got the plant back in Aug.97. Does = >anyone have any technique or hints on making this plant pitcher. > I'm currently watering the plant twice a week, with a weak solution of = >Superthrive. The Gracilis sits in a 29gal. tank with 4 Flour. tubes = >above it. It has a photo period of 14hrs. and a temp from 60-85deg. and = >a Humidity level from 40-70 percent. > Thank for any advice you can give me. >Peter ******************************************* Peter, Your growing conditions seem to be very similar to mine and my plants pitchure up very well. You might try covering the terrarium a bit more to keep the humidity up over 70% as well as keeping the temps up above 70F. Hope this helps, John in Phoenix ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:07:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Vol. 1 In CP digest 1363 Bob Sheppard wrote: With regard to the situation of sold out copies of Allen Lowrie's 'Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Volume 1': Has Allen been approached to consider doing a reprint of this book given the apparent relative demand. It might be necessary for those of us who are interested to 'presubscribe' in order to determine if the numbers would be workable This sounds like a good way to "start the ball rolling" although I confess a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the publishing business. I noticed in Allen's 1997-98 plant/seed list that all copies of volume 1 are sold out "world wide" and he has been buying up and reselling used copies of volume 2. Does anyone in the group know Allen personally? Has he considered a second printing on either volumes 1 or 2? Just what is required for a second printing by a publisher? Is there a minimum run #? Its unfortunate since both these volumes belong in every CP enthusiast's collection. Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:07:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-pitchering Nep. Hi All: I have a bit of a problem with this first (quoted) paragraph: >>There are two basic characteristics of carnivorous plants: the plants must >>absorb nurients from captured prey and hasve special devices to attract, >>capture and then digest they prey. I think that the characteristics of a CP can be more variable and less defined than "two". There are four, to my mind, listed here. > > >>In Brocchinia reducta, tank water has a sweet, nectar-like odor which >>entices insects to approach. The leaves forming the A"tank" of this >>tubular species are coated with a waxy scurf which make it nearly >>impossible to depart once the insects enter the interior and land in >>the tank fluid. Trichomes in the leaves absorb the amino acids and >>other products of decay from the dead bugs. There is an article on >>the canivorous nature of Brocchinia reducta by Harvey L. Kendall >>entitled "Brocchina reducta: A Carnivorous Bromeliad from the Guyana >>Highlands of Venezuela." This article is in the March-April 1995 issue >>of the BSI's Journal, Volume 45, Number 2. It has lots of cultural >>information and some good pictures. Hope that this helps!! Becca >>LEitten an slua si@aol.com I thought that the discussion about carnivorous Bromeliads was settled: There were none recognized. Anyone? Jan? Something that I can quote would be nice. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: "Steve & Jan Grigg" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:09:14 +1100 Subject: N.pervellii Hi everyone, I have a question for fellow Nepenthes collectors. I would like to know what N.pervellii flower looks like and any information on this species. A friend had a plant send up what we thought was a flower, but it didn't look like anything we have seen before. I know this is an unusual species, but I can't remember ever seeing a photo of one in flower. Any ideas? The guest book on my home page has been fixed up so anyone who wants to drop by for a look, feel free to pass on comments. I check it a few times a week. Some more photos will be placed there in the not too far future. Best wishes to all, Steve Grigg. http://www.ultra.net.au/~sgrigg ################### From: B.Kwan@sci.monash.edu.au Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:39:34 +1000 Subject: VFT cloning I prefer to use the flower stalk for tissue culturing VFTs as it is cleaner. Chop it into the largest pieces that will fit in the sterilizing solution. I prefer to use Ca(OCl)2 pool chlorine at 10g/100ml with some detergent, as VFTs react badly to bleach NaOCl. I leave this shaking for 30-40 minutes then chop them up into inch long pieces and put them on 1/2MS with fairly high auxin content. VFT leaves are hard to clean and there are usually lots of unwanted flower stalks available. Regards Brian ################### From: KILSMOOTH@aol.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:51:32 EST Subject: Flytrap overbite :) Hello El Ninio fans!!Bri here...Someone had asked the list about a flytraps lip folding over on itself...Usually when this occurs,I't's just forming more of an air tight seal to hold digestive juices in, instead of letting the liquids "run through it's teeth",so to speak...Whether it returns to an active trap again depends on how many times it's been activated or used for digestion...Hope it helps your quest!! Brian Barnes :) P.S. If problems persist,see a dentist!!{chuckle} :) ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:39:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Eau de Nepenthes Trent here in the office. Couldn't help but respond to the Nepenthes flower fragrance string. Right now, my N. xMargaretea (yea, I know, its not formally registered) is in bloom and her "perfume" fills the greenhouse at night. I would not exactly call it sweet. To me, and I know this sounds strange, it smells more like stale corn chips. Pungent Fritos. N. Dyeriana smells the same, and he blooms for me every August. The only sweet smell I've ever detected from a Nepenthes is the smell produced from some pitchers. On hot, muggy days, the same N. Dyeriana produces a strong, sweet lemon-lime smell, strongest around the pitcher lid. I've detected this also from other plants, including species, but not as noticeable as N. Dyeriana. Thanks for the input on N. merrilliana. I also grow N. globamphora and truncata, and even though in nature they are from the same geographical region, both are much faster and more robust growers. Any further input is greatly appreciated. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:38:20 EST Subject: Re:VFT Andrew Spring is a good time to transplant, diluted liquid fertilizer ( two days in a row over middle of Venus) stimulates new hairs on the roots after move. If Venus starts to dry out, it needs water over roots. If traps turn black to much water. Keeping them alive is easier when you keeps a plastic dome over the plant and some of these unwanted condition will stop also. ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 20:00:24 -0700 Subject: Re: Non-pitchering Nep -> Carnivorous bromeliads >I thought that the discussion about carnivorous Bromeliads was >settled: >There were none recognized. > >Anyone? Jan? Something that I can quote would be nice. I am not sure who to attribute this quote to but I feel it is appropriate. "Nature does not define. Man does." Do you actually expect to get a consensus of opinions on this? Pardon my sarcasm but I can imagine some jokes that start out with "how many scholars does it take to determine if a plant is carnivorous?" Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: "MR E.C. VAN ZUILEKOM" <9623426@rgo.sun.ac.za> Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:46:49 +0200 Subject: Intro... Greetings everyone, Erik van Zuilekom here from South Africa, I have been keeping an eye on the list for the last few months and only now have the oppertunity to send in an intro. due to certain problems experienced with the Stellenbosch Univ. network. I have been growing Cp's for a few years now and have been able to build up a reasonable collection with the limited space presently in hand. I must admit that I have begun perfecting the art of space utilization at home, for the umptienth time...something almost ALL Cp'ers seem to have to do, with the addiction involved with this sort of collection...daa. I am presently head curator of the Stellenbosch Univ. Botanical Gardens CP section, greatly increasing the oppertunity to get out there and spend more time trudging through the Cape, with all its so far undescovered species...(he he). All the best, and am greatly looking forward to this years collection connection. Erik ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>Erik van Zuilekom<< E-mail: 9623426@rgo.sun.ac.za >>>>Address: 117 Panorama Drive, Stellenryk 7530,<<<< >>>> Cape Town, South Africa <<<< >>>>Phone: (027) 031 99-1807 <<<< ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ################### From: Antonio Peixoto Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:04:12 +0000 Subject: Photos of Cp's in the wild Hi everyone, I would like to know if anyone has some nice photos of CP's in the wild. If this is the case would you be interested in exchanging or selling them. If not I would be contented with some sites that have photos of CP's, besides CP's database. That=B4s all folks Hoping to here from you soon TOZE ################### From: j sullivan Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 08:15:13 -0800 Subject: National Geographic -- May 1961 I recently purchased this magazine for $1 while rummaging through antique stores on Magazine St. in New Orleans. Besides talking about the upcoming first orbital trip of Project Mercury (John Glenn had apparently not yet been selected for the flight), this issue contains an interesting article by Paul A. Zahl on "Plants That Eat Insects." The 17 page article has a number of good photos of cps, including some in habitat. It's worth looking for this if you are in a store that carries back issues of this magazine. Jack ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:36:06 Subject: Re: Eau de Nepenthes for Men > I'm really wondering what kind of pollinators do they attract with such a... > 'perfume'... Kato, M. Floral biology of _Nepenthes gracilis_ (Nepenthaceae) in Sumatra Am. J. Bot. 80 (8):924-927 (1993) Abstract: _Nepenthes gracilis_, a dioecious carnivorous plant, has inconspicuous flowers lacking petals. Nectaries distributed on the upper surface of four sepals secrete dilute nectar (3%-12% sugar concentration) at night, but the nectar immediately disappears during the day by evaporation in the sunny environment of Sumatra. Male flowers have a higher nectar production rate but lower sugar concentration of nectar than female flowers. Flowers of both sexes were visited by pyralid moths at night and by calliphorid flies in the evening. Pollen was found attached on these insects visiting Nepenthes flowers. The pattern of nectar production of sepals is regarded as attracting nocturnal flying insects and avoiding ants, while the pitchers attract ants by nectar secreted on the pitcher rim. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:35:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Non-pitchering Nep -> Carnivorous bromeliads >>I thought that the discussion about carnivorous Bromeliads was >>settled: >>There were none recognized. >> >>Anyone? Jan? Something that I can quote would be nice. > >I am not sure who to attribute this quote to but I feel it is >appropriate. > >"Nature does not define. Man does." Nature alone defines. Nature is. Man, pertimes, has the acumen to express some of those definitions. Perhaps your quote refers only to the human tendency to use labels, a necessary consequence of language.. >Do you actually expect to get a consensus of opinions on this? I expect to hear some science on this, as I have in the past. Opinion is easily come by. A source or two would be nice. I do know that there has been some research done on the question of carnivorous Bromeliads. I _think_ that I have heard on this List that there is a scientific consensus on what makes a plant carnivorous. This is why I am posting this question here. >Pardon my sarcasm but I can imagine some jokes that start out >with "how many scholars does it take to determine if a plant is >carnivorous?" > >Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" One good one, Richard, whose experiments and results can be reliably duplicated. Very few scholars do practical research. Kind Regards, Rand ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 14:01:12 +0000 Subject: Re: tissue culture "Kamikaze" <011114@hillstrath.on.ca> writes: > I have tried tissue culturing many varities of CP...especially VFt > with some white bulb material attached. When culturing, I sterilized > the plant material in 15% bleach solution for 10 minutes. I then That sounds fine, but VFT tissue is difficult to sterilise (compared to most Drosera, Ping, Utric.) I would recommend washing the explant prior to sterilisation for 30 mins to 1 hr (amazing how much contamination is reduced just by washing with plain water!) The easiest way is to suspend it in a piece of nylon mesh (bridal veil or similar,) under a running tap. You may also wish to soak for 5-10 mins in Hydrogen peroxide as well before bleaching, and adding a few drops of detergent to the bleach to ensure good wetting. It's much easier to work from seeds with this sp., as they're so nice and shiny, but of course you can't do red/dentate/other interesting cultivars and forms from seed... > carefully removed the cuttings into an aquarium that had been filled > with rags soaked in isopropyl alcohol and left inverted on the rags Leaving the cutting overnight is perhaps not ideal - all sorts of spores etc. can waft in with small air currents and settle. The alcohol will almost certainly evaporate from the glass surfaces in a short time, even if the rags are still saturated (one reason I prefer bleach - nearly burning the house down last year is another!) Better to sterilise the aquarium immediately prior to culturing. I prefer to use diluted bleach (same as for plant tissue or stronger,) for sterilising - mist or swab all interior surfaces and leave for 20 mins. Then just blot lightly to absorb excess (it will do no harm to leave the surfaces damp with bleach, but you don't want it dripping into the flasks!) > overnight...in short the aquarium was quite sterile. The media I used > was also well sterilized and did not have any fungal or bacterial You can narrow down the point at which the problem is occuring by trying some "dry runs" - opening, prodding around in and closing flasks in the (hopefully) sterile aquarium. If the aquarium, tweezers, etc. are sterile then they should remain contamination-free. But indeed the problem is more likely with the tissue than the aquarium. > contamination. I then carefully transplanted the sterile (so I > thought) VFT into the TC media inside the aquarium. The VFT culture > after 4 days was contaminated with fungus. I repeated this experiment > several time with varying strengths of bleach and alcohol. In each > case, I either failed to sterilize properly or over sterilized (thus > killing the plant material) the plants. I am at wits end. > > Please let me know any experiences that people have had with > effective sterilization agents. I know that the media and aquarium > were quite sterile. Hope this helps, Happy cloning, Peter +++ Peter Cole, 17 Wimmerfield Cr.,Killay,SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK +++ mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk - http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ ++++ Carnivorous Plants, seeds and tissue culture kits for sale ++++ ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:22:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Bromeliads Rand, Ok, first off, I apologize for what was perhaps a rather flippant previous post. While I do not believe there is an absolute "answer" to the possible carnivory of any Bromeliads I do believe the question and search for the answer are extremely interesting. In a black and white world of definitions and labels it is clearly a shade of grey. Some say a very light grey and others will say dark enough that it is not white. Most people will agree that a plant that demonstrates the following mechanisms is clearly carnivorous: 1. Specialized mechanisms to attract prey. 2. Specialized mechanisms to capture prey. 3. Production of enzymes to digest prey. 4. Ability to absorb and utilize nutrients from digested prey. As you yourself implied in your post, not everyone follows such a strict definition or label if you prefer. The shades of grey, however, keep it interesting and not all standard CP show all of these mechanisms. I don't believe anyone has demonstrated any attractants to Utricularia traps, S. psittacina does not seem to be very effective at capturing prey, and the effectiveness of digestive enzymes in S. purpurea appears to be minimal. Some would argue that they are carnivorous by "association" of being Sarracenia since other Sarracenia meet all of the above criteria. What about Drosera caduca then? Many plants that are not considered carnivorous are capable of absorbing nutrients placed on their leaves however. Brocchinia reducta produces a sweet smell that attracts ants and has a waxy cuticle that is difficult to grip. It produces no digestive enzymes but it does create an environment suitable for bacteria to break down insects into absorbable nutrients (namely the water cup in the center). It is capable of absorbing those nutrients. A lot of plants have waxy cuticles and as stated above are capable of absorbing nutrients. Dead insects are frequently found in the cup and experimentaly, plants "fed" insects grow faster than those that are not fed. Is it "as carnivorous" as Nepenthes? No. Is it "more carnivorous" than Opuntia? I think so. Is this carnivorous enough to be carnivorous? If you ask enough experts I guarantee you will get answers on both sides. If Jan has not already replied I believe he is on the NO side. What do you think? The case for Brocchinia was originally made in: Givnish, Burkhardt, Happel and Weintraub, The American Naturalist 124, No. 4: p 479-497, 1984 if you are interested. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: Mars Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:09:06 +0100 Subject: FW: Photos of Cp's in the wild Hi Antiono, >I would like to know if anyone has some nice photos of CP's in the >wild. If this is the case would you be interested in exchanging or >selling them. If not I would be contented with some sites that have photos >of CP's, besides CP's database. You can find a few pictures of CP in habitat on my homepage at http://www.hacom.nl/~mars Species are D. rotundifolia, D. intermedia and (probably) P. grandiflora. The other pictures are of cultivated CP. CU, Mars ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:41:24 +0100 Subject: Nep odour Hi all Sorry, Perry, I've forgotten you in my Nep-wizards list. And didn't know your nose-abilities... (-; Well, my smelling Nepenthes is Burkei (a kind of ventricosa for remembering) and the smell is like some urinal fragrance, lightly, with another smell remembering to me the fresh corn, when you take it, still green, in the fields. But the image of the sweaty horse isn't so bad. Noticing the nectar was produced at night, I imagined they could be pollinated by night butterflies. Then, analyzing with my ACME-nose the odour, I imagined beetles and flies. I'm glad I've found the answer... Though it means I must live with this stuff in my room for many days. Hopefully, it's winter and there are no flies, nor beetles. Thinking how my Sarr rubra was attracting the wasps in my house last summer, I wouldn't imagine... BZZ-BZZ Laurent PS : once again (I've seen this question many times here) how could I pack some pollen to send it by mail ? ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:13:54 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Vol. 1 > With regard to the situation of 'Carnivorous > Plants of Australia, Volume 1': Has Allen been approached to consider > doing a > reprint of this book given the apparent relative demand. > > This sounds like a good way to "start the ball rolling" although I > confess a complete lack of knowledge when it comes to the publishing > business. .... > Has he considered a second printing on either volumes 1 or > 2? Just what is required for a second printing by a publisher? Is there > a minimum run #? Small press runs are not unusual for academic books, they do not generally occur in the popular (commercial) press. Small press runs for academics may be 1000 copies. However, in these runs royalties are about 10-15% and there are no up front funds to the author. So, if Allen can collect used copies and sell them for several hundred a pop, he may be making more money than he would at a 10% royalty on a re-release. On top of that, how many potential purchasers of CP books already have Allen's book? Are there 1000 people in CP who do not have the book? And a last potential issue, publishers want a fast sell of a press run, they do not want to store copies, it's too expensive. Tom in Fl. ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 13:15:57 PST Subject: attn: Tissue Culture Experts I might be getting my hands on some rare Drosera and other CP in the future which I would like to see mass-propagated by tissue culture, preferably on a non-commercial level. If you think you can help or know someone who might be able to, please email me. Thanks in advance. Matt ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 18:19 EST Subject: Re: Re: Non-pitchering Nep. Hi List, > > I have a Nep. question. I currently have a Nep. Gracilis (that's what = > >it was labeled), it putting out leaves on a regular basis. The plants = > >seems to be growing fine, the leaves are dark green but it has not = > >pitchered from the day I got it. I got the plant back in Aug.97. Does = > >anyone have any technique or hints on making this plant pitcher. > > I'm currently watering the plant twice a week, with a weak solution of = > >Superthrive. Twice a week sounds like way too much SuperThrive to me. I use it on transplants and leaf cuttings and I want to try some on stem-leaf cuttings soon. Can't really understand why you'd use that much as it will start weakening the roots, if it were to build up it the soil. I don't know that it can, but why chance it? Once a month or every six weeks is a much more benefical schedule and that's for the second and probably last use. Dave Evans ################### From: dave evans Date: Fri, 20 Feb 98 18:38 EST Subject: Re: Re: Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Vol. 1 > Small press runs are not unusual for academic books, they do not > generally occur in the popular (commercial) press. Small press runs > for academics may be 1000 copies. However, in these runs royalties > are about 10-15% and there are no up front funds to the author. So, > if Allen can collect used copies and sell them for several hundred a > pop, he may be making more money than he would at a 10% royalty on a > re-release. On top of that, how many potential purchasers of CP books > already have Allen's book? Are there 1000 people in CP who do not > have the book? And a last potential issue, publishers want a fast > sell of a press run, they do not want to store copies, it's too > expensive. Well, I'd like to know how to order this book. However, Allen can keep it if it's more than cover price for used copy. Now, how can I obtain the information in this book at a reasonble price? I'll gladly pay for the royality on a decent copy, but why would a collectors' fee be imposed on *used* copies? Does Allen sell photostatic copies? Please don't go into all that stuff about royalities again, I understand and am perfectly willing to pay for them. It's not as though anyone makes royalities from the selling of used books anyway. Dave Evans ################### From: "CP-MAN" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 19:52:28 -0500 Subject: Cp chat room Hi, does anyone use cp chat room on his webpage. I can never find anyone there. If any one goes there can you let me know what time you go there and your timezone.Maybe we can all arrange a time to have a weekly meeting there. Robert Hood ################### From: Michael Fleck Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:17:01 -0800 Subject: National Geographic back issues. >I recently purchased this magazine for $1 while rummaging through >antique stores on Magazine St. in New Orleans. Besides talking about the >upcoming first orbital trip of Project Mercury (John Glenn had >apparently not yet been selected for the flight), this issue contains an >interesting article by Paul A. Zahl on "Plants That Eat Insects." >The 17 page article has a number of good photos of cps, including some >in habitat. >It's worth looking for this if you are in a store that carries back >issues of this magazine. >Jack I agree, an excellent article. Although, as many of us know, very difficult to find. Also great NG articles are: "Malaysia's Giant Flowers and Insect-trapping Plants" (May 1964) and "In the Wilds of a City Parlor" (Nov 1954) Both by Paul A. Zahl and no longer in print or widely available. A nice way to get these 3 issues (and 1293 others) is to by them on CD-Rom. Thats right, 108 years worth of National Geographic Magazine on 30 CD's. Its available from NG at : http://ngsstore.nationalgeographic.com/store/geo/SCIENCE/LEVEL3/bud/83201C.html At $ 179.00 USD it's not cheap but in relation to $ 200 for Lowrie's CP of Oz vol. 1, it's quite reasonable. Not only 3 articles on CP's but 108 years worth of excellent artilces on anything you can imagine. 1888 to 1996, every page, photo and even ads. All indexed for easy access. If you stacked them all on each other they would stand almost 500 feet high. No, I don't work for NG or get a percentage, I just think this is a wonderful resource. Especially if you have childeren or are a student. I have every issue from Feb 1967 to present and it takes up 12 feet of shelf. CD is a much more "apartment friendly" way of storing back issues. Maybe the price will come down in time or when it comes out on DVD (oh joy, another hardware upgrade) Regards, Mike ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:24:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Non-pitchering Nep I finally had to jump in on this N. gracilis that won't pitcher. Rather than quote the original statement for the umpteenth time, I'll get to my observations on N. gracilis, as described. I agree with all the other Nep growers: stop giving it so much Superthrive. Superthrive works best at reducing transplanting shock, and keeping seedlings robust. Mature plants are not much affected. I find gracilis stops pitchering when it is not getting enough light- footcandle (lumens)-wise, not so much duration. I had a gracilis that vined out with luxurious leaves, and no pitchers, during the middle of the summer. Long days, but growing in the shade. The best pitchers are produced when the leaf color is a bright yellow green. The dark pitchered form will have a reddish flush at the base of the leaves and the main vine. Also the leaves are closer together, creating a more compact plant. Keep in mind, when it is brighter, watch out for low humidity! Gotta go! Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 18:58:52 PST Subject: Re: National Geographic -- May 1961 >I recently purchased this magazine for $1 while rummaging through >antique stores on Magazine St. in New Orleans. Besides talking about the >upcoming first orbital trip of Project Mercury (John Glenn had >apparently not yet been selected for the flight), this issue contains an >interesting article by Paul A. Zahl on "Plants That Eat Insects." > >The 17 page article has a number of good photos of cps, including some >in habitat. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- National Geographic also published a great article in their magazine on Mar. 1987 titled "Mysteries of The Bog". It contains detailed information on the different types of bogs and showed some wetland anatomy. It also had a short section on bog dwelling CP with some cool pictures. ______________________________________________ Justin T. Arthur | | | 0 0 | | & | Chapel Hill, NC 27514 | \___/ | United States Of America --------- ################### From: Craig S Gardner Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 21:19:28 -0800 Subject: Re: tissue culture I would agree with Peter that bleach is better than alcohol for sterilizing work surfaces and chamber. I had a lot of hit and miss when I used alcohol but now that I use bleach (10 percent) I have very little contamination you might also try PPM links to info and ordering info are at Carol Stiff's Home page at http://www.home.turbonet.com/sati/tcinfo.htm. I have just started to experiment with PPM but it looks very promising so far. >Better to sterilise the aquarium immediately prior to >culturing. I prefer to use diluted bleach (same as for plant >tissue or stronger,) for sterilising - mist or swab all interior >surfaces and leave for 20 mins. Then just blot lightly to absorb >excess (it will do no harm to leave the surfaces damp with bleach, >but you don't want it dripping into the flasks!) -- Happy Growing Craig S. Gardner 173 Perry St. Ukiah, Ca. 95482 USA (707)462-5331 (707)468-1175 ################### From: dave evans Date: Sat, 21 Feb 98 02:23 EST Subject: Re: Re: N, ventricosa or burkei? Hi Trent, > Gladly. The pitchers are the main difference. They are more > infundibulate (I don't have my Nepenthes lit. with me as I am at the > office. I believe this latin term refers to a "funnel" shape) , that is, > the pitcher is narrow at the base, becoming much broader at the > peristome. Now, this is a young plant, so I know the difference between > an upper and lower pitcher on ventricosa. Ok, well I have two N.ventricosa and one N.burkei. All have upper pitchers on which the top half is funnel shaped. I have not seen the lower pitchers on the N. burkei since it was a cutting from an adult vine and has not made any basal rosettes yet. This young plant, what stage would you say it's in? Only a couple years from seed or a cutting from an older plant? Perhaps the upper pitchers of these two species(?) are similar... Dave Evans ################### From: "C. J. Mazur" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 09:52:14 -0500 Subject: TC info Hello all, One of the additions I'm planning on adding to our web page in the new future is a list of TC CP types. So if you are currently TC ing Carnivorous Plants, or have any great CP tissue culture links, could you email me privately if you'd like your name or link put on our page. With the way me life is, I can't promise getting that page up in the very near future, however, Its an addition I'd like to do. Best Regards, Carl J. Mazur Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants Ontario Canada http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 13:23:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Intestinal flora of Heliamphora > I think he was asking how the pitchers are > inoculated with the symbiotic bacteria. I'm writing > because I'd like to know also. > Where do TC plants get these bacteria from? Are > these bacteria only found on the tepuis inside the > plants or are they widespread and happen to fall > into a pitcher and then become symbiotes? Dave, About a year or more ago there was a Dr Liane Cochran-Starsomething on the list. I'm obviously mangling her name. If I remember correctly she was doing research on this very topic in the Sarracenia species and we discussed this on the list. She might still be on this list (in which case I hope she forgives my spelling), if not the archives might hold some clues for you. Hope this helps Phil ################### From: "Paul V. McCullough" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:34:06 -0500 Subject: VFT Flower! Hey, here's something I've never seen before. My VFT, just emerging from it's winter rest, is sending up a flower. What do I find unusual? The flower's just about to open and the stalk it's on is on half an inch high, and mostly covered by overgrowing traps- in fact the flower is actually pushing a trap over to bloom! Looking below the trap, I see to more buds forming. All of the VFT flowers I've ever seen have grown on stalks about 6" to 12" above the plant. Has anyone else seen this? Also, my VFT ate it's first meal of '98 today- a wayward bathroom spider somehow got into the Klima-gro... well okay... I helped. The trap that the spider "fell" into was laying inside of another trap- both closed simultaneously! Cheers, Paul -- Paul V. McCullough "3D Animation World" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull "CP Page" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull/pics/cp/carniv.htm ################### From: Craig S Gardner Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 14:02:55 -0800 Subject: CP Tissue Culture Mailing List I have started a mailing list for the tissue culture of Carnivorous plants. I hope everone interested in TC of CP will join to exchange information. You can subscribe at http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/cp_tissue_culture -- Happy Growing Craig S. Gardner 173 Perry St. Ukiah, Ca. 95482 USA (707)462-5331 (707)468-1175 ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 00:14:55 GMT Subject: Re: Second Plant? (Public THANK YOU!) I would like to thank the list and everyone who replied to my 'Second Plant?' posting a few weeks ago... I received numerous email's leading me towards different ideas on where I should go with my CP career now...=20 I would also like to publicly thank Jim Bockowski who not only gave me good advice, but also sent several different rooted cuttings for this newbie to sink his hands on... It's great to have people in the world who share knowledge and possessions so others can enjoy the very same hobby... Jim has been a great help with everything and I felt this would be the place to give a big "KUDOS JIM!"... Thanks again for everything and I now know I'm a part of this culture as much as the rest of you, only on a smaller scale! *Grin* ... Richard Berg ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: "CP-MAN" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 19:25:38 -0500 Subject: Cp Chat and National Geographic I ment the chat room on Peter Cole's site. My grandparents have every isssue of National Geographic since 1957 so they have the 1961 and 1987 issue. I like the 1961 issue better though.Whenever I visit them I read the article.It has a picture of a guy opening a box of some cp he got through the mail. It has pics. of sarr. dionea, drosera, I forget if there was pings.Help me rember someonewas this the issue of national geographic with all the npenthes pictures or was it another issue. That is my favorite one. Great Nepenthes pics. Robert ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:21:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: CP of Australia Vol 1 Tom said: > So if Allen can collect used copies and sell them for several hundred a > pop, he may be making more money than he would at a 10% royalty on a > re-release. I just bought my copy of Vol 2 directly from Allen and he didn't sell it for a whole lot more than I got it from Amazon.com. I'd be surprised if even Allen could find copies of Vol 1 for anything even vaguely considered "reasonable" to even think about turning it around for a lot of profit. And at least according to his price list, he doesn't have _any_ copies of Vol 1 left. I'd go out on a limb and guess that he'd like to see another print run, since it is, after all, his book and I would guess an author would like to see more people buy his book if he thinks anything of the work he put into it. > On top of that, how many potential purchasers of CP books already have > Allen's book? Are there 1000 people in CP who do not have the book? It sure seems like it. :) I would certainly be willing to pay more than the cover price for a reprint. If they wanted to run off 500 and sell them for double, I'd probably still buy it. I'd even consider buying 100 if I could afford it and hold onto them until they're worth 10 times the cover price again. :) > And a last potential issue, publishers want a fast sell of a press run, > they do not want to store copies, it's too expensive. It would be interesting to see how many copies of Taylor's book got reprinted, when, how many and how many have been sold since the reprint. Anyone know someone at Kew Publications? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 20:28:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: CP Of Australia Vol 1 Dave Evans said: > Well, I'd like to know how to order this book. However, Allen can > keep it if it's more than cover price for used copy. Now, how can I > obtain the information in this book at a reasonble price? I'll gladly > pay for the royality on a decent copy, but why would a collectors' fee > be imposed on *used* copies? Does Allen sell photostatic copies? Ah, these are probably rhetorical questions, but let me answer them anyway. It's called "Supply and demand." If you're willing to only pay cover price, and I'm willing to pay $150, guess who the owner of the book is going to sell it to? :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Tom Hulse" Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:47:16 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes bicalcarata I've recently been interested in N. bicalcarata and I wonder if anyone knows of a good source for a small plant or cutting. Thanks! Tom Hulse ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 22:09:51 -0500 Subject: Re:Burkei or ventricosa redux >This young plant, what stage would you say it's in? Only a couple of years from seed or a cutting from an older >plant, Perhaps the upper pitchers of these two species are similar. Hello Dave from sunny south Florida, The young plant of N. burkei is identical to the one at Atlanta Botanical Gardens, and I believe it came from John DeKanel. The plant is not mine, but seeing it among a group of ventricosa of similar age, it does look different. Its hard to say, but the pitchers may be an intermediate form. The plant is too young to be producing true upper pitchers. They have a definite funnel shape- more so than the ventricosa benchmates. No doubt burkei is closely related to ventricosa, but there is a difference, and to me it is fairly apparent. I'm hardly a taxonomist, so maybe it is a form of ventricosa scientically- look at mirabilis and echinostoma- but somewhere along the line a botanist decided it is a different species (burkei compared to ventricosa) and I can see it. These new species from the Phillippines are very interesting in that they all have "ventricosa like" features. I wonder how many more there are yet to be discovered in some remote area on one of the islands. