Dear All,
          Please find transmitted a copy of our Official Objection 
Letter that accompanied our Official Objection to Plant Variety 
Rights Application: "Royal Red", 069/93 being sought by Mr. 
Geoffrey Mansell of Gin Gin, Queensland, Australia. You 
should also find the Official Reply from the Plant Variety Rights 
Office followed by our recent response. This should then be 
accompanied by verbatim copies of further supporting evidence 
contained in Appendix A of our reply which has been acquired 
since lodgement of our Official Objection circa late May 1994. 
Copies of the above and some of the supporting evidence from 
our Official Objection made in late May is on its way to most of 
the Carnivorous Plant Societies Worldwide by Snail Mail as 
well as all those 25 or so presently involved in the Objection. If 
you would like colour photocopies of the supporting 
photographic evidence I can supply it at the going rate here in 
Australia of $4.00 (Austr.) and for this you will recieve a colour 
photocopy containing three 6 * 4 reproductions of the 
photographs held here as evidence in the case (There are 18 so 
far if you want to request them all). One International reply 
Coupon ought to cover the cost of an A4 envelope and postage 
to anywhere in the world. Copies of the relevant E-Mail/Internet 
correspondence submitted as evidence will cost $5.50 (Austr.) 
and 3 International Reply Coupons ought to cover the postage. 
A copy of the Oostings and Roberts paper on the Ecology of 
Dionaea will cost $2.50 (Austr.) and again postage will be 
covered by 2 I.R.Cs.. 
I don't as yet know if I shall be reopening another monthly 
Electronic Mailbox out of the State Library of South Australia's 
Bizline Service for this will depend on the amount of mailflow 
generated by the following correspondence by my old 
subscription code was as some of you will remember it was:
plant@slsa.sa.gov.au
If this fails you ought to at least get through to Michael Talbot 
or Marty Williams of "Bizline" via at least one or both of the 
following codes.
plant@ferrari.slsa.sa.gov.au OR
michaelt@slsa.sa.gov.au
  
Anyway good luck and happy reading of the following 
transmissions
Yours faithfully,
Richard Davion (TilbrooKe)
TRANS.
Richard Davion (Tilbrooke)                                              
PVRFINAL
GPO Box 248
ADELAIDE  SA   5001
The 26th. of May 1994
The Registrar
Plant Variety Rights Office
Bureau of Rural Science
GPO Box 858
CANBERRA  ACT   2601
Dear Sir or Madam,
OBJECTION TO PVR LICENCE 069/93 "ROYAL RED"
Please find enclosed documentation compiled over the last 
eleven weeks in regard to our objection to Plant Variety Rights 
being granted on any of the so called "All Red Petioled" Venus 
Fly Trap (Dionaea muscipula) "varieties" within Australia and 
overseas. We hope to show through documentation supplied that 
this also includes tha plant offered for P.V.R. ratification by Mr. 
Geoffrey Mansell of Gin Gin, Queensland - P.V.R. Provisional 
Protection No. 069/93 "Royal Red" and possibly "Seedling No. 
1" that might be offered for Provisional Protection by Mr. 
Geoffrey Roberts formerly of G. & G. Carnivors, Gin Gin, 
Queensland in the near future, since he has already inquired as 
to the availability of material for comparative trials through 
your office.
Please find enclosed photocopies of most of the E-Mail/Internet 
correspondence in regard to this matter to date, photocopies of 
letters I have sent out in regard to this matter, photocopies of 
completed Statutory Declaration replies by various fellow C.P. 
enthusiasts - namely David Bond, Ken Harper, Robert Gibson 
and Mr. T.J.J. De Groot, letters of objection by Colin Clayton 
and Thomas Kane Hayes, a number of photocopies of 
International C.P. Journals and newsletters going back to 1986 
and a number of colour photocopies for comparison between the 
current varieties of Dionaea commonly being grown around the 
world and some of the "All Red Petioled" plants in other 
collections.
