> I'll admit that it's not very clear where I stand on this issue
> from my message. My main intention was to point out the
> contradiction between trying to keep habitat coordinates "sketchy"
> while at the same time giving their locations as circles centered
> at an exact longitude and latitude. You're giving precise
> information here no matter how big you make the circles.
I tried to make it clear that the circle locations would be "snapped" to
a coarse grid. This means that if the location was 1023.25 km North of
the equator, then we would actually display the latitude as 1020 km
(snapped to a 10km grid) or 1000 km (snapped to a 100 km grid). This
builds in an uncertainty in the area equal to the square of the
grid spacing.
This means that the WEB maps do not show information centered on "exact
longitude and latitude". We do not give away precise information no
matter how small we make the circles.
Practically, this will occur automatically. In a 3"x5" GIF bitmap
of north america, any data is only accurate only to the resolution of a
bitmap pixel. Simply by limiting the zoom factor on the map generator,
it is easy to control how much information is displayed.
Practically speaking, most people would simply not want to wait for
a world map, accurate to 100 meters, to download.
> If you're going to make a location map, make a GOOD one, and an EASILY
> ACCESSIBLE one - our bookshelves are already full of sketchy,
> incomplete, barely useful ones. I, for one, would love to see this
> type of map come into existence.
I agree with you completely.
It will be quite accessible.
It will be better than anything currently available.
In time it will become comprehensive.
If experience shows that the information is not being mis-used, then we
certainly have the option of releasing the full accuracy textual database
later on. The limited resolution display is simply a compromise so that
we can go ahead without risking the plant populations. We will be able
to reassess this policy at any time.
> I also share others' concerns about conservation, and I do believe
> that providing a powerful, accurate location map is going to
> drastically increase visitation to lots and lots of CP sites, by
> both the scrupulous and the unscrupulous. My suggestion is to
> include ADDITIONAL information along with the location map which
> might help to discourage collection from the wild by everyone who
> accesses it. For example, this information could consist of:
>
> - First, a nice textual speal about how habitats are threatened,
> etc., etc. and how we all (hobbyists, scientists, nurserymen)
> are responsible for protecting them.
The WEB page already has the ICPS statement on plant collecting policy,
plus links to complete CITES documentation. Many conservation issues
are well covered in the various FAQ's. This sort of education is one
of the charter purposes of the ICPS.
ftp://users.aol.com/cbelan9630/cppub/citesesa.htm
http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cites/cites.html
> - Then, suggest that those who want their own plants, either for
> private or commercial use, have LOTS and LOTS of sources available
> that are much BETTER, EASIER and CHEAPER than collecting from the wild.
> Here, provide an additional database, AT LEAST AS ACCURATE,
> COMPLETE, EASILY-ACCESIBLE AND UP-TO-DATE AS THE LOCATION DATABASE,
> of sources for CP. This could include information such as:
>
> * Names and addresses of all known CP nurseries worldwide
> (including information about whether or not they field-collect!)
This is on both the WEB and the listserv archive. There is even an
extensive discussion of one particular nursery that is known to field
collect extensively.
http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/pp.html
http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cpsellers.txt
> * Private collectors who sell and trade their plants
The listserv (or rather I) maintain a compilation of growlists from
anyone who sends me their growlist in a standard ASCII format. We have
perhaps 20 growers already in the database, sorted by species and
availability:
http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cpgrowlist.txt
> * Seed sources
> * Sources of CP growing supplies, books, etc.
This is also on the WEB. See Ivo Koudela's bibliography, check out the
cp.sellerlist, the cp.growlist, the cp.suppliers list on Chris Frazier's
FAQ page and the listserv archives.
http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cpbooks.txt
http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cpsellers.txt
http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cpmasterlist.txt
> * All large and small-scale tissue-culture operations
> * Instructions for doing your OWN tissue culture
> * Sources of tissue-culture supplies
This is on the CP WEB. I spent several weeks of free time and considerable
expense developing the CP Tissue culture tutorial at:
http://jr/botany/public_html/cp/slideshows/tc/TC.html
> * Instructions for germinating seeds successfully
Look at the CP FAQ's, especially those maintained by Chris Frazier and
Barry Meyers-Rice
http://www.indirect.com/www/bazza/cps/faq/faq.html
http://randomaccess.unm.edu/www/cp/cparchive.html
> In other words, if you don't want the powerful location map to be
> misused for field collection, then make an EQUALLY POWERFUL "map"
> of alternative CP sources and growing information which will look
> like a more appealing way to obtain plants to those who want their
> own.
I and many other volunteers have spent *thousands* of hours work
trying to do this. Everything you've mentioned already exists in
some form - all linked to the CP WEB page. In most cases, the information
is constantly improving and getting easier to use every day.
> People are basically lazy. We're always looking for the quickest
> and easiest way to obtain the information and goods we want. So,
> if the location map becomes the easiest route, that's what we'll
> use. But if a database of alternative sources looks even quicker
> and easier, we'll use that instead. Up until now, I've always found
> it easier to find information about nurseries and collectors from
> which to get my plants, but if this amazing location map one day
> pops up on my screen, who knows ? I think the same effort should
> be expended on providing a good CP-source database as on providing
> a good location map.
A half-dozen volunteers have worked over three years getting the
CP-source database in place. (not to mention Jan's work of decades).
We're only now turning our focus towards field data.
The WEB page is not a "closed" project. I've always welcomed, and
installed contributions from anyone that wants to improve the material,
or fill in holes. It's a *group* effort.
Unfortunately, the presentation wasn't good enough for you to find these
resources yourself. Please take another look, try to identify the
weaknesses, and get back to me. I'd be happy to try to implement any
specific improvements that you might suggest.
Best regards,
-- Rick Walker