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 04:32:24 GMT Subject: SuperThrive? Hormex? Greets, Just received some Nep's and found a lot of info on superthrive being used as a stress agent in re-potting, establishing, etc... I found a local nursery that carried it, however they were all out of stock but had a product called Hormex which sells for about the same price, only twice as much as ST... I was wondering if anyone had used this product and could recommend it? It's contents are mainly 99.765 inert B1 with a few trace elements here and there... Basically SuperThrive (I'm pretty sure?)... I picked up an 8 oz bottle for around $7 but haven't applied it to the new additions... Just looking for any advice or maybe a 'Go Ahead, Try It -- Let us know'... Thanks! ... Richard Berg ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean De Witte) Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 15:35:56 +0000 Subject: pricelis OK, this is it, I have been able to get a count of my nepenthes and get a pricelist together. I didn't have the time to get the pictures of the new species on the home page, but they will be there (together with a renovated home) hopefully within two weeks. Take care, mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de http://home.t-online.de/home/j.dewitte public key :http://www.nic.surfnet.nl/pgp/pks-toplev.html ################### From: "Dr Pamela Burns-Balogh" Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 08:37:14 -0600 Subject: Slack's Book on Carnivorous Plants I have been reading emails from people wanting a copy of Slack's Books on Carnivorous plants.. You may be able to get a reprinted- photocopy from MIT Press... here is the reference to it.. I have seen some quite outrageous prices for this book as well as volume 1 of carnivorous plants of Australia.. So try the link below... MIT Document Services will reproduce copies of MIT Press books which are no longer in print. Reproductions consist of bound photocopies of the MIT Libraries' copy of the original Press title. Price and ordering information is available. http://libraries.mit.edu/docs/mitpress.html MIT Press Monographs -- Out of Print (photocopy reprints) Domestic = $51 (postage incl.) International = $69 (postage incl.) (For titles longer than 400 pages, add $.25 per page overage.) Ordering, Payment, and Delivery Options Ordering Options Fax 617.253.1690 Email docs@mit.edu Online Form http://libraries.mit.edu/docs/whichform-form.html OCLC symbol MYG Telephone 617.253.5668 Monday-Friday 9AM-5PM EST Mail MIT Document Services Room 14-0551 77 Massachusetts Ave. Cambridge, MA 02139-4307 U.S.A. Payment Options VISA, MasterCard, or American Express Invoice (Domestic only) Pam Dr. Pamela Burns-Balogh balogh@balogh.com Balogh Scientific Books, http://www.balogh.com 1911 N. Duncan Rd. , Champaign, Illinois 61821 USA fax: +1 217 355 9413; phone: +1 217 355 9331 ################### From: Mars Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:27:56 +0100 Subject: Sarracenia crown split Hi List, Perhaps you can help me with the following. My S. purpurea has an usually dark red crown from where the pitchers are growing. Now the red crown has "opened" and under the surface a white colour (rhizome?) is visible. This is different from new growth which never has lost its dark red colour. Can this be a sign of upcoming flowering or is it something else? I wanted to propagate my Sarracenia by a rhizome/leaf cutting, but I don't know if this is the right time now. Thanks for reading me, Mars The chances of anything coming from Mars... E-mail: mars@hacom.nl URL: http://www.hacom.nl/~mars ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 11:36:00 -0700 Subject: Re: Sarracenia crown split On Sun, 22 Feb 1998 Mars writes: >My S. purpurea has an usually dark red >crown from where the pitchers are growing. Now the red crown has >"opened" and under >the surface a white colour (rhizome?) is visible. This is different >from new growth which >never has lost its dark red colour. Can this be a sign of upcoming >flowering or is it something else? Sounds like a flower stalk emerging to me, and if your plant is coming out of dormancy, this would be the right time. >I wanted to propagate my Sarracenia by a rhizome/leaf >cutting, but I don't know if this is the right time now. If you want your plant to flower and possibly produce seed then I would wait to divide your plant. If not, then go ahead and divide it now but cut off the flower stalk as soon as it can be safely removed. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 16:31:30 EST Subject: On cultivars Greetings, folks; Peter D'Amato here in muddy California. I found the last few days of comments about cultivars interesting, and would have responded sooner, but our roads have been flooded and I could not get to the greenhouse, where our office and computer are. I don't know if Mr. Evan's comments on the publication of cultivars and laziness were directed to me, for if he knew me, he would certainly know I am far from being a lazy person. One of the reasons I personally delayed publication of several cultivars is that after six years of trying to have plants like S. x 'Judith Hindle' tissued cultured, and meeting only with failure, I for one will not be publishing these plants until I am reasonably certain the plants will be mass produced and available to those who want them. I have Ron Gagliardo to thank for getting some of these plants in vitro. After the publication of S. x 'Judith Hindle' back in 1993, I receive calls and letters almost on a weekly basis on her availability. Unfortunately I have to respond in the negative. Worse, the plant is on display at California Carnivores, and it is singly the most popular plant of all 600 or so we have in our collection. Some people get downright angry if this or that plant is "unavailable at this time". I have continued to breed, evaluate and choose cultivars, and I mention some of these in my upcoming book - only because I now have hope that they will be soon or eventually in vitro, thanks to the hard work and patience of people like Mr. Gagliardo, who must put up with my fairly frequent phone calls and cards inquiring as to their status. I agree with Jan that the publication of these plants should be done through ICPS, since they are the official registrar. However, if I am not mistaken, by law cultivars may be published also in catalogues, magazines and books, etc., that receive wide circulation. This is not how I go about publication, and my mentioning in "The Savage Garden" of certain cultivars does not, to me, mean that they are "published". Since I am a strong supporter of the Society, I will be publishing these plants in The Newsletter, as they become available, and I urge others to do so as well. There is, of course, another problem, which ICPS has not yet addressed, and the problem is a large one. I discussed this during my lecture at the 1997 International meeting in Atlanta, and I go into quite a bit in my book. So far, ICPS only registers CULTIVARS, and not simply new crosses, as does more organized and established hobbies as orchids. When a new hybrid is produced, if it is the first time such a cross was made, then it should be published and registered with a fancy non-Latin name. Thereafter, anyone duplicating the cross would always call it by that name. If a particular plant from that cross warranted distinction, enough to be propagated vegatatively to preserve its uniqueness, then that particular plant would be given a cultivar status and published further. Currently ICPS does not do this, as it only registers cultivars, and not new crosses. Frankly, if anyone were to tackle this job, and backtrack and trace down all hybrids so far done, and find out who did them and when ... well, as you can see this would be a daunting task that just might drive one to suicide. So as it is, only cultivars are published by ICPS. Th-th-th-that's all folks, and its back to the mud. Peter ################### From: AL850R Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:35:46 +0900 Subject: ADRIAN SLACK'S BOOKS Hi CP lovers, I am selling both of my Slack books. Give me a price. The highest price, I will sell the book to. Thanks, -Andrew- ################### From: M & M Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:27:27 +10 Subject: a few questions. Hi, two questions if I may..... First I seem to have a bit of a smiley green algae sort of build up on the top of my plants potted in peat & spagnham moss in my greenhouse.... would anyone have any suggestions please. I had heard that it would peel off, but this is difficult as there are some small plants that would be damaged. I tried to put some live spag. moss on top but it soon died I guess no water getting through the slime. Also I have a S. Oreophilla x Leucophylla which has been sending out dummy pitchers (like the winter pitchers half the full size with a very small unformed hood , whole blade bending backwards) since about October & I can't work out why. ... humidity / water seems ok & is getting lots of light in the greenhouse, it's still Summer here. Any ideas? I guess at this stage I should just let it go dormant & hope that it will come back as it should in Spring. Thanks. Mark - OZ. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:39:08 Subject: Re: On cultivars Dear Peter & al., > There is, of course, another problem, which ICPS has not yet addressed, > and the problem is a large one. This is a matter of opinion. I do not think that there is any such problem at all (see below). > I discussed this during my lecture at the > 1997 International meeting in Atlanta, and I go into quite a bit in my book. > So far, ICPS only registers CULTIVARS, and not simply new crosses, as does > more organized and established hobbies as orchids. When a new hybrid is > produced, if it is the first time such a cross was made, then it should be > published and registered with a fancy non-Latin name. The nomenclature of cultivated orchids is different from all other cultivated plants because the "grex" has some other (higher) significance. An equivalent for grex (which is only applicable for orchids according to ICNCP 1995) is the cultivar group. Contrary to what has been stated, cultivar groups have in fact been established also for (some) cps (Fleming, CPN 8:10-12, 1979). > Thereafter, anyone > duplicating the cross would always call it by that name. This is a misunderstanding quite frequently encountered. It is, however, *not* at all mandatory to use cultivar group designations if a hybrid by a given formula is repeated and one or several plants resulting therefrom are selected as cultivars. The assignment of a given cultivar to a given cultivar group is essentially a personal decision by the registrant or by any other person who is interested in these issues. The reason for this assignment does not even need to be similar parentage but can e.g. be a common colouration feature (a Green Pitcher Group of _Sarracenia_ is conceivable, including a cultivar of _S. p. heterophylla_ and anthocyanin-free or -poor plants of other species). > If a particular > plant from that cross warranted distinction, enough to be propagated > vegatatively to preserve its uniqueness, then that particular plant would be > given a cultivar status and published further. I cannot imagine a cultivar group to be established if it does not include at least one cultivar. So your "particular plant" must be present and should be described and published *before* the cultivar group is established. > Currently ICPS does not do > this, as it only registers cultivars, and not new crosses. Wrong (see reference above). It is true, however, that we cannot publish what is not submitted to us for publication. Cultivar group names have to be established like cultivar names (by registrants, not by registrars), they are *not* created automatically by the IRA, and it is also not the job of an IRA to perform cultivar group assignments. NB: A registrant is a person who *submits* cultivar data for registration of a cultivar name to a registration authority. A registrar is a person who is authorized by a registration authority to accept these data and who keeps a register of these names. > Frankly, if > anyone were to tackle this job, and backtrack and trace down all hybrids so > far done, and find out who did them and when ... well, as you can see this > would be a daunting task that just might drive one to suicide. So as it is, > only cultivars are published by ICPS. Presently, we are fighting very hard (and, IMHO, quite successfully so) to accumulate all the necessary information (no suicides so far), but support from the horticultural trade has been moderate. Especially "outlaw" cultivators who keep publishing (just mentioning a name in a book *is* a publication; it is *not* a cultivar description or even an establishment of the name) new names without descriptions complicate the job to a considerable degree. In the future, only registered names will be established (or acceptable), but the forthcoming International Register of cultivated carnivorous plants will include all names that have been published, i.e. also the unacceptable, not established ones. There is no law to punish persons who do not stick to the internationally agreed rules of cultivated plant nomenclature, so we can only brand their names as unacceptable in the Register. In this respect, the International Register will at the same time be an invitation to all cp cultivators to register their names and the stocks for those who have published names without registration. Kind regards Jan ################### From: leosong@fullerton.edu (Leo or Marybeth Song) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:50:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: CP # 1366 Crosses Dear list: I have been following the cultivar thread and Peter's comments have prompted me to answer with a few comments of my own. Since I archive all the exchange publications, including the Journal of the Insectivorous Society of Japan, I have been following their descriptions of new cultivars. One series are the 'koto' crosses made at the Kyoto School of Agriculture beginning in 1978. The descriptions of each 'koto' is actually the name of a cross, with numbered individuals from that cross being described. For example, there have been several Accentual Koto's described as AK #1, AK #2, etc. I guess the cross that created Accentual Koto (thorellii X X Hookeriana) is what the orchid hybridizers call a grex- similar to a surname. All crosses between thorellii and hookeriana would be a grex called Accentual Koto, since the cross was first named and published as such, and a notable individual would be given a first name. I'm not sure of what the final full name would be, but it seems to make sense that where many numbered individuals from a cross has already been published that ICPS should consider the status of grexes. Jan, what are your thoughts on this? I am preparing a list of all the kotos so that the database can be updated as these crosses seem to satisfy the criteria of a published description (even though they're in Japanese and I can't read them). Regards, Leo Leo C. Song, Jr. Biological Sciences; P.O. Box 6850 California State University Fullerton CA 92834-6850 vox:714/278-2766 res:714/578-0609 e-mail:LeoSong@Fullerton.edu http://nsm.fullerton.edu/biogh/greenhouse.html "Knowledge is not knowledge unless it is shared" (Tao of L. Song) ################### From: Roberto Devoti Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:50:14 +0100 Subject: Re: CP Of Australia Vol 1 Hi all, Derek Glidden wrote: > It's called "Supply and demand." If you're willing to only pay > cover price, and I'm willing to pay $150, guess who the owner of the > book is going to sell it to? :) That are marketing rules. As far as I know the only source for getting Lowrie's Vol. 1 is Colin Clayton at Triffid Park, a CP supplier in Australia. I met Colin Clayton last July and he has a number of new soft and hard cover books. But you have to pay 1000 AU$ for one copy! This is the current price for that book. I asked him: who is willing to pay so much? and he said that japanese are good customers... Nevertheless if you are on the way to Australia you can try to negotiate the price directly and perhaps you can obtain a cash discount! ...sob... -- Roberto Devoti Telespazio SpA Via Tiburtina 965 00156 Roma, Italy Work Phone: +39-6-40793329 FAX: +39-6-40796202 e-mail: roberto@caronte.mt.asi.it ################### From: "Ivan X Lim" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:49:04 +0900 Subject: Revenge of the insect prey I just read the following excerpt from from the CACTI_ETC mailing list 1397. So I was just wondering if any of you had a similar experience of the insect prey emerging victorious over the plants. I lost one of my VFT's as a result of a really rare/strange twist of fate. I was looking at my plants one day when I noticed one of them not looking particularly healthy. Upon closer inspection of the leaves, I found that even healthy looking ones detach very easily when tuggged gently. Suspecting rot, I unearthed the plant from its peat medium & found the rhizome infested with fly larvae!! They were eating my plant alive & caused the rhizome to rot :(!! I could only speculate that some fly that my plant caught must've been abt to lay its load of larvae when it got trapped. Then the larvae escaped before the trap fully closed on them, found their way to the rhizome & decided to make it their home. Thank goodness, this is not an everyday occurence. But I'm just curious to find out if I'm the only one. Happy growing :) Ivan >------------------------------ > >Topic No. 7 > >Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:25:13 EST >From: MKimnach@aol.com >To: cacti_etc@opus.hpl.hp.com >Subject: Re: Fungus gnat (sciarid fly) control >Message-ID: <2113c997.34eda05c@aol.com > > Sundews (Drosera species) are great for catching fungus-gnats, which get trapped on >the sticky leaves. However, when we had a nice collection of insectivorous plants at the >Huntington some years ago, the larvae of the gnats thrived in the wet sphagnum in which we >grew the insectivorous plants and they constantly attacked the roots of the plants. So we >had a real battle going on, with the sundew leaves covered with dying or dead gnats and the >roots being eaten by the larvae. Finally the gnats won and we gave up on insectivorous >plants. > > I use those yellow sticky pieces of cardboard (available from nursery supply >companies) to trap the gnats. The surface becomes thickly covered with them, though the >critters are never eradicated completely. A very weak dose of liquid diazinone has cleared >up some infestations I had in cultures of fern sporelings, though I find that a baggie over >the top of the pot, with a rubberband just under the rim to seal it, keeps them out. > > > Myron Kimnach. > >------------------------------ ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:15:06 -0000 Subject: Drosera occidentalis subspecies identification/UK climate zones I find it difficult to tell the two D occidentalis subspecies apart in cultivation (cue for the cynics to say that it's because they're the same). However I noticed this year that material I would expect to belong to ssp occidentalis push their gemmae upwards in a column whereas material that I would expect to belong to ssp australis forms the more usual open mound of gemmae in the centre of the plant. Does this happen in other people's collections, and in the wild? Unfortunately Lowrie's vol II doesn't show occidentalis in gemmae production. Interestingly, the 'Lake Badgerup' hybrid also tries rather feebly to push its gemmae upwards, which could be construed as weak corroboration that Lowrie is correct in his assertion about its occidentalis parent. I seem to remember someone summarising the UK climate zones to the list last year, but I can't find the digest. Could whoever sent it e-mail it to me privately please. Thanks, NigelH ################### From: Roberto Devoti Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:42:02 +0100 Subject: CP Of Australia Vol 1 Hi all, Derek Glidden wrote: > It's called "Supply and demand." If you're willing to only pay > cover price, and I'm willing to pay $150, guess who the owner of the > book is going to sell it to? :) This are marketing rules. As far as I know the only source for getting Lowrie's Vol. 1 is Colin Clayton at Triffid Park, a CP supplier in Australia. I met Colin Clayton last July and he has a number of new soft and hard cover books. But you have to pay 1000 AU$ for one copy! This is the current price for that book. I asked him: who is willing to pay so much? and he said that japanese are good customers... Nevertheless if you are on the way to Australia you can try to negotiate the price directly and perhaps you can obtain a cash discount! ...sob... -- Roberto Devoti Telespazio SpA Via Tiburtina 965 00156 Roma, Italy Work Phone: +39-6-40793329 FAX: +39-6-40796202 e-mail: roberto@caronte.mt.asi.it ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:26:00 -0500 Subject: RE: VFT Flower! > Also, my VFT ate it's first meal of '98 today- a wayward bathroom spider somehow >got into the Klima-gro... well okay... I helped. great big laugh. I bet you used those Dixie Cups, or is that just your wife's method. I love it Paul when you admit stuff like this. Reminds me of the little boy (or girl) in all of us. David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:12:00 -0500 Subject: FW: a few questions. >First I seem to have a bit of a smiley green algae sort of build up on the top >of my plants potted in peat & spagnham moss in my greenhouse.... would anyone >have any suggestions please. Spray with 1 tablespoon of grocery store vinegar mixed in 1 quart of water. Drosera are sensitive to this solution so don't make it stronger. Another option is to grind up pine straw or any plant material that has terpines (most fir type trees) in it and sprinkle over the slime. Your eucolytic (sp?) tree might work here as a substitute. Physan also kills algae but I do not know if it's safe for cp's. >Also I have a S. Oreophilla x Leucophylla which has been sending out dummy >pitchers (like the winter pitchers half the full size with a very small unformed hood >, whole blade bending backwards) since about October & I can't work out why. >... humidity / water seems ok & is getting lots of light in the greenhouse, >it's still Summer here. Any ideas? This is normal oreophilla behavior and rather common for flava, too, which is a very close relative. S. oreophilla habitat (a few hundred miles north of the typical habitat for most Sarr (for instance, leucophylla, flava, alata, psittacina, purpurea venosa) experiences short periods of drought in the summer. Summer rains occur as afternoon showers from the evaporating moisture due to the heat. The weather men (sorry ladies) refer to them as popcorn showers because it will rain in one location but not in another just a few miles away. This leads to a pronounce drying in most areas. In adapting to this environment, S. oreophilla grows very fast in the usually wet spring with lots of pitcher formation and slows down in the summer. (I see this also in my S. flava, lots of pitcher production in spring but little in summer.) Because oreophilla's environment tends to dry out in the summer, it has learned (excuse me, evolved) to produce phyllodia much earlier than other phyllodia-producing Sarr. It's a protective mechanism. It also makes oreophylla great as a hybrid because it's programmed for fast growth in the summer. >I guess at this stage I should just let it go dormant & hope that it will come back as it >should in Spring. My suggestion is to keep it moist and let it do what it wants to do. Who knows, the leuco side may come back in the later part of summer and make it produce a fall pitcher. David ################### From: John Walker Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:06:05 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re:VFT Andrew At 07:58 PM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote: >Spring is a good time to transplant, diluted liquid fertilizer ( two days >in a row over middle of Venus) stimulates new hairs on the roots after >move. If Venus starts to dry out, it needs water over roots. If traps >turn black to much water. Keeping them alive is easier when you keeps a >plastic dome over the plant and some of these unwanted condition will >stop also. ****************************** I have seen several posts to this list over the last couple of years promoting the application of diluted fertilizer on VFTs. I have never had anything but bad results when trying this myself and have quit experimenting. Has anyone really had any luck mixing VFTs and any kind of fertilizer? Regards, John in Phoenix ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:09:30 -0700 Subject: Re: On Cultivars Peter D'Amato writes: >So far, ICPS only registers CULTIVARS, and not simply new crosses, as does >more organized and established hobbies as orchids. When a new hybrid is >produced, if it is the first time such a cross was made, then it should be >published and registered with a fancy non-Latin name. Thereafter, anyone >duplicating the cross would always call it by that name. This brings up a question I have wondered for some time and not being very familiar with this topic I thought I would pose here. I can see giving names to first generation hybrids. However, once one starts to cross plants that are themselves hybrids, there should in theory be significant variation in the offspring. I wonder how useful the name will be in the face of this variation. Is this one of those cases where there is a lot of "theoretical variation" but in practice all (for example) (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x formosa) crosses look pretty much the same? On a related note. Are many of the morphologic characters of Nepenthes sex linked? If they are, then it seems that having different names for essentially the same cross (only by opposite sexed parents) makes sense. If not, it seems to me to only add a layer of unnecessary confusion. Anyone know how the orchid growers handle these situations? Rich ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:25:43 -0800 (PST) Subject: registration of new crosses, Hi folks, I have several new crosses, made a few years ago that are now reasonably good sized. What do I need to do, and who do I need to write to to register these properly. Thank-you! Andrew ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:05:31 Subject: Re: registration of new crosses, Dear Andrew, > I have several new crosses, made a few years ago that are now > reasonably good sized. What do I need to do, and who do I need to write > to to register these properly. I assume you wnat to describe individual plants as cultivars (not the crosses themselves as taxa). 1. Identify the features that distinguish your plants from others. 2. Write descriptions of each plant you want to name. These descriptions should be detailed enough to allow judgement if a given plant belongs to the respective cultivar or not. 3. Make good colour photographs of each plant, showing the *distinctive* features. 4. Identify the originator/introducer (the person who made the cross or collected it from the wild), nominant (the person who chose the name), and registrant (the person who submitted the description) of the new cultivars and the respective dates (at least the years). The names of new cultivars must be compatible with the ICNCP. 5. Publish the descriptions in a horticultural journal. This journal may be CPN but does not necessarily need to be so. 6. Submit the descriptions, pictures, and additional data (cf. ICNCP, Instructions for IRAs) to CPN (and only CPN) for registration. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:08:10 Subject: Re: On Cultivars Dear Rich, > However, once > one starts to cross plants that are themselves hybrids, there > should in theory be significant variation in the offspring. Why? A breeder does not cross populations with populations but individuals with individuals. The variation in each hybrid generation is always between the two parents that constitute the extreme poles of the range. > I wonder > how useful the name will be in the face of this variation. Exactly as useful as in the parent generation. > Is this > one of those cases where there is a lot of "theoretical variation" > but in practice all (for example) (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x formosa) > crosses look pretty much the same? You do not talk about cultivars in this case. Both hybrids are taxa, and at least theoretically, the complex hybrid is again a taxon. This latter taxon will include all intermediates between the species involved (_S.leucophylla, minor, psittacina, purpurea_). > On a related note. Are many of the morphologic characters of > Nepenthes sex linked? Comparatively little is known about that. _Nepenthes_ hybrids are mostly intermediate between the parents. > If they are, then it seems that having > different names for essentially the same cross (only by opposite > sexed parents) makes sense. Not at all if they are treated as taxa. In this case, the direction (and any repetitions) of the cross is entirely immaterial. > If not, it seems to me to only add a layer of unnecessary > confusion. Not if the plants are described as cultivars. Cultivars are always selections. They do not automatically include all individuals with the same or similar parentage, so principally any plant can be selected as a cultivar irrespective of its similarity to any other cultivar. > Anyone know how the orchid growers handle these situations? In much the same manner as any other growers. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:06:23 Subject: Re: CP # 1366 Crosses Dear Leo & al., > For example, there have been several Accentual Koto's described as > AK #1, AK #2, etc. I guess the cross that created Accentual Koto > (thorellii X X Hookeriana) is what the orchid hybridizers call a grex- > similar to a surname. All crosses between thorellii and hookeriana would > be a grex called Accentual Koto, since the cross was first named and > published as such, and a notable individual would be given a first name. I do not think that Accentual Koto was established as a cultivar group epithet. I rather suspect that several different clones constitute the cultivar _Nepenthes_ 'Accentual Koto'. So the situation does not seem to be similar to the orchid grex nomenclature. > I'm not sure of what the final full name would be It would be _Nepenthes_ 'Accentual Koto'. For each plant *and* for the whole group of these plants. They are apparently all *one* cultivar. > , but it seems to make > sense that where many numbered individuals from a cross has already been > published that ICPS should consider the status of grexes. > Jan, what are your thoughts on this? The ICPS cannot consider greges because of nomenclatural reasons. Cps are not orchids, and grex nomenclature is limited to orchids. We can (and do) consider cultivar groups, which are comparable to greges in most practical respects. Kind regards Jan ################### From: draba@juno.com (Tina R Kesler) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:02:46 -0800 Subject: Questions regarding Nepenthes conservation If someone could help on the following questions I would be very grateful. What is the largest threat to Nepenthes in the wild? How long have Nepenthes been considered threatened? What are some solutions to save these genera? What organization are working directly to save them and their habitat? Is cultivation of the plants helping in the preservation of them in wild? If so, how? Sincerely, Tina Kesler ################### From: Ide Laurent Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 14:20:25 +0100 Subject: Seeking Hi list Seems Paul has the Tchernobyl-mutant VFT. So, I had no success in trying to reach the famous Philippe Wauters I'm seeking for. Numerous messages, posted here and in other places, were vain. I'm trying another way. Does anyone know the adress, in Liege, Belgium, probably the university, where TC CP (tississipee) are availble ? They should have his address. Why am I looking for this lucky guy ? He bought there boxes with TC Cephalotus(es), tuberous droseras and many others for about 13 $, each one containing about 30 plants. We had to exchange viable plants after acclimatation to normal growing conditions. Wanna know this address ! Please please please ! Laurent ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 23 Feb 98 16:58 EST Subject: Re: Re:VFT Andrew > Has anyone really had any luck mixing VFTs and any kind of fertilizer? I haven't, John. They should be fed. Dave Evans ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:05:13 -0700 Subject: Re: On Cultivars (and Taxa) Jan, >> However, once >> one starts to cross plants that are themselves hybrids, there >> should in theory be significant variation in the offspring. > >Why? A breeder does not cross populations with populations but >individuals with individuals. The variation in each hybrid generation >is always between the two parents that constitute the extreme poles >of the range. First, I am assuming that the intraspecies genetic variation is significantly less than the interspecies genetic variation. Using the example I cited of (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x formosa), for any given gene, S. x mitchelliana will have a S. purpurea allele and a S. leucophylla allele which I will designate as LP (I'm assuming this is an F1 cross) while S. x formosa will have a S. minor allele and a S. psittacina allele which I'll designate as MPs. Now, if we cross these two plants we have 4 possible combinations LM, LPs, PM, PPs. If this gene affects something like say pitcher height then the variation between LM and PPs could be dramatic. I think this is analagous to why F1 hybrids are quite consistent in appearance while F2 hybrids will have much greater variation. >> Is this >> one of those cases where there is a lot of "theoretical variation" >> but in practice all (for example) (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x >formosa) >> crosses look pretty much the same? > >You do not talk about cultivars in this case. Both hybrids are taxa, >and at least theoretically, the complex hybrid is again a taxon. This >latter taxon will include all intermediates between the species >involved (_S.leucophylla, minor, psittacina, purpurea_). True, I am not talking about cultivars in this case (or above). And I think I am questioning the usfullness of giving a name to a group of plants that includes all intermediates between those 4 species. If my understanding of cultivar is correct, there should be no genetic variation of cultivars (or the only genetic variation should be from spontaneous mutation of the cells that allow asexual reproduction?) > >> On a related note. Are many of the morphologic characters of >> Nepenthes sex linked? If they are, then it seems that having >> different names for essentially the same cross (only by opposite >> sexed parents) makes sense. > >Not at all if they are treated as taxa. In this case, the direction >(and any repetitions) of the cross is entirely immaterial. Perhaps this example will elucidate my confusion: Are N. x wrigleyana and N. x coccinea examples of taxa or cultivars or neither? I was thinking these were considered taxa and the only difference between them was the sex of the parents. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:55:35 EST Subject: Re: M&M Behavior If you have sink dish washing liquid (Ivory, Dove etc.) and some corn cooking oil. 1 tablespoon of soap, two tablespoons cooking oil in one gallon of water. good for spraying on leaves soil and gets rid of slim. ################### From: AL850R Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 18:29:19 +0900 Subject: SLACK'S BOOKS, CP BOOKS FOR SALE Hi CP enthusiasts, I am selling four books: "Carnivorous Plants", by Adrian Slack - Copyright 1979. Great condition. No bents, scratches, etc. "Insect-Eating plants and how to grow them", by Adrian Slack Copyright - 1986. EXCELLECNT condition. Very nicely taken care of by library. Well-written and nice pictures. "Cultivating Carnivorous Plants", by Allan A. Swenson - Copyright 1977 Good condition. Minor wrinkle line on outer edge. "Carnivorous Plants: care and Cultivation", by Marcel Lecoufle - Copyright 1990. Excellent condition. Very nice color pictures. "The Carnivorous Plants", by Francis Ernest Lloyd - Copyright 1976 Pretty good condition. Minor tear on hardcover bottom right. Whoever bids the highest will receive the book. I am located in California. This will take 11/2 weeks. Sorry if there is any inconvenience. Thanks, -Andrew- ################### From: "Michael Reardon" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:26:06 +1000 Subject: Re: Harmful prey Stefan P. Wolf wrote: > > I don't know about Lady Bugs but I kept a VFT alive for years > > feeding it almost entirely on Wood Louse - it thrived on them. > > Okay, I am convinced. I will feed one or two to my VFT now - stay > tuned! . . . . . . . . . . Arggggghhhhh! It wasn't as easy as I > thought as they are damned hard! I feed with tweezers and they...... > > [ ....cut.... ] > > Result: > ------- > VFT - I managed to get two in + two empty closed traps :-( > Ceph - One balanced on the brink and slipped into the pitcher > (I really missed a audible "plop" :-))) > Tank - One escaped in the tank :-((( > > Oh, by the way: what killed your VFT after 4 years??? > Me, plus a subtle blend of tap water, mould and too small a pot. Basically, my lack of knowledge of VFT. Michael ################### From: "Chin-Wee LEE" Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 21:33:00 PST Subject: Nep. temperature ranges on Mt. Kinabalu Hello CP fans I am trying to find the average lows and average highs of different elevations of Nepenthes mountain ranges. Since most of the mountains are in the same general geographical area, I would assume that the temps for different elevations will "generally" be the same. For those people who have first hand information making field observations on trips to Mt. Kinabalu and/or surrounding Nep. mountain ranges, I would really appreciate any input (since I have not been fortunate enough to experience it first handedly). I am looking for the average lows and highs of various elevations. (Assuming the lows are during the night and the highs are during the day.) I have read various books re:temp but most of which provided minimums and maximums of various elevations. Since these are the extremes, I highly doubt they are of most favorable conditions for the plants. If possible, the ranges I am interested in are: 0-1000, 1000-1500, 1500-2000, 2000-2500, 2500-3000, 3000-3500. Please reply to the listserve if the information will benefit other CPers. Thank you in advance. Sincerely, CWLee Papa Smurf always said, "If you don't succeed, try and try again." I like to believe he was refering to growing CPs. :) ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:57:10 EST Subject: Re: John in Phoenix John you are right, if that is all that you do, Venus is a very mysterious creature, plus the fact the plants in the plastic tubs have a multiplying agent, that takes it from the rizone in the test tube to many plants, and so far to get the plant to live through the muck nats (not using this as a cop out,I agree it's not what we're talking about) is also challenging but can be done. Some of the Venuses that I have, have gone through two Winters, but they were put in the top of a 5 gallon,Tri-Pure water bottle with pure pete in the bottom, put in with mostly root exposed then the roots were pushed into pete with water to top of medium, a drop of diluted fertilizer water and later some diluted baking soda water. (Now live Spagnium want to grow in the same spot) I have given away a few Venuses, diluted fert. treated, that were raffled off at some Carnivorous meetings I have attended or giving to our meeting, visitors. Don't know about anybody else's experiences with this baking soda water, with one exception Carl maintains that it breaks down the pete to quickly, not one of my establish Carnivorous plant, have bit the dust, with the exception of Utric's (the mixture that I use could kill the bugs that the bladders like to suck in). Plus the survival rate on Carnivorous transplants is much, much higher, One Exception on Utric's where some Sandersonii in a bog laced with baking soda that was put on display at the Tampa FL County Fair. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:24:25 Subject: Re: On Cultivars (and Taxa) Dear Richard, > I think this is analagous to why F1 hybrids are quite consistent > in appearance while F2 hybrids will have much greater variation. This is correct. Nevertheless, the variation is still within given limits (it does not reach *beyond* the species involved). This is the essential point for taxonomic considerations. > >> Is this > >> one of those cases where there is a lot of "theoretical variation" > >> but in practice all (for example) (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x > >> formosa) crosses look pretty much the same? > > > >You do not talk about cultivars in this case. Both hybrids are taxa, > >and at least theoretically, the complex hybrid is again a taxon. This > >latter taxon will include all intermediates between the species > >involved (_S.leucophylla, minor, psittacina, purpurea_). > > True, I am not talking about cultivars in this case (or above). And > I think I am questioning the usfullness of giving a name to a group > of plants that includes all intermediates between those 4 species. But this is essentially what a taxon of the given parentage would do (whether sensible or not). > If my understanding of cultivar is correct, there should > be no genetic variation of cultivars (or the only genetic variation > should be from spontaneous mutation of the cells that allow asexual > reproduction?) In an ideal world, this would be correct. There is no life without genetic variation, however. > >> On a related note. Are many of the morphologic characters of > >> Nepenthes sex linked? If they are, then it seems that having > >> different names for essentially the same cross (only by opposite > >> sexed parents) makes sense. > > > >Not at all if they are treated as taxa. In this case, the direction > >(and any repetitions) of the cross is entirely immaterial. > > Perhaps this example will elucidate my confusion: Are > N. x wrigleyana and N. x coccinea examples of taxa or cultivars > or neither? I was thinking these were considered taxa and the > only difference between them was the sex of the parents. Both belong to the same taxon (not cultivar) and are later synonyms of N. * stewartii. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 08:38:02 Subject: Re: Questions regarding Nepenthes conservation Dear Tina, > What is the largest threat to Nepenthes in the wild? Politically protected deforestation. > How long have Nepenthes been considered threatened? Depends on perspective. At least since 25 years. > What are some solutions to save these genera? Drastic political/economic change. > What organization are working directly to save them and their habitat? None. The IUCN tries at least to highlight the threat. This did not change much directly. > Is cultivation of the plants helping in the preservation of them in > wild? If so, how? Difficult to answer. As long as cultivation is dependent on the supply from the wild, the calculation is rather problematic. In vitro propagation of some species did certainly relieve the pressure on these in the wild. There are, however, still a number of "outlaw" collectors around. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "j.m.haddon" Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:12:55 GMT+0 Subject: Propagator Hi all, I just made a great terrarium. First I purchased a propagator from Morrisons plc (UK supermarket) it is made by Midland Oak or some such company. Next I took and old fish tank out of the attic. The lid of the propagator as it happened fitted exactly on top of the tank making a tall terrarium. I never thought about using propagator lids before Lights can easily be fitted and the sliding vents give some control over the temp/humidity. Yours JoHn ################### From: MOveson@faegre.com Date: 24 Feb 98 10:56:12 CST Subject: N. bicalcarata I was recently at Orchids Limited in Minneapolis, and they have a bunch of this plant for sale. I think it is not cheap. Their number is (800) 669-6006. Mark Oveson Faegre & Benson LLP; Denver, Colorado Phone: (303) 820-0681; Fax: (303) 820-0600 moveson@faegre.com ################### From: MOveson@faegre.com Date: 24 Feb 98 11:18:13 CST Subject: Hybrid/cultivar naming Richard Ellis wrote: > I can see giving names to first generation hybrids. However, once > one starts to cross plants that are themselves hybrids, there > should in theory be significant variation in the offspring. I wonder > how useful the name will be in the face of this variation. Is this > one of those cases where there is a lot of "theoretical variation" > but in practice all (for example) (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x formosa) > crosses look pretty much the same? > On a related note. Are many of the morphologic characters of > Nepenthes sex linked? If they are, then it seems that having > different names for essentially the same cross (only by opposite > sexed parents) makes sense. If not, it seems to me to only add > a layer of unnecessary confusion. > Anyone know how the orchid growers handle these situations? You ask some interesting questions, Richard. As an orchid grower, maybe I can help to answer them. First a little background for those who might not be familiar with hybrid naming: Orchid hybrids and ( to some extent) cultivars have been registered since the 1800s with a central registry service in England. The first person to grow _and flower_ a new hybrid can register the cross with this central registry. For example, Paphiopedilum rothschildianum x Paph. philippinense is called Paph. St. Swithin. Hybrid names are distinguished from species names in three ways: First, they are capitalized; second, they are not italicized; and third, they are not Latin names (although rule #3 did not exist at first, and there are some early hybrids that are Latin sounding, like Paph. Houghtoniae). Hybrid names stick to any plant made from parents that are of the same species (or hybrids) of the parents of the original registered plant. This is true regardless of which plant is the pod parent and which is the pollen parent, though some orchid growers feel that the pod parent tends to be the more important influence on characteristics of the offspring. In other words, all plants that are Paph. rothschildianum x Paph. lowii _or_ Paph. lowii x Paph. rothschildianum are Paph. Julius, regardless of the quality or characteristics of the parents. This presents some interesting problems, which you have noted. For example, one popular cross is Paph. haynaldianum x Paph. primulinum, which has been registered as Paph. Henrietta Fujiwara. This hybrid was originally made using albino parents, so Henrietta Fujiwara flowers are expected to be green and white. I happen to have one (blooming right now, in fact) that was made with non-alba parents. The flowers are similar in shape to others I have seen, but are yellow, pink, and tan with some purple spotting. To avoid confusion, I describe the plant to other growers as a "non-alba Henrietta Fujiwara" (try saying that ten times fast). The short answer is that species may be variable, but hybrids (as you guessed) are much more so. As you also guessed, the variability increases as hybrids become more complex. Orchid growers partially solve this problem by naming cultivars. If a plant produces particularly nice flowers, the grower can give it a cultivar name, which is listed in single quotation marks, like this: Phalaenopsis Orchid World 'Bonnie Vasquez'. If this plant is awarded by one of the recognized orchid societies (such as the American Orchid Society), then the cultivar name can also be registered with the central registry, and the name then appears with the award listed after it like this: Phal. Orchid World 'Bonnie Vasquez' AM/AOS (meaning this plant received an Award of Merit from the American Orchid Society). This particular plant has been extensively tissue cultured, so anyone who wants one can just call up the maker of it and get one. This makes it possible to get a hybrid that is exactly what you expect. Now let's say I wanted to make a cross between this particular plant and a species, like Phal. venosa, and let's also assume this cross has never been flowered (I have no idea if this cross has been made). I could make the cross and sell the seedlings labelled Phal. (Orchid World 'Bonnie Vasquez' AM/AOS x venosa). People buying my plants would have a good idea what the offspring might look like, because they've seen 'Bonnie Vasquez' and they know what Phal. venosa looks like. But as you pointed out, the offspring of these parents will be somewhat variable. For this reason, many orchid growers will buy a "community pot" of the offspring, which might contain 15 or 20 tiny seedlings. They will then grow the seedlings, flower them out, and keep the best ones. They might then give cultivar names to these good ones, perhaps try to get them awarded, and so the cycle continues. Perhaps the biggest problem with this system is that, absent knowledge of the grower and/or the cultivars used as parents, you might pay a lot for junky plants. For instance, Phal. Orchid World is a very popular complex hybrid that was line-bred for several generations, using high-quality parents to produce a really nice, large, yellow flower with deep red barring. Several Orchid World cultivars have been awarded. An unscrupulous grower might recreate Orchid World using inferior parents, then offer them for sale to the public. The flowers may look nothing like 'Bonnie Vasquez' or any of the other Orchid Worlds offered by reputable growers. The solution to this problem is to know your growers, and only buy from those who are reputable. You might ask the grower about the quality of the parents of the subject plant. Were they awarded cultivars? In reality, this is not much of a problem, because it is so difficult to propagate orchids that few people bother to do it except with high-quality parents. So though a lot of variability exists, most of the plants end up producing pretty good flowers. >From what little I know of CP, it seems they are much easier to >propagate than orchids are, so this may become a bigger problem in the CP world. I think it is important for this reason to have a reliable system for registering CP cultivar names, and the problem of variability in hybrids can be minimized by such a system. The system of naming and awarding orchids has had negative effects, as well, including high prices for plants and snobby attitudes among certain growers. But this post is already four times as long as I intended it to be. Happy growing (and naming). Mark Oveson Faegre & Benson LLP; Denver, Colorado Phone: (303) 820-0681; Fax: (303) 820-0600 moveson@faegre.com ################### From: L Douglas Berry Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 15:45:08 -0500 Subject: Mailing list I just got some cp's and told my biology teacher. I plan to build a greenhouse and fill it full of cp's. My biology teacher (Kevin Jones) told me this e-mail and told me to write to get on a daily mailing list. I would appreciate it if you wouldput me on your mailing list. I would also appreciate if you could give some places where I could buy some cp's. I am interested in all species, especially: sarracenia, napenthes, and drosera. I thank you for letting me be in your mailing list. My e-mail address is: ldberry@oburg.net Adam Berry Adam Berry ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 22:58:14 +0000 Subject: Help! Hi, While installing new internet software I inadvertently overwrote my address book. Can anyone who I regularly (or even infrequently) communicates with drop me a quick mail (privately not via this list). The software will do the rest and put them back in my address book whether they like it or not. :-) Also if anyone is expecting a response from me can they also mail me as I have lost a few mails as well. Thanks. -- Phil Wilson ################### From: CALIFCARN@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:41:25 EST Subject: Re: krazy kultivar konfusion Greetings folks; Peter D'Amato here. I laughed and cried reading all this stuff on cultivars, and am happy to see that others are as konfused as I am. No doubt much of our baffled state is due to the fact that we often try imitating what orchid growers do, and no information for CPs in general have been available. First of all, concerning the Japanese hybrids Leo spoke about: unless I'm mistaken, the Koto crosses were all "hybrid group" names, given to all the seedlings of each cross. Then, as Leo states, certain individuals were numbered to give them a "cultivar" status. Jan states that I was incorrect in saying that ICPS never took on publication of "group names" of first time crosses, and refers us to Fleming's article in ICPS l979. This article is actually a rundown of Nepenthes hybrids done in the 19th and early 20th century, long before ICPS was begun. ICPS has only solicited "cultivars", and here we may simply be dealing with a misinterpretation of terms, for as far as I and all other CP growers have been concerned, a "cultivar" was an individual plant so desirable it should only be propagated vegatatively. "Group names" have never been published, to my knowledge, in ICPS. What I was urging in my previous statement was that we follow a format similar to what was done in the l800s, (although as Fleming points out in his article, even then this was not always followed), that when a cross was done, it would be given a group name by which all duplicate crosses would then be known. Any outstanding individuals of these crosses could then be elevated to a "cultivar" status, thereafter only to be duplicated vegatatively. There are two reasons for doing so, in my opinion, no matter what format we choose to follow. The first is that our hybrids, let's say in Sarracenia, are becoming so complex that to call them by their ancestry would entail a tag with six or eight or a dozen names on it. A group name for specific crosses would greatly simplify the matter. The second reason pertains to what we have always called "cultivar". When people see a plant like S. x 'Sultry Maid' or S. x 'Judith Hindle', they want that specific plant, and not some brother or sister who may look somewhat different. When I chose and named S. x 'Judith Hindle', it was from a cross that Alan Hindle in England had made, and I named only this one individual clone. I suggested to Alan that he name the group as a whole. Incidentally, the parentage of the plant was not duplicated exactly as I had sent it in to ICPS, as S. x 'Judith Hindle' was begotten by the crossing of TWO seperate plants that had purpurea, flava and leucophylla in them. After publication, I noticed an Australian nursery had for sale SEED of S. x 'Judith Hindle'. When I spoke to Alan about this, he admitted that he had given seed of this plant to an individual who had to his horror distributed them as the said cultivar. While some of these plants may look similar to the cultivar, they are not that plant. In my opinion, and most other CP growers, cultivars should only be reproduced vegatatively. When I mentioned that people may start committing suicide if they took on the task of tracing all hybrids done in order to give them "group names", I meant it. While Jan claims that ICPS has always accepted "group hybrids" , he interprets these as being "cultivar groups", a term, while probably correct according to law, was never used in ICPS, which as I stated above only registered "cultivars". I'm glad that finally all of this is being discussed in the hope that ICPS can perhaps finally come up with its own rules on this whole matter, rather than borrowing what other plant growers do. I've had previous discussions on this problem with other people like Larry Mellichamp and Trent Meeks and Leo and Joe Mazrimas, too. Since Jan seems to know what he's talking about, maybe he can direct us towards something we all can understand and follow. Th-th-th-th that's all folks, for now. Peter ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 17:10:14 -0700 Subject: Re: On Cultivars (and Taxa) Dear Jan, Thank you for taking the time to answer questions from a non-botanist who sometimes finds the world of taxonomy bewildering. I think this will be my last question/clarification before I let this thread die. However I want to make sure I understand the concept of a taxon as it applies to man made hybrids. > >> Example of (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x formosa) > > > >You do not talk about cultivars in this case. Both hybrids are taxa, > >and at least theoretically, the complex hybrid is again a taxon. This > >latter taxon will include all intermediates between the species > >involved (_S.leucophylla, minor, psittacina, purpurea_). If we were to give a name to the taxon formed by (S. x mitchelliana) x (S. x formosa), would a plant with the parentage of ((S. leucophylla x S. minor) x (S. psittacina x S. purpurea)) be a member? It seems to me the offspring would be indistinguishable. What about (((S. x mitchelliana ) x S. minor) x S. psittacina) which would also be intermediate between the 4 species but probably show more S. psittacina characteristics? Thanks for your patience. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: Palindro Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:59:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: Need help with soil acidity I have some Sarracenia purpurea and Diodaea that I will be propagating soon and I have concerns about the planting medium. I will be using live spahgnum moss but I don't know whether or not to be concerned about the acidity. I don't know how to measure the PH, much less change it. I would appreciate any guidance in how to proceed. Thanks - Palindro ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 22:38:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Cultivar Confusion Trent here in the office. I've been following this hybrid string now for three days and now I'm ready to jump in. First of all. Thank you Mark Oveson for the fabulous description of how orchid hybrid naming works. I am/was an orchid grower before I picked up on Nepenthes and CP in general. Your description was not too long but a well stated document on a very logical nomenclature for hybrids. I see no reason why this methodology cannot be applied to Nepenthes. The Japaneses growers do something like this. N. Rokko is not a cultivar, as there are male and female plants, indicating it is a hybrid name. Leo's posting about the Koto crosses also indicates this. The entire grex is given a name, and then individual plants are numbered. These numbered plants are the cultivars. Those two bad boys of Nepenthes, Clyde Bramblett and especially Bruce Bednar, name their crosses, and published them in the CP Digest back in the early nineties, as they were told to do- back then. Bruce's hybrid N. Excellens has produced some great cultivars, namely N. Excellens "Jessica Laureen", N. Excellens"Superba", and one beautiful clone that has not yet been named. One important advantage to this method is the hybrid name immediately tells the parentage. N. Excellens is (N. Rokko X N. Mixta) This is a lot easier and just as succunct as saying ((N. thorelii X N. maxima) X (N. northiana X N. maxima)). Now, what I am calling a "hybrid name", as described above; is this the same thing as a "cultivar group"? Or, is a "cultivar group" basically the Japanese method, ie. everytime the cross is remade (same parents or different clones of same parents) the grex (the siblings) is given a different name. Example: N. Rokko, N. Balmy Koto, and N. Masamiae are all N. thorelii X N. maxima. ? Where hybids get complex, namely Sarracenia and Nepenthes, why not register the names of hybrids as well as distinctive cultivars? Okay Jan, I've planted both feet firmly on the ground and put on my flak jacket. Fire away. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:39:59 Subject: On Hybrid Taxa Dear Richard, > If we were to give a name to the taxon formed by (S. x mitchelliana) x > (S. x formosa), would a plant with the parentage of ((S. leucophylla x S. > minor) x (S. psittacina x S. purpurea)) > be a member? Yes. > What about > (((S. x mitchelliana ) x S. minor) x S. psittacina) which would also be > intermediate between the 4 species but probably show more S. psittacina > characteristics? This would also belong to the same taxon. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:24:18 Subject: Re: Hybrid/cultivar naming Dear Mark, > From what little I know of CP, it seems they are much easier to > propagate than orchids are, so this may become a bigger problem in the > CP world. I think it is important for this reason to have a reliable > system for registering CP cultivar names, and the problem of > variability in hybrids can be minimized by such a system. The system to be followed is the ICNCP. Only for orchids, there are some special provisions within the ICNCP. Principally, all cultivar names have to be registered in order to be established, irrespective of awards. Only established names should be used in the trade. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:45:29 Subject: Re: Cultivars Dear Peter, I cannot see any great confusion so far, only a few minor misconceptions. > First of all, concerning the Japanese hybrids Leo spoke about: > unless > I'm mistaken, the Koto crosses were all "hybrid group" names, given to > all the seedlings of each cross. Then, as Leo states, certain > individuals were numbered to give them a "cultivar" status. First of all, I do not think this is the case. AFAIK, no cultivar group designations (or greges) have ever been published in the Koto series. All these hybrids named are, therefore, to be treated as cultivars. > Jan states that I was incorrect in saying that ICPS never took on > publication of "group names" of first time crosses, and refers us to > Fleming's article in ICPS l979. This article is actually a rundown of > Nepenthes hybrids done in the 19th and early 20th century, long before > ICPS was begun. ICPS has only solicited "cultivars", and here we may > simply be dealing with a misinterpretation of terms, for as far as I > and all other CP growers have been concerned, a "cultivar" was an > individual plant so desirable it should only be propagated > vegatatively. "Group names" have never been published, to my > knowledge, in ICPS. They have been published even after 1979 under the (then valid, now illegitimate) name of greges by J.T.Robinson in a series of cultivar descriptions in CPN (Journal of the ICPS). > What I was urging in my previous statement was that we follow > a format similar to what was done in the l800s, (although as > Fleming points out in his article, even then this was not always > followed), There was no standard format for the nomenclature of cultivated plants in the 1800s. > that when a cross was done, > it would be given a group name by which all duplicate crosses would then be > known. What you mean here is a hybrid taxon (to include all offspring involving the same parent species) or a cultivar group (to include at least one named cultivar). > Any outstanding individuals of these crosses could then be elevated > to a "cultivar" status, Not in the case of a cultivar group. In this case, you must have a cultivar first. > thereafter only to be duplicated vegatatively. Cultivars do not necessarily need to be clones (ICNCP Art.2.6.). They may be clones (Art.2.7.), topophysic clones (Art.2.8.), cyclophysic clones (Art.2.9.), derived from aberrant growth (2.10.), graft- chimaeras (2.11.), assemblages grown from seed derived from uncontrolled pollination (2.12.), lines (2.13.), multilines (2.14.), F1 hybrids (2.15.), assemblages grown from seed from a particular provenance (2.16.), or assemblages of genetically modified plants (2.17.). The ultimate killer of the clone dogma is Art. 2.18.: "In considering whether two or more groups of cultivated plants belong to the same or different cultivars, the origin of each group is irrelevant. All indistinguishable variants, irrespective of their origin, are treated as one cultivar." (!) Anyway, it is (or will be) the policy of the ICPS to encourage registrants to define vegetative reproduction as the appropriate means for the propagation of carnivorous plant cultivars. > There are two reasons for doing so, in my opinion, no matter > what format > we choose to follow. The first is that our hybrids, let's say in > Sarracenia, are becoming so complex that to call them by their > ancestry would entail a tag with six or eight or a dozen names on it. > A group name for specific crosses would greatly simplify the matter. Yes. This is the reason why cultivar groups have been invented. > The second reason pertains to what we have always called > "cultivar". > When people see a plant like S. x 'Sultry Maid' or S. x 'Judith > Hindle', they want that specific plant, and not some brother or sister > who may look somewhat different. In the description of a cultivar, the appropriate method of propagation may (and should) be defined. Only plants that are derived from the original plant by this method (and, by virtue of Art.2.18., all plants that are "indistinguishable") belong to the cultivar. >(...) In my opinion, and most other CP growers, cultivars > should only be reproduced vegatatively. See Art.2.18. and the possibility to define appropriate methods of propagation. > When I mentioned that people may start committing suicide if > they took > on the task of tracing all hybrids done in order to give them "group > names", I meant it. While Jan claims that ICPS has always accepted > "group hybrids" , he interprets these as being "cultivar groups", a > term, while probably correct according to law, was never used in ICPS, > which as I stated above only registered "cultivars". See above. The groups introduced by Fleming and the greges introduced by Robinson are treated as cultivar groups. > I'm glad that finally all of this is being discussed in the hope that > ICPS can perhaps finally come up with its own rules on this whole matter, The ICPS will follow the ICNCP. > rather than borrowing what other plant growers do. I've had previous > discussions on this problem with other people like Larry Mellichamp > and Trent Meeks and Leo and Joe Mazrimas, too. Since Jan seems to > know what he's talking about, maybe he can direct us towards something > we all can understand and follow. ICNCP: Trehane, P., Brickell, C.D., Baum, B.R., Hetterscheid, W.L.A., Leslie, A.C., McNeill, J., Spongberg, S.A., Vrugtman, F. (1995) "International Code for the Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants - 1995", Quarterjack Publishing, Wimborne, UK Available through Koeltz Scientific Books (www.koeltz.com). DISCLAIMER: I am *not* affiliated with Koeltz in any way. The above paragraph is neutral information without any guarantee. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:20:03 Subject: Re: Cultivars Dear Trent, > I see no reason why this methodology cannot be applied to Nepenthes. Because _Nepenthes_ is not an orchid. Orchid nomenclature is older than cultivar nomenclature, and the historical heritage poses many problems with the ICNCP, some of which were quite appropriatley described by Mark. > > The Japaneses growers do something like this. N. Rokko is not a > cultivar, as there are male and female plants, indicating it is a hybrid > name. See my previous message in reply to Peter's one, especially my notes on Art.2.18 ICNCP. N. 'Rokko' is a not properly described (and therefore not established) cultivar name and nothing else. > Leo's posting about the Koto crosses also indicates this. I cannot discover anthing that would indicate this. > The entire grex is given a name, and then individual plants are > numbered. These numbered plants are the cultivars. No. The names are cultivar names. The numbers (no description involved, no standard, no registration) are bogus from a nomenclatural poin of view. > Those two bad boys of Nepenthes, Clyde Bramblett and especially Bruce > Bednar, name their crosses, and published them in the CP Digest back in > the early nineties, as they were told to do- back then. DISCLAIMER: Barry and I are CPN co-editors since 1997. None of us has told Bruce Badnar or Clyde Bramblett to do anything concerning publications in CPN before that year. > Bruce's hybrid > N. Excellens has produced some great cultivars, namely N. Excellens > "Jessica Laureen", N. Excellens"Superba", and one beautiful clone that > has not yet been named. One important advantage to this method is the > hybrid name immediately tells the parentage. N. Excellens is (N. Rokko X > N. Mixta) This is a lot easier and just as succunct as saying ((N. > thorelii X N. maxima) X (N. northiana X N. maxima)). Right. The correct orthography of the above plants would be (if the cultivar and cultivar group names were established): _N._ (Excellens Group) 'Jessica Laureen' and something like _N._ (Excellens Group) 'Perfectly Nice' ("superba" is a Latin word that may not be used for cultivar epithets acc. to Art.17.9. ICNCP). > Now, what I am calling a "hybrid name", as described above; is this the > same thing as a "cultivar group"? Yes. > Or, is a "cultivar group" basically the Japanese method, ie. everytime > the cross is remade (same parents or different clones of same parents) > the grex (the siblings) is given a different name. Example: N. Rokko, N. > Balmy Koto, and N. Masamiae are all N. thorelii X N. maxima. ? 'Rokko', 'Balmy Koto', and 'Masami' (or similar, i.e. *not* the Latin "masamiae") are cultivar names. > Where hybids get complex, namely Sarracenia and Nepenthes, why not > register the names of hybrids as well as distinctive cultivars? Yes. Why not? I do not see a reason to prevent this. The only limitation is that cultivar groups (that you called names of hybrids) must include at least one named cultivar, i.e. it is not possible to define a cultivar group before at least one cultivar can be stated to belong to this group. > Okay Jan, I've planted both feet firmly on the ground and put on my flak > jacket. Fire away. Which kind of fire would you like? Kind regards Jan ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:06:34 +0100 Subject: Re: John in Phoenix & killing utrics with baking soda > Don't know about anybody else's experiences with this baking > soda > water, with one exception Carl maintains that it breaks down the pete > to > quickly, not one of my establish Carnivorous plant, have bit the dust, > with the exception of Utric's (the mixture that I use could kill the > bugs > that the bladders like to suck in). Do you think I could use baking soda to kill U. subulata, that has invaded my greenhouse, without affecteing the "good" CP's ? Any other suggestions ? Kind regards Wim ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 14:13:40 +0100 Subject: Re: John in Phoenix & killing utrics with baking soda -Antwort Stefan Sehnbruch wrote: > Hi Wim, > > I did not read the whole thread, but why do you want to kill U. > subulata? > What is so bad about it? And how has it "invaded" your greenhouse? Dear Stefan, U. subulata is a _weed_. It produces pretty little yellow flowers, but it also forms seeds without bothering of going via the flowering stage. So, in both ways you end up with a lot of seeds. On the other hand it reproduces real easy vegetatively. When I mix used soil with a new mixture, there will always be a few particles of U. subulata in the old soil, so it can grow back in the new pots. Even when I threw all the old soil away, U. subulata kept coming back, because of plant material growing somewhere in between the roots of the bigger CP's. Only thoroughly rinsing the roots helps. During the growing period, U. subulata doesn't do any harm. I even like(d) the yellow flowers. But during winter, all the dead flower stalks, and it produces a lot of them, become infected with Botrytis. I lost a number of adult Sarracenia's because Botrytis "jumped over" from infected U. flower stalks to the rhizomes. I now remove the U. flower stalks each autumn and winter, because as soon as it heats up for a while, new flower stalks are reproduced, even during winter, and the infection danger continues. We had a severe winter last year (1996-1997), and I was hoping to be rid of U. subulata... But oh no, ..it all grew back, possibly from seeds that withstood the frost. Kind regards Wim ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:50:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Need help with soil acidity Hi Palindro >I have some Sarracenia purpurea and Diodaea that I will be propagating soon >and I have concerns about the planting medium. I will be using live spahgnum >moss but I don't know whether or not to be concerned about the acidity. I >don't know how to measure the PH, much less change it. The acid pH of live sphagnum moss is what you want to have so don't try to change it. David ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 07:16:33 PST Subject: Re: Cultivars Jan wrote: >An equivalent for grex (which is only applicable for >orchids according to ICNCP 1995) is the cultivar group. Contrary to >what has been stated, cultivar groups have in fact been established >also for (some) cps (Fleming, CPN 8:10-12, 1979). Couldn't a new cross be established as a cultivar group? For example, if I were the first to cross S.leucophylla with S.purpurea, and wanted to formally establish this cross as S.x 'mitchelliana,' wouldn't all S.x(leucophylla x purpurea) hybrids be in the cultivar group S.x 'mitchelliana?' Any plants of this cross with uniqueness could then be established as cultivars of the cultivar group S.x 'mitchelliana.' If so, then this seems to be what Peter DiAmato is suggesting. ################### From: j sullivan Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:49:07 -0800 Subject: 300 Extraordinary Plants for Home and Garden I purchased this book recently in a discount store in Amsterdam for about $15. It has 6 pages on cps, including a centerfold spread of Sarracenia purpurea and brief descriptions of most major forms of cps. There are also small photos of Darlingtonia californica and Nepenthes x chelsonii as well as a beautiful full page photo of N. rafflesiana. The book has 228 pages and has sections on many plant groups that are popular home cultivation topics. Author: Jack Kramer. Abbeville Press 1994. ISBN 1-55859-382-9. Jack ################### From: lasseter@chemvx.chem.tamu.edu (Benjamin Lasseter) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:10:35 -0600 Subject: looking for a book Ladies and Gentlemen, I am trying to construct a hydroponic garden, but need some information first. Can anyone recommend to me a good book on the building of such things? Benjamin F. Lasseter ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:30:30 Subject: Re: Cultivars Dear Stefan, > Couldn't a new cross be established as a cultivar group? More or less. The cross itself should have features shared by all plants belonging to that cross. > For example, if I were the first to cross S.leucophylla with > S.purpurea, and wanted to formally establish this cross as S.x > 'mitchelliana,' You can either validate the scientific taxon name S. * mitchelliana (which has been done already) or you can describe some of the plants as cultivars and unite them in a group (that would have to be called Mitchell Group or something like that in order to avoid a Latin epithet). > wouldn't all S.x(leucophylla x purpurea) hybrids be in the > cultivar group S.x 'mitchelliana?' Apart from the fact that "mitchelliana" (Latin) is not a suitable epithet for a cultivar group (Art.19.6. ICNCP), the assignment of cultivars to specific cultivar groups must be performed for each cultivar individually and explicitly. A cultivar does only belong to a taxon automatically (or rather, as soon as a taxonomist pastes a lable to the plant). So all these hybrid cultivars would belong to (or be taxonomic synonyms of) S. * mitchelliana, but would not necessarily belong to a Mitchell Group. The multiplication symbol should be dropped in cultivar names or cultivar-group names. It may (but does not need to) be used in taxon names. > Any plants of this cross with uniqueness could then be established > as cultivars of the cultivar group S.x 'mitchelliana.' If so, then > this seems to be what Peter DiAmato is suggesting. This is, however, not entirely the spirit of the ICNCP, which requires that cultivar groups are composed of named cultivars. Art.4.1. ICNCP reads: "Assemblages of two or more similar, named cultivars within a genus, species, nothogenus (hybrid genus), nothospecies (hybrid species) or other denomination class may be designated as cultivar-groups." This is one of the most heavily commented articles in the entire ICNCP (8 examples, 4 notes). The orchid passus is found in Note 4.: "In orchids, a particular grouping on the basis of known parentage, of which the unit is the grex (plural: greges, although often written as grexes); is in long standing use. This use is described in The handbook on orchid nomenclature and registration (Current (4th.) Edition: Greatwood, J., Hunt, P.F., Cribb, P.J., & Stewart, J. (eds), 1993. The handbook on orchid nomenclature and registration. The International Orchid Commission, London, U.K.)" Art.4.6.:"The designation of grex is not to be applied except in the case of orchids (see Art.4. Note 4)." Art.19.10.:"To be established, cultivar-group epithets may not contain the following words (or their equivalents in any language): cross, form, grex, group (except as the final word), hybrid, mutant, seedling, selection, sport, strain, variety, the plural form of these words, or the words improved and transformed." Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:45:36 PST Subject: Germination / Fungus & Slime / D.nidiformis, etc. Hello CPers. I planted a lot of seed a couple weeks ago and today have finally noticed *excellent* germination of D.nidiformis (=sp.Magaliesburg). This is the first to grow, I also planted 2 forms of madagascariensis, 2 of collinsiae, "villosa ascendens", neocaledonica and a few others (thank you, Jim, Marcelo and Laurent!) as well as some seed I had in the fridge for quite a few years. (Speaking of which, has anyone I sent seed to seen any germination yet? The above seed was planted in a new batch of Canadian peat moss (much better than the _crap_ I bought in small bags @ Frank's Nursery) and topped it with about 1cm of "No Damp Off"=milled dead sphagnum moss. So far, I have a little algae growth (nothing like what grew on my last batch of peat moss) and some fuzzy white fungus on a few seeds and twigs / misc. flower parts. I hope this milled sphagnum proves to be less suitable for algae, mold, fungus and other nasty growth. One of my friends recommended spraying a mild listerine+water solution over the surface of pots covered with unwanted growth and also recommended pouring boiling water over pots before planting. Anyone do either of these? She's an expert fern-grower but hasnt tried this with any CP so I thought I should ask beforehand. Finally, if I know you (or even if I dont know you) and you're in a friendly mood :) , drop me an email, I'd love to see some new email in this emailbox of mine... Happy growing, Matt ################### From: Kevin Snively Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 17:04:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: Late Reply D. regia TC >Date: Mon, 16 Feb 1998 01:14:49 -0800 >From: "Jens Rotthauwe" >Subject: Tissue Culture >Hello TC - experts ! >I have managed to establish some cp (D.regia, D.petiolaris, >D.falconeri, Da.californica ...) from seeds in vitro. >They are doing fine but so far I have failed to multiply them. >I have tried cuttings but they always died after a while. >If you have any advice or know some tricks please let me know. Dear Jens I'm no TC - expert but I have sucessfully done cuttings of D. regia once and will share that experence with you hoping it will help. 3 summers ago I had a mature plant taking up bench space in my greenhouse. Late in the fall I decided to transplant it into a hanging basket so it would be closer to its mate for pollination purposes the following spring and to reclaim the bench space. During repoting several large roots broke off and not wanting to waste the material I potted it up and left it on one of the lower shelves for the winter. High temps were in the low 50 Deg. F range lows 34 Deg. F avg about 40. Winter is longish and dark here at 48 deg. North. Late in the spring (about 6 months later I had about 1/2 Doz. small plants from the largest of the roots. I had tried to make cuttings before this with no sucess under warmer conditions. I've not tried to make any since. The parents are doing fine. Kevin Snively Everett Washington U.S.A. ################### From: j sullivan Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 20:24:45 -0800 Subject: Books on hydroponic growing For Benjamin: I found the following in my library: 1. Hydroponic Gardening, by Raymond Bridwell. Woodbridge Press 1972, 1974. ISBN 0-912800-57-7 (softbound), 0-912800-3 (hardbound). Everything you need to know in 224 pp. 2. Advanced Guide to Hydroponics, by James Sholto Douglas. Drake, 1976. ISBN 0-8473-1020-5. Everything else you need to know in 333 pp. I've owned these books for over 20 years but have never found an application for this powerful technology until now. I've recently become interested in cultivating the xerophytic bromeliad Tillandsia. These air plants need to be soaked with either water or nutrient solution and then let dry out before the start of the next cycle. As I travel a fair amount, and especially because of the excessively dry conditions during the heating season here in NJ, a hydroponic system is an attractive way to take good care of them via automation. There are probably many later books on hydroponics. Please let me know how you make out. Jack ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 25 Feb 98 20:22 EST Subject: Re: CP's > I tuned out of CP digest for a while because of the rubbish that has been > clogging the system. That is the personal attacks that are taking place > through the digest. I grow CP and I want ot share some information about > seedling, N. madagascarensis. Do not overwater and they do not like too > high humidity. Sorry Cindy, they germinated well but they turned black and > died under a plastic propagator cover. Hello Meryl and Cindy, This morning, I repotted some of the seedling S.madagascarensis which grew from seed send by Cindy. It's odd, but some are growing very fast while others are lagging greatly. One seedling is nearly an inch across already! Most are still only producing their second or third leaves though and there is third group still sending up cotyledon. All are growing in the same pot and should be getting similar conditions. On the other hand, Meryl has send me a several types of seed (N.ampullaria never did show; but N.rafflesiana, N.raff * (ampullaria * mirablis), and N.rafflesiana * truncata did! Though only two of that last one came up and one damped-off :( ) The seedlings from Meryl grow at similar rates, however and most plants are about the same size. Cindy, are the seeds you sent me from several plants or just one? I think Meryl's seeds tend to be from one plant at a time, though I'm not sure. Can the different rates of growth I see in N.madagascarensis be attributed to having numerous parents in the wild and thus greater diversity, or is N.madagascarensis very variable? The TC plant who's care I recently asked about has been kept drier, but it is still failing. I'm starting to think that some of the these seedlings, which are kept wetter are going over take it, if it keeps living. Confused by N.madagascarensis, Dave Evans ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:49:23 EST Subject: Re: CP Wlm Leys, also Sluggo @ clark William go ahead and try, Uric Subulata hasn't made an appearance in any of my peat that I know of. The Utric Sand. found a couple of corners to grow a little in, even though I applied baking soda water. Palindro Sluggo, leads me to think about side stepping when I read his Handle. White sand doesn't agree with my Purparea, added more peat to counter. If your Purparea starts turning orange to much acidic sphagnum. ################### From: rilyle@internetnorth.com.au (Ross & Ingrid Lyle) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:52:44 +1000 (EST) Subject: hydroponic cp's I note with interest Benjamin Lasseters enquiry about a book on hydroponic gardens. Does anyone have any experience in growing cp.s using this method ? Is there a problem with the regular use of nutrient solution stopping trap production? I have always been careful to avoid the over use of fertilizer with my cp's & feel that it may my a delicate business to get the solution just right. Thanking you in advance. Ross Lyle ################### From: owl@owlseye.com Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 22:26:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Is Your Web Site A Secret? To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Is your web site the best kept secret on the Internet? We'll promote it to 50 search engines and indexes for $85 and complete the job in 2 business days. Satisfaction is guaranteed! If you have a great product, but are not getting many inquiries from your Web site, you may not be adequately listed on the Web's search engines and indexes. Millions of viewers daily use these facilities to find the products and services they are looking for. But if your site is not listed, no one will see it. Listings on most of these services are free. However, locating and filling out the forms required to get a listing can take several days, and most people just don't have the time to do it. That is why we offer a web site promotion service. WHAT'S THE DEAL? We will submit your site to 50 indexes and search engines for $85. 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(This information will be posted to the search engines/indexes): Your name: Company Name: Address: City: State/Prov: Zip/Postal Code: Telephone: Fax: Email address: URL: http:// Site Title: Description (about 25 words): Key words (maximum of 25, in descending order of importance): Proofs (Where shall we e-mail proofs): If billing a different address, please complete the following: Addressee: Company Name: Address: City: State/Prov: Zip/Postal Code: Telephone: Fax: Email address: We will bill via Email. (SE7N09) Terms: By returning this document via Email, you agree as follows: You have the authority to purchase this service on behalf of your company. Terms are net 15 days. Accounts sent to collections will be liable for collection costs. You agree to protect and indemnify Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. in any claim for libel, copyright violations, plagiarism, or privacy and other suits or claims based on the content or subject matter of your site. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? When we receive your order, we will input the information into our system. Then we will run your promotion, capturing any comments from search engines as we go. We will incorporate these into an HTML-formatted report to you, which we will attach to your bill. ===================================================================== Owl's Eye Productions, Inc. 260 E. Main Street Brewster, NY 10509 Ph: 914-278-4933 Fx: 914-278-4507 E-mail: owlseye@secretwebsite.com ################### From: "MR E.C. VAN ZUILEKOM" <9623426@rgo.sun.ac.za> Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:19:50 +0200 Subject: Sphagnum Greetings all, Erik here from South Africa, I've been hoping to find out who has found sphagnum producing spores in cultivation. It seems to be something of a myth here in S.A. being found only(and on rare occasions) in natural habitat. I personally have only witnessed it myself on Table Mountain. Pease remember that this could very simply be the case due to the presence of exactly 0 peat bogs, with sphagnum only growing in isolated areas of seepage, waterlogged areas on the sides of streams as well as waterfall areas. The presence of our "reticual" sphagnum, seemingly from a much varying line of evolution to the more commonly used sphagnum is also a mystery to me. The mere fact that our sphagnum tends to dry out completely, in certain situations and then except for a tiny core of moisture in the centre of the mounds formed, indicates the variance within the species. Any info. concerning sphagnum would be appreciated. All the best Erik ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ >>Erik van Zuilekom<< E-mail: 9623426@rgo.sun.ac.za >>>>Address: 117 Panorama Drive, Stellenryk 7530,<<<< >>>> Cape Town, South Africa <<<< >>>>Phone: (027) 031 99-1807 <<<< ________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ################### From: "Ernest Ming" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:56:15 -0000 XSubject: Sphagnum How to unsubscribe? ################### From: -Tom- Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 09:23:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Non-CP related message...... This message is only for those of you who may know Krissy Mott or Tom Hayes. Please delete otherwise and forgive the intrusion. Krissy's mother went to be with the Lord 2/25/98 at 12:30PM. If anyone is interested in paying last respects, please contact Tom Hayes @ 717-322-3796 for more information. Peace to all. Take care & keep on growing, Thomas K. Hayes DANGEROUS PLANTS dangerous_plants@hotmail.com tkhayes@mail.microserve.net http://www.infinicom.com/~thayes ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:11:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: planting seeds I'm finally getting around to planting a ton of seeds I've received over the last month or two, primarily Drosera and Utricularia. Should I just scatter them on the surface of the soil and leave 'em or should I cover them with more dirt afterwards? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:57:12 PST Subject: Re: SX'Judith Hindle' Dear Peter, >Incidentally, the parentage of the plant was not duplicated exactly >as I had sent it in to ICPS, as S. x 'Judith Hindle' was begotten by >the crossing of TWO seperate plants that had purpurea, flava and >leucophylla in them. According to the CPN(v.22,p.38), the parentage is Sarracenia(leucophylla x flava"rugelli") x purpurea"chipola." At one time I believe it was described as SX(flava x purpurea) x leucophylla. What is the true parentage or is it even known? A long time Sarracenia grower speculated that it is an F2 hybrid of the latter cross. Again, are the exact crosses that produced SX'Judith Hindle' known? Thank you, Stefan ################### From: "Matthias Schmidt" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:49:36 +0100 Subject: male flowering N. aristolochioides Dear CP list, a friend of mine has a flowering male Nepenthes aristolochioides and is searching for a flowering female Nepenthes to make a cross polination. Please note that this is very urgent, the N. aristolochioides is in full bloom now. Anybody who has a flowering _female_ Nepenthes should please contact Mr Joachim Nerz directly under the following e-mail for further details: joachim.nerz@albatros.tue.bawue.de Regards, Matthias Schmidt Matthias Schmidt Rossweg 15 71106 Magstadt Germany e-mail: matthias.schmidt@schwaben.de WWW Homepage: http://www.schwaben.de/home/schmidt/index.html ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:55:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: planting seeds Oops ... in regard to my earlier post about planting seeds. They'll be going on the soil in individual pots indoors. I realized that it sounded kind of like I was just throwing the seeds around outside.... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:52:26 GMT Subject: CP, Plant, Etc Software? List, Quick question... Is anyone using some software to track their CP's?... I really don't think it's necessary at times but then others I do... I know with my bonsai collection I've used basic software to track things such as pruning, feedings, and scheduled maintenance on them and was wondering about CP's...=20 Well that's a good question you say? heh heh... Actually I'm working now on some software that will keep a database of all your CP's with correct names, aquired dates, propagation records, scheduled items and the such... I was just wondering if anyone would be willing to add some input into this to make my job a little easier... Not being into CP all that long it would be great to find out from all of you what sort of things I could add to the software...=20 Right now I've got the majority of the database code written and would be looking for other ideas to throw into the fray... I'm using Visual Basic 5.0 so all .EXE's will be small and fast... I figure I can use this little application to track things such as humidity, temp, photo period, etc for later data analysis incase such needed information becomes crucial...=20 Well this is getting long but please let me know if this sounds like a good idea... I'm thinking it may (depending on usage) become a major project for all types of horticulture and that I may in the long run possibly make a little money to spur my new fangled habit.. err.. hobby!... Thanks all! ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:21:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: pollen desperatly needed, Hi folks, I am writing to say I have two Nepenthes that are in bloom now and need pollen ASAP. Any kind will do. Andrew Marshall My address is 131 sw 185th St Normandy PArk, Wa. 98166 USA Of course, if the cross is successful, I will split the seed with the pollen donor. Thanks! Andrew ################### From: "Judy Clark" Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 11:01:29 -0500 Subject: Heliamphora Growers Questions How Yall Are , All you Helimaphora growers I have a question to ask youall .Angie Nichols is a well known Heliamp grower ,and does a wonderfull job with the species and hybrids . She is having trouble with the species Heliamphora nutans ,and asks is it harder to grow or do you treat it differently than the others in this cooolll group of plants . If you can help her ,please sign on the list or email her at angehall@netscope.net and on another note the Southern Spring Show is in full bloom,right now and up until Sunday .The orchids are at there prime condition now.I put in a display garden for Orchid show and could not help my self to include some of Sarracenia hybrids that looked good just coming out of dormancy,as well as other plants .Thanks to Larry Melichamp The display of C.P. is getting great praise ,and to stand of at distance and watch people point at ,and laugh and smile makes it all worthwhile !!! Maybe we can a larger one if more people from the area get involved.. Sincerly C.P.s David Crump @ Carolina Carnivorous Gardens 4174 Welling Ave Charlotte N C 28208 PS Im not getting into the cultivar wars JUST yet ! ################### From: elliott@nexus.edu.au (Russell Elliott) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:53:41 +1030 (CST) Subject: Re: a few questions > >Also I have a S. Oreophilla x Leucophylla which has been sending out dummy pitchers >(like the winter pitchers half the full size with a very small unformed hood >, whole blade bending backwards) since about October & I can't work out why. >... humidity / water seems ok & is getting lots of light in the greenhouse, >it's still Summer here. Any ideas? I guess at this stage I should just let > it go dormant & hope that it will come back as it should in Spring. > >Thanks. >Mark - OZ. > Mark, My S.oreophila plants exhibit the same behavior at this time of year in Australia. It is a natural adaptation to their natural habitat. The area in which they grow (or by now, *grew*) is much drier than other Sarracenia habitats. The plants respond to these conditions by only sending pitchers up for a few months. These then wither, and are replaced by the "phyllodia", which I think you described. Since your plant is a hybrid with S.leucophylla, it sounds like these oreophila charachteristics are the most dominant. S. leucophylla also has the strange habit of producing a number or large healthy pitchers at the beginning, and again at the end of the growing season. The pitchers produced between these times are often deformed. I hope this info helps, -Russell PS The seed bank page has been redone, and is updated regulalry. The URL is: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4247/seed.htm @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ! Russell Elliott, Seed Bank Director, ! ! Australian Carnivorous Plant Society. ! ! Sorry, due to limited stocks, seed only available to members. ! ! mailto:elliott@nexus.edu.au ! ! Please Direct membership enquiries to Brian Denton at: ! ! mailto:bdenton@camtech.net.au ! ! ACPS Home Page: http://www.camtech.net.au/acps ! @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ ################### From: Stefan Sehnbruch Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:31:44 +0100 Subject: Re: Germination / Fungus & Slime / D.nidiformis, etc. >>> "Sundew Sundew" 25.02.98 21.51 >>> >Hello CPers. Hello Matt! [... cut ...] >One of my friends recommended spraying a mild listerine+water solution Sorry, can you explain me what listerine is? >over the surface of pots covered with unwanted growth and also >recommended pouring boiling water over pots before planting. Anyone do >either of these? She's an expert fern-grower but hasnt tried this with >any CP so I thought I should ask beforehand. Once I tried the boiling water method. My experience: The first week it was really good, no fungus at all. But then suddenly most of the seed was heavily infected with fungus I had much success with the following mehod: I just prepare soil and seed as usual but for watering I use water from my CP-aquarium (it is filled about 3 inch high with water). It seems to contain a well balanced mixture of microorganisms that can protect soil and seed from being infected with fungus or algae. If you haven't got such a CP tank, you can try watering a really healthy (no fungus no slime) CP. Collect the water that leaks out of the pot and add it to the water for the new pot. You can even try combining the boiling method with the inoculation method. First pour boiling water on the soil, wait until cold, add the seed and then inoculate with the water from other CPs. >Happy growing, >Matt The same to you! Stefan ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:50:40 +0100 Subject: Darlingtonia et al germination This is a private e-mail conversation that David Mellard and I held. David asked me to post this to the list, as it could be of interest to others too. > Dear David > > > I read on the list that Darlingtonia seed doesn't need to be > > stratified. > > I apply stratification on Darlingtonia seeds and get excellent > results. > > They were planted on top a sand/peat mix (1:1) and placed in my grow > > > room, some under clear plastic others exposed to the air. > > I always use a plastic cover. > > > The grow is > > cool this time of year with high temps around 70 F (about 19 C?) and > > > low > > temps around 50 to 55 F (? C). > > (70 F = 21 C; 50 F = 10 C, 55 F = 13 C) > > I did notice that bottom heat in beneficial in two ways : it speeds up > > the germination process and the germination rate is higher. > > > I think one of the problems is that they > > are in as close of contact with the medium as they should be so I > > plant > > to start watering them from above instead of by the tray system. > > I sow all frost resistant plants (VFT, Darlingtonia, Sarracenia, > drosera) directly in the seed tray at the end of the year (+- > november), > water it, spray it thoroughly with a fungicide, wrap it in a dark > plastic bag (to prohibit light induced germination) and leave it in my > > unheated greenhouse, or under a tree in the garden so it can freeze, > defrost, freeze, defrost, ... The first of february I put in the > bottom > heat and place it in a light place (greenhouse). All viable seeds > germinate after 2-4 weeks. > > I wonder why so many people keep stressing that Darlingtonia seeds > have > to be as fresh as possible to be viable. Sure it is always better to > start from fresh seeds, but I have sown Darlingtonia seeds that were > stored in the refrigerator for three years, and they germinated at > their > "normal" nearly 100 % rate but after a stratification period. Perhaps > the cool storage keeps the seeds viable and/or is the stratification > necessary to initiate germination after such a long time ?? > > It is possible that Darlingtonia seeds don't need stratification if > they > are sown fresh. I have not performed any scientific germination test > with all the possible combinations of fresh seeds, seeds stored for > one > or more years in or out the refrigerator and with or without a > stratification period. But I get excellent results the way I do it > now, > so why should I change ? When I read those stories about putting seeds > > in a vial, together with some damp Sphagnum for so many months in the > refrigerator I keep asking myself why people want to make things so > complicated. > > I used the "refrigerator stratification" method when I first started > with CP's. It never really worked for me. I prefer the way I > described. > The germination rate is excellent and it generates a lot less fuzz > (you > only have to manipulate the seeds once, when you sow them). > > Kind regards > Wim > > great big belly laugh. I'm the one that puts Sarr seed in little vials > > along with sphagnum moss. I'm still laughing. You're way sounds much > > > better. > > > I'm sorry, I didn't want to criticize you. I tried this Sphagnum / > refrigerator way too, so many years ago, as the "Sphagnum will provide > the exact pH and will protect the seeds from being attacked by fungi and > bacteria". > > The thing I found the most problematic with seeds stored together with > Sphagnum is that they get stuck between the moss, and sowing a clump of > Sphagnum with some seeds in it didn't seem that practical. So I picked > them out, one by one. This is cumbersome, but is still feasible with > Sarracenia seeds, it really became a challenge when I took the vials > with Drosera seeds out. I remember having tried to wash the seeds out of > the moss. > > The year after I wanted to keep the seeds separated from the Sphagnum by > wrapping them in a little piece of paper, before putting them together > with the Sphagnum. Germination did occur, but was not really good. > > The year after I tried the sow-directly-in-the- > seed-tray-and-throw-it-outside method, and giving the minimal effort / > maximal germination rate, I still use this method. It is very similar to > the way Mother Nature applies stratification. > Kind regards Wim ################### From: Jure Slatner Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:55:48 +0100 Subject: S. purpurea in Europe Hi all Short intro: I live near Ljubljana, Slovenia; growing CP's ten years, mostly VFT, Sarracenias and Droseras, (hard to get others). I read S. purpurea is naturalised in some European countries. I planted some plants in the bog here in Slovenia three years ago and it grows and flowers well. I'm interested in its behaviour in other countries where it was introduced long ago. Which countries are these? Does it endanger other plants? Does it reproduce itself with seeds also? Does it overgrow territories? Does it expand to other places? Is it the menace? I still have my plants under control and I'm able to pull them out and prevent any damage on autochthon plants. Kind regards Jure ################### From: michiel van bennekom Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:15:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: New member (introduction) and a question about N. alata Hello CP friends, It is customary for new subscribers to eventually post a self-introduction, so here it is. My name is Michiel van Bennekom, 22 years old and I'm a horticultural student at the Wageningen Agricultural University (the Netherlands). It is my fourth year here and I'm enjoying my study. I'm interested in almost every plantspecies; I often visit gardens (botanical ones) and I have a job at a gardencenter (part-time) where I help out and give customers advice on different plants (position in the garden, soiltextures and other questions) and other things you can put in your garden. My interest in carnivorous plants started with a gift I received a few years ago (a venus-flytrap). From there it went quickly, I got a young nepenthes-cutting (alata; which is doing terrible at the moment) and another nepenthes (more mature plant, also alata; a have a question about this plant later). Now I have a Pinguicula 'Weser', Drosera capensis both the red and white hairs ('alba'), Drosera binata (still very small but I already have it for about a year!), Drosera spathicula (not the correct spelling but the exact name I forgot) and the Dionaea muscipula (both young and old plant (old one isn't doing so well). Then in this spring I will use the seeds I have of Sarracenia flava (the green ones with the small and high pitchers). Also I have some Dionaea seeds which won't germinate, some Drosera capensis seeds (haven't tried them yet) and some Drosera 'spathicula' seeds that already germinated (really small but beautiful plants). I'd wish I had more species and plants but some died after a while (for instance: pinguicula moranensis dies every time; the little plants will not grow big and one time one did and also flowered but after that died also). I joined this group because my interest in carnivorous plants is still growing and because I have a question which I couldn't find an answer to (I still don't have literature on the subject of cp plants and in the library I couldn't find it). My question is: My Nepenthes (alata) suddenly started flowering at the beginning of this week. I've had it for over 2 years (it's a big plant). I believe it is most unusual for the Nepenthes to flower in a living/sleepingroom (my studentroom in Wageningen). Especially because I don't pay to much attention to it (no special environment, it just hangs at my window) I went to a person at the University who told me the Nepenthes needs another plant (of the opposit sexe) to produce seeds. I don't know the sexe of my plant (the flowers aren't open yet; still little knots on the stem). My question now is: How can I find out the sexe of my plant and when it is a female plant where can I get some male pollen to cross it with? (is it possible to cross it?) I hope I can get an answer to mij question and thank you for reading my introduction, Greetings, Michiel e-mail: Michiel.vanBennekom@studenten.tbpt.wau.nl ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:34:00 -0500 Subject: FW: Darlingtonia et al germination Wim recently posted to the list our private discussion about methods for sowing Darlingtonia and Sarracenia seed when he made a statement about why people would try complicated methods of putting Sarr seeds in small vials with a sprig of sphagnum. Once he realized that I was that person he apologized. Here's my response to him and I think is something we should all keep in mind as we discuss cp methods (and opinions) intermixed with human emotions. >no problem. You criticized a method, a growing a technique, which is what the list is >for. The problem arises when someone starts criticizing the person. So, don't worry, >be happy just like the song. David ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 10:18:50 -0500 Subject: re: message for De Waal This message is for De Waal, De Waal I have not been successful in returning a message back to you. I keep getting "unable to delivery", The answer to your question on how long does it take a vft to grow to maturity is about 4 years. This, of course, depends on the plant, growing condition, length of the growing season, light and a few other things, but an all around answer would be about 4 years under normal conditions. Charles Brewer Va. Beach, Va. USA ################### From: "Sarver, Cindy" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 98 08:38:00 PST Subject: Nep madagascariensis seeds Folks, I'm sending this to the list since so many of you got seeds from me. The nepenthes madagascariensis seeds that I brought back from Madagascar were from many plants - I'd guess I collected from at least 30 different plants, if not more. This would explain the different behavior that you are seeing among seedlings. Good growing, -cindy sarver P.S. Please note the new email address. ################### From: Paul Burkhardt Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 11:32:20 -0600 (CST) Subject: Oops, forgot to change the subject - On seedling N. madagascariensis Dave Evans wrote: > This morning, I repotted some of the seedling S.madagascarensis > which grew from seed send by Cindy. It's odd, but some are growing > very fast while others are lagging greatly. One seedling is nearly > an inch across already! Most are still only producing their second > or third leaves though and there is third group still sending up > cotyledon. Hi Dave, I also have N. madagascariensis from Cindy (Hi Cindy!), which show variable growing rates. They are all in the same growing area and experience the same growing conditions. I have several which are larger than the others (not like yours Dave, 1 inch across, wow!), but sprouted later than some. In fact, the very first seedling to have sprouted, is only about average size now. I attribute this to genetic differences, some seeds just having been formed with 'more'. For example, I noticed that some seeds were larger than others, not just in length, but in mass. It just so happens that these seedlings are quite protected in our 'home' environments, and if it were an ensemble in the wild, we might see more uniform sizes, where the ones which had 'less' wouldn't have survived, and therefore not be observed. Just some of my thoughts on the matter. Dave, get back to me on your growing conditions, please. Paul Burkhardt ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:37:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Science Project (fwd) Hi folks, I was sent the following posting describing a teacher's desperate situation. I hope one or more of you could help her in her noble efforts. -Barry ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: bazza@ucdavis.edu Dear Dr. Meyers-Rice I have been teaching middle school science for the last 20 years in Fort Worth ISD, a large urban school district. During the past 8 years, I have been developing a Carnivorous Plant Bog Ecosystem for the Classroom curriculum. Yesterday, I sent the project to the 1998 Sea World/Busch Gardens Environmental Excellence Awards. This project is my passion and it has been a life saver this year, because I am teaching in an alternative ninth grade school, Accelerated High School, for students who failed middle school. I have 125 "behaviorly challenge" at-risk kids who hate school - many using drugs, etc. Being an experenced teacher, I was sure I would be able to turn the kids around in a couple of weeks. I was wrong - it took 12 to 18 weeks before they started listening, learning, and turning on to science. The "bog box" was the key to success. Usually the bog is a hit the first day of school, but not with these kids. I have been using information from your web site in my classrrom this year (from home, I don't have an internet connection at the school). The students are using HyperStudio, a multi media software, to develop an educational CD on Carnivorous Plant Bog Ecosystem for the Classroom. Each student has to contribute at least one card to the program. We have 20 completed cards at this time. I would gladly share the project with you if you are interested. The purpose for this email, is to ask if you or if you know of someone who could help me obtain some carnivorous plants for the students to test in the labs they have written. I have funded the entire project so far and have let the kids experiment with my plants. I am running short of funds at this time, and am looking for a source of discounted or donated carnivorous plants and live sphagnum moss. I am also looking for starts of other bog plants because some experiments are on flood control. I am truly amazed at the projects my students have developed, especially because this is the only thing they have been interested in all year. I really believe this project has turned some of my students back on the positive tract to becoming a responsible adult. I hope you can respond to this request as soon as possible, because I need project supplies next week. I will send you copies of all our work, if you are interested. Jill Wimberly ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:57:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: Superthrive Trials Hey everyone, This is just a preliminary notice on experimental trials in progress. I have been experimenting on Superthrive and its effects upon Nepenthes. I have set up two different experiments, using fresh cuttings and young rooted plants. I am using a total of about 90 plants in these trials. If anyone else is going to be working on similar trials to investigate Superthrive, you may wish to contact me and we can share methods. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: "Dr Pamela Burns-Balogh" Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 14:36:47 -0600 Subject: Balogh Scientific Books- Casper's Pinguicula Treatment I just received a few copies of this from Germany and thought you might be interested in my review of this book.. This is, unfortunately for most people in GERMAN... the photographs are B&W and are about half of living specimens and the other half pressed herbarium specimens.. There are several large distribution maps. The species descriptions are in Latin. This is a heavy duty taxonomic monograph and is not intended as a how-to book or a lookee-see book. The keys are in German as well as the discussions. There is a comprehensive bibliography/literature cited at the end of the treatment.. paperback. Casper, S. Jost. 1966. Monographie Der Gattung Pinguicula L. Bibliotheca Botanica Heft 127/128, Band XXXI. covers history, systematics, morphology, genetics, ecology, physiology, evolution. Subgenus Isoloba: 20 species, Subgenus Temnoceras: 9 species, Subgenus Pinguicula: 17 species. in German, 241 pp., 28 B&W photos, 46 drawings or maps. $155.00 Dr. Pamela Burns-Balogh balogh@balogh.com Balogh Scientific Books, http://www.balogh.com 1911 N. Duncan Rd. , Champaign, Illinois 61821 USA fax: +1 217 355 9413; phone: +1 217 355 9331 ################### From: CALIFCARN Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 18:13:43 EST Subject: Re: Cultivar Stuff Howdy folks. Peter here in the land of landslides. The sun actually came out today! I, too, wanted to thank Mark Oveson for his clear explanation of what the orchid growers do, which is similar to what I've been doing, minus, of course, the awards. I had a long chit chat with Larry Mellichamp on the phone the other day. He said he's gonna do an article or something on this cultivar business shortly. I'll let him and Jan battle it out. I really appreciate Jan's trying to clarify all of this for us, but I'm afraid it's kind of like the religious fanatic pointing at his or her Koran or Bible, then shaking that finger in our faces, while we all go about sinning in the eyes of taxonomy. I do have a question for Jan, however, about one point he's made several times. You state that a "cultivar group" can't be named without first naming a "cultivar". I have crossed many Sarracenia hybrids, some of them quiet complex. As I grow them out, if I notice an outstanding plant or two, I put them aside to evaluate them as a possible future cultivar. This is more or less what I've learned from Slack's books, and talking with other growers, etc. over the years about "cultivars". While all of the plants in this or that hybrid cross may be attractive, usually none are so drop dead gorgous that I would want to name it as a "cultivar" to preserve its status vegatatively. Do I still have to choose at least one "cultivar" from this group in order to establish a "cultivar group"? Couldn't I just name the whole "group" without singling out one particular plant? Stefan asked what the true parentage of S. x 'Judith Hindle' is. I will have to look through my records and notes to see if I still have that information, and if I find it I will let you know. (However the correspondence with Alan Hindle may have been lost a few years ago when a big storm destroyed much of our greenhouse and blew everything away) From what I recall, Alan had one plant that had S. purpurea v., flava and leucophylla in it. I believe it was the Bradys, who, I think, owned Sarracenia nurseries in London, who had another S. (purp x flava) x leuco. Both of these hybrids used original species that were forms or varieties of particular note. Alan crossed the two plants. S. x 'Judith Hindle' was one of the offspring, of which he donated a division to California Carnivores. The first spring that it grew, several customers fainted in the aisles of the nursery upon seeing it, and thus Marilee and I decided to name it as a cultivar. Th-th-th-that's all, folks. Peter ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:52:31 -0500 Subject: Sarracenia purpurea habitats In CP digest 1371 Jure wrote: I read S. purpurea is naturalised in some European countries. I planted some plants in the bog here in Slovenia three years ago and it grows and flowers well. I'm interested in its behaviour in other countries where it was introduced long ago. Which countries are these? Does it endanger other plants? Does it reproduce itself with seeds also? Does it overgrow territories? Does it expand to other places? Is it the menace? I still have my plants under control and I'm able to pull them out and prevent any damage on autochthon plants. Kind regards Jure Welcome to the list Jure! Here is some info on our local S. purpureas (Northern Ohio, USA, about latitude 40-41 degrees north): All the locations here are in what is called "kettle hole" bogs. These were formed as a result of the retreating glaciers at the end of the last ice age (25,000-20,000 years ago). These were originally broad depressions left in the earth that filled with water and decomposing organic matter. Over thousands of years these inland features evolved into sphagnum and marl bogs. Several still exist here in Ohio and are protected from ruthless land development. They harbor rare plants, three of which are Tamarack trees, Drosera rotundifolia, and Sarracenia purpurea ssp. purpurea. Farther north in Michigan and Ontario, Canada these locations also feature Drosera intermedia, linearis, and anglica. The purpurea plants here have to deal with a harsh climate. In the winter (not this one, though!) temperatures can get down to -15f on isolated nights and hover below 32f for a week or two. Snowfall here averages 30-50 inches annually. The seed pods split open in mid-autumn but do not germinate until the following spring; on my numerous bog walks during the winter I've noticed most of the seed still intact on the pods in January. Finding S. purpurea in a suitable location here is more the exception than the rule. Some bogs feature large clumps of purpureas growing amid sphagnum hummocks while others yield only a few specimens. I really can't imagine these plants being "invasive", as they will only grow in the rarefied conditions that exist in these kettle bogs. One neat thing about bog walking here in the winter is the sight of large clumps of purpurea sticking out of the snow with deep red pitchers. they take on this color in late fall and persist throughout the dark, cold months. New growth in the spring is green with red venation. Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: marnero@digicron.com (Frantz) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 07:10:03 +0100 (MET) Subject: Some questions about SAND Hello, I'm from Italy. I'm beginning in cooltivations CP. I've some questions about sands for ground: I know that I need use sand for aquarium, but how fine it must be? Very fine or simply pebble? Thanks and sorry for my english, Frantz ################### From: MARK POGANY Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 01:47:48 -0500 Subject: D. burmannii tentacle movement This evening, while tending my tank of seedings, I experienced another CP "moment". I was inspecting my 4 month-old seedling D. burmannii plants and noticed one that was larger than most (1/2 inch or so). While watching the outer tentacles through a 10x lens I brushed my finger across said matter. At once these tentacles began to fold in towards the center of the leafblade. What utterly astonished me was the speed at which they did this! Naked eye, it was clear as day- roughly the same speed as a low humidity VFT trap closes (90 degrees in 15 seconds). Phewwww!!! Mark Pogany Cleveland, Ohio markp@crscms.com ################### From: "Justin Arthur" Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 08:04:05 PST Subject: Re: Science Project (fwd) Barry sent the following message to the CP listserve >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 05:46:24 EST >From: Jillwimber@aol.com >To: bazza@ucdavis.edu >Subject: Science Project > >The purpose for this email, is to ask if you or if you know of someone who >could help me obtain some carnivorous plants for the students to test in the >labs they have written. I have funded the entire project so far and have let >the kids experiment with my plants. I am running short of funds at this time, >and am looking for a source of discounted or donated carnivorous plants and >live sphagnum moss. I am also looking for starts of other bog plants because >some experiments are on flood control. I am truly amazed at the projects my >students have developed, especially because this is the only thing they have >been interested in all year. I really believe this project has turned some of >my students back on the positive tract to becoming a responsible adult. > >I hope you can respond to this request as soon as possible, because I need >project supplies next week. --------------------------------------------------------------------- One of the best scources CP supplies is California Carnivores. Their web address is http://www.californiacarnivores.com ______________________________________________ Justin T. Arthur | | | 0 0 | | & | Chapel Hill, NC 27514 | \___/ | United States Of America --------- ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:21:21 -0500 (EST) Subject: Pinguicula caerulea Does P.caerulea self-pollinate? Mine flowered a couple of months ago, so I attempted to self the flowers (the second came up after the first had wilted) but it's been a month or so since the flowers wilted off and they really don't look like they're doing anything like making seeds. I'm sure I got pollen where it was supposed to go (Thanks Bob! :) so if they will self, they should be doing it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: SCT RFCS Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 13:55:09 EST Subject: 'Carnivorous Plants of Australia Volume 1' by Allen Lowrie After waiting a few days to see if anyone had ever contacted Allen regarding a reprint of this book I decided to telephone the author myself. I will pass along some more general information before dealing with the main topic. Allen is currently proof reading Volume 3 in this series and understands from University of Western Australia Press that they would like to publish the book by July of this year. He believes this time line to be a bit optimistic. Allen also said that he had been 'toying' with the concept of redoing all three volumes as one composite work. Those of us who have downloaded Allen Lowrie's recent catalogue will know that Volume 1 is cited as 'none available worldwide', that is unless you are prepared to pay $Au 750.00 for the soft cover version(used?) or $Au 1,000 for the hard cover version from Colin at Triffid Park. As a side point, Allen lists used Volume 2 editions at a price range of $Au 35.00 to $Au 75.00 dependent upon soft or hard cover/with or without cover damage. Triffid Park lists Volume 2 at $Au 100.00 hard cover(used?) and the soft cover version at $Au 75.00(used?). Returning to the main issue of how to acquire a copy of Volume 1 at a reasonable price, there may be a few possible alternatives. 1. The publisher may be willing to provide bound photocopies in a manner similar to that offered by MIT Press. Personally, I would want the photographs in color which of course increases the cost. The unit cost could logically be reduced by placing a bulk order. 2. If the publisher is willing to run a standard reprint there should once again be a unit cost reduction with a bulk order. Allen said he would be willing to approach his publisher regarding a reprint of 'Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Volume 1'. The first printing was apparently in 1989 with a run of 2,000 copies and were sold at ~$Au38.00@. Allen feels that the publisher would be much more receptive to the idea of reprinting if most of the run would be presold. This would also reduce the final cost as distributors and bookstores would not be involved. There are other logistics that would have to be addressed such as bulk shipping and the gathering together of individual book payments. Obviously before any energy is expended in that direction we first need to know if we have the viable number of 'customers' to make this work. Allen and I feel there has to be concrete evidence of a demand for 'Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Volume 1 before approaching the publisher. I am willing to collect and compile such evidence and pass it on to Allen for his discussions with the publisher. Even with an optimistic hope for a modest run of 300 to 500 copies it might be prudent to 'beat the bushes' to a degree to see if we can increase the numbers by talking to whoever might be interested. A limited press run will likely mean limited choice relative to format variables. It could however, be useful to know our preferences of the following: A. Hard bound B. Soft bound C. Photocopy(black & white) D. Photocopy(color photographs) I would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions anyone might have relative to this proposal. If you are potentially interested in purchasing one or more copies of 'Carnivorous Plants of Australia, Volume 1' by Allen Lowrie, send me an E-mail indicating the number of copies and preferred formats. I will post any new developments to the CPdigest if and when they occur. Bob Sheppard sctrfcs@aol.com ################### From: Stuart Haxton Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:28:27 +0000 Subject: Cephs, Neps + Utrics Hi everyone, Sorry for my absence! I was musing over plants in general yesterday, and I wondered if the dark red colouration and hair on cephalotus traps could have a similar attraction to certain bugs as rotting meat? (nice thought) There is a desert flower that uses this method for pollination. This would most likely be a solely visual effect, and on landing on the traps would the bugs be pleasantly surprised by the nectar? Also, some of the leaves on some of my nepenthes are beginning to turn yellow, although the plants are making reasonable growth. I don't know why this is happening, although being a beginner I could be doing anything imaginable wrong. Could anyone post me some suggestions? I have heard that some Utrics like similar conditions to highland Nepenthes. Which ones? I am also interested in trying some orchids...who should I ask for advice? Has anyone tried growing Utrics in the water reservoirs of bromeliads; it is a practice I would like to attempt but I'm not sure how to go about it. -- Stuart Haxton ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:02:51 Subject: Re: Cultivar Stuff Dear Peter, I do not think that correct naming of carnivorous plants is in any way comparable to religion or fanatism. It is rather a question of discipline and respect for the cp community who has to live and deal with the available names. Sorry, but I seem to be unable to get the point why it is necessary or beneficial to bogus-name and distribute plants or to drop even a single word about them *before* they are named properly. Could someone please explain this to me? > I do have a question for Jan, however, about one point he's made > several > times. You state that a "cultivar group" can't be named without first > naming a "cultivar". I have crossed many Sarracenia hybrids, some of > them quiet complex. As I grow them out, if I notice an outstanding > plant or two, I put them aside to evaluate them as a possible future > cultivar. This is more or less what I've learned from Slack's books, > (...) While Slack's attitudes towards breeding were indeed exemplary, his concept of naming the plants was not entirely so. Fortunately, at least some of his cultivars were described in his books. > While all of the plants in this or that hybrid cross may be > attractive, If they are "attractive" (even as a population of genetically different plants) or at least distinguishable from other cultivars, this is sufficient for cultivar selection. > usually none are so drop dead gorgous that I would want to name it > as a "cultivar" to preserve its status vegatatively. You do not need to preserve the status of a cultivar vegetatively. A cultivar does not need to be a clone (cf. my previous message). > Do I still have to choose at least one "cultivar" from this > group in order to establish a "cultivar group"? Yes. > Couldn't I just name the whole "group" without singling out one > particular plant? Not as a cultivar-group. There is of course the possibility to name the hybrid as a taxon. This taxon would include all hybrids involving the same parents (irrespective of direction and repetition of the crosses). It would require a protologue with type specimen, Latin description, etc. as outlined in the ICBN. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 13:08:42 -0500 Subject: Re:Cultivar Stuff Trent here on a Sunday afternoon. Terrible weather today so I came up to the office. From what I understand about "cultivar groups" or "grex group" (is the latter a valid term?), there must be at least two named cultivars amongst the siblings to qualify. Apparently, this same methodology applies to both Sarracenia and Nepenthes-actually, just about all other flowering plants except orchids. Sometimes all the hybrid siblings are attractive. (Example; the invalid name of N. splendiana (N. kampotiana X maxima)). All "splendiana" have a distinctive look. I can spot 'em instantly in a greenhouse full of Neps (not a frequent sight). Yet, I have not seen one that deserves cultivar status. Could this grex be given a name? Say, N. Splendid ? From what I understand, it cannot. I've got two of these plants. One is male and one is female. Could a cultivar name be based upon gender? Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Tim Malcolm Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 13:33:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: Hardware Failure or virus? I'm not sure this is the place for this or not, but it is on an 040 machine, so it's closer to the topic than a lot of stuff here recently (not that I mind or anything...) My powerbook 540 won't start up properly. It loads all the extensions, but goes into a loop of loading and quitting the finder. I tried my boot disk, but it did the same thing. My boot disk wasn't write-protected (I don't know if this is a factor or not.) Like I said, it seems to start up okay, and it will also zap PRAM and rebuild the desktop, so the problem seems to be in loading the finder (an unqualified diagnosis, I admit.) It's a pb540, 12 megs, system 7.1 Any help would be greatly apreciated. thanks tim. ------------------------ Tim Malcolm malcol01@camosun.bc.ca ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:05:44 +0000 Subject: Superthrive in the UK Hi, I'm sure this has already been mentioned recently but does anyone have a UK mail order source for Superthrive, my bottle having almost run out. Please contact me via private email. Thanks. -- Phil Wilson ################### From: "Capestany" Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:27:55 -0800 Subject: Help!!! Yesterday I noticed that a N. tobaica rooted cutting was turning black from the bottom up! :-( It has six leaves and due to its long parent "stem," it looks like a minature palm tree. Today I checked on it and saw that the blackness had climbed up another half inch and was quickly approaching the new growth. I'm pretty worried since it is the only N. tobaica I have. I suspect I might have damaged its roots while I was moving it, and recently I started using Superthrive (1 drop per gallon). All my other Neps are fine so I doubt it is due to the Superthrive or any fungus. Before I do anything drastic I wanted to get some suggestions on what to do from you guys. Thanks. dr.cap Alexandria, Virginia USA ################### From: Danny Hammons Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 18:26:10 -0600 Subject: Homepage Updated! Hello all, I've finally finished remodelling my CP homepage and put out the first batch of pictures for 1998. You can visit my homepage at: http://rampages.onramp.net/~dannyh Danny Good Growing! ################### From: Perry Malouf Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:43:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Help!!! dr.cap wrote: > Yesterday I noticed that a N. tobaica rooted cutting was turning black from > the bottom up! :-( Is it really black, or is it the dark brown you'd expect from drying out? I have a Nep hybrid that is very vine-like, and the leaves dried up on the lower part of the vine. Then the stem started to turn brown, and the brown color advanced toward the green leaves in the upper portion of the vine. It had meconcerned, but after a while it became clear that the plant was not in danger. The leaves stayed green and the growth tip kept growing. The lower part of the stem simply took on a woody characteristic as Nepenthes stems are apt to do. That portion of the stem feels as dry as a dead twig to the touch, but the plant is healthy. Regards, Perry Malouf ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 20:55:37 -0500 Subject: Re:N. tobaica Help!!! What is happening is one of two things: 1. If the stem is turning brownish, but first showing a slight yellowing, then the vine is developing its outer woody covering. No problem. 2. If a bright green stem is turning markedly black, with a nice clean line between the two colors (green/black). Big problem. To save the plant in case #2, cut off the top green part, hopefully with a few nodes, and treat it like a new cutting. There is no way to save the black portion of the stem, as it is indeed fungus infected. Make sure you cut well above the black line. Place the new cutting in a clean environment, away from any air borne spores sure to exist in the old environment. Soaking the green portion , the new cutting, in a mild systemic fungicide , such as Clearies, might help prevent further infection. Personally, I'm not so convinced this really helps. I find some Nepenthes are a little fussy about fungicides. They must be applied in small, dilute doses. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: macs@pcusers.net Date: Sun, 01 Mar 98 23:09:12 EST Subject: The Money Machine To Be Removed, reply with "remove" in the subject. ______________________________________________ Get Into the Vending Business the Right Way! * Buy Factory Direct * Brand New Equipment * 100% Financing (To Qualified Buyers) * 90 Days till first payment * List of locators supplied to buyers For Information Call Mark: 1-800-943-8363 Ext. 1 Sandy: 1-800-640-2863 Ext. 2 Lou: 1-800-917-8363 Ext. 3 Vending Machine Sales 4225 Fluer Dr. Des Moines, IA 50321-2325 Fax: 1-800-211-1066 http://www.pcusers.net/~macs/email/vendingbiz.html ______________________________________________ M & A Computer Services, or any subsidiary thereof, accept no responsibility whatsoever for the content or legality of any advertisement that appears in any mailing. It is the advertisers responsibility to check with Local, State, and Federal laws pertaining to the product or service they advertise. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:54:18 Subject: Re:Cultivar Stuff Dear Trent, > From what I understand about "cultivar groups" or "grex group" (is > the latter a valid term?), No. > there must be at least two named cultivars amongst the siblings to > qualify. Not really. There must be at least one named cultivar. But you are of course right that a group that includes only one member is rather degenerated, and there is no good reason to name it as a group (it is sufficient to name the member). > Apparently, this same methodology applies to both Sarracenia and > Nepenthes-actually, just about all other flowering plants except > orchids. Yes. > Sometimes all the hybrid siblings are attractive. (Example; the > invalid name of N. splendiana (N. kampotiana X maxima)). All > "splendiana" have a distinctive look. I can spot 'em instantly in a > greenhouse full of Neps (not a frequent sight). Yet, I have not seen > one that deserves cultivar status. So they cannot be "attractive" or have a "distinctive look". A cultivar does not need to be an awarded clone, it must only be *distinguishable* from other cultivars. > Could this grex There is no grex in non-orchids! > be given a name? Say, N. Splendid ? From what I understand, it > cannot. Everything can be given a name. It (all individuals) or a selected batch of it could be named as one cultivar _N._ 'Splendid' or if the differences between several individuals are sufficiently large (only the registrant must be convinced of this; the IRA does not judge it!), several plants can be named as cultivars. All these cultivars could be united in a _Nepenthes_ Splendid Group. > I've got two of these plants. One is male and one is female. Could a > cultivar name be based upon gender? Male and female individuals can be distinguished, so the difference would formally be qualified to (partially) base cultivar delimitations on it. In _Nepenthes_, this should not be the *only* distinguishing feature, because there are cultivars of both genders (or of undefined gender) already. Kind regards Jan ################### From: wOb Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:27:38 +0100 Subject: CP: Superthrive in France Hi there :) Just a quick note to french growers: If you're in terested in getting Superthrive in France, there's an orchid dealer in Paris (marche aux fleurs, ile de la cite) that some. Happy growing to all -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyril 'wOb' Fournillon Drop me a message: cyril.fournillon@capway.com wOb@mail.dotcom.fr wOb@chez.com Visit my HomePage: http://www.capway.com/fournill [Voice: +33 1 42 21 78 03] [Fax: +33 1 42 21 76 88] [ICQ: 1397712] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! I'm a .signature virus (mutant version), copy me to your .signature file to join in. ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 10:46:46 +0100 Subject: FREE (!) CP seeds available, part II I have had so many requests that I had to spend each night for almost two weeks packaging them. Before my wife asks me to make choices I'd prefer not to make, I hereby close my offer for CP seeds. People whose SAE or trade offers arrived me before today will still be processed. Heather Frederick (New Zealand), I don't have your e-mail address, can you contact me via e-mail, I have news regarding your seed request. Kind regards Wim ################### From: Merbach Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 12:57:16 +0800 Subject: remove > To Be Removed, reply with "remove" in the subject. > ______________________________________________ > > Get Into the Vending Business the Right Way! > > * Buy Factory Direct > * Brand New Equipment > * 100% Financing (To Qualified Buyers) > * 90 Days till first payment > * List of locators supplied to buyers > > For Information Call > > Mark: 1-800-943-8363 Ext. 1 > Sandy: 1-800-640-2863 Ext. 2 > Lou: 1-800-917-8363 Ext. 3 > > Vending Machine Sales > 4225 Fluer Dr. > Des Moines, IA 50321-2325 > Fax: 1-800-211-1066 > > http://www.pcusers.net/~macs/email/vendingbiz.html > ______________________________________________ > M & A Computer Services, or any subsidiary thereof, accept no > responsibility whatsoever for the content or legality of any > advertisement that appears in any mailing. It is the advertisers > responsibility to check with Local, State, and Federal laws > pertaining to the product or service they advertise. > --------- Marlis & Dennis Merbach --------- Diplombiologen -- http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~mfricke -- ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:58:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Bromeliads Hi Richard: >Ok, first off, I apologize for what was perhaps a rather flippant >previous post. Not at all. I do realize that many CPers feel that this topic has been beaten to death, while on certain Bromeliad lists it is almost taken for granted that Brocchinia reducta and Catopsis are carnivorous. >Brocchinia reducta produces a sweet smell that attracts ants and has a >waxy cuticle that is difficult to grip. It produces no digestive enzymes >but it does create an environment suitable for bacteria to break down >insects into absorbable nutrients (namely the water cup in the center). >It is capable of absorbing those nutrients. A lot of plants have waxy >cuticles and as stated above are capable of absorbing nutrients. Dead >insects are frequently found in the cup and experimentaly, plants "fed" >insects grow faster than those that are not fed. (Snip) >Is this carnivorous enough to be carnivorous? If you ask enough experts >I guarantee you will get answers on both sides. If Jan has not already >replied I believe he is on the NO side. What do you think? I believe that the Brocchinia has characteristics that support the entrapment of insects and that it benefits nutritionally from the decomposition of the insects. How is that for a weasel-worded response? I will have a Brocchinia reducta this spring and I am going to place it between my Nepenthes alata and a Quesnelia seideliana, another Brom. Thank you for enclosing the Brocchinia reference in _The American Naturalist_. Kind Regards, Rand Rand Nicholson New Brunswick Maritime Canada, Z 5b ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 02 Mar 1998 13:49:40 Z Subject: Bobs Affixed Aquatic Utrics Dear Bob and other interested parties on the list, As I am back in the UK for the time being I will share the experience that I have had with these plants. >Greetings, my question is directed to the Utric buffs. I >recently recieved some seed for several affixed aquatic >species, and Im wondering about the proper germination >protocol for them. I presume that I follow the normal >method but as they germinate i increase the water level to >the proper depth. Should I keep the medium wetter(soggy) >than what is normal for terrestrial >species until germination? Bob, I suspect that your affixed aquatics are from Western Australia, U.volubilis, violacea, benthamii and perhaps helix? If so this is the method I have used to successfully germinate these plants: compost approx 50:50 peat:silver sand the following rough diagram shows the approx arrangement: -I I- *********I************I****** water level I############I compost level I I I I I I Pot I I I I I------------I Basically grow the sown pots very wet! Fill the pots with compost leaving about 1cm between the compost surface and the lip of the pot. Sow the seeds on the surface - do not cover them. Place the pot in a propagator or other suitably deep container and raise the water level to be about the same or slightly higher than the compost surface. Thus there is a clear film of water over the seeds. The gap between the rim of the pot and the compost surface prevents the seeds from being washed out the pot. At temps of 20 to 25 deg C germination usually takes 6 to 8 weeks. Once the seeds have germinated they may be covered with more water to submerge the plants particularly U.volubilis and helix. U.volubilis is found flowering in water depths of 1meter. My plants are under about 5cms of water and have not yet flowered - I think I need a bigger (deeper) bucket! Hope this helps and best of luck. Kind regards Loyd ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 02 Mar 1998 13:50:25 Z Subject: Proboscidea louisianica Dear All, OK so Proboscidea is not carnivorous in the strictest sense just another sticky leafed plant. However I have got 4 seedlings to germinate after about 2.5 weeks following Allen Lowries protocol, shaving the seed coat to expose the endosperm and soaking in GA solution for 24hr as for Byblis gigantea. I would appreciate any advise on the culture of this plant and recommendations on the best compost to grow them in as this is the first contact I have had with this species. thanks Loyd ################### From: Loyd Wix Date: 02 Mar 1998 13:53:25 Z Subject: Utrics + Bromeliads Dear Stuart >Has anyone tried growing Utrics in the water reservoirs of >bromeliads; it is a practice I would like to attempt but >I'm not sure how to go about it. I have been growing a very small U.humboldtii plant in a Brocchinia tatei plant - the problem is that the Brocchinia is quite small. My large U.humboldtii plant would never fit into it but is happy to invade neighbouring pots and to infiltrate the water trays. U.nelumbifolia also grows in Bromeliads, and I think I heard/read some where of U.reniformis too. You are probably best sticking to these species if you have access to them, I thing the biggest limitation will be the size of your bromeliad. Best of luck with your attempt. Regards Loyd ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 15:28:50 +0100 Subject: Message to JoHn Haddon Sorry folks, it seems I will never be able to send a message to JoHn privately, they just keep bouncing back. John, here it comes : Dear John Your seeds finally got mailed. I have received so many requests that packing and shipping them took a lot more time than expected, but finally they all went out of the door. As I wrote before, the first seed-donation ended in chaos, this time records were kept to avoid problems. Your have first requested these seeds on 30/01/98. Your SAE/ICR arrived on 16/02/98 You have send one IRC. The seeds were send on 2/03/98. They were send to John Haddon 184 Tulketh Brow Preston England PR2 2JJ Groot-Brittanni\353 The following seeds were send to you : Dionaea muscipula (VFT) Dionaea muscipula green form (VFT green) D. filiformis ssp. Filiformis D. Intermedia S. alata S. leucophylla S. (leucophylla x purpurea venosa) x leucophylla S. minor was out of stock. S. minor x psittacina was out of stock. S. x mitchelliana was out of stock. S. oreophylla S. purpurea purpurea ?? BG Ghent S. purpurea purpurea heterophylla S. purpurea purpurea stolonifera S. purpurea venosa S. rubra Please keep me informed when the seeds arrive and the condition they were in. Happy sowing Wim ################### From: "Frank Wolpert" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 11:24:00 +0200 Subject: Robert Gibson Hi. Does anyone know how to get hold of Robert Gibson? I would appreciate it if you could send me an e-mail or "snail mail" adress. Thanks Frank Wolpert ################### From: "kirk w. martin" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 07:10:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: Moving to Boston >I apologize in advance for this non-cp related material. I have been offered a position in Boston and will be moving March 16. I wished to thank all my friends at the Pacific Northwest Carnivorous Plant Society who "hooked" me on these wonderful plants and were so generous with starts. I highly recommend this group. They have auctions, demonstrations (i.e. making Sarr. divisions; giving away the results) and tours of members greenhouses and generally just a good time comparing results and knowledge and sharing great food. I'm unsubscribing temporarily and my email address will not work in a day or two. I can be reached at my wife's account Cwilk@cdsnet.net until the 15th. After that I will obtain an account when I reach Boston and should be back up within a month. (Anyone from boston have any recommendations on providers?) P.S. my recently sprouted D. scorpiodies barely qualifies as a pygmy. It's tentacles are covered with dew and waiting for a passerby. Kirk Martin (Klamath Falls, Oregon) ################### From: Oliver T Massey CFS Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:50:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Pinguicula caerulea > > Does P.caerulea self-pollinate? Mine flowered a couple of months ago, so > I attempted to self the flowers (the second came up after the first had > wilted) but it's been a month or so since the flowers wilted off and they > really don't look like they're doing anything like making seeds. I'm sure > I got pollen where it was supposed to go (Thanks Bob! :) so if they will > self, they should be doing it. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com > Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site > Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing > Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) Derek: Yes, they are self fertile, but no they will not self pollinate. You have to help out. :) If the flower has been off for more than two or three days and you are not seeing a swelling seed pod, then somehow they were not pollinated. Tom in Fl ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:42:33 -0700 Subject: Cultivar Stuff Wow. At first I thought I was the only one who was confused by all this and thought that I was having a private conversation with Jan across the list. There has been some discussion about creating "cultivar groups" without naming a parent as a cultivar. If I am following this discussion, it sounds like this could be functionally achieved within the established rules by naming a cultivar (with parents of parentage X and Y) and specifying that this cultivar can reproduced either vegetatively (from any plant of that cultivar) or sexually by crossing parents X and Y. While this would not actually define an official "cultivar group" it would give a name to a group of plants with the same parentage. This cultivar will potentially have a great deal of variability in its appearance. If there are exceptional specimens of this cultivar, then they could be given a different cultivar name and specified that this new cultivar can only be reproduced vegetatively. Is this correct? Would there be undesirable ramifications to this? Richard Ellis Boulder, CO ################### From: "St-Jean, Rob ES.SE" Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:58:13 -0500 Subject: Nepenthes rajah advice Dear CP growers, I've been growing a N. rajah seedling for about 6 months in long fiber sphagnum moss. The plant was originally from tissue culture and had no roots. It has now produced roots and has increased in size slightly. The plant keeps loosing its older leaves as it produces new leaves. This has gone on since I acquired the plant. At the moment it has produced two new leaves in the last 3 weeks and two of the oldest leaves are turning yellow. The plant does not appear to be dying but something is not quite right and I suspect it is the choice of the growing medium. I give the plant 15 hours of light under 4 fluorescent tubes and it receives high relative humidity. I use rain and distilled water. Temperature during the day is around 74F and night temperature is around 62F. Thanks in advance for your help, Robert ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Mon, 02 Mar 1998 20:20:59 -0500 Subject: Re:More Cultivars Jan. Thank you for your expertise on the hybrid cultivar issue. I feel like I must be driving you crazy sometimes with the questions. I look forward to the articles on this subject soon to appear in CPN. I have spoken to Bruce Bednar about this and next week I will begin photographing his cultivars and hybrids. The "splendiana" will be called Splendid Diana, the male and female looking virtually identical, but easily distinguished from all other Nepenthes hybrids. This is okay? As a side note to you folks out at California Carnivores: I obtained a plant from you folks a few years ago, a N. thorelii "JAM' X N. Superba Mixta. (I assume this second name is really Mixta Superba). It gets ohh's and ahh's whenever displayed. Peter, how about a cultivar name? It is far too distinguished to be nameless. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: Ben BK Sinclair Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 14:46:10 +1200 Subject: Intro + Nep Tissue culture Questions Hello everybody I'm Ben, I have been interested in growing cps for some years now and have finally got around to starting a reasonible collection. I have around 30 neps and 14 other cps including some Sarras, VFTs and Cepholotus. I have a few questions about the tissue culture of Nepenthes seed. Does Nep seed need a dormancy period and if so how do you break the dormancy ? What is the best way to surface sterilize the seed and what sort of media do I put the seed on ? I had thought about using hormone free MS media. Once germination has taken place do I need to put the seed on a proliferation media of some kind containing any hormones ? Thank you in advance for your advice. BEN. ################### From: Jaap Noordeloos Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 10:34:30 +0100 Subject: dipsacus A few years ago I read that they discovered a new carnivorous plant; Dipcacus follunum. Since that time I heard nothing about this plant. I want to know if this plant is realy a carnivorous plant? ################### From: "Andrew Kelly" Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:52:23 +0800 Subject: subscribe Dear CP Digest please advise how to subscribe. Many thanks. ################### From: "Andrew Kelly" Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:53:43 +0800 Subject: subscribe subscribe ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:02:24 Subject: Re: Cultivar Stuff Dear Richard, > There has been some discussion about creating "cultivar groups" without > naming a parent... You mean a member (of the cultivar-group), not a parent (of a hybrid). > ... as a cultivar. If I am following this discussion, it > sounds like this could be functionally achieved within the established > rules by naming a cultivar (with parents of parentage X and Y) and > specifying that this cultivar can reproduced either vegetatively (from > any plant of that cultivar) or sexually by crossing parents X and Y. Correct. But the sexual addition is not even necessary (see below). > While this would not actually define an official "cultivar group" it > would give a name to a group of plants with the same parentage. Once it is named, the first cultivar of a given parentage can become the first member of a new cultivar-group that can be established officially. The cultivar and its group may be established at the same time. NB: The ICBN defines cultivar-groups as assemblages of "two or more" named cultivars. There is, however, no rule that precludes establishment of cultivar-groups if only one established cultivar to be included exists at the time when the cultivar-group is designated. In other words, the rule that defines cultivar-groups (Art.4.1.ICNCP) does not begin with "In order to be established...". Note 3. to Art.4. tells us: "An assemblage which is derived from a cross in which both parents are known, and which has one or more shared characters that makes recognition of value, may also be designated as a cultivar- group." Please note that there is no statement on the size of the "assemblage" in this note. In order to meet the formal requirements, at least one further cultivar must be added to a "monotypic" cultivar-group. Otherwise, said cultivar-group would be quite useless, anyway. > If there are exceptional specimens of this cultivar, then they > could be given a different cultivar name and specified that this new > cultivar can only be reproduced vegetatively. Is this correct? Yes. > Would there be undesirable ramifications to this? Not necessarily undesirable. I would, however, propose a slightly different procedure. It would be possible (but not mandatory) to describe as the first cultivar of a given parentage (and of a new cultivar-group that may be co-extensive with the hybrid) a plant that does have some characteristics to distinguish it from other plants of the same parentage. This would allow the registrant to give a more precise definition of the particular cultivar's characteristics so future cultivars in the same cultivar-group can be defined more easily, and the (preferred but again not mandatory) criterion of vegetative reproduction could be applied. In all other respects, the strategy you proposed can be recommended. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Peter Cole Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 15:26:30 +0000 Subject: Re: Proboscidea louisianica > Dear All, > > OK so Proboscidea is not carnivorous in the strictest sense > just another sticky leafed plant. However I have got 4 > seedlings to germinate after about 2.5 weeks following Allen > Lowries protocol, shaving the seed coat to expose the > endosperm and soaking in GA solution for 24hr as for Byblis > gigantea. > > I would appreciate any advise on the culture of this plant > and recommendations on the best compost to grow them in as > this is the first contact I have had with this species. I use cactus compost for Proboscidea and Ibicella, and they seem to thrive. I also find they germinate fine if you just soak the seeds for 24 hrs and sow into a pot standing in water. Once they germinate, let the pot dry out to just moist (not as critical as eg: Drosophyllum, but the roots may rot if they're permanently water-logged, especially while they're small.) They grow well in a garden bed or border if you give them plenty of grit and compost, and this will let them really show themselves off (they can get BIG!) Otherwise use as large a pot as possible (they'll grow in a 3", but they'll stay very small,) and feed with a phostrogen tablet or two every 3-4 weeks. I have found GA to have an adverse effect at high (ie: B.gigantea,) concentrations, though I only tried it once. I think perhaps Allen's getting a bit carried away with the GA3. They really aren't difficult - that's why they're such a menace in more tropical countries. I guess we're lucky they can't survive our winters! Keep pets and children away from the seed pods - they're very hazardous (one of our cats got one stuck on its head the year before last, and that was *not* funny!) You might want to poke corks on the fangs (or cut them off before they lignify,) if you want to make seed. The flowers are beautiful and unusual smelling (not unpleasant, just impossible to quite describe - lemon? chocolate?) and it is of course an annual (you doubtless already know that,) so collect seeds when the bees have been at the flowers (they like them, so I'm not sure if it self-pollinates.) Hope this helps, Peter ps: If you can't wait, there's a photo of P.louisianica in flower on my webpage (in my photo album,) and the foliage is just like the Ibicella photos. pps: I make my own cactus compost - equal parts of houseplant compost, perlite and coarse sand. I've no idea if it's good for cacti - I don't grow them :-) +++ Peter Cole, 17 Wimmerfield Cr.,Killay,SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK +++ mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk - http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ ++++ Carnivorous Plants, seeds and tissue culture kits for sale ++++ ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 10:15:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: Barry's comment on Cultivars Hello folks, Jan has been working hard to clarify issues of what constitutes a cultivar, etc. I want to point out that Carnivorous Plant Newsletter will also be doing a great deal in the future to make naming cultivars an easier and less opaque process. In the June issue we will have at least three new cultivars described, and more are in the cards. So if you are still confused by this stuff then, look to those examples for clarification. Finally, if you are really interested in this, I suggest you go to the library and check out the copy of the nomenclatural code that may be there. It is not the easiest read---I read through the book about three times before I started to really figure it out, but it is straightforward. Cheers Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: "Sundew Sundew" Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 11:23:47 PST Subject: Some germination results An update for anyone whos interested - So far, I've gotten germination of recently harvested seed of D.nidiformis, madagascariensis Rhodesia, mad. mad., intermedia Gran Sabana and, surprisingly, from seed around 8 years old, 3/12 D.regia, some "D.cuccicaulis"(=venusta?) and possibly D.glabripes. I'd better pull the rest of the seeds out of the fridge and give them a try too. I wonder if the size of the regia seed contributed to their remaining viable. Assuming all goes well, I may have extra of the first 4 if anyone's interested in trading later on. Otherwise, this milled sphagnum I used is very slowly growing algae. Nothing like what happened to my last batch of peat though. I noticed some moss growth but quickly discarded it as I havwe learned my lesson about ignoring that sort of thing. Thanks to everyone who offered me input on my soil problems! Happy Growing Matt H. ################### From: "Mr. Olivier Marthaler" Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:28:55 +0100 Subject: Nep-seedlings Hello everybody! Just discovering the "marvels" of e-mail! Is anybody interested in swapping nepenthes seedlings, grown in my terrariums (traditional culture, not from in-vitro)? All the best, Olivier ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean De Witte) Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 21:11:38 +0000 Subject: home page OK, flame me, I have put a new uncomplete home page. I will try to listen to your critiscism (ha ha ha, believe it) and modify on the fly. At least the pictures of the four new nepenthes are there. To avoid all misunderstandings, they are not mine: three belong to Phill Mann and one to Olivier Marthaler, and I do not claim credit! Take care, mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de http://home.t-online.de/home/j.dewitte public key :http://www.nic.surfnet.nl/pgp/pks-toplev.html ################### From: BREWER_CHARLES@ecomail.damneck.navy.mil Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 16:54:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Carnivorous Bromeliads Hi All, Charles here in Va. I have some concerns growing Brocchinia reducta and need some professional advice. I currently have two plants that were given to me a year ago. One plant is currently growing in the greenhouse while the other plant is growing inside a large aquarium, inside my house. I admit, I can just about grow anything including a dead branch, but the Brocchinia reducta has me a little stumped. My plants seem to grow fair in the spring and summer, but they seem to just hang on during winter. My greenhouse plant seems to suffer greatly during winter months even though the greenhouse stays well above freezing, but cool during the evening hours and very warm during day hours. If there's anyone who would like to share their growing tips with the group, please send them in. This would includes: best soil to use, growing conditions, winter conditions, moisture needs and of course what not to do or anything else they have to offer. The more responses, the better. I'm all ears or should I say eyes. Thanks in advance, Charles Brewer ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 17:51:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: Brocchinea growing tips Hi Folks, Here's how I grow my Brocchinea reducta. I now have dozens, though only 6 clones so far. They are potted in a very sandy mix of mainly sand and peat, with some perlite thrown in. Mostly sand. They are grown in a heated greenhouse with a south exposure that is shaded to about 40% from late april-early may until oct.1 or so. Otherwise it is only the shade value of the corrugated fibreglass and plastic, aprox 15-20% or less. Temps in winter when the heat is on are 50-55' by night, 75-85+ by day, depending on whether or not we get sunshine. I have seen it spike 100'f on sunny days before I get out there to remove the styrofoam slab that keeps the cold air from leaking into the vents at night. temps in summer when the heater is off, and the slab removed from the vents are 60'f by night and 85' by day. Humidity averages in winter about 60% or more, summer is around 40% before I water. I really need to install a swamp cooler, when they no longer cost $600.00 that is. I water in winter about every third or fourth day, depending on the state of the Nepenthes that are in the greenhouse. In the summer I water heavily every day. Feeding...none at all. Basically I grow Nepenthes and a couple of dozen funny looking plants masquarading as Nepenthes. These bromeliads grow very well, two have bloomed and both have produced many pups. Any one want to buy a pup. I ignore the bromeliads, treating them like Nepenthes. They seem to like this. Hints on understanding the language of Brocchinea. If the leaves are pale, or yellowish and the plant looks like a department store Bromeliad, ie all flared out up top, then it is not getting adequate light. It likes LOTS of light. It should be in a tight tube like roll to be happiest. Mine are close, but if I give them more light I will sun burn the Nepenthes. The 'tank' should be kept watered. Water with fresh water from the top. Copper is deadly to Bromeliads. Beware treasted lumber and some insecticides. Scale is attraced to Brocchinea. Oil/soap/water spray works wonders, especially when used in conjunction with a cotten swab that removes the visible pests. This way you can see if there is a return. Good luck and any questions, feel free to ask! Good growing Andrew ################### From: Matt Miller Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 21:56:51 -0800 Subject: Drosera gigantea Hello CPers, I was wondering if anyone one this list is growing Drosera gigantea or knows any places that sell this plant as I would like to purchase one. If you grow this plant and you have any extras to sell or any seeds to sell, please e-mail me privatly. Thanks, Matt Miller ################### From: "Erik van Zuilekom" <9623426@rgo.sun.ac.za> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:48:33 +0200 Subject: Brocchinia reducta Hi All, Erik from South Africa here, Charles Brewer wrote: > Charles here in Va. I have some concerns growing Brocchinia reducta > and need some professional advice. Very far off from professional, but I have had the plant for a few years now and seems to be growing well, pretty strong. S heres my 2cents worth... > My plants seem to grow fair in >the spring and summer, but they seem to just hang on during >winter. My greenhouse plant seems to suffer greatly during >winter months even though the greenhouse stays well above >freezing, but cool during the evening hours and very warm during > day hours. I so far have not grown either Nepenthes or Brocchinia in a greenhouse, my plants are placed on cement and tube benches with slasto underneath their entire length. 50% shade and a little morning sun. The plants are sprayed once a day, they have a water collection bath underneath the Nep's and Brocch. for humidity reasons. Here in the Cape the temps range from Summer 18-40C and winter 15-30C with rains concentrated in the winters. Humidity ranges from 40-60% year through. >This would includes: >best soil to use, growing conditions, winter conditions, >moisture needs and of course what not to do or anything else >they have to offer. I use fern fibre, vermiculite, scoria and bark chips in varying amounts(mainly fern fibre), the plants tend to become more "tubular" when experienceing more arid conditions and strong light. Their colour obviously becomes lighter(more green/yellow...another chance, I'm *colourblind*) I have found that my plants tend to hate too peaty a mix and the better the drainage(hence peat strictly left out!), the better my plants have tended to grow. Humidity-wise the plants dont seem to demand as high humidity as Nep's(but dont just take my word for it!). My plants enjoy ample sunlight(morning sun and 50% shade during the warmer periods). No fertilizing as yet has seemed necessary. Though I do recomend a slightly higher humidity than my 40%. All the best, I hope this helps or at least provokes a few laughs. Erik >>>**Erik van Zuilekom**<<< 117 Panorama Drive, Stellenryk 7530 Cape Town, South Africa. E-mail:9623426@rgo.sun.ac.za Phone: (027) 021 99-1807 ################### From: Stefan Sehnbruch Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:56:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Intro + Nep Tissue culture Questions Ben BK Sinclair wrote: > [...] > I have a few questions about the tissue culture of Nepenthes seed. > Does Nep seed need a dormancy period and if so how do you break the > dormancy ? [...] A little hint for growers interested in tissue culture: There is a listserver about that topic. To subscribe send the message sub plant-tc yourname to the adress: listserv@tc.umn.edu Hope I could help you -- Stefan ################### From: wOb Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 13:19:38 +0100 Subject: CP: Off topic: registration Hello from France :) Sorry to post here but I've been unable to contact Mr. Walker. My problem is that my email address changed and I'm unable to make the listserver know..... I've sent a message to walker@opus.hpl.hp.com but I got no answer and the list server stills sends the posts to my old address. If anyone who has admin privilege on the list read this, please update my adress: it was cyril.fournillon@inforoute.cgs.fr and it should now be wOb@chez.com Thanks in advance and sorry to all for the bother. Happy growing Cyril PS: I also subscribed to the PP mailing list by mistake, so please take me off this list. PS2: sorry for my english -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyril 'wOb' Fournillon Drop me a message: wOb@chez.com wOb@mail.dotcom.fr fournill@capway.com Visit my HomePage: http://www.capway.com/fournill [Voice: +33 1 42 21 78 03] [Fax: +33 1 42 21 76 88] [ICQ: 1397712] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! I'm a .signature virus (mutant version), copy me to your .signature file to join in. ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 07:21:49 PST Subject: cultivar comments Sorry for the delay in getting this message out, it got sidetracked for the last week. Dear Jan, >> For example, if I were the first to cross S.leucophylla with >> S.purpurea, and wanted to formally establish this cross as S.x >> 'mitchelliana,' >You can either validate the scientific taxon name S. * mitchelliana >(which has been done already) I think I am starting to understand some of the basic principles that you are describing. I understand that cultivars and cultivar groups must be formally published(BTW, I'm looking forward to learning the protocol. I believe you mentioned it a few days ago.) in a well distributed periodical or book, like the CPN, in order to be recognized. Now, how can a scientific taxon be validated(using your words). With all the complex hybrids being created with Nepenthes and Sarracenia, I think Peter is correct in mentioning a need for naming new taxons which include these complex crosses. It's obvious that newly created/discovered clones should be formally named by the creator; however, what if that person doesn't do so. Could another person undertake the formalities of naming on behalf of the creator? I mention this, not only because of people like the Nep growers in FL, but also because of the situation being created with Dionaea. In the last few years many new variants/mutants of Dionaea have become readily available and nobody has formally named any(except for the 'Aki Ryu' and 'Royal Red'). It has become a problem as many names for the same plant have been informally created. As time goes on, and growers create their own clones, records and genuine plant material will be lost and the situation may never be resolved. I feel enlightened by this whole thread, as it is obvious that the ICNCP is confusing. Perhaps the lack of understanding of the ICNCP and the cultivar naming process could explain growers unwillingness to formally name their plants. I think as co-editor of the CPN and expert on taxonomy, it is up to you Jan to "walk us through" this process. I appreciate your patience and willingness to educate us. Thanks, Stefan ################### From: wOb Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:16:22 +0100 Subject: CP: various questions Hello from France :) This time not an off-topic message .... I have a few questions for you CP experts: 1- Is the D. Capensis alba a slower grower than the red variety ? Or is it my plant that is weaker than its red sister ? 2- A friend of mine just brought me a little bag full of dead flies. he got them from a telecom site, a large room, from where they couldn't escape and died by hundreds. Can I feed them to my Sarrs ? VFTs ? Drosera ? Or should I just put the bag in the trashcan ? Thanks in advance for your help. Happy growing to all. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Cyril 'wOb' Fournillon Drop me a message: wOb@chez.com wOb@mail.dotcom.fr fournill@capway.com Visit my HomePage: http://www.capway.com/fournill [Voice: +33 1 42 21 78 03] [Fax: +33 1 42 21 76 88] [ICQ: 1397712] -------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi! I'm a .signature virus (mutant version), copy me to your .signature file to join in. ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 17:32:48 Subject: Re: cultivar comments Dear Stefan, > I understand that cultivars and cultivar groups must > be formally published(BTW, I'm looking forward to learning the protocol. > I believe you mentioned it a few days ago.) Yes, but I will mention it again for those who are still interested: ICNCP: Trehane, P., Brickell, C.D., Baum, B.R., Hetterscheid, W.L.A., Leslie, A.C., McNeill, J., Spongberg, S.A., Vrugtman, F. (1995) "International Code for the Nomenclature of Cultivated Plants - 1995", Quarterjack Publishing, Wimborne, UK Available through Koeltz Scientific Books (www.koeltz.com). DISCLAIMER: I am *not* affiliated with Koeltz in any way. The above paragraph is neutral information without any guarantee. > Now, how can a scientific taxon be validated(using your words). By following the ICBN. > With all the > complex hybrids being created with Nepenthes and Sarracenia, I think > Peter is correct in mentioning a need for naming new taxons which > include these complex crosses. Well, this is a question of the philosophy applied. From a taxon name, the direction or repetition of a cross cannot be deduced because all hybrids involving the same parent taxa have to be united under the same name. > It's obvious that newly created/discovered clones should be formally > named by the creator; however, what if that person doesn't do so. Could > another person undertake the formalities of naming on behalf of the > creator? Yes, if the "creator" (the ICNCP calls this person "originator") agrees. > I mention this, not only because of people like the Nep growers > in FL, but also because of the situation being created with Dionaea. In > the last few years many new variants/mutants of Dionaea have become > readily available and nobody has formally named any(except for the 'Aki > Ryu' and 'Royal Red'). It has become a problem as many names for the > same plant have been informally created. As time goes on, and growers > create their own clones, records and genuine plant material will be lost > and the situation may never be resolved. All this is very true. And this is the reason why registration of cultivar names was introduced and why the ICPS has applied for IRA status. > I feel enlightened by this whole thread, as it is obvious that the > ICNCP is confusing. It is not so confusing if it is read with the intention to understand the idea behind it. In fact, there are several appendices and "filters" to explain in short form how cultivar naming works. Most Articles are annotated profusely and explained by examples. > Perhaps the lack of understanding of the ICNCP and > the cultivar naming process could explain growers unwillingness to > formally name their plants. Perhaps. Additionally, the ICNCP has changed in 1995, while some growers continued to follow the old Code. > (...) it is up to you Jan to "walk us through" this process. I think we have covered a considerable distance already, and our discussions have been of great help for me to understand what are the questions and possible problems we have to solve with potential authors and registrants. BTW: It is not only the duty of an IRA to store and collect data on cultivars but also to distribute and publish these data. So you may regard these discussions as our regular service for the cp public. Kind regards Jan ################### From: Michiel.vanBennekom@STUDENTEN.TBPT.WAU.NL Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 18:13:20 -0100 Subject: pollen for N.alata Hello CP friends, I have a small question to ask: I discovered that my flowering N. alata is female. My question is: does anyone have pollen to cross my N. alata with? If you have some, please let me know as soon as possible for I don't know how long it will continue to flower... Many thanks and waiting for response, Greetings, Michiel Michiel.vanBennekom@studenten.tbpt.wau.nl ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 04 Mar 98 17:57 EST Subject: Re: Peter D. Comment: I tried to send this a couple days ago, but it has come back! Hello Peter, > I don't know if Mr. Evan's comments on the publication of > cultivars and > laziness were directed to me, for if he knew me, he would certainly > know I am far from being a lazy person. Actually, no those comments aren't directed at you. I'm just a satisfied customer of your shop, California Carnivores. But thank's for all that info on the status of your plants and why some growers, like you, may wait to name a plant. I'm glad to see that many messages have been generated on this subject and that people are learning what to do, and hopefully what not to do (ie. name something N.Splendiana.) I just felt there was some breakdown in communications on this subject (whether it be on the side of the growers not being thorough enough, or the more scientifically endowed CPer's who can offer help/knowledge, or both) that it really needed to be straightened out within the CP communtiny. Looking at all these messages back and forth on this subject, I see there was indeed a lot of confusion and misinformation on cultivars going around. But now if someone asks, I can can give them the *correct* answers and not, "Well I don't really know..." Thank's go out to Jan for fielding so many questions so thoroughly! > does not, to me, mean that they are "published". Since I am a strong > supporter of the Society, I will be publishing these plants in The > Newsletter, as they become available, and I urge others to do so as > well. Sounds great! Good Growing, Dave Evans ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 15:34:18 -0800 (PST) Subject: Pinguicula emarginata Are there any ICPS members out there who are growing Pinguicula emarginata? I am not trying to find samples of the plant, rather just a person who has either seen the plant in the wild or (even better) grown it. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: "Semanchuk, Phil J" Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:44:26 -0500 Subject: RE: CP: various questions > 2- A friend of mine just brought me a little bag > full of dead flies. > he got them from a telecom site, a large room, from > where they couldn't escape and died by hundreds. > Can I feed them to my Sarrs ? VFTs ? Drosera ? Or > should I just put the bag in the trashcan ? wOb, You could feed them to your CPs, but I think all of them (with the possible exception of the Sarracenia) need their prey to be moving in order to trigger trapping and/or digestion. I have had success in feeding dead insects to my VFTs and triggering the traps with the tip of a handy pine needle. I have also fed my Sarracenia small dead insects with no ill effects observed. BTW your English is great. Much better than my French. Avec regards, Phil ################### From: Eric Cumbee Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 20:49:02 -0500 Subject: update Hi, This is Eric . I would like to thank all of you for your help on my 1998 Science Fair Project. yesterday I went to District Science Fair. I still keep thinking this is a dream, but I won the Grand Prize Award for best overall project at the fair. I also won a 2-year tuition scholarship to South Georgia College which is in Douglas; it is about 30 minutes drive from where I live. Also I will be going to State Science Fair in April, and I will try to do my best. If anybody has any tips about the fair, I would be glad to hear them. I have never made it past district. I thank everybody again for your help with advice and logistics. Sincerely, Eric Cumbee ################### From: Palindro Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:39:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dormancy question I have a small family of Serracenia Purpurea and Dionaea. I just found out recently all about domancy and what can happen to the plants if they are kept at non-dormant temperatures too long. I wonder about this because these plants have been with me for more than two years at a constant 72 degrees F. They are still in the best of health and are growing to accomodate their tank. My questions are: 1. Should I create an artificial dormancy now since they have not had one in two years or just wait until next winter? 2. If 35-45 degrees is an ideal dormancy temperature for my SP, would a refrigerator serve as a winter home for them? -Palindro ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 20:40:57 EST Subject: Re: CP Jan, Taxon Jan It was over two years ago, that Bob Sundew and I went down to Ft. Myers, to see a carnivorous collection that one of his friends had. In the trip a plant with a taxon (do I have the term right) rubragulfensis *psittacina came into my posession. Although it didn't have a Cultivar name it still is a neat looking plant. Would a plant like this qualify as a cultivar. ################### From: j sullivan Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 22:05:06 -0200 Subject: Insectivorous bromeliads I would like to correspond with hobbyists experienced in growing either Brocchinia or Catopsis, or in discussing their biology. I plan to start growing some fragrant Tillandsia spp. and have become interested in getting involved with what I describe to my wife as "carnivorous pineapples." Jack ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:14:32 Subject: Re: CP Jan, Taxon Dear Randall, > (do I have the term right) rubragulfensis... _Sarracenia rubra subsp. gulfensis_ is supposedly what you mean. > ...*psittacina came into my > posession. Although it didn't have a Cultivar name it still is a neat > looking plant. Would a plant like this qualify as a cultivar. Any neat looking plant is qualified as a new cultivar if there is no established cultivar name for it already. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Duffield" Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 20:20:12 +1300 Subject: Re: Cacti seeds prices and information Hi I would like some prices of any kind of cacti seeds and I would like some information about cacti. My address is the following:- Grant Duffield 185 Taharepa Road, Taupo. North Island New Zealand My E-Mail Address is:- duffield@reap.org.nz Thank You Yours Sincerely, Grant Duffield ################### From: ADAMEC@butbn.cas.cz Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:39:22 +0010 Subject: Aldrovanda for sale again ALDROVANDA VESICULOSA FOR SALE AGAIN ! Inst. Botany in Trebon, Czech Rep., offers adult Aldrovanda vesiculosa plants or turions (turions preferred) for sale for CP growers, scientific or Nature Conservation organizations, for (re)introduction activities. The plants from E Poland are cultivated outdoors. They will be sent by post mail. Price: 1 plant or turion: 8 DM (or 5 USD) + postage (10 DM or 6 USD); minimum sale: 20 plants; for the order over 100 plants: price 5 DM (or 3 USD)/plant. Cultivation instructions are included on request. Contact address: Lubomir Adamec, Institute of Botany, Dukelska 145, CZ-379 82 TREBON, Czech Republic; tel. 00420-333-721156; fax - 721136; E-mail: adamec@butbn.cas.cz. Lubomir Adamec Botanicky Ustav AVCR ################### From: Nigel Hurneyman Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:55:52 -0000 Subject: Re: dipsacus Hi Jaap, I once saw a list of 10 unlikely book titles, in a magazine devoted to such trivia, which included 'The Common Teasel As A Carnivorous Plant'. Dipsacus spp tend to accumulate water in the leaf axils and small insects can drown there but the plant does not excrete any enzymes to digest them so fails the strict test of carnivory. However, given a few million years they might develop into fully-fledged pitcher plants, and then in a few more million years they might develop the capability to excrete digestive enzymes. NigelH ################### From: "Andreas Wistuba" Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 18:12:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Pinguicula emarginata On 4 Mar 98 at 15:51, Barry Meyers-Rice wrote: > > Are there any ICPS members out there who are growing Pinguicula > emarginata? I am not trying to find samples of the plant, rather > just a person who has either seen the plant in the wild or (even > better) grown it. > > Barry > > ------------------------ > Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice > Carnivorous Plant Newsletter > Conservation Coeditor > bazza@ucdavis.edu > http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html > > > I even sell it:-) Bye, Andreas Andreas Wistuba; Mudauer Ring 227; 68259 Mannheim; Germany Phone: +49-621-705471 / +49-621-7152027 Fax: +49-621-7152028 E-Mail: andreas@wistuba.com ################### From: Stuart Haxton Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:05:36 +0000 Subject: auto irrigation system! Hello all, During a visit to a garden centre, I saw an irrigation system on display which waters your greenhouse plants automatically, whenever you want, without any kind of supervision, by means of drip heads and/or capillary matting.(it only uses gravity as power and therefore will not supply the pressure for misting). I saw that this could be adapted to filling trays, watering pots or damping a greenhouse floor (something that can be very tedious if you have to do it all the time.) The system cost 59.95. Ridiculous, because all it really consisted of was a tank and a simple system of tubing. I will attempt to explain it, as I went home and managed to construct exacty the same system and it cost me nothing more than the following materials; 1 old _plastic_ oil can with hollow handle (or similar) washed. At least 1m of flexible plastic tubing, with a bore of no more than 6mm. Any kind of sealant for plastics. Around 30 cm of very thick wire, bent into an 's' hook shape. A funnel. That's it. Here's the instructions; 1. Cut away the top section of the can to leave the main 'bucket' part, leaving the handle intact, and also a flap higher than the rest of the rim. 2. Bore a hole in the base of the can of the same diameter as your tubing. 3. Feed the tubing through the hole so that it projects around 30 cm below the base. (this provides the gravity for a good flow.) 4. bend the tubing over (no kinking please) and feed it down the handle of the can until it reaches the base. The apex of the curve in the tube _must_ be below the rim of the can. 5. Seal the tube to the can where it goes through the hole in the base to stop leaks. 6. Now drill a hole in the flap you left in the rim. Hang the tank at the highest point possible in your greenhouse, at least 1m higher than the plants you want watered, or the greenhouse floor (if you require damping-down) 7. Using a regular garden horse, bring water into the greenhouse, from a header tank of rainwater (high enough above the siphon tank to allow water to run from one to the other) or the mains, or even a R.O. unit if you are actually watering the plants, (especially Nepenthes). Using a tap or a valve from one of these sources adjust the flow so that water merely trickles into the siphon tank. 8. Just below the downpipe from the siphon tank, fix the funnel to the greenhouse wall, connected to another tube which will carry away the water to whatever you want it for. 9. ADJUSTING THE TIMING If you want your greenhouse to be damped down, say, every hour, simply adjust the amount of water going into the tank so that it takes 1hr to reach the level of the bend in the tube. Then, like magic, the siphon will be activated by gravity, and water will begin flowing at surprising speed from the tank. 10. ADJUSTING THE AMOUNT Obviously if you use a 10 gallon drum for a 6x4 greenhouse you will have a flood of biblical proportions every hour. Therefore choose a tank that suits your needs. If you want to regulate the amount really accurately, measure the amount of water the tank takes, say 2 pints. If you only want it to give your plants 1 pint, (eg. if it's winter and you want less watering), get hold of a 1 pt bottle, fill it with water and put it in the tank. This means that less water will go through the siphon. This will result in more frequent waterings, due to the faster filling rate. Simply reduce the supply rate by the right amount. You can fix up quite a complicated network of watering tubes all round your greenhouse...or windowboxes...or flowerbeds... -------- That's all. If all that sounded a little confusing, I've drawn a diagram of it in grayscale .BMP and I can mail it to anyone who's interested. All of this costs around 5 to build... a saving of hmmmmm...54.95! D'ye think it's worth it? -- Stuart Haxton ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 17:08:25 -0800 (PST) Subject: Randall's potential Cultivar > Jan > It was over two years ago, that Bob Sundew and I went down to Ft. > Myers, to see a carnivorous collection that one of his friends had. In > the trip a plant with a taxon > (do I have the term right) rubragulfensis *psittacina came into my > posession. Although it didn't have a Cultivar name it still is a neat > looking plant. Would a plant like this qualify as a cultivar. Randall, Barry Meyers-Rice here (another CPN coeditor)... Yes, your Sarracenia rubra gulfensis x psittacina might be a really neat looking plant, but aren't all Sarracenia? There is no reason you can't make this plant a cultivar, but is it really worth being a cultivar? A cultivar should be an outstanding plant. I am attached to all my plants and care about them, but think that cultivars should be the finest of the fine. Is your plant special when compared to other S. rubra gulfensis x psittacina plants? I also think that a cultivar plant should be propagated into several specimens and should be in at least a few people's collections (instead of a single plant in one person's collection). What a pity it would be for a cultivar to be described and then wiped off the planet because the only plant died. These are my own opinions---the cultivar code says you could name just about anything you want, even a plant which is bland and featureless, impressive only for the way it succumbs to disease and pests! Barry ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 21:11:13 -0500 Subject: Nep Growers in FL >It's obvious that newly created/discovered clones should be formally >named by the creator; however, what if that person doesn't do so. Could >another person undertake the formalities of naming on behalf of the >creator? I mention this, not only because of people like the Nep growers >in FL, Trent here in FL. The Nep growers who has been making these hybrids since the early 1980's, mainly Bruce Bednar and Clyde Bramblett, named their hybrids using the methods of their predecessors, people like James Taplin and Veitch Nurseries. As far as they knew, their was no registration authority, and in fact, had been told to register their hybrids by publishing the parents and resultant cultivar groups in the CPN. Please check your back issues from the late 1980's and early 1990's to verify this fact. Now they are told (by me) that what they have done is incorrect. I am currently photographing, in detail, specific cultivars and examples from cultivar groups, of these many hybrids. They will be re-named to ICNCP standards, and appropriately described once the proper format is fully understood. As an example, Splendiana will be renamed Splendid Diana. Luckily, Bruce has kept notes on all his hybridizing. There is much work to be done. It will just take time. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, FL ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 23:07:09 EST Subject: Re: CP Jan, taxon Sarracenia rubra Sub sp. gulfensis * psittacina Cultivar Knateater ################### From: Derek Glidden Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:54:06 -0500 (EST) Subject: U.dichotoma selfing Does anyone know if U.dichotoma will self-pollinate or is self-fertile? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Derek Glidden http://www.illusionary.com Illusionary.com Home of the Pagan Resource Site Web development, database, graphics and general plumbing Linux, FreeBSD, Apache, MySQL, PostgreSQL, PHP (Say No to NT!) ################### From: j.dewitte@t-online.de (Jean De Witte) Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 18:15:23 +0000 Subject: apologies Hi all, Phill objected to having the pictures of the Philippine on my web-site. I hereby apologise in public (as I said I never claimed ownership) and have removed them from the web. Take care, mailto:j.dewitte@t-online.de http://home.t-online.de/home/j.dewitte public key :http://www.nic.surfnet.nl/pgp/pks-toplev.html ################### From: "WG05 Meadors Tony P. AO2" Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 12:53:46 -0800 Subject: RE: auto irrigation system! I am interested in your irrigation system. Please send me the Bitmap you have drawn. > \//_ > (o o) >--oOO--(_)--OOo----------------------------------------- > Tony D. Meadors > USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) > Weapons Department / WADM > FPO AP 96629-2840 > tmeadors@vinson.navy.mil > .oooO Oooo. >---( )-( )------------------------------------------- > \ ( ) / \_)(_/ ################### From: coro63@ihug.co.nz (Brian D Quinn) Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:31:36 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: P. takakii Hi Can anyone please tell me the Section that Pinguicula takakii belongs too? I believe it is in Subgenus Isoloba but need to know the section. Thanks in advance! Best regards, Brian D Quinn 66 Great Barrier Road, Waiheke Island, Auckland, New Zealand coro63@ihug.co.nz ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:27:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: Randalls potential cultivar II Hi folks, I also have the s. rubra gulfensis x S. psittacina AND an anthocyanin free form of same. They are neat clones, but not ones I would give names to as I did not make the cross. My own personal beliefs on this are that I would only name a plant that I personally created. With this in mind I am frantically growing several neat Nepenthes hybrids that I crossed. I have names already picked out, and to my knowledge the cross has not been made before. I also have selected out the showiest. Now if the blessed things would only grow faster so that I can properly describe them. At three years old they are all about 8-10" across and have yet to go into vine. Not much to describe. Anyway, if Randall wants te get in touch with me on the Sarracenia hybrid to swap notes, great! I look forward to it. Good growing Andrew ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:29:26 EST Subject: Re: CP Barry, Knateater is my neatest plant Through Tampa Bay Carnivorous Plant Club we have an association with Mike Rink a CP supplier, who works off of tissue culture. I have made 2 plants off of the mother plant, gave one away at our meeting. Want to talk to Mike, and give him one of my plants for this tissue culture. Besides being a neat CP, it grows 24 inches across, is very durable, and grows in plain dirt. The hood has the parrot picture color look, the tube of a rubra/gulfensis, the tubes also grow 10 inches high. Jan if your reading, if knateater isn't workable what about Knateater2. ################### From: bergrd@valunet.com (Richard Berg) Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 03:07:46 GMT Subject: CP's, Peter Pauls, New Plants... Greetings again list... Well it's been about a month or so since I last asked the question reguarding a choice selection for a second plant. I recieved a ton of replies on what everyone thought was a good plant to grow since I've had such good success with my Dionaea's... I wanted to report back to the list that I recently purchased some plants from Peter Pauls in New York... Everything came well packed and in great shape except for a small D. Capenes which is on it's way to a comeback... All in all everything was according to my order and really the only thing bad about the whole experience was the shipping of the plants... I had called a few days after using their online server and talked with a gentleman that said they won't ship the plants to early in the warmer spring to ensure viable plants... I agreed to this and figuring they wouldn't be here to late March early April I happily read up on the species I would be getting soon... To my amazement one Saturday they came... I had asked for the package to be shipped late week so I could be here to recieve it but it seems they decided to ship the package anyhow... Luckily my wife was home to accept so the plants didn't have to sit the day outside in the cold weather (Ohio)... It's now been one week since delivery and the plants are now showing signs of adjusting to the new enviroment and have started sending up new leaves... The plants I recieved were: D. capenes (2) butterwort (3 unknowns) S. flava S. purpurea S. psittacina D. californica (2)=20 This leads me to my next question.. These being my new plants I've never grown any of the Darlingtonia's or Sarracernia's before and wanted to know if I should do anything special?... The Darlingtonia's are starting to send up new leaves (aren't those new fangs cute, all bright green and all!), and the Sarracenia's are also starting to poke new leaves up through the soil... I've used a stress agent (Hormex) to help with the transition and I think this stuff is sooo GREAT!.. I swear I could root a 200 year old log with this stuff!... All plants (except D. californica's) are inside large terrarium and stay a near constant 80-90 degrees with 80-100% humidity at all times.. I haven't checked the exact # of footcandles but I have two 4 foot shoplights on top which makes the neighbors think I'm growing pot.. (I'm sure the DEA is on it's way here now!)... Well this is long and I don't want to bore anyone.. Just looking for helpful hints on the new arrivals and how to care once they've started to regain their vigor! Kudo's to everyone on the list since this is now the only list I subscribe to anymore because the rest just aren't worth it anymore! Tilll next time.............. ... Richard ---------------------- Richard Berg Salem, Ohio ---------------------- ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 21:21:39 -0800 Subject: Patricia Kite's book Patricia just sent me the following: INSECT-EATING PLANTS by L. Patricia Kite is now available. Basic book with 25 excellent color photographs. ISBN 1-56294-562-9 from Millbrook Press and available via Amazon.com or by order from bookstores. Dedicated to ICPS cofounder Joe Mazrimas. Excellent for juveniles or starters to CPs. -- Rick Walker ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Fri, 06 Mar 1998 22:24:53 -0800 Subject: I'm back Hi everyone, after several months unplanned absence, I'm back on the net. Any customers still waiting for orders from Cambrian Carnivores, please contact me and tell me what I still owe you - I'm afraid I lost my order book and address book when the computer crashed, though I've managed to rescue some of it I think (most I hope...), so I've been unable to contact everyone individually. I am awfully sorry about the delay - I'll get the backlog sorted out ASAP. Happy growing, Peter ps: please reply to me personally - I'm running 4 months behind on following the CP list, so I probably won't see any postings here. +++ Peter Cole, 17 Wimmerfield Cr.,Killay,SWANSEA SA27BU,WALES,UK +++ mailto:carnivor@flytrap.demon.co.uk - http://www.flytrap.demon.co.uk/ ++++ Carnivorous Plants, seeds and tissue culture kits for sale ++++ ################### From: dave evans Date: Sat, 07 Mar 98 04:00 EST Subject: Re: CP Of Australia Vol 1 Hi Derek, > > Now, how can I > > obtain the information in this book at a reasonble price? I'll gladly > > pay for the royality on a decent copy, but why would a collectors' fee > > be imposed on *used* copies? Does Allen sell photostatic copies? > > Ah, these are probably rhetorical questions, but let me answer them > anyway. It's called "Supply and demand." If you're willing to only pay > cover price, and I'm willing to pay $150, guess who the owner of the > book is going to sell it to? :) Er, I really don't care about owning the book, I just want to learn the info in it. Like what these species look like, ect. Is the only way to get this information by reading the book, CP's of Australia Vol 1? Can someone please point me in the direction of this knowledge? Thank-you, Dave Evans ################### From: "angela nichols" Date: Sat, 07 Mar 98 10:53:44 PST Subject: new member revisted I have been unable to send messages to the listserve since my introductory message so this is another attempt. Questions: Does the blooming rosette of Brochiana reducta die like other bromeliads? My guess is that it probably does and I should cut it off eventually so the multitude (10) of pups have room to grow. Andrew, any comments? Does anyone growing Helias find H. nutans harder to grow than the other species and hybrids? Thanks. Angie ################### From: "Stefan Ploszak" Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 08:13:27 PST Subject: Re: Nep growers in FL Hi Trent, >Trent here in FL. The Nep growers who has been making these hybrids >since the early 1980's, mainly Bruce Bednar and Clyde Bramblett, >named their hybrids using the methods of their predecessors, people >like James Taplin and Veitch Nurseries. As far as they knew, their >was no registration authority, and in fact, had been told >to register their hybrids by publishing the parents and resultant >cultivar groups in the CPN. I'll comment on this since you've quoted my letter. I believe that Bruce and Clyde have not formally established their clones because, like many of us, they are unfamiliar with the ICNCP (you've mentioned this and they are certainly in good company). However, ignorance is not a defense, as they have many hybrids with informal names on their pricelists and these plants(with their informal names) continue to circulate. Heck, I even grow one of them. >Please check your back issues from the late 1980's and early 1990's >to verify this fact. I am familiar with the CPNs of the late '80s and there is a Nep cultivar named by a person that you probably know. Cliff Dodd, also of FL, formally named a Nep('Ron Determann') in an '89 issue. Did Bruce and Clyde use the same format that Cliff used in the mentioned CPN? Anyway, I wanted to make the point that a similar situation is being created with Dionaea. There are now several variants being cultivated worldwide and only the 'Royal Red' and 'Aki Ryu' are named as cultivars. Where did these other variants come from? Someone should formally name these variants, as the creators haven't. In the next couple of years there will be dozens of variant progeny from these original Dionaea variants and the original clones could be lost. >I am currently photographing, in detail, specific cultivars and >examples from cultivar groups, of these many hybrids. They will be >re-named to ICNCP standards, and appropriately described once the >proper format is fully understood. Good to hear. I didn't mean to offend any of the FL people with my comments, I just wanted to make a point. Best wishes, Stefan ################### From: "Carles Cardona" Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 06:19:23 +0100 Subject: lime Hello all, I'm new in this list and I'd like to know more about CP, so I want to ask you some questions: I live in Mallorca (in the middle of the west Mediterranian sea) and this island is all with lime soil (whith a lot of CaCO3). Because all CP I know are fron acid soils, Iwant to know which plant you recomend me to plant here??. Because I want to plant some CP in the Botanical Garden (Jard\355 Botanic de Soller). Thank you for any help you could give me. Carles ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 14:38:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: list update Hi folks, The latest batch of Nepenthes cuttings have been removed from the rooting chamber and are doing well. I am now trying to figure out what to cut next. I hope to be able to figure out how to permanantly adjust my list so that I can send it out with the new ones on, plus a few deletions. I am also in the process of dividing and pruning my Sarracenia. I have nearly every thing as far as naturally occuring species/forms there of. Not a lot of hybrids though...yet. If you are interested in the newest Nepenthes I have, send me an e-mail and I will send you the newest list, even if I have to re-type the thing every time manually. Thanks for your interest Andrew Marshall ################### From: jws Date: Sat, 07 Mar 1998 20:50:39 -0500 Subject: Experiments in Plant Tissue Culture, 2nd edition This book, purchased in a used book store in Amsterdam last month, arrived in the mail today. Authored by John H. Dodds and Lorrin W. Roberts, this 232 page book was published by Cambridge Univ. Press (1985). My copy, virtually unused, cost about $40 with postage to the U.S. This book contains everything you need to know in 18 chapters, with media formulation info and a list of commercial sources of supplies. There are excellent bibliographies after each chapter. This superb book is a mandatory addition to the library of anyone interested in this topic. ISBN 0-521-30478-4 (hardbound), 0-521-31516-6 (paper.) Jack ################### From: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de (Oliver Gluch) Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 18:16:27 +0100 Subject: Re: P. takakii Hi Brian, you are right that Pinguicula takakii belongs to the Subgenus Isoloba. The Section is Isoloba and Subsection is Agnatiformis. To this subsection also belongs P. sharpii, P. pumila and P. lilacina. Best wishes, Oliver ------------------------------- Oliver Gluch Lindenallee 44 26122 Oldenburg Germany phone/fax: +49-441-72618 eMail: Oliver.Gluch@t-online.de ------------------------------- > Hi > Can anyone please tell me the Section that Pinguicula takakii belongs too? > I believe it is in Subgenus Isoloba but need to know the section. > Thanks in advance! > > Best regards, > Brian D Quinn > 66 Great Barrier Road, > Waiheke Island, > Auckland, New Zealand > coro63@ihug.co.nz ################### From: yellow.window@skynet.be Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 06:59:43 +0100 (MET) Subject: Join a Market Research panel Dear Madam, Dear Sir, A panel of executives across all regions and sectors, who have an Internet E-mail address, and access to the World Wide Web is being recruited at the moment. Subjects for which this panel will be used are mainly related to the World Wide Web like giving opinions on web sites being designed or on B-to-B services being developed for this new medium. If you are interested in joining and you are an executive in a private company or a public organisation, please fill in the form on the following web address (where you will also find additional information) : http://www.yellowwindow.be, or you can just send this message back with OK in subject and we will send you a short questionnaire by e-mail. Market research is a legitimate business assisting the private and public sector making better decisions. Creating this panel has as a purpose to avoid sending unsolicited e-mail messages. Your address was identified as corresponding to the panel criteria and found on a publicly accessible website. If we made an error, please accept our apologies. We won't send you any messages again in future, unless you express the wish to join the panel. Best regards, Alain Denis Yellow Window ################### From: Bruce R Salmon Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:20:58 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: ARTICLE FOR CPN I have an article that I would like published in CPN. Can someone please give me the address of one of the editors as I haven't subscribed to CPN for quite a while now and my info is probably out of date. Bruce 13 Rothery Road Manurewa Auckland New Zealand ################### From: "PHILL MANN" Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:17:11 -0800 Subject: Nepenthes pollen I am looking for anyone with a N. clipeata or N. clipeata F1 hybrid female as my male plant of N. clipeata X veitchii is about to flower. Phill Mann P.O. Box 193 Harvey 6220 Western Australia philmann@altu.net.au http://webnews.altu.net.au/~philmann SPECIALISING IN NEPENTHES ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 11:29:00 -0500 Subject: RE: CP's, Peter Pauls, New Plants... Friday, March 06, 1998 10:15PM >The plants I recieved were: >S. flava >S. purpurea >S. psittacina > This leads me to my next question.. These being my new plants I've >never grown any of the Darlingtonia's or Sarracernia's before and >wanted to know if I should do anything special?... I haven't checked the exact ># of footcandles but I have two 4 foot shoplights Hi Richard, You'll want to put the pitcher plants as close to the fluorescent lights as possible since they like lot's of light. I've kept S. minor under fluorescent lights for a summer and it did fine. I've read that the tall growing Sarr are somewhat difficult under fluorescent lights because the growing tip is too far from the light source because older pitchers keep the fluor. lights away from the growing tip. This cause new growth to emerge under less light and might effect their growth. You'll need to keep an eye on the new growth to decide if they need to spend the summer outdoors in direct light. If the light is not sufficient, the new pitchers will be tall and thin looking and probably lean or fall over easily. Certainly, though, give your fluorescent set up a chance and see how things progress. Good luck, David ################### From: weyman@gemtel.com.mx Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:04:33 -0600 (CST) Subject: PLEASE STOP CP digest STOP CP DIGEST ################### From: Arauco Schifman Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:02:53 -0300 Subject: Argentinos!!! Yo quer\355a saber si hab\355a alguien que cultive plantas carn\355voras adem\341s de m\355 en Argentina. Soy del barrio de Caballito en Capital Federal, Buenos Aires. Si existe alguien por favor escr\355banme. Arauco Schifman ################### From: Eric Cumbee Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 16:01:36 -0500 Subject: 35 mm Film Containers Dear Tissue Culturers, I ran out of magenta caps for baby food jars while I was working on my science project, and since you can't run down to the store and get some more in my hometown. We found a clear plastic 35 mm film container(Fugi and Agfa). My dad experimented with it by boiling it for almost 15 minutes and it and the cap did not lose its shape. We went down to a one hour photograph shop and asked the owner to save the clear ones for me. (My dad taught him when he was in school so that probably helped), but they will probably give them to anyone just to get rid of them. The film containers are are not very large and probably not good to use for real expert tissue culturing, but they have worked really good for me. I just sealed the top with parafilm until I ran out- now I use scotch tape( I don't know how that is going to work) but I will let you know. I have been using them for about two months now and they work. We had bad flooding yesterday and school was canceled today because the dirt roads were washed away. Eric Cumbee Ben Hill County Middle School http://www.home.turbonet.com/ppm/ericnews.htm ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:25:08 -0700 Subject: Re: list update Howdy Andrew, Yes, I would be interested in what you have available this spring. I grow mostly lowland nepenthes species and am planning on adding a few more this year. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: Tim Krug Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 17:26:47 -0800 Subject: H. nutans harder to grow? I grow H. minor, nutans, tatei, ionasi, and heterodoxa and after toasting a few plants I found this order of permissable light exposure, from greatest to least: ionasi, tatei, minor, nutans, and heterodoxa. I have driven all these subspecies to solid red pitchers which I am convinced now is not desirable. The maximum coloration I want from my plants is red veining, a slight purple cast, and mostly green. All plants like 90% or better humidity. Temperature below 80 F during the day and dipping to 60 F at night. I grow all of my heliamphora in living sphagnum with a few choice bottom ingredients. Tatei likes dryer root moisture than the others. I hope this helps! Tim Krug >Does anyone growing Helias find H. nutans harder to grow than the other >species and hybrids? > >Thanks. Angie > ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 18:07:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Describing other people's "cultivars" Dear Andrew, you wrote, > I also have the s. rubra gulfensis x S. psittacina AND >an anthocyanin free form of same. They are neat clones, but not ones I >would give names to as I did not make the cross. My own personal beliefs >on this are that I would only name a plant that I personally created. Actually, if a plant has been introduced, and the originator has not shown an interest in describing the plant as a cultivar, anyone else may describe the plant as a cultivar. Obviously, to maintain friendly relations, I would suggest you contact the originator and ask for the originator's permission---and perhaps even give the person coauthor role on the paper, even if they don't do anything but proof the paper once prior to publication. Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: "Aaron J. Hicks" Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 19:30:46 -0700 (MST) Subject: Aristolochia germination Aristolochias are considered one of those "insectivorous fringe" plants, yes? :-) If not, 'scuse me. Any pointers on germination of Aristolochia elegans? -AJHicks Orchid Seedbank Project Socorro, NM ################### From: Necropsy69 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 21:35:07 EST Subject: Re: CP's, Peter Pauls, New Plants.. >These being my new plants I've >never grown any of the Darlingtonia's or Sarracernia's before and >wanted to know if I should do anything special?. What you might want to consider doing for the darlingtonias is keeping the soil very cool. You can go about doing this by either giving them cold water or keeping them in a cooler area of a greenhouse, possibly the bottom. Good luck Behrad ################### From: Earl Nishiguchi Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:44:06 -1000 Subject: VFT Dormancy I just took out my 8 VFTs from the refrigerator only to find 7 of them rotten. I put them in the refrigerator in December. Put them in damp sphaghnum moss and sealed them in zip lock bags. I did not trim the leaves..just put them in. What did I do wrong? All the plants were in one bag and only one plant survived... ################### From: Rick Walker Date: Mon, 09 Mar 1998 18:55:38 -0800 Subject: Endangered Species Petition Dear U.S. CP list members, The appended petition has been called to my attention. If you would care to sign, an easy way to do so is to open the fourth appended URL ... http://www.pirg.org/enviro/esa/petition/ Please feel free to call to the attention of others as you feel appropriate. Regards, -- Rick Walker - -------------------------------------------------------- Dear Member of Congress: We are currently faced with the greatest rate of extinction worldwide since the disappearance of dinosaurs 65 million years ago, losing up to 50,000 species a year. Since 1973, the Endangered Species Act (ESA) has halted the potential extinction of dozens of animals, including the bald eagle, the gray wolf and the California sea otter. Senator Kempthorne (R-ID) and Chafee (R-RI) are pushing forward a bill, S.1180, that protects the interests of industry at the expense of endangered species. At the same time, Rep. Miller (D-CA) has introduced a moderate bill, H.R. 2351, that strikes a balance between wildlife and landowners without sacrificing protection and recovery for endangered species. Please vote against S.1180 and support H.R. 2351. * FOR MORE INFORMATION * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * http://www.pirg.org/ - -The State Public Interest Research Groups (PIRGs) pirg@pirg.org - -general email address for inquiries http://www.pirg.org/enviro/esa/ - -The PIRG's endangered species pages, including fact sheets on Kempthorne's Extinction Bill (S.1180), Miller's Recovery Bill (H.R. 2351), and what else you can do. http://www.pirg.org/enviro/esa/petition/ - -A web-based version of this petition, and detailed instructions on how to sign an email petition. ------- End of Forwarded Message ################### From: dave evans Date: Mon, 09 Mar 98 22:45 EST Subject: Re: Re: CP's, Peter Pauls, New Plants.. > >These being my new plants I've > >never grown any of the Darlingtonia's or Sarracernia's before and > >wanted to know if I should do anything special?. > > What you might want to consider doing for the darlingtonias is keeping the > soil very cool. You can go about doing this by either giving them cold water > or keeping them in a cooler area of a greenhouse, possibly the bottom. How about right infront of an evaportive cooler? Dave E ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:40:07 Subject: Re: Aristolochia germination Dear Aaron, > Aristolochias are considered one of those "insectivorous fringe" > plants, yes? :-) If not, 'scuse me. No reason to worry, but _Aristolochia_ only traps insects for pollination. The plant releases them afterwards, and it does *not* eat them. Kind regards Jan ################### From: "Edward Read" Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2098 22:59:18 -0800 Subject: Re:ARGENTINOS Che Arauco, Hola paizano, yo vivi en Mendoza, San Juan y San Luis y no conoci a nadie que cultivaba plantas carnivoras. Como vives en Buenos Aires creo que va a tener mejor suerte que yo tuve. En Rosario, Misiones, y otras provincias en el norte debe ver algunas drosera y utricularia. Si deseas semillas de algo, yo le puedo ayudar. Buena suerte! ################### From: "Carl Strohmenger (HSC)" Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:43:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: RE: Light source for Sarrs I have seen several questions concerning fluorescent light sources for indoor growing of Sarra and other CPs. Here is an arrangement that we used for photochemistry when I was in grad school many years ago. We had a cylindrical chamber (vertical axis) with about 16 fluorescent bulbs mounted vertically in a circle. Our chamber was only about 19 inches high, since we were using a special UV bulb of that size, but if I were to put such a chamber together for growing CPs, I would use standard 2-bulb fixtures (48 inches long) mounted vertically and as close together as possible. If you use shop lights which have a reflector behind the lights (about 12 inches wide), you could have a 3 ft diameter grow space inside a circle of 10 2-bulb fixtures. Put a white cover over the top and put some fans blowing on the assembly (to dissipate heat) and you should have a very nice indoor Sarr growing chamber. Note that 10 fixtures with 2 40W bulbs each is a total of 800 W of light that eventually becomes heat and must be removed before it cooks the plants, so the fans are neccessary. If you can find these fixtures on sale at one of the discount sales houses, they can be as cheap as $15 +/-, so the lamp fixtures would cost $150 or a bit more and there would be some other costs such as power strips, some lumber or plastic for a framework, etc. You might be able to put such a grow chamber together for $400 depending on how fancy you made it. If high humidity is not important, then you could use a drip watering method using a small pump with tubing to control the flow of water. If high humidity is important, then you need to put some sort of vapor barrier (ie plastic sheet) between the lamps and the plants. This might add another $100 to the cost of the project. - Carl ################### From: ss66428 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 22:43:59 +0900 Subject: More new species from Australia To all, Just a quick note to announce that Allen Lowrie has just published two more papers on new CPs of Australia. One is on a new species of Utric from SW Western Australia. It's called U.paulineae and is similar to U.benthamii and U.dichotoma. A key and drawing are included. The second paper is a taxonomic revision of Byblis in N Australia. He reduces his recent B.liniflora subsp.occidentalis to synonymy under B.filifolia Planch. (what an unfortunately similar name to 'liniflora', huh?). Also, he publishes two new species: B.aquatica (=B.liniflora "Darwin") and B.rorida, which he had previously confused with B.lin.occ. (=B.filifolia) and which has amazingly unique and large sessile glands as well as very long glands on the sepals. In fact sepal indumentum and the relative length between anthers and filaments seem to be the most important characteristics in distinguishing between these 4 species (although there are several others like plant size, flower color, seed size, etc.). Also included is a key, 4 distribution maps, a very good table with morphological comparisons, as well as the usual fantastic Lowrie line drawings. Very interesting. The references are the following for anyone interested: Lowrie, A. 1998. A new species of Utricularia (Lentibulariaceae) from the south-west of Western Australia. Nuytsia 12(1): 37-41 Lowrie, A. & Conran, J.G. 1998. A taxonomic revision of the genus Byblis (Byblidaceae) in northern Australia. Nuytsia 12(1): 59-74 For Jan Schlauer - Latin descriptions are on pages: 38 - U.paulineae 62 - B.aquatica 70 - B.rorida The following quote may also interest you Jan: "_Byblis filifolia_ Planch. (Planchon 1848:305-306)._Type:_ North west coast of New Holland [Australia], no date, _Bynoe s.n._ in Herb.Hook.(_lecto_. here designated: K); single specimen on shared sheet, labelled "_B.filifolia_ N.W. Coast, Australia. no date, _Bynoe s.n._" in Herb.Hook. (_isolecto:_ K). Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:49:00 -0500 Subject: RE: 35 mm Film Containers Great idea, Eric, about using the clear film containers for tc. Many thanks for passing it on. David ################### From: "Mellard, David" Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 09:11:00 -0500 Subject: RE: lime >I live in Mallorca (in the middle of the west Mediterranian sea) and this >island is all with lime soil (whith a lot of CaCO3). Because all CP I know >are fron acid soils, Iwant to know which plant you recomend me to plant >here??. Because I want to plant some CP in the Botanical Garden (Jard\355 >Botanic de Soller). Hi Carles, Sarracenia purpurea grows in marl bogs which have an alkaline pH; however, I'm not certain whether or not it will tolerate soil with high Ca levels. Your best bet is to grow them in pots or dig a hole, line it with plastic and add the appropriate mix. The mix varies somewhat depending on the species. Sarracenia and many Drosera will do fine in a peat/sand mix (1:1). Good luck David ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:19:38 Subject: Re: More new species from Australia Dear Fernando, Thank you for your lucid summaries and bibliographical references of the recent papers by Lowrie. > The following quote may also interest you Jan: > > > "_Byblis filifolia_ Planch. (Planchon 1848:305-306)._Type:_ North > west coast of New Holland [Australia], no date, _Bynoe s.n._ in > Herb.Hook.(_lecto_. here designated: K); single specimen on shared > sheet, labelled "_B.filifolia_ N.W. Coast, Australia. no date, > _Bynoe s.n._" in Herb.Hook. (_isolecto:_ K). Of all the relevant types, this is the only one which I did know already (cf. the cp database; BTW, I don't think a lectotypification was necessary here, as both sheets are obviously duplicates from the same collection). How about the types of all the *new* taxa? They will doubtlessly be held at PERTH (and were probably collected in the mid-1990ies by Allen Lowrie himself). TNX again. Kind regards Jan ################### From: SCHLAUER@chemie.uni-wuerzburg.de Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:21:14 Subject: Re: Describing other people's "cultivars" Dear Andrew, Barry, et al., > >They are neat clones, but not ones I > >would give names to as I did not make the cross. My own personal beliefs > >on this are that I would only name a plant that I personally created. > > Actually, if a plant has been introduced, and the originator has not shown > an interest in describing the plant as a cultivar, anyone else may > describe the plant as a cultivar. This should perhaps be explained in more detail. Art.22.6. ICNCP reads: "A new cultivar epithet is not established if its publication is against the expressed wish of its originator or his assignee, unless the originator or his assignee had knowingly distributed that cultivar without a proposed cultivar epithet." So if a nameless plant (without cultivar name) reaches you by purchase, trade or any other deliberate way of distribution from the originator (or his assignee), you are free to do with the plant what you like. If there was a cultivar name attached to the plant (even if that name was not established), any publication would at least require the originator's expressed consent. Irrespective of the author and originator, the accepted cultivar epithet is the earliest one which must be adopted for it under the Rules (Art.10.1.ICNCP). Kind regards Jan ################### From: John Walker Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:48:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: VFT Dormancy At 06:59 PM 3/9/98 -0800, you wrote: >I just took out my 8 VFTs from the refrigerator only to find 7 of them >rotten. I put them in the refrigerator in December. Put them in >damp sphaghnum moss and sealed them in zip lock bags. I did not trim >the leaves..just put them in. What did I do wrong? All the plants >were in one bag and only one plant survived... ******************************** Been there, done that. Two quick suggestions: 1) The moss that you pack the "bulbs" in should be moist not wet. Try using drier moss. 2) Dust the "bulbs" with a fungicide before storage. I use Benomyle (sp?) with good results. This fungicide can be purchased from Peter Paul's Nursery. NOTE: this is the only product I buy from this nursery do to their purported wild collection of plants. Hope this helps, John in Phoenix ################### From: ss66428 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:57:13 +0900 Subject: African Expedition '97: the last chapter (at last!) To all, First of all my sincere apologies to everyone I haven't replied to over the past few months, especially the ones I owe seeds to. I've been really maddeningly busy and disorganized, but hope to get my correspondence back on track again this month. Thanks for the patience! Anyways, here it is, at last, the final chapter that was missing from the account of my African expedition last year. I'd last written in December, I believe, about the CPs in the Cape Town area. Because of the many modifications made since then, I will include this part as well. If any of you ]want the unabridged and uncensored account of the trip, please write to me personally and ask for a copy. Hope you all enjoy and sorry for any repetitions..