By the evidence enclosed we hope to show that Mr. Geoffrey 
Mansell's plants offered for Provisional Protection under the 
1987 Plant Variety Rights Act are derived from seed imported 
by a Mr. Stephen Jackson in the early 1980s. We are unable to 
narrow the time of importation down any further than 
1982/1983 since the Melbourne Quarantine Office only keeps 
records for seven years and also we have been unable to trace 
Mr. Jackson's whereabouts precisely though he is reputedly 
residing on Bathurst Island off of Darwin in the Northern 
Territory.
We presently believe that under the act Mr. Geoffrey Mansell's 
application does not  satisfy sections:
14 (a) - PREVIOUS SALE IN AUSTRALIA
Mr. Colin Clayton of "Dingley Home & Garden" has sold a 
number of "All Red Petioled" varieties for a number of years 
now and his current price list is included. Seed of a "Red Form" 
was being offered by Mr. Allen Lowrie of Western Australia as 
far back as 1990 before terminology for these varieties had 
stabilised (see included seed list supplied by Mr. Ken Harper).
14 (b) - PREVIOUS SALE OVERSEAS
Seed of various "All Red Petioled" varieties has been sold by the 
British Carnivorous Plant Society on a regular basis as far back 
as 1991 - see enclosed photocopies; although it is believed that 
seed was offered for sale soon after the 1986 article appeared in 
their spring journal, Mr. Alistair Culham is looking into this 
matter for us though not in time for this objection but further 
evidence may be included as part of an Addendum that may 
follow in a few weeks.
Plants have been sold by Mr. Peter D'Amato of "California 
Carnivors" (Mr. Colin Clayton saw these last year during his 
trip to California) and by Mr. John Pietropaulo of "Peter Pauls 
Nursery" in New York State.
16 (b) - ORIGINAL BREEDER
We do not believe that Mr. Geoffrey Mansell is the original 
breeder of his plants under Provisional Protection. I have been 
able with the help of all those people on the telephone and 
address list, (apart from Ron Dieteman and Fred Howell) to 
construct a chain of evidence flow diagram that shows a 
connection between the original import of seed made by Mr. 
Stephen Jackson in the early 1980s and the plants offered for 
P.V.R. ratification by Mr. Mansell. The flow charts also show 
that the plants derived from Mr. Ian English are, as attested in a 
number of the Statutory Declarations, phenotypically different 
and since they are derived from a chance seedling, are 
genetically different from those grown by Mr. Mansell. We have 
it on good authority from Laurence Ritter (close friend of 
Stephen Jackson within the Victorian C.P. Society) that the 
original import of seed came from America either as 
"Atrorubeus", "Atrorubus" or just "Rubeus" or "Rubus" though 
his memory has faded after more than ten years.
16 (e) - STABILITY OF CHARACTERISTICS
The particular characteristics of all of the known "All Red 
Petioled" varieties only seem to be stable if certain 
environmental and nutritional factors are met (please see 
Statutory Declaration made by Mr. T.J.J. De Groot). I have 
conducted  my own experiments on "Normal" Dionaea plants 
here in Australia and have found that high  charcoal-ratio soil 
mixes seem to induce colouration whenever it is genetically 
possible i.e. it will have no effect on true "Albino" plants. I 
believe that the charcoal is acting as a non-specific chelating 
agent and maybe acting like a sponge in "mopping-up" 
nitrite/nitrate anions in the soil mix which could be initiating 
the colour response.
16 (f) - MANNER OF BREEDING
We feel that the use of basic tissue culture techniques to 
germinate seed cannot be classed as a breeding program but is 
simply a maintenance of the gene pool to which this variety and 
others belong.
16 (j) - BREEDING PROGRAM
"Chance seedlings" of similar varieties have been documented 
from interstate and overseas and even from the wild (Thomas 
Kane Hayes - see enclosed facsimile and colour photocopies). 
This suggests that there are at least three maybe four (De Groot, 
Holland) natural allelic forms on the basic "All Red Petioled" 
theme at least one of which has been documented as occurring 
in a wild population (Thomas Kane Hayes). Evidence of a 
scientific breeding program (including F1/F2 backcrosses) is 
needed to establish whether or not Mr. Mansell has produced a 
"true" double recessive varient. Since Dionaea takes 
approximately two years under natural conditions to reach 
maturity (paper on the ecology of the venus fly trap - 
"Responses Of Venus Fly Trap (Dionaea muscipula) To Factors 
Involved in its Endemism" by Patricia R. Roberts and Henry J. 
Oosting published April 1958 in Ecological Monographs - Vol. 
28, No. 2, pp 193-217) Mr. Mansell ought to be able to show at 
least four years of a planned breeding program to establish his 
"Royal Red" variety.
20 (1) - COMMERCIAL INTERESTS
Granting of full P.V.R. (or future Plant Breeders' Rights) on Mr. 
Mansells "Royal Red" variety will affect the commercial 
interests of Mr. Colin Clayton (see included letter of objection 
from Mr. Clayton) in Victoria, Mr. Fred Howell in South 
Australia and Mr. Allen Lowrie in Western Australia. It will 
also have repercussions internationally - affecting the businesses 
of Mr. T.J.J. de Groot of "Cresco" in Holland, Mr. John 
Pietropaulo of "Peter Pauls Nursery" in New York State and Mr. 
Peter D'Amato of "California Carnivors" in America and 
possibly affect the operation of the seedbanks of many of the 
International Carnivorous Plant Societies as well as the 
Australian Societies.
26 (1) (a) (ii) - PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED VARIETIES
As is displayed by the chain of evidence flow diagrams the 
plants offered for P.V.R. ratification by Mr. Geoffrey Mansell of 
Gin Gin, Queensland can be traced back to an original import 
through the Melbourne Quarantine Office in the early 1980s. 
The variety therefore is not a new one. 
The existence of "All Red Petioled" varieties has been a matter 
of common knowledge since the publication of the British 
Carnivorous Plant Society's Journal, Spring 1986, Vol. 10 
(please see included photocopy). This was where I first learnt of 
the existence of a "Purple Flytrap" as it was called back then 
and so too did Ken Harper (see included Statutory Declaration). 
There was also a photograph published in the Victorian 
Carnivorous Plant Society Journal, Volume 7, No. 4 that came 
out in December 1990. The photograph is a "Bromide" 
reproduction of Stephen Baggs' original colour photograph, of 
his plant that he obtained from Mr. Laurence Ritter, a copy of 
which he has promised to send to me and will probably be 
included in the Addendum. The article in this journal by the late 
Eddie Piliciauskas mentions the plant in some detail and it is 
this plant along with others in Victoria that can be traced to Mr. 
Mansell and to the original import by Mr. Jackson.
We also believe that under section 35 (1) (a)  if the Registrar 
had known of the included evidence which has been 
subsequently provided, Provisional Protection would not have 
been granted to Mr. Geoffrey Mansell's 069/93 "Royal Red" 
P.V.R. application. 
Also if the application had been published in the appropiate 
forum i.e. any of the Australian Carnivorous Plant Societies' 
Journals or Bulletins, Mr. Geoffrey Mansell's application could 
have been vetted by a group of his peers and he would then have 
been informed of the pre-existence of "His" and other "All Red 
Petioled" varieties within Australia and overeseas.
We would prefer that the Registrar allow Mr. Mansell 
appropiate time to withdraw his application under section 25 (1) 
of the act in accordance with the evidence so submitted; 
otherwise we would like the Registrar to act, on the evidence 
provided, by revoking the Provisional Protection so far granted 
to Mr. Mansell, under section 35 and recommend that no 
penalty be awarded to him since we believe that Mr. Mansell 
was not in receipt of either the British or the Victorian 
Carnivorous Plant Society Journals and had no access to any of 
the Australian Societies' libraries and therefore was totally 
unaware of the pre-existence of "His" and other "All Red 
Petioled" varieties in Australia and overseas. We also do not 
wish to appear vindictive but prefer to give the benefit of the 
doubt and feel that further action would detract from the essence 
of the argument and the spirit of Carnivorous Plant Hobbiests 
and Professionals worldwide.
A photocopy of Australian Money Order No. 97521095 79 for 
the sum of $200 Australian has been included. The Money 
Order has been made out to "The Collector of Public Monies" 
and posted to the following address by Certified mail.
Plant Variety Rights Office
                          DPIE
                          GPO Box 858
                          CANBERRA  ACT   2601
Also a comprehensive telephone and address list has been 
included to help you reach a rapid conclusion to this matter. We 
trust that you will retain the confidentiality of telephone 
numbers and addresses of those involved in the objection during 
and after the course of your investigation.
Finally in summary we believe:
(1) Mr. Geoffrey Mansell is not the originator of this variety.
(2) Similar varieties occur in the wild.
(3) Similar varieties have previously been offered for sale both 
in Australia                      
    and overseas.
(4) The "All Red Petioled" varieties are not entirely stable. 
Maintenance of     
    uniform colouration is due in part to environmental factors.
I hope the enclosed evidence draws this matter to a speedy 
conclusion.
Yours faithfully,
RICHARD DAVION (TILBROOKE)
ENCS. 
PLANT VARIETY RIGHTS OFFICE
93/069/ROYAL074.HLL
Richard Davion (Tilbrooke)
GPO Box 248
ADELAIDE  SA   5001
Dear Mr Davion (Tilbrooke)
OBJECTION TO DIONAEA "ROYAL RED": APPLICATION 
NO. 93/069
The PVR Office recieved your objection under section 20 of the 
Plant Variety Rights Act 1987 ("the Act") to the grant of plant 
variety rights to Dionaea muscipula variety "Royal Red". In 
terms of the Act, I provided the applicant with a copy of the 
objection and supporting documents. A reply to your claims has 
been recieved from the applicant. In his reply, Mr Mansell states 
that you have no commercial interest which would be affected 
by the granting of rights to Mr Mansell. Under Section 20 (1) 
(a), you are eligible to make an objection if you consider that 
your commercial interests would be affected by the granting of 
rights to Mr Mansell.
Nevertheless this office is considering your claim that Dionaea 
"Royal Red" is not a new variety. To be deemed "new", a variety 
must be distinct (different) from all other varieties of common 
knowledge in existence at the time of lodging the application.
Mr Mansell states that you may have misunderstood what is 
meant by the term "all red", believing this to be a reference to a 
green plant with red traps. The photograph which appeared in 
the June issue of Plant Varieties Journal volume 7 should clear 
up any misunderstanding. In effect Mr Mansell is claiming that 
at the time of lodging the application for "Royal Red" there were 
no other fully red varieties of Dionaea of common knowledge.
If you wish to proceed with the objection you have an 
opportunity to make a further submission. 
Should this office not recieve further comment from you within 
30 days, I will proceed to make a decision on the information 
already provided by you and the applicant.
Yours sincerely
Mick Lloyd
Registrar of Plant Variety Rights
6 July 1994
Department of Primary Industries and Energy, GPO Box 858
Canberra 2601. Australia.  Telephone: 06 272 4228; Fax: 06 
272 3650
Richard Davion (Tilbrooke)                                               
ML26JLY
GPO Box 248
ADELAIDE  SA   5001
TEL.: 0011 61 [0]8 2705878
Tuesday the 26th. of July 1994
Dr. Mick Lloyd
Registrar of Plant Variety Rights
Plant Variety Rights Office
Department of Primary Industries & Energy
GPO Box 858
CANBERRA  ACT   2601
Dear Dr. Lloyd,
                Thank you for your letter dated Wednesday the 6th. of 
July. I have sent copies to all those involved in the objection as 
well as the major Carnivorous Plant Societies which includes 
the E-Mail/Internet Carnivorous Plant Discussion group.
I trust that your transmission of the supporting documents from 
our objection to Mr.  Mansell included copies of the many 
colour photocopies we submitted.
In reply I would just like begin by stating that we do wish your 
office to proceed with the objection and have included further 
submissions, from Mr. Steven Clemesha - Australian authority 
on the Genus Sarracenia, Ron Gagliardo - Co-curator of the 
Carnivorous Plant collection at Atlanta Botanical Garden, 
Georgia, U.S.A., John (Jim) Pietropaulo - proprietor of Peter 
Pauls Nurseries, Canandaigua, New York State, U.S.A. and a 
Statutory Declaration from Mr. Stephen Jackson - Department 
of Justice & Attorney-General Registration No. 5792. 
These submissions along with a comprehensive address list may 
be found in Appendix A attached to this reply.
Mr. Mansell is correct in stating that I have no commercial 
interests that would be affected by a grant of Plant Variety 
Rights to Mr. Mansell's "Royal Red" variety although I possess 
a copy of a letter sent to your office from Mr. Colin Clayton 
stating that his commercial interests would be affected by such a 
grant of rights to Mr. Mansell. I feel that my lack of commercial 
interests ought to add weight to the objection. 
I do not believe that I have misunderstood the term "All Red" 
although there has been some confusion within the Carnivorous 
Plant Community over the term "All Red" and it was for this 
reason that we decided to use the phrase "All Red Petioled" to 
distinguish the three or possibly four varieties in existence 
today. This is still not an accurate terminology and a more 
precise term has yet to be coined for these varieties.
The difficulty lies with the degree of colouration and its location 
upon plant parts; though it is quite clear that the varieties must 
have some degree of pigmentation on their petioles at all times 
before they can be classified as belonging to the "All Red 
Petioled" category. This distinction classifies these plants as 
being different from the "Normal" varieties and even the 
"Banded" form since none of the "Normal" varieties or even the 
"Banded" form have any pigmentation on their petioles under 
normal conditions (Please see previously included colour 
photocopies of the "Banded" and "Normal" forms). So clearly 
colouration whether it be on the interior or even the exterior of 
the lamina of these plants is irrelevant when determining 
whether or not new varieties fall into the "All Red Petioled" 
category.
Mr. Mansell's "Royal Red" variety does indeed fall into this 
category although it is not strictly "All Red" as is mentioned on 
page 16 and even depicted by the photograph on page 19 of the 
Plant Varieties Journal, Volume 7, No. 2, June 1994 since the 
lamina of a typical "Royal Red" plant possesses a band of 
"green" non-anthocyanin pigmented tissue around the periphery 
of the lamina at the intersection of the marginal teeth. This 
feature is similarly displayed by one of the "All Red Petioled" 
varieties being grown and offered for sale by Mr. Colin Clayton 
of Dingley Home & Garden, Victoria, Australia. The previously 
supplied evidence and  Statutory Declaration made by Mr. 
Stephen Jackson  suggests that Mr. Mansell's "Royal Red" 
variety is genetically related to and most probably derived from, 
this particular "All Red Petioled" variety being cultivated by Mr. 
Clayton and a number of Victorian Carnivorous Plant Society 
members since its introduction by Mr. Stephen Jackson from 
America in the late 1970s. This suggestion easily accounts for 
the apparent phenotypic similarity i.e. they are all derived from 
the same source.
The comparative trial designed by Dr. Charles Clarke was ill 
conceived since both the "normal" and "Royal Red" varieties 
used in the trial contain a degree of "green" and "red" 
colouration. Only a true "Albino" Dionaea plant (Please see 
colour photocopy of plant grown by Thomas Kane Hayes)  
should be used in such a comparison experiment however this 
approach still would not be stringent enough to be statistically 
acceptable. The trial should have used known Albino plants and 
the categorisation should have focused on whether the petioles 
of plants picked at random had any degree of colouration and 
the amount of colouration scored against previously determined 
standards.
We have provided photographic evidence of a chance "All Red 
Petioled" seedling from America that also possesses green 
laminal margins at the intersection of the marginal teeth as well 
as a photograph of a mature plant with similar appearance 
extracted from Hampstead, North Carolina by Mr. Thomas 
Kane Hayes. This evidence suggests that Mr. Mansell's plant is 
not unique since similar plants can and have been documented 
as occurring as chance seedlings in mass germination 
programmes and is similar to known natural varieties and in 
particular very similar to a natural variety from Hampstead, 
North Carolina. 
We ask the Question - "Is the lack of green laminal margins at 
the intersection of the marginal teeth sufficient grounds to class 
true "All Red", "All Red Petioled" varieties as varieties distinct 
from Mr. Mansell's "Royal Red" variety especially when there is 
so much doubt as to the true source of Mr. Mansell's variety?!
Mr. Mansell should be able to show photographic evidence of 
his chance "All Red Petioled" seedling as Thomas Kane Hayes 
has done. He should also be able to display photographs of his 
pollination procedure and planned breeding programme since 
page 17 of the June issue of the Plant Varieties Journal 
mentions that at least three successive self pollinations were 
used to produce this variety. By the evidence provided on the 
ecology of Dionaea by Oosting and Roberts (See Appendix A) 
we calculate that Mr. Mansell's chance seedling would have 
taken approximately two years to reach maturity in order to be, 
as he states, self pollinated. The resulting plants from these 
seeds would by our calculations take at least one year even by 
accelerated tissue culture techniques to reach maturity so that 
they in turn could be self pollinated. Mr. Mansell should 
therefore be able to show evidence, preferable photographic, of a 
breeding programme lasting at least four years. The above is of 
course compounded by the fact that Dionaea is known to display 
dichogamy since these plants possess protandrous flowers where 
the anthers produce pollen before the stigma becomes receptive. 
Therefore self-pollination is extremely difficult and outbreeding 
is the norm. One therefore has to refridgerate pollen and 
transfer it later to receptive stigmas to produce an adequate 
chance of successful pollination and seed production. It is 
therefore far easier to cross pollinate plants in the Genus 
Dionaea. If this was the case why was this important point not 
brought to the attention of readers of Volume 7 of the Plant 
Varieties Journal?  Such a pollination would easily explain the 
similarity of Mr. Mansell's variety to that of Mr. Clayton's and 
the others dispersed within Victoria.
I trust notice of our objection to Dionaea "Royal Red": 
Application No. 93/069 will be placed in the September issue of 
the Plant Varieties Journal, Volume 7, No. 3 so that members of 
the Plant community other than those  who cultivate 
Carnivorous Plant may be informed of our reasons for objecting 
to Mr. Mansells application for a grant of Plant  Variety Rights 
and will be able to request copies of our supporting documents 
and further choose whether or not to support our objection by 
tending their own submissions.
Yours sincerely,
RICHARD DAVION (TILBROOKE)
ENCS.    
                                                            STEVE CLEMESHA
                                                            LOT 6 SKINNER 
CLOSE
                                                            AVOCADO HEIGHTS
                                                            WOOLGOOLGA, NSW 
2456
                                                            20th May 1994
RE The PVR application for
   the all red forms of the 
   Venus Fly Trap (Dionaea muscipula)
   by Mr Geoff Mansell
        Dear Sir,
                  I wish to object to the application for PVR rights to 
be applied to all red forms of Venus Fly Trap.
                  This is a very variable species of plant in length of 
the leaf stalk and in the degree of pigmentation the plant 
carries. Some plants are more heavily pigmented in cooler times 
of the year than in mid summer.
                  I have seen all red variants in the collection of Mr. 
Ian English before his collection was burnt in a bushfire & I 
also have seen plants that were propagated from them in the 
collection of my friend Mr David Banks.
                  The plants Mr English had were raised from a large 
batch of seed of the species that Mr English imported from its 
native country (U.S.A.) the all red plants were simply the 
darkest plants in this batch of thousands of seedlings.
                  Seedlings of Venus fly traps I have raised from my 
own plants vary enormously & if I raise enough it is possible & 
likely such a variant would appear.
                  As the all red forms of the Venus fly trap are natural 
occuring variants & are in the possesion of people other than Mr 
Mansell the plant should not be covered by PVR as it is not a 
variant that Mr Mansell has developed. I have no knowledge of 
where he obtained his plants.
                                            Yours sincerely,
                                                 Steve Clemesha
                                                      Peter Pauls Nurseries 
                                                      Canandaigua. NY 14424  
USA
                                                      6/22/94
Dear Mr. Davion,
We have been growing the RED VENUS FlyTRap plants and 
selling them for over9 years. The plants are solid red(shade 
varies to almost black or maroon.).
These plants were discovered in plants grown from bulbs 
collected in the wild.
Respectfully,
J. Pietropaolo
ATLANTA BOTANICAL
GARDEN
June 13, 1994
Mr. Richard Davion (Tilbrooke)
GPO Box 248
ADELAIDE  SA   5001
Dear Mr. Tilbrooke,
     I am writing in response to a document passed along to me 
by Ron Determann here at the Atlanta Botanical Garden. After 
spending several years operating a carnivorous plants nursery in 
North Carolina ("Hungry Plants"), I am now at the Atlanta 
Botanical Garden co-curating the carnivorous plant collection 
with Ron.
      While your intention to challenge the Plant Variety Rights 
for the "Red" flytrap is clear and we think well justified, it was 
not clear just what you wanted us to do. I assume you may want 
to know any experiences we have had with the plant in hopes 
that it would further help your case. At this point, it may be too 
late, as it appears you have submitted your documents and we 
apologize for any inconvenience caused by a delay on our part. 
For what it's worth, here is our statement for the record:
      It is our opinion that the "All Red" form of Dionaea 
muscipula is a unique plant that has been grown in several 
countries for at least 5-10 years. While the intensity of the 
colour does vary with environmental conditions, we believe that 
there are genetics at work and that plants are therefore, 
genetically predisposed to being "All Red." We have known of 
this plant from several people here in the United States such as 
Dr. Larry Mellichamp. Jim Pietropaulo, and Peter D'Amato and 
Bill McLaughlin, among other private collectors. To the best of 
our knowledge, the plant we grow here at the Atlanta Botanical 
garden originated from field collected bulbs imported to Holland 
by Mr. T.J.J. deGroot of Cresco. It was sent back to the states 
and circulated among Botanical gardens. We believe that Plant 
Variety Rights for this plant should not be awarded to anyone, 
as it is already spread about in cultivation in many countries. 
We suggest that the best way to gain any type of exclusivity on 
the marketing of this particular plant (eg. "cornering the 
market") be accomplished by extensive mass propagation by an 
individual(s) and not by awarding any official patent rights.
I hope that this information is useful and apologize for the delay 
in responding. Please send us your e-mail address if possible. 
Also, we would be interested in a copy of your complete 
proposal to The Registrar, Plant Variety Rights Office, etc. if 
possible. Incidentally, we currently grow several different forms 
of Dionaea with varied leaf shapes and sizes. We are interested 
in obtaining information from other growers who have unusual 
forms. Many thanks in advance and good luck in your 
endeavors. Please contact us if you require more information. 
My compuserve e-mail address is : 
74002.1371@compuserve.com
Sincerely,
Ron Gagliardo
Greenhouse Assistant
I,   Stephen Noel Jackson
do solemnly and sincerely declare THAT I AM THE STEPHEN 
JACKSON PREVIOUSLY OF 478 MITCHAM ROAD 
MITCHAM, VICTORIA, MENTIONED IN THE 
"OBJECTION TO P.V.R. LICENCE 069/93, ROYAL RED", 
LODGED BY MR R.D TILBROOKE ON MAY 26, 1994.
I HAVE BEEN A COMMERCIAL GROWER OF VENUS FLY 
TRAPS SINCE 1975.
I WISH TO CONFIRM THAT I IMPORTED 
APPROXIAMATELY 250 GRAMS OF WILD COLLECTED 
VENUS FLY TRAP SEED, I BELIEVE FROM MR DONALD 
SCHNELL OF THE U.S.A. 
THIS IMPORT TOOK PLACE BETWEEN 1978 AND 1980.
100,000 SEEDS WERE GERMINATED, AND FROM THESE 
SEEDLINGS, FOUR COLOUR VARIANTS WERE NOTED, 
INCLUDING A NUMBER OF ALL RED PETIOLED/ RED 
TRAPPED PLANTS.
THE SEEDLINGS WERE GROWN ON FOR TWO YEARS 
AND PORTIONS OF THEM SOLD ON THE WHOLESALE 
MARKET UP UNTIL 1986, WHEN MY BUSINESS, AND 
REMAINING STOCK, WERE SOLD TO MR GORDON 
CHEERS OF VICTORIA. THREE "ALL RED" VENUS FLY 
TRAPS WERE ALSO DONATED TO NUNAWADING 
COUNCIL, VIC. AT THIS TIME.
I HAVE INSPECTED MR MANSELL'S "ALL RED" PLANTS 
AND FIND THEM VERY SIMILAR TO THOSE THAT 
RESULTED FROM THE SEED IMPORTED FROM MR 
DONALD SCHNELL BETWEEN 1978 AND 1980.
Signed - S. Jackson
And I make this solemn declaration conscientiously believing 
the same to be true and by virtue of the provisions of "The Oaths 
Act, 1936."
Declared and subscribed at EARLVILLE in the State of 
Queensland this day of JULY FOURTEETH 1994 before me
Signed by Commissioner of Declarations (signiture illegible)
Stamped with Commissioner for Declarations : Department of 
Justice and Attorney-General Seal & Registration No. 5792 
				    233  Centre  Dandenong  Road
				    Dingley, Vic. 3172 Australia
					      Open 7 days a week
					Telephone: (03) 551 1868
					      Fax: (03) 551 8541
				       International Prefix 61 3 21.7.94
Dear Sir,
I hereby lodge an objection to:
DIONAEA  "ROYAL RED" : APPLICATION NO. 93/069
on the grounds that it is not a new variety, but one that has been 
around for many years. This has been demonstrated to you by 
the information supplied by mr. Richard Davion (Tilbrooke).
As a commercial grower of Dionaea muscipula (Venus Fly 
Traps) for approximately 15 years, my business including 
breeding program and export trade would be severely damaged 
if this application for P.V.R. is granted.
My credentials can be checked with the following businesses 
and organisations:
      Mr. Brian Denton, Secretary, Australian Carnivorous Plant 
Society Inc.,   
      P.O. Box 391, St. Agnes, S.A. 5097
      Tel. (08) 264 5974 (AH), (08) 303 5507 (BH)
      Mr. Bernie Walker, Nursery Link, 104 Lauriston Drive, 
Coldstream, Vic, 
      3770.  Tel. 7391760
      Mr. Geoff Roberts, G. & G. Carnivores, P.O. Box 129, Gin 
Gin, Qld, 4671.
      Tel. 071 572 644
I have enclosed a cheque for $200.00 to register my objection.
                             Yours sincerely,
                              
                              Colin H. Clayton
       Claydepel Nominees Pty. Ltd. (A.C.N. 005 740769) trading 
as DINGLEY FERN MARKET
END OF TRANSMISSION