Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 23:09:51 -0500 From: "Carl Mazur" <ccp@vaxxine.com> To: cp@opus.hpl.hp.com Message-Id: <aabcdefg4162$foo@default> Subject: Re: Intro of CP, and rebuttal to Paul Burkhardt
Paul
> >
> Carl,
> Do you know (or does anyone else?) if there's a record of certain CP
> existing in NJ (or other states for that matter) a few centuries ago
> that aren't here now because of human intervention? (ie. they've been
> killed off by farmers' fertilizers, various war efforts- there was a
> vested interest in cannon ball production in the NJ Pine Barrens during
> the Revolutionary war years that may or may not have been good for CP-
> and other land development?) If so, it seems to me that such plants
> SHOULD be reintroduced. It would be fascinating for someone (I have no
> time...) to check into this possibility.
Sorry, I really don't know of any factual records, however, I've heard of
historical records of S. flava from Alabama, S. oreophila from Tennessee
and S. leucophylla in Georgia. As far as I know they all don't exist there
anymore. Can anyone confirm this?
Best Regards,
Carl J.Mazur
Cherryhill Carnivorous Plants
Grimsby, ON Canada
http://www.vaxxine.com/ccphome
> ------------------------------
>
> To Paul Burkhardt:
>
> > > I believe artificial bogs increase the likelihood of
> > > cross-contamination of natural bogs (Far more then anything grown in
my
> > > indoor greenhouse).
> >
> > Please explain to me how?
> >
> Because, neither birds, nor bees (always devoured) nor wind flow
> thru my Klima-gro and out the window. :) Sorry, Paul... I couldn't
> resist...
>
> I'll answer your real question here with your own words:
>
> > Yes, plants and seeds get distributed by wind, animals, etc. but that
is
> > not a proof that all such dispersals will be successful.
> >
> Not all... but they don't "all" need to be successful, right? Later,
> you say:
>
> > Of course, there is some possibility of
> > 'foreign' contamination, but as I've already mentioned, there probably
> > won't be enough 'biomass' of 'hybrid' offspring to out-compete the
> > indigenous plants.
> >
> You go on to say:
>
> > Haven't we been reading about the wonderful bog adventure in CA
> > where D. capensis is growing successfully along with some Sarracenia?
> >
> So, not a lot of "biomass" (seeds) is really necessary is it? In
> fact, from the very nature of d. capensis (a "weed" according to
> most...), it's pretty clear that the CA infestation could have been
> started just as easily with one plant... or one seed, regardless of how
> it actually came about.
>
> > Your
> > argument about not knowing if D. capillaris and the vft having already
> > tried to establish themselves unsuccessfully at different areas is not
> > proof that they will *not* establish themselves
> >
> And I'll ask again, can VFT survive rock solid ice soil? Can d.
> capillaris? I'm not talking about a contrived artificial bog, here- NJ
> winters can often compete with Alaskan- I remember some winters when we
> considered going to Alaska to beat the cold... :)
>
> The sundews and sarrs (purpurea) and utrics that do grow here, can
> survive these requirements.
>
> But I've also read that even before mankind did much damage to VFT,
> that it's natural habitat was severely limited to the Wilmington, NC
> area and that efforts to introduce it into similar natural bogs in the
> south have mostly failed... (or is this just propaganda?)
>
> > Unless one makes an artificial bog within yards of a natural one,
explain
> > how 'new' plants will spring up, without human intervention?
> >
> And why is it impossible for someone to do just that- build a bog
> within yards of a natural one... good point! Are you saying that nobody
> owns property within yards of a natural bog? If it can happen close, it
> can happen far. Sure the odds drop, but it only takes one success.
>
> This debate is kinda silly, don't you think? I'll stick to my
> opinions and you'll stick to yours. Let's argue politics and religion
> instead... :)
>
> Cheers,
> Paul
>
>
> --
> Paul V. McCullough
> "3D Animation World" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull
> "CP Page" http://www.voicenet.com/~pvmcull/pics/cp/carniv.htm
>
>
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