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ .......... Eric did a great job of helping me forget the robbery in Jo'burg by showing me the most fantastic scenery and Drosera in the world! It started when we 1st arrived at his house. I spent a long time drooling over his fantastic CP collection. Amazing!!! I saw D.cistiflora in flower for the 1st time there. I'd long desired to see its beautiful flowers, a most awaited moment, but only a taste of what we would see later in the wild. I'd also never seen many of the other S.African species he had in his collection as well as so many mature, flowering Heliamphora. Another first for me, a total knockout, was his giant and fully mature 17-year-old N.rajah!!! I didn't even know there were any of that size in cultivation! I was surprised at how the sandstone highlands of S.Africa reminded me of Brazil. There was even the Coca-Cola-colored water, resulting from excess tannic acid. I saw tons of Drosera in the CT area, but can't understand why there weren't tons of Utrics and Genlisea as well. The only one I saw was U.bisquamata, although I later saw more in the Jo'burg/Pretoria area. I was also surprised to see how the fynbos (local vegetation which is supposedly unique and which botanists around the world rave about) are similar to the campo rupestre vegetation back in Brazil. The species may be different, but the general low, bushy aspect is very similar. The geology is apparently identical: sandstone highlands with lots of seepages and streams tainted reddish-black with tannic acid plus plenty of sandy soil (often black with ashes from previous year's fires). Even the climate is very similar, with slightly longer winters, and most important of all, the fact that winter is the rainy season and summer is the dry (opposite in Brazil). I told Eric that the solution to his problems in cultivating D.graminifolia were simple. All he had to do was plant them out on Table Mt.!! Funny enough, the lowland CP habitats I saw in the CT area, occupied mostly by D.cistiflora, D.pauciflora, D.zeyheri, and D.trinervia, members of sect.Ptycnostygma (which were also present on the highlands) were very similar to the habitats I remembered from Western Australia! These species die down during the summer dry season and then grow back from roots when the rains begin in the winter, similarly to the tuberous species of W.A. But unlike the latter, these species of sect.Ptycnostygma do not seem to have a very good biological clock and only grow back when the rains arrive (unlike the tuberous species, which I've noticed will begin sprouting back from dormancy at the right time even if you haven't watered its pot). In fact the habitats occupied by these sect.Ptycnostygma species in the highlands are apparently those which dry out faster, in comparison to the habitats occupied by other local species of Drosera. It reminds me a bit of the D.hirtella and D.colombiana-complex species back in Brazil, which are also found in drier habitats and often go dormant in the dry season. The first place Eric took me to see CPs in situ was at the Silvermine Nature Reserve, followed by Red Hill near Simonstown on the same day. We saw D.cuneifolia, D.glabripes, D.hilaris, D.ramentacea, D.aliciae, D.zeyheri, D.admirabilis(?), D.cistiflora, and D.trinervia. Nine Drosera species in only a few hours!! Fascinating plants!! Especially D.cistiflora and D.pauciflora. I couldn't get over all their giant flowers up to 7cm across! And what amazingly beautiful colors too!!! They varied from white to purple to red to pink to light-yellow. My favorite were the deep red D.cistiflora. What a blast! In fact one day I noticed that the D.cistiflora still had their flowers open late in the afternoon, around 4 or 5pm! I wonder if this is common for these and related sect.Ptycnostygma species. I also noticed that D.pauciflora has large tentacles on the tips of its leaves like D.burmannii and that these likewise close rather quickly when stimulated. Among the many beautiful mountain passes I went through, I think my favorite was Baines Kloof. Fantastic views, and tons of CPs. This is the famous location of D.regia, the only know site for this large species. I had rented a car and gone there alone, following directions given by Eric. I hiked all around the valley, saw numerous CPs (including D.capensis "narrow leaf" which doesn't seem to nearly as weedy in the wild as it is in cultivation!!), but not D.regia. Later on, comparing notes with Eric, I discovered that I'd trampled right through the D.regia site and not seen them. I'd been looking for long leaves in an open habitat, but found out from Eric that they actually grew in thick grasses and that the leaves were still not too long because the plants had just recently broken out of dormancy. Oh well, next time...... Another very interesting place I went was Hermanus, a bit further south along the coast from CT. This is a famous whale-watching spot, but unfortunately there were no whales on the day I went. Yet the CPs I saw compensated rather well for the abscence of whales. Again I was alone and following Eric's instructions and maps on how to find the CP sites (which no matter how detailed, are always something very difficult to pass on to someone else). I fortunately had no problems on that day and found all the CPs I expected to see plus more. There were lots of D.cistiflora with white to light-pink flowers spread all around, as well as white-flowered D.trinervia. Another very common species was the beautiful D.glabripes, which has reddish spoon-shaped leaves on stems around 10-15cm high, reminding me somewhat of D.chrysolepis back home. I even found two rare specimens of a hybrid discovered by Eric between D.glabripes and any one of the rosetted species growing in that area, we're not sure which. It had leaves very similar to those of D.glabripes, but no stem. Probably the most amazing CP in the Hermanus area, in my opinion, was D.slackii. According to Eric, these were not so large at that time of year, but the color of the plants was all that caught my attention. They were entirely colored in a beautiful deep pink-red! Even the stipules were pink. The shape of the leaves in this species are really unique as is the presence of the numerous thick dark-red hairs on the backside of the leaves. I also found what Eric says are D.curviscapa and D.esterhuysenae, both considered synonymous with D.aliciae by Jan Schlauer in his CP Database. I don't know if the names are correctly applied here, so it would be better for me to describe what I saw. First of all there was D.aliciae, with reddish- green compact rosettes, leaves pressed flat on the ground, and growing in wet to humid areas in the semi-shade of grasses. Then there was D.curviscapa(?) growing in drier sandy soil, often semi-shaded by other plants, with larger green semi-erect leaves. D.esterhuysenae(?) also grew in drier sandy soil, but under full sunlight. The leaves were an orange-green color, flat on the ground, and they had huge tentacles at the tips of the leaves. Whether good species or varieties, the three seemed to act as distinct taxa in the wild. Another plant seen at Hermanus was Roridula gorgonias. Although not considered a CP, it is nonotheless very interesting and similar to a CP. The plants were shorter than a meter, since fires had killed the larger ones a few years back, according to Eric. But there were lots of them and it was fantastic to observe those bugs which live on the Roridula leaves, crawling around unimpeded by the sticky hairs and feeding on the insects captured by the plant. At Eric's collection I experimented placing these bugs on Drosera, Drosophyllum, and Pinguicula and found out to my surprise that they could crawl around just as easily on these structurally similar CPs, although on the former two the bugs became coated with mucilage. Unexpectedly, I also found D.sp.'floating' at Hermanus, which Eric only knew from Baines Kloof. It was growing in a very wet spot by a stream together with what later proved to be a large-flowered U.bisquamata. But this site was not flooded and the D.sp."floating" were stemless, with small rosettes flat on the soil surface. A few months later, my friend Rob Gibson from Australia passed by this site and he believed these small plants are actually the true D.admirabilis. Eric also took me to a place a few hours north from Cape Town on the Cedarberg Mts. where we saw numerous Drosera as well as blooming Roridula dentata reaching almost 2m in height and at one place growing in a very dense and large stand. The most interesting CP that day was probably D.alba, which we saw by the thousands growing in very wet spots by streams in a thin layer of mosses over bare rocks. In the dry season these areas dry up completely and D.alba survives as dormant roots. The most curious characteristic of this species though are its dimorphic leaves. The first leaves to come up form a small rosette similar to that of D.trinervia or D.aliciae, although of a deep wine-red color. Then all of a sudden the leaves begin growing erect and filiform in shape, like those of a small D.filiformis or the hybrid D.filiformis X D.intermedia. The flowers are small and white. At the Cedarberg Mts., Eric also showed me a possible new variety of D.cistiflora which he calls D.cistiflora var.'Eitz'. These plants have very short stems and the basal rosette is made up of long, semi-erect leaves similar to those of D.adelae, instead of the usual flat rosettes of shorter more D.trinervia/aliciae-like leaves. The flowers are also a unique lilac color, with darker edges than center. Nonetheless, I suspect this may all be ecological. It's very similar to the local form of D.cistiflora which is also short-stemmed and was sometimes growing nearby. An indication of this possible variation was a single unique specimen we found that day. It had a small rosette with tongue-shaped leaves below younger, narrower, longer leaves. But what caught our attention the most was its flower, which was a dark pink-red, a color which Eric claimed to have never seen among S.African Drosera. I think it was possibly just one of the freaks showing how variable D.cistiflora can be, but Eric thinks it might be something new. D.zeyheri is considered by some to be no more than a stemless for of D.cistiflora. I saw this plant at two or more sites in the CT area and it appeared to me to be a valid species, claerly distinct from D.cistiflora, although it does sometimes have one to three leaves on the flower scape. After Cape Town I flew to Victoria Falls, Zimbabwe on its western border with Zambia, where I spent 2 days. I found no CPs there, but had a hell of a wild time whitewater rafting and bungi jumping. The falls themselves were not so impressive, at least for lucky people like me who have been to Iguazu Falls. From Vic Falls I crossed Zimbabwe from west to east on the so called 'chicken busses' (an adventure in itself - including the unforgetable experience of tasting a local delicacy: GIANT FRIED STINK BUGS!! AAARGH!!!). The busses stop at every single village along the way and it took me a day and a half to reach my next destination: the Chimanimani Mountains on the border with Mozambique. Unfortunately time was short and I only had two days to hike around Chimanimani, although this proved to be enough for the sad reason that there simply were very few CPs. I was expecting to find several of the interesting tropical African Drosera, Utrics, and Genlisea, but was only able to turn up *2* CP species: D.natalensis and D.burkeana. The 1st CP site found had large beautiful specimens of D.natalensis and D.burkeana in flower, growing in a grassy seepage. D.burkeana was a very deep wine-red color, with spoon-shaped leaves (lamina cuneate) in a flat, loose rosette and the flowers were a pure white. I've cultivated plants labelled as D.burkeana several times in the past, but they all turned out to be D.spatulata or D.aliciae forms. I've never even seen the true D.burkeana in cultivation, which is a pitty since it's really a lovely species, and possibly easy to grow too. Too bad that was the only D.burkeana site I found at Chimanimani. D.natalensis had semi-erect, less reddish, wider, triangular leaves with lamina indistinct from the petioles. Its flowers were pink-lilac. It took me a while to identify it because of its similarity to D.dielsiana, both being distinguished only by floral details and seed shape. Leaf shape is supposedly very variable in D.natalensis, and truly the ones I cultivated many years ago collected near Pietermaritzburg (Natal Province, S.Africa) had a very different leaf shape in comparison to the ones native to Chimanimani. I found several D.natalensis sites at Chimanimani, including at the top of Mt.Binga (the highest point in the park: 2347m), mostly flowerless, so I can not guarantee they were all this species. Maybe D.dielsiana was also present. It was great to find these two Drosera, which I hadn't seen yet on that trip, nor had I ever seen true D.burkeana alive, so I was really very happy. Plus the views and the hiking were excellent. Nonetheless, Chimanimani was still terribly disappointing, considering the CP potential of those mountains (with tons of CP-friendly habitats), plus all the distance I'd travelled to get there (and all the associated hardships), the incredible amount I hiked in those 2 days searching for CPs, the expectation I'd built up in relation to the cool CPs which possibly grew there, as well as the fatal risk of hiking in an area which was seeded with land mines during the Mozambican civil war and where hikers are recommended NOT to stray far from the trails (something I have a hard time with!), After Chimanimani, I worked my way back back down to South Africa and spent a few days doing safari at the amazing Kruger National Park, as well as seeing some beautiful scenic highlights in the vicinity. I saw many seemingly good CP sites around a place called God's Window (where Thomas Carow - Hi Thomas! - has found CPs in the past), but unfortunately (and frustratingly) could not get off the tour van to explore. I spent my last week in Africa with Dot, Marc, and Jacques Cappaert, friends of Eric Green's who live in the Jo'burg/Pretoria area and run the South African Carnivorous Plant Society. We spent lots of time discussing cultivation both in theory and in practice. As Dot said, I "went back to basics", digging into my memory from 12 years of experience in CP cultivation, showing them how to multiply several different types of CPs and handing out all the tips and suggestions possible. It was actually fun to once again repot plants, divide VFT bulbs, collect seeds, pollinate the small flowers of some Drosera and Utricularia, prepare soil mixes, and to have my hands (as well as under my nails) covered with peat, vermiculite, sand, and all those weird ingredients used in CP soils. I hadn't done any of that in over a year! I also helped identify some of their plants, many of which had been grown from seeds and were those commonly misidentified species, with wrong names but nonetheless traded by CPers around the world. Another thing I was especially glad to show them, was how to find CPs in the wild! We went on a walk up the Magaliesberg Mts., but it was too dry at that particular spot. The unknown rosetted Drosera which they'd seen there a few months earlier during the wet season (the first and only wild CPs ever seen by Dot and Marc) were no longer there. So I decided to teach them the easier way to find CP sites in the wild: get the location data from herbaria! So then Marc and I spent a morning at the Pretoria herbarium, looking quickly at thousands of sheets with Drosera, Utricularia, and Genlisea. We wrote down a few locations which were in the Pretoria/Jo'burg area (as well as a few farther away) and headed out after lunch. I never thought we'd get lucky already that afternoon nor that we'd find so many interesting CPs! Driving along a road next to which some Utrics had been found, my CP radar (well-tuned after 7 years of intensive CPing in the Brazilian outback) gave a loud BEEP when we passed by a disturbed area consisting of sandy soil with a large pool of water surrounded by short grasses. We passed under a barbed wire fence and sure enough we stumbled upon thousands of D.burkeana forming a beautiful wine-red ring around the large muddy puddle, growing thickly and healthily! They were in flower too! On the contrary to the pure white flowers I'd seen at Chimanimani, these plants near Pretoria had nice pink-lilac flowers, the same color as in most Brazilian species. Among the D.burkeana there was also plenty of U.firmula. This species has numerous small flowers on scapes up to around 20cm high. The color of the flowers were very striking, I had never seen anything like them. They were a dark grey-purple, nearly black, with orange-yellow at the base of the lower lip. In a small area we also found a small form of what I believe was U.bisquamata with yellow flowers and scapes only up to about 10cm high. Driving on, we went in search of another site where G.hispidula had been collected. On the way, we coincidentally bumped into the nice lady who had taken us up the Magaliesberg Mts. and who had accompanied us to the herbarium. She helped us locate the second site, taking us to the approximate place along another road. We climbed under another barbed wire fence and my CP radar started beeping loudly at a small stream nearby. As soon as we got there, I saw them: D.MADAGASCARIENSIS!!! They formed a dense mat alongside the stream, growing mostly among grasses, in some places on bare rocks covered with a thin film of water, and sometimes the rosettes were bobbing on the surface of the slow-flowing water. I'd been sure I would see this plant in Zimbabwe and felt terribly frustrated for not having found it, thinking I would leave Africa without this pleasure. Well, there it was, although quite different than the ones I'd seen in cultivation, which were straggly plants with short reddish leaves and round lamina distributed on long stems. I'd noticed at the herbarium earlier that day that this was a variable species and that there are at least two forms. The form described above seems to be the most widespread in Africa, whilst the form common in S.Africa seems to be what was once named D.madagascariensis var.major. These plants have short thick stems, large green leaves, longer obovate lamina, and wide petioles often canaliculated on the underside. A few had flower scapes, but it was already too late in the day and none of the pink-lilac flowers were open. I had also been frustrated at not finding any Genlisea in Zimbabwe, but alongside the D.madagascariensis I finally saw G.hispidula with pink flowers, my first Genlisea in Africa. Although it's a common and widespread specie (including in cultivation) I was still glad to see it. Around that stream we also found U.firmula and a small patch of U.livida. The flowers of the latter were cream in color, almost white, very similar in shape to the lilac form I'd cultivated years before, but differed in that it produced seeds, while the commonly cultivated form does not. Marc and I did quite a lot of CP hunting over the next few days, driving as far away as Thabazimbi, which is about 200km north of Jo'burg. On the Magaliesberg Mts. we found a small seepage at the source of a stream with D.madagascariensis and G.hispidula, the same in appearance as the 1st ones we saw. One day we were joined by a biologist and CPer named Robert Kunitz who also lives in the Jo'burg area. I'd heard a lot about Robert and his wife Michelle (also a CPer) from Eric Green. Robert took Marc and I to a place on the Magaliesberg Mts. called Mountain Sanctuary Park, where he and Michelle had seen CPs a few years before. We hiked along two streams in this park (beautiful scenery!) and found plenty of CPs. There was D.burkena with pink flowers growing at several sunny and wet areas along the stream together with U.firmula. We also found lots of D.madagascariensis at one sunny, boggy, grassy site, again with scapes but unopened flowers, Strangely, we saw no Genlisea. Although preferring different habitats, we find one D.burkeana among the D.madagascariensis. I'd been suspecting that the widely-cultivated D.sp."Magaliesberg" and/or D.nidiformis are hybrids between D.madagascariensis var.major and D.burkena, but there were no hybrids at that site nor did we find anything like D.sp. "Mag."/D.nidiformis at the Magaliesberg Mts. One more CP was found along the streams in this park: D.collinsiae! This species, which reminds me of a D.intermedia with longer scapes, was growing in more shady places, often in tiny cracks on bare rocks or on a thin layer of mosses on vertical walls. These rock walls formed a beautiful small canyon along one of the streams, with enticing pools of cristal-clear water. It was a hot day, and I didn't resist a quick dip in that gorgeous place! Anyways, we found D.collinsiae in bloom, but the pink-lilac flowers were already almost completely closed. To wrap up my stay with the Cappaerts, Dot organized the first meeting of the ACPS, where I did a small talk with the slides I'd taken of Neps in Malaysia and of the CPs in the Cape Town region + at Eric Green's collection. It was lots of fun, although many people did not come because of a heavy thunderstorm. Very bad timing, considering it hadn't rained in weeks! And that's the end (finally!) of the account of my African (and Malaysian) adventure in 1997!!! My eternal thanks to the Cappaert and the Green families who did so much for me and without whom I wouldn't have seen a fraction of the CPs I saw. With this trip to Africa, I have now seen wild CPs on all continents, except Antarctica and, strangely enough, North America! Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Andrew Marshall Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:16:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: Brocchinea flower removal Hi Angie, I removed the flowers eventually from the Brocchinea as they didn't seem to actually flower, or die. They were VERY good for attracting scale however and spreading it. Not something I want in the greenhouse. The pups will take off once it is removed. Best wishes Andrew ################### From: Paul Burkhardt Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:38:42 -0600 (CST) Subject: curiosity of who has what Hi list, I am curious to know how many of you out there are successfully growing some of the rarer and more difficult nepenthes. In particular, N. edwardsiana, N. villosa, etc. I am not trying to procure any type of trade or buy, just interested to know as these are fabled for their difficulty and slow growth. If you could provide your growing conditions, that would be very helpful, as well as the time required for such a plant to become well established. Perhaps even an article in the CPN to persuade, or dissuade, some of the more timid growers such as myself. I am currently growing N. lowii, N. rajah, N. inermis, and N. veitchii (highland). These were obtained from Dr. Andreas Wistuba (hi) as tc plants and have been doing quite well in my opinion, however, growth is extremely slow compared to some lowlanders. Paul Burkhardt ################### From: CALIFCARN Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 15:56:07 EST Subject: Re: A few things... Greetings folks, Peter here in SUNNY California. The weather's been dry so I've been hard at work in the greenhouse, and its been a few days since I've read this chat line. Just a couple of points. Sorry Jan, didn't mean to offend you with the "religious fanatic" comment; it was meant as a joke, but my choice of metaphor was perhaps bad. And thank you Dave Evans for your nice comments about our plants, I was in a bad mood over this cultivar business when I asked if your "laziness" comments were directed to me. I was rather defensive. Trent commented on a fab Nepenthes he bought from us that I believe was called N. thorelli JAM X (X superba mixta). Yes it is a handsome devil. The original cutting came years ago from Leo Song. The JAM stands for Joe Mazrimas, and merely indicated who's plant was used in the cross. The "superba mixta" also confused me, and is probably X mixta superba, but that's what was on the tag so I just left it. I don't know if Leo did the cross originally or not. Perhaps he can fill us in. The plant has that spectacular purple undersided lid, which caught Marilee's attention, I recall, when we visited Leo. Th-th-th-th-that's all folks! Peter ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 14:12:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: Drosera capensis forms in cultivation Does anyone here happen to know who first introduced the Drosera capensis forms grown as 'narrow-leaf,' 'wide-leaf,' 'red,' and 'white' (or 'alba') into cultivation? These are not cultivar names, but rather just common horticultural terms used for the plants... Barry ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: Barry Meyers-Rice Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 16:31:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Science Project (fwd) Remember I posted to this site the plea from a school teacher who needed plants to help teach her students? Here is a note I just received from her. Great going everyone! You really came through! With Thanks Barry ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Barry, Thank you for your help with my classroom situation. I have had many responses and have already received 2 shipments of carnivorous plants. In addition, I have heard from several people who would like to exchange cp activities for the classroom. Marybeth and Leo Song are considering a partnership between Cal State Fullerton and my school. The contacts I have made due to your plea are very valuable. Yours truly, Jill Wimberly ------------------------ Dr. Barry A. Meyers-Rice Carnivorous Plant Newsletter Conservation Coeditor bazza@ucdavis.edu http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/cpn/cpn.html ################### From: ccp108@juno.com (Randall T. Palmer) Date: Tue, 10 Mar 1998 21:14:16 EST Subject: Re: CP, Knateater2 Will be bringing up the subject of Cultivar at our meeting this Wed. Will be getting directions to Mike Rinck's in Apopka, and will talk to him also. The Knateater2 is a very hearty plant besides looking neat. Tissue culter will take a year or two to get the plant into mass production. I will also be talking to Sundew about who the plant's creator is, and if we can find him I will contact him also. ################### From: "Mark T. Bachelor" Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:36:44 +1000 Subject: U.dichotoma selfing >Does anyone know if U.dichotoma will self-pollinate or is self-fertile? The way my plants set seed and spread to any sufficiently wet pot in my collection, I would say yes. Although I always have a mass of flowers and so they may be cross pollinating. All my plants are from the one orginal source so it would make no difference either way. Regards Mark T Bachelor Biology Technican Melbourne Girls Grammar School Voice: +61 (03) 9866 1676 South Yarra, Victoria, Australia Fax: +61 (O3) 9866 5768 ################### From: ss66428 Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 13:28:05 +0900 Subject: Re: More new species from Australia Jan, More info for you: U.paulineae - Typus: 22.1km north of Augusta, Western Australia, 34o 08' 11"S, 115o 06' 53"E, 7 December 1996, A.Lowrie 1655 (holo: PERTH 04680510; iso:MEL). B.aquatica - Typus: On Redcliffe Road, c.1km north of the junction with Elizabeth Valley Road, Noonamah, Northern Territory, 12o 44'S, 131o 03'E, 28 April 1995, A.Lowrie 1117 (holo: PERTH 04658906; iso:DNA, MEL). B.rorida - Typus: 200 metres south-south-east of Beverly Springs Station homestead, Kimberley, Western Australia, 16o 43' 05"S, 125o 27' 32"E, 8 February 1996, R.L.Barrett 825 (holo: PERTH 04658892; iso:DNA, MEL). Barry's CPN article on Byblis is commented as well (his fertility tests showing reproductive isolation). Best Wishes, Fernando Rivadavia Tokyo, Japan ################### From: Magnus =?iso-8859-1?Q?Thor=E9n?= Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:46:30 +0100 Subject: CP-children book I'm looking for a quotation from H. A. Rey's book: Elizabite Adventures of a Carnivorous plant. Its from 1942. I have it in Swedish but I would like to quote it in the original language. The quotation of interest is on a page with Elizabite and a mosquito (on the next page she has eaten the mosquito). In Swedish it is: Elisabit mot solen ler n=E4r hon en saftig mygga ser Can someone send the English version (of that page) to my so that I can use it in my thesis. TIA Magnus Thor=E9n Plantecology Ecology Building S-223 62 Lund Tel. +46(0)462229311 E-mail: Magnus.Thoren@planteco.lu.se ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:48:29 +0100 Subject: Re: lime Dear Carles > I live in Mallorca (in the middle of the west Mediterranian > sea) and this > island is all with lime soil (whith a lot of CaCO3). Because all CP I > know are fron acid soils, Iwant to know which plant you recomend me to > plant here??. Because I want to plant some CP in the Botanical Garden > (Jard\355 Botanic de Soller). > > I know S. purpurea ssp purpurea grows in alkaline marl bogs. They stay smaller and become redder than plants grown in acid soil. Perhaps you can also grow Drosophyllum lusitanicum. It prefers a well drained and dryer soil, but I don't know if it can be grow in alkaline soil. Does anyone on this list know ? Kind regards Wim ################### From: Wim Leys Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 14:29:33 +0100 Subject: Re: VFT Dormancy Dear Earl > I just took out my 8 VFTs from the refrigerator only to find 7 of them > rotten. I put them in the refrigerator in December. Put them in > damp sphaghnum moss and sealed them in zip lock bags. I did not trim > the leaves..just put them in. What did I do wrong? All the plants > were in one bag and only one plant survived... > I have stored VFT's in my refrigerator during two years. The VFT's were taken out of the soil, rinsed, cleaned up and put together with some damp Sphagnum in a plastic box, that was placed in the refrigerator. The first year I checked the plants about twice a month and poured out water that collected at the bottom. I didn't loose a single plant that year. The next year I treated the VFT's in exactly the same way. But this time I was confident that all would be OK. So I didn't look at them until the next spring. I had about the same loss rate as you reported : 1 survivor on 8 or 10 plants. I think that by checking them regularly, they received fresh air, water that collected at the bottom was poured away, ...all those things prevented the rotting of the plants. I stopped using this refrigerator method, I just leave them in their pots. VFT's can withstand frost, even for a prolonged period (my outdoor grown VFT's were solid frozen for over a month last year). New growth starts earlier, and the plants look better than those coming from the refrigerator. I think the refrigerator method should only be applied - if you live in a tropical area where the high temperatures would prevent the plants from going into a dormancy period or - if you really don't have the place to store your plants during winter. When I look at your e-mail address , the first reason will probably be applicable to you. I would suggest using a box, not a plastic bag, that is big enough to store the plants comfortably. Check the plants regularly, that way you can act at the beginning of a problem and the plants will receive some fresh air. Also pour out water, as rot was possibly due to the presence of stagnant water. Hope this helps. Kind regards Wim ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 11 Mar 98 17:37 EST Subject: N. ven/burkei re-fried Hello List, I recently asked what the differences between N. ventricosa and N. burkei are. It seems that _N.burkei_ has a funnel-shaped upper pitcher while _V.ventricosa_ have hourglass-shaped upper pitchers. Yesterday, I received an Orchids Limited catalog and on page 59 there is a color photo of what is labelled N.burkei clearly showing hourglass- shaped pitchers. Does anyone who has seen a "real" N.burkei also have this catalog? Or if you don't have the cat., but know what N.burkei looks like, I'd like to send this photo to you for comment. The N.burkei in this photo looks just like all the N.burkei and N.ventricosa that I have seen (it's either that or all the plants I have seen labled N.ventricosa are really mislabled N.burkei). I still don't know what the differing feature seperating these species is/are yet. Please be patience with me on this confusing subject. Thanks, Dave Evans ################### From: Phil Wilson Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 23:13:08 +0000 Subject: Re: lime In message <19980307214724.AAA28507@default>, Carles Cardona writes > Hello all, I'm new in this list and I'd like to know more about > CP, so I >want to ask you some questions: > I live in Mallorca (in the middle of the west Mediterranian sea) > and >this island is all with lime soil (whith a lot of CaCO3). Because all >CP I know are fron acid soils, Iwant to know which plant you recomend >me to plant here??. Because I want to plant some CP in the Botanical >Garden (Jard\355 Botanic de Soller). > Thank you for any help you could give me. > > > > > Carles Almost any of the Mexican Pinguicula species will grow very well on limestone as long as you are careful about where you position them. THey need to be out of all direct sunlight. In Mexico they are invariably found on the cooler north facing cliffs. You also need to be sure the plants get plenty of water. A good soaking at least once per day will probably suffice. In the winter give no water at all. Hope this helps. -- Phil Wilson ################### From: Richard Brown Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:46:45 -0500 Subject: Re: N. vent./burkei refried Hi Dave, Trent here in Fl. I have since seen other photos of N. burkei, and must admit they look exactly like ventricosa. The one plant I mentioned before was a burkei growing amongst a bunch of ventricosa, and it stood out by having more funnel shaped pitchers than its similar aged ventricosa cousins. In other words, I was not comparing a seedling burkei to a group of mature ventricosa. They were all the same age; young plants coming out of the "seedling stage". Atlanta Botanical Gardens supposedly has a real N. burkei. Anyone up there know about this? But still, I have seen greater variation amongst individual clones of N. maxima, N rafflesiana, and N. mirabilis. Like you, I would like to know what scientifically differentiates N. burkei as a species from N. ventricosa Why is it not considered a variation of N ventricosa, as N. echinostoma is a variation of N. mirabilis? Similarly, does N petiolata really exist? Every photo I've seen of it looks like a variety of N. alata. It even grows in the same place as N. alata. I'd like to know the answer to this one too. Until later, Trent Meeks Pompano Beach, Florida ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 20:03:31 -0700 Subject: Re: VFT Dormancy Greetings, I have been reading this thread on VFT dormancy with interest as I have certainly killed my fair share of plants this way. I would just like to add that in my experience it is important that your plants are acting like they are ready for dormancy before popping them in the fridge. If new leaves are still emerging then in my experience, putting them in the fridge is a very successfull way of killing them. If they are still producing new leaves in December then I just don't force dormancy on them that winter. You can get away with this for 1 or 2 winters. To induce dormancy, decrease the photoperiod and try to cool them off especially at night. Anyway, that is how it seems to go for me. Your experiences may differ. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: ricell@juno.com Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:53:16 -0700 Subject: Re: N. vent./burkei refried Greetings all, I don't have any direct personal experience, but to quote from Jebb and Cheek's Skeletal Revision of Nepenthes. "Nepenthes burkei is closely related to N. venticosa of Luzon. The present species can be distinguished by the less stongly waisted, geen-blotched purple pitchers with lid as large as mouth and with 6 or 7 pairs of nerves. In N. ventricosa the pitchers are more narrowly waisted, glossy yellowish white, with lids much smaller than the mouth and with only 3-4 pairs of longitudinal veins in the leaf-blade" These differences seem rather subtle to me - does anyone know if the ranges overlap at all? I too am confused by N. petiolata. According to Jebb and Cheek's key, the peristome ribs of N. petiolata are "prominent, higher than 1 mm, with teeth extended internally to 3 mm". This makes me think that the pictures I have seen labelled N. petiolata probably are alata. I guess while I'm at it, I'll throw in another question - namely - what are the issues regarding whether or not N. philippinensis is a species or a variation of alata? Jebb and Cheek lump it in with alata but don't give any details. Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" Boulder, CO ################### From: dave evans Date: Wed, 11 Mar 98 23:57 EST Subject: Re: Re: N. vent./burkei refried Hello Rich, Trent, Jan, > I don't have any direct personal experience, but to quote from Jebb and > Cheek's Skeletal Revision of Nepenthes. > > "Nepenthes burkei is closely related to N. venticosa of Luzon. The > present species can be distinguished by the less stongly waisted, > geen-blotched purple pitchers with lid as large as mouth and with 6 or 7 > pairs of nerves. In N. ventricosa the pitchers are more narrowly > waisted, glossy yellowish white, with lids much smaller than the mouth > and with only 3-4 pairs of longitudinal veins in the leaf-blade" > > These differences seem rather subtle to me - does anyone know if the > ranges overlap at all? Er, I haven't counted the nerves in the leaves, but I can say that I have seen these other listed differences in the same plant! Especially with regard to the lids being small or large. The lower pitchers tend to have the smaller lids. > I too am confused by N. petiolata. According to Jebb and Cheek's key, > the peristome ribs of N. petiolata are "prominent, higher than 1 mm, with > teeth extended internally to 3 mm". This makes me think that the > pictures I have seen labelled N. petiolata probably are alata. I have one! It is *not* the same species as the one I received labled as N.alata-with a doubt. Then again, my N.alata (red) is probably really N.philippinensis as it doesn't really match any photo's in the CPN labled as N.alata. The leaves on the N.petiolata have very pronounced petioles, the only other species coming close is N.truncata. It also has a hairy, tendril (the hairs are thick and dark), truncate leaves and looks rather like what I expect from an F1 hybrid between N.truncata and N.alata. Oh, this one has three very prominent nerves, I can see them from across the room as the light strikes the unfurling leaves. Which brings me to another question, Jan. I can't recall the issue or Vol. (It is the same issue you mention N.splendiana and several other names you're unsure of.), but there is an article about John DeKennel (sp?) and Long Wood Gardens. In the article there are photos showing N. truncata, N.villosa, N.truncata * N.alata, and some others. However, I do not see any N.truncata in the supposed hybrid and it looks more like all the other photos of N.alata I have seen than even my plants of N.alata! Is that really N.truncata * N.alata??? > I guess while I'm at it, I'll throw in another question - namely - what > are the issues regarding whether or not N. philippinensis is a species or > a variation of alata? Jebb and Cheek lump it in with alata but don't > give any details. Well, it figures. I can't see the difference between N.burkei and N. ventricosa, but they can. And I can see a decent difference between these last two you mention, but they don't. Boy, oh boy, taxonomy sure does seem like fun! Species are like a******s (at least these days), everyone has got one (or two). For the challenged, that last paragraph is supposed to be a joke. Taxonomically challenged, Dave Evans ################### From: Rand Nicholson Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:12:47 -0400 Subject: Re: VFT Dormancy >Greetings, > >I have been reading this thread on VFT dormancy with interest as I have >certainly killed my fair share of plants this way. > >I would just like to add that in my experience it is important that your >plants are acting like they are ready for dormancy before popping them in >the fridge. If new leaves are still emerging then in my experience, >putting them in the fridge is a very successfull way of killing them. >If they are still producing new leaves in December then I just don't >force dormancy on them that winter. You can get away with this for 1 or >2 winters. To induce dormancy, decrease the photoperiod and try to cool >them off especially at night. > >Anyway, that is how it seems to go for me. Your experiences may differ. > >Richard Ellis "ricell@juno.com" >Boulder, CO I agree. I used to store many of my CPs in the veggie crisper, but there were always losses due to rot and fungus, even when the plants were kept almost dry. Too dry and they died from dessication. My large and old clump of VFT are kept in a pot year round. In the fall watering is greatly reduced (barely moist) and the pot is put indoors on a cool (sometimes freezing) windowsill. The plants have suffered no ill effects over the years and grow and bloom very well, even after having half the pot frozen solid a few times each winter overnight. In New Brunswick, Canada, the photoperiod is naturally reduced and the winters regulate the temperatures on the windowsill, with a little help from an adjustable louvre on the storm window. Sarrs, a Ping and a Drosera are also overwintered in this manner. My 3 year old Darlingtonia is still in the experimental stage, but seems quite perky in this coming spring, with a growing point now visible and _no_ loss of leaves through dessication. By the time the windowsill becomes too warm for this cool rooted grower, I will be able to put it outside in a patio cooler-bog planter. Although, the longer you can keep these plants in dormancy the better for them when they are being taken indoors for their dormancy periods, I do not believe that many of them require as strict a dormancy period, or as cold a one to induce dormancy